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Aaron747
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POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:48 pm

Hugely unprecedented in US Presidential history - today when questioned by a reporter about committing to a peaceful transition of power, Trump was non-committal.

“We’re going to have to see what happens, you know, but I’ve been complaining very strongly about the ballots. The ballots are a disaster,” Trump told reporters at a White House briefing when asked if he would commit to making sure there is a peaceful power transition.

When pressed, Trump said there would be no need for a transition of power without mail-in ballots, suggesting he believes he would win the election without an expansion of mail-in voting during the pandemic.


https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... n-of-power

This should be the opening question in next week’s debate: do you commit to a peaceful transition of power? If Trump goes on about ‘having to see’ and ballots and yada-yada, follow up question: why are you the only US President to not automatically respect this part of faithfully executing your office?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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NWAESC
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:00 am

He has now said this multiple times.

No one should be surprised at this point. It’s no longer a question of “if” he’ll contest the election or not. Absent anything less than a landslide, bank on it.

Get ready. And vote. Early if you can.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ltbewr
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:13 am

This is absolute evil, unconstitutional, and against all Americans. Even if loses, one thing I fear is virtually no transition process, possible sabotage of hard copy and computer files with Biden/Democrats put at a huge disadvantage in doing their duties from Inauguration day.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:16 am

Like Biden said, we have the ability to evict someone who does not belong in the White House.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
flyguy89
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:46 am

Chalking this up to his usual NY-style blustering. I sincerely do not believe he is intelligent enough to orchestrate some brilliant coup to stay in office.

But good lord it does just further demonstrate how unfit he is for the office. He cannot be gone soon enough. I've never voted Democrat for president (didn't vote for Trump last time however), but I really might pull the lever for Biden this November.
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:52 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Chalking this up to his usual NY-style blustering. I sincerely do not believe he is intelligent enough to orchestrate some brilliant coup to stay in office.

But good lord it does just further demonstrate how unfit he is for the office. He cannot be gone soon enough. I've never voted Democrat for president (didn't vote for Trump last time however), but I really might pull the lever for Biden this November.



Please do. Just this once.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:54 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Chalking this up to his usual NY-style blustering. I sincerely do not believe he is intelligent enough to orchestrate some brilliant coup to stay in office.


He may not be but the likes of Miller and Kushner are definitely working overtime to strategize this election chaos. They have a lot of power to lose too.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
cpd
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:43 am

I don't think it will get to that, Trump will win with about 85% of the vote. :duck:
 
Ken777
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:09 am

Trump will fight as hard as he can, but without the EC giving him the of five he (and his staff) will need to leave the Office at noon on Jan 20th. If Biden doesn't have the EC votes either then Nancy Pelosi will be sworn in on a temporary basis, and order Federal Marshals to "help" Trump & Gang to move out - ensuring that they don't steal ir destroy anything. President Pelosi can continue to serve as long as necessary - especially if the Dems gain the Senate as well as the House. In the meantime Trump will loose the protection of the office and the NEW AG will get investigations started on Donny Boy. Prison Time for Donny Boy!
 
flyguy89
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:27 am

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Chalking this up to his usual NY-style blustering. I sincerely do not believe he is intelligent enough to orchestrate some brilliant coup to stay in office.


He may not be but the likes of Miller and Kushner are definitely working overtime to strategize this election chaos. They have a lot of power to lose too.

I think you're even over-estimating there. The incompetence demonstrated by his administration top-to-bottom just does not inspire confidence in me that they would be able to successfully pull anything off.

Ken777 wrote:
Trump will fight as hard as he can, but without the EC giving him the of five he (and his staff) will need to leave the Office at noon on Jan 20th. If Biden doesn't have the EC votes either then Nancy Pelosi will be sworn in on a temporary basis, and order Federal Marshals to "help" Trump & Gang to move out - ensuring that they don't steal ir destroy anything. President Pelosi can continue to serve as long as necessary - especially if the Dems gain the Senate as well as the House. In the meantime Trump will loose the protection of the office and the NEW AG will get investigations started on Donny Boy. Prison Time for Donny Boy!

:checkmark:

Fortunately the Constitution is crystal clear here. Even if he manages to drag on a dispute over the election, he stops being president on Jan. 20 if the election results have not been certified. The only way he continues on is if he is in fact duly elected.
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:41 am

I saw this segment on the subject and I recommend showing it to anyone you can who isn't planning on voting this year.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/-chi ... 2424773888


This is serious. This isn't just some conspiracy theory or alarmist hypotheticals. This is the president of the united states actively planning on throwing away our votes in order to retain power.

Gee, isn't that kinda what happened in... Venezuela?

It baffles me daily how Trump's supporters continue to defend this man.
 
tommy1808
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:48 am

Aloha717200 wrote:
This is serious. This isn't just some conspiracy theory or alarmist hypotheticals. This is the president of the united states actively planning on throwing away our votes in order to retain power.


Funny how the counter intelligence investigation to established if Trump is a Russian asset was apparently quietly dropped, when that suspect constantly repeats Russian disinformation campaign stuff ..... and seemingly at the same time they start rolling it out. Almost as if he had prior knowledge....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
art
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:41 am

Aloha717200 wrote:
This is serious. This isn't just some conspiracy theory or alarmist hypotheticals. This is the president of the united states actively planning on throwing away our votes in order to retain power.

Gee, isn't that kinda what happened in... Venezuela?


