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LH658
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Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:20 pm

Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US? Anyone would like to share their experience who have done so? or share their TDI engine experience? Thanks guys!
 
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Tugger
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:45 pm

The thread title is deceiving by not including the key relevant topic question. It should be changed to include you are referring only to the TDI imbroglio and not Audi's in general.

Yes I would buy an Audi. No I would not buy a TDI, especially one involved in the smog rigging scandal.

Tugg
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johns624
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:55 pm

The OP might also state his alternative. Such as "would you buy an Audi instead of a Yugo?". Depending on the circumstances and alternatives, I might.
 
DFW17L
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:13 pm

Fun to drive, but the cheating was egregious.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:56 pm

No, never, except maybe - and it's actually a big maybe given the alternatives - a RS6 or RS3.

While nice to look at, very well built and with class-leading interiors, they are also understeering carriages of despair. I buy cars primarily based on how they steer and handle, and Audi's are like trying to fold a floppy, wet, newspaper into a crisp paper aircraft. About as un-fun to drive as watching paint dry.

For the record I've driven the 80, 100, A3, A4, A6, Q7 and TT, diesel and petrol powered. All of them rentals and all left me equally cold. I actually declined an "upgrade" from a BMW 3-series to an A6 once, which left the Sixt agent somewhat flabbergasted. The Q7 was, by a considerable margin, the worst of them all. But not because it was diesel powered, that was actually it's only redeeming quality.
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LCDFlight
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:59 pm

Audi led the luxury car world - briefly - around the year 2000.

These days, the price is absolutely insane(ly high) for what you get. Nobody even cares about luxury cars anymore. I don't even think an A6, A8 or R8 is a status symbol really. Tesla is the status symbol now.

The Germans tricked themselves into a cost-reduced business model. They sell a Toyota equivalent for nearly Aston Martin dollars, that isn't as good a car as the Toyota it was emulating.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:04 am

I'd question buying a diesel period at this point in time if I was worried about resale value, with the current rise of EV. I am on my second TDI (niether Audi - Skoda and now Volvo), and I've had no problems with the engines. I did look at Audi before getting the Volvo, but found the extra $ hard to justify for basically the same engine as my Skoda.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:20 am

My brother-in-law bought a used Audi, although a TSI rather than a TDI. He has stated that he wished he bought my car, a Renault instead.

As for me, I would buy one, but only an RS model & only new. Which means I'll probably never buy one...
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LH658
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:45 am

I've owned VW's for years never had any issue, I've owned a TDI engine though it was the old school diesel engine before clean diesel became a thing in USA. Was looking for a car found some 3.0 Liter TDI for sale, I've heard great things about them by enthusiasts, I'd love own diesel again. Though I decided to get opinions from folks on here, who currently own or purchased a TDI before or after diesel gate scandal.
 
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Jetsgo
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:10 am

I would buy a VW with a TDI engine, however I have almost zero interest in Audi as a brand. I don't believe the A4/A6/A8/Q7/TT stack up well against their Mercedes and BMW counterparts. They're ahead of Lexus though so there's that.
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cpd
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:14 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Audi led the luxury car world - briefly - around the year 2000.

These days, the price is absolutely insane(ly high) for what you get. Nobody even cares about luxury cars anymore. I don't even think an A6, A8 or R8 is a status symbol really. Tesla is the status symbol now.

The Germans tricked themselves into a cost-reduced business model. They sell a Toyota equivalent for nearly Aston Martin dollars, that isn't as good a car as the Toyota it was emulating.


We had an A6 3.0L TDI Quattro wagon a few years ago overseas for a while - it was brilliant. Always heavily loaded and driven quickly on mountain roads (it was a support car for a bicycle race) and the thing never put a foot wrong. Economy was decent given what it had to do any it was very well liked. Upgrade from the Skoda Octavia that was originally requested but not available.

No Toyota I've seen or been in had seemed as solidly put together as that A6. I also liked that it wasn't a highly specified version as well.

Toyota here also stings you with very expensive option packages and they are very outdated in some things like the satnav systems and the like. Only the Supra is up to date in that regard (because it borrows the BMW system that works well). Some things aren't even available as an option.

A diesel 5 series wagon would be a good alternative, but as I understand it you cannot have those in the USA.
 
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cjg225
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:22 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Audi led the luxury car world - briefly - around the year 2000.

These days, the price is absolutely insane(ly high) for what you get. Nobody even cares about luxury cars anymore. I don't even think an A6, A8 or R8 is a status symbol really. Tesla is the status symbol now.

