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Elkadad313
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In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:42 pm

Rev. Jarrett Maupin, Phoenix civil rights activist, has described officers as 'bigots with badges and guns.

A few months ago he was invited to participate in a police use of force training session covering shoot – don’t shoot scenarios / split-second life or death decisions. Afterwards, he said “I didn’t understand how important compliance was. But after going through this (police training exercise) my attitude has changed, as this is all unfolding in 10-15 seconds people need to comply with the orders of law enforcement officers for their own safety.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_py1N9onog

He called it (the training session) “very eye opening.” He continued, “There is no cowardice in complying, there is no indignity in complying, if your civil rights are violated you need to live to tell the tale. Comply and live, don’t reject the officer’s instructions and die (then) no one will hear your story.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvP0qJ-RU6A

Another report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAJXP0okzwk

=====

Basic common sense. The police are not always correct, but it’s better to allow yourself to be wronged and live to deal with it via legal means rather than the often deadly alternative.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:49 pm

Hmmm, you should always comply with a nut job with a gun, regardless of weather they have a badge or not. Comply with terrorists too I’d guess from the logic here.

Fred


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Elkadad313
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:08 am

flipdewaf wrote:
Hmmm, you should always comply with a nut job with a gun, regardless of weather they have a badge or not. Comply with terrorists too I’d guess from the logic here.

Fred


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So, you favor resistance over compliance?
 
bennett123
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:12 am

Do you favor complying with terrorists?.
 
FGITD
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:19 am

Funny, they used to say something similar about being on a hijacked airplane
 
N867DA
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:01 am

Two words for cops: build trust.

There are precious few reasons for me to trust the police as an institution. Compliance beats dying, but cops have the ultimate Golden Ticket in the legal system. The best course of action is to avoid cops in day to day life. Don't do stupid things, try not to be a victim.
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alfa164
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:20 am

Two words: respect, non-discrimination
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Elkadad313
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:21 am

N867DA wrote:
Two words for cops: build trust.

There are precious few reasons for me to trust the police as an institution. Compliance beats dying, but cops have the ultimate Golden Ticket in the legal system. The best course of action is to avoid cops in day to day life. Don't do stupid things, try not to be a victim.

I agree, it's important to build trust. But that's difficult when a cop believes his/her safety is in question. Here's a good example of a cop not having time to 'build trust' (interestingly, this occurred last week in a city located just south of Kenosha, Wisconsin):

How the MSM shapes the news:

From USA Today (shows multiple protests but omits video of the incident):
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 054903002/

The local news put out the FULL video (for some reason it shows the initial event later, at 3:12):
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/w ... g/2360634/

Before the tape was released, the driver stated she “drove away (backwards) slowly because she was scared to get out of the car.” She said the officer started firing after she lost control of the vehicle and crashed.

Both lies. It was not slowly, and the officer fired when she backed the car towards him, not after she crashed it. This is an example of how the minority community gets riled up easily. The driver was stopped after fleeing an arrest scenario. It has not yet been established if the cop (the shooter) to the left of the car with the dash cam had time to avoid being hit. In any event, he was fired for not having his body cam turned on.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:37 am

It's interesting that even in cases where "simple compliance" is carried out, many Black lives have been ended (Philando Castile from MN comes to mind).

But given that you insist on compliance, I'd love to see Americans practicing simple compliance. Someone breaks into your house? Just comply with their demands. Someone carjacks you? Just comply. A criminal takes a loved one as hostage unless you give in to their demands? Just comply. And if they're shot, then it's your fault for not complying as intended.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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Tugger
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:50 am

In two words? Easy:

Don't shoot.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Elkadad313
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:37 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
It's interesting that even in cases where "simple compliance" is carried out, many Black lives have been ended (Philando Castile from MN comes to mind).

But given that you insist on compliance, I'd love to see Americans practicing simple compliance. Someone breaks into your house? Just comply with their demands. Someone carjacks you? Just comply. A criminal takes a loved one as hostage unless you give in to their demands? Just comply. And if they're shot, then it's your fault for not complying as intended.

