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WarRI1
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Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:12 am

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/0 ... /24627825/

I agree, 13 % is a large number of voters to tick off, almost enough to swing an election.
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WarRI1
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:00 am

As I said, 13 % could make that possible.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Ken777
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:21 am

While tome of the radicals in the GOP are SO HAPPY that there is now an opening I believe that naming a replacement t before the election will cost the GOP years of failure in the polls. McConnell has shown that he is quite happy changing the rules re the USSC so all it takes is for the Terms to get the Senate and start changing the rules themselves. Six new USSC Seats filled with solid liberals should fit nicely, as would the elimination of the filibuster rules.

All future miseries will be based on the GOP desire to protect Trump. Hope its's worth it.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:36 am

Ken777 wrote:
Six new USSC Seats filled with solid liberals should fit nicely


Offer to just add two, purely to make up for the Republicans violating their own precedence, if the constitution gets amended by a 2/3 majority requirement to confirm a new supreme court judges with deadlines when the Senate has to hold confirmation hearings, vote to confirm or not, and a hard limit when the vacant seat has to be filled, including what happens if it isn´t filled by that date. I recommend conclave the senators without phones, internet, media access locked into the building and sleeping on bunk beds until they do their job, by threat of imprisonment for violating those rules. No exceptions for health reasons either.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
maverick4002
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:59 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
Six new USSC Seats filled with solid liberals should fit nicely


Offer to just add two, purely to make up for the Republicans violating their own precedence, if the constitution gets amended by a 2/3 majority requirement to confirm a new supreme court judges with deadlines when the Senate has to hold confirmation hearings, vote to confirm or not, and a hard limit when the vacant seat has to be filled, including what happens if it isn´t filled by that date. I recommend conclave the senators without phones, internet, media access locked into the building and sleeping on bunk beds until they do their job, by threat of imprisonment for violating those rules. No exceptions for health reasons either.

best regards
Thomas


Two would still leave it 6-5 though. No thanks. They want to go low, we go lower. At least 4 is needed
 
winginit
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:08 pm

The GOP has proven time and time again that the will of the people couldn't matter less to them (both parties are guilty of this, but the GOP even more so.). Look at abortion or Obamacare - both are overwhelmingly popular in the United States to the tune of 60%+...

GOP still fight it every day tooth and nail
 
PPVRA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:07 pm

FDR suffered a humiliating defeat in his court packing scheme that had far reaching political consequences, including massive defeat in the 1938 mid-term elections.

Democrats should be warned about playing this game again. Independents will not look kindly to this.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:02 pm

Perhaps a constitutional amendment that defines the number of judges AND adds a new requirement to the confirmation process that could not be satisfied in time in the current year could be a solution for this predicament.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
NIKV69
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:51 pm

winginit wrote:
The GOP has proven time and time again that the will of the people couldn't matter less to them (both parties are guilty of this, but the GOP even more so.). Look at abortion or Obamacare - both are overwhelmingly popular in the United States to the tune of 60%+...

GOP still fight it every day tooth and nail


Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:37 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
winginit wrote:
The GOP has proven time and time again that the will of the people couldn't matter less to them (both parties are guilty of this, but the GOP even more so.). Look at abortion or Obamacare - both are overwhelmingly popular in the United States to the tune of 60%+...

GOP still fight it every day tooth and nail


Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.


His election had to do mostly with anti-establishment sentiment and jobs, not SCOTUS.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
PPVRA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:34 pm

PPVRA wrote:
Perhaps a constitutional amendment that defines the number of judges AND adds a new requirement to the confirmation process that could not be satisfied in time in the current year could be a solution for this predicament.


A suggestion amendment:

1. Confirmation process shall last a minimum of 90 days from the date of appointment for public review.
2. Prohibits the president from appointing a replacement judge during the lame-duck session.

Also, might be worth considering a mechanism for appointing an interim judge. Say, the longest-serving federal judge gets the job until the Senate confirms the next judge.

Edit: might be better to prohibit the Senate from confirming a replacement judge during the lame duck session.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:06 pm

PPVRA wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
Perhaps a constitutional amendment that defines the number of judges AND adds a new requirement to the confirmation process that could not be satisfied in time in the current year could be a solution for this predicament.


