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Waterbomber2
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:44 am

StarAC17 wrote:
If you don't agree, fine, come back when Covid strikes your child and then we'll have the "children die all the time of all kinds of things" chat again.
Come back after your business has gone bankrupt and you face financial ruin because governments are being **ssies about implementing tough lockdowns.


Schools across the northern hemisphere have been open for nearly two months now. If kids were facing mass hospitalizations and deaths from Covid19 we would know about it now.
We would have known about it in April. Childrenn are the least at risk from Covid19. In fact any one under 50 with no serious pre-existing conditions have an essentially zero chance of dying from this virus. Some will die, which is why reasonable measures can be taken to slow the spread so we can treat anyone who needs it. The goal of flattening the curve.

One bad case or death is a child sad story and not a trend. Tragically, four year olds die all the time across the globe from dozens of other things. It is horrible for the families of that child but society doesn't shut down.

Unless you believe that the media and politicians are covering this up (I suspect you do). The facts say kids have can handle this easily.

The fear is they are asymptomatic and give it to Grandma, who is at risk.

If this virus had a confirmed 5-20% mortality rate I would agree with you 100%. It doesn't and is sub 1% and that rate is going down, not up.



I wouldn't be so sure about children being spared long-term.
Covid could have chronic effects that could manifest months or years after the initial infection much like AIDS. It can also have a final stage like HIV.

We are already talking about a post-covid syndrome.

Covid has been found to affect many functions of the body, causing organ failure but also severe neurological symptoms.

Covid could nestle itself in nerves like the Herpes virus and manifest itself over and over again months or years later.
The multiple cases of reinfection that we read about could be coming from within the body.

Like AIDS, some people may just not experience a very strong acute phase; but the virus could remain in their body and cause damage at a later stage.
We just don't know yet and until we do for certain, better be safe than sorry.


Past publications highlight that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS) and Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS) infections culminated in a high prevalence of prolonged neurological impact [6,7]. Recent publications highlight the emerging evidence of a new syndrome- Post Covid-19 Neurological Syndrome (PCNS)
(...)
a large study from Belgium and Netherland involving 112 hospitalized and 2001 non-hospitalized COVID-19 positive patients have noted that even among a large number of asymptomatic or very mildly symptomatic patients, prolonged symptoms such as muscle pain, dizziness, headaches, fatigue, and anosmia continued to experience for months, highlighting the need for on-going vigilance for PCNS by neurologists


http://www.jns-journal.com/article/S0022-510X(20)30515-3/fulltext
 
ArchGuy1
Topic Author
Posts: 1909
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:43 am

Northern Ireland has gone under a circuit breaker lockdown for four weeks to try and prevent a full lockdown. Bars and restaurants will be closed, indoor amateur sports will be halted, and close contact services will also be halted. Mixing between households in private homes will also be forbidden. Interesting to see how this plays out.
https://menafn.com/1100970167/Northern- ... ll-it-work
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:05 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Northern Ireland has gone under a circuit breaker lockdown for four weeks to try and prevent a full lockdown. Bars and restaurants will be closed, indoor amateur sports will be halted, and close contact services will also be halted. Mixing between households in private homes will also be forbidden. Interesting to see how this plays out.
https://menafn.com/1100970167/Northern- ... ll-it-work


This is similar to The Netherlands and Belgium.
The problem is that if schools remain open, there is no slowing down the spread and these measures are going to result in many business failures with barely any benefits.

I wonder if there is an underlying strategy to launch the students far enough into the school year ie the fall holidays, before locking schools down, to avoid a high rate of drop-outs.
But for that thesis to hold, politicians would have to be better than clowns. If they were, it wouldn't have come to this in the first place.
So it looks like once again, they don't know what they're doing.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:11 pm

Wales is going on a firebreak lockdown starting on Friday that will last until November 9 and people will only be allowed to go out for valid reasons. Non essential businesses will be closed and micing between households will be forbidden.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co ... s-54598136
 
94717
Posts: 2789
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:12 pm

It actually looks like Spain getting the increase and death to stagnate...

Czech Reåublic and eastern states seems to get a very bad winter;

What can we read from those numbers?

