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LH658
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Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:58 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-54554286

Israel and Sudan formalized relationship. This will allow Sudan to open up to the World, as now the US will remove them from the state sponsor terrorism list.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:49 am

Trump campaigning to foreign leaders, what about his own people? I'm all for the peace process but I'm sure Netanyahu doesn't care who helps, in fact he even said so himself!
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alfa164
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:19 am

LH658 wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-54554286 Israel and Sudan formalized relationship. This will allow Sudan to open up to the World, as now the US will remove them from the state sponsor terrorism list.


Well that changes my vacation plans already!

;)
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LH658
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:34 am

alfa164 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-54554286 Israel and Sudan formalized relationship. This will allow Sudan to open up to the World, as now the US will remove them from the state sponsor terrorism list.


Well that changes my vacation plans already!

;)


To give Sudan credit, the Red Sea coast that border's Sudan is lovely.
 
LH658
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:36 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Trump campaigning to foreign leaders, what about his own people? I'm all for the peace process but I'm sure Netanyahu doesn't care who helps, in fact he even said so himself!


I urge all to vote for Biden just to save America's sanity.
 
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stl07
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:26 am

LH658 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-54554286 Israel and Sudan formalized relationship. This will allow Sudan to open up to the World, as now the US will remove them from the state sponsor terrorism list.


Well that changes my vacation plans already!

;)


To give Sudan credit, the Red Sea coast that border's Sudan is lovely.

I'm sure it is, and I would love to see it after about 100+ other countries lol.


Edit: nevermind, I totally forgot that Jordan has red sea diving as well
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kaitak
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:59 pm

It's a positive trend and any states that seek to normalise relations after, well, never actually having normal relations is welcome. That's No3 after the UAE and Bahrain; who will be next? Kuwait? Oman? The Saudis are open to it, but only once a settlement deal is worked out with the Palestinians - which may not be for quite a while.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:06 pm

I don't respect Trump at all. He's an idiot and also a total jerk. But fact that Trump has better than "establishment" diplomats in the Middle East is a stunning humiliation of standard diplomacy.

You're pretty corrupt and you're pretty incompetent if Trump is doing it better than you. We need to evaluate professionals on the basis of whether their performance is worse than Trump's. If they are worse than Trump, they need to retire immediately, and their contributions should be re-evaluated with the greatest skepticism. And such people should never, ever be called experts.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:38 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
I don't respect Trump at all. He's an idiot and also a total jerk. But fact that Trump has better than "establishment" diplomats in the Middle East is a stunning humiliation of standard diplomacy.

You're pretty corrupt and you're pretty incompetent if Trump is doing it better than you. We need to evaluate professionals on the basis of whether their performance is worse than Trump's. If they are worse than Trump, they need to retire immediately, and their contributions should be re-evaluated with the greatest skepticism. And such people should never, ever be called experts.


Not sure about Sudan, but the previous “peace treaties” brokered between Israel and UAE/Bahrain were shams. None of those countries were at war, and had backchannel communications and co-operation for at least a decade.

This is all about shoring up the US/Israel/Saudi/Gulf axis against the Iran/Iraq/Syria axis, which is now backed by China.

You’re essentially seeing the Cold War 2.0 playing out live
 
bennett123
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:23 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-54674313

'The subject of the dam came up and Mr Trump and Mr Hamdok expressed hopes for a peaceful resolution to the dispute.

But Mr Trump also said "it's a very dangerous situation because Egypt is not going to be able to live that way" '.

He continued: "And I said it and I say it loud and clear - they'll blow up that dam. And they have to do something."

Still the three wise monkeys at the back applauded.

So he celebrates peace in one place by prompting a war elsewhere. Still he can always sell some guns.
 
alfa164
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:07 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
I don't respect Trump at all. He's an idiot and also a total jerk. But fact that Trump has better than "establishment" diplomats in the Middle East is a stunning humiliation of standard diplomacy..


Except that this was not really a "diplomatic" operation; surely you don't think that the U.S. position on selling F-35's to the UAE wasn't a condition of this agreement, do you? Trump is not succeeding in diplomacy; he is succeeding in bribery - something he seems to know very well. The result is an escalation of firepower among the Gulf nations. I am not sure that bodes well for the future.
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Pellegrine
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:29 pm

Who cares. Sudan and their 3 ATM machines and 10 phone lines. Selling all their crude to the Chinese. Who literally cares.
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L410Turbolet
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:41 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Who cares. Sudan and their 3 ATM machines and 10 phone lines. Selling all their crude to the Chinese. Who literally cares.