A suggestion amendment:

1. Confirmation process shall last a minimum of 90 days from the date of appointment for public review.
2. Prohibits the president from appointing a replacement judge during the lame-duck session.

Also, might be worth considering a mechanism for appointing an interim judge. Say, the longest-serving federal judge gets the job until the Senate confirms the next judge.

Edit: might be better to prohibit the Senate from confirming a replacement judge during the lame duck session.


Simple and excellent suggestions. Unfortunately the amendment threshold is still a very high bar to clear.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:52 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.

Well, Obama won the 2012 election and he was president until January 20, 2017...that means he was in his right to nominate a justice. This is a case of moving the goalposts. Next you're gonna tell me that McConnell was right to block Obama because:
1. It was an election year (yet that rule is being broken right now)
2. The Senate flipped to GOP control which meant people wanted the Senate to keep Obama in check (so that means that vacancies will remain until either a GOP president is elected or the Senate flips to Dem control).

PPVRA wrote:
A suggestion amendment:

1. Confirmation process shall last a minimum of 90 days from the date of appointment for public review.
2. Prohibits the president from appointing a replacement judge during the lame-duck session.

Also, might be worth considering a mechanism for appointing an interim judge. Say, the longest-serving federal judge gets the job until the Senate confirms the next judge.

Edit: might be better to prohibit the Senate from confirming a replacement judge during the lame duck session.


A very reasonable amendment. I would reform it as such (more wordy, but closes all loopholes):

1. When a vacancy in any of the federal courts, circuits, or districts happens more than 3 months prior to a general election, the President shall nominate a candidate and the Senate shall not delay confirmation hearings. The Senate shall express their consent or lack thereof by a confirmation vote. Should the Senate delay action on confirmation hearings by a month from the time the nomination was made, the House is empowered to step in and hold hearings. Should both the House and Senate delay confirmation hearings by a month each, the nominated candidate shall be deemed a recess appointment and serve until the next Congress is sworn in, whether or not Congress is in session. A confirmation vote shall not take place more than 90 days after the date of nomination but no less than 60 days.
2. Should the Senate or House vote three times to reject candidates for a vacancy, the President shall nominate a candidate who will serve as a recess appointment until either a positive confirmation vote is held or a new Congress is sworn in.
3. Should such a vacancy happen less than 3 months prior to a general election, the President shall not nominate a candidate and the Senate shall not hold confirmation hearings until a new Congress is sworn in or a new president is sworn in, whichever happens later, unless such nomination happened more than 3 months prior to a general electin. The Chief Justices are empowered to select a reserve judge to serve on a temporary capacity until such a time the vacancy is filled by confirmation.
4. Should such a vacancy happen at the Supreme Court 3 months prior to a general election, the Justices of the Supreme Court shall not schedule hearings until the bench is back at full capacity. Cases already scheduled for hearing during a time in which the Court will not be at full capacity shall be rescheduled. Cases already heard prior to the vacancy shall be decided as the Court deems fit.
5. All federal judges shall retire from active service at age 75. They may serve as reserve judges and called into service by the Chief Justices when needed.
6. No person under the age of 50 shall serve as a federal judge. No person without prior federal court experience shall serve as a judge of the Supreme Court.


Point 1 is simple: the President is entitled to nominate someone and the Senate MUST act on the nomination (schedule hearings and a confirmation vote). If the Senate doesn't find the person palatable, then they can vote down the confirmation. If the Senate delays by more than a month, the House can take over the role as the Senate will have abdicated its responsibility. If both chambers of Congress simply do not take action, then the nominee gets to serve as a recess appointment. It also sets how long the nomination process is, with a confirmation vote scheduled no more than 90 days (this means a hearing is not dragged on forever), but no less than 60 days (so it is not rushed either).