The Germans tricked themselves into a cost-reduced business model. They sell a Toyota equivalent for nearly Aston Martin dollars, that isn't as good a car as the Toyota it was emulating.

I loved my 2000 A6. Had it for nearly 15 years from October 2004 to September 2019. Such a great ride. And God bless the cow that died for the leather in that car, because at 20 years old it was still in excellent shape despite 187,000 miles on the car.

I have a 2016 A4 now. I like it a lot. Got it about 18 months ago with 18,000 miles on it. I'm told it was an Audi corporate car, so it is in great shape with those low miles and came at a pretty good price from an Audi dealership. So far, so good with it. Need to replace the brakes soon, which will be expensive, but otherwise been fine.
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Reinhardt
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:21 am

I have a 3 year old, Audi A4 TDI Avant. 3 litre, 270hp. It's got adaptive suspension, s-line etc. Looks great, pulls like mad on the German autobahn. Best car I've ever owned. The quality of plastics in the interior is far better than current 3 series. I've owned 3 BMW 3 series over the years, and ok it's not as engaging but it's quiet, refined and I have no issues pushing it round corners hard if I want to. I had an A6 before this, and that was a barge in comparison.

Since it's on a PCP deal I have a guaranteed future value so no issues about re-sale in a few years time.
 
VMCA787
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:03 am

I have a 2018 Audi Q-3 2.0TDI. Have had it since new and have had zero problems with it. It's a 7 speed automatic and in town gets around 29mpg and on a long trip seeing 40mpg doing 75ish mph isn't unusual. Will probably keep it for another year or so and then get another. Would not hesitate to get another diesel, Audi.
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Aesma
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:08 pm

In the US you pay so little for gas I wouldn't consider a diesel unless the application demanded it (towing or something like that).

In France where diesels were kings the tide is changing rapidly. There are still lower taxes on diesel fuel than gas, yet less and less diesel cars are sold, some models have even dropped diesel engines altogether, and everyone expects that they will be impossible to resell in a few years.

French companies have an additional tax incentive on diesel fuel, yet this week my company Renault Clio with a 1.5 dCI engine gets replaced by a Renault Clio with a 0.9 TCE engine (turbo gas). The leasing company basically doesn't want to buy diesel cars anymore.

Having driven diesel cars for a long time, I hate them, noisy, smelly, smokey, don't rev... The only reason to get one is fuel economy.

Also I don't like Audis, they all look the same and are FWD.

I would make an exception for the R8 RWS.
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Reinhardt
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:07 pm

Aesma wrote:
Having driven diesel cars for a long time, I hate them, noisy, smelly, smokey, don't rev... The only reason to get one is fuel economy.


Then you've been driving the wrong diesel's then. I'm on my third. None have been smokey, noisy or smelly. Tons of Torque is one thing over Petrol > incredibly fun.

Diesel where I live is 1,05 € litre right now, Petrol is 1,25 ish. It makes no sense to get a Petrol still, even with an additional tax the German govenment just slapped on Diesel. Costs me 50€ to fill up and I get around 800 km range if I'm very light with the right foot (hard to do here!)

Aesma wrote:
Also I don't like Audis, they all look the same and are FWD.


Of course looks are a personal opinion.

One word, Quattro.
 
Phenom89
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:30 pm

In the UK, my rear view mirror is usually 100% full of Audi and the only time I've ever been forced off the road is by an Audi driver , so no, apparently only sociopaths drive Audi's :D
 
VMCA787
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:07 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Diesel where I live is 1,05 € litre right now, Petrol is 1,25 ish. It makes no sense to get a Petrol still, even with an additional tax the German govenment just slapped on Diesel. Costs me 50€ to fill up and I get around 800 km range if I'm very light with the right foot (hard to do here!)

.



Where I am, diesel is .88 Euros/L. Petrol is about 1.05/L, like you wrote, doesn't make much sense to go with petrol.
Fly fast, live slow!
 
JJJ
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:48 pm

Aesma wrote:
In the US you pay so little for gas I wouldn't consider a diesel unless the application demanded it (towing or something like that).

In France where diesels were kings the tide is changing rapidly. There are still lower taxes on diesel fuel than gas, yet less and less diesel cars are sold, some models have even dropped diesel engines altogether, and everyone expects that they will be impossible to resell in a few years.


Small engines are simply too expensive to be Euro 6 compliant. Bigger ones will still be there for years to come.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:41 pm

cjg225 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Audi led the luxury car world - briefly - around the year 2000.

These days, the price is absolutely insane(ly high) for what you get. Nobody even cares about luxury cars anymore. I don't even think an A6, A8 or R8 is a status symbol really. Tesla is the status symbol now.