You appear to be intelligent enough to know and reasonable enough to admit the vast majority of cases where ‘simple compliance’ is carried out, very few black lives have ended. Even one is too many, but no need for exaggeration to make your point. In one of your examples, if someone breaks into your home and you able to protect it you shouldn’t do so in accordance with your apparent strange values. The homeowner was not doing anything to create a potential conflict. Nor was the carjacking victim or the hostage. Don’t you see the radical difference between your scenarios and the thread’s subject matter?

Tugger wrote:
In two words? Easy:

Don't shoot.

Tugg


Typical Monday morning quarterback comment.
 
N867DA
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:55 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
N867DA wrote:
Two words for cops: build trust.

There are precious few reasons for me to trust the police as an institution. Compliance beats dying, but cops have the ultimate Golden Ticket in the legal system. The best course of action is to avoid cops in day to day life. Don't do stupid things, try not to be a victim.

I agree, it's important to build trust. But that's difficult when a cop believes his/her safety is in question. Here's a good example of a cop not having time to 'build trust' (interestingly, this occurred last week in a city located just south of Kenosha, Wisconsin):

How the MSM shapes the news:

From USA Today (shows multiple protests but omits video of the incident):
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 054903002/

The local news put out the FULL video (for some reason it shows the initial event later, at 3:12):
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/w ... g/2360634/

Before the tape was released, the driver stated she “drove away (backwards) slowly because she was scared to get out of the car.” She said the officer started firing after she lost control of the vehicle and crashed.

Both lies. It was not slowly, and the officer fired when she backed the car towards him, not after she crashed it. This is an example of how the minority community gets riled up easily. The driver was stopped after fleeing an arrest scenario. It has not yet been established if the cop (the shooter) to the left of the car with the dash cam had time to avoid being hit. In any event, he was fired for not having his body cam turned on.


Look, man. Say it’s a good shoot. The cop is justified. The guy was being non-compliant, or even worse the guy was trying to communicate to the cop but did so poorly. There’s confusion, the cop fears for his or her life and shoots.

Now let’s say it was me. I mean well, but communicate poorly. We live in a country where a glint of metal, even the pocketknife I keep in my car for emergencies, is a mortal threat. I get shot, and it is an objectively good shoot. This, for better or worse, happens.

I’m still dead or significantly maimed and all my parents would get is the assurance it was all a misunderstanding and the cop really is a nice person. I think this gets missed—for law enforcement and courts the aftermath is procedural. But people who lack this trust know it could be them (I accept this sentence applies to cops too).

Seems i can avoid all that by just not interacting with cops at all unless absolutely necessary. There are many good cops, and society needs cops but I’m not I’m not much of a gambler.

Please also don’t take my rant to say I’m being fair—I know I’m not. I’m just preserving my welfare as much as I can.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
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Tugger
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:57 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
In two words? Easy:

Don't shoot.

Tugg


Typical Monday morning quarterback comment.

Well yeah, of course? I t was a simplistic Monday morning quarterback question, post.

You wanted two words.
What else do you expect?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:59 am

It's a free country... everyone gets to decide whether to comply or not. There are consequences. I have figured out that my chances of surviving are better if I comply. If other feel differently, then I understand. you can only go with what you believe are best chances of survival.
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Pellegrine
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:10 am

Yes Black people should be bitches to the law and to white people's whims. Just like in slavery times. The ignorant, stupid pickaninnys.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
luckyone
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:15 am

I was ALWAYS told to respect police officers, they’re underpaid etc etc, and you’re technically under arrest any time they stop you and therefore butter better not melt in your mouth, yes sir no sir etc etc etc.

Mother’s Day, 1994. We’re coming home from church riding in my moms then-new Mazda Protege, and get caught in traffic from another church letting out (is this only something that Southerners experience??). This particular church was one of the first in the area to hire police to direct traffic during the letout after services, which for reasons irritated both of my parents. The officer directing traffic apparently was not pleased with where or how my dad stopped, signaled more forcefully, which my dad in a rather narcissistic fashion ignored. The cop then told my dad to pull the car over. My dad, pulled over, bowed up and got out of the car and yelled at the officer about how he hadn’t done anything wrong. The cop ultimately told him that if he didn’t get back in the car he would be arrested and the cop didn’t want to do that on Mother’s Day. My dad, being a narcissist but not a stupid one walked away but kept blustering. When he got back in the car he bellowed for the next mile or so about cops being full of themselves and you can’t let them push you around. My mother was pissed.