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?ar ... ues=deaths
 
bennett123
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:04 pm

Easy to say, but how do get people to do it?.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:55 pm

The Netherlands' RedTeam, a panel of experts, is now advising their government to implement a short, strict lockdown.

https://nos.nl/liveblog/2353277-redteam ... -hulp.html
 
FGITD
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:00 am

What's incredible is the superiority complex that somehow developed...

No one ever denied there would be a second wave, nor was it some bold prediction by you that faced ridicule and doubt.

What was universally ridiculed was your idea that somehow every human could just go out and buy 3 months worth of supplies and then stay home. Disregarding the millions who still have to work to keep society functioning, the shortages that would follow, etc.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:00 am

Good luck to everyone in the Northern Hemishphere. Stay safe and I hope you all stay well.

At the current rate, COVID-19 should be effectively wiped out in the community in New Zealand and Australia by Christmas.
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ArchGuy1
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:04 am

Kent350787 wrote:
Good luck to everyone in the Northern Hemishphere. Stay safe and I hope you all stay well.

At the current rate, COVID-19 should be effectively wiped out in the community in New Zealand and Australia by Christmas.

Will they become COVID-19 free because of warmer temperatures?
 
Kent350787
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:55 am

[threeid][/threeid]
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
Good luck to everyone in the Northern Hemishphere. Stay safe and I hope you all stay well.

At the current rate, COVID-19 should be effectively wiped out in the community in New Zealand and Australia by Christmas.

Will they become COVID-19 free because of warmer temperatures?


No. High testing with active tracing of contacts of positive cases, and monitored isolation. In my state, locations positive cases have visited are communicated widely within a couple of hours, with advice whether others there are considered close contacts (immediately test and isolate) or casual contacts (actively monitor for symptoms)

The state of Victoria has been in lockdown for several months after a huge spike in cases to over 20,000 total) - 80% of the National cases and 90% deaths), but now has around 100 active cases and daily new cases between zero and five in the last week.

Both Australia and NZ have had compulsory 14 day hotel quarantine for returned travellers since March.

We should be able to have a Covid-free bubble of 30 million people within weeks and then can slowly manage safely opening to the rest of the world
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offloaded
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:33 pm

Algarve, southern Portugal here. Very few cases, but for 5 days covering this forthcoming long weekend plus day either side of it, movement outside your county (conselho) is restricted. This is a national restriction. Apart from that, bars (must serve food if you want to sit outside) and restaurants at least in our area can operate normally up to 50% capacity and have to be closed by 10pm. Mostly they are trying to keep restrictions somewhat limited because they know if they lockdown on the same scale as the first time, it's game over for thousands of small businesses already teetering. Portugal isn't throwing much lifeline money to businesses like some countries are.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:23 am

Hopefully with Biden and progressives in control we will see a 6 week lockdown To help slow the spread of COVID19. We have anti science people at the White House now so we can expect to see this continue to spiral out of control. We will need a lockdown with fines to get this mess under control in the US.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:52 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
Hopefully with Biden and progressives in control we will see a 6 week lockdown To help slow the spread of COVID19. We have anti science people at the White House now so we can expect to see this continue to spiral out of control. We will need a lockdown with fines to get this mess under control in the US.

What would be the point? By the time Biden would be sworn in on January 20th, it's more than likely a successful vaccine candidate will already be rolling out.
 
santi319
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:58 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
Hopefully with Biden and progressives in control we will see a 6 week lockdown To help slow the spread of COVID19. We have anti science people at the White House now so we can expect to see this continue to spiral out of control. We will need a lockdown with fines to get this mess under control in the US.

Lockdowns do NOT work, I dont understand why the world insists on this. A real lockdown like Wuhan works. A semi lockdown like the ones Europe and America did are pointless.

Check this commentary https://www.hoover.org/research/doctor-scott-atlas-and-efficacy-lockdowns-social-distancing-and-closings

I dont understand what part of either everyone stays home, or no one does. Walmart, the jogging trail and your uber eats driver are not really inmune to Covid..

Shut it all down and literally PAUSE the nation or do not shut down. Its unfair and dangerous for millions of people that cannot really live like this.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:33 am

santi319 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Hopefully with Biden and progressives in control we will see a 6 week lockdown To help slow the spread of COVID19. We have anti science people at the White House now so we can expect to see this continue to spiral out of control. We will need a lockdown with fines to get this mess under control in the US.