The Germans tricked themselves into a cost-reduced business model. They sell a Toyota equivalent for nearly Aston Martin dollars, that isn't as good a car as the Toyota it was emulating.

I loved my 2000 A6. Had it for nearly 15 years from October 2004 to September 2019. Such a great ride. And God bless the cow that died for the leather in that car, because at 20 years old it was still in excellent shape despite 187,000 miles on the car.

I have a 2016 A4 now. I like it a lot. Got it about 18 months ago with 18,000 miles on it. I'm told it was an Audi corporate car, so it is in great shape with those low miles and came at a pretty good price from an Audi dealership. So far, so good with it. Need to replace the brakes soon, which will be expensive, but otherwise been fine.


I agreed that 2000 era was good. I considered buying a 2000 A8 from an engineer who fixes them. I also considered a 2000 era Allroad, I like those too. (both are $3000-$5000 cars now). Audi at that time was making pretty, well-finished, expensively engineered cars. Very complex cars but at least they were well made. And a few have made it today in good shape, which makes them interesting Craigslist/hobby cars.

The 2016 A4 is very pretty. It's probably the one Audi I like. The big ones (same for BMW) are totally overwrought now, and the quality isn't what it was in 2000. JMO, but it's not just me saying that. Audi and VW group were at a major (raging) peak in 2000-2005. They built insane projects such as VW Phaeton, TDI V12, Bugatti Veyron in those years.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:14 pm

I'd only get one if I could get a set of indicators retrofitted, as clearly they must not come as standard based on the way Audis are driven in the UK.
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alfa164
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:24 pm

LH658 wrote:
Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US? Anyone would like to share their experience who have done so? or share their TDI engine experience? Thanks guys!


Lease it. Audi dealers have pre-owned, checked-out vehicles for lease, as do independent leasing companies. Be sure you are covered by their warranties (dealer pre-owneds almost always have warranties similar to the new models) and give yourself peace of mind - and maybe save yourself some grief.
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luckyone
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:55 pm

VMCA787 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
Diesel where I live is 1,05 € litre right now, Petrol is 1,25 ish. It makes no sense to get a Petrol still, even with an additional tax the German govenment just slapped on Diesel. Costs me 50€ to fill up and I get around 800 km range if I'm very light with the right foot (hard to do here!)

.



Where I am, diesel is .88 Euros/L. Petrol is about 1.05/L, like you wrote, doesn't make much sense to go with petrol.

It completely depends on how much you drive and whether or not the cost of the diesel (historically a bit higher) breaks even.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:52 am

luckyone wrote:
VMCA787 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
Diesel where I live is 1,05 € litre right now, Petrol is 1,25 ish. It makes no sense to get a Petrol still, even with an additional tax the German govenment just slapped on Diesel. Costs me 50€ to fill up and I get around 800 km range if I'm very light with the right foot (hard to do here!)

.



Where I am, diesel is .88 Euros/L. Petrol is about 1.05/L, like you wrote, doesn't make much sense to go with petrol.

It completely depends on how much you drive and whether or not the cost of the diesel (historically a bit higher) breaks even.


Yes true. But it does hugely depend on cost. For example in the UK Diesel is heavily taxed, so its more expensive that Petrol. It's basically the reverse of what we have in most countries on the continent. So if you're not doing hundreds and hundreds of miles per month, it makes no sense to get a Diesel. Almost an exception to the rule though.
 
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cjg225
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:31 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
I agreed that 2000 era was good. I considered buying a 2000 A8 from an engineer who fixes them. I also considered a 2000 era Allroad, I like those too. (both are $3000-$5000 cars now). Audi at that time was making pretty, well-finished, expensively engineered cars. Very complex cars but at least they were well made. And a few have made it today in good shape, which makes them interesting Craigslist/hobby cars.

The 2016 A4 is very pretty. It's probably the one Audi I like. The big ones (same for BMW) are totally overwrought now, and the quality isn't what it was in 2000. JMO, but it's not just me saying that. Audi and VW group were at a major (raging) peak in 2000-2005. They built insane projects such as VW Phaeton, TDI V12, Bugatti Veyron in those years.

Oh, haha, yeah, "complex" is a good word. I loved my 2000 A6, but man was it expensive to fix when something went wrong (which, fortunately, was rare). I actually replaced the ABS module myself around early 2010 because I just did not want to have to deal with how much it would cost to do at a repair shop.

One of the reasons I went with the A4 for my new car is that, over those 16 years between my 2000 A6 and the 2016 A4, the A4 in general had grown in size to the point it was nearly the same size as a 2000 A6. I didn't feel the need to go with an A6 since the size was already pretty much perfect for me.

