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readytotaxi
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Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:04 pm

Things appear to be really bad and getting worse with the countrys economy.
State-owned companies in South Africa, which are deep in debt, are costing the country billions to keep afloat and the bill is getting bigger.
The South African Post Office has requested $293m
the airports operator, Acsa, has applied for about $200m,
The weapons manufacturer Denel also faces bankruptcy.
SAA is bankrupt.
National electricity supplier Eskom was deep in debt before the pandemic and there are rolling power cuts in part due to outdated equipment.
South Africa has had its International credit rating cut to junk.

Is there a way forward out of this mess?
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Aaron747
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:08 pm

Sure - get rid of the ANC and have an outside international group of auditors go in and determine what can be salvaged and which criminal politicians have sufficient assets to make state restitution. That at least would make it possible to bring them out of the junk grades at some point.

Restoring education, infrastructure and other essential services following this plunder back to even 1994-quality will take a generation in the most optimistic case.
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SQ22
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:15 pm

May I kindly remind you to provide links to your sources when stating facts? Not every interested user is aware of the situation in the country you want to discuss. Thanks.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:57 pm

Even bad rule of law is better (in particular ways) than no rule of law at all.

No, without functioning institutions, SA will retreat to full third world status and famines. It is pursuing policies that have been tried before. The result we should be preparing for is violence and famine. I agree that the solution is education, not doing what "feels good" but what has been demonstrated as successful using history and facts.
 
Maloak33
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:41 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/cq23pdg ... 20pandemic.

Here is a link regarding the topic. This country has gone down the drain...I give the ANC 10 years (If not sooner) to turn my home into a new Zim. :mad: :( :banghead:

Mal.
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Sokes
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:41 am

I think it's about 25 years back that I visited South Africa and Zimbabwe for IIRC four weeks. I specially liked Zimbabwe. Though I'm white I was always treated respectful in both countries.

My impression in India, of which I assume there should be similarities:
Central bank money flooded the world. Most countries had a booming economy. But on the long run I believe in factories.
Indian shops were full of Chinese products and I always wondered how India can afford. India has some industry, but IT exports and remittances were important for the current account. Even though the current account at least till 2018 was very negative.

A credit fueled boom depends on optimism. Corona restrictions are gone now, but business is still down. Buses ply half empty. I believe many people now prioritize reducing debt. Plus the accumulated interest/ installments since March need to be paid back.

Funny:
The last years important reforms were done. I take India much more serious now than five years back. But what counts in the short term are global financial markets.

What about South Africa? Did it improve in ease of doing business? What about industries?

Never let a crisis go to waste!
Think what Roosevelt made out of the Great Depression.
Similar in 1991 the payment crisis forced India to accept sweeping reforms from the IMF.

If the bubble busts now I hope the IMF gets all support it can get.

Germany with WW2, China with Mao, sometimes countries have to sink deep to get a chance to do it right.
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Iloveboeing
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:39 am

Sokes wrote:
I think it's about 25 years back that I visited South Africa and Zimbabwe for IIRC four weeks. I specially liked Zimbabwe. Though I'm white I was always treated respectful in both countries.

My impression in India, of which I assume there should be similarities:
Central bank money flooded the world. Most countries had a booming economy. But on the long run I believe in factories.
Indian shops were full of Chinese products and I always wondered how India can afford. India has some industry, but IT exports and remittances were important for the current account. Even though the current account at least till 2018 was very negative.

A credit fueled boom depends on optimism. Corona restrictions are gone now, but business is still down. Buses ply half empty. I believe many people now prioritize reducing debt. Plus the accumulated interest/ installments since March need to be paid back.

Funny:
The last years important reforms were done. I take India much more serious now than five years back. But what counts in the short term are global financial markets.

What about South Africa? Did it improve in ease of doing business? What about industries?

Never let a crisis go to waste!
Think what Roosevelt made out of the Great Depression.
Similar in 1991 the payment crisis forced India to accept sweeping reforms from the IMF.

If the bubble busts now I hope the IMF gets all support it can get.

Germany with WW2, China with Mao, sometimes countries have to sink deep to get a chance to do it right.