Lockdowns do NOT work, I dont understand why the world insists on this/quote]

Victoria Australia (about the same size but half a million more people than Minnesota) has reduced its caseload from almost 20,000 to 155 active cases via a closing borders and a quite restrictive lockdown.

But I do agree that this type of control is unlikely to be successful in the USA, where the virus has been allowed to spread with limited active control in large parts of the country.
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94717
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:36 am

Sweden will not do lockdown.

But 4 weeks ago restaurants bars etc had people now most of them are quit empty.

Authorizies start to veryfy social distancing much more strict since a few days back.

Stockholm region and Skåne / Scania has fast increasing numbers of cases. Scania still has much lower yhen the neighbouring copenhagen but denmark is closing it borders again.

Norway and finland never opened...
 
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c933103
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:43 am

Hong Kong claim no new local cases three days in a row.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:57 am

olle wrote:
Sweden will not do lockdown.

But 4 weeks ago restaurants bars etc had people now most of them are quit empty.

Authorizies start to veryfy social distancing much more strict since a few days back.

Stockholm region and Skåne / Scania has fast increasing numbers of cases. Scania still has much lower yhen the neighbouring copenhagen but denmark is closing it borders again.

Norway and finland never opened...


From what I understand a full lockdown (= forbid everyone from being outside) would violate Swedish law.
This obviously dont apply to people with confirmed infektion.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
94717
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:02 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
olle wrote:
Sweden will not do lockdown.

But 4 weeks ago restaurants bars etc had people now most of them are quit empty.

Authorizies start to veryfy social distancing much more strict since a few days back.

Stockholm region and Skåne / Scania has fast increasing numbers of cases. Scania still has much lower yhen the neighbouring copenhagen but denmark is closing it borders again.

Norway and finland never opened...


From what I understand a full lockdown (= forbid everyone from being outside) would violate Swedish law.
This obviously dont apply to people with confirmed infektion.


Even there is strong restrictions what the central government can do and what need to be executed locally in no war time period.

Sweden perhaps is the most decentralized country in the world with the closest relationship between the citizen and who actually desire how to use a major part of the budget effecting that citizen on daily basis.
 
94717
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:09 pm

Still Sweden has a strange curve of number of dead.

Number of cases follows Denmark and Germany now during the second wave but number of dead still going down;

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?ar ... ues=deaths
 
Zeppi
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:58 am

LabQuest wrote:
There's not going to be another shutdown.


That didn't age well.

Signed - Most of Europe

Funny how most polititians even just a couple of weeks ago here in Germany were touting the very same line over and over. But it was evident with people behaving as dumb as they did that it could very easily happen. And here we are, infection numbers and hospital admissions skyrocketing again...
 
tommy1808
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:27 am

Zeppi wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
There's not going to be another shutdown.


That didn't age well.

Signed - Most of Europe

Funny how most polititians even just a couple of weeks ago here in Germany were touting the very same line over and over..


actually the line was "We will try everything to avoid another shutdown", not "there won´t be one".

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Zeppi
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:32 am

tommy1808 wrote:
actually the line was "We will try everything to avoid another shutdown", not "there won´t be one".


It was the line of Altmaier in September, I just remeber this interview: https://www.pnp.de/nachrichten/politik/ ... 80482.html

By the end of September the narrative changed to "we will try everything to avoid another shutdown" indeed, by mid October "we have to consider the possibility of another shutdown" and now, well, yes :lol:

IMHO it was a grevious error to open borders for travel again after the first one, the EU should've acted in unison to minimize spread over the summer. That way we had multiple small clusters everywhere just waiting to explode come autumn. Also this shutdown will very likely not cause a big impact on the spread, as long as schools and stores remain open. I say we'll see a slowdown of maybe 20-30% but that won't make a big dent in the overall growth rate which will still be well exponential. We shall see...
 
marcelh
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:03 am

olle wrote:
Still Sweden has a strange curve of number of dead.

Number of cases follows Denmark and Germany now during the second wave but number of dead still going down;

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?ar ... ues=deaths


Social distancing is relatively easy in Sweden, so there will be less infections and deaths. Population density in Sweden is about 1/10 compared to Germany.
 
bennett123
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:20 am

How does the percentage in urban areas compare?.

