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LH658
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PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:16 pm

https://epaper.brecorder.com/2020/08/12 ... -news.html

The Hotel located in Midtown NYC, will be shutting its door on October 31st. Property is own by PIA, and PIA owns another property in Paris called the Scribe Hotel. Hotel was facing cash flow issues since March 2020, due to Covid.
 
bhxdtw
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:54 pm

Why did PIA own those hotels?? Seems a bit random. ?
 
behramjee
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:13 am

PIA took over the Roosevelt property in 1979. I stayed there for a week in July 1994 and it was well run and managed at that time. Its location was excellent right near Grand Central Station.

The real value for PK lies in the property value rather than operating the hotel itself going forward.
 
ILUV767
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:24 am

That hotel was an absolute dump to stay in. The rooms haven't been updated in what seems to be decades. Its only redeeming quality is its location.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:49 am

You have to wonder if anyone would buy the hotel. Seems like it could be a steal in this environment, though I see some issues securing financing for a hotel of that size, unless it were backed by the assets of a major developer (chains often don’t own their own properties). As far as PIA is concerned, I really don’t see why the Government of Pakistan should be financing hotels abroad. Horizontal integration has rarely worked out well for airlines. When they go low, they all go low.
 
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kane8907
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:26 am

Wow, that hotel worth a lot of money
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:17 am

usdcaguy wrote:
You have to wonder if anyone would buy the hotel. Seems like it could be a steal in this environment, though


The problem is that it is a very old building and the rooms really aren't adequate for the demands of contemporary guests. You would probably have to gut the entire thing to bring the accommodation up to the 21st century standards. If you are going to those lengths anyway then an investor would probably make more money converting it into apartments.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
rg787
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:32 am

This one says belmond all over it. Hope they find it interesting.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:42 am

rg787 wrote:
This one says belmond all over it. Hope they find it interesting.


That would require significant refurbishment of the property, the Roosevelt was known as the economical hotel in the area
Last edited by BA744PHX on Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
timpdx
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:48 am

This should fall within the Midtown East zoning plan. Huge increase in allowable build, its a tear down and worth a damn fortune.
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LH658
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:58 am

PIA use to own a Holiday Inn in Jeddah.
 
avek00
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:45 am

bhxdtw wrote:
Why did PIA own those hotels?? Seems a bit random. ?


I dunno how exactly PIA came to own the hotel, but airlines based in developing economies often benefit from having real property and cash flows (read: collateral for lenders) based in the US and other Western countries.
Live life to the fullest.
 
smartcrictime
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:50 am

kane8907 wrote:
Wow, that hotel worth a lot of money

yeah actually bro, this one says belmond all over it. Hope they find it interesting.
 
LH658
Topic Author
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:29 am

avek00 wrote:
bhxdtw wrote:
Why did PIA own those hotels?? Seems a bit random. ?


I dunno how exactly PIA came to own the hotel, but airlines based in developing economies often benefit from having real property and cash flows (read: collateral for lenders) based in the US and other Western countries.


PIA leased the hotel with partnership with Saudi Prince Faisal Bin Khalid Bin Abdulaziz Al Saud, for 20 years starting in 1979, after 20 years PIA had the option to purchase the hotel which they did so. PIA also bought out the Saudi Prince share. PIA has a investment division called PIA Investments Limited. The Roosevelt Hotel is a quite old hotel, and has a bit of a prestige status.
 
LH658
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:32 am

https://www.piac.com.pk/corporate/partner-hotels

PIA website indicates the 3 hotels they own.

3rd one is a bit surprising, they own a hotel near the Karachi Airport, It was built by BOAC back in the 50's, and was called the Speed Bird House.
 
Ken777
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:40 am

This hotel, IIFC, was going strong in the Glen Miller days and they came out with a song (Pennsylvania 6 - 5000). We stayed there in the 70's and it still kept that basic number.