I once lived in a nice little one party state. The party decided to give multi-party democracy a try for once. Instead of all candidates standing for election being from the party, non-party candidates were allowed, too. After a delay in the count due to the unusually high number of votes cast, the figures for the constituency I lived in were announced. The party candidate had won a resounding victory. It was only when people checked the number of voters in the constituency that they realised just how impressively well the party's candidate had actually done: he had got 104% of the votes.

You can add votes. You can take them away. There's more than one way to fake an election and this US one looks like it could suffer from both: some people voting twice (as suggested by the man at the top) and some people's mailed in votes not being counted (as suggested by the man at the top).
 
tommy1808
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:47 am

art wrote:
Aloha717200 wrote:
This is serious. This isn't just some conspiracy theory or alarmist hypotheticals. This is the president of the united states actively planning on throwing away our votes in order to retain power.

Gee, isn't that kinda what happened in... Venezuela?

There's more than one way to fake an election and this US one looks like it could suffer from both: some people voting twice (as suggested by the man at the top) and some people's mailed in votes not being counted (as suggested by the man at the top).


And both goes hand in hand. Get your voters to commit fraud, and then use the rampant fraud to dismiss all mail in ballots, banking on winning the in person vote. And to make sure that will happen, even when he is sunk double digits in the popular vote, he convinces his voters to vote in person, even if it kills them. After all, even if all of his voters would drop dead within three weeks after the election, he´d still be elected.

That is what the in person, no notes meetings with Putin where for: Get new orders, and instructions on how to subvert an election.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Sokes
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:44 am

Who was predicted to win the last election?
There are a lot of Trump supporters who would feel embarrassed to admit it. They will only cast their vote as they want to if they can do it in secret.

I have a question to all Trump haters here.
Suppose you and your wife do mail voting. Do you make sure that you are not in the same room as your wife when filling the paper?
If your wife chooses Trump, will you say "None of my business"?

From the undemocratic attitude towards Trump on this site, I understand why Trump doesn't trust mail in ballots.
Voting by mail can't ensure the secret vote. Trump is right.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
art
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:03 am

Sokes wrote:
Who was predicted to win the last election?
There are a lot of Trump supporters who would feel embarrassed to admit it. They will only cast their vote as they want to if they can do it in secret.

I have a question to all Trump haters here.
Suppose you and your wife do mail voting. Do you make sure that you are not in the same room as your wife when filling the paper?
If your wife chooses Trump, will you say "None of my business"?

From the undemocratic attitude towards Trump on this site, I understand why Trump doesn't trust mail in ballots.
Voting by mail can't ensure the secret vote. Trump is right.


Right, people should only vote in person at a polling station because otherwise they may not be able to keep their choice secret. I do not believe for one moment that Trump is interested in protecting the sanctity of the secret ballot in the US democratic system.

Apart from people who would like to vote but are not prepared to expose themselves to a higher risk of catching the virus by voting in person, how many more millions would be deprived of a voice if they could not mail their vote?
 
maverick4002
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:56 pm

Sokes wrote:
Who was predicted to win the last election?
There are a lot of Trump supporters who would feel embarrassed to admit it. They will only cast their vote as they want to if they can do it in secret.

I have a question to all Trump haters here.
Suppose you and your wife do mail voting. Do you make sure that you are not in the same room as your wife when filling the paper?
If your wife chooses Trump, will you say "None of my business"?

From the undemocratic attitude towards Trump on this site, I understand why Trump doesn't trust mail in ballots.
Voting by mail can't ensure the secret vote. Trump is right.


What? Trump's argument against mail in votes is not that you cannot vote in secrecy (which is idiotic because yes you can, you are not attached to your spouse 24/7). You are reaching
 
afcjets
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:34 pm

Why would the POTUS commit to that when the winner of the popular vote for POTUS and when almost half the country believes she would be the POTUS if the election hadn't been stolen from her is encouraging his opponent (who is a former VP himself) to do the exact same thing? Hillary and the DNC totally give Trump license when she said this and no one from the DNC reprimanded her:

"“Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is,”"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... r-n1238156
 
LCDFlight
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:49 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Hugely unprecedented in US Presidential history - today when questioned by a reporter about committing to a peaceful transition of power, Trump was non-committal.

“We’re going to have to see what happens, you know, but I’ve been complaining very strongly about the ballots. The ballots are a disaster,” Trump told reporters at a White House briefing when asked if he would commit to making sure there is a peaceful power transition.

When pressed, Trump said there would be no need for a transition of power without mail-in ballots, suggesting he believes he would win the election without an expansion of mail-in voting during the pandemic.


https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... n-of-power

This should be the opening question in next week’s debate: do you commit to a peaceful transition of power? If Trump goes on about ‘having to see’ and ballots and yada-yada, follow up question: why are you the only US President to not automatically respect this part of faithfully executing your office?


This is legally a non-story, a key example of fake news.

The US President has no influence on whether power should be transferred to a president-elect. I urge people to seek reputable facts, not listen to disinformation like this. Do not allow your level of ignorance to increase.

afcjets wrote:
Why would the POTUS commit to that when the winner of the popular vote for POTUS and when almost half the country believes she would be the POTUS if the election hadn't been stolen from her is encouraging his opponent (who is a former VP himself) to do the exact same thing? Hillary and the DNC totally give Trump license when she said this and no one from the DNC reprimanded her:

"“Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is,”"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... r-n1238156



Precisely. HRC did not concede (or if she did, it took months). Al Gore did not formally concede until the Supreme Court ruled against his election bid. Not before.

