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ArchGuy1
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The Reunification of Germany

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:52 am

Today marks the 30 year anniversary of the reunification of Germany, which was an important moment in history and a huge step toward the fall of communism in Europe.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1129845&p=15514933&hilit=German+reunification#p15514933
 
ltbewr
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:48 am

The 'wall' went down on the 9th, but due to it also being the same day date of the 'Krystalnight'' the big beginning of the destruction of Jews in Germany, the anniversary was shifted to October 3rd to not tn conflict with that important historical date.
I recall traveling in Germany and to both East & West Berlin in 1987 and in June 1990 the wall become souvenirs and in transition to unification, also in 2000 when it was complete and few signs of difference.. Along with other 'divorces' from Communism including in Poland and Czechoslovakia it was the beginning of the end of the USSR.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:45 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Today marks the 30 year anniversary of the reunification of Germany, which was an important moment in history and a huge step toward the fall of communism in Europe.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1129845&p=15514933&hilit=German+reunification#p15514933


Sequentially: communism fell before the unification of Germany. Still an important moment in history, in many ways the true end of WWII.
 
94717
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:05 am

Dutchy wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Today marks the 30 year anniversary of the reunification of Germany, which was an important moment in history and a huge step toward the fall of communism in Europe.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1129845&p=15514933&hilit=German+reunification#p15514933


Sequentially: communism fell before the unification of Germany. Still an important moment in history, in many ways the true end of WWII.


Very true in combination with yhe liberation of baltic states and eastern Europe.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:51 am

Dutchy wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Today marks the 30 year anniversary of the reunification of Germany, which was an important moment in history and a huge step toward the fall of communism in Europe.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1129845&p=15514933&hilit=German+reunification#p15514933


Sequentially: communism fell before the unification of Germany. Still an important moment in history, in many ways the true end of WWII.


I have just a few memories of WWII, but I do remember high emotions the night the wall came down, I watched television late into the night, and thinking 'the war is really over'.
 
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c933103
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:40 am

Dutchy wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Today marks the 30 year anniversary of the reunification of Germany, which was an important moment in history and a huge step toward the fall of communism in Europe.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1129845&p=15514933&hilit=German+reunification#p15514933


Sequentially: communism fell before the unification of Germany. Still an important moment in history, in many ways the true end of WWII.

The true end of WWII in Europe. Korea still remain divided nowadays, which shouldn't be related to WWII but ut was under the agreement after the end of WWII that Allies decided to split apart Korea.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:53 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Today marks the 30 year anniversary of the reunification of Germany, which was an important moment in history and a huge step toward the fall of communism in Europe.


Who would have imagined during those incredible days, that one day statues of Marx and Lenin will be erected again in Germany?
 
Sokes
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:04 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
Who would have imagined during those incredible days, that one day statues of Marx and Lenin will be erected again in Germany?

Do you judge them from the perspective of their time or of your time?
 
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fallap
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:14 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Today marks the 30 year anniversary of the reunification of Germany, which was an important moment in history and a huge step toward the fall of communism in Europe.


Who would have imagined during those incredible days, that one day statues of Marx and Lenin will be erected again in Germany?


I don't see any problem with erecting statues of Karl Marx. He made some important contributions by highlighting the plight and the exploitation of workers that followed in the take of the industrial revolution in the 19th. century. Lenin on the other hand...
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:20 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
Who would have imagined during those incredible days, that one day statues of Marx and Lenin will be erected again in Germany?

Kinda like looking back at the South and wondering how it was possible that the party that fought against the Confederation now openly encourages its members to fly her banner as well...something about heritage or history or something...
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:44 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
Who would have imagined during those incredible days, that one day statues of Marx and Lenin will be erected again in Germany?

Kinda like looking back at the South and wondering how it was possible that the party that fought against the Confederation now openly encourages its members to fly her banner as well...something about heritage or history or something...


well, the Lenin Statute ist privately funded by these fine folks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist ... of_Germany and they where taken to court over it (and won).

best regards
Thomas
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:11 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
Who would have imagined during those incredible days, that one day statues of Marx and Lenin will be erected again in Germany?

Kinda like looking back at the South and wondering how it was possible that the party that fought against the Confederation now openly encourages its members to fly her banner as well...something about heritage or history or something...


As if the “South” murdered millions of its own citizens as the followers of Marxist Leninist did in Russia and China. Nobody is talking about a return to slavery, but talk about totalitarian socialism and it’s a goal for many.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:20 pm

It's an amazing transition and Germany has become the economic powerhouse in Europe.
 
94717
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:32 pm

Mortyman wrote:
It's an amazing transition and Germany has become the economic powerhouse in Europe.



Early 1900 the best university education for engineers was in Dresden Germany.

German engineering has always been cutting edge. This in combination in moving away from quarter based economy has changed Germany and special UK does not seems to understand why it did not succeed to stay competitive vs Germany after 1960s.