Point 2 is to prevent abuse stemming from point 1. If a president tries to fill a vacancy and the Senate rejects nominees 3 times, then the president can nominate someone to serve as a recess appointment until the vacancy is filled or a new Congress is sworn in. In today's world, it means that if Obama had nominated Garland, the Senate needs to have either voted yes or no; if Obama had nominated two more people and the Senate rejected them, then the next person gets to sit in until the vacancy is filled with someone the Senate approves of or until the new Congress is sworn in.

Point 3 deals with the timeline. Any vacancy 3 months or less prior to a general election, no nominations or confirmation hearings will be scheduled, unless the nomination happened 3 months before the election (the overlap in time means the nomination meets point 1 and the Senate must act). The Chief Justices of the courts can call upon a reserve/senior judge to keep the balance in place until the vacancy is filled. This is especially needed during election season when a full bench is needed. However, no lame duck session confirmations or nominations will happen.

Point 4 deals with the Supreme Court and prohibits the court from hearing cases until the court is back at capacity. Any hearings scheduled during a time in which there will be a vacancy have to be rescheduled to a date when the court is back to capacity. This prevents deadlocked cases. The district/circuit courts have more people so those courts are not prevented from hearing cases.

Point 5 mandates that all judges retire by age 75. They can serve as senior/reserve judges if they so wish, ready to stand in when called upon by the Chief Justice of the court they served before retiring.

And point 6 establishes a minimum age for service. You must be at least 50 to be called into serving as a federal judge and you must have federal court experience to serve on the Supreme Court. This idea of nominating people who have never tried cases, are almost fresh out of law school, and giving them lifetime appointments to serve a political purpose must be brought to an end. You want to serve as a federal judge? You must meet the age requirement, and to serve on the Supreme Court, you must already be a district or circuit judge. No more promoting outsiders to courts.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:57 pm

The Senate elections that are relevant to this have already been held.

A public poll of any type is not relevant.
 
winginit
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:03 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
winginit wrote:
The GOP has proven time and time again that the will of the people couldn't matter less to them (both parties are guilty of this, but the GOP even more so.). Look at abortion or Obamacare - both are overwhelmingly popular in the United States to the tune of 60%+...

GOP still fight it every day tooth and nail


Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.


and yet that does not change the fact that both legalized abortion and Obamacare remain popular with the majority of the population of the United States, regardless of how the Electoral College decides elections.
 
meecrob
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:36 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
The Senate elections that are relevant to this have already been held.

A public poll of any type is not relevant.


Yeah, because who cares what the public thinks? This government by the people and for the people should totally not care what the people think.
 
stratosphere
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:00 pm

winginit wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
winginit wrote:
The GOP has proven time and time again that the will of the people couldn't matter less to them (both parties are guilty of this, but the GOP even more so.). Look at abortion or Obamacare - both are overwhelmingly popular in the United States to the tune of 60%+...

GOP still fight it every day tooth and nail


Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.


and yet that does not change the fact that both legalized abortion and Obamacare remain popular with the majority of the population of the United States, regardless of how the Electoral College decides elections.


I really don't see them trying to undo Roe V Wade it is established law as much hell raising as the Democrats did with both Gorsuch and Kavenaugh neither of them have shown any propensity to overturn that. Now Obamacare might be another story. But I absolutely did not like the crap the Democrats pulled in the Kavenaugh hearings. If the Republicans ever tried that with an Obama nominee there the MSM would have a total shitfit. The MSM was frying Kavenaugh along with the Democratic Senators all on a 30 years old trumped up (no pun intended) charge of sexual assault that no one could corroborate. Add to that the cast of clowns Michael Avanati brought forward saying they were assaulted. If they try anything like that with Amy Coney Barrett it will not go good for the Democrats I promise you.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:51 am

stratosphere wrote:
winginit wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.


and yet that does not change the fact that both legalized abortion and Obamacare remain popular with the majority of the population of the United States, regardless of how the Electoral College decides elections.


I really don't see them trying to undo Roe V Wade it is established law as much hell raising as the Democrats did with both Gorsuch and Kavenaugh neither of them have shown any propensity to overturn that. Now Obamacare might be another story. But I absolutely did not like the crap the Democrats pulled in the Kavenaugh hearings. If the Republicans ever tried that with an Obama nominee there the MSM would have a total shitfit. The MSM was frying Kavenaugh along with the Democratic Senators all on a 30 years old trumped up (no pun intended) charge of sexual assault that no one could corroborate. Add to that the cast of clowns Michael Avanati brought forward saying they were assaulted. If they try anything like that with Amy Coney Barrett it will not go good for the Democrats I promise you.