There is no substance to these fake premises of these fake articles:
* that candidates normally concede the election right away (two of the three new presidents in the 21st century did not get a concession without a major fight)
* that, if candidates do not concede, they can somehow try to be inaugurated as president after they lose the election

These are fake conspiracy theories, similar to QAnon.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:10 pm

Ken777 wrote:
If Biden doesn't have the EC votes either then Nancy Pelosi will be sworn in on a temporary basis, and order Federal Marshals to "help" Trump & Gang to move out - ensuring that they don't steal ir destroy anything. President Pelosi can continue to serve as long as necessary - especially if the Dems gain the Senate as well as the House. In the meantime Trump will loose the protection of the office and the NEW AG will get investigations started on Donny Boy. Prison Time for Donny Boy!

Incorrect actually. If neither Biden or Trump obtain the required majority of EC votes, then after the official tally in the Joint Session, the House and Senate IMMEDIATELY go into closed session to elect the President and Vice-President. Unless House elections also get thrown out (leaving state delegations incomplete) and/or many states end up with deadlocked delegations (2-2, 4-4, 8-8), it is likely that Republicans could carry the vote in the House given that they're seen to hold a majority of House delegations. The Senate, on its part, COULD elect Harris as VP if Democrats capture the Senate (each Senator gets 1 vote); or reelect Pence if Republicans keep it (the untested scenario is a tied 50-50 Senate, for which there is no agreement on if a sitting VP can break the tie in their favor). Regardless, it's quite likely that the Senate WILL elect someone (a 50-50 split has happened only once, though it could happen again) so if Pelosi keeps the Speaker's gavel, she won't need to be sworn in as temporary president.

Pelosi would only be a temporary president if the House and Senate haven't made up their minds (which could happen if the House and Senate are both deadlocked). If it happens that the deadlock is not solved for weeks or months, then a resolution could be passed where the House and Senate either agree to accept the person who obtained the most EC votes (or the most popular votes) and vote accordingly to end the stalemate. By then, the election is in the hands of each chamber of Congress so it's their rules; just like each delegation can override the will of people and electors in their state (for example, FL's 27 EC votes going to Biden, but its 27 House members voting for Trump in a close session), both chambers can agree on basic rules.

If Trump does not get 270 EC votes, his term officially ends on Jan 20 at noon, whether he likes it or not. He does not get to be sworn in or stay on as caretaker until someone else is.

LCDFlight wrote:
HRC did not concede (or if she did, it took months).

Oh the irony... This coming from a person who said (and I quote):
LCDFlight wrote:
I urge people to seek reputable facts, not listen to disinformation like this. Do not allow your level of ignorance to increase.

Maybe you should follow your own advice...?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
LCDFlight
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:15 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
If Biden doesn't have the EC votes either then Nancy Pelosi will be sworn in on a temporary basis, and order Federal Marshals to "help" Trump & Gang to move out - ensuring that they don't steal ir destroy anything. President Pelosi can continue to serve as long as necessary - especially if the Dems gain the Senate as well as the House. In the meantime Trump will loose the protection of the office and the NEW AG will get investigations started on Donny Boy. Prison Time for Donny Boy!

Incorrect actually. If neither Biden or Trump obtain the required majority of EC votes, then after the official tally in the Joint Session, the House and Senate IMMEDIATELY go into closed session to elect the President and Vice-President. Unless House elections also get thrown out (leaving state delegations incomplete) and/or many states end up with deadlocked delegations (2-2, 4-4, 8-8), it is likely that Republicans could carry the vote in the House given that they're seen to hold a majority of House delegations. The Senate, on its part, COULD elect Harris as VP if Democrats capture the Senate (each Senator gets 1 vote); or reelect Pence if Republicans keep it (the untested scenario is a tied 50-50 Senate, for which there is no agreement on if a sitting VP can break the tie in their favor). Regardless, it's quite likely that the Senate WILL elect someone (a 50-50 split has happened only once, though it could happen again) so if Pelosi keeps the Speaker's gavel, she won't need to be sworn in as temporary president.

Pelosi would only be a temporary president if the House and Senate haven't made up their minds (which could happen if the House and Senate are both deadlocked). If it happens that the deadlock is not solved for weeks or months, then a resolution could be passed where the House and Senate either agree to accept the person who obtained the most EC votes (or the most popular votes) and vote accordingly to end the stalemate. By then, the election is in the hands of each chamber of Congress so it's their rules; just like each delegation can override the will of people and electors in their state (for example, FL's 27 EC votes going to Biden, but its 27 House members voting for Trump in a close session), both chambers can agree on basic rules.

If Trump does not get 270 EC votes, his term officially ends on Jan 20 at noon, whether he likes it or not. He does not get to be sworn in or stay on as caretaker until someone else is.

LCDFlight wrote:
HRC did not concede (or if she did, it took months).

Oh the irony... This coming from a person who said (and I quote):
LCDFlight wrote:
I urge people to seek reputable facts, not listen to disinformation like this. Do not allow your level of ignorance to increase.

Maybe you should follow your own advice...?


She wrote entire books saying she did not accept the election as legitimate.

Also gave speeches. She didn't accept the result. She did (privately) concede to Donald at 2:30am that night. But she didn't publicly concede.