That is the real key.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:00 am

marcelh wrote:

Social distancing is relatively easy in Sweden, so there will be less infections and deaths. Population density in Sweden is about 1/10 compared to Germany.


Not entirely correct as a large part of northern half of Sweden is more or less uninhabitated.

https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befolkningst%C3%A4thet
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ensity.gif

https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/arti ... -arjeplog/
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
LabQuest
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:36 pm

Zeppi wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
There's not going to be another shutdown.


That didn't age well.

Signed - Most of Europe

Funny how most polititians even just a couple of weeks ago here in Germany were touting the very same line over and over. But it was evident with people behaving as dumb as they did that it could very easily happen. And here we are, infection numbers and hospital admissions skyrocketing again...


I was referring to the USA. There's too much political pressure to do a full shutdown again. Cities maybe but nothing like what we saw at the beginning of the year.
 
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par13del
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:00 pm

What needs to take place is work place identification, have pollsters visit the pubs, bars, restaurants etc. and identify the sectors of the economy where those persons work, once identified, those business's can be removed from any restrictions to allow those folks to have a normal live. The same should be done for all those who advocate no restrictions whatsoever, those who disagree can stay home and live with the restrictions until.....
It makes no sense to have those who disagree leading the narrative because they are the vocal minority, it does show where the statement about silence comes from.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:40 am

As Fall goes into Winter in the USA we are seeing major increases in Covid-19 infection rates, hospitalization and death numbers. The NYC metro area is seeing new spikes. Nebraska, North & South Dakota, Utah and Texas.are hot spots seeing hospital ICU's at capacity.

Sadly things are going badly. There is the fatigue and rebellion as to following public health advisories. The need for face to face contact with people for their mental health. The upcoming Thanksgiving, Christmas and other seasonal holidays with their usual in person celebrations and stress from not being able to do so.The real fear of more job and business losses, The pandemic in a Presidential election year and a President who has severely failed to deal with it. Schools and colleges attempting to be in session, the problems with 'distance' on-line learning. The need to prevent the collapse of the economy, the costs of trying to keep things going and people alive, certain politicians holding hostage relief monies.for selfish and obscene political reasons and demands. That people will not accept another Spring shutdown as too severe and disruptive in their lives.

We have reached a tipping point before hopefully 2 months from a vaccine to start to be distributed. We must use and respect public health mitigation tactics like masks, distancing, no group activities, or face 10's of 1000's more deaths, likely reaching over 300,000 in the USA by the end of the year.
 
bennett123
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:49 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-54745196

The video at 11:06 is an area about to go into Tier 3 restrictions.

Unless people start taking COVID seriously then we will all be in lockdown by Christmas.

Just hope that the hospitals can cope.
 
Toenga
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:58 am

Lockdowns are not a strategy.
They are merely a potent tool to reduce infection rates to a level that other elements within an overall strategy can become effective, such as regaining hospital ICU capacity, or here in Australasia, along with border quarantine, contact tracing, testing, and supervised isolation can sustain a R value of considerably less then unity, leading to our local elimination. Under a strategy the duration of lockdowns should not based on relaxing by a certain date, but solely on getting transmission rates down to a predetermined level, that the other control measures within the strategy can at least maintain stability, ie R level of unity or below.
If there is no coherent plan to maintain the reduced level of transmission after lockdown, lockdowns are merely an adhoc, shortlived political, not health, reaction to a crisis and are doomed to fail.
What next after lockdown? This is the question that should be on everybody's mind and deserves to be answered by your governments.
A problem with lockdowns is that community resistance does lead to reduced potency over time.
 
astuteman
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:33 am

bennett123 wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-54745196

The video at 11:06 is an area about to go into Tier 3 restrictions.

Unless people start taking COVID seriously then we will all be in lockdown by Christmas.

Just hope that the hospitals can cope.


Make that next week ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54756950

perhaps....

I tend to side with those who say that partial lockdowns are the worst of both worlds.
Schoolkids and students might not be particularly vulnerable, but the > 1 people they infect may very well be.
And the longer it goes on, the harder it is for the kids not to give grandpa and nana a hug ...

For those living in the southern hemisphere, all I will say is - don't be too complacent until you have got into the depths of winter there...