I, as an adult, get to reconcile those mixed messages about compliance.
 
luckyone
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:18 am

Pellegrine wrote:
Yes Black people should be bitches to the law and to white people's whims. Just like in slavery times. The ignorant, stupid pickaninnys.

If you’re going to use satire at least use it correctly. Pickaninny only refers to a young black girl. It’s derived from the Portuguese “pequenino” which means little child.
 
Elkadad313
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:59 am

Tugger wrote:
Well yeah, of course? It was a simplistic Monday morning quarterback question, post. You wanted two words. What else do you expect?

Thanks for your help, but I already provided the two words.

Pellegrine wrote:
Yes Black people should be bitches to the law and to white people's whims. Just like in slavery times. The ignorant, stupid pickaninnys.

Many uncompliant Blacks are killed by Black and Latino officers. Are they racists too?
 
tommy1808
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:55 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
In two words? Easy:

Don't shoot.

Tugg


Typical Monday morning quarterback comment.


nah.. something professional police forces are exceedingly good at all over the planet without getting themselves killed. They also manage to stop criminals without punching enough holes into them to make sure no EMT or hospital can safe them.

So, the only correct two words are "competent cops".

Which i am sure do exist in the US as well, but unless people like you stop making excuses for loony incompetence in blue and black and start removing those from police forces and make sure they never ever have any job ever again that has them carry a weapon, the mentally ill "blacks need to be put in their place" folks will keep applying for LE jobs.
Proper psych evaluation before hiring them could effectively root them out, but in a country where police forces don´t even care about fire discipline or cops being able to hit what they aim for under stress, that is probably too expensive.

Your advise is to be more compliant than saying "Yes Sir, please Sir" until you run out of breath. Almost everytime a suspect got killed by a cop in the US, it turns out they have a history of abusing suspects. Every single one of those instances would have gotten them fired with loss of pension here. As it should be.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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c933103
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:36 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
In two words? Easy:

Don't shoot.

Tugg


Typical Monday morning quarterback comment.


nah.. something professional police forces are exceedingly good at all over the planet without getting themselves killed. They also manage to stop criminals without punching enough holes into them to make sure no EMT or hospital can safe them.

So, the only correct two words are "competent cops".

Which i am sure do exist in the US as well, but unless people like you stop making excuses for loony incompetence in blue and black and start removing those from police forces and make sure they never ever have any job ever again that has them carry a weapon, the mentally ill "blacks need to be put in their place" folks will keep applying for LE jobs.
Proper psych evaluation before hiring them could effectively root them out, but in a country where police forces don´t even care about fire discipline or cops being able to hit what they aim for under stress, that is probably too expensive.

Your advise is to be more compliant than saying "Yes Sir, please Sir" until you run out of breath. Almost everytime a suspect got killed by a cop in the US, it turns out they have a history of abusing suspects. Every single one of those instances would have gotten them fired with loss of pension here. As it should be.

best regards
Thomas

But aren't crime scene in the US usually more volatile due to the gun law?
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Aaron747
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:46 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Well yeah, of course? It was a simplistic Monday morning quarterback question, post. You wanted two words. What else do you expect?

Thanks for your help, but I already provided the two words.

Pellegrine wrote:
Yes Black people should be bitches to the law and to white people's whims. Just like in slavery times. The ignorant, stupid pickaninnys.

Many uncompliant Blacks are killed by Black and Latino officers. Are they racists too?


I am just curious what say you about compliance when public health authorities ask people to mask up when out in a pandemic. The economy would be a lot better and a lot more things open if people simply complied.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
tommy1808
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:16 am

c933103 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:

Typical Monday morning quarterback comment.


nah.. something professional police forces are exceedingly good at all over the planet without getting themselves killed. They also manage to stop criminals without punching enough holes into them to make sure no EMT or hospital can safe them.

