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MaverickM11
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Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:45 am

Still waiting on more confirmation but I would not be surprised from this administration:

"“Recently, a detained immigrant told Project South that she talked to five different women detained at ICDC between October and December 2019 who had a hysterectomy done,” the complaint stated. “When she talked to them about the surgery, the women ‘reacted confused when explaining why they had one done.’ The woman told Project South that it was as though the women were ‘trying to tell themselves it’s going to be OK.’”"

"According to Wooten, ICDC consistently used a particular gynecologist – outside the facility – who almost always opted to remove all or part of the uterus of his female detainee patients.

“Everybody he sees has a hysterectomy—just about everybody,” Wooten said, adding that, “everybody’s uterus cannot be that bad.”"

‘Like an Experimental Concentration Camp’: Whistleblower Complaint Alleges Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/li ... on-center/
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Aaron747
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:17 am

But...I thought Dems were the ones giving free healthcare to immigrants? Odd that some folks here were mentioning Dr Mengele the other day...this seems much closer to that than mask requirements. :sarcastic:
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tommy1808
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:03 am

Aaron747 wrote:
But...I thought Dems were the ones giving free healthcare to immigrants? Odd that some folks here were mentioning Dr Mengele the other day...this seems much closer to that than mask requirements. :sarcastic:


before the Nazi´s decided to murder all Jews the plan was to "just" round them up, put them in some inhospitable place, sterilize them all and just let nature run its cause. So you may be a lot closer to that doctors reasoning than you may think...

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:32 am

This is why, despite the superficial antics, the CCP loves Trump so much.
He is the closest thing to a dictator the World's most prominent democracy has ever had. He emulates them and, to dictatorships around the globe, provides the argument that democracy is flawed and no better than the tough regimes they lead, justifying their necessities and total power in the eyes of their citizens.

Why would China take threats about their Uyghur concentration camps seriously if the US does essentially the same?.... and sadly, they have a point. The same went with the way the current administration handled the recent protests, after having criticized Beijing for their similar (probably event less violent and messy) handling of the protest movement in HK.

Too many people underestimate the extreme threat that Trumps poses to democracy not just in the US, but the World at large, and how much of a destabilizing effect he is having on the whole planet, with potentially catastrophic consequences.

No wonder Trump hates those who fought and gave their lives to protect freedom 80 years ago. It is simply not a World order he believes in...
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:57 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
"“Recently, a detained immigrant told Project South that she talked to five different women detained at ICDC between October and December 2019 who had a hysterectomy done,” the complaint stated. “When she talked to them about the surgery, the women ‘reacted confused when explaining why they had one done.’ The woman told Project South that it was as though the women were ‘trying to tell themselves it’s going to be OK.’”"

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/li ... on-center/

Do we have any ages for the FIVE women detainees?
i.e. did these hysterectomies affect their ability to bear children, or were some/all of them beyond normal child-bearing age?
(or had five kids already and didn't want any more...)

I'm not saying hysterectomys should be performed for fun, but we should guard against hysterical reactions.

wikipedia wrote:
Hysterectomy is the second most common major surgery among women in the United States (the first is cesarean section). In the 1980s and 1990s, this statistic was the source of concern among some consumer rights groups and puzzlement among the medical community,

According to the National Center for Health Statistics, ... 617,000 hysterectomies performed in 2004,

In the United States, 1 in 3 women can be expected to have a hysterectomy by age 60.

There are currently an estimated 22 million women in the United States who have undergone this procedure.

Such rates being highest in the industrialized world has led to the controversy that hysterectomies are being largely performed for unwarranted reasons.
This problem could be way wider than just ICE detention centers!

"According to Wooten, ICDC consistently used a particular gynecologist – outside the facility – who almost always opted to remove all or part of the uterus of his female detainee patients.

“Everybody he sees has a hysterectomy—just about everybody,” Wooten said, adding that, “everybody’s uterus cannot be that bad.”"
Are we still talking about five cases? Five women who were referred to a gynaecologist presumably because they had some kind of problem already? :scratchchin:
Maybe they are the lucky ones, getting referred to a gynaecologist at the government's expense?
How many women amongst the "free" population can afford this level of healthcare?

Perhaps this gynaecologist opts for hysterectomies across a large range of patients, not just detainees? We really need more information (and maybe more than five cases)

MaverickM11 wrote:
Still waiting on more confirmation.. [ :checkmark: ].