Rgds
 
94717
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:09 am

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
marcelh wrote:

Social distancing is relatively easy in Sweden, so there will be less infections and deaths. Population density in Sweden is about 1/10 compared to Germany.


Not entirely correct as a large part of northern half of Sweden is more or less uninhabitated.

https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befolkningst%C3%A4thet
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ensity.gif

https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/arti ... -arjeplog/


Sweden is in reality 2 countries in this perspective. Southe can be compared to Denmark, northern Germany and north has more in common with great part of Finland Norway.

Right now the development in Sweden are comparable with Denmark and Germany with equal number of cases and a little bit better number of dead per day.

But it is worse then Finland and Norway even if Norway go up fast as well. Both Norway and Finland would be forbidden to visit by their own rules by now.
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:30 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
Hopefully with Biden and progressives in control we will see a 6 week lockdown To help slow the spread of COVID19. We have anti science people at the White House now so we can expect to see this continue to spiral out of control. We will need a lockdown with fines to get this mess under control in the US.

I'm currently in the UK. I realize every country has their own way of doing things, but if they tried to implement some of these rules in the US I think its safe to say it would be viewed as gross government overreach. Currently its illegal here to simply meet up with anyone that you don't live with, and I just can't imagine being threatened with fines over something like that back home. Other countries in Europe now have curfews where you're not allowed to be outside of your home overnight. Unless it gets to the point where people really are being left to die because there aren't enough resources available to care for them, such policies would cause an uproar and many would refuse to follow the rules.

At this point, it seems pretty clear to me that there's only a few ways to keep the case numbers down at negligible levels: 1.) Rolling draconian lockdowns 2.) Vaccine 3.) Wait for the pandemic to run its course and peter out. I'm also not convinced by those that say "Well, we just need more people to wear masks!". Are there really huge swaths of people that are completely disobeying the public health guidelines? When it comes to wearing masks or the social distancing stuff, its not realistic to expect 100% of people to follow that 100% of the time. Furthermore, I question the efficacy of some of these "masks" that some people wear like bandanas and neck gaiters. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with something like this that's very contagious it can only be controlled with a huge cost to society.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:36 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Zeppi wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
There's not going to be another shutdown.


That didn't age well.

Signed - Most of Europe

Funny how most polititians even just a couple of weeks ago here in Germany were touting the very same line over and over. But it was evident with people behaving as dumb as they did that it could very easily happen. And here we are, infection numbers and hospital admissions skyrocketing again...


I was referring to the USA. There's too much political pressure to do a full shutdown again. Cities maybe but nothing like what we saw at the beginning of the year.


There was a lockdown in the US ? Nobody noticed...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:37 pm

par13del wrote:
What needs to take place is work place identification, have pollsters visit the pubs, bars, restaurants etc. and identify the sectors of the economy where those persons work, once identified, those business's can be removed from any restrictions to allow those folks to have a normal live. The same should be done for all those who advocate no restrictions whatsoever, those who disagree can stay home and live with the restrictions until.....
It makes no sense to have those who disagree leading the narrative because they are the vocal minority, it does show where the statement about silence comes from.


You identify them and then what ? Surely you make them sign a discharge, so that they won't be admitted by hospitals under any circumstance, otherwise what's the point ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3382
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:07 pm

Aesma wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Zeppi wrote:

That didn't age well.

Signed - Most of Europe

Funny how most polititians even just a couple of weeks ago here in Germany were touting the very same line over and over. But it was evident with people behaving as dumb as they did that it could very easily happen. And here we are, infection numbers and hospital admissions skyrocketing again...


I was referring to the USA. There's too much political pressure to do a full shutdown again. Cities maybe but nothing like what we saw at the beginning of the year.


There was a lockdown in the US ? Nobody noticed...

There certainly was. Some 90% of the population was under stay-at-home restrictions in March-May with all non-essential businesses shuttered. Not as strict as the Spanish or Italian restrictions, but still...
 
ArchGuy1
Topic Author
Posts: 1909
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:14 pm

mke717spotter wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Hopefully with Biden and progressives in control we will see a 6 week lockdown To help slow the spread of COVID19. We have anti science people at the White House now so we can expect to see this continue to spiral out of control. We will need a lockdown with fines to get this mess under control in the US.