In Zimbabwe? When I was in high school in the early 2000s, there was a white girl in my class who was from Zimbabwe and she said that her family got out of the country because Mugabe and his policies were making it unsafe for white people. They were seizing property and many black people were attacking white people and raping the white women. She said it was extremely dangerous. She also said that Mugabe didn't care about the people and just hoarded all the power to himself and that the South African President at the time, Thabo Mbeki, would get together with Mugabe and they'd get drunk together all the time.

She also said medical care was poor and that there were several types of poisonous snakes in the country and if you got bitten by one, they'd throw you on a plane to South Africa and you'd better pray you made it.

I said all of that because I was surprised that you said you were treated well in Zimbabwe because I've heard really bad things about that part of Africa.
 
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:19 am

My wife has a South African friend, her family were farmers, her father and the farm foreman were murdered, her mother, sister and herself were raped, they left and moved to NZ. This happened 20 years ago, it hasn’t stopped, it anything it appears to be getting worse.

SA is not the country Mandela envisioned it would become, the ANC is corrupt, cronyism is rife, SA had all the institutions to continue as a functional country but as soon as you start removing competent management and replacing them with family and friends the result is what you see today.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:25 am

Kiwirob wrote:
My wife has a South African friend, her family were farmers, her father and the farm foreman were murdered, her mother, sister and herself were raped, they left and moved to NZ. This happened 20 years ago, it hasn’t stopped, it anything it appears to be getting worse.

SA is not the country Mandela envisioned it would become, the ANC is corrupt, cronyism is rife, SA had all the institutions to continue as a functional country but as soon as you start removing competent management and replacing them with family and friends the result is what you see today.


:checkmark: :checkmark:

You can add to that siphoning away public funds with rampant patronage to key ANC officials and supporters and giving massively inflated state contracts to criminal businessmen like the Guptas.

What could possibly be left for education or social services?
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:24 am

Kiwirob wrote:
... SA had all the institutions to continue as a functional country but as soon as you start removing competent management and replacing them with family and friends the result is what you see today.


That sounds like another country I know very well.
 
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stl07
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:28 am

johnboy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
... SA had all the institutions to continue as a functional country but as soon as you start removing competent management and replacing them with family and friends the result is what you see today.


That sounds like another country I know very well.

Which is now ranked #1 in the word


for deaths!
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
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UnMAXed
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:46 am

stl07 wrote:
johnboy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
... SA had all the institutions to continue as a functional country but as soon as you start removing competent management and replacing them with family and friends the result is what you see today.


That sounds like another country I know very well.

Which is now ranked #1 in the word


for deaths!

Which one is that?
Belgium? Spain? The United Kingdom? Italy? Sweden?

COVID-19 deaths worldwide per million population as of September 4, 2020, by country
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants
 
GDB
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:01 am

A clear case of 'onepartystateitis', in the case the condition is not happening in a dictatorship but one with just a highly dominant party.
After Mandela they got self Mbeki, who decided that he was an expert on the biggest issue in SA then, AIDS, from stuff he'd read on the internet. Appointing a Health Minister who had been a former nurse sacked for stealing from those under her care. Who would turn up at events to counter AIDS with herbal remedies. She also jumped the transplant queue to cure the effects of her heavy drinking.

Followed by Zuma, educated to elementary school standards, expect it seems in the area of graft and corruption where he was top of any class.
Got away with a charge of rape, he sodomised his victim without using protection, since he believed that taking a shower afterwards would protect from AIDS.

Without the real threat of losing an election it is hard to see what sanctions ordinary South Africans can do about the massive corruption. Not without a credible opposition, it is understandable given the ANC's history, that the party most identified with the anti Apartheid movement are so dominant.
But nothing last forever, though the real test would come if the ANC, at least in least in it's current form, did face a serious challenge, would they go the way of Zimbabwe?
Or would the ANC split?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:21 am

UnMAXed wrote:
stl07 wrote:
johnboy wrote:

That sounds like another country I know very well.

Which is now ranked #1 in the word


for deaths!

Which one is that?
Belgium? Spain? The United Kingdom? Italy? Sweden?

