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NIKV69
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:10 pm

casinterest wrote:

You are aware of Fox news right? The network that a judge stated no reasonable person could believe what they say. Correct? Yet Millions of Trump cultists buy it all .

We know Trumps tax records are available, and we know Trump is under Audit. You know the most telling thing? Trump avoided directly talking about the Taxes, and the illegality within them as he does not want to be on record since the audit's are still on.

Plus we have all these amazing gems.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-tw ... 07781.html


Seems to me Trump is a con artist, and the GOP loves him for lying to the country.


Fox news has nothing to do with this. How do you know Trumps tax records are available? It's against the law to release them. I am beginning to think the NYT doesn't have any documents and went to print with the word of somebody they don't have to name because you know media doesn't have to do that when they break a story? Seems to me the only con artists are the NYTs who have you all believing something we can't even corroborate.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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scbriml
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:32 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I will note that Trump has also not produced any legit documents to back up most of his claims

Tugg


He doesn't have to produce his taxes but a media outlet needs to back up stories.


Trump needs to back up his promise to release his tax records and stop hiding behind the "audit" bs excuse.
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Sokes
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:21 pm

It seems Biden already wrote a bestseller. Also the company who made the 8 million $ book deal is reputable for publishing bestsellers.
I therefore apologize for my earlier sarcastic remark.
However then there are his speeches. Why would a university pay nearly 200.000 $ for a speech?

I believe politician's salaries are never high enough.
I believe that's a general rule for democracies. If a senator got two million $ per year plus 500.000 $ retirement benefit lifelong he may be willing to agree not to have any other income.

But this suggestion will be judged by the fairness towards average salaries, not by its effect on policies.

Maybe this dependency on payments from speeches is not only bad. I don't desire that the true public opinion rules.
If only the rich wouldn't overdo it so badly.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Tugger
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:33 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Fox news has nothing to do with this. How do you know Trumps tax records are available? It's against the law to release them. I am beginning to think the NYT doesn't have any documents and went to print with the word of somebody they don't have to name because you know media doesn't have to do that when they break a story? Seems to me the only con artists are the NYTs who have you all believing something we can't even corroborate.

I am fairly certain that the reason NYT will not release the documents is because it is illegal to release them and they do not wish to be sued. So they have validated that the documents are real, have reviewed them, and have published their findings. I also believe that they will release the documents or they will be validated when Trumps tax information is released for some other reason (via some other path) and they become publicly available.

As you and others have noted about Biden, there is a real public benefit, and I think need, to seeing a potential presidents tax statements, to have a legally binding document of their incomes and financial status. This is the presidency we are talking about.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
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casinterest
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:33 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

You are aware of Fox news right? The network that a judge stated no reasonable person could believe what they say. Correct? Yet Millions of Trump cultists buy it all .

We know Trumps tax records are available, and we know Trump is under Audit. You know the most telling thing? Trump avoided directly talking about the Taxes, and the illegality within them as he does not want to be on record since the audit's are still on.

Plus we have all these amazing gems.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-tw ... 07781.html


Seems to me Trump is a con artist, and the GOP loves him for lying to the country.


Fox news has nothing to do with this. How do you know Trumps tax records are available? It's against the law to release them. I am beginning to think the NYT doesn't have any documents and went to print with the word of somebody they don't have to name because you know media doesn't have to do that when they break a story? Seems to me the only con artists are the NYTs who have you all believing something we can't even corroborate.



You are the one that made the claim that the NYT has to produce evidence. The answer is they don't
Fox news even knows that.
NYT though does have to verify and vet their sources. All Trump has to do to prove them wrong is release his Taxes like he promised. Where are his faithful followers in making him follow through with his promise? Trump won't release his taxes because he likes to keep the gullible masses following him as he fleeces them of jobs and futures for their children.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:43 pm

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

You are aware of Fox news right? The network that a judge stated no reasonable person could believe what they say. Correct? Yet Millions of Trump cultists buy it all .

We know Trumps tax records are available, and we know Trump is under Audit. You know the most telling thing? Trump avoided directly talking about the Taxes, and the illegality within them as he does not want to be on record since the audit's are still on.

Plus we have all these amazing gems.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-tw ... 07781.html


Seems to me Trump is a con artist, and the GOP loves him for lying to the country.


Fox news has nothing to do with this. How do you know Trumps tax records are available? It's against the law to release them. I am beginning to think the NYT doesn't have any documents and went to print with the word of somebody they don't have to name because you know media doesn't have to do that when they break a story? Seems to me the only con artists are the NYTs who have you all believing something we can't even corroborate.



You are the one that made the claim that the NYT has to produce evidence. The answer is they don't
Fox news even knows that.
NYT though does have to verify and vet their sources. All Trump has to do to prove them wrong is release his Taxes like he promised. Where are his faithful followers in making him follow through with his promise? Trump won't release his taxes because he likes to keep the gullible masses following him as he fleeces them of jobs and futures for their children.