I'm currently in the UK. I realize every country has their own way of doing things, but if they tried to implement some of these rules in the US I think its safe to say it would be viewed as gross government overreach. Currently its illegal here to simply meet up with anyone that you don't live with, and I just can't imagine being threatened with fines over something like that back home. Other countries in Europe now have curfews where you're not allowed to be outside of your home overnight. Unless it gets to the point where people really are being left to die because there aren't enough resources available to care for them, such policies would cause an uproar and many would refuse to follow the rules.

At this point, it seems pretty clear to me that there's only a few ways to keep the case numbers down at negligible levels: 1.) Rolling draconian lockdowns 2.) Vaccine 3.) Wait for the pandemic to run its course and peter out. I'm also not convinced by those that say "Well, we just need more people to wear masks!". Are there really huge swaths of people that are completely disobeying the public health guidelines? When it comes to wearing masks or the social distancing stuff, its not realistic to expect 100% of people to follow that 100% of the time. Furthermore, I question the efficacy of some of these "masks" that some people wear like bandanas and neck gaiters. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with something like this that's very contagious it can only be controlled with a huge cost to society.

What part of the UK do you live in?
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 310
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:31 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
Good luck to everyone in the Northern Hemishphere. Stay safe and I hope you all stay well.

At the current rate, COVID-19 should be effectively wiped out in the community in New Zealand and Australia by Christmas.

Will they become COVID-19 free because of warmer temperatures?


New Zealand is a country of small island that is easy to shutdown and make sure no one can enter. Very easy to contain there.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:47 pm

ltbewr wrote:
As Fall goes into Winter in the USA we are seeing major increases in Covid-19 infection rates, hospitalization and death numbers. The NYC metro area is seeing new spikes. Nebraska, North & South Dakota, Utah and Texas.are hot spots seeing hospital ICU's at capacity.

Sadly things are going badly. There is the fatigue and rebellion as to following public health advisories. The need for face to face contact with people for their mental health. The upcoming Thanksgiving, Christmas and other seasonal holidays with their usual in person celebrations and stress from not being able to do so.The real fear of more job and business losses, The pandemic in a Presidential election year and a President who has severely failed to deal with it. Schools and colleges attempting to be in session, the problems with 'distance' on-line learning. The need to prevent the collapse of the economy, the costs of trying to keep things going and people alive, certain politicians holding hostage relief monies.for selfish and obscene political reasons and demands. That people will not accept another Spring shutdown as too severe and disruptive in their lives.

We have reached a tipping point before hopefully 2 months from a vaccine to start to be distributed. We must use and respect public health mitigation tactics like masks, distancing, no group activities, or face 10's of 1000's more deaths, likely reaching over 300,000 in the USA by the end of the year.


The government should subsidize free grocery delivery for the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Those people should stay in their homes with no visits. Everyone else get back to normal. If you want to stay in your home then fine, no one can make you leave.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:09 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
As Fall goes into Winter in the USA we are seeing major increases in Covid-19 infection rates, hospitalization and death numbers. The NYC metro area is seeing new spikes. Nebraska, North & South Dakota, Utah and Texas.are hot spots seeing hospital ICU's at capacity.

Sadly things are going badly. There is the fatigue and rebellion as to following public health advisories. The need for face to face contact with people for their mental health. The upcoming Thanksgiving, Christmas and other seasonal holidays with their usual in person celebrations and stress from not being able to do so.The real fear of more job and business losses, The pandemic in a Presidential election year and a President who has severely failed to deal with it. Schools and colleges attempting to be in session, the problems with 'distance' on-line learning. The need to prevent the collapse of the economy, the costs of trying to keep things going and people alive, certain politicians holding hostage relief monies.for selfish and obscene political reasons and demands. That people will not accept another Spring shutdown as too severe and disruptive in their lives.

We have reached a tipping point before hopefully 2 months from a vaccine to start to be distributed. We must use and respect public health mitigation tactics like masks, distancing, no group activities, or face 10's of 1000's more deaths, likely reaching over 300,000 in the USA by the end of the year.


The government should subsidize free grocery delivery for the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Those people should stay in their homes with no visits. Everyone else get back to normal. If you want to stay in your home then fine, no one can make you leave.

Very simplistic view. A lot of people “going back to normal” will have COVID and will have health issues.
 
M564038
Posts: 622
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:49 pm

olle wrote:
Sweden will not do lockdown.