COVID-19 deaths worldwide per million population as of September 4, 2020, by country
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants


We are supposedly the world's most developed country - it is ridiculous to even be in the middle of the per capita list. Australia? South Korea? NZ? Nowhere to be found.
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UnMAXed
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:37 am

Aaron747 wrote:
UnMAXed wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Which is now ranked #1 in the word


for deaths!

Which one is that?
Belgium? Spain? The United Kingdom? Italy? Sweden?

COVID-19 deaths worldwide per million population as of September 4, 2020, by country
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants


We are supposedly the world's most developed country - it is ridiculous to even be in the middle of the per capita list. Australia? South Korea? NZ? Nowhere to be found.

Belgium, Spain, The United Kingdom, Italy, Sweden as well as France and Switzerland who ain't far behind them in deaths are underdeveloped?
And why are used as an economic and social example for us to follow then?

Australia? South Korea? NZ?

You mean two isolated island states in the middle of nowhere?
And South Korea an ethnically homogeneous country with discipline ingrained in their culture?
 
Sokes
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:41 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
In Zimbabwe?
...
I said all of that because I was surprised that you said you were treated well in Zimbabwe because I've heard really bad things about that part of Africa.

2020-25=1995
It may also have been 94 or 96, I don't remember.

Why is this surprising? I'm not sure if Germany in 1933 was a worse place for Jews than other European countries. 1938 it was clear which wasn't a good place for Jews.

Once sadists, paranoid people and opportunists take over there is no knowing what can happen.

You may also read about the Milgram experiment.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:47 am

UnMAXed wrote:
You mean two isolated island states in the middle of nowhere?
And South Korea an ethnically homogeneous country with discipline ingrained in their culture?


They are not isolated - this is 2020, not 1850. And consider that islands with only a few cities are even more susceptible to rapid spread, and have regular visitation from Chinese tourists/businesspersons. Crazy talk.
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:49 am

Sokes wrote:
Iloveboeing wrote:
In Zimbabwe?
...
I said all of that because I was surprised that you said you were treated well in Zimbabwe because I've heard really bad things about that part of Africa.

2020-25=1995
It may also have been 94 or 96, I don't remember.

Why is this surprising? I'm not sure if Germany in 1933 was a worse place for Jews than other European countries. 1938 it was clear which wasn't a good place for Jews.

Once sadists, paranoid people and opportunists take over there is no knowing what can happen.

You may also read about the Milgram experiment.


Rather the point is that the events of 1980s Zimbabwe did not bode well for the white residents there. That seemed pretty obvious.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Sokes
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:52 am

Aaron747 wrote:
We are supposedly the world's most developed country - it is ridiculous to even be in the middle of the per capita list. Australia? South Korea? NZ? Nowhere to be found.

Health depends on money?
With rather rudimentary healthcare one can boost life expectancy close to 70s. Drinking men in Russia won't get very old even with best of healthcare, same is partly true for people overweight for many decades.
I mean one can put stents and stuff and add a few years, but belly circumference, age and related sicknesses matter.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
UnMAXed
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:14 am

Aaron747 wrote:
UnMAXed wrote:
You mean two isolated island states in the middle of nowhere?
And South Korea an ethnically homogeneous country with discipline ingrained in their culture?


They are not isolated - this is 2020, not 1850. And consider that islands with only a few cities are even more susceptible to rapid spread, and have regular visitation from Chinese tourists/businesspersons. Crazy talk.

They are isolated in the sense that they can be reached only by plane, and only by people who can afford some f the expensive international plane tickets around and therefore have much better control of who is entering and his/hers health condition.
Also they are very sparsely populated countries with people who are not culturally disinclined to social distancing.
Now compare that to US states like NJ, NY, MA, MI, IL, PA. In fact these US states make even Belgium, Spain and Sweden look good by comparison....
 
Sokes
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:20 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Rather the point is that the events of 1980s Zimbabwe did not bode well for the white residents there. That seemed pretty obvious.

You are right, the trouble must have been after 1987.
Probably psychopaths just wanted to grab the wealth. Once this was done they lost interest.
I saw a public slide show of Zimbabwe, liked it and went there. I wasn't interested in history at that time.
I was warned in South Africa not to visit Johannesburg. I didn't get such warning in Zimbabwe.
I was mostly at tourist places. Nice train ride, nice waterfall, friendly people.
I was a tourist. I don't know more.