Even USA has German engineering as one of its biggest export industry in form of BMWs and MBs.
 
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SQ22
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:36 pm

May I remind you to provide a link to a source when stating facts? Thanks.
 
bhill
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:00 pm

I remember having to wear my Class B uniform when on a visit to East Berlin when in the 1st AD and stationed in Furth..real eye opener! Just like these troopers:

https://www.stripes.com/blogs-archive/a ... 9-1.265639

Congrats Germany!!!
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:45 am

I remember visiting an East German friend living in West Berlin towards the end of October 1989 and we were glued to TV reports showing lines of Trabis travelling to West Germany via Czechoslovakia after Gorbachev turned a blind eye to defectors from the East. I asked my friend if he ever thought the Wall would come down. He thought that maybe in ten years something would happen. Ten days later it was breached.
 
94717
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:59 am

I went to Straalsund in 1989 mid october with german studying students. We went to east berlin and passed thru checkpoint charlie into east Berlin.

Then in April friends from the school in Straalsund went and visit us in Sweden... What a change...
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:24 pm

fallap wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Today marks the 30 year anniversary of the reunification of Germany, which was an important moment in history and a huge step toward the fall of communism in Europe.


Who would have imagined during those incredible days, that one day statues of Marx and Lenin will be erected again in Germany?


I don't see any problem with erecting statues of Karl Marx. He made some important contributions by highlighting the plight and the exploitation of workers that followed in the take of the industrial revolution in the 19th. century. Lenin on the other hand...


Lenin merely transformed Marx's words into action.
 
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fallap
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:26 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
fallap wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:

Who would have imagined during those incredible days, that one day statues of Marx and Lenin will be erected again in Germany?


I don't see any problem with erecting statues of Karl Marx. He made some important contributions by highlighting the plight and the exploitation of workers that followed in the take of the industrial revolution in the 19th. century. Lenin on the other hand...


Lenin merely transformed Marx's words into action.


It's been a few years since I studied Marx, so maybe I have forgotten a thing or two. But I don't remember Karl Marx writing about subjugating and exterminating people for the sake of achieving full Communism.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:01 am

fallap wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
fallap wrote:

I don't see any problem with erecting statues of Karl Marx. He made some important contributions by highlighting the plight and the exploitation of workers that followed in the take of the industrial revolution in the 19th. century. Lenin on the other hand...


Lenin merely transformed Marx's words into action.


It's been a few years since I studied Marx, so maybe I have forgotten a thing or two. But I don't remember Karl Marx writing about subjugating and exterminating people for the sake of achieving full Communism.


:checkmark:
plus Leninism is more a combination of Narodism and populist dialectical materialism, which is essentially Plekhanov dialectical materialism, which is based on Feuerbach´s work. And something both Marx and Engels critiqued in their works .....

best regards
Thomas
 
prebennorholm
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:05 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
Who would have imagined during those incredible days, that one day statues of Marx and Lenin will be erected again in Germany?

This is the way to treat those statues... https://www.visitherning.dk/herning/se- ... gdk1093851

This statue of Lenin was bought 20 years ago in Latvia by a fellow Danish citizen, who put it up (or rather, put it down) on his front lawn in front of his house.

If memory serves me well he paid roughly $15,000 for it, but transport from Latvia and construction of the "bed" was considerably more expensive. It was bought on the condition that should the Latvians for historic reasons change their mind within ten years, then it should be returned.
 
Sokes
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Re: The Reunification of Germany

Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:16 am

The French revolution also had killings. Was the French revolution also bad?

Capitalism in its early stages is terrible exploitative. I believe that's because of a legal system that doesn't function properly yet plus the "reserve army of labour".
In India in most places business can't prosper. Highly productive jobs are few, accordingly capitalists can pay very low wages.
Add restrictions in housing, again a legal problem.
Another problem of the time were the multitude of children people got.

Workers must have been wondering: "Though operating machines leads to huge output, we can afford very little of it."

When Lenin saw that socialism doesn't work, he adapted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Econo ... 0expedient.

Russia was a poor country. The socialists did employ crude methods, but they did manage to industrialize the country in surprisingly short time and prioritized education when education was on a very low level. Indeed they were so successful that many former colonies thought it's the right model to copy.
Unfortunately Lenin died early and Stalin suffered from paranoia.

As long as there were gulags, people employed in socialist enterprises were motivated enough to go the extra mile. I don't support an economic system that requires gulags for motivation. But industrialization in the West wasn't perfect either.

If one tries something for the first time, there are always mistakes. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried.
Was killing rich people o.k.? To say no without reflection means that poor people should never be allowed to defend themselves, however much they may be ill treated. Again we are back at the French revolution.

From the movie "Fury":
"Ideals are peaceful, history is violent."

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