They also have an obligation to protect sources taking personal and professional risks to provide critical information to the public.

Those clamoring for NYT ‘proof’ here are acting like it would be completely ethical to go against what has been agreed to with sources who came forward in good faith. And they are lying if they have this position and claim to know the story of “All the President’s Men”
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
NIKV69
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:02 am

Aaron747 wrote:
They also have an obligation to protect sources taking personal and professional risks to provide critical information to the public.


Helping someone who has committed a felony is a little different. They need to produce the documents or retract the story.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:07 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
They also have an obligation to protect sources taking personal and professional risks to provide critical information to the public.


Helping someone who has committed a felony is a little different. They need to produce the documents or retract the story.


That’s not the bar here, ethics in journalism professor. Now you’re saying every whistleblower ever should have kept quiet.

Any number of attorneys, accountants, compliance officers or auditors could have these records and share (not give) them with NYT. NYT investigations unit would not run a story of this caliber without being certain they were authentic. If you believe they would you have not bothered looking into the reputations of their investigations editors.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
NIKV69
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:22 am

Aaron747 wrote:
That’s not the bar here, ethics in journalism professor. Now you’re saying every whistleblower ever should have kept quiet.

.


There is no crime here. So not sure why you are calling the person who gave the NYT trumps tax document (If that is even true) a whistleblower?

Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:28 am

Tugger wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
That’s what Congress got ya!

So the tax laws need to be better aligned so that people cannot write off so much that they negate the appropriate tax burden? You are suggesting a better enforced AMT?

Tugg


Flat tax on income from all sources plus a national VAT, total scheme being revenue neutral. For those screaming regressive, income tax would have a large, like median income sized, standard deduction only. VAT could be heavily weighted toward Pigovian goals like carbon reduction, sin taxes. Eliminate corporate taxes which are the reason for all these shenanigans. If you’re going to tax profits you have to assess revenue minus COGS which creates devices like depreciation of appreciating assets.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
They also have an obligation to protect sources taking personal and professional risks to provide critical information to the public.


Helping someone who has committed a felony is a little different. They need to produce the documents or retract the story.


That’s not the bar here, ethics in journalism professor. Now you’re saying every whistleblower ever should have kept quiet.

Any number of attorneys, accountants, compliance officers or auditors could have these records and share (not give) them with NYT. NYT investigations unit would not run a story of this caliber without being certain they were authentic. If you believe they would you have not bothered looking into the reputations of their investigations editors.


Any number of those attorneys, accountants know the law and should know they have a fiduciary responsibility to their principal to abide by the law. If an attorney released or shared the records, they’re in contempt of court.

If this illegality is okay with you, perhaps your legal and financial records should public. Which, by the way, they are in some countries.
 
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casinterest
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:43 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
That’s not the bar here, ethics in journalism professor. Now you’re saying every whistleblower ever should have kept quiet.

.


There is no crime here. So not sure why you are calling the person who gave the NYT trumps tax document (If that is even true) a whistleblower?

Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.


He was just making the President's wishes comes True. The President promised to release his taxes and he never lies right.
This was a citizen doing his civic duty where Trump failed to remember his.


it is so funny to see how much Trump supporters care about crimes when it isn't a Trump agenda.

Have you demanded Trump resign due to his FEDERAL ELECTIONS VIOLATIONS and FRAUD?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:03 am

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
That’s not the bar here, ethics in journalism professor. Now you’re saying every whistleblower ever should have kept quiet.

.


There is no crime here. So not sure why you are calling the person who gave the NYT trumps tax document (If that is even true) a whistleblower?

Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.


He was just making the President's wishes comes True. The President promised to release his taxes and he never lies right.
This was a citizen doing his civic duty where Trump failed to remember his.


it is so funny to see how much Trump supporters care about crimes when it isn't a Trump agenda.

Have you demanded Trump resign due to his FEDERAL ELECTIONS VIOLATIONS and FRAUD?


Where does Trump or casinterest have a civil duty to release their tax records? I don’t see it.

BTW, the tax audit dodge is because the Trump audit is tied up in Congress’ Joint Committee on Taxation. And, the carry back tax provision Trump used to get that refund was signed into law, as a stimulus item, by......wait for it.....Barack Obama and passed by a Democratic Congress.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:30 am

extender wrote:
Look up professional services... Most hair stylists are licensed. I guess you can include courtesans too, but that is for another thread. Biden pays 3.5M in taxes? What is his income? How did he get that s a civil servant? But no, let's get Trump.

Per U.S. Tax Court, the costs of maintaining an appealing appearance are not eligible deductible expenses, even for public personalities, and the Tax Court has repeatedly ruled against people who make such deductions in their tax filings. See this judgment as the prime example:

https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/UstcInOp2/Op ... 8+8d0+8e2+

The opinion states, "Although these expenses may be related to her job, expenses that are inherently personal are nondeductible personal expenses."