BTW, the Glen Miller movie s actually a decent watch. Good actors, decent story and great music of that era. Should be a cheap rental during lock in.
 
klwright69
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:54 am

You know things must be bad. That's an iconic landmark hotel.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:10 am

Ken777 wrote:
This hotel, IIFC, was going strong in the Glen Miller days and they came out with a song (Pennsylvania 6 - 5000). We stayed there in the 70's and it still kept that basic number.

BTW, the Glen Miller movie s actually a decent watch. Good actors, decent story and great music of that era. Should be a cheap rental during lock in.
No, that telephone number is actually the Hotel Pennsylvania on Seventh Avenue, which is where Glenn Miller (and many others) played at The Cafe Rouge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafe_Roug ... nnsylvania)

I agree the film is a good watch, with of course several interesting aviation scenes.

Fun fact; I'm currently sitting about 300 yds from the site of one of Miller's final performances before his disappearance in a UC-64A Norseman (1944).

Here is a Noorduyn in similar colors, although Miller's probably sported "invasion stripes"
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:45 am

Ken777 wrote:
BTW, the Glen Miller movie s actually a decent watch.
And heading even further off-topic, Jimmy Stewart (who played Miller in the film) was stationed just down the road a few clicks.
I haven't seen it written anywhere, but Stewart must have met Miller when the latter played RAF Tibenham in 1944. :scratchchin:

It is an often overlooked fact that Stewart, already a Hollywood star by 1942, not only signed up for a wartime commission, but actively campaigned to get himself assigned to combat missions.
The top brass wanted him wrapped up in cotton wool, safe in the US, not wanting the bad press if he got himself killed, but he ended up as a full Colonel, and deputy commander of the 2nd Bombardment Wing. From his position of authority, Stewart (an accomplished pilot in his own right) made sure he was included on an unspecified number of B-24 sorties. Luckily for all of us, he didn't get wiped out on any the really bad missions (Schweinfurt, Gotha, and the attack on Kassel)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassel_Mission

He retained an interest via the Army Air Force Reserve, and during the Vietnam War (Feb 1966), he flew as a non-duty observer in a B-52 on an Arc Light bombing mission.

They don't make 'em like that anymore....

Receiving the Croix de Guerre in 1944
Image

thx wikipedia

(Yeah, it's off-topic and I've already had one post pulled; can't you give a guy a break? :white: )
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
rg787
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:00 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
rg787 wrote:
This one says belmond all over it. Hope they find it interesting.


That would require significant refurbishment of the property, the Roosevelt was known as the economical hotel in the area


Probably, but Belmond has had some of those adventures in the past. Copacabana Palace was just like that.

I got to admit that I don't really know Roosevelt Hotel, but it is a historic building in a premium area on a city with tons of tourists. There is no way someone couldn't make that work.
 
SFOThinker
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Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:13 pm

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:32 pm

The Roosevelt probably is best known for the clock hanging from the ceiling in its lobby. “Meet my under the clock” was a very popular phrase for people seeking a meeting place in Midtown. But this dates from half a century or more ago. I agree with others that the hotel is in need of renovations to its rooms. I stayed there only once and avoided it ever after.
 
TUSAirliner
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 2:38 pm

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:31 pm

SFOThinker wrote:
The Roosevelt probably is best known for the clock hanging from the ceiling in its lobby. “Meet my under the clock” was a very popular phrase for people seeking a meeting place in Midtown. But this dates from half a century or more ago. I agree with others that the hotel is in need of renovations to its rooms. I stayed there only once and avoided it ever after.


The clock is in Grand Central Station. Perhaps the hotel had one too, but the reference is to GCS
 
VSMUT
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:03 pm

bhxdtw wrote:
Why did PIA own those hotels?? Seems a bit random. ?