Why do we hold hearings? Why to find out what one can about the person, imagine that? If Barrett is a religious extremist, or not, we have a right to know and also what her beliefs are in all matters. We know she will shade her true tendencies as all do. White lies perhaps?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:14 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
Perhaps a constitutional amendment that defines the number of judges AND adds a new requirement to the confirmation process that could not be satisfied in time in the current year could be a solution for this predicament.


A suggestion amendment:

1. Confirmation process shall last a minimum of 90 days from the date of appointment for public review.
2. Prohibits the president from appointing a replacement judge during the lame-duck session.

Also, might be worth considering a mechanism for appointing an interim judge. Say, the longest-serving federal judge gets the job until the Senate confirms the next judge.

Edit: might be better to prohibit the Senate from confirming a replacement judge during the lame duck session.


Simple and excellent suggestions. Unfortunately the amendment threshold is still a very high bar to clear.


A threshold that I think should be reduced. Reducing the number of state legislatures required to adopt amendments from 3/4 down to 2/3 or 3/5 would be a small but I think significant help.

With such a high standard, it’s not surprising judicial philosophies besides the basics of textualism took root. Not enough breathing room and it’s too difficult to get a window opened.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:10 pm

winginit wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
winginit wrote:
The GOP has proven time and time again that the will of the people couldn't matter less to them (both parties are guilty of this, but the GOP even more so.). Look at abortion or Obamacare - both are overwhelmingly popular in the United States to the tune of 60%+...

GOP still fight it every day tooth and nail


Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.


and yet that does not change the fact that both legalized abortion and Obamacare remain popular with the majority of the population of the United States, regardless of how the Electoral College decides elections.



Exactly. The country has moved on from these issues and the majority support abortion, universal healthcare, gay marriage and so on. However, the Republicans refuse to join the 21st century and nothing gets done because everything’s tied up in these false, so called,culture wars. The right needs a perceived enemy to survive and always has. We’re essentially being held hostage by a minority of provincial, small minded rubes.
 
N867DA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:31 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
winginit wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.


and yet that does not change the fact that both legalized abortion and Obamacare remain popular with the majority of the population of the United States, regardless of how the Electoral College decides elections.



Exactly. The country has moved on from these issues and the majority support abortion, universal healthcare, gay marriage and so on. However, the Republicans refuse to join the 21st century and nothing gets done because everything’s tied up in these false, so called,culture wars. The right needs a perceived enemy to survive and always has. We’re essentially being held hostage by a minority of provincial, small minded rubes.


The country hasn't moved on from these issues because large swaths of the country still believe interracial marriage should be illegal, abortion should be a crime, and certain people should 'know their place'. This is quite old, but not old enough to ignore: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/interrac ... _n_1339827

Due to changes in where and how Americans live, our government is not set up to represent many tenets of the way people live. This is by design because it worked decently in a hardscrabble country with a predominantly rural population that accepted inequality among what we now call 'protected classes', but whether it is suitable for the modern world is to be determined.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:01 pm

You all do realize the two parties have swapped sides on the issue of confirming SCOTUS appointments during an election year?

“Protected class” is an anathema to anyone believing in “all men are created equal...”.
 
N867DA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:27 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You all do realize the two parties have swapped sides on the issue of confirming SCOTUS appointments during an election year?

“Protected class” is an anathema to anyone believing in “all men are created equal...”.


It’s not R versus D, but policy. I for one would happily vote Republican if the party supported public health care, environmental protection, and more liberal economic policy. They don’t, so I don’t.

We need protected classes today because all men (much less all people) were not created equally according to our government until fairly recently.

https://www.americanyawp.com/reader/27- ... ress-1965/

Notably, many of these rights were also derived from a liberal judicial wing that may be called ‘activist’ today.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
PPVRA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:29 am

N867DA wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You all do realize the two parties have swapped sides on the issue of confirming SCOTUS appointments during an election year?