Of course, some others here will be more than happy to run with what little we have got already. :roll:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:12 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
"“Recently, a detained immigrant told Project South that she talked to five different women detained at ICDC between October and December 2019 who had a hysterectomy done,” the complaint stated. “When she talked to them about the surgery, the women ‘reacted confused when explaining why they had one done.’ The woman told Project South that it was as though the women were ‘trying to tell themselves it’s going to be OK.’”"

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/li ... on-center/

Do we have any ages for the FIVE women detainees?
i.e. did these hysterectomies affect their ability to bear children, or were some/all of them beyond normal child-bearing age?
(or had five kids already and didn't want any more...)

I'm not saying hysterectomys should be performed for fun, but we should guard against hysterical reactions.
:


Isn't the absolute only relevant question if they consented to the procedure or not?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:03 pm

Please discuss the topic without resorting to whataboutism flamebait. If you can't debate the topic itself, then your comment isn't exactly contributing anything.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:56 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Isn't the absolute only relevant question if they consented to the procedure or not?

No.
If you (the patient) are relying on the doctor to provide you with proper medical advice, and they fail, then you might give your consent.
That doesn't make it right.

Most of us trust medical professionals to act in our best interests.

I cannot look at an X-ray and work out what's going on.
And even after a doctor has explained the reasons why something needs to be done, not everybody understands.
And in some cases, ignorance is bliss.
So giving consent to a procedure is often a mere formality, and is based on trust.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:30 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
So giving consent to a procedure is often a mere formality, and is based on trust.


it is a required formality. Without consent it becomes a crime. Pretty simple actually.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
bennett123
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:00 am

I think that the issue is not consent, but valid consent.

So if the patients were not clear why the procedures were appropriate for them, further enquires are needed.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:05 am

bennett123 wrote:
I think that the issue is not consent, but valid consent.


that is sort of redundant... only a valid consent is a consent....

further enquires are needed.


very much so.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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seb146
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:39 am

bennett123 wrote:
I think that the issue is not consent, but valid consent.

So if the patients were not clear why the procedures were appropriate for them, further enquires are needed.


"well, I mean... she didn't say no like no but she just kinda was there so it was consent"

nope.

This is a violation of a person's body. Rape. No other way around it. No excusing it, no whataboutism. These procedures were forced.

Why are these forced procedures fine but a consenting woman deciding on her own that she can not carry a fetus to term should be against the law?
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tommy1808
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:57 am

seb146 wrote:
Why are these forced procedures fine but a consenting woman deciding on her own that she can not carry a fetus to term should be against the law?


because a man decided.... obviously.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:45 am

seb146 wrote:
These procedures were forced.

You seem absolutely certain of this. No ifs, no buts.
Care to elaborate or provide telling quotes?
(that is a genuine invitation, not a suggestion they don't exist)

“When she talked to them about the surgery, the women ‘reacted confused when explaining why they had one done.’
That is unfortunate, but not much of a smoking gun. Gently smouldering, maybe.

I'm looking for more than that.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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seb146
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:23 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
seb146 wrote:
These procedures were forced.

You seem absolutely certain of this. No ifs, no buts.
Care to elaborate or provide telling quotes?
(that is a genuine invitation, not a suggestion they don't exist)

“When she talked to them about the surgery, the women ‘reacted confused when explaining why they had one done.’
That is unfortunate, but not much of a smoking gun. Gently smouldering, maybe.

I'm looking for more than that.


Because they could not understand why this was done to them. That is how I read that. Why would a perfectly healthy woman have a hysterectomy? Was this a condition to be let into the United States? We have to sterilize you first? It sounds Hitler-ish to me.
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johns624
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:44 pm

seb146 wrote:
Why would a perfectly healthy woman have a hysterectomy?
Do we really know this?
 
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seb146
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:54 pm

johns624 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why would a perfectly healthy woman have a hysterectomy?
Do we really know this?


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54160638

Does it matter? They didn't understand why they were having this procedure. Maybe Republicans can charge ICE with murder because a fetus is a living thing and this was not giving a fetus a chance?