So, the only correct two words are "competent cops".

Which i am sure do exist in the US as well, but unless people like you stop making excuses for loony incompetence in blue and black and start removing those from police forces and make sure they never ever have any job ever again that has them carry a weapon, the mentally ill "blacks need to be put in their place" folks will keep applying for LE jobs.
Proper psych evaluation before hiring them could effectively root them out, but in a country where police forces don´t even care about fire discipline or cops being able to hit what they aim for under stress, that is probably too expensive.

Your advise is to be more compliant than saying "Yes Sir, please Sir" until you run out of breath. Almost everytime a suspect got killed by a cop in the US, it turns out they have a history of abusing suspects. Every single one of those instances would have gotten them fired with loss of pension here. As it should be.

best regards
Thomas

But aren't crime scene in the US usually more volatile due to the gun law?


Not really .... unless you can be near certain there won´t be guns, you have to assume there might be. And regardless of that, it wouldn´t explain the abysmal fire discipline. Plus the bit that even most US cops don´t riddle suspects with bullets or strangle them to death, and those work in the exact same environment.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:19 am

Tugger wrote:
What else do you expect?


"you are absolutely right, its those black peoples own fault".

Can´t wait for the next smash hit thread: "In two words, what would have saved most rape victims from being raped: dress descent"

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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c933103
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:23 am

tommy1808 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

nah.. something professional police forces are exceedingly good at all over the planet without getting themselves killed. They also manage to stop criminals without punching enough holes into them to make sure no EMT or hospital can safe them.

So, the only correct two words are "competent cops".

Which i am sure do exist in the US as well, but unless people like you stop making excuses for loony incompetence in blue and black and start removing those from police forces and make sure they never ever have any job ever again that has them carry a weapon, the mentally ill "blacks need to be put in their place" folks will keep applying for LE jobs.
Proper psych evaluation before hiring them could effectively root them out, but in a country where police forces don´t even care about fire discipline or cops being able to hit what they aim for under stress, that is probably too expensive.

Your advise is to be more compliant than saying "Yes Sir, please Sir" until you run out of breath. Almost everytime a suspect got killed by a cop in the US, it turns out they have a history of abusing suspects. Every single one of those instances would have gotten them fired with loss of pension here. As it should be.

best regards
Thomas

But aren't crime scene in the US usually more volatile due to the gun law?


Not really .... unless you can be near certain there won´t be guns, you have to assume there might be. And regardless of that, it wouldn´t explain the abysmal fire discipline. Plus the bit that even most US cops don´t riddle suspects with bullets or strangle them to death, and those work in the exact same environment.

best regards
Thomas

Could decentralization of police in US a possible cause of their lack of standard?
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tommy1808
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:33 am

c933103 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
But aren't crime scene in the US usually more volatile due to the gun law?


Not really .... unless you can be near certain there won´t be guns, you have to assume there might be. And regardless of that, it wouldn´t explain the abysmal fire discipline. Plus the bit that even most US cops don´t riddle suspects with bullets or strangle them to death, and those work in the exact same environment.

best regards
Thomas

Could decentralization of police in US a possible cause of their lack of standard?


as a contributing factor for sure, but other countries police forces are decentralized as well and seem to do just fine. Probably not to the "is this really a police officer, a private security guard or just someone cosplaying" level of everything having its own police force level, but non the less decentralized.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flipdewaf
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In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:37 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Hmmm, you should always comply with a nut job with a gun, regardless of weather they have a badge or not. Comply with terrorists too I’d guess from the logic here.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So, you favor resistance over compliance?

That’s a false dichotomy.

Comply with authority, get on the ship like you’ve been asked and we’ll (half) deal with the rights issue in a couple of hundred years or so. I wonder why this doesn’t work any more. Oh yeah, the rights issue and behaviour of those in authority isn’t held up on that part of the deal. It took country wide riots and protests for the perps to be arrested this summer. If you want to stop riots, three words, treat people fairly.

If it’s up to people to comply and they don’t then I don’t see why you are bothered?