Airlines historically had hotels, which actually makes a bit sense, since their customers and staff almost always needed hotel accomodation:

Pan Am established InterContinental.
Air France established Le Meridien.
SAS had a hotel chain of its own (later spun off into Radisson under the Radisson SAS brand), and at one point had a 40% share in InterContinental.
Swissair had Swissotel.
Lufthansa was involved in Kempinski.
Sabena had Sabena Hotels, including the famous one in Rwanda during the genocide.
United owned Westin.
KLM was in the partnership that established Golden Tulip.
 
SFOThinker
Posts: 162
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:38 pm

TUSAirliner wrote:
SFOThinker wrote:
The Roosevelt probably is best known for the clock hanging from the ceiling in its lobby. “Meet my under the clock” was a very popular phrase for people seeking a meeting place in Midtown. But this dates from half a century or more ago. I agree with others that the hotel is in need of renovations to its rooms. I stayed there only once and avoided it ever after.


The clock is in Grand Central Station. Perhaps the hotel had one too, but the reference is to GCS


The Roosevelt used “Meet me under the clock” in its promotional materials.

The Roosevelt in New Orleans also uses the slogan.
https://twitter.com/TheRoosevelt_NO/sta ... 6424340482
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:22 pm

VSMUT wrote:
bhxdtw wrote:
Why did PIA own those hotels?? Seems a bit random. ?


Airlines historically had hotels, which actually makes a bit sense, since their customers and staff almost always needed hotel accomodation:

Pan Am established InterContinental.
Air France established Le Meridien.
SAS had a hotel chain of its own (later spun off into Radisson under the Radisson SAS brand), and at one point had a 40% share in InterContinental.
Swissair had Swissotel.
Lufthansa was involved in Kempinski.
Sabena had Sabena Hotels, including the famous one in Rwanda during the genocide.
United owned Westin.
KLM was in the partnership that established Golden Tulip.


I always find these very interesting. Westin, which you mentioned, I believe was created by United, in Asia. I think it was during a time when business travel from Americans was growing yet many of the hotels were tiny "capsule" style properties. From my memory, United created Western International Hotels, which later became "Westin". Another that I know of is JAL and their Nikko Hotels. There is one here in SF still and some of the older staff remember this connection.

Regards.
 
LH658
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:13 am

SL1200MK2 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
bhxdtw wrote:
Why did PIA own those hotels?? Seems a bit random. ?


Airlines historically had hotels, which actually makes a bit sense, since their customers and staff almost always needed hotel accomodation:

Pan Am established InterContinental.
Air France established Le Meridien.
SAS had a hotel chain of its own (later spun off into Radisson under the Radisson SAS brand), and at one point had a 40% share in InterContinental.
Swissair had Swissotel.
Lufthansa was involved in Kempinski.
Sabena had Sabena Hotels, including the famous one in Rwanda during the genocide.
United owned Westin.
KLM was in the partnership that established Golden Tulip.


I always find these very interesting. Westin, which you mentioned, I believe was created by United, in Asia. I think it was during a time when business travel from Americans was growing yet many of the hotels were tiny "capsule" style properties. From my memory, United created Western International Hotels, which later became "Westin". Another that I know of is JAL and their Nikko Hotels. There is one here in SF still and some of the older staff remember this connection.

Regards.


Wow thanks for sharing the knowledge.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15341
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:52 am

This hotel had a great location as close to Grand Central Station when long distance trains operated much more than today.. As to the PIA ownership, it was only a block or so from PIA's NYC operational and ticketing office and I believe near the Pakistani government's diplomatic consultant offices to the UN.
 
VSMUT
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:46 am

SL1200MK2 wrote:
I always find these very interesting. Westin, which you mentioned, I believe was created by United, in Asia. I think it was during a time when business travel from Americans was growing yet many of the hotels were tiny "capsule" style properties. From my memory, United created Western International Hotels, which later became "Westin".