I also have just the "Premium" (lowest-end) package, so it lacks some of the gizmos and tech that's in the Premium Plus/Prestige packages.
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M564038
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:07 pm

It makes about as much sense discussing fossil fueled cars in 2020 as it did discussing piston powered airliners in 1958.

EVs are the only game in town, and Audi actually has one.
The e-tron however, is beaten to death by Tesla on range, efficiency of interior space and it even asks for an oil change after a certain distance driven. (It doesn’t have an oil tank).

So no Audi for me, i guess, I actually did drive one this weekend and it feels ok, but it costs so much more than comparable Teslas on the market.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:27 pm

Scandal or no scandal, I would never buy an Audi, or any luxury car brand for that matter. What does an Audi provide that a mainstream brand doesn't? Deluxe interiors? Status to brag about? I don't drive a car because of its interiors, and wouldn't pay more than necessary to tell the world "look at what I can afford". Even a small Audi sedan will cost more to insure than a mainstream mini SUV.

Even if I had thousands to spend, a luxury car is definitely not in my list of things.
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cjg225
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:20 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Scandal or no scandal, I would never buy an Audi, or any luxury car brand for that matter. What does an Audi provide that a mainstream brand doesn't? Deluxe interiors? Status to brag about? I don't drive a car because of its interiors, and wouldn't pay more than necessary to tell the world "look at what I can afford". Even a small Audi sedan will cost more to insure than a mainstream mini SUV.

Even if I had thousands to spend, a luxury car is definitely not in my list of things.

Very simple test for this. Not perfect, but it's illustrative.

If you have access to any luxury car, close a passenger door hard. Now do that with an "everyman" car brand like a Chevy or a Kia.

You'll hear a significant different. Luxury brands tend to be built much more solidly and with more sound-dampening materials. There's a higher-quality build to most luxury brands.

When I'm traveling (well, haven't in a long time thanks to COVID19), I feel like I'm riding around in an empty soup can when I have my everyman-brand rental.
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Waterbomber2
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:22 pm

Audi's are just pimped up VW's.
I owned an Audi A4 1.9 TDI and it was fine until everything started falling apart at the same time at around 110.000 miles.
The engine is fine and robust, but it's all the rest that's the problem. Electronics, clutches, rusting weldings, steering links that get consumed, all of which carry a hefty repair bill.

Audi are disposable cars that look good and are good the first 5-7 years. But then they are useless.
Transmission systems are a notorious weakness of VW. If it's an auto transmission I would steer clear.

If you are buying used and need the car to last, I would buy a Toyota. They may not look as fancy but the drive quality is on par with Audi, with none of the problems.
 
luckyone
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:38 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Audi's are just pimped up VW's.
I owned an Audi A4 1.9 TDI and it was fine until everything started falling apart at the same time at around 110.000 miles.
The engine is fine and robust, but it's all the rest that's the problem. Electronics, clutches, rusting weldings, steering links that get consumed, all of which carry a hefty repair bill.

Audi are disposable cars that look good and are good the first 5-7 years. But then they are useless.
Transmission systems are a notorious weakness of VW. If it's an auto transmission I would steer clear.

If you are buying used and need the car to last, I would buy a Toyota. They may not look as fancy but the drive quality is on par with Audi, with none of the problems.

I will vehemently disagree there. I wouldn't buy an Audi either, but in all my experiences with a Toyota, they pale in comparison in handling to just about anything other than some low grade Hyundais/Kias, and at least the versions we get in the States are wheezily underpowered. Reliability, I will grant you. But for the money a Mazda or Honda lasts just as long and is much better to drive.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:54 pm

Good cars.

Not as stylish as say an Alfa Romeo, but Audi is a solid enough brand.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:05 pm

Yes I would and and I have, since 2014 I have purchased 3 Audi’s, 2 A6’s and an A1. The A6’s are both tdis.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:10 pm

M564038 wrote:
It makes about as much sense discussing fossil fueled cars in 2020 as it did discussing piston powered airliners in 1958.

EVs are the only game in town, and Audi actually has one.
The e-tron however, is beaten to death by Tesla on range, efficiency of interior space and it even asks for an oil change after a certain distance driven. (It doesn’t have an oil tank).

So no Audi for me, i guess, I actually did drive one this weekend and it feels ok, but it costs so much more than comparable Teslas on the market.