Fred


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c933103
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:43 am

tommy1808 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Not really .... unless you can be near certain there won´t be guns, you have to assume there might be. And regardless of that, it wouldn´t explain the abysmal fire discipline. Plus the bit that even most US cops don´t riddle suspects with bullets or strangle them to death, and those work in the exact same environment.

best regards
Thomas

Could decentralization of police in US a possible cause of their lack of standard?


as a contributing factor for sure, but other countries police forces are decentralized as well and seem to do just fine. Probably not to the "is this really a police officer, a private security guard or just someone cosplaying" level of everything having its own police force level, but non the less decentralized.

best regards
Thomas

Are police force in other countries also decentralized in the sense that there are no national guideline and standard on police?
If so, then what caused the differences?
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tommy1808
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:46 am

c933103 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Could decentralization of police in US a possible cause of their lack of standard?


as a contributing factor for sure, but other countries police forces are decentralized as well and seem to do just fine. Probably not to the "is this really a police officer, a private security guard or just someone cosplaying" level of everything having its own police force level, but non the less decentralized.

best regards
Thomas

Are police force in other countries also decentralized in the sense that there are no national guideline and standard on police?
If so, then what caused the differences?


at least here States decide their own Police Law and training standards, and they are widely varying especially with regards to weapons carriage and use.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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c933103
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:49 am

flipdewaf wrote:
Comply with authority, get on the ship like you’ve been asked and we’ll (half) deal with the rights issue in a couple of hundred years or so. I wonder why this doesn’t work any more. Oh yeah, the rights issue and behaviour of those in authority isn’t held up on that part of the deal. It took country wide riots and protests for the perps to be arrested this summer. If you want to stop riots, three words, treat people fairly.

If it’s up to people to comply and they don’t then I don’t see why you are bothered?

I am nit sure how useful this comparison is since the version of history I have came across indicate most African being sent to America and other countries as slave were captured or arrested instead by othered by authority to do so.
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astuteman
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:14 am

Tugger wrote:
In two words? Easy:

Don't shoot.

Tugg


Or to be a bit controversial (in the USA, not anywhere else in the developed world) - Gun Control

I've already posted the data on other threads that killings by all other means are representative between the USA and the UK, with the USA typically slightly worse.
And then you add the gun deaths.
USA gun killings dwarf everything else combined in most other developed countries by large orders of magnitude.
26 killings in the UK vs 12,000 in the USA

How this complete insanity is untangled, sadly, is a question that I don't really have an answer for.
You could pass a law perhaps and trust the population to be "simply compliant"
What do you think?

Aaron747 wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Well yeah, of course? It was a simplistic Monday morning quarterback question, post. You wanted two words. What else do you expect?

Thanks for your help, but I already provided the two words.

Pellegrine wrote:
Yes Black people should be bitches to the law and to white people's whims. Just like in slavery times. The ignorant, stupid pickaninnys.

Many uncompliant Blacks are killed by Black and Latino officers. Are they racists too?


I am just curious what say you about compliance when public health authorities ask people to mask up when out in a pandemic. The economy would be a lot better and a lot more things open if people simply complied.


:bigthumbsup:
I really liked this challenge, and I'd be absolutely fascinated to see just how selective "simple compliance" is, especially when Covid19 is killing way more people than gun crime is, even in the USA.
Maybe the example set by the nation's leader with respect to "simple compliance" should be followed.
Oh, wait a minute........
You do realise I guess that the irony will be completely lost on those inside the echo chamber.....

Rgds
 
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:27 am

Aaron747 wrote:
I am just curious what say you about compliance when public health authorities ask people to mask up when out in a pandemic. The economy would be a lot better and a lot more things open if people simply complied.


Indeed! Karens are whining about wearing masks "I can't breath." Try it with a cop kneeling on your neck.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:12 am

c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Comply with authority, get on the ship like you’ve been asked and we’ll (half) deal with the rights issue in a couple of hundred years or so. I wonder why this doesn’t work any more. Oh yeah, the rights issue and behaviour of those in authority isn’t held up on that part of the deal. It took country wide riots and protests for the perps to be arrested this summer. If you want to stop riots, three words, treat people fairly.