It wasn't created by United Airlines. Western Hotels was created in 1930 in Seattle as a merger of two rival hotel chains. They renamed into Western International in 1963 when they expanded outside the US. United only acquired it in 1970, but they were behind the rebranding to Westin. It was sold off in 1988, but maintained a partnership with United until 2010. Interestingly, the chain has a partnership with Delta today.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:25 pm

Doesn''t BA own a hotel in Midtown NYC as well? I hooked up with a fight attendant maybe 6 years ago and we went back to the hotel. It's in the 50s I think, on the east side.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:04 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
BTW, the Glen Miller movie s actually a decent watch.
And heading even further off-topic, Jimmy Stewart (who played Miller in the film) was stationed just down the road a few clicks.
I haven't seen it written anywhere, but Stewart must have met Miller when the latter played RAF Tibenham in 1944. :scratchchin:

It is an often overlooked fact that Stewart, already a Hollywood star by 1942, not only signed up for a wartime commission, but actively campaigned to get himself assigned to combat missions.
The top brass wanted him wrapped up in cotton wool, safe in the US, not wanting the bad press if he got himself killed, but he ended up as a full Colonel, and deputy commander of the 2nd Bombardment Wing. From his position of authority, Stewart (an accomplished pilot in his own right) made sure he was included on an unspecified number of B-24 sorties. Luckily for all of us, he didn't get wiped out on any the really bad missions (Schweinfurt, Gotha, and the attack on Kassel)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassel_Mission

He retained an interest via the Army Air Force Reserve, and during the Vietnam War (Feb 1966), he flew as a non-duty observer in a B-52 on an Arc Light bombing mission.

They don't make 'em like that anymore....

Receiving the Croix de Guerre in 1944
Image

thx wikipedia

(Yeah, it's off-topic and I've already had one post pulled; can't you give a guy a break? :white: )


Not just just interested, active membership in the AF Reserve, retiring at flag rank. One of 12 founders of the AFA.
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:36 am

VSMUT wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
I always find these very interesting. Westin, which you mentioned, I believe was created by United, in Asia. I think it was during a time when business travel from Americans was growing yet many of the hotels were tiny "capsule" style properties. From my memory, United created Western International Hotels, which later became "Westin".


It wasn't created by United Airlines. Western Hotels was created in 1930 in Seattle as a merger of two rival hotel chains. They renamed into Western International in 1963 when they expanded outside the US. United only acquired it in 1970, but they were behind the rebranding to Westin. It was sold off in 1988, but maintained a partnership with United until 2010. Interestingly, the chain has a partnership with Delta today.


Oh cool. Thanks for the correction!
 
ME720
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:36 pm

ANA had their own hotels. I think they partnered with inter continental.
 
Alias1024
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:42 pm

ILUV767 wrote:
That hotel was an absolute dump to stay in. The rooms haven't been updated in what seems to be decades. Its only redeeming quality is its location.


You didn't find the charm in waiting 10 minutes for an elevator because the first five that showed up were all full? Or bathrooms with zero counter space for your toiletries? Or electrical outlets that didn't always work?

Agreed that the location was easily the best quality of the hotel. The lobby was maintained nicely, but the rest of the place is in need of serious renovation.

klwright69 wrote:
You know things must be bad. That's an iconic landmark hotel.


I read a few weeks ago that approximately 40% of hotels in Manhattan are in default on bank loans or bonds.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
LH658
Topic Author
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:11 pm

PIA's consolidated financial statements show that the Roosevelt Hotel contributed negligible amount in terms of annual cash flow to the airline.

https://epaper.brecorder.com/2020/10/10 ... -news.html
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:46 am

...they're still taking reservations. I've never known about this hotel. Beautiful building.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
LH658
Topic Author
Posts: 1217
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:11 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
...they're still taking reservations. I've never known about this hotel. Beautiful building.



Yes October 31st the hotel closes.
 
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Pellegrine
Posts: 2484
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: PIA closes Roosevelt Hotel.

Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:09 am

LH658 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
...they're still taking reservations. I've never known about this hotel. Beautiful building.



Yes October 31st the hotel closes.


K. Hope someone buys it and turns it into a 3-3.5 star hotel. Not too expensive, not too shabby.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.

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