It might be beaten on range but aside from that it’s a far superior car to any Tesla, it’s built better, it drives better, it has a much nicer interior, as a car it’s a lot better, in Europe where people don’t drive excessively long distances the E-Tron works, it’s also been the most most popular car in Norway for the last 9 months. It completely outsold Tesla by a huge margin.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:51 pm

luckyone wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
Audi's are just pimped up VW's.
I owned an Audi A4 1.9 TDI and it was fine until everything started falling apart at the same time at around 110.000 miles.
The engine is fine and robust, but it's all the rest that's the problem. Electronics, clutches, rusting weldings, steering links that get consumed, all of which carry a hefty repair bill.

Audi are disposable cars that look good and are good the first 5-7 years. But then they are useless.
Transmission systems are a notorious weakness of VW. If it's an auto transmission I would steer clear.

If you are buying used and need the car to last, I would buy a Toyota. They may not look as fancy but the drive quality is on par with Audi, with none of the problems.

I will vehemently disagree there. I wouldn't buy an Audi either, but in all my experiences with a Toyota, they pale in comparison in handling to just about anything other than some low grade Hyundais/Kias, and at least the versions we get in the States are wheezily underpowered. Reliability, I will grant you. But for the money a Mazda or Honda lasts just as long and is much better to drive.


I had both and compared the 2000 Audi A4 with the 2003 Corolla.
The Corolla stands taller but was still allowing me to take corners faster than the A4 before understeering. So in terms of handling they handle better.
In terms of ride comfort, Audi feels better for sure.
The Audi's also feel more rugged but mechanically, where it matters most, they are not.
They are hangar queens for sure. Never again.

Friend of mine had her automatic gear fail on her 2008 VW Jetta at less than 80K miles.

Steer clear, invest in a reliable car.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:12 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
M564038 wrote:
It makes about as much sense discussing fossil fueled cars in 2020 as it did discussing piston powered airliners in 1958.

EVs are the only game in town, and Audi actually has one.
The e-tron however, is beaten to death by Tesla on range, efficiency of interior space and it even asks for an oil change after a certain distance driven. (It doesn’t have an oil tank).

So no Audi for me, i guess, I actually did drive one this weekend and it feels ok, but it costs so much more than comparable Teslas on the market.


It might be beaten on range but aside from that it’s a far superior car to any Tesla, it’s built better, it drives better, it has a much nicer interior, as a car it’s a lot better, in Europe where people don’t drive excessively long distances the E-Tron works, it’s also been the most most popular car in Norway for the last 9 months. It completely outsold Tesla by a huge margin.


It remains to be seen.
Audi/VW doesn't have a lot of experience with EV's and VW are notorious for cheaping out on major components.
Fancy a motor or battery change?

Tesla has its fair deal of issues too, buying a used Tesla is not without risk.
I own a Nissan Leaf and quite frankly, I don't see why I would fork out a multiple of what it's worth on a Tesla that has a few toys here and there.
-The added range of Tesla's is great but useless in a daily commute situation. Tesla's are much heavier and thus have a higher power consumption too so you're burning electricty to carry the car's own additional weight.
-The reliability is not great. Failures of motors, batteries, electronic components galore. When the car gets older, things won't get better.

The reliability of the Leaf is astonishing and bar a few issues with the early battery in extremely hot climates, most replaced under warranty, it has a flawless reliability record.
Sure, with the Leaf I need to charge more often but I think that in a European daily driving setting with many free charging opportunities, nothing beats its economics and reliability.
11-12 kWh per 100km, doesn't need any form of maintenance for 150K miles and then a battery swap and you're on your way for another 150K miles.

The only annoying thing is finding BMW PHV's occupying charging spots for entire days due to owners who are under the illusion that they are EV drivers. The little savings in your gas bill is not even worth wasting your time connecting your charger and activating the charging. Charging points are for EV's; charge your PHV at home.
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:14 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
I had both and compared the 2000 Audi A4 with the 2003 Corolla.
The Corolla stands taller but was still allowing me to take corners faster than the A4 before understeering. So in terms of handling they handle better.
In terms of ride comfort, Audi feels better for sure.
The Audi's also feel more rugged but mechanically, where it matters most, they are not.
They are hangar queens for sure. Never again.

Friend of mine had her automatic gear fail on her 2008 VW Jetta at less than 80K miles.

Steer clear, invest in a reliable car.

So much of this is how you maintain your vehicles and how hard (or not) you drive them, though. Not saying Audis are perfect (they're not), but so many people I know have car problems of all sorts with all kinds of different cars because they're just not good about maintaining their vehicles or driving them appropriately.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
luckyone
Posts: 3770
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:30 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
Audi's are just pimped up VW's.
I owned an Audi A4 1.9 TDI and it was fine until everything started falling apart at the same time at around 110.000 miles.
The engine is fine and robust, but it's all the rest that's the problem. Electronics, clutches, rusting weldings, steering links that get consumed, all of which carry a hefty repair bill.