Had this been achieved by Jimmy "Hamas" Carter, the left would be tripping over themselves with praise for him. Disclaimer: I am no fan of Trump.

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Not sure about Sudan, but the previous “peace treaties” brokered between Israel and UAE/Bahrain were shams. None of those countries were at war, and had backchannel communications and co-operation for at least a decade.

If both parties agree, why sould Israel not have standard diplomatic relations with said countries instead of "backchannel dealings"?
 
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:13 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Who cares. Sudan and their 3 ATM machines and 10 phone lines. Selling all their crude to the Chinese. Who literally cares.


Isn’t that a prejudiced comment, putting down a nation?
 
alfa164
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:34 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Who cares. Sudan and their 3 ATM machines and 10 phone lines. Selling all their crude to the Chinese. Who literally cares.

Isn’t that a prejudiced comment, putting down a nation?


I guess the truth hurts...

;)
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Pellegrine
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:38 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Who cares. Sudan and their 3 ATM machines and 10 phone lines. Selling all their crude to the Chinese. Who literally cares.


Isn’t that a prejudiced comment, putting down a nation?


I live between Washington DC; Geneva, CH; and Providenciales, Turks and Caicos. Like Melania Trump said: "I don't care, do you?" (But I'm a Democrat) They are very nice people though, their government on the other hand...
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maverick4002
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:56 am

LH658 wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-54554286

Israel and Sudan formalized relationship. This will allow Sudan to open up to the World, as now the US will remove them from the state sponsor terrorism list.


Now I dont know an background information here, but was Sudan designated as terrorist sponsor ONLY because they didnt support / work with Israel or wtvr?
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:08 am

LCDFlight wrote:
I don't respect Trump at all. He's an idiot and also a total jerk. But fact that Trump has better than "establishment" diplomats in the Middle East is a stunning humiliation of standard diplomacy.

You're pretty corrupt and you're pretty incompetent if Trump is doing it better than you. We need to evaluate professionals on the basis of whether their performance is worse than Trump's. If they are worse than Trump, they need to retire immediately, and their contributions should be re-evaluated with the greatest skepticism. And such people should never, ever be called experts.

Well, given all the lack of transparency from him and his administration, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a quid-pro-quo in the works. For example, the UAE wants in on the F35 project; Sudan needs access to IMF loans. The US likely dangled all of these in front of them and said "recognize Israel and you'll get what you want". As Sudan just recently freed herself from Omar al-Bashir, I can see why the interim government would take whatever its being offered if it means it'll get access to financial assistance. As for the UAE, even though there's a peace agreement, Israel is not too keen on letting the country get a piece of the F35.

That's not how you make lasting peace deals. You're buying peace. All the while, the real issue that prevented a deal from being worked out in the very beginning is still there, and all it takes for a hostile government to take over to reverse that progress.

Kudos for having yet another nation enter peace with Israel, but we have to call a spade a spade.

kaitak wrote:
Kuwait? Oman? The Saudis are open to it, but only once a settlement deal is worked out with the Palestinians - which may not be for quite a while.

I can see Oman being next in line; it already had a low level trade delegation in the past and the new Sultan is said to be more pragmatic with the West. What's not being mentioned, however, are other Muslim countries which have technically never (directly) been at war with Israel and for which the current status is not really doing much of anything. Malaysia and Indonesia, perhaps a couple more African countries like Mauritania, Mali, and Morocco?
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Kent350787
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:10 am

The Sudanese foreign minister subsequently clarifed that it's actually an agreement to work towards normalisation.

I've nothing against the US seeking to assist Israel in these endeavours, but it really is just the low hanging fruit to allow the administration to claim some pre-election kudos
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:17 am

maverick4002 wrote:
Now I dont know an background information here, but was Sudan designated as terrorist sponsor ONLY because they didnt support / work with Israel or wtvr?

They hosted groups like Al Qaeda and Hezbollah in the 90s, culminating with hosting bin Laden and supporting the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, and the USS Cole attack.
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Sokes
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:26 am

So Trump helps the hardliner Netanjahu. I suppose that's the right reward for Netanjahu's settlement policy?
What did Trump do for the Palestinians?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Sokes
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:32 am

LCDFlight wrote:
I don't respect Trump at all. He's an idiot and also a total jerk. But fact that Trump has better than "establishment" diplomats in the Middle East is a stunning humiliation of standard diplomacy.