That ruling also cited an earlier opinion, Hynes v. Commissioner. In a summary of that case, the U.S. Tax Court said an on-air personality's contract with her TV station that requires a neat appearance "does not elevate these personal expenses to a deductible business expense."

The money involved in each of those cases was very small compared with the figures cited by the Times from the Trump tax documents. In the Hamper case, for instance, the disputed amounts in the anchor's tax returns totalled less than $5,000 each year — and that figure includes other expenses, such as clothing.
 
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casinterest
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:50 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

There is no crime here. So not sure why you are calling the person who gave the NYT trumps tax document (If that is even true) a whistleblower?

Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.


He was just making the President's wishes comes True. The President promised to release his taxes and he never lies right.
This was a citizen doing his civic duty where Trump failed to remember his.


it is so funny to see how much Trump supporters care about crimes when it isn't a Trump agenda.

Have you demanded Trump resign due to his FEDERAL ELECTIONS VIOLATIONS and FRAUD?


Where does Trump or casinterest have a civil duty to release their tax records? I don’t see it.

BTW, the tax audit dodge is because the Trump audit is tied up in Congress’ Joint Committee on Taxation. And, the carry back tax provision Trump used to get that refund was signed into law, as a stimulus item, by......wait for it.....Barack Obama and passed by a Democratic Congress.



By Gentleman's agreement. Trump even agreed to it. But like the lying , no integrity coward he is. he balked when he realized he would go to jail.
Trump's tax records are out there, and they should be public. Especially since it appears he is committing quite a bit of fraud.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:00 am

NIKV69 wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
why isn't he cashing his paycheck to be president. It looks like he can use his salary.


He donates it so he can write that off too. I think everyone here should learn tax law before they throw bombs. Also I can't wait to see who gets convicted of a felony for giving this info to the times and if the times actually releases the document because all we have now is their word and it's not worth anything.


i happen to have a degree in accounting, his core businesses are losing money, he's pulled his investments out of the stock market. He should of kept them in the market. Then he has large loans due in four years without any income. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that he needs to cash his paycheck, and stop paying his daughter consulting fee's. This would be funny, if it wasn't so sad. If something doesn't change soon, I see him having to file for bankruptcy on his golf courses. Obviously none of his children know how to run a business.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:14 am

NIKV69 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
I have to laugh at his brainless supporters who come out with statements like:
1. But he donates his presidential salary so that covers enough taxes (yeah...never mind that he still owns Trump Org and profits from it...where are the taxes from that?)
2. It's not his fault there are loopholes in the tax code. Everyone will try to save as much money as they can. (True, except a successful businessman would always be paying SOME taxes instead of carrying over about $1B in losses for subsequent years. A successful businessman would also be making profits all the time rather than sinking money into losing investments to them claim them as write-offs. And funny how the new tax law seems to benefit him as well.)
3. Amazon and other billionaires likely paid $0 in taxes (that may be, but none of them are running for reelection or serving in public offices while profiting from their brand)
4. Taxes are not public records so we shouldn't know what's in them (ah, but school records, DNA tests, and drug tests of political opponents are...)
5. These returns were obtained illegally (strays from addressing what's in them)

You can tell that this won't really affect the numbers for him at all, unless Biden can come out with an effective hit point during the debates.


Don't forget as people that own real estate pay zero tax on a sold property if they invest the profit into more land within a year. Again many here need to learn how these things work instead of looking through partisan glasses.

Immelt gained more than Trump by using the tax code and if he did run or president he would have got a pass I think that is why it's relevant.

Yes indeed if the NYT has his taxes (which has not been verified) whoever leaked them should be charged and should be prosecuted.


Here's the thing you missed, everybody knows how Trump mistreats his staff at the WH. I would suspect that he has so my disgruntled former and current employee's that it was more than one individual who turned over his taxes, especially since they have taxes for 20 years.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:56 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Helping someone who has committed a felony is a little different. They need to produce the documents or retract the story.


That’s not the bar here, ethics in journalism professor. Now you’re saying every whistleblower ever should have kept quiet.

Any number of attorneys, accountants, compliance officers or auditors could have these records and share (not give) them with NYT. NYT investigations unit would not run a story of this caliber without being certain they were authentic. If you believe they would you have not bothered looking into the reputations of their investigations editors.


Any number of those attorneys, accountants know the law and should know they have a fiduciary responsibility to their principal to abide by the law. If an attorney released or shared the records, they’re in contempt of court.

If this illegality is okay with you, perhaps your legal and financial records should public. Which, by the way, they are in some countries.


Many judges have waived illegalities for actions taken in the public interest. Dr. Weigand violated state law and committed breach of contract when he came forward with all the B&W tobacco data fixing, but the public and Congress were very thankful for it.