I was robbed twice in Kenya. Once in Nairobi (I was made unconscious), once my bag in the bus was stolen. I could buy my passport back, though I suspect the guy who arranged it may have been the gang leader. I met a group of foreigners which were individual travellers who happened to meet that one night. Most of them had also been robbed. I definitely preferred Zimbabwe.
Though people themselves were also O. K.

Well, self determination....
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:43 pm

GDB wrote:
A clear case of 'onepartystateitis', in the case the condition is not happening in a dictatorship but one with just a highly dominant party.
After Mandela they got self Mbeki, who decided that he was an expert on the biggest issue in SA then, AIDS, from stuff he'd read on the internet. Appointing a Health Minister who had been a former nurse sacked for stealing from those under her care. Who would turn up at events to counter AIDS with herbal remedies. She also jumped the transplant queue to cure the effects of her heavy drinking.

Followed by Zuma, educated to elementary school standards, expect it seems in the area of graft and corruption where he was top of any class.
Got away with a charge of rape, he sodomised his victim without using protection, since he believed that taking a shower afterwards would protect from AIDS.

Without the real threat of losing an election it is hard to see what sanctions ordinary South Africans can do about the massive corruption. Not without a credible opposition, it is understandable given the ANC's history, that the party most identified with the anti Apartheid movement are so dominant.
But nothing last forever, though the real test would come if the ANC, at least in least in it's current form, did face a serious challenge, would they go the way of Zimbabwe?
Or would the ANC split?


SA is going to crash even harder than Zimbabwe, they deserve everything that comes to them. The Africans keep voting for the ANC so they’ll never succeed at anything other than continuing failure.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:41 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
GDB wrote:
A clear case of 'onepartystateitis', in the case the condition is not happening in a dictatorship but one with just a highly dominant party.
After Mandela they got self Mbeki, who decided that he was an expert on the biggest issue in SA then, AIDS, from stuff he'd read on the internet. Appointing a Health Minister who had been a former nurse sacked for stealing from those under her care. Who would turn up at events to counter AIDS with herbal remedies. She also jumped the transplant queue to cure the effects of her heavy drinking.

Followed by Zuma, educated to elementary school standards, expect it seems in the area of graft and corruption where he was top of any class.
Got away with a charge of rape, he sodomised his victim without using protection, since he believed that taking a shower afterwards would protect from AIDS.

Without the real threat of losing an election it is hard to see what sanctions ordinary South Africans can do about the massive corruption. Not without a credible opposition, it is understandable given the ANC's history, that the party most identified with the anti Apartheid movement are so dominant.
But nothing last forever, though the real test would come if the ANC, at least in least in it's current form, did face a serious challenge, would they go the way of Zimbabwe?
Or would the ANC split?


SA is going to crash even harder than Zimbabwe, they deserve everything that comes to them. The Africans keep voting for the ANC so they’ll never succeed at anything other than continuing failure.

Kinda agree, they need change but seem frighten to dip a toe in the water and see what happens. Just up the road Namibia, although not perfect, seems like a good example for them perhaps.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:58 pm

UnMAXed wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
UnMAXed wrote:
Which one is that?
Belgium? Spain? The United Kingdom? Italy? Sweden?

COVID-19 deaths worldwide per million population as of September 4, 2020, by country
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants


We are supposedly the world's most developed country - it is ridiculous to even be in the middle of the per capita list. Australia? South Korea? NZ? Nowhere to be found.

Belgium, Spain, The United Kingdom, Italy, Sweden as well as France and Switzerland who ain't far behind them in deaths are underdeveloped?
And why are used as an economic and social example for us to follow then?

Australia? South Korea? NZ?

You mean two isolated island states in the middle of nowhere?
And South Korea an ethnically homogeneous country with discipline ingrained in their culture?


More than ethnically homogeneous, they have a deep understanding of the Chinese and great on the ground I tell. Both Korea and Taiwan knew something was wrong in China, knew their lockdowns, distrusted the Chinese official story and reacted as one. In the US, we had PC-group think from both parties, diverse population who wouldn’t follow a politician to a free beer counter.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:00 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
Iloveboeing wrote:
In Zimbabwe?
...
I said all of that because I was surprised that you said you were treated well in Zimbabwe because I've heard really bad things about that part of Africa.