“Protected class” is an anathema to anyone believing in “all men are created equal...”.


It’s not R versus D, but policy. I for one would happily vote Republican if the party supported public health care, environmental protection, and more liberal economic policy. They don’t, so I don’t.

We need protected classes today because all men (much less all people) were not created equally according to our government until fairly recently.

https://www.americanyawp.com/reader/27- ... ress-1965/

Notably, many of these rights were also derived from a liberal judicial wing that may be called ‘activist’ today.


The problem is that it’s not up to judges to create rights. It’s up to the people, the legislature, to fix problems in the law. This is basic separation of powers. We are not to be ruled by a group of judges who get to effectively create their own laws and then enforce them.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Ken777
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:00 am

NIKV69 wrote:
winginit wrote:
The GOP has proven time and time again that the will of the people couldn't matter less to them (both parties are guilty of this, but the GOP even more so.). Look at abortion or Obamacare - both are overwhelmingly popular in the United States to the tune of 60%+...

GOP still fight it every day tooth and nail


Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.


1. Actually I seem to remember that Clinton beat Trump by around 3 MILLION votes. In the US, however, the voters really don't count t as long as the EC is around.

2. Abortion is a queer issue. If the conservatives kill it then there will eb a lot of women who die because they will not be able to get the care they need to stay alive. Gotta make you proud. :vomit:

3. Killing ObamaCare? What is going to replace it?. The GOP has had 3+ years to come up with something better and they have failed. Now they are going to deliver a "better program between November and the Dems gaining power in January? Really? You actualy believe that? Did your retirement program invest in a famous bridge?

Reallity is that kill ObamaCare and you will be killing a lot of people as well as growing medical bankruptcies. Gotta make you proud?
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:28 am

Ken777 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
winginit wrote:
The GOP has proven time and time again that the will of the people couldn't matter less to them (both parties are guilty of this, but the GOP even more so.). Look at abortion or Obamacare - both are overwhelmingly popular in the United States to the tune of 60%+...

GOP still fight it every day tooth and nail


Trump would not have won if the country wanted far left Justices like RBG on the SC. Again elections have consequences.


1. Actually I seem to remember that Clinton beat Trump by around 3 MILLION votes. In the US, however, the voters really don't count t as long as the EC is around.

2. Abortion is a queer issue. If the conservatives kill it then there will eb a lot of women who die because they will not be able to get the care they need to stay alive. Gotta make you proud. :vomit:

3. Killing ObamaCare? What is going to replace it?. The GOP has had 3+ years to come up with something better and they have failed. Now they are going to deliver a "better program between November and the Dems gaining power in January? Really? You actualy believe that? Did your retirement program invest in a famous bridge?

Reallity is that kill ObamaCare and you will be killing a lot of people as well as growing medical bankruptcies. Gotta make you proud?





A very accurate summation of the current situation and the reality of what has been created as a result of the election of this Maniac. Dump the Electoral College to prevent this horror and chaos which has been visited on us as a result of it. :checkmark: :checkmark:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
N867DA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:48 am

PPVRA wrote:
N867DA wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You all do realize the two parties have swapped sides on the issue of confirming SCOTUS appointments during an election year?

“Protected class” is an anathema to anyone believing in “all men are created equal...”.


It’s not R versus D, but policy. I for one would happily vote Republican if the party supported public health care, environmental protection, and more liberal economic policy. They don’t, so I don’t.

We need protected classes today because all men (much less all people) were not created equally according to our government until fairly recently.

https://www.americanyawp.com/reader/27- ... ress-1965/

Notably, many of these rights were also derived from a liberal judicial wing that may be called ‘activist’ today.


The problem is that it’s not up to judges to create rights. It’s up to the people, the legislature, to fix problems in the law. This is basic separation of powers. We are not to be ruled by a group of judges who get to effectively create their own laws and then enforce them.


I agree, in theory.