If it’s up to people to comply and they don’t then I don’t see why you are bothered?

I am nit sure how useful this comparison is since the version of history I have came across indicate most African being sent to America and other countries as slave were captured or arrested instead by othered by authority to do so.


Authority: the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience. Whoever enslaved these people had authority be they British, Gambian, Dutch, Spanish. the issue is with compliance with an Authority that appears not to have someones best interests at heart.

Fred
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bennett123
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:25 am

I think that the point being made is that until about 1840-1850, no white men had gone into the interior of Africa.

If the slaves came from the interior then someone must have taken them to the coast and sold them to the White men.
 
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:37 am

flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Comply with authority, get on the ship like you’ve been asked and we’ll (half) deal with the rights issue in a couple of hundred years or so. I wonder why this doesn’t work any more. Oh yeah, the rights issue and behaviour of those in authority isn’t held up on that part of the deal. It took country wide riots and protests for the perps to be arrested this summer. If you want to stop riots, three words, treat people fairly.

If it’s up to people to comply and they don’t then I don’t see why you are bothered?

I am nit sure how useful this comparison is since the version of history I have came across indicate most African being sent to America and other countries as slave were captured or arrested instead by othered by authority to do so.


Authority: the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience. Whoever enslaved these people had authority be they British, Gambian, Dutch, Spanish. the issue is with compliance with an Authority that appears not to have someones best interests at heart.

Fred

I mean, many of them seems to be captured or arrested and then become slave, instead of being ordered into or have others enforcing power over them to become slave.
I don't think the US/European slave traders simply visited the Africa and order/decide the people there become slave, in most cases
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flipdewaf
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:41 am

c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I am nit sure how useful this comparison is since the version of history I have came across indicate most African being sent to America and other countries as slave were captured or arrested instead by othered by authority to do so.


Authority: the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience. Whoever enslaved these people had authority be they British, Gambian, Dutch, Spanish. the issue is with compliance with an Authority that appears not to have someones best interests at heart.

Fred

I mean, many of them seems to be captured or arrested and then become slave, instead of being ordered into or have others enforcing power over them to become slave.
I don't think the US/European slave traders simply visited the Africa and order/decide the people there become slave, in most cases

Woop woop woop!! deflection alarm triggered!!!

So you are saying they should comply with the police because it may well be the judicial services that treat them badly?

What a total crock of shit!

Fred
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c933103
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:44 am

flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:

Authority: the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience. Whoever enslaved these people had authority be they British, Gambian, Dutch, Spanish. the issue is with compliance with an Authority that appears not to have someones best interests at heart.

Fred

I mean, many of them seems to be captured or arrested and then become slave, instead of being ordered into or have others enforcing power over them to become slave.
I don't think the US/European slave traders simply visited the Africa and order/decide the people there become slave, in most cases

Woop woop woop!! deflection alarm triggered!!!

So you are saying they should comply with the police because it may well be the judicial services that treat them badly?

What a total crock of shit!

Fred

What
My stance is always that this is not comparable.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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flipdewaf
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:45 am

c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I mean, many of them seems to be captured or arrested and then become slave, instead of being ordered into or have others enforcing power over them to become slave.
I don't think the US/European slave traders simply visited the Africa and order/decide the people there become slave, in most cases

Woop woop woop!! deflection alarm triggered!!!

So you are saying they should comply with the police because it may well be the judicial services that treat them badly?

What a total crock of shit!

Fred

What
My stance is always that this is not comparable.


And what makes your stance correct?

Fred
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c933103
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:48 am

flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Woop woop woop!! deflection alarm triggered!!!

So you are saying they should comply with the police because it may well be the judicial services that treat them badly?

What a total crock of shit!

Fred

What
My stance is always that this is not comparable.


And what makes your stance correct?

Fred

That your conclusion of if police are those who capture slave, then judicial system would be slave trader, which is obviously untrye.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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flipdewaf
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:52 am

c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
What
My stance is always that this is not comparable.


And what makes your stance correct?

Fred

That your conclusion of if police are those who capture slave, then judicial system would be slave trader, which is obviously untrye.