You're pretty corrupt and you're pretty incompetent if Trump is doing it better than you.

If you think Trump's policy is better than those of earlier administrations, why do you call him an idiot?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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c933103
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:37 am

Sokes wrote:
So Trump helps the hardliner Netanjahu. I suppose that's the right reward for Netanjahu's settlement policy?
What did Trump do for the Palestinians?

Trump helped suspending the inclusion of those settlement into official Israel policy, last time I checked.
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maverick4002
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:47 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
Now I dont know an background information here, but was Sudan designated as terrorist sponsor ONLY because they didnt support / work with Israel or wtvr?

They hosted groups like Al Qaeda and Hezbollah in the 90s, culminating with hosting bin Laden and supporting the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, and the USS Cole attack.


Ok, and them working with Israel now has now made those facts not important anymore? I guess I just find it curious that they are terrorists today and then because they want to work with Israel, they are not terrorists anymore.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:12 am

maverick4002 wrote:
Ok, and them working with Israel now has now made those facts not important anymore? I guess I just find it curious that they are terrorists today and then because they want to work with Israel, they are not terrorists anymore.

Well, among the deals made was to pay compensation for the victims (and their families) of the USS Cole attack. I assume there's more behind the scenes action, such as Sudan formally renouncing support for terrorism and fully cooperating to eliminate groups within her borders.

Bottom line: Sudan needs money; cooperating with the US and recognizing Israel (as well as eliminating terrorist groups) is probably a small price to pay to get access to international loans.

A parallel example: Libya. Back in the 00s when it renounced its nuclear weapons, it gained access to the world economy. It had been listed as a state sponsor of terrorism up until it gave up its nuclear arsenal, allowing the country to get rid of US sanctions.

There is still a waiting period for it and I believe Congress can reverse the decision.
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Sokes
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:13 am

c933103 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
So Trump helps the hardliner Netanjahu. I suppose that's the right reward for Netanjahu's settlement policy?
What did Trump do for the Palestinians?

Trump helped suspending the inclusion of those settlement into official Israel policy, last time I checked.

Point taken.
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Sokes
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:15 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
A parallel example: Libya. Back in the 00s when it renounced its nuclear weapons, it gained access to the world economy. It had been listed as a state sponsor of terrorism up until it gave up its nuclear arsenal, allowing the country to get rid of US sanctions.

I didn't knew Libya had nuclear weapons. You have a source?
If true:
Libya, Irak, Iran, is there a pattern?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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c933103
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:25 am

c933103 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
So Trump helps the hardliner Netanjahu. I suppose that's the right reward for Netanjahu's settlement policy?
What did Trump do for the Palestinians?

Trump helped suspending the inclusion of those settlement into official Israel policy, last time I checked.

* territory
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Sokes
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:40 am

c933103 wrote:
territory

Self explaining

I just thought a bit more over it. Seems to be a case of "Only Nixon could go to China".
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olle
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:06 pm

Israel has been using the non peace with Arabic countries as an excuse for land expansion and occupation.

So now will economical support Arabic countries is changing their stance.

They tried in Syria to get gas pipelines thru the countries and failed after the civil war has in all practical means finished.

Syria civil war became in real terms a fight between Russia stopping gas to EU and some Arabic states trying to push thru it.

Now it seems like there is another push and Israel needs to be part of it to get the pipelines to the sea.
 
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c933103
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:51 pm

Sokes wrote:
c933103 wrote:
territory

Self explaining

I just thought a bit more over it. Seems to be a case of "Only Nixon could go to China".

Given China's domestic politics at the time, I would say any US president can fulfill the role, but the question is who's willing to make such decision, and after all these decades was that really a good decision
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:08 pm

Sokes wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
A parallel example: Libya. Back in the 00s when it renounced its nuclear weapons, it gained access to the world economy. It had been listed as a state sponsor of terrorism up until it gave up its nuclear arsenal, allowing the country to get rid of US sanctions.

I didn't knew Libya had nuclear weapons. You have a source?
If true:
Libya, Irak, Iran, is there a pattern?

Apologies. They had chemical weapons (confirmed), though they had a nuclear program that had barely started development.

It's a Wiki link but backed up with references.