In practice, anti-miscegenation and same-sex marriage law are still on the books in many jurisdictions and would be enforceable save for the thin foil between antiquity and the 21st century built by judges. It shouldn't be this way, but since legislature isn't willing to address these issues judges have. Whether it comes to campaign contributions or employers' obligation to provide birth control legislators have shirked their duty.

Because of this (or despite it) the way legislators vote is very different than national polls on many issues.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
PPVRA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:08 pm

N867DA wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
N867DA wrote:

It’s not R versus D, but policy. I for one would happily vote Republican if the party supported public health care, environmental protection, and more liberal economic policy. They don’t, so I don’t.

We need protected classes today because all men (much less all people) were not created equally according to our government until fairly recently.

https://www.americanyawp.com/reader/27- ... ress-1965/

Notably, many of these rights were also derived from a liberal judicial wing that may be called ‘activist’ today.


The problem is that it’s not up to judges to create rights. It’s up to the people, the legislature, to fix problems in the law. This is basic separation of powers. We are not to be ruled by a group of judges who get to effectively create their own laws and then enforce them.


I agree, in theory.

In practice, anti-miscegenation and same-sex marriage law are still on the books in many jurisdictions and would be enforceable save for the thin foil between antiquity and the 21st century built by judges. It shouldn't be this way, but since legislature isn't willing to address these issues judges have. Whether it comes to campaign contributions or employers' obligation to provide birth control legislators have shirked their duty.

Because of this (or despite it) the way legislators vote is very different than national polls on many issues.


Legislatures across this country have taken action to ban slavery, to give blacks and women the right to vote, to give homosexuals the right to marry, and now to give people the right to smoke marijuana. They also acted wrongly to ban alcohol, and then they acted again to fix their mistake.

Yeah, they didn’t all do this at the same time. Some took longer than others. But it gets there. The USA is a country of continental size and that means a lot of differences between regions. Flexibility and patience, from the national level, is essential for the country to work. One country, but not one thing.

And that includes respecting previously agreed on constitutional principles, like the separation of powers, and not subverting the system because you don’t think it moves fast enough.

I do think making it a little easier to pass constitutional amendments might ease some of this pressure for progress. Perhaps the current system is just too stiff, creating a disincentive to pursue change through the legislature and instead finding judicial shortcuts.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:44 pm

The still unratified Child Labor Amendment is a great example of the legislature letting the Supreme Court legislate.

Previous federal law regulating child labor was initially deemed unconstitutional. So Congress acted, passed an amendment and many many states signed on to it. But, given that the Supreme Court made a major U turn after FDR’s threat to pack the court and started approving his laws rather than rejecting them, interest in the amendment was lost and to this date, the USA does not have a solid constitutional authorization to regulate child labor. It does so based on a judicial philosophy that’s been questioned ever since and has been coming under increase scrutiny.

FYI that amendment could likely be passed today, if only there was an incentive to do it.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
extender
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:51 pm

Thank Harry Reid for this. Constitution is simple. There is no exception for dying declarations either.
 
ItnStln
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:29 pm

Ken777 wrote:
1. Actually I seem to remember that Clinton beat Trump by around 3 MILLION votes. In the US, however, the voters really don't count t as long as the EC is around.

I'm glad to see that the Constitution is working as the Framers intended.
 
PPVRA
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:38 pm

ItnStln wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
1. Actually I seem to remember that Clinton beat Trump by around 3 MILLION votes. In the US, however, the voters really don't count t as long as the EC is around.

I'm glad to see that the Constitution is working as the Framers intended.


Not entirely true. The Framers have nothing to do with winner takes all rules that the states adopted. Well most of the states, anyways.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
ItnStln
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:50 pm

PPVRA wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
1. Actually I seem to remember that Clinton beat Trump by around 3 MILLION votes. In the US, however, the voters really don't count t as long as the EC is around.

I'm glad to see that the Constitution is working as the Framers intended.


Not entirely true. The Framers have nothing to do with winner takes all rules that the states adopted. Well most of the states, anyways.