Given high debt exposure is a possible national security threat serious enough to invalidate qualification for federal jobs, it’s certainly in the public interest to know where/what Trump’s debt situation is.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
tommy1808
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:40 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
And in this case probably not just who does he own that debt to, but who can at any time leak proof that the President committed bank and/or tax fraud.

It's not even related to that...it's the whole aspect of blackmailing. A Russian agent may not need to know that Trump has committed fraud; all they would need to do is have him do their work for them in exchange for time to come up with payment or in lieu of payment..


That would just be another bankruptcy, and that wouldn´t scare Donald Trump much. Just like i don´t think any home video of the wet kind would. The chance of really, really going to prison is probably the only scary thing to him, especially if his kids are in on it, and might face the same fate. As i stated several times, i do believe that Trump has so obviously slipped further into less sane behavior makes by far most sense if he believes he is going to be the former President to actually be locked up if he can´t outlast statues of limitations.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:34 am

tommy1808 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
And in this case probably not just who does he own that debt to, but who can at any time leak proof that the President committed bank and/or tax fraud.

It's not even related to that...it's the whole aspect of blackmailing. A Russian agent may not need to know that Trump has committed fraud; all they would need to do is have him do their work for them in exchange for time to come up with payment or in lieu of payment..


That would just be another bankruptcy, and that wouldn´t scare Donald Trump much. Just like i don´t think any home video of the wet kind would. The chance of really, really going to prison is probably the only scary thing to him, especially if his kids are in on it, and might face the same fate. As i stated several times, i do believe that Trump has so obviously slipped further into less sane behavior makes by far most sense if he believes he is going to be the former President to actually be locked up if he can´t outlast statues of limitations.

best regards
Thomas


Actually lost in the din of distractions is that Trump and Jeff Epstein utilized the same loan unit at Deutsche Bank. Trump’s a known quantity to every US institution, so what made DB feel so secure to extend him capital? Perhaps there’s much more to the Epstein saga than we’ll ever know. All my friends in finance have their pet theories on this.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:36 am

Sokes wrote:
It seems Biden already wrote a bestseller. Also the company who made the 8 million $ book deal is reputable for publishing bestsellers.
I therefore apologize for my earlier sarcastic remark.

However then there are his speeches. Why would a university pay nearly 200.000 $ for a speech?
This is NOT at all unusual.
UK Prime Minister Tony Blair made plenty of $$$ on the speaking circuit after he left office.

In one classic case, he expected $420,000 to make a 20 minute speech at... a World Hunger Conference. :rotfl:
And in another, over $½million for two 30 minute speeches.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... peech.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politi ... eches.html

It's a bit like those TV programmes where celebrities we've never heard of, compete to win $2,500 "for charity".
Nobody asks about the $10k appearance fees these celebs are probably getting, or the $100k advertising revenue the programme brings in.

It's a wicked world out there. :roll:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:50 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.

Exposing a private citizen's taxes is definitely a felony (it serves no purpose and the citizen is not in an elected position). But Trump is not a private citizen as of January 20, 2017. Therefore, his records as president should be made public to dispel any indication that he's acting to benefit himself rather than in the interest of the nation.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:33 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.

Exposing a private citizen's taxes is definitely a felony (it serves no purpose and the citizen is not in an elected position). But Trump is not a private citizen as of January 20, 2017. Therefore, his records as president should be made public to dispel any indication that he's acting to benefit himself rather than in the interest of the nation.


On CNN earlier, Watergate prosecutor Akerman laid out some interesting points about potential felonies committed by Trump in his tax scheme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwcdE6fsjwc
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Francoflier
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:01 pm

An interesting video from a lawyer about Trump's tax returns highlighting the expected quagmire of shady practices, red flags and outright lies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28yrkIzVXys

Basically all the hallmarks of massive and generalized fraud and possible money laundering.
No indictment possible from just that document of course, but there certainly will be a ton of fraud investigations and lawsuits in Trump's future (then again, his entire life has been one continuous lawsuit).
Basically, he's either so incompetent that he is incapable of making money from any of his businesses or he just cooks the books to report losses everywhere to avoid paying taxes.
Then there's the very dubious money from abroad, and not from any of countries one would consider pillars of democracy and integrity.
Oh, and he's so bad at business that not only do the vast majority of his ventures fail, he also owes over $400 million dollars to God knows who, God knows where... (Deutsche Bank might know :scratchchin: )

It's a mess. This would be ugly even for any old shady businessman, but the president of the United States?
The conflicts of interests alone... :vomit:
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
NIKV69
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:06 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.

Exposing a private citizen's taxes is definitely a felony (it serves no purpose and the citizen is not in an elected position). But Trump is not a private citizen as of January 20, 2017. Therefore, his records as president should be made public to dispel any indication that he's acting to benefit himself rather than in the interest of the nation.