Audi are disposable cars that look good and are good the first 5-7 years. But then they are useless.
Transmission systems are a notorious weakness of VW. If it's an auto transmission I would steer clear.

If you are buying used and need the car to last, I would buy a Toyota. They may not look as fancy but the drive quality is on par with Audi, with none of the problems.

I will vehemently disagree there. I wouldn't buy an Audi either, but in all my experiences with a Toyota, they pale in comparison in handling to just about anything other than some low grade Hyundais/Kias, and at least the versions we get in the States are wheezily underpowered. Reliability, I will grant you. But for the money a Mazda or Honda lasts just as long and is much better to drive.


I had both and compared the 2000 Audi A4 with the 2003 Corolla.
The Corolla stands taller but was still allowing me to take corners faster than the A4 before understeering. So in terms of handling they handle better.
In terms of ride comfort, Audi feels better for sure.
The Audi's also feel more rugged but mechanically, where it matters most, they are not.
They are hangar queens for sure. Never again.

Steer clear, invest in a reliable car.

I guess we can agree to disagree on handling, and overall maneuverability, because overall in every day driving every Audi I've ever driven feels more composed and reassuring than all but the latest generation of Toyotas (Ie new Camry/Corolla), and my first car was a Corolla. Specifically with respect to cornering, Audis have a drawback as the engine overhangs the front axle.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13392
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:13 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:

I had both and compared the 2000 Audi A4 with the 2003 Corolla.
The Corolla stands taller but was still allowing me to take corners faster than the A4 before understeering. So in terms of handling they handle better.
In terms of ride comfort, Audi feels better for sure.
The Audi's also feel more rugged but mechanically, where it matters most, they are not.
They are hangar queens for sure. Never again.

Friend of mine had her automatic gear fail on her 2008 VW Jetta at less than 80K miles.

Steer clear, invest in a reliable car.


I've owned 3 Audi and currently own 2, we've also had 2 VW's, we've never had any mechanical or electrical problems with any of them.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US?

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:33 am

Regarding Diesel in general.

I have a BMW turbo Diesel and a Mercedes turbo Diesel.

The Mercedes Diesel I have been driving 3 years Sweden Spain. Around 20 kilometers per liter with heavy load and 3 persons. My BMW 520 do similar numbers.

I think with Euro 6 Diesel today is more or equal clean or bad as petrol but use much less. One full tank of Diesel and the BMW gives me 1200 kilometer.

Normally I like to buy a 1-2 year old car and use them for 10 years. Before invest around 35000 USD, wich I normally pay cash I would like to see that electric cars maintain quality over time.

Here in Europe there will be a shift with electric cars and trucks being charged on the highway. I would like to understand when this will happen before moving to full electrical for my next car.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15616
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US?

Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:18 pm

The popularity of diesel engine cars in the EU was pushed by the lower costs of diesel fuel but the reality of high maintenance costs, the impossibility to meet increasing pollution standards, cheating of testing by car makers, the rise of hybrids have killed them off there.

Diesel engines cars never got more than token acceptance in the USA and Canada and due to our pollution laws, the cheating scandals, they can no longer be sold here except in a few SUV models. Since the early 1990's diesels have captured almost all but the lightest class (under 8000 pound/4000 Kg GVW) commercial vehicles market.in the USA/Canada.

I expect diesels worldwide to continue to dominate in medium to long distance commercial vehicles, full and part EV commercial vehicles for urban and inner suburban use. EV's and part EV for most cars and light SUV vehicles in suburban areas, for core urban areas, part EV's due to limited access to charging points or can't charge from a home outlet. Pure petrol or hybrid cars and light commercials for rural use.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3770
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US?

Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:48 pm

ltbewr wrote:
The popularity of diesel engine cars in the EU was pushed by the lower costs of diesel fuel but the reality of high maintenance costs, the impossibility to meet increasing pollution standards, cheating of testing by car makers, the rise of hybrids have killed them off there.

How much of the lower cost and subsequent sales success of diesel was artificial due to how the fuel was taxed by various governments? It was my understanding that perceived climate benefits influenced how petrol and diesel were taxed. We can argue the merits of that policy elsewhere until the cows come home, but that was

ltbewr wrote:
Diesel engines cars never got more than token acceptance in the USA and Canada and due to our pollution laws, the cheating scandals, they can no longer be sold here except in a few SUV models. Since the early 1990's diesels have captured almost all but the lightest class (under 8000 pound/4000 Kg GVW) commercial vehicles market.in the USA/Canada..