But, seriously, does it matter what age they were if they were put through this procedure for seemingly no reason at all?
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:19 am

seb146 wrote:
These procedures were forced.
Still waiting for something from you that supports your statement.

seb146 wrote:
Why would a perfectly healthy woman have a hysterectomy?
I don't know.
But please be sure to let us know when you find a news article that details this shameful practice, because this aspect is not specified in the current complaint. :roll:

seb146 wrote:
Does it matter? They didn't understand why they were having this procedure.
Maybe, maybe not.
The actual wording is that they ‘reacted confused when explaining why they had one done.’
Or possibly they "reacted confused" when another medical professional (Wooten) started asking difficult questions?
I might also react in a confused way in similar circumstances. I mean... why would one medic question the actions of another? Already I'm worried.

seb146 wrote:
But, seriously, does it matter what age they were....
Fair point, unless you are pushing an agenda such as genocide. Hysterectomies on older women beyond normal child-bearing age is not really going to affect the population numbers, now or in the future.
Maybe there's a clue in the title of the organization promulgating this event?
"Project South: Institute for the Elimination of Poverty and Genocide " Yup, there it is.

seb146 wrote:
.... if they were put through this procedure for seemingly no reason at all?
And there you go again, jumping to conclusions. i.e. "seemingly no reason at all" :roll:
So you can add that to the growing list of things you need to justify.

Ms Wooten alleged that one doctor removed the wrong ovary from a young detainee.
The wrong ovary?
Kinda sounds like there was a right ovary to remove; one that was causing a problem for this "perfectly healthy woman".

Ok, so the doctor made a simple (very stupid) error. Like that's never happened before.

Come on seb, you are way better than this. Your credibility is slipping, and that is a real shame.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:12 am

This is eugenics going on in the United States in 2020. If you think of Nazis educate yourself on what America did in the 1910s and 1920s. It is eugenics full stop. This disgusts me.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:09 pm

No one showed up so I'm sure it's totally fine, otherwise they would surely have calmed everyone's concerns. :roll:

Without DHS Witnesses In Hearing, Whistleblower Claims Likely Go Unaddressed

"Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf rejected a subpoena to appear, but DHS says acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli was prepped in his place.

Majority Democrats on the committee suggested Thursday that the move was an attempt to shield department leadership from facing difficult problems within the sprawling department. (Follow updates on the hearing here.)

One recent story concerns allegations by a whistleblower who says she observed medical neglect of detainees held by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which is part of DHS, as well as what the complainant calls questionable hysterectomies."

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-cover ... kHTiHB2_PU
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bennett123
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:39 pm

I also understood that if you receive a subpoena, then attendance was mandatory.
 
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seb146
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:46 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
seb146 wrote:
These procedures were forced.
Still waiting for something from you that supports your statement.

seb146 wrote:
Why would a perfectly healthy woman have a hysterectomy?
I don't know.
But please be sure to let us know when you find a news article that details this shameful practice, because this aspect is not specified in the current complaint. :roll:

seb146 wrote:
Does it matter? They didn't understand why they were having this procedure.
Maybe, maybe not.
The actual wording is that they ‘reacted confused when explaining why they had one done.’
Or possibly they "reacted confused" when another medical professional (Wooten) started asking difficult questions?
I might also react in a confused way in similar circumstances. I mean... why would one medic question the actions of another? Already I'm worried.

seb146 wrote:
But, seriously, does it matter what age they were....
Fair point, unless you are pushing an agenda such as genocide. Hysterectomies on older women beyond normal child-bearing age is not really going to affect the population numbers, now or in the future.
Maybe there's a clue in the title of the organization promulgating this event?
"Project South: Institute for the Elimination of Poverty and Genocide " Yup, there it is.

seb146 wrote:
.... if they were put through this procedure for seemingly no reason at all?
And there you go again, jumping to conclusions. i.e. "seemingly no reason at all" :roll:
So you can add that to the growing list of things you need to justify.

Ms Wooten alleged that one doctor removed the wrong ovary from a young detainee.
The wrong ovary?
Kinda sounds like there was a right ovary to remove; one that was causing a problem for this "perfectly healthy woman".

Ok, so the doctor made a simple (very stupid) error. Like that's never happened before.

Come on seb, you are way better than this. Your credibility is slipping, and that is a real shame.


https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/91339838 ... ce-detaine

From nearly every article but, specifically, the one linked above

The complaint says that several immigrant women expressed concerns to Project South about a high rate of hysterectomies and that Wooten and other nurses at the facility questioned the number of women undergoing the procedure as well as their ability to fully understand and consent to it.