Says who? Even if this was remotely true it would need a court to rule he has to release them you can't without authorization leak someones taxes. It'a against the law and the person who did this should be prosecuted.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
ItnStln
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:54 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.

Exposing a private citizen's taxes is definitely a felony (it serves no purpose and the citizen is not in an elected position). But Trump is not a private citizen as of January 20, 2017. Therefore, his records as president should be made public to dispel any indication that he's acting to benefit himself rather than in the interest of the nation.


Says who? Even if this was remotely true it would need a court to rule he has to release them you can't without authorization leak someones taxes. It'a against the law and the person who did this should be prosecuted.

That person should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
 
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casinterest
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:56 pm

Francoflier wrote:
An interesting video from a lawyer about Trump's tax returns highlighting the expected quagmire of shady practices, red flags and outright lies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28yrkIzVXys

Basically all the hallmarks of massive and generalized fraud and possible money laundering.
No indictment possible from just that document of course, but there certainly will be a ton of fraud investigations and lawsuits in Trump's future (then again, his entire life has been one continuous lawsuit).
Basically, he's either so incompetent that he is incapable of making money from any of his businesses or he just cooks the books to report losses everywhere to avoid paying taxes.
Then there's the very dubious money from abroad, and not from any of countries one would consider pillars of democracy and integrity.
Oh, and he's so bad at business that not only do the vast majority of his ventures fail, he also owes over $400 million dollars to God knows who, God knows where... (Deutsche Bank might know :scratchchin: )

It's a mess. This would be ugly even for any old shady businessman, but the president of the United States?
The conflicts of interests alone... :vomit:



It will get very ugly, especially if that rumored connection between Duetche Bank, and Russian Intelligence Banking is proved true.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
wingman
Posts: 4056
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:38 pm

ItnStln wrote:
That person should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


And he will be. As soon as Trump leaves office the investigations and indictments (Inshallah!) will rain down on his orange head. I'm with you man, he must face justice!
 
alfa164
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:11 pm

wingman wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
That person should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

And he will be. As soon as Trump leaves office the investigations and indictments (Inshallah!) will rain down on his orange head. I'm with you man, he must face justice!


He'll be the first inmate who looks the same whether he is wearing his prison jump suit or standing there naked!


:lol:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
ItnStln
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:18 pm

wingman wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
That person should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


And he will be. As soon as Trump leaves office the investigations and indictments (Inshallah!) will rain down on his orange head. I'm with you man, he must face justice!
The person who committed a felony and leaked President Trump's tax return is the one who needs to be prosecuted.
 
ItnStln
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:22 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.

Exposing a private citizen's taxes is definitely a felony (it serves no purpose and the citizen is not in an elected position). But Trump is not a private citizen as of January 20, 2017. Therefore, his records as president should be made public to dispel any indication that he's acting to benefit himself rather than in the interest of the nation.
Should be doesn't make what the person did in leaking them not a felony. Leaking anyone's tax return is a felony and the leaker must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
 
alfa164
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:38 pm

ItnStln wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Exposing someone's taxes to an outside agency is felony sir. This person is a felon.

Exposing a private citizen's taxes is definitely a felony (it serves no purpose and the citizen is not in an elected position). But Trump is not a private citizen as of January 20, 2017. Therefore, his records as president should be made public to dispel any indication that he's acting to benefit himself rather than in the interest of the nation.
Should be doesn't make what the person did in leaking them not a felony. Leaking anyone's tax return is a felony and the leaker must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.


Really? Where did you get your Law Degree?

I might guess Trump University...


;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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Tugger
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:46 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Says who? Even if this was remotely true it would need a court to rule he has to release them you can't without authorization leak someones taxes. It'a against the law and the person who did this should be prosecuted.

Why should this be prosecuted? Trump has stated clearly that he WANTS his taxes released, just that he can't because his lawyers have told him he can't while they are under audit. This is obviously faulty advice but Trump clearly wants them released. He has stated this so why does a court need to authorize it?
/s

Of course I am pulling your leg. Trump lies and has no intention of releasing anything. He just makes statements for whatever the consumer, or whatever his base wants to hear. So his claim that he want his taxes released is a lie. Trump basicly lies more blatantly than almost any other politician out there. But his statement is still out there and a court should take it at face value.

And finally, the USA cannot afford a president who cannot afford to release his taxes. Aka validate against a charge of perjury, years of documentation showing where they have their financial allegiance and interests.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
ItnStln
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:55 pm

Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Says who? Even if this was remotely true it would need a court to rule he has to release them you can't without authorization leak someones taxes. It'a against the law and the person who did this should be prosecuted.