That is not correct. There is nothing preventing an automaker from putting a diesel on the market other than market reception and emissions standards, which the standards themselves haven't changed. Chevrolet was selling a diesel in their compact Cruze from 2014 until they stopped selling the Cruze entirely in 2019. They still sell the same engine in the Equinox, which is marketed as an "SUV," though technically it's a tall station wagon. BMW actually brought a diesel back to the 5-series in 2018.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13392
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:42 am

olle wrote:
Regarding Diesel in general.

I have a BMW turbo Diesel and a Mercedes turbo Diesel.

The Mercedes Diesel I have been driving 3 years Sweden Spain. Around 20 kilometers per liter with heavy load and 3 persons. My BMW 520 do similar numbers.

I think with Euro 6 Diesel today is more or equal clean or bad as petrol but use much less. One full tank of Diesel and the BMW gives me 1200 kilometer.

Normally I like to buy a 1-2 year old car and use them for 10 years. Before invest around 35000 USD, wich I normally pay cash I would like to see that electric cars maintain quality over time.

Here in Europe there will be a shift with electric cars and trucks being charged on the highway. I would like to understand when this will happen before moving to full electrical for my next car.


I've had 2 Audi A6 avants with the same 2.0 TDI engine, one was Euro 5 and the other Euro 6, the first was a 2013 model fwd with multitronic tranmission, 18 inch wheels, on a full tank I could get up to 1400km on the highway, I replaced that with a 2018 Euro 6 model which is quattro with s-tronic transmission, a full tank in that car I can get up to 1200km, the difference isn't the engine it's the quattro system and larger 19inch wheels.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14435
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:12 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

I had both and compared the 2000 Audi A4 with the 2003 Corolla.
The Corolla stands taller but was still allowing me to take corners faster than the A4 before understeering. So in terms of handling they handle better.
In terms of ride comfort, Audi feels better for sure.
The Audi's also feel more rugged but mechanically, where it matters most, they are not.
They are hangar queens for sure. Never again.

Friend of mine had her automatic gear fail on her 2008 VW Jetta at less than 80K miles.

Steer clear, invest in a reliable car.


I've owned 3 Audi and currently own 2, we've also had 2 VW's, we've never had any mechanical or electrical problems with any of them.


how long did you keep them? The Water pumps tend to give up somewhere between 150 and 200k km.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13392
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:23 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

I had both and compared the 2000 Audi A4 with the 2003 Corolla.
The Corolla stands taller but was still allowing me to take corners faster than the A4 before understeering. So in terms of handling they handle better.
In terms of ride comfort, Audi feels better for sure.
The Audi's also feel more rugged but mechanically, where it matters most, they are not.
They are hangar queens for sure. Never again.

Friend of mine had her automatic gear fail on her 2008 VW Jetta at less than 80K miles.

Steer clear, invest in a reliable car.


I've owned 3 Audi and currently own 2, we've also had 2 VW's, we've never had any mechanical or electrical problems with any of them.


how long did you keep them? The Water pumps tend to give up somewhere between 150 and 200k km.

best regards
Thomas


I tend to swap cars every 3 years. Although the A1 has been with us for 6 years, we're keeping her for our oldest to learn to drive in, he will start learning next year. So far she's done approx. 65,000km.

I'll probably keep the A6 longer than 3 years this time around, I'd like to wait for a much wider assortment of BEV's to become available before I make the jump.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:23 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

I had both and compared the 2000 Audi A4 with the 2003 Corolla.
The Corolla stands taller but was still allowing me to take corners faster than the A4 before understeering. So in terms of handling they handle better.
In terms of ride comfort, Audi feels better for sure.
The Audi's also feel more rugged but mechanically, where it matters most, they are not.
They are hangar queens for sure. Never again.

Friend of mine had her automatic gear fail on her 2008 VW Jetta at less than 80K miles.

Steer clear, invest in a reliable car.


I've owned 3 Audi and currently own 2, we've also had 2 VW's, we've never had any mechanical or electrical problems with any of them.


As I said earlier,

Audi are disposable cars that look good and are good the first 5-7 years. But then they are useless
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13392
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Would you buy a Audi?

Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:17 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

I had both and compared the 2000 Audi A4 with the 2003 Corolla.
The Corolla stands taller but was still allowing me to take corners faster than the A4 before understeering. So in terms of handling they handle better.
In terms of ride comfort, Audi feels better for sure.
The Audi's also feel more rugged but mechanically, where it matters most, they are not.
They are hangar queens for sure. Never again.