2020-25=1995
It may also have been 94 or 96, I don't remember.

Why is this surprising? I'm not sure if Germany in 1933 was a worse place for Jews than other European countries. 1938 it was clear which wasn't a good place for Jews.

Once sadists, paranoid people and opportunists take over there is no knowing what can happen.

You may also read about the Milgram experiment.


Rather the point is that the events of 1980s Zimbabwe did not bode well for the white residents there. That seemed pretty obvious.


Didn’t bode well for ANY residents.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:25 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
2020-25=1995
It may also have been 94 or 96, I don't remember.

Why is this surprising? I'm not sure if Germany in 1933 was a worse place for Jews than other European countries. 1938 it was clear which wasn't a good place for Jews.

Once sadists, paranoid people and opportunists take over there is no knowing what can happen.

You may also read about the Milgram experiment.


Rather the point is that the events of 1980s Zimbabwe did not bode well for the white residents there. That seemed pretty obvious.


Didn’t bode well for ANY residents.


Context upthread - Sokes was a white visitor and that’s what the other user remarked on. Your point is correct but entirely unrelated.
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Sokes
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:14 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
The Africans keep voting for the ANC so they’ll never succeed at anything other than continuing failure.

Sounds a lot like long stretches of independent India's history.
Can you expand?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:21 pm

Sokes wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
The Africans keep voting for the ANC so they’ll never succeed at anything other than continuing failure.

Sounds a lot like long stretches of independent India's history.
Can you expand?


The ANC has a 25-year record of failure to deliver on promises while graft and corruption have raided the public coffers time and again. Every time an opposition party becomes popular, the ANC uses fear tactics centered around rich white people controlling the economy, businesses leaving, and private companies grabbing natural resources. Meanwhile they have done next to zero about township living conditions, rampant crime, and enhancing competition or investor appeal. Low education voters repeatedly vote them back into power, rinse and repeat.

Some recent reporting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vofY-elGa28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npiRE02Wbgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkYsjYKxXFU
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:57 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Things appear to be really bad and getting worse with the countrys economy.
State-owned companies in South Africa, which are deep in debt, are costing the country billions to keep afloat and the bill is getting bigger.
The South African Post Office has requested $293m
the airports operator, Acsa, has applied for about $200m,
The weapons manufacturer Denel also faces bankruptcy.
SAA is bankrupt.
National electricity supplier Eskom was deep in debt before the pandemic and there are rolling power cuts in part due to outdated equipment.
South Africa has had its International credit rating cut to junk.

Is there a way forward out of this mess?


Yes, its a extremely mismanaged and corrupt country. They have almost finished cannibalizing the infrastructure of state that was built up beforehand and when that is done they will achieve failed state status, like many of their neighboring countries.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:01 pm

johnboy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
... SA had all the institutions to continue as a functional country but as soon as you start removing competent management and replacing them with family and friends the result is what you see today.


That sounds like another country I know very well.


yes, most of the 3rd world
 
bennett123
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:24 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-54055814

Not disputing that the initial advertisement was inappropriate, but there seems to be a significant looking for reasons to riot and loot.

Not encouraging for visitors/investors.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:24 am

CobaltScar wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Things appear to be really bad and getting worse with the countrys economy.
State-owned companies in South Africa, which are deep in debt, are costing the country billions to keep afloat and the bill is getting bigger.
The South African Post Office has requested $293m
the airports operator, Acsa, has applied for about $200m,
The weapons manufacturer Denel also faces bankruptcy.
SAA is bankrupt.
National electricity supplier Eskom was deep in debt before the pandemic and there are rolling power cuts in part due to outdated equipment.
South Africa has had its International credit rating cut to junk.

Is there a way forward out of this mess?


Yes, its a extremely mismanaged and corrupt country. They have almost finished cannibalizing the infrastructure of state that was built up beforehand and when that is done they will achieve failed state status, like many of their neighboring countries.


It's sad because when power was turned over to Mandela the country was a success, Mandela was smart enough to realise he still needed white people and it would take generations before blacks could take over the running of the country, his successors weren't smart men, they ripped everything apart, replaced competent people with family and friends and blamed white people for all the problems that ensued.
 
seat64k
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Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:14 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Low education voters repeatedly vote them back into power, rinse and repeat.