But 4 weeks ago restaurants bars etc had people now most of them are quit empty.

Authorizies start to veryfy social distancing much more strict since a few days back.

Stockholm region and Skåne / Scania has fast increasing numbers of cases. Scania still has much lower yhen the neighbouring copenhagen but denmark is closing it borders again.

Norway and finland never opened...


But Norway has had less measures in place than sweden since May. We werr successful this spring and had 1/10 the cases of sweden because we started the distancing earlier, swifter and slightly stricter than sweden. We opened to most of the world during summer(except the extreme countries) with much less strict rules and recommandations than sweden, and remain semi-open, although we are seeing a spike in cases at the moment, so this time we are trying masks recommended for the first time, as a method of not having to close schools.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2953
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:04 pm

marcelh wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
As Fall goes into Winter in the USA we are seeing major increases in Covid-19 infection rates, hospitalization and death numbers. The NYC metro area is seeing new spikes. Nebraska, North & South Dakota, Utah and Texas.are hot spots seeing hospital ICU's at capacity.

Sadly things are going badly. There is the fatigue and rebellion as to following public health advisories. The need for face to face contact with people for their mental health. The upcoming Thanksgiving, Christmas and other seasonal holidays with their usual in person celebrations and stress from not being able to do so.The real fear of more job and business losses, The pandemic in a Presidential election year and a President who has severely failed to deal with it. Schools and colleges attempting to be in session, the problems with 'distance' on-line learning. The need to prevent the collapse of the economy, the costs of trying to keep things going and people alive, certain politicians holding hostage relief monies.for selfish and obscene political reasons and demands. That people will not accept another Spring shutdown as too severe and disruptive in their lives.

We have reached a tipping point before hopefully 2 months from a vaccine to start to be distributed. We must use and respect public health mitigation tactics like masks, distancing, no group activities, or face 10's of 1000's more deaths, likely reaching over 300,000 in the USA by the end of the year.


The government should subsidize free grocery delivery for the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Those people should stay in their homes with no visits. Everyone else get back to normal. If you want to stay in your home then fine, no one can make you leave.

Very simplistic view. A lot of people “going back to normal” will have COVID and will have health issues.


The interests of the majority must be upheld. The majority will have zero issues if they catch the virus. We tried the lockdown. It didn't work. We've worn the masks which they swore would work. Apparently they don't work very well either or you wouldn't see Europe shutting down again. Europeans are far more eager to please their government than Americans so I'm guessing that mask use was pretty much 100%.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3382
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:52 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
marcelh wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

The government should subsidize free grocery delivery for the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Those people should stay in their homes with no visits. Everyone else get back to normal. If you want to stay in your home then fine, no one can make you leave.

Very simplistic view. A lot of people “going back to normal” will have COVID and will have health issues.


The interests of the majority must be upheld. The majority will have zero issues if they catch the virus. We tried the lockdown. It didn't work. We've worn the masks which they swore would work. Apparently they don't work very well either or you wouldn't see Europe shutting down again. Europeans are far more eager to please their government than Americans so I'm guessing that mask use was pretty much 100%.

No that's actually not true. I don't know how this idea that Europeans became such diligent mask-wearers became so profligate here, but the fact is that mask-wearing is probably more ubiquitous in the US than in Europe despite our sizable contingent of science deniers here. For example, Amsterdam did not even begin considering extending their mask mandate beyond public transportation until well into their second wave. Similar trajectory in France. It's pretty evident as well now that Europeans aren't exactly the rule-following angels many (including myself if I'm being honest) thought them to be earlier this summer.
 
cpd
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:30 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
As Fall goes into Winter in the USA we are seeing major increases in Covid-19 infection rates, hospitalization and death numbers. The NYC metro area is seeing new spikes. Nebraska, North & South Dakota, Utah and Texas.are hot spots seeing hospital ICU's at capacity.

Sadly things are going badly. There is the fatigue and rebellion as to following public health advisories. The need for face to face contact with people for their mental health. The upcoming Thanksgiving, Christmas and other seasonal holidays with their usual in person celebrations and stress from not being able to do so.The real fear of more job and business losses, The pandemic in a Presidential election year and a President who has severely failed to deal with it. Schools and colleges attempting to be in session, the problems with 'distance' on-line learning. The need to prevent the collapse of the economy, the costs of trying to keep things going and people alive, certain politicians holding hostage relief monies.for selfish and obscene political reasons and demands. That people will not accept another Spring shutdown as too severe and disruptive in their lives.