That being said, the US was never truly friendly with Libya as it was with Iraq and Iran. Even after Gaddafi dismantled Libya's WMD program, it never received advanced technology like Iraq and Iran did when they were allied with the US. And, of course, given Gaddafi's support to Hezbollah and other radical groups, Libya was placed in the SST list, until it denounced the groups and disclosed its stockpile.
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Aesma
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:20 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
I don't respect Trump at all. He's an idiot and also a total jerk. But fact that Trump has better than "establishment" diplomats in the Middle East is a stunning humiliation of standard diplomacy.

You're pretty corrupt and you're pretty incompetent if Trump is doing it better than you. We need to evaluate professionals on the basis of whether their performance is worse than Trump's. If they are worse than Trump, they need to retire immediately, and their contributions should be re-evaluated with the greatest skepticism. And such people should never, ever be called experts.


Is it really diplomacy when you're fomenting a war against Iran ?
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Sokes
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:19 am

olle wrote:
Syria civil war became in real terms a fight between Russia stopping gas to EU and some Arabic states trying to push thru it.

Can you expand?
Who wants to build a gas pipeline from where to where? Who is against it?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Sokes
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:56 am

c933103 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
I just thought a bit more over it. Seems to be a case of "Only Nixon could go to China".

Given China's domestic politics at the time, I would say any US president can fulfill the role, but the question is who's willing to make such decision, and after all these decades was that really a good decision

I am not sure what you are trying to say.

In his early career Nixon was engaged in the House Un-American Activities Committee, HUAC. So he was a representative of the Mc Carthy paranoia. But as president he went to Russia and China and even signed SALT 1.
Trump restarts the quarrel with Iran and shifts the embassy to Jerusalem. But it was Trump that successfully demanded from Netanjahu changes in settlement policies.
I believe settlement aren't expanded for time being?

What did you mean to say?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:42 am

Sokes wrote:
But it was Trump that successfully demanded from Netanjahu changes in settlement policies.
I believe settlement aren't expanded for time being?


Absolutely false.

Israeli settlement approvals in Palestine were greater in 2020 than in any year since 2012:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/ ... h-watchdog
 
Sokes
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:22 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
But it was Trump that successfully demanded from Netanjahu changes in settlement policies.
I believe settlement aren't expanded for time being?


Absolutely false.

Israeli settlement approvals in Palestine were greater in 2020 than in any year since 2012:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/ ... h-watchdog

Apologies for my ill informed post. Thank you for the correction.
Here some more links:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ation-plan
https://www.timesofisrael.com/european- ... approvals/

So I'm back at my original statement:
What did Trump do for the Palestinians?

I'm confused. Israel controls the West Bank anyway. If they annex 30%, would Palestinians in this area get the vote? Or would only areas without Palestinians get annexed?
What legal difference if a village is annexed compared to today?
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c933103
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:19 am

Sokes wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Sokes wrote:
I just thought a bit more over it. Seems to be a case of "Only Nixon could go to China".

Given China's domestic politics at the time, I would say any US president can fulfill the role, but the question is who's willing to make such decision, and after all these decades was that really a good decision

I am not sure what you are trying to say.

In his early career Nixon was engaged in the House Un-American Activities Committee, HUAC. So he was a representative of the Mc Carthy paranoia. But as president he went to Russia and China and even signed SALT 1.
Trump restarts the quarrel with Iran and shifts the embassy to Jerusalem. But it was Trump that successfully demanded from Netanjahu changes in settlement policies.
I believe settlement aren't expanded for time being?

What did you mean to say?

From the way you use those "but" in your sentence I guess we view those events differently.
The action of Nixon approaching China could be seen as a friendly move with the Communist regime in control of China, but it is also a move that would weaken Soviet's position in the Communist bloc. Signing SALT would also limit the growth of Soviet threat.
Trump restarts quarrel with Iran is in line with the interest of local American partners, mainly Saudi and their fellows. Shifting embassy to Jerusalem is in line with the interest of Netanjahu. Trump's role as arbitrator is beneficial to both of these American allies (that's why they agree with the proposal): Netanjau gained a bigger victory in diplomacy than territorial expansion, while Saudi and their fellows have an excuse to normalize their tie and collaboration with Israel, without having to be pushed to the brim of war by Israel's action.
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olle
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:08 am

Sokes wrote:
olle wrote:
Syria civil war became in real terms a fight between Russia stopping gas to EU and some Arabic states trying to push thru it.

Can you expand?
Who wants to build a gas pipeline from where to where? Who is against it?