Education is quite possibly their biggest failure.
 
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Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:55 am

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:20 pm

Things are going from bad to worse.
South Africa's GDP plunges over 50% as COVID-19's 'punch in the gut' triggers the steepest decline since 1960

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/south-africa-gdp-plunges-in-steepest-decline-1960-2020-9-1029570054

All countries experienced sharp declines in GDP during the period but 50% is insane!
By comparison most tourism dependent countries in Europe had less than a third the decline in economic output that SA had.
 
Sokes
Posts: 2196
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:02 am

bennett123 wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-54055814

Not disputing that the initial advertisement was inappropriate, but there seems to be a significant looking for reasons to riot and loot.

Not encouraging for visitors/investors.

Inappropriate?
The advertisement is outrageous, same as the monkey one from the other company.

But it's true that a few individuals and not the full company may be responsible. I hope the trouble makes sure companies get better review procedures.
They can employ a black review board. That would be a nice gesture.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Sokes
Posts: 2196
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:11 am

seat64k wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Low education voters repeatedly vote them back into power, rinse and repeat.


Education is quite possibly their biggest failure.

That's also my impression in India.
We had a topic "echo chamber" where we discussed that thinking needs training.

Even mature democracies are always at risk to get harmful regulations (banking) or dysfunctional courts (Italy) because many people are just not interested in these questions. When the child is finally fallen into the well such people won't blame their own disinterest, but vote for a populist.

What to expect then from people who never received proper training in thinking?

Rich countries want to help?
They should run schools where governments allow and should stop any direct money transfer to the corrupt elites/ government accounts.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
bennett123
Posts: 10107
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:46 am

Sokes

Two review boards?..
 
Sokes
Posts: 2196
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:24 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Sokes

Two review boards?..

Good point.
What's the racial composition of review boards?
Do they review ads?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2714
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:29 pm

Yeah who could have seen this coming....

They did it to themselves.
 
seat64k
Posts: 611
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:18 am

Sokes wrote:
The advertisement is outrageous, same as the monkey one from the other company.


IMHO the outrage is entirely insincere. The descriptions are literally what's on the front of shampoo bottles. Yeah, they could have mixed up the pictures in a different order, but even if you think that's really an issue of consequence, the response FROM A POLITICAL PARTY is what's really outragous.
 
Maloak33
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:58 pm

Of all the things I’ve lost, I miss my mind the most.
 
Derico
Posts: 4427
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:18 am

UnMAXed wrote:
Things are going from bad to worse.
South Africa's GDP plunges over 50% as COVID-19's 'punch in the gut' triggers the steepest decline since 1960

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/south-africa-gdp-plunges-in-steepest-decline-1960-2020-9-1029570054

All countries experienced sharp declines in GDP during the period but 50% is insane!
By comparison most tourism dependent countries in Europe had less than a third the decline in economic output that SA had.


The official figure is a bit misleading for countries like South Africa, India, etc, where a massive sector of the economy is informal, or underground, or both, and therefore not measured. And the virus has driven even more of the economy into this mode. Of course it's horrible everywhere, but not a 50% drop.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 12724
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Is South Africa about to fall of a cliff?

Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:55 am

Derico wrote:
UnMAXed wrote:
Things are going from bad to worse.
South Africa's GDP plunges over 50% as COVID-19's 'punch in the gut' triggers the steepest decline since 1960

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/south-africa-gdp-plunges-in-steepest-decline-1960-2020-9-1029570054

All countries experienced sharp declines in GDP during the period but 50% is insane!
By comparison most tourism dependent countries in Europe had less than a third the decline in economic output that SA had.


The official figure is a bit misleading for countries like South Africa, India, etc, where a massive sector of the economy is informal, or underground, or both, and therefore not measured. And the virus has driven even more of the economy into this mode. Of course it's horrible everywhere, but not a 50% drop.


Economic figures are unreliable in SA even in a good year. The interior ministries are full of less-than qualified individuals installed there by patronage, and incentivized to keep their posts by manufacturing data to preserve foreign investment prospects.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty

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