We have reached a tipping point before hopefully 2 months from a vaccine to start to be distributed. We must use and respect public health mitigation tactics like masks, distancing, no group activities, or face 10's of 1000's more deaths, likely reaching over 300,000 in the USA by the end of the year.


The government should subsidize free grocery delivery for the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Those people should stay in their homes with no visits. Everyone else get back to normal. If you want to stay in your home then fine, no one can make you leave.


And will you be back to normal if you get COVID and those long haul side effects, or effects you don’t recover from?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:43 pm

President Macron said in his speech that applying the rules to some people and not others according to age/illnesses would probably be unconstitutional, and would at least need some political debate first, which there is no time to do right now. Another issue is that many elderly people are cared for by younger ones, so how do you deal with that ? Already it's something complicated, for example my family had to terminate the contract of a woman taking care of an uncle because she caught COVID and took months to recover, so we had to hire someone else.

I know my parents would be OK to be totally locked down (then again they have a house with a big garden), but some of their similarly aged brothers/sisters aren't going to take it well.

flyguy89 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

I was referring to the USA. There's too much political pressure to do a full shutdown again. Cities maybe but nothing like what we saw at the beginning of the year.


There was a lockdown in the US ? Nobody noticed...

There certainly was. Some 90% of the population was under stay-at-home restrictions in March-May with all non-essential businesses shuttered. Not as strict as the Spanish or Italian restrictions, but still...


What happened if you didn't stay at home ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
LabQuest
Posts: 233
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:46 pm

Aesma wrote:
President Macron said in his speech that applying the rules to some people and not others according to age/illnesses would probably be unconstitutional, and would at least need some political debate first, which there is no time to do right now. Another issue is that many elderly people are cared for by younger ones, so how do you deal with that ? Already it's something complicated, for example my family had to terminate the contract of a woman taking care of an uncle because she caught COVID and took months to recover, so we had to hire someone else.

I know my parents would be OK to be totally locked down (then again they have a house with a big garden), but some of their similarly aged brothers/sisters aren't going to take it well.

flyguy89 wrote:
Aesma wrote:

There was a lockdown in the US ? Nobody noticed...

There certainly was. Some 90% of the population was under stay-at-home restrictions in March-May with all non-essential businesses shuttered. Not as strict as the Spanish or Italian restrictions, but still...


What happened if you didn't stay at home ?


Nothing.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:43 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
marcelh wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

The government should subsidize free grocery delivery for the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Those people should stay in their homes with no visits. Everyone else get back to normal. If you want to stay in your home then fine, no one can make you leave.

Very simplistic view. A lot of people “going back to normal” will have COVID and will have health issues.


The interests of the majority must be upheld. The majority will have zero issues if they catch the virus. We tried the lockdown. It didn't work. We've worn the masks which they swore would work. Apparently they don't work very well either or you wouldn't see Europe shutting down again. Europeans are far more eager to please their government than Americans so I'm guessing that mask use was pretty much 100%.


You’re looking at the wrong examples of mask use because many Europeans have obviously been noncompliant. Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Thailand and Vietnam are doing far better than European countries. Why? Mask compliance.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2953
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Re: Possibly of Everything Closing Down Across Northern Hemisphere in Fall 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:18 am

Aaron747 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Very simplistic view. A lot of people “going back to normal” will have COVID and will have health issues.


The interests of the majority must be upheld. The majority will have zero issues if they catch the virus. We tried the lockdown. It didn't work. We've worn the masks which they swore would work. Apparently they don't work very well either or you wouldn't see Europe shutting down again. Europeans are far more eager to please their government than Americans so I'm guessing that mask use was pretty much 100%.


You’re looking at the wrong examples of mask use because many Europeans have obviously been noncompliant. Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Thailand and Vietnam are doing far better than European countries. Why? Mask compliance.


Those cultures have high compliance because of their respect for authority. But that creates other problems like Korean Air still crashing planes long after CRM was adopted because of scared FO's who won't question the captain. It isn't all happy happy joy joy.
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