Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
bomber996 wrote:All this does is make life more difficult for airlines when dealing with the, "iT's AgAiNsT mY cOnStItUtIoNaL rIgHtS" crowd. Airlines are still able to make their own rules and passengers legally have to abide. This changes nothing.
bomber996 wrote:(...) "iT's AgAiNsT mY cOnStItUtIoNaL rIgHtS" (...)
MartijnNL wrote:bomber996 wrote:(...) "iT's AgAiNsT mY cOnStItUtIoNaL rIgHtS" (...)
Why the mix between lowercase and capitals?
bomber996 wrote:All this does is make life more difficult for airlines when dealing with the, "iT's AgAiNsT mY cOnStItUtIoNaL rIgHtS" crowd. Airlines are still able to make their own rules and passengers legally have to abide. This changes nothing.
Peace
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:With regards to the actual ruling, airlines can tell this person and his utterly insane ruling where to go, and what to do when he gets there, because as private businesses, they can make rules for themselves, and if they want to require masks, that's their business.
FriscoHeavy wrote:Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
MIflyer12 wrote:PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:With regards to the actual ruling, airlines can tell this person and his utterly insane ruling where to go, and what to do when he gets there, because as private businesses, they can make rules for themselves, and if they want to require masks, that's their business.
That idea may have an interesting run through the courts. Businesses can't make ANY rule they want: discrimination based on gender, race, and religion is outlawed in the U.S., for example. Somebody (funded by, oh, The Heritage Foundation, or some analogue) could make the case that a mask rule is arbitrary. The DOT declined to promulgate a mask rule, many states declined mask rules, there was no Federal mask rule...
FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
MIflyer12 wrote:PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:With regards to the actual ruling, airlines can tell this person and his utterly insane ruling where to go, and what to do when he gets there, because as private businesses, they can make rules for themselves, and if they want to require masks, that's their business.
That idea may have an interesting run through the courts. Businesses can't make ANY rule they want: discrimination based on gender, race, and religion is outlawed in the U.S., for example. Somebody (funded by, oh, The Heritage Foundation, or some analogue) could make the case that a mask rule is arbitrary. The DOT declined to promulgate a mask rule, many states declined mask rules, there was no Federal mask rule...
From the other side, if the petitioner doesn't like the DOT's refusal he could sue the DOT to compel it to formulate a mask rule and have the carriers enforce it.
FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
jetmatt777 wrote:FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
Haven't you heard a single word from health experts around the world over the past 7 months? Masks are not about you getting other people's germs, they are about keeping your germs from getting to others. You are completely irresponsible, your "personal freedoms" are directly putting people at risk. The people around you wearing masks are doing their part to keep you from getting sick, yet you don't have the courtesy to return the favor.
CALMSP wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
Haven't you heard a single word from health experts around the world over the past 7 months? Masks are not about you getting other people's germs, they are about keeping your germs from getting to others. You are completely irresponsible, your "personal freedoms" are directly putting people at risk. The people around you wearing masks are doing their part to keep you from getting sick, yet you don't have the courtesy to return the favor.
I think what people get upset about is why is it then someones responsibility towards the health of another if its not something done on purpose? A lot of sayings going the way of "its protecting others, not about you", so someone as an individual doesn't matter? not allowed to think about yourself only others?
FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
Aliqiout wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:With regards to the actual ruling, airlines can tell this person and his utterly insane ruling where to go, and what to do when he gets there, because as private businesses, they can make rules for themselves, and if they want to require masks, that's their business.
That idea may have an interesting run through the courts. Businesses can't make ANY rule they want: discrimination based on gender, race, and religion is outlawed in the U.S., for example. Somebody (funded by, oh, The Heritage Foundation, or some analogue) could make the case that a mask rule is arbitrary. The DOT declined to promulgate a mask rule, many states declined mask rules, there was no Federal mask rule...
From the other side, if the petitioner doesn't like the DOT's refusal he could sue the DOT to compel it to formulate a mask rule and have the carriers enforce it.
Huh? What would the basis for a lawsuit be? Even if there was a real argument that mask rules are arbitrary, there is no law against business creating arbitrary rules.
jetmatt777 wrote:Because personal freedom comes with the responsibility to not put others at risk to exercise your freedom. Your freedom stops at the point where it begins to negatively affect others.
lightsaber wrote:OMG. I am a huge constitutionalist, but I support masks. They have been shown, if worn properly (not a chin diaper) to reduce the chance of infection by 77% and more importantly, reduce the viral loading upon infection to such a low level that it is a mild to asymptomatic case.
