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TSS
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:01 am

And now for something relevant but a little less serious-

Epic Rap Battle: Gun Owner vs Liberal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdrvxKxiQrQ


Extra Added Bonus! A genuine firing range ballistic test of several varieties of the "non-lethal" suggestion seen at 1:19 in the above video (WARNING! Not for the humorless, easily offended, faint of heart, or delicate of constitution)-

Would riot control d*ldos work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LXAWqRif-s&t=1s
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Tugger
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:27 pm

TSS wrote:
And now for something relevant but a little less serious-

Epic Rap Battle: Gun Owner vs Liberal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdrvxKxiQrQ


Extra Added Bonus! A genuine firing range ballistic test of several varieties of the "non-lethal" suggestion seen at 1:19 in the above video (WARNING! Not for the humorless, easily offended, faint of heart, or delicate of constitution)-

Would riot control d*ldos work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LXAWqRif-s&t=1s

What I find most interesting is that guns are really just toys to have fun with in these types of vids. Sure we know why guns are useful, primarily for hunting, secondarily for personal defense, but it is playing with them that is the best thing. Shooting and hitting a target is just fun, anything really, from sports like basketball to games like GTA to live firing a weapon at a range or out in the back country, we love shooting and the satisfaction it brings.

The key thing to remember is that playing with guns is fun!

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:17 pm

Well, clay target shooting is plenty fun and very popular world-wide, esp Anglosphere.
 
extender
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:05 pm

Trap and three-gun matches are fun. So is plinking away on shotgun shells in the lake. Dueling trees. Playing music on steel plates. Collecting stamps...
 
TSS
Posts: 3738
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:09 pm

Tugger wrote:
TSS wrote:
And now for something relevant but a little less serious-

Epic Rap Battle: Gun Owner vs Liberal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdrvxKxiQrQ


Extra Added Bonus! A genuine firing range ballistic test of several varieties of the "non-lethal" suggestion seen at 1:19 in the above video (WARNING! Not for the humorless, easily offended, faint of heart, or delicate of constitution)-

Would riot control d*ldos work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LXAWqRif-s&t=1s

What I find most interesting is that guns are really just toys to have fun with in these types of vids. Sure we know why guns are useful, primarily for hunting, secondarily for personal defense, but it is playing with them that is the best thing. Shooting and hitting a target is just fun, anything really, from sports like basketball to games like GTA to live firing a weapon at a range or out in the back country, we love shooting and the satisfaction it brings.

The key thing to remember is that playing with guns is fun!

Tugg


Done safely and responsibly, yes it is! Furthermore, what better way to familiarize one's self with the capabilities, feel, and accuracy of a weapon is there than by practicing with it in controlled and appropriate situations?

I wish I had discovered these before Halloween this year! Oh well, better late than never...

If Veterans Were In Horror Movies:

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXsrH3cuDMA

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiWs1RGrCjo

3 . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjk7QVMMgZs
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B777LRF
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:05 am

Guns in private ownership shall be a well a tightly regulated exception, subject to rigorous controls, steep penalties for abuse and regulated to the highest possible level. In practice that will mean you'll need a license, hold insurance and be prepared to be audited at regular and unannounced intervals if you want to keep the gun at home. Weapons kept at home shall be limited to single- or double barrel hunting rifles, which will not only be expensive to purchase due to taxation of such weapons, but also be very, very hard to get a license to own and keep at home. Moreover, you shall prove to the authorities you are capable of safely storing the weapon and its ammunition at your home, effectively making it impossible to be used for any other than the authorised owner. You may own one, and just one, hunting rifle. Sale of ammunition shall be tightly regulated and subject to annual quotas; you will need to provide proof of identify as well as your hunting license when purchasing ammunition, and you will only be allowed to purchase a very limited number of rounds per month. Outside of hunting season sale of ammunition will be forbidden.

For target shooting, including clay shooting and other such sports, you must be a member of an accredited club and your weapon must never leave the club unless it's taken out for tournaments. The same rules for licensing and insurance shall apply, on top of which your club will need its own licensing and insurance, as well as maintaining a pool of accredited and regularly audited trainers.

Being in possession of a weapon illegally shall be subject to incarceration of no less than 24 months. Using a weapon illegally shall be subject to incarceration for a period of no less than 60 months, but potentially up to life.

In other words, time to grow up and stop behaving like a nation of irresponsible teenagers.
Signature. You just read one.
 
JJJ
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:15 am

B777LRF wrote:
.

For target shooting, including clay shooting and other such sports, you must be a member of an accredited club and your weapon must never leave the club unless it's taken out for tournaments. The same rules for licensing and insurance shall apply, on top of which your club will need its own licensing and insurance, as well as maintaining a pool of accredited and regularly audited trainers.