The immigrant women could not understand why nor consented to these procedures. Could not understand OR CONSENT to these procedures.

I get there are valid reasons why a few would need hysterectomies. No one is questioning that. But, the rate of these procedures, along with women NOT GIVING CONSENT is alarming.

Oh, yeah, these are private, for-profit prisons. LaSalle Corrections is not in the business of justice or helping those in detention. They are in the business of making profits for a few at the top.

So, in short, even one woman not consenting is wrong and bad and illegal. But, more than one said they did not consent.
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hashtagconfused
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:28 pm

seb146 wrote:

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/91339838 ... ce-detaine

From nearly every article but, specifically, the one linked above

The complaint says that several immigrant women expressed concerns to Project South about a high rate of hysterectomies and that Wooten and other nurses at the facility questioned the number of women undergoing the procedure as well as their ability to fully understand and consent to it.

The immigrant women could not understand why nor consented to these procedures. Could not understand OR CONSENT to these procedures.

I get there are valid reasons why a few would need hysterectomies. No one is questioning that. But, the rate of these procedures, along with women NOT GIVING CONSENT is alarming.

Oh, yeah, these are private, for-profit prisons. LaSalle Corrections is not in the business of justice or helping those in detention. They are in the business of making profits for a few at the top.

So, in short, even one woman not consenting is wrong and bad and illegal. But, more than one said they did not consent.


the quote referenced does not say they did not consent. nor is that said in the link provided. it says nurses questioned the women's ability to fully understand and to consent. so it is the opinion of the nurses that the women could not understand and consent. so while it may very well be true, that is not what is being said.

also there is nothing in the articles provided that say the women were perfectly healthy as claimed.
 
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seb146
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:58 pm

hashtagconfused wrote:
seb146 wrote:

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/16/91339838 ... ce-detaine

From nearly every article but, specifically, the one linked above

The complaint says that several immigrant women expressed concerns to Project South about a high rate of hysterectomies and that Wooten and other nurses at the facility questioned the number of women undergoing the procedure as well as their ability to fully understand and consent to it.

The immigrant women could not understand why nor consented to these procedures. Could not understand OR CONSENT to these procedures.

I get there are valid reasons why a few would need hysterectomies. No one is questioning that. But, the rate of these procedures, along with women NOT GIVING CONSENT is alarming.

Oh, yeah, these are private, for-profit prisons. LaSalle Corrections is not in the business of justice or helping those in detention. They are in the business of making profits for a few at the top.

So, in short, even one woman not consenting is wrong and bad and illegal. But, more than one said they did not consent.


the quote referenced does not say they did not consent. nor is that said in the link provided. it says nurses questioned the women's ability to fully understand and to consent. so it is the opinion of the nurses that the women could not understand and consent. so while it may very well be true, that is not what is being said.

also there is nothing in the articles provided that say the women were perfectly healthy as claimed.


Again:

the nurses at this for-profit detention center question whether the immigrant women could even give consent. Go read about the trauma of rape. Many people just play it off. They are shamed into believing they had it coming. They are not victims. That they should not do anything about it. If these women could not understand why they had these procedures done, how could they give consent? Why would a woman who does not know or understand say yes unless she was guilted and shamed and lied to about it?

I am not understanding why this is acceptable. Why is it acceptable to perform this procedure on women who didn't know what was going on?
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:05 pm

seb146 wrote:
....
Enough already with these repeated posts spreading disinformation. Surely this is against forum rules? :scratchchin:

seb146 wrote:
The complaint says that several immigrant women expressed concerns to Project South about a high rate of hysterectomies and that Wooten and other nurses at the facility questioned the number of women undergoing the procedure as well as their ability to fully understand and consent to it.
Perfectly happy with this. :checkmark:

seb146 wrote:
The immigrant women could not understand why nor consented to these procedures. Could not understand OR CONSENT to these procedures.
Nope. And repeating it doesn't make it true.
hashtagconfused wrote:
the quote referenced does not say they did not consent. nor is that said in the link provided. it says nurses questioned the women's ability to fully understand and to consent. so it is the opinion of the nurses that the women could not understand and consent. so while it may very well be true, that is not what is being said.
:checkmark: Hashtag has nailed it. These are ALLEGATIONS that require investigation. Thorough investigation.