I was referring to the EC but I do agree with you about the winner takes all rule. That I am against and think it should be done to where the winner takes that EC vote and not the whole state.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:00 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
Six new USSC Seats filled with solid liberals should fit nicely


Offer to just add two, purely to make up for the Republicans violating their own precedence, if the constitution gets amended by a 2/3 majority requirement to confirm a new supreme court judges with deadlines when the Senate has to hold confirmation hearings, vote to confirm or not, and a hard limit when the vacant seat has to be filled, including what happens if it isn´t filled by that date. I recommend conclave the senators without phones, internet, media access locked into the building and sleeping on bunk beds until they do their job, by threat of imprisonment for violating those rules. No exceptions for health reasons either.

best regards
Thomas


Seriously. Republicans clearly can't follow their own rules they put on Democrats in 2016, so they should make them constitutional rules that nobody can break. Imagine if a justice had to be appointed in a few months, not ten or almost a year later.... stupid McC*cuss word*.

2 is a sane number. It's arbitrary. It would still mean the SC is conservative by a vote (albeit John Roberts has tried to be more of a swing vote, sometimes) since that would be 6-5, but... gosh dang, adding 4 new justices? End of the day they aren't the ones passing laws, just deciding if they're constitutional or not... which is still a big deal.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:33 am

CarlosSi wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
Six new USSC Seats filled with solid liberals should fit nicely


Offer to just add two, purely to make up for the Republicans violating their own precedence, if the constitution gets amended by a 2/3 majority requirement to confirm a new supreme court judges with deadlines when the Senate has to hold confirmation hearings, vote to confirm or not, and a hard limit when the vacant seat has to be filled, including what happens if it isn´t filled by that date. I recommend conclave the senators without phones, internet, media access locked into the building and sleeping on bunk beds until they do their job, by threat of imprisonment for violating those rules. No exceptions for health reasons either.

best regards
Thomas


Seriously. Republicans clearly can't follow their own rules they put on Democrats in 2016, so they should make them constitutional rules that nobody can break. Imagine if a justice had to be appointed in a few months, not ten or almost a year later.... stupid McC*cuss word*.

2 is a sane number. It's arbitrary. It would still mean the SC is conservative by a vote (albeit John Roberts has tried to be more of a swing vote, sometimes) since that would be 6-5, but... gosh dang, adding 4 new justices? End of the day they aren't the ones passing laws, just deciding if they're constitutional or not... which is still a big deal.


that is why adding two judges is the right thing to do. It just restores the status before the GOP transgression, and trying to spin that into a power grab is kinda hard under those circumstances. Since it requires democrats to have a senate majority to do that it will work just fine, especially considering the 4 extra Senators the USA is likely going to get.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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WarRI1
Topic Author
Posts: 14194
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Poll shows that Republicans should wait until after the Election to replace RBG. by 13 %

Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:46 am

tommy1808 wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Offer to just add two, purely to make up for the Republicans violating their own precedence, if the constitution gets amended by a 2/3 majority requirement to confirm a new supreme court judges with deadlines when the Senate has to hold confirmation hearings, vote to confirm or not, and a hard limit when the vacant seat has to be filled, including what happens if it isn´t filled by that date. I recommend conclave the senators without phones, internet, media access locked into the building and sleeping on bunk beds until they do their job, by threat of imprisonment for violating those rules. No exceptions for health reasons either.

best regards
Thomas


Seriously. Republicans clearly can't follow their own rules they put on Democrats in 2016, so they should make them constitutional rules that nobody can break. Imagine if a justice had to be appointed in a few months, not ten or almost a year later.... stupid McC*cuss word*.

2 is a sane number. It's arbitrary. It would still mean the SC is conservative by a vote (albeit John Roberts has tried to be more of a swing vote, sometimes) since that would be 6-5, but... gosh dang, adding 4 new justices? End of the day they aren't the ones passing laws, just deciding if they're constitutional or not... which is still a big deal.


that is why adding two judges is the right thing to do. It just restores the status before the GOP transgression, and trying to spin that into a power grab is kinda hard under those circumstances. Since it requires democrats to have a senate majority to do that it will work just fine, especially considering the 4 extra Senators the USA is likely going to get.

best regards
Thomas


I agree completely, when dealing with rats, you have to think and act like a rat yourself to survive.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.

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