Friend of mine had her automatic gear fail on her 2008 VW Jetta at less than 80K miles.

Steer clear, invest in a reliable car.


I've owned 3 Audi and currently own 2, we've also had 2 VW's, we've never had any mechanical or electrical problems with any of them.


As I said earlier,

Audi are disposable cars that look good and are good the first 5-7 years. But then they are useless


Yeah but they aren’t.

I don’t want to drive an older car of any model, but right now with the market changing I will keep my current vehicles longer, I don’t have any worries about there longevity, we’re not talking about American or Chinese made junk. Our A1 is a 2014 model it’s going fine. I know the person who owns my previous A6, they haven’t had any problems with her either.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:25 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
olle wrote:
Regarding Diesel in general.

I have a BMW turbo Diesel and a Mercedes turbo Diesel.

The Mercedes Diesel I have been driving 3 years Sweden Spain. Around 20 kilometers per liter with heavy load and 3 persons. My BMW 520 do similar numbers.

I think with Euro 6 Diesel today is more or equal clean or bad as petrol but use much less. One full tank of Diesel and the BMW gives me 1200 kilometer.

Normally I like to buy a 1-2 year old car and use them for 10 years. Before invest around 35000 USD, wich I normally pay cash I would like to see that electric cars maintain quality over time.

Here in Europe there will be a shift with electric cars and trucks being charged on the highway. I would like to understand when this will happen before moving to full electrical for my next car.


I've had 2 Audi A6 avants with the same 2.0 TDI engine, one was Euro 5 and the other Euro 6, the first was a 2013 model fwd with multitronic tranmission, 18 inch wheels, on a full tank I could get up to 1400km on the highway, I replaced that with a 2018 Euro 6 model which is quattro with s-tronic transmission, a full tank in that car I can get up to 1200km, the difference isn't the engine it's the quattro system and larger 19inch wheels.


I would say that with Euro6 Petrol and Diesel is equal from environment point of view. The difference is that for Diesel Bio Diesel is today available meaning that CO2 is close 0.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14218
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:11 pm

Audi has come a long way. My brother owned a Quantam with that 5 cy crap engine but today it's a solid vehicle as is the Diesel.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8916
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US?

Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:38 pm

Ethics and legal issues aside, for chipping enthusiasts what VW engineers did is brilliant. I am sure there is demand.
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 25788
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Re: Would you buy a pre owned Audi TDI after the diesel gate scandal in the US?

Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:44 pm

The OP probably needs more concrete advice.

Given the mention of the US recall, I presume the purchase would be in the US.

The recall really flooded the market with Audi TDIs and drove down their value. I read that to keep them on the road you have to update the software to get rid of the cheat device. This has side effects of giving worse mileage and requiring more frequent service to continue to meet legal specs (filters need changing, 'exhaust fluid' needs refilling, etc).

Last time I checked, in my area diesel fuel was priced like premium gasoline/petrol. The fuel is more energetic so you can get better mileage but it also may get harder to find over time.

It seems obvious to me that you'd need to get a very good price on an Audi TDI to make the deal work. I'd do more research before I'd even consider buying, but then again I can spend hours researching the purchase of a bolt.

As for the other comments in the thread, I did test drive Audi a long time ago and found the road manners were poor. Needed constant attention to stay in its lane at highway speed, brakes were grabby, handling was not as predictable as I would have liked. If they are all now front wheel drive, I'd just say no without bothering to do a test drive. I will say the interior was very attractive, but that was about its only virtue. The exterior styling was okay at the time, but didn't stand the test of time very well.

Most of the auto industry is now putting four cylinder turbos in sports sedans. They do this to hit fleet wide emissions targets in the US. They make the smaller cars beat the target so the big fat high profit SUVs can pollute more. I've yet to drive a turbo that felt as good to drive as my six cylinder naturally aspirated car, so I think they're making a mistake, but of course all they care about is their net profit and not my driving experience. The obvious solution is a BEV. Nice linear power from standstill to high end. Forget the turbo, it's yet another bandaid applied to the old tech reciprocating engine whose day is rapidly passing.

I'm really attracted to the Tesla, but still can't wrap my head around the poor service record in general and the fact that there are no service centers near me in particular. If the car craps out it's a 45 minute drive to the service center best case, and I have no second car so I'd need a loaner. Once the current car finally is done, I hope all the early bugs are worked out of the Model Y and take a good look at one, but till that happens, I'm going to do what I can to keep the current one going. Also, no super chargers near me, so I'd need to spend a lot of money to install a charge point in my garage which will force me to do some other electrical upgrades I've deferred.
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