I get there are valid reasons why a few would need hysterectomies. But, the rate of these procedures..... is alarming.
And what rate is that? I presume you have access to some numbers. Maybe a full-blown statistical analysis? No? :scratchchin:

The only number I have seen is from ICE stating that only TWO women were referred for hysterectomies since 2018. Two. TWO!

I accept that neither you nor I can know for certain whether that number is correct, so all we can say right now is that there is some disagreement over the numbers, and we need a thorough & open investigation. Don't ya think?

hashtagconfused wrote:
also there is nothing in the articles provided that say the women were perfectly healthy as [seb146] claimed.
The absence of any response from you on specific statements that you [seb] have manufactured, is telling trolling.

seb146 wrote:
Go read about the trauma of rape. Many people just play it off. They are shamed into believing they had it coming. They are not victims. That they should not do anything about it.
Very interesting, but totally OFF-TOPIC

seb146 wrote:
If these women could not understand why they had these procedures done, how could they give consent?
Finally!
Finally you manage that little word that makes such a difference... "IF"
Unfortunately this one sentence from you that makes actual sense, is buried under a plethora of false statements. :roll:

seb146 wrote:
Why is it acceptable to perform this procedure on women who didn't know what was going on?
When you find somebody who is claiming it is acceptable, be sure to let us know. Until then, stop with the disinformation!
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
johns624
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:12 pm

Could the reason that the women couldn't understand or give consent was a lack of education that kept them from knowing what was wrong?
 
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seb146
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:25 pm

johns624 wrote:
Could the reason that the women couldn't understand or give consent was a lack of education that kept them from knowing what was wrong?


Are you suggesting there were no interpreters or are you suggesting that women don't know what to do with their own bodies? There are plenty of American women in American prisons and jails who lack education. What is stopping the government from doing these things to them?
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seb146
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:30 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why is it acceptable to perform this procedure on women who didn't know what was going on?
When you find somebody who is claiming it is acceptable, be sure to let us know. Until then, stop with the disinformation!


YOU are saying it is acceptable. Literally everyone saying "Oh, well" and "so what" are saying it is acceptable. Like those who said "oh, well" and "so what" to children in dog crates, that is a passive way to say they accept it.

I really do not appreciate reading a topic and links and back ground and forming an opinion only to be told my opinion along with explanations as to why I came to this opinion is wrong. I have read nothing anywhere that all of these women had problems so severe they needed this procedure. Until I see those documents, I am of the opinion that these women were operated on without consent because they were not given all the information. We have the luxury of a second or third opinion. They did not. They were forced into this procedure. This is my opinion. Until I read otherwise.
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johns624
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:43 pm

You know what they say about opinions...
Five women had hysterectomies..out of how many that passed through the detention centers? I also don't consider five as being "mass".
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:50 pm

I shall report the post addressed to me that claims "YOU are saying it is acceptable." because that is SLANDER (= a LIE)

I shall report the post that says "Literally everyone saying "Oh, well" and "so what" are saying it is acceptable."
"Like those who said "oh, well" and "so what" to children in dog crates, that is a passive way to say they accept it."

because those comments are OFF-TOPIC because nobody (as in NOBODY) on this thread has made such a statement.

It is a shame because this other paragraph can stand, because it makes use of the words "this is my opinion".
And it's only taken half-a dozen posts to wring this admission out of you. :roll:

"I really do not appreciate reading a topic and links and back ground and forming an opinion only to be told my opinion along with explanations as to why I came to this opinion is wrong. I have read nothing anywhere that all of these women had problems so severe they needed this procedure. Until I see those documents, I am of the opinion that these women were operated on without consent because they were not given all the information. We have the luxury of a second or third opinion. They did not. They were forced into this procedure. This is my opinion. Until I read otherwise.
I happen to disagree with your opinions, and the methodology, but that's ok.

Meanwhile, it's my opinion that the moon is made out of cheese.
I have read nothing anywhere that all 100% of the moon is not dairy based. There is almost certainly a small corner somewhere that is curdled in some way.


So there you have it; we each have an opinion.
The difference is that I know mine is unsubstantiated.
I blame my scientific background.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Tiredofhumanity
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:27 pm

Re: Whistleblower: Mass Hysterectomies at ICE Detention Center

Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:30 pm

Between this and the Trump Regime-ordered July 2019 shutdown of the US CDC office in Beijing, why is this not making the front page news?

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