If you are saying the 2016 election wasn't contested... that is definitely a matter of opinion. I consider the Mueller investigations, impeachment hearings and impeachment vote to have been part of the election contest.
Last edited by LCDFlight on Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:20 pm

Then, there’s Biden stand-on John Podesta at the Transition Integrity war game recommending no concession and hold up a west coast secession as hostage to a deal on who takes office. If you doubt this as a plausible scenario, see the 1876 Tilden-Hayes election. Republicans wanted Hayes in, Democrats wanted the end of Reconstruction. A trade was made and Democrats sold out blacks for the first time of many.
 
wingman
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:34 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
If you are saying the 2016 election wasn't contested... that is definitely a matter of opinion. I consider the Mueller investigations, impeachment hearings and impeachment vote to have been part of the election contest.


Mueller wasn't appointed as special counsel until May 2017. You'll have to go a bit further back to try to pull that kind of revisionist BS. And while Obama was president and Comey was in charge of the FBI no one ever heard of Trump's incipient investigation. We only heard about Hillary's. It's a fact that Republicans that obsess about a Deep State willfully ignore as they rewrite recent history. You can try that crap on your buds down at the golf club. Trump was investigated because oof his own words and actions and those of his campaign team. Any other conclusion is ignorant, nakedly partisan and completely devoid of intelligence.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:42 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Hugely unprecedented in US Presidential history - today when questioned by a reporter about committing to a peaceful transition of power, Trump was non-committal.

“We’re going to have to see what happens, you know, but I’ve been complaining very strongly about the ballots. The ballots are a disaster,” Trump told reporters at a White House briefing when asked if he would commit to making sure there is a peaceful power transition.

When pressed, Trump said there would be no need for a transition of power without mail-in ballots, suggesting he believes he would win the election without an expansion of mail-in voting during the pandemic.


https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... n-of-power

This should be the opening question in next week’s debate: do you commit to a peaceful transition of power? If Trump goes on about ‘having to see’ and ballots and yada-yada, follow up question: why are you the only US President to not automatically respect this part of faithfully executing your office?


This is legally a non-story, a key example of fake news.

The US President has no influence on whether power should be transferred to a president-elect. I urge people to seek reputable facts, not listen to disinformation like this. Do not allow your level of ignorance to increase.

afcjets wrote:
Why would the POTUS commit to that when the winner of the popular vote for POTUS and when almost half the country believes she would be the POTUS if the election hadn't been stolen from her is encouraging his opponent (who is a former VP himself) to do the exact same thing? Hillary and the DNC totally give Trump license when she said this and no one from the DNC reprimanded her:

"“Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch, and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is,”"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... r-n1238156



Precisely. HRC did not concede (or if she did, it took months). Al Gore did not formally concede until the Supreme Court ruled against his election bid. Not before.

There is no substance to these fake premises of these fake articles:
* that candidates normally concede the election right away (two of the three new presidents in the 21st century did not get a concession without a major fight)
* that, if candidates do not concede, they can somehow try to be inaugurated as president after they lose the election

These are fake conspiracy theories, similar to QAnon.


Not fake at all. It's precisely what was said. And being reported around the world anywhere speaking English:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG5nnfOAsFA

Candidate concessions are not a logical connection to an unprofessional statement from the office of POTUS. Conflation, as usual. The correct answer to the question in the video above is: 'Of course there will be a transfer of power, regardless of result. That's what our Constitution requires.' And if he believes it will be contentious or difficult to obtain a clear result, he can add a 3rd sentence qualifier: 'Not saying there won't be some bumps along the way, but we'll see what happens'. PR 101.

He has a responsibility to faithfully execute the office and make public statements that are within precedent for the office. His answer to the question did not meet that standard.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Sokes
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:00 pm

art wrote:
Apart from people who would like to vote but are not prepared to expose themselves to a higher risk of catching the virus by voting in person, how many more millions would be deprived of a voice if they could not mail their vote?

Good points. But they don't contradict the validity of my point.
As usual, there are positives and negatives.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Sokes
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:07 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
What? Trump's argument against mail in votes is not that you cannot vote in secrecy (which is idiotic because yes you can, you are not attached to your spouse 24/7). You are reaching

I have to admit I'm not well informed. What is his argument then?

More than 20 years back I had a discussion with my father. He objects to voting by letter because of possible interference by spouses. I wasn't interested in this topic at that time. But the public opinion at this election doesn't seem tolerant towards Trump supporters. I can see now what my father meant.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
afcjets
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:09 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Candidate concessions are not a logical connection to an unprofessional statement from the office of POTUS. Conflation, as usual.


Of course they are, when the statement by the office of the POTUS is the exact same thing you're complaining about and was said by the former Democrat POTUS candidate who is giving advice to the current one. As usual, you apply a double standard when it comes to anything Trump.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:14 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Candidate concessions are not a logical connection to an unprofessional statement from the office of POTUS. Conflation, as usual.


Of course they are, when the statement by the office of the POTUS is the exact same thing you're complaining about and was said by the former Democrat POTUS candidate who is giving advice to the current one. As usual, you apply a double standard when it comes to anything Trump.


No, I simply don't care. Don't follow or listen to anything HRC says - she's a has-been who never got my vote. He's the one who took the oath of office and has to uphold its precepts, not her.

Two useful quotes from a conservative with head still on straight:

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status ... 56423?s=20

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status ... 26048?s=20
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Francoflier
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:25 pm

It's amazing the number of similarities between what is happening in the US right now and what happened in so many countries across history which insidiously transitioned towards authoritative and undemocratic governments.

Quite scary.