That's a bit too much. Sometimes you have to work on the gun so definitely have to take it home regularly.

I have colleagues who keep the gun at the club locker most of the time though, simply because they don't want to buy an expensive safe or have kids at home and just don't want the risk.
 
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lolapaluuza
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:14 pm

I also thought for a long time that everyone should have such an opportunity. After I lived for several years in Europe and Asia (for work), I saw a completely different mentality and they simply do not have such an idea in their heads, they do not even think about it too much. And so I now doubt it.
 
slider
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:31 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Guns in private ownership shall be a well a tightly regulated exception, subject to rigorous controls, steep penalties for abuse and regulated to the highest possible level. In practice that will mean you'll need a license, hold insurance and be prepared to be audited at regular and unannounced intervals if you want to keep the gun at home. Weapons kept at home shall be limited to single- or double barrel hunting rifles, which will not only be expensive to purchase due to taxation of such weapons, but also be very, very hard to get a license to own and keep at home. Moreover, you shall prove to the authorities you are capable of safely storing the weapon and its ammunition at your home, effectively making it impossible to be used for any other than the authorised owner. You may own one, and just one, hunting rifle. Sale of ammunition shall be tightly regulated and subject to annual quotas; you will need to provide proof of identify as well as your hunting license when purchasing ammunition, and you will only be allowed to purchase a very limited number of rounds per month. Outside of hunting season sale of ammunition will be forbidden.

For target shooting, including clay shooting and other such sports, you must be a member of an accredited club and your weapon must never leave the club unless it's taken out for tournaments. The same rules for licensing and insurance shall apply, on top of which your club will need its own licensing and insurance, as well as maintaining a pool of accredited and regularly audited trainers.

Being in possession of a weapon illegally shall be subject to incarceration of no less than 24 months. Using a weapon illegally shall be subject to incarceration for a period of no less than 60 months, but potentially up to life.

In other words, time to grow up and stop behaving like a nation of irresponsible teenagers.


Your position is one I will fight with every fiber of my being.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7457
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:03 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Guns in private ownership shall be a well a tightly regulated exception, subject to rigorous controls, steep penalties for abuse and regulated to the highest possible level. In practice that will mean you'll need a license, hold insurance and be prepared to be audited at regular and unannounced intervals if you want to keep the gun at home. Weapons kept at home shall be limited to single- or double barrel hunting rifles, which will not only be expensive to purchase due to taxation of such weapons, but also be very, very hard to get a license to own and keep at home. Moreover, you shall prove to the authorities you are capable of safely storing the weapon and its ammunition at your home, effectively making it impossible to be used for any other than the authorised owner. You may own one, and just one, hunting rifle. Sale of ammunition shall be tightly regulated and subject to annual quotas; you will need to provide proof of identify as well as your hunting license when purchasing ammunition, and you will only be allowed to purchase a very limited number of rounds per month. Outside of hunting season sale of ammunition will be forbidden.

For target shooting, including clay shooting and other such sports, you must be a member of an accredited club and your weapon must never leave the club unless it's taken out for tournaments. The same rules for licensing and insurance shall apply, on top of which your club will need its own licensing and insurance, as well as maintaining a pool of accredited and regularly audited trainers.

Being in possession of a weapon illegally shall be subject to incarceration of no less than 24 months. Using a weapon illegally shall be subject to incarceration for a period of no less than 60 months, but potentially up to life.

In other words, time to grow up and stop behaving like a nation of irresponsible teenagers.


It’s your attitude that treats citizens as infants incapable of being responsible adults. 99.8% of US legal gin owners have a safe record of managing their firearms without nanny state interference with their lives. Legal owners have a record better than police officers in many states.
 
johns624
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:49 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Guns in private ownership shall be a well a tightly regulated exception, subject to rigorous controls, steep penalties for abuse and regulated to the highest possible level. In practice that will mean you'll need a license, hold insurance and be prepared to be audited at regular and unannounced intervals if you want to keep the gun at home. Weapons kept at home shall be limited to single- or double barrel hunting rifles, which will not only be expensive to purchase due to taxation of such weapons, but also be very, very hard to get a license to own and keep at home. Moreover, you shall prove to the authorities you are capable of safely storing the weapon and its ammunition at your home, effectively making it impossible to be used for any other than the authorised owner. You may own one, and just one, hunting rifle. Sale of ammunition shall be tightly regulated and subject to annual quotas; you will need to provide proof of identify as well as your hunting license when purchasing ammunition, and you will only be allowed to purchase a very limited number of rounds per month. Outside of hunting season sale of ammunition will be forbidden.