I'm flying for Thanksgiving and I will wear a mask and a face shield per advice from my sister, a doctor in a Covid19 ward.
My opinion is bad advice for the start of flu season as flu+Covid19 is really bad. Got flu vaccine?
Lightsaber
CALMSP wrote:I think what people get upset about is why is it then someones responsibility towards the health of another if its not something done on purpose? A lot of sayings going the way of "its protecting others, not about you", so someone as an individual doesn't matter? not allowed to think about yourself only others?
Antarius wrote:CALMSP wrote:I think what people get upset about is why is it then someones responsibility towards the health of another if its not something done on purpose? A lot of sayings going the way of "its protecting others, not about you", so someone as an individual doesn't matter? not allowed to think about yourself only others?
When the only thing the individual is giving up is having to wearing a mask, its hard to justify saying that "you don't matter" when the downside is someone else getting severely ill and potentially dying.
It's not like the individual is being asked to starve and give up their house for others. It's just wearing a mask. No different than asking someone to wear deodorant in public.
jcwr56 wrote:lightsaber wrote:OMG. I am a huge constitutionalist, but I support masks. They have been shown, if worn properly (not a chin diaper) to reduce the chance of infection by 77% and more importantly, reduce the viral loading upon infection to such a low level that it is a mild to asymptomatic case.
I'm flying for Thanksgiving and I will wear a mask and a face shield per advice from my sister, a doctor in a Covid19 ward.
My opinion is bad advice for the start of flu season as flu+Covid19 is really bad. Got flu vaccine?
Lightsaber
The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons say otherwise. https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/
Now, how will the DOT react to this when complaints starting rolling in. Just like the animal support debacle, this is the next one up. From a legality stand point, the DOT didn't help the airlines here one bit.
FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
TMccrury wrote:FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
I'm with you on this one. It is my opinion if we are going to do mandate mask for Covid-19 we should mandate them for the Flu. The same rationale applies. Both are transmitted pretty much the same way. Sadly, Covid-19 has become a politicized and folks are spreading a lot of fear about it. Here is another thought, the Constitution does not cease to exist just because of a Pandemic. It is still enforce regardless. As someone else said, If you if you give the Government an inch, they take a mile and there is no end to it.
CALMSP wrote:Antarius wrote:CALMSP wrote:I think what people get upset about is why is it then someones responsibility towards the health of another if its not something done on purpose? A lot of sayings going the way of "its protecting others, not about you", so someone as an individual doesn't matter? not allowed to think about yourself only others?
When the only thing the individual is giving up is having to wearing a mask, its hard to justify saying that "you don't matter" when the downside is someone else getting severely ill and potentially dying.
It's not like the individual is being asked to starve and give up their house for others. It's just wearing a mask. No different than asking someone to wear deodorant in public.
well, people simply do not like others telling them what to do. Its such a strange thing that the left is hung up on these masks about the health of others and the government telling people to wear them..............but yet do not want the government to limit abortion saying its the mothers right. Such hypocrites.
Glad the DOT is not getting involved in this matter, it really is nothing to do with their day to day functions.
Newark727 wrote:It is absolutely bizarre to consider masks as some kind of authoritarian power play. You can find much more egregious violations of peoples' rights, and much more consequential rearrangements in political power, in minutes, or seconds, if you care to look.
Antarius wrote:Newark727 wrote:It is absolutely bizarre to consider masks as some kind of authoritarian power play. You can find much more egregious violations of peoples' rights, and much more consequential rearrangements in political power, in minutes, or seconds, if you care to look.
And far more important things that have impact. But yes, its so clear .. first masks then dictatorship
I'm fine with the DOT not mandating masks. This is not a DOT issue. It is a public health issue and should be handled by the appropriate departments. And finally, the US airlines are private companies and it is fascinating that those yelling for freedom somehow have an issue with the company being free to set their own rules.
dennypayne wrote:FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
Sigh...it's not about the risk to *you* - it's about the risk of you having it, not knowing (asymptomatic), and passing it along to someone else who will be severely affected by it. Masks are absolutely proven to reduce this risk, so anyone that doesnt wear one is just being selfish.