The way this is going, I wouldn't put the current administration past trying constitutional changes to establish their power, especially if trump wins again.
This whole episode so far has been a 4 years long stress test of the USA's institutions.

It takes wars and countless lives to establish democracy, and a single vote to destroy them...
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Aaron747
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:29 pm

Francoflier wrote:
It's amazing the number of similarities between what is happening in the US right now and what happened in so many countries across history which insidiously transitioned towards authoritative and undemocratic governments.

Quite scary.

The way this is going, I wouldn't put the current administration past trying constitutional changes to establish their power, especially if trump wins again.
This whole episode so far has been a 4 years long stress test of the USA's institutions.

It takes wars and countless lives to establish democracy, and a single vote to destroy them...


Fortunately, changes to the Constitution are among the most difficult feats in the US system. Any changes require 2/3 passage in both houses of Congress, plus 3/4 of the state legislatures must ratify by majority vote. Pretty hard to do unless it is a massively unifying issue.
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tommy1808
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:43 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Precisely. HRC did not concede (or if she did, it took months). Al Gore did not formally concede until the Supreme Court ruled against his election bid. Not before.


Clinton conceded on the 9th, publicly. The Supreme court ruled to stop counting, and before that nobody knew who had won (and technically not even after), so there was nothing to concede. Gore didn't ask for ballots to be dismissed/mail ballots to be discarded.

LCDFlight wrote:
She wrote entire books saying she did not accept the election as legitimate.


If conceding and judging the win is illegitimate where the same thing, there would be just one word.

If anything that is conceding to the 10th power. She believes, and the Mueller report proved her right, that Trump won by illegit means. We have a witness saying Trump was convinced Putin was deliberately funneling money into him too. And yet she still conceded he'd won, without leading "lock him up" chants, afaik without accusing him of treason either .... you know, what Trump does on average every ~5 weeks....

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winginit
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:50 pm

If Barack Obama while in office has said anything even close to this even in obvious jest (which this is clearly not)... you'd have a bunch of stupid rednecks marching on Washington with guns in hand fully intending to try and kill the President of the United States.
 
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:07 pm

ltbewr wrote:
This is absolute evil, unconstitutional, and against all Americans. Even if loses, one thing I fear is virtually no transition process, possible sabotage of hard copy and computer files with Biden/Democrats put at a huge disadvantage in doing their duties from Inauguration day.


I don't know, erasing Trump's presidency is an advantage in my book.

No document about having signed this or that, appointed him or her ? Didn't happen, then.

I would expect public servants to act with self preservation in mind once it's clear Trump has lost, and stop doing anything dodgy on his behalf.
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flyguy89
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:08 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
This is legally a non-story, a key example of fake news.

The US President has no influence on whether power should be transferred to a president-elect. I urge people to seek reputable facts, not listen to disinformation like this. Do not allow your level of ignorance to increase.

How is it fake news? I agree in that I don't think there's ultimately anything to it since Trump characteristically talks "big" about everything with little to back it up. But it was a simple question, why wouldn't you commit to peaceful transition of power as a politician in a democratic republic? He's either just that dumb, or at a minimum trying to sow loss-of-faith in the electoral process. How Republicans can think this man in any way stacks up to Reagan is beyond me.

Francoflier wrote:
This whole episode so far has been a 4 years long stress test of the USA's institutions.

If we're being honest, US institutions have been under stress far longer than the past 4 years.

winginit wrote:
If Barack Obama while in office has said anything even close to this even in obvious jest (which this is clearly not)... you'd have a bunch of stupid rednecks marching on Washington with guns in hand fully intending to try and kill the President of the United States.

100% and it drives me up a wall. But what can you do when one thinks in such tribalistic and partisan terms...the classic "he's an asshole but at least he's our asshole."
 
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:24 pm

The Supreme Court decides, doesn't it ? Strangely a left-wing justice just died. Strangely 17 GOP senators are ready to get back on their earlier promise and replace her with a right-wing nutjob before the election. All coincidence ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:26 pm

Why am I not surprised that the reaction from Trump supporters on this site is "fake news" and "but Hillary".

You have a president of the United States actively saying "throw out the votes, there won't be a transition of power".

You have a guy who has undermined our Democratic processes at every turn and is working hard to stack the courts before the election to ensure any legitimate legal challenge to his authority is quashed. And this is only the latest thing after four years or corruption, division, lies, and gaslighting that has torn open every old wound this country has and left it bleeding, and put us at what I believe is the precipice of a new civil war.

"But the Democrats"

No.

He's an abuser. He's every rotten dysfunctional personality trait wrapped into one person. He's the abusive partner our country should have broken up with long ago, and his MAGA fans are his biggest victims of all because he's convinced you that he actually /cares/ about you.

He doesn't. He cares about himself. And himself only. No matter the cost to lives, laws, norms, respect, civility, or truth.

He fashions himself a dictator and if you /truly/ believe in American values then you know that wars have been fought and blood has been shed fighting people like Trump around the world. You know this isn't what America is supposed to be.


But even as I say this, I know in my heart I am wasting my time. Once people get hooked on Trump, they stay hooked, because Trump has taught them to reject reality, reject the truth of their own ears and eyes, and believe only him and his loyalists. And the saddest part of all is that these folks still think they're free thinkers...when almost every point they make can be traced back to some talking point from POTUS, Fox News, and The Blaze..