Why should this be prosecuted? Trump has stated clearly that he WANTS his taxes released, just that he can't because his lawyers have told him he can't while they are under audit. This is obviously faulty advice but Trump clearly wants them released. He has stated this so why does a court need to authorize it?
/s

Of course I am pulling your leg. Trump lies and has no intention of releasing anything. He just makes statements for whatever the consumer, or whatever his base wants to hear. So his claim that he want his taxes released is a lie. Trump basicly lies more blatantly than almost any other politician out there. But his statement is still out there and a court should take it at face value.

And finally, the USA cannot afford a president who cannot afford to release his taxes. Aka validate against a charge of perjury, years of documentation showing where they have their financial allegiance and interests.

Tugg
The person should be prosecuted for how they were released.
 
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Tugger
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:15 pm

ItnStln wrote:
The person should be prosecuted for how they were released.

Of course we don't actually know if they have been released. I guess it is possible they weer just "viewed" with detailed noted taken. But I understand, prosecution is per the law for the most part (I guess Trump could decide not to press charges since it's what he's wanted... oh wait we already went over this :spin: ).

However there are things that are done illegally that should still be done. The release of Trump's taxes, in my opinion (especially since he has stated it's what he wants) is something that does need to happen one way or the other. Legally or otherwise.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
ItnStln
Posts: 192
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:33 pm

Tugger wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
The person should be prosecuted for how they were released.

Of course we don't actually know if they have been released. I guess it is possible they weer just "viewed" with detailed noted taken. But I understand, prosecution is per the law for the most part (I guess Trump could decide not to press charges since it's what he's wanted... oh wait we already went over this :spin: ).

However there are things that are done illegally that should still be done. The release of Trump's taxes, in my opinion (especially since he has stated it's what he wants) is something that does need to happen one way or the other. Legally or otherwise.

Tugg


How they were obtained is illegal. In fact it's a felony. I don't see how people can defend this. It doesn't matter if they were just viewed someone was given access to them and that constitutes a felony. How can you advocate for illegally releasing President Trump's taxes? What about someone illegally releasing obama's birth certificate? Are you okay with that?
 
NIKV69
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:56 pm

ItnStln wrote:
How they were obtained is illegal. In fact it's a felony. I don't see how people can defend this. It doesn't matter if they were just viewed someone was given access to them and that constitutes a felony. How can you advocate for illegally releasing President Trump's taxes? What about someone illegally releasing obama's birth certificate? Are you okay with that?


It's an R and D thing. If you are trying to smear one party you are hero whistleblower if the other way around you are a Russian operative interfering in an election.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
FGITD
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:00 pm

ItnStln wrote:
Tugger wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
The person should be prosecuted for how they were released.

Of course we don't actually know if they have been released. I guess it is possible they weer just "viewed" with detailed noted taken. But I understand, prosecution is per the law for the most part (I guess Trump could decide not to press charges since it's what he's wanted... oh wait we already went over this :spin: ).

However there are things that are done illegally that should still be done. The release of Trump's taxes, in my opinion (especially since he has stated it's what he wants) is something that does need to happen one way or the other. Legally or otherwise.

Tugg


How they were obtained is illegal. In fact it's a felony. I don't see how people can defend this. It doesn't matter if they were just viewed someone was given access to them and that constitutes a felony. How can you advocate for illegally releasing President Trump's taxes? What about someone illegally releasing obama's birth certificate? Are you okay with that?


Aren’t republicans the party of “if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear"?

If so, don't worry about it. Surely he's done nothing wrong and therefore has nothing to fear
 
ItnStln
Posts: 192
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:04 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
How they were obtained is illegal. In fact it's a felony. I don't see how people can defend this. It doesn't matter if they were just viewed someone was given access to them and that constitutes a felony. How can you advocate for illegally releasing President Trump's taxes? What about someone illegally releasing obama's birth certificate? Are you okay with that?


It's an R and D thing. If you are trying to smear one party you are hero whistleblower if the other way around you are a Russian operative interfering in an election.
That's what I assumed.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 14049
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:46 pm

ItnStln wrote:
Tugger wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
The person should be prosecuted for how they were released.

Of course we don't actually know if they have been released. I guess it is possible they weer just "viewed" with detailed noted taken. But I understand, prosecution is per the law for the most part (I guess Trump could decide not to press charges since it's what he's wanted... oh wait we already went over this :spin: ).

However there are things that are done illegally that should still be done. The release of Trump's taxes, in my opinion (especially since he has stated it's what he wants) is something that does need to happen one way or the other. Legally or otherwise.

Tugg


How they were obtained is illegal. In fact it's a felony. I don't see how people can defend this. It doesn't matter if they were just viewed someone was given access to them and that constitutes a felony. How can you advocate for illegally releasing President Trump's taxes? What about someone illegally releasing obama's birth certificate? Are you okay with that?


Birth certificate release is a non sequitur.