For target shooting, including clay shooting and other such sports, you must be a member of an accredited club and your weapon must never leave the club unless it's taken out for tournaments. The same rules for licensing and insurance shall apply, on top of which your club will need its own licensing and insurance, as well as maintaining a pool of accredited and regularly audited trainers.

Being in possession of a weapon illegally shall be subject to incarceration of no less than 24 months. Using a weapon illegally shall be subject to incarceration for a period of no less than 60 months, but potentially up to life.

In other words, time to grow up and stop behaving like a nation of irresponsible teenagers.
Uh...no. Make that NO!!!!
Who is acting like an irresponsible teenager? From your spelling, I take it you might be British. Once again, thanks but no thanks!
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:33 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Moreover, you shall prove to the authorities you are capable of safely storing the weapon and its ammunition at your home, effectively making it impossible to be used for any other than the authorised owner.


Doing so will make it 'effectively impossible' to have quick access and protect your family/property from those who use illegal weapons, and there are (and will be) many.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:26 pm

Elkadad313 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
Moreover, you shall prove to the authorities you are capable of safely storing the weapon and its ammunition at your home, effectively making it impossible to be used for any other than the authorised owner.


Doing so will make it 'effectively impossible' to have quick access and protect your family/property from those who use illegal weapons, and there are (and will be) many.



In his US, every home will be treated to a “no knock” search (government approved home invasion) and any firearms found confiscated, all 300+ million of them. Get with the program, we’re just teenagers who can’t be trusted.
 
flash330
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:44 pm

My opinion as a brit is that if the constitution was being created today i don't think the right to own a firearm would gain support and I think there would heavy opposition from the police. Just my two cents.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:37 pm

I've had my time on the soapbox, and suffer from no illusions anything I write here will have anyone change their minds. Further discussions on the topic will only be going around in circles, and I've never been much of a circus fan.
Signature. You just read one.
 
Max Q
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:19 am

It is free speech however, however hard the right tries to muzzle it with their bigotry and hatred we still have that right
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:35 am

Nobody, on any side, is denying free speech, but if it’s none of one’s business, why exercise your rights for something you have no “skin in the game”? As I said, I don’t tell others how to live or run their countries. You might look at the cancel movement for groups that want to shut off speech from the Left.
 
Max Q
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:00 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Nobody, on any side, is denying free speech, but if it’s none of one’s business, why exercise your rights for something you have no “skin in the game”? As I said, I don’t tell others how to live or run their countries. You might look at the cancel movement for groups that want to shut off speech from the Left.



Commenting on how people live in other countries is most certainly covered by free speech


Incidentally we just canceled your leader pretty effectively
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:49 am

If you’re referring to Trump, I’ll repeat for the millionth time—I. DID. NOT. VOTE. FOR. HIM. I do however support SOME of his acts, think he’s way out of touch on others and generally a buffoon. Biden won by 43,809 votes in the three states that won him the Presidency while losing lots of seats down ballot—not a landslide. But, whatever.

It might be free speech, but what’s the reason for opining, or telling others how to livein, on a foreign country other than trolling? As I said, I don’t tell or care how others live, why tell me how to live?
 
TSS
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:54 am

Max Q wrote:
It is free speech however, however hard the right tries to muzzle it with their bigotry and hatred we still have that right


Ummm... Maybe you haven't been paying attention for the last few years but it has actually been the Left that has been trying to muzzle if not entirely stamp out free speech by calling any opinion they don't agree with "hate speech" as well as deplatforming and/or canceling anyone who might present a reasonable argument to their views.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
If you’re referring to Trump, I’ll repeat for the millionth time—I. DID. NOT. VOTE. FOR. HIM. I do however support SOME of his acts, think he’s way out of touch on others and generally a buffoon. Biden won by 43,809 votes in the three states that won him the Presidency while losing lots of seats down ballot—not a landslide. But, whatever.

It might be free speech, but what’s the reason for opining, or telling others how to livein, on a foreign country other than trolling? As I said, I don’t tell or care how others live, why tell me how to live?


Just make this your mantra: Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but under no circumstance are all opinions valid. Example- Some random dude in Upper Slobovia can have a very strong opinion about gun laws in the US and how they should be implemented based on his experience living in Slobovia, but since he has never even visited the US let alone lived here, his opinion is completely irrelevant and counts for nothing. Let him blow off steam if he wants to: What he says matters not and doesn't affect you at all.

As another example, here's an exchange Seb and I had in a different thread a while back:

TSS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
My biggest point is that many people who are outraged don't even live there, do not have the desire to visit there, and honestly believe from what they have been told that California is un-American.