They're not going to listen to me, to you, or anyone else. Arguing with a Trump supporter is legitimately a waste of time. The only answer is to vote like hell. Outvote them. They're victims of a mass gaslighting campaign and if the idea of democracy is to be saved, it requires all of us who still believe in what America should represent to stand up, get to the polls, and vote like our life depends on it. Give Joe Biden an unquestionable victory that can't be easily called "fraud".

I know many lifelong Republicans who are voting for Joe just this once, because they want to save the country. I applaud people like that.
 
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:36 pm

winginit wrote:
If Barack Obama while in office has said anything even close to this even in obvious jest (which this is clearly not)... you'd have a bunch of stupid rednecks marching on Washington with guns in hand fully intending to try and kill the President of the United States.


Absolutely. He didn't even say anything and they still claimed he waa coming for their guns.

This whole fiasco is a major hit to the supposed "dignity of the office" that some used to claim was a big deal. Presidents aren't supposed to be fun, or make jokes. Obama's "fun" moments are things like a funny video to promote some new program, (or the time he effortlessly sunk a 3) W struggling with doors, Clinton playing the saxophone. It's the type of fun you'd except your serious, no nonsense type boss to enjoy.

Making alleged jokes about term limits, transition of power, and election tampering is not something a president should do. It's more akin to claiming you aren't racist, making racist jokes 24/7, and then saying "yea but seriously though...."
 
LCDFlight
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:41 pm

Aesma wrote:
The Supreme Court decides, doesn't it ? Strangely a left-wing justice just died. Strangely 17 GOP senators are ready to get back on their earlier promise and replace her with a right-wing nutjob before the election. All coincidence ?


No, it doesn't decide, unless there is an electoral tie of some kind.

Aloha717200 wrote:
Why am I not surprised that the reaction from Trump supporters on this site is "fake news" and "but Hillary".

You have a president of the United States actively saying "throw out the votes, there won't be a transition of power".

You have a guy who has undermined our Democratic processes at every turn and is working hard to stack the courts before the election to ensure any legitimate legal challenge to his authority is quashed. And this is only the latest thing after four years or corruption, division, lies, and gaslighting that has torn open every old wound this country has and left it bleeding, and put us at what I believe is the precipice of a new civil war.

"But the Democrats"

No.

He's an abuser. He's every rotten dysfunctional personality trait wrapped into one person. He's the abusive partner our country should have broken up with long ago, and his MAGA fans are his biggest victims of all because he's convinced you that he actually /cares/ about you.

He doesn't. He cares about himself. And himself only. No matter the cost to lives, laws, norms, respect, civility, or truth.

He fashions himself a dictator and if you /truly/ believe in American values then you know that wars have been fought and blood has been shed fighting people like Trump around the world. You know this isn't what America is supposed to be.


But even as I say this, I know in my heart I am wasting my time. Once people get hooked on Trump, they stay hooked, because Trump has taught them to reject reality, reject the truth of their own ears and eyes, and believe only him and his loyalists. And the saddest part of all is that these folks still think they're free thinkers...when almost every point they make can be traced back to some talking point from POTUS, Fox News, and The Blaze..


They're not going to listen to me, to you, or anyone else. Arguing with a Trump supporter is legitimately a waste of time. The only answer is to vote like hell. Outvote them. They're victims of a mass gaslighting campaign and if the idea of democracy is to be saved, it requires all of us who still believe in what America should represent to stand up, get to the polls, and vote like our life depends on it. Give Joe Biden an unquestionable victory that can't be easily called "fraud".

I know many lifelong Republicans who are voting for Joe just this once, because they want to save the country. I applaud people like that.


A lot of emotional words here. Can you explain how Trump's emotions will affect who gets inaugurated in Jan 2021? Why would anyone care what Trump thinks? I doubt anyone cares. It has no effect. It is a fake premise. The winner of the election will be inaugurated. The premise that Trump can decide the election based on his personal wishes is fake.
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:58 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The Supreme Court decides, doesn't it ? Strangely a left-wing justice just died. Strangely 17 GOP senators are ready to get back on their earlier promise and replace her with a right-wing nutjob before the election. All coincidence ?


No, it doesn't decide, unless there is an electoral tie of some kind.

Aloha717200 wrote:
Why am I not surprised that the reaction from Trump supporters on this site is "fake news" and "but Hillary".

You have a president of the United States actively saying "throw out the votes, there won't be a transition of power".

You have a guy who has undermined our Democratic processes at every turn and is working hard to stack the courts before the election to ensure any legitimate legal challenge to his authority is quashed. And this is only the latest thing after four years or corruption, division, lies, and gaslighting that has torn open every old wound this country has and left it bleeding, and put us at what I believe is the precipice of a new civil war.

"But the Democrats"

No.

He's an abuser. He's every rotten dysfunctional personality trait wrapped into one person. He's the abusive partner our country should have broken up with long ago, and his MAGA fans are his biggest victims of all because he's convinced you that he actually /cares/ about you.

He doesn't. He cares about himself. And himself only. No matter the cost to lives, laws, norms, respect, civility, or truth.

He fashions himself a dictator and if you /truly/ believe in American values then you know that wars have been fought and blood has been shed fighting people like Trump around the world. You know this isn't what America is supposed to be.


But even as I say this, I know in my heart I am wasting my time. Once people get hooked on Trump, they stay hooked, because Trump has taught them to reject reality, reject the truth of their own ears and eyes, and believe only him and his loyalists. And the saddest part of all is that these folks still think they're free thinkers...when almost every point they make can be traced back to some talking point from POTUS, Fox News, and The Blaze..