Pretty odd how you’re laser-focused on felonious release of documents whilst seemingly unconcerned about felonious charity fraud and possible money laundering.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Tugger
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:54 pm

ItnStln wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
How they were obtained is illegal. In fact it's a felony. I don't see how people can defend this. It doesn't matter if they were just viewed someone was given access to them and that constitutes a felony. How can you advocate for illegally releasing President Trump's taxes? What about someone illegally releasing obama's birth certificate? Are you okay with that?


It's an R and D thing. If you are trying to smear one party you are hero whistleblower if the other way around you are a Russian operative interfering in an election.
That's what I assumed.

Then you assumed wrong.

Yes, I am OK with the idea of "Obama's birth certificate" being released (THAT would have saved a bunch or moronic-ness). Again, as I have stated, I absolutely think that someone that wants to be the president needs, and must is they want to be considered, release their taxes. No exceptions. I get that it is not required but it is also not required that someone run for office. Especially nowadays the world needs to know the encumbrances that a potential president has.(And Trump commited to do so.) The US citizenry must not have a bought and sold person in the office. No exceptions.

So I am absolutely OK with someone going to jail over releasing such things. (Maybe the President will pardon them! I mean pardons with political reasons are absolutely OK nowadays in particular).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
ItnStln
Posts: 192
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:19 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Of course we don't actually know if they have been released. I guess it is possible they weer just "viewed" with detailed noted taken. But I understand, prosecution is per the law for the most part (I guess Trump could decide not to press charges since it's what he's wanted... oh wait we already went over this :spin: ).

However there are things that are done illegally that should still be done. The release of Trump's taxes, in my opinion (especially since he has stated it's what he wants) is something that does need to happen one way or the other. Legally or otherwise.

Tugg


How they were obtained is illegal. In fact it's a felony. I don't see how people can defend this. It doesn't matter if they were just viewed someone was given access to them and that constitutes a felony. How can you advocate for illegally releasing President Trump's taxes? What about someone illegally releasing obama's birth certificate? Are you okay with that?


Birth certificate release is a non sequitur.

Pretty odd how you’re laser-focused on felonious release of documents whilst seemingly unconcerned about felonious charity fraud and possible money laundering.


It's not a non sequitur. People wanted obama's birth certificate released but he wouldn't. It's a valid analogy, you just don't like it.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:23 pm

ItnStln wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:

How they were obtained is illegal. In fact it's a felony. I don't see how people can defend this. It doesn't matter if they were just viewed someone was given access to them and that constitutes a felony. How can you advocate for illegally releasing President Trump's taxes? What about someone illegally releasing obama's birth certificate? Are you okay with that?


Birth certificate release is a non sequitur.

Pretty odd how you’re laser-focused on felonious release of documents whilst seemingly unconcerned about felonious charity fraud and possible money laundering.


It's not a non sequitur. People wanted obama's birth certificate released but he wouldn't. It's a valid analogy, you just don't like it.


And then he eventually did, unlike Trump, who still claims audit this, audit that...for over four years. There is no logical following between the birth certificate issue and release of taxes. Next fallacy?

And that was a half response. What say ye on financial crimes?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ItnStln
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:28 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Birth certificate release is a non sequitur.

Pretty odd how you’re laser-focused on felonious release of documents whilst seemingly unconcerned about felonious charity fraud and possible money laundering.


It's not a non sequitur. People wanted obama's birth certificate released but he wouldn't. It's a valid analogy, you just don't like it.


And then he eventually did, unlike Trump, who still claims audit this, audit that...for over four years. There is no logical following between the birth certificate issue and release of taxes. Next fallacy?

And that was a half response. What say ye on financial crimes?


I've been audited a few times and the first thing my attorney told me was not to discuss my taxes with anyone but him. So I'm not surprised there. My first audit took over 2 years. There is a logical following because your side kept saying obama didn't have to release his birth certificate. The analogy is valid and therefore stands. Just like I said you don't like it and that's your problem with it.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:25 am

ItnStln wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:

It's not a non sequitur. People wanted obama's birth certificate released but he wouldn't. It's a valid analogy, you just don't like it.


And then he eventually did, unlike Trump, who still claims audit this, audit that...for over four years. There is no logical following between the birth certificate issue and release of taxes. Next fallacy?

And that was a half response. What say ye on financial crimes?


I've been audited a few times and the first thing my attorney told me was not to discuss my taxes with anyone but him. So I'm not surprised there. My first audit took over 2 years. There is a logical following because your side kept saying obama didn't have to release his birth certificate. The analogy is valid and therefore stands. Just like I said you don't like it and that's your problem with it.


‘My side’ includes independents like myself who only care about what’s factually correct. There is zero logical following: county officials in Honolulu verified Obama was born there, which is why many said he didn’t need to release them. He only released them later because the idiot fervor continued unabated.