Antarius wrote:CALMSP wrote:Antarius wrote:
When the only thing the individual is giving up is having to wearing a mask, its hard to justify saying that "you don't matter" when the downside is someone else getting severely ill and potentially dying.
It's not like the individual is being asked to starve and give up their house for others. It's just wearing a mask. No different than asking someone to wear deodorant in public.
well, people simply do not like others telling them what to do. Its such a strange thing that the left is hung up on these masks about the health of others and the government telling people to wear them..............but yet do not want the government to limit abortion saying its the mothers right. Such hypocrites.
Glad the DOT is not getting involved in this matter, it really is nothing to do with their day to day functions.
This is not a left vs right thing. It's common courtesy and science.
You have absolutely no idea whether I'm a liberal, conservative, libertarian or green party member; all I've said is I follow advice from people smarter than me in this field (i'm not a epidemiologist or virologist or infectious disease specialist) and that this is a stupid hill to die on.
LOT767301ER wrote:dennypayne wrote:FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
Sigh...it's not about the risk to *you* - it's about the risk of you having it, not knowing (asymptomatic), and passing it along to someone else who will be severely affected by it. Masks are absolutely proven to reduce this risk, so anyone that doesnt wear one is just being selfish.
Not really, weak must die for the strong to live. This is called nature. In this case the weak are old and have many co-morbidities.
CALMSP wrote:Antarius wrote:CALMSP wrote:
well, people simply do not like others telling them what to do. Its such a strange thing that the left is hung up on these masks about the health of others and the government telling people to wear them..............but yet do not want the government to limit abortion saying its the mothers right. Such hypocrites.
Glad the DOT is not getting involved in this matter, it really is nothing to do with their day to day functions.
This is not a left vs right thing. It's common courtesy and science.
You have absolutely no idea whether I'm a liberal, conservative, libertarian or green party member; all I've said is I follow advice from people smarter than me in this field (i'm not a epidemiologist or virologist or infectious disease specialist) and that this is a stupid hill to die on.
of course I don't, but its also a common courtesy not to kill a baby, no?
All these airlines knew it was going to be controversial mandating this, and thats why no one was willing to do so, then, all of a sudden, they cared about the health of pax and employees, no, they did it b/c someone else did it, not based on "science". Its always a follow the leader mentality, b/c Coronavirus has turned out to be all about money. Which is why we see hospitals reporting false deaths so they can get additional funds.
FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
FriscoHeavy wrote:Antarius wrote:Newark727 wrote:It is absolutely bizarre to consider masks as some kind of authoritarian power play. You can find much more egregious violations of peoples' rights, and much more consequential rearrangements in political power, in minutes, or seconds, if you care to look.
And far more important things that have impact. But yes, its so clear .. first masks then dictatorship
I'm fine with the DOT not mandating masks. This is not a DOT issue. It is a public health issue and should be handled by the appropriate departments. And finally, the US airlines are private companies and it is fascinating that those yelling for freedom somehow have an issue with the company being free to set their own rules.
I never said I had an issue with a private company setting their rules. I believe private enterprises can do as such. I haven't seen such shouting on anywhere near a regular basis.
lightsaber wrote:OMG. I am a huge constitutionalist, but I support masks. They have been shown, if worn properly (not a chin diaper) to reduce the chance of infection by 77% and more importantly, reduce the viral loading upon infection to such a low level that it is a mild to asymptomatic case.
I'm flying for Thanksgiving and I will wear a mask and a face shield per advice from my sister, a doctor in a Covid19 ward.
My opinion is bad advice for the start of flu season as flu+Covid19 is really bad. Got flu vaccine?
Lightsaber
Antarius wrote:CALMSP wrote:Antarius wrote:
This is not a left vs right thing. It's common courtesy and science.
You have absolutely no idea whether I'm a liberal, conservative, libertarian or green party member; all I've said is I follow advice from people smarter than me in this field (i'm not a epidemiologist or virologist or infectious disease specialist) and that this is a stupid hill to die on.
of course I don't, but its also a common courtesy not to kill a baby, no?
All these airlines knew it was going to be controversial mandating this, and thats why no one was willing to do so, then, all of a sudden, they cared about the health of pax and employees, no, they did it b/c someone else did it, not based on "science". Its always a follow the leader mentality, b/c Coronavirus has turned out to be all about money. Which is why we see hospitals reporting false deaths so they can get additional funds.