Lol, and this is why the trouble is happening. The fear and distrust of the authority figures in society which have perpetually belittled and treated whole swathes of society that they are supposed to protect badly and unfairly is then demarked down to a series technical who did what to who and missing the entire point of authority figures in general, you have been a great advert as to what is actually wrong.

Fred
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:02 am

flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:

And what makes your stance correct?

Fred

That your conclusion of if police are those who capture slave, then judicial system would be slave trader, which is obviously untrye.

Lol, and this is why the trouble is happening. The fear and distrust of the authority figures in society which have perpetually belittled and treated whole swathes of society that they are supposed to protect badly and unfairly is then demarked down to a series technical who did what to who and missing the entire point of authority figures in general, you have been a great advert as to what is actually wrong.

Fred

Your response is like saying,
No matter why the plane crashed, the pilots and airlines chief must be responsible for it, focus on these figures instead of facts pointed out by investigation result
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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flipdewaf
Posts: 3711
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:10 am

c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
That your conclusion of if police are those who capture slave, then judicial system would be slave trader, which is obviously untrye.

Lol, and this is why the trouble is happening. The fear and distrust of the authority figures in society which have perpetually belittled and treated whole swathes of society that they are supposed to protect badly and unfairly is then demarked down to a series technical who did what to who and missing the entire point of authority figures in general, you have been a great advert as to what is actually wrong.

Fred

Your response is like saying,
No matter why the plane crashed, the pilots and airlines chief must be responsible for it, focus on these figures instead of facts pointed out by investigation result


Yes, if there were several thousand plane crashes per year and and in a not insignificant number of them the pilots were clearly responsible but somehow managed to get way from the accountabilities through a technicality and perpetually evaded prosecution through loopholes that have existed since the time of the early railways and similarly allowed dangerous practices to be continued.

Oh! and finally it must be a requirement that you travel by plane, not a choice as remember you cannot choose not to deal with police...only comply.

Other than that a great analogy, congratulations.

Fred
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c933103
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:22 am

flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
Lol, and this is why the trouble is happening. The fear and distrust of the authority figures in society which have perpetually belittled and treated whole swathes of society that they are supposed to protect badly and unfairly is then demarked down to a series technical who did what to who and missing the entire point of authority figures in general, you have been a great advert as to what is actually wrong.

Fred

Your response is like saying,
No matter why the plane crashed, the pilots and airlines chief must be responsible for it, focus on these figures instead of facts pointed out by investigation result


Yes, if there were several thousand plane crashes per year and and in a not insignificant number of them the pilots were clearly responsible but somehow managed to get way from the accountabilities through a technicality and perpetually evaded prosecution through loopholes that have existed since the time of the early railways and similarly allowed dangerous practices to be continued.

Oh! and finally it must be a requirement that you travel by plane, not a choice as remember you cannot choose not to deal with police...only comply.

Other than that a great analogy, congratulations.

Fred

There are several thousand cases each year that Blacks in the United States are being killed when facing police and a not insignificant number of them shows police are responsible for them?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:23 am

tommy1808 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

as a contributing factor for sure, but other countries police forces are decentralized as well and seem to do just fine. Probably not to the "is this really a police officer, a private security guard or just someone cosplaying" level of everything having its own police force level, but non the less decentralized.

best regards
Thomas

Are police force in other countries also decentralized in the sense that there are no national guideline and standard on police?
If so, then what caused the differences?


at least here States decide their own Police Law and training standards, and they are widely varying especially with regards to weapons carriage and use.

best regards
Thomas

So that would be dozens of police authority in your place? But US apparently have thousand+
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flipdewaf
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:37 am

c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Your response is like saying,
No matter why the plane crashed, the pilots and airlines chief must be responsible for it, focus on these figures instead of facts pointed out by investigation result


Yes, if there were several thousand plane crashes per year and and in a not insignificant number of them the pilots were clearly responsible but somehow managed to get way from the accountabilities through a technicality and perpetually evaded prosecution through loopholes that have existed since the time of the early railways and similarly allowed dangerous practices to be continued.