Welcome to my world, buddy. How many times have there been comments or even entire threads on here critical of the South in general or Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, or Florida in particular filled with outrage from people who don't even live there, have never visited there, do not have the desire to visit there, and honestly believe from what they have been told that the South is un-American? Do I attempt to argue with those posters knowing full well that nothing I type could ever change their ironclad opinions in the slightest? Do I get all butt-hurt over such commentary and try to get those comments and/or threads deleted or locked? Nope, mostly I just laugh at how many of and to what extent the comments are grossly exaggerated, hopelessly outdated, or just plain old incorrect and I get on with the rest of my day.


Now, those two points having been cleared up, back to the topic of the thread, Guns, and a couple of videos of people having responsible fun with same:

Homeless man sneaks onto shooting range and takes 50 caliber rifle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4oinqKL-Eo

Stanley Thermos LYING About Being BulletProof??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gYqddO3Nbs
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bennett123
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:08 pm

GalaxyFlyer

Accepting that 99.8% of legal gun owners are not a problem, what do you propose to deal with those who are a problem?.

Given that many cases relate to those who were mentally unstable at the time, perhaps that is a good place to start looking.
 
johns624
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:32 pm

bennett123 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer

Accepting that 99.8% of legal gun owners are not a problem, what do you propose to deal with those who are a problem?.

Given that many cases relate to those who were mentally unstable at the time, perhaps that is a good place to start looking.
First, I'd hammer the illegal gun people...you know-the drug dealers, gang members (interchangeable) and the ilk.
 
bennett123
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:33 pm

How many of the mass killings involved those who are held legally and how many by those held illegally.
 
johns624
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:47 pm

bennett123 wrote:
How many of the mass killings involved those who are held legally and how many by those held illegally.
I'd say mass killings are probably from people who slipped under the radar while most of total homicides by far are illegal gun owners.
 
Aircellist
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:40 pm

Today is the 40th anniversary of John Lennon's death. Yoko Ono posted on Twitter a picture that says more than 1,436,000 persons have been killed by guns in the USA since then.

Just sayin'.

And no, I did not check her sources. She lives there, not me.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
johns624
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:45 pm

Aircellist wrote:
Today is the 40th anniversary of John Lennon's death. Yoko Ono posted on Twitter a picture that says more than 1,436,000 persons have been killed by guns in the USA since then.

Just sayin'.

And no, I did not check her sources. She lives there, not me.
I checked and she seems to be a bit high. That being said, her figures include suicides, accidents, justified shootings, etc. The figures for homicides are much lower. The only stats I could find were 213,000 gun homicides from 1999-2016. If you averaged that over 40 years, it would be 473,000 gun homicides.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:27 am

Here are some gun stats.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

Active shooter incidents continue to spike,

Image

And interestingly the states with more restrictive gun laws, are better statistically for gun deaths.

Image
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Aircellist
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:43 pm

johns624 wrote:
Aircellist wrote:
Today is the 40th anniversary of John Lennon's death. Yoko Ono posted on Twitter a picture that says more than 1,436,000 persons have been killed by guns in the USA since then.

Just sayin'.

And no, I did not check her sources. She lives there, not me.
I checked and she seems to be a bit high. That being said, her figures include suicides, accidents, justified shootings, etc. The figures for homicides are much lower. The only stats I could find were 213,000 gun homicides from 1999-2016. If you averaged that over 40 years, it would be 473,000 gun homicides.


Thanks for the check, Johns.

So, that leaves more than one million suicides, accidents, justified shootings… in 40 years, so 25,000 per year…

In my eyes, it is still quite a lot…
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
johns624
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Re: Political Position (Guns)

Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:50 pm

casinterest wrote:

And interestingly the states with more restrictive gun laws, are better statistically for gun deaths.

Image
That chart would be more interesting if it disclosed where in the states the preponderance of those shootings occurred. Also, how can per capita killings be "adjusted for age"?
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Political Position (Guns)

Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:15 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

And interestingly the states with more restrictive gun laws, are better statistically for gun deaths.

Image
That chart would be more interesting if it disclosed where in the states the preponderance of those shootings occurred. Also, how can per capita killings be "adjusted for age"?



It would be interesting for the states themselves.

Pew pulled the stats from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), and according to the CDC

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosm ... irearm.htm

States are categorized from highest rate to lowest rate. Although adjusted for differences in age-distribution and population size, rankings by state do not take into account other state specific population characteristics that may affect the level of mortality. When the number of deaths is small, rankings by state may be unreliable due to instability in death rates.


So they are trying to adjust for the age distribution within states.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain

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