There is big plans for gas pipes from Qatar to Turkey EU. If this passes Israel it can reach the sea and Israel and probably Cuprus can sell to EU.

My thoughts is what USA has as stake into this while USA also is trying to export to EU but has problem with pricing.

https://www.middleeastobserver.org/2016 ... and-syria/

Is the Qatar gas behind the continuous war in Libya and Syria?

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/094 ... 659dcc8df8

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-ea ... b63a9afb74
 
bennett123
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:32 am

Sokes

I think that the plan is to increase the Jewish population of the West Bank to ensure that the required political outcome is maintained.

I very much doubt that Palestinian control of Israel will be permitted. Given the succession of coalition governments in Israel in recent years, this would be a big risk if Israel annexed this territory with the existing demographic.
 
olle
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:49 am

bennett123 wrote:
Sokes

I think that the plan is to increase the Jewish population of the West Bank to ensure that the required political outcome is maintained.

I very much doubt that Palestinian control of Israel will be permitted. Given the succession of coalition governments in Israel in recent years, this would be a big risk if Israel annexed this territory with the existing demographic.


This is what it is all about...

Mr Bernadotte saw already in 1940s that Jews and Palestinians are bound together.

The question will it be as 2 equal states, 2 equal people? Will a Jewish state survive?

We need to remember that 70 years of occupation has made the Palestinians a people living all over the world often well educated. Similar to the Jews. Today is mostly Jewish people moving to Israel but if the conditions for Palestinians improves they also might start to move back.

I believe for a long time Jewish and Palestinian populations will be a bit 50-50 and depending who is answering the question the answer differ if it will be a Palestinian or Jewish majority in the land used to be called Palestina or greater Israel.

I hope that new generations on both sides figure out that peace and a future worth believing in is more important then religion.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:57 pm

About US shale gas exports, a contract has been postponed by Engie after an intervention of the French government, owing to methane emissions caused by fracking and related activities : https://www.reuters.com/article/engie-l ... SKBN27808G

The trade tensions are also probably a factor.
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c933103
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:00 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Sokes

I think that the plan is to increase the Jewish population of the West Bank to ensure that the required political outcome is maintained.

I very much doubt that Palestinian control of Israel will be permitted. Given the succession of coalition governments in Israel in recent years, this would be a big risk if Israel annexed this territory with the existing demographic.

According to my understanding, the part of West Bank Israel trying to annex is already having a Jewish majority population, thanks to its geography causing relative few Palestinian living in the area, while there are comparatively large number of Jewish people living in Israeli settlement in that area.
If annexed, it will cut off West Bank from having land connection with the neighboring Arabic country Jordan, turning it into an enclave of Israel completely surrounded by its territory, and also make it possible for Israel to control the water supply to rest of West Bank with that patch of land being a significant origin of that.
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bennett123
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:03 pm

How long has it had a majority Jewish population?.
 
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c933103
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:16 pm

c933103 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Sokes

I think that the plan is to increase the Jewish population of the West Bank to ensure that the required political outcome is maintained.

I very much doubt that Palestinian control of Israel will be permitted. Given the succession of coalition governments in Israel in recent years, this would be a big risk if Israel annexed this territory with the existing demographic.

According to my understanding, the part of West Bank Israel trying to annex is already having a Jewish majority population, thanks to its geography causing relative few Palestinian living in the area, while there are comparatively large number of Jewish people living in Israeli settlement in that area.
If annexed, it will cut off West Bank from having land connection with the neighboring Arabic country Jordan, turning it into an enclave of Israel completely surrounded by its territory, and also make it possible for Israel to control the water supply to rest of West Bank with that patch of land being a significant origin of that.


bennett123 wrote:
How long has it had a majority Jewish population?.

Sorry, I have misread the population figure.
The numer of Jewish population in the area is 12778 as of 2017
The number of Palestinian in the area is 8775 + 44175 = 52950.
https://yubanet.com/world/data-on-netan ... ation-map/
So the area, even with relatively few Palestinian and with numerous Jewish settlement, and even after conveniently excluding a Palestinian-majority area in the center of it, is still dominantly settled by Palestinian.

But I guess that number doesn't matter too much to Israeli government when the total Israel population is close to like 9 million
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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olle
Posts: 2470
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:34 pm

c933103 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Sokes

I think that the plan is to increase the Jewish population of the West Bank to ensure that the required political outcome is maintained.