The whole world has shut down, resulting in huge amounts of bailouts and stimulus and monetary injection... all of this was because of money? Is this the new strategy where you spend a lot, get nothing back and somehow become rich?
Come on. If you're going to tin foil, at least make a coherent argument.
LOT767301ER wrote:dennypayne wrote:FriscoHeavy wrote:I'm 'Anti-Mask' (meaning I don't wear one). I have no issue if you choose to wear one. Individual freedom and liberty are real things. You give the government or anyone in power an inch and they will take a mile (there is no end to this mask crap and that's part of the problem). If I knew it was for 2-3 weeks and that's that, then I'd do it, but I'm going going to wear it up for an indefinite and unending period of time.
By the same token, I won't be jumping over any counter to attack anyone. When I fly now, I just hold a cup in my hand and problem solved (no mask). No ruckus, no fuss. I just mind my business (like many of you should be doing). Quit being so worried about what everyone else is or is not doing.
While I believe in science, I also do not believe in living in fear given for the foreseeable future. 99.9% of those infected, recover. 40% or so of those who have died in the USA were in nursing homes. The science does not show that the average person, up to about age 70 is at significant risk of death (I'm in insurance and have seen the death claims). Everyone just needs to relax. Contagious? Absolutely. A death sentence? Not for 99.9+ % of people.
We just held a 15-20 person party at our house over the weekend. It was great. No masks, actually shook hands like people should do when the arrive and leave, etc. We choose to live a normal life, not be freaked out because the media or others convince you that you are about to die for Coronavirus, when it simply isn't true.
Again, if you want to wear a mask, shield, a full alien suit, go for it. I have no issue with you doing what you feel you need to do, but you do you and I'll do me. I don't make fun of you (pro-maskers) so the personal attacks on those who don't choose to wear one and realize how extremely small the risks are shouldn't be looked down upon or made fun of either.
Sigh...it's not about the risk to *you* - it's about the risk of you having it, not knowing (asymptomatic), and passing it along to someone else who will be severely affected by it. Masks are absolutely proven to reduce this risk, so anyone that doesnt wear one is just being selfish.
Not really, weak must die for the strong to live. This is called nature. In this case the weak are old and have many co-morbidities.
n92r03 wrote:I'm not getting into the mask debate I'm about common sense and whatever works for you and personally I like the social distancing thing for about 99% of the people in public (always have had my own version of this), I like my personal space. That being said, I flew last weekend on WN. Aircraft were clean and arrived safely on-time, great. The issue I have is the inconsistencies with the FA's. Outbound legs were pretty normal, FA's politely asked people to wear their masks, etc. No issues. Inbound legs were a bit different. FA's going nuts over a lady trying to drink her coffee, literally wearing her mask properly and only moving it to take a sip. Then second leg had another FA throwing a hissy fit as a lady had purchased a can of apparently wine at the concession in the airport and she brought it on the aircraft...oh the horror! The FA was berating the lady about it being a federal offense, etc. I'm not questioning his knowledge of said federal rules, but the grandstanding power trip was unnecessary. It was a bit entertaining as the air marshall that was seated across the aisle rolled his eyes when the "federal offense" bulljive started. Upon arrival the FA's were screaming at everyone to sit in our seats until the aisle was clear to keep "social distancing". Loads of fun flying these days I tell you.
CALMSP wrote:Antarius wrote:CALMSP wrote:
of course I don't, but its also a common courtesy not to kill a baby, no?
All these airlines knew it was going to be controversial mandating this, and thats why no one was willing to do so, then, all of a sudden, they cared about the health of pax and employees, no, they did it b/c someone else did it, not based on "science". Its always a follow the leader mentality, b/c Coronavirus has turned out to be all about money. Which is why we see hospitals reporting false deaths so they can get additional funds.
The whole world has shut down, resulting in huge amounts of bailouts and stimulus and monetary injection... all of this was because of money? Is this the new strategy where you spend a lot, get nothing back and somehow become rich?
Come on. If you're going to tin foil, at least make a coherent argument.
in the US it is about money. Why do we keep seeing reports come out from all over the US of people who did not die of coronavirus but their death certificates are listed as COVID-19? Because the hospital receives money. There is no shortage of details available on the internet for anyone to find, this is not new.