Oh! and finally it must be a requirement that you travel by plane, not a choice as remember you cannot choose not to deal with police...only comply.

Other than that a great analogy, congratulations.

Fred

There are several thousand cases each year that Blacks in the United States are being killed when facing police and a not insignificant number of them shows police are responsible for them?

Wait!? You think the mistrust in authority is only about police killing black folks?

This feels like an insight we’re getting here

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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c933103
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:38 am

flipdewaf wrote:
c933103 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:

Yes, if there were several thousand plane crashes per year and and in a not insignificant number of them the pilots were clearly responsible but somehow managed to get way from the accountabilities through a technicality and perpetually evaded prosecution through loopholes that have existed since the time of the early railways and similarly allowed dangerous practices to be continued.

Oh! and finally it must be a requirement that you travel by plane, not a choice as remember you cannot choose not to deal with police...only comply.

Other than that a great analogy, congratulations.

Fred

There are several thousand cases each year that Blacks in the United States are being killed when facing police and a not insignificant number of them shows police are responsible for them?

Wait!? You think the mistrust in authority is only about police killing black folks?

This feels like an insight we’re getting here

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As an non-American that's what I was reading from your previous posts. Please offer correct explanation if that's not what you meant
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tommy1808
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:45 am

c933103 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Are police force in other countries also decentralized in the sense that there are no national guideline and standard on police?
If so, then what caused the differences?


at least here States decide their own Police Law and training standards, and they are widely varying especially with regards to weapons carriage and use.

best regards
Thomas

So that would be dozens of police authority in your place? But US apparently have thousand+


I am sure State and Federal government could set minimum standards if they chose to.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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par13del
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:45 pm

My issue with the initial post and thought is that it completely ignores point one, for black people, the issue usually starts with their colour, how are they supposed to comply with that? If they are stopped because of the colour of their skin it is all well and good to say everything after the stop is a result of their compliance and or non-compliance with the police. Fine, so after we get 1000% compliance of the entire black population world wide we will then look at the reason why they were stopped in the first place. I say world wide because in most cases we hear that police officers are in fear of their lives when dealing with black people so are always ready to draw their weapon and defend themselves, even in states where the black population is miniscule and interactions are few and far between.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:57 pm

The OP is right on the money on this subject.

Police is out there to protect the citizens from the bad guys, if they don't want to comply, its on the bad guys if they wish to obey or not, it may cost their lives, so be it. If its between the life of a police officer who is out there to protect us or the life of a bad guy (not matter the race), I would prefer the life of the bad guy. If not shooting the bad guy means the police officer won't go back to his family that night, I am not sympathetic to all the premise of not shooting or 'shooting on the leg' which is mostly impossible to succeed.

As for all of you people who prefer the bad guys rather than the police. I challenge you to publicly renounce to police protection ever in your life time for you and your family. And handle the bad guys better than the police if that's what you think you can do using the methods you 'believe' are better. Good luck!
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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par13del
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:03 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
The OP is right on the money on this subject.

Police is out there to protect the citizens from the bad guys, if they don't want to comply, its on the bad guys if they wish to obey or not, it may cost their lives, so be it.

If you believe that all police stops of black people including stop and frisk initiatives is because those black people are bad then yes, you are 100% correct and black people will also support you 100%, however.......
 
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casinterest
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Re: In two words, what would have saved and will save many Black lives: Simple compliance

Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:06 pm

Simple Compliance. Not going to work when you are dealing with racists .

https://news.yale.edu/2020/10/27/racial ... er-5-years

In an analysis of 4,653 fatal shootings for which information about both race and age were available, the researchers found a small but statistically significant decline in white deaths (about 1%) but no significant change in deaths for BIPOC. There were 5,367 fatal police shootings during that five-year period, according to the Post’s database. In the case of armed victims, Native Americans were killed by police at a rate three times that of white people (77 total killed). Black people were killed at 2.6 times the rate of white people (1,265 total killed); and Hispanics were killed at nearly 1.3 times the rate of white people (889 total killed). Among unarmed victims, Black people were killed at three times the rate (218 total killed), and Hispanics at 1.45 times the rate of white people (146 total killed).
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