That is NOT the same as Trump’s neverending claim that he cannot release while under audit - the IRS commissioner says that’s untrue.

https://www.axios.com/trump-tax-returns ... fb734.html
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 14195
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:33 am

Aaron747 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

And then he eventually did, unlike Trump, who still claims audit this, audit that...for over four years. There is no logical following between the birth certificate issue and release of taxes. Next fallacy?

And that was a half response. What say ye on financial crimes?


I've been audited a few times and the first thing my attorney told me was not to discuss my taxes with anyone but him. So I'm not surprised there. My first audit took over 2 years. There is a logical following because your side kept saying obama didn't have to release his birth certificate. The analogy is valid and therefore stands. Just like I said you don't like it and that's your problem with it.


‘My side’ includes independents like myself who only care about what’s factually correct. There is zero logical following: county officials in Honolulu verified Obama was born there, which is why many said he didn’t need to release them. He only released them later because the idiot fervor continued unabated.

That is NOT the same as Trump’s neverending claim that he cannot release while under audit - the IRS commissioner says that’s untrue.

https://www.axios.com/trump-tax-returns ... fb734.html



I wonder who is lying? The IRS Commissioner surely. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
tommy1808
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:35 am

ItnStln wrote:
. The analogy is valid and therefore stands. Just like I said you don't like it and that's your problem with it.


Trump has a verbal contract with the American people to release his Tax returns. The US is a country where saying "I am sorry" can be an admission of guilt in court. He gave implicit permission.

But the most fun is how you keep droning on about releasing his tax returns to the public, which is one felony, but steadily ignore the likely multiple felonies hidden in those tax returns.

The procecution of the person releasing the tax returns, that will probably never be found out, can wait until Trump is indicted for the felonies contained in them, and the dozen+ felonies we already know he'd likely committed.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15612
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:02 am

The tax story seems to only lasted a few days as the SCOTUS pick and then Trump's infection with Covid-19 with its ramifications have taken over the news media.

I hope the NYT continues with its research and stories as to the taxes, financial records and amount of debts of Trump, his family and businesses. This must continue so to expose and make massive reforms of our perverse tax laws, the need for huge funding and staffing increases at the IRS, that all high public officials must be required by law to present in significant detail their tax and financial records to know of possible conflicts of interest.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:56 pm

ItnStln wrote:
How they were obtained is illegal. In fact it's a felony.
What about someone illegally releasing obama's birth certificate? Are you okay with that?

Aaron747 wrote:
Birth certificate release is a non sequitur.

Pretty odd how you’re laser-focused on felonious release of documents whilst seemingly unconcerned about felonious charity fraud and possible money laundering.

ItnStln wrote:
It's not a non sequitur. People wanted obama's birth certificate released but he wouldn't. It's a valid analogy, you just don't like it.

No; the valid analogy would be demanding the release of irrelevant information in Trump's possession AFTER official confirmation from the IRS of his tax position.
But that isn't even close, so there is good reason not to accept your analogy.

The demands for President Obama's birth certificate came after the Hawaii Department of Health confirmed the core facts that were used to generate the birth certificate in the first place. You cannot get more definitive than that.
You claim to be an educated man, so you must be familiar with the term "prima facie"?
That's latin for you are full of baloney
Image
thx wikipedia

Indeed, if you mislay your birth certificate, the official register of births is the source for any replacement. Been there, done that!


Now let's talk about timing. (and maybe selective memory loss too...)

Obama released his birth certificate (the one that answered all legitimate enquiries about his status) in June 2008.
Remind me; didn't Obama take office in January 2009? Six months later. :o
So, please explain "People wanted obama's birth certificate released but he wouldn't"
"He wouldn't", and yet somehow he did, and in a timely fashion.
Somebody here has a real problem with the truth. :scratchchin:

So unless you are equating the responsibilities of the President with the rights of a private individual, there is NO COMPARISON.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
ItnStln
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:47 pm

Re: NY Times obtains Trump's Taxes

Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:19 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

And then he eventually did, unlike Trump, who still claims audit this, audit that...for over four years. There is no logical following between the birth certificate issue and release of taxes. Next fallacy?

And that was a half response. What say ye on financial crimes?


I've been audited a few times and the first thing my attorney told me was not to discuss my taxes with anyone but him. So I'm not surprised there. My first audit took over 2 years. There is a logical following because your side kept saying obama didn't have to release his birth certificate. The analogy is valid and therefore stands. Just like I said you don't like it and that's your problem with it.


‘My side’ includes independents like myself who only care about what’s factually correct. There is zero logical following: county officials in Honolulu verified Obama was born there, which is why many said he didn’t need to release them. He only released them later because the idiot fervor continued unabated.

That is NOT the same as Trump’s neverending claim that he cannot release while under audit - the IRS commissioner says that’s untrue.

https://www.axios.com/trump-tax-returns ... fb734.html

If President Trump's attorneys told him not to release them during the audit he shouldn't. Apparently I need to remind you there is no requirement for POTUS to release their taxes.

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