They're not going to listen to me, to you, or anyone else. Arguing with a Trump supporter is legitimately a waste of time. The only answer is to vote like hell. Outvote them. They're victims of a mass gaslighting campaign and if the idea of democracy is to be saved, it requires all of us who still believe in what America should represent to stand up, get to the polls, and vote like our life depends on it. Give Joe Biden an unquestionable victory that can't be easily called "fraud".

I know many lifelong Republicans who are voting for Joe just this once, because they want to save the country. I applaud people like that.


A lot of emotional words here. Can you explain how Trump's emotions will affect who gets inaugurated in Jan 2021? Why would anyone care what Trump thinks? I doubt anyone cares. It has no effect. It is a fake premise. The winner of the election will be inaugurated. The premise that Trump can decide the election based on his personal wishes is fake.


That is incorrect. If the election results are not certified by 35 days after the election, and dragged out because of Trump's claims of voter fraud, it is possible for states with republican-led legislators to send electoral voters chosen by the president or the Republican party to certify the results in favor of the president. This would set aside the popular vote of the state, and is also incidentally taking advantage of a loophole in the constitution.

Trump's advisors are already planning on trying this tactic because even if it is challenged in court, Trump will have a six to three majority and will be able to prevail.

This is not fake news, this is real shit.
 
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:50 pm

Aloha717200 wrote:
That is incorrect. If the election results are not certified by 35 days after the election, and dragged out because of Trump's claims of voter fraud, it is possible for states with republican-led legislators to send electoral voters chosen by the president or the Republican party to certify the results in favor of the president. This would set aside the popular vote of the state, and is also incidentally taking advantage of a loophole in the constitution.


What's your source on that information?

To the extent of my knowledge: If the Electoral College doesn't produce a clear winner through the election (neither candidate receives 270), then by the 12th Amendment, Congress must convene and the House votes for President (with each state delegation casting a single, collective vote for 50 votes total) while the Senate votes for Vice President (each senator gets a vote).

This vote would likely be performed by the current, lame-duck session of Congress rather than the newly elected session as that doesn't convene until January.
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seb146
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:00 pm

He already admins he is losing. To the point where he refuses to leave office now, before any election is held. He even thinks the election THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED YET is fraud. He needs to take himself and his band of followers to Russia where they belong.
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art
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:05 pm

Aloha717200 wrote:
If the election results are not certified by 35 days after the election, and dragged out because of Trump's claims of voter fraud, it is possible for states with republican-led legislators to send electoral voters chosen by the president or the Republican party to certify the results in favor of the president. This would set aside the popular vote of the state, and is also incidentally taking advantage of a loophole in the constitution.

Trump's advisors are already planning on trying this tactic because even if it is challenged in court, Trump will have a six to three majority and will be able to prevail.

This is not fake news, this is real shit.


Bit of a massive mistake not having an independent judiciary in the US, is it not? It appears from what you say that Supreme Court judges are expected to make rulings on a political basis. Now that is real shit, if true.

As an afterthought, what proportion of Americans value democracy more highly than the presidenti or political party they may support?
Last edited by art on Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Aloha717200
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:10 pm

JBo wrote:
Aloha717200 wrote:
That is incorrect. If the election results are not certified by 35 days after the election, and dragged out because of Trump's claims of voter fraud, it is possible for states with republican-led legislators to send electoral voters chosen by the president or the Republican party to certify the results in favor of the president. This would set aside the popular vote of the state, and is also incidentally taking advantage of a loophole in the constitution.


What's your source on that information?

To the extent of my knowledge: If the Electoral College doesn't produce a clear winner through the election (neither candidate receives 270), then by the 12th Amendment, Congress must convene and the House votes for President (with each state delegation casting a single, collective vote for 50 votes total) while the Senate votes for Vice President (each senator gets a vote).

This vote would likely be performed by the current, lame-duck session of Congress rather than the newly elected session as that doesn't convene until January.


The tactic Trump will be using would be designed to set aside the popular vote of a state and send electors favorable to the president to cast their electoral votes in December, giving him the 270+ electoral votes needed to circumvent the "no majority" scenario you outlined above. In other words, using this strategy, the 12th amendment would not apply.

Please read the bullet points of the Forbes article below:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/ ... n-results/

Additional reading:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... de/616424/


Trump's own words:

https://youtu.be/mUQ56Tf22pg


Far from fake news. And even if he doesn't pull it off, intentions count. I don't understand someone calling themselves a patriot and still supporting this man in his obvious attempt to subvert the democratic process. This is wrong and down in your hearts you have to know that it is. Think about if a democratic president was doing this. Would it still feel "justified"?
 
flyguy89
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:47 pm

Aloha717200 wrote:
JBo wrote:
Aloha717200 wrote:
That is incorrect. If the election results are not certified by 35 days after the election, and dragged out because of Trump's claims of voter fraud, it is possible for states with republican-led legislators to send electoral voters chosen by the president or the Republican party to certify the results in favor of the president. This would set aside the popular vote of the state, and is also incidentally taking advantage of a loophole in the constitution.


What's your source on that information?

To the extent of my knowledge: If the Electoral College doesn't produce a clear winner through the election (neither candidate receives 270), then by the 12th Amendment, Congress must convene and the House votes for President (with each state delegation casting a single, collective vote for 50 votes total) while the Senate votes for Vice President (each senator gets a vote).

This vote would likely be performed by the current, lame-duck session of Congress rather than the newly elected session as that doesn't convene until January.