I very much doubt that Palestinian control of Israel will be permitted. Given the succession of coalition governments in Israel in recent years, this would be a big risk if Israel annexed this territory with the existing demographic.

According to my understanding, the part of West Bank Israel trying to annex is already having a Jewish majority population, thanks to its geography causing relative few Palestinian living in the area, while there are comparatively large number of Jewish people living in Israeli settlement in that area.
If annexed, it will cut off West Bank from having land connection with the neighboring Arabic country Jordan, turning it into an enclave of Israel completely surrounded by its territory, and also make it possible for Israel to control the water supply to rest of West Bank with that patch of land being a significant origin of that.


bennett123 wrote:
How long has it had a majority Jewish population?.

Sorry, I have misread the population figure.
The numer of Jewish population in the area is 12778 as of 2017
The number of Palestinian in the area is 8775 + 44175 = 52950.
https://yubanet.com/world/data-on-netan ... ation-map/
So the area, even with relatively few Palestinian and with numerous Jewish settlement, and even after conveniently excluding a Palestinian-majority area in the center of it, is still dominantly settled by Palestinian.

But I guess that number doesn't matter too much to Israeli government when the total Israel population is close to like 9 million


As I understand it israel plus westbank plus gaza has more or less equal jewish and palestinian population with palestinian population is expected to grow faster yhe the jewish population.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:46 am

More Winning...

Netanyahu met Saudi crown prince, Pompeo in Saudi Arabia on Sunday, Israeli radio stations report

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-isra ... 830JJ?il=0

The Dems are all Talk. They and their MSM lackeys will downplay the meeting: "Saudi Prince had an Israel hating Saudi Crown hating dissident eliminated..." These meetings are actions that count. But Trump said this, or that... Actions over words. But they focus only on words... 'actions are only good if done by a Dem' attitude.
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vrbarreto
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:38 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
More Winning...

Netanyahu met Saudi crown prince, Pompeo in Saudi Arabia on Sunday, Israeli radio stations report

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-isra ... 830JJ?il=0

The Dems are all Talk. They and their MSM lackeys will downplay the meeting: "Saudi Prince had an Israel hating Saudi Crown hating dissident eliminated..." These meetings are actions that count. But Trump said this, or that... Actions over words. But they focus only on words... 'actions are only good if done by a Dem' attitude.


Ahem

Saudi Arabia's foreign minister has denied that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu flew to the Gulf kingdom on Sunday to secretly meet Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55042055

Must try harder

D-

edit and btw Reuters are 'MSM'
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:28 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
More Winning...


How?

Israel and Saudi Arabia have been co-operating covertly in the region for years Their goals are similar, defeat Iran. All these "peace treaties" are is a way for the Saudi/Sunni/Israeli side to shore up their position against Iran/Shias. These "peace treaties" are contributing to a cold war in the region and only increase the chance of war in the future. They are not "peace treaties", they are military alliances.

However with the election of Biden the US will not be as keen. The Biden Administration has indicated it will be less tolerant of the Saudis, and they will re-enter the Iran Nuclear Deal, which will bring trade and investment between the West and Iran and will be the greatest long term investment in peace in the region.

Of course all the pro-Israeli/Saudi types in the Trump Administration are having a meltdown over this and are trying to promote these "peace treaties" as a great achievement of Trump. Actually his only real contribution to the Middle East, the tearing up of the Iran deal, will be overturned very early into Biden's administration.
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Sudan Israel formalized relationship

Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:44 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
More Winning...


How?

Israel and Saudi Arabia have been co-operating covertly in the region for years Their goals are similar, defeat Iran. All these "peace treaties" are is a way for the Saudi/Sunni/Israeli side to shore up their position against Iran/Shias. These "peace treaties" are contributing to a cold war in the region and only increase the chance of war in the future. They are not "peace treaties", they are military alliances.

However with the election of Biden the US will not be as keen. The Biden Administration has indicated it will be less tolerant of the Saudis, and they will re-enter the Iran Nuclear Deal, which will bring trade and investment between the West and Iran and will be the greatest long term investment in peace in the region.

Of course all the pro-Israeli/Saudi types in the Trump Administration are having a meltdown over this and are trying to promote these "peace treaties" as a great achievement of Trump. Actually his only real contribution to the Middle East, the tearing up of the Iran deal, will be overturned very early into Biden's administration.



Why bother.. It's like the ija nutter isolated on a Pacific atoll still convinced that the war is still taking place and victory is just in sight...

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