The tactic Trump will be using would be designed to set aside the popular vote of a state and send electors favorable to the president to cast their electoral votes in December, giving him the 270+ electoral votes needed to circumvent the "no majority" scenario you outlined above. In other words, using this strategy, the 12th amendment would not apply.

Please read the bullet points of the Forbes article below:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/ ... n-results/

Additional reading:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... de/616424/


Trump's own words:

https://youtu.be/mUQ56Tf22pg


Far from fake news. And even if he doesn't pull it off, intentions count. I don't understand someone calling themselves a patriot and still supporting this man in his obvious attempt to subvert the democratic process. This is wrong and down in your hearts you have to know that it is. Think about if a democratic president was doing this. Would it still feel "justified"?

I have a couple issues with what's laid out here...at least in the Forbes article. First off, they vaguely reference Republicans discussing the appointment of "loyal electors" but each state appoints two slates of electors, one slate for each party...so are they referencing appointing loyal Republican electors? If so, that's really nothing bombshell. Secondly, the states have their own constitutions to consider. If the state constitution stipulates the electors go to the popular vote getter, legislators can't whimsically decide otherwise without amending the state's constitution. Thirdly, if we're talking about Trump appealing to battleground states to give him their electors, on what basis would legislators of a true battleground state (answerable to electorate with strong representation from both parties given what makes it a battleground state) have incentive to do so since, to win in such states, they need to appeal and be answerable to voters on both sides of the spectrum. Battleground state legislators or more likely to be far less party-loyal than a deep red or deep blue state.

There's just a lot of vagueness and a lot to unpack there. It wouldn't surprise with Trump, but at the same time I'm not going to unduly fret over something that's likely not possible.
 
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bgm
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:45 pm

Well, at least Trump will have these delightful people to support him:

Warning: some of these photos are NSFW.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/acrider/s ... 6039055761

Bonus points if anyone can explain why the lady is wearing genitalia on her mask. Who knew white supremacists were partial to some BBC (and I don't mean the British Broadcasting Corporation) :rotfl:
 
NIKV69
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:49 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
This is legally a non-story, a key example of fake news.

The US President has no influence on whether power should be transferred to a president-elect. I urge people to seek reputable facts, not listen to disinformation like this. Do not allow your level of ignorance to increase.
.


Exactly, Trump is just toying with the media here. Knowing they would run with it since the Russia thing now doesn't work anymore. They know Biden is going down in flames and they have to start trying to scare people. It's really sad what the MSM has become. They are very sinister.
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Aloha717200
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:11 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
This is legally a non-story, a key example of fake news.

The US President has no influence on whether power should be transferred to a president-elect. I urge people to seek reputable facts, not listen to disinformation like this. Do not allow your level of ignorance to increase.
.


Exactly, Trump is just toying with the media here. Knowing they would run with it since the Russia thing now doesn't work anymore. They know Biden is going down in flames and they have to start trying to scare people. It's really sad what the MSM has become. They are very sinister.



This makes no sense. If Biden is going down in flames why does Trump feel the need to add scare tactics on top of everything? Can't he just let Biden lose?

The media isn't the source of these words, it's Trump. Can you explain to me logically why the leader of the free world needs to threaten to not accept the election results if he's sure he's winning?

These are tactics used by dictators. Not american presidents. It's something I never thought I'd see in America. If we want to talk about sinister... Trump is advocating for the sidestepping of democracy. That's sinister.
 
Sokes
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:26 pm

bgm wrote:
Well, at least Trump will have these delightful people to support him:

Warning: some of these photos are NSFW.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/acrider/s ... 6039055761

Bonus points if anyone can explain why the lady is wearing genitalia on her mask. Who knew white supremacists were partial to some BBC (and I don't mean the British Broadcasting Corporation) :rotfl:

Is she wearing the mask the wrong way round?

Considering the teeth of the people on the pictures, I wonder why they wouldn't vote for better health care. I guess one has to be American to understand this.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:31 am

Aloha717200 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
This is legally a non-story, a key example of fake news.

The US President has no influence on whether power should be transferred to a president-elect. I urge people to seek reputable facts, not listen to disinformation like this. Do not allow your level of ignorance to increase.
.


Exactly, Trump is just toying with the media here. Knowing they would run with it since the Russia thing now doesn't work anymore. They know Biden is going down in flames and they have to start trying to scare people. It's really sad what the MSM has become. They are very sinister.



This makes no sense. If Biden is going down in flames why does Trump feel the need to add scare tactics on top of everything? Can't he just let Biden lose?

The media isn't the source of these words, it's Trump. Can you explain to me logically why the leader of the free world needs to threaten to not accept the election results if he's sure he's winning?

These are tactics used by dictators. Not american presidents. It's something I never thought I'd see in America. If we want to talk about sinister... Trump is advocating for the sidestepping of democracy. That's sinister.


It’s not really worth talking with them. They aren’t particularly smart.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: POTUS Doesn’t Commit to Peaceful Transition of Power

Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:47 pm

bgm wrote:
Well, at least Trump will have these delightful people to support him:

Warning: some of these photos are NSFW.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/acrider/s ... 6039055761


Like if The Walking Dead came with Before pictures. . .


SL1200MK2 wrote:

It’s not really worth talking with them. They aren’t particularly smart.


Not particularly, no. Most times, you are really just waving old meat in front of Zombies as opposed to an actual debate. It is, however, helpful to highlight to the rest of us the hazards of giving these types too much oxygen...
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