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NIKV69
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Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:57 am

Very simple as far as I am concerned. My father came here from Italy. Declared himself at the border, was documented and became a citizen. It's good enough for him it's good enough for everyone else. I am for a Dream act but not the Harry Ried hand them amnesty stuff. If one party wants it as easy as just illegally jumping the border to get here and the other party wants to make it too hard we will never get immigration reform. There has to be middle ground.
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bennett123
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:13 pm

I suppose the system needs to be fair.

People will not hide under lorries, paddle the Channel in kayaks or walk across Death Valley if they believe that there is a reasonable that they will be allowed to enter by the front door.

Getting to that position is the hard bit.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:27 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I suppose the system needs to be fair.

People will not hide under lorries, paddle the Channel in kayaks or walk across Death Valley if they believe that there is a reasonable that they will be allowed to enter by the front door.

Getting to that position is the hard bit.


I'm afraid you're mistaken. Countries with a working immigration program have a set of admission requirements. Many will fail to meet these requirements. Some of those who didn't make the cut will hide under lorries, etc, etc
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:29 pm

My take is that the immigration system needs to be simplified. The processing time needs to be simplified, period.

Why are people doing things illegally to begin with? (It's not just entering the country illegally, as most so-call "illegal immigrant" case are visa overstay). Often time it's b/c the immigration system (the LEGAL one) is very convoluted and is a long process even for something as simple as bringing your spouse over to USA (Been there, done that).

Ultimately, USA simply shouldn't denied hard working people of making their dreams come true in USA, period, as those people benefit USA at the end of the day.
 
bennett123
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:35 pm

I suppose the question is why do they fail to meet the requirements, and do those requirements need to change to provide a legal route?.

I doubt that they are all rapists and drug dealers.

Also if you are living in poverty , is the cost of the immigration process a deterrent?.
 
LMP737
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:58 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Very simple as far as I am concerned. My father came here from Italy. Declared himself at the border, was documented and became a citizen. It's good enough for him it's good enough for everyone else. I am for a Dream act but not the Harry Ried hand them amnesty stuff. If one party wants it as easy as just illegally jumping the border to get here and the other party wants to make it too hard we will never get immigration reform. There has to be middle ground.


Well my grandfather jumped ship in New York harbor under an assumed named so I guess technically he was illegal. So I guess I can't get on a soap box about it.

I'll will make several points about it though. The current administration is trying to make it harder to legally immigrate to this country. Why do you think that is? Another point, when your countries foreign and domestic policy creates havoc in other parts of the world don't be so upset when someone shows up at your door looking for a place to live.
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:03 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I suppose the question is why do they fail to meet the requirements, and do those requirements need to change to provide a legal route?.


In my opinion and personal experience most candidates fail due to lack of education/skills required by the immigration program. And the immigration programs do change. I'd probably* wouldn't make the cut to immigrate to Canada now. Different skillsets are required.

bennett123 wrote:
I doubt that they are all rapists and drug dealers.


They definitely aren't. But there may be some other mistakes one made in the past that may make a candidate ineligible. I remember reading on some forum (could have been here) about an Australian guy who was denied immigration to Canada due to an old DUI charge.

bennett123 wrote:
Also if you are living in poverty , is the cost of the immigration process a deterrent?.



Definitely. And in case of Canada, you have to add to this the money one has to bring in to start the life here. Which is absolutely necessary if one wants to start without third party help.

* Now I wouldn't make the cut in the skilled worker category due to age
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Tugger
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:56 pm

I support immigration. And I think we need to increase our "quota allowance" and increase green cards and something equivalent to the Bracero program along with current H1b & H2a programs. etc. I say more immigration, more LEGAL immigration, with fees and rules and requirements that allow people we are in fact already having do work for the USA, be here and go home LEGALLY.

I do not however believe in granting automatic citizenship to those here illegally (caveat: the "DACA" program people I am OK with) and anyone who wants to participate in the above program ideas needs to apply and not be found to be here illegally to succeed (and if they are able to conceal that fact, well I won't waste time on it but again if found to be here illegally that will be an issue and to me one that at least delays any legal entrance by at least two years and if allowed to return under a legal program, exclude them from future citizenship options).

And regarding citizenship, if here under a legal program for 7 (10?) years they can apply and if found in good standing with no issues will be granted citizenship. People with a good record and proven work ethic, that pass the citizenship the and the other normal requirements etc. I have no problem with.

And finally, employers: That needs to be addressed firmly. Those that employ people illegally will face severe fines and jail time if violations are found. They will be excluded from federal contracts etc. There is no need for illegal employment with what I am suggesting.

Tugg
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There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
NIKV69
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:47 pm

LMP737 wrote:

I'll will make several points about it though. The current administration is trying to make it harder to legally immigrate to this country. Why do you think that is? Another point, when your countries foreign and domestic policy creates havoc in other parts of the world don't be so upset when someone shows up at your door looking for a place to live.


Immigration has to be controlled. That is how we got into this position with millions here illegally. As for other parts of the world I keep hearing from the Dems we aren't the worlds policeman. I guess we are when it means potential voters though? :talktothehand:

If you want to take people in seeking asylum they still have to play by the rules.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
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Tugger
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:56 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:

I'll will make several points about it though. The current administration is trying to make it harder to legally immigrate to this country. Why do you think that is? Another point, when your countries foreign and domestic policy creates havoc in other parts of the world don't be so upset when someone shows up at your door looking for a place to live.


Immigration has to be controlled. That is how we got into this position with millions here illegally. As for other parts of the world I keep hearing from the Dems we aren't the worlds policeman. I guess we are when it means potential voters though? :talktothehand:

If you want to take people in seeking asylum they still have to play by the rules.

I disagree that "limiting immigration" is the same as controlling it. In fact I think an unsupported limit is exactly why we do have an illegal immigration problem. I say open it up. Not "uncontrolled" but what I mentioned above. People here illegally are getting jobs, that is the primary reason why they are coming. So lets allow those jobs to be filled, legally. Let's control it and regulate it and have fees that pay to police it. Then when the people are done working they can go home and they return when the next job needs to be done. Why trap people?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
Ken777
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:57 pm

When you think about Trump's Troops ripping babies from their mothers you need to understand the need for a more moderate President to lead the country with sound judgement.

As far as "illegals" - if the 11 million or so were to rapidly lead the country we would head into da recession just as rapidly - maybe even a real depression during the pandemic.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:05 pm

I think the system needs to be reworked to make it more assessable (less expensive legal fees, make the history test a little less intimidating, etc) for the individual, but also close the loop holes and tighten background checks. We as a society also need to help erase the negative stigma of illegal immigrants.

For the Latin American immigrants, a lot of them are really coming from Central America down there (if Trump really wanted Mexico to pay for a wall, that's where it should be on their border with Guatemala and Belize). But we should build up their economies in the long run which would help build a middle class for them as well as losen our reliance on China and eventually bring them back to our sphere of influence. We have NAFTA for a reason so let's use it!
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casinterest
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:25 pm

We need a legal solution for the dreamers. Their parents dragged them here, we educated them. Let's let them be productive members of the society that they were raised in

Illegal Immigration: We need to nail employers that are hiring them. Building a wall does nothing to stop 60% of the issue, people overstaying visas.

We need more legal immigration if the employers are that desperate for workers. with a clear cut path to citizenship, or a two year work visa for those just wanting to try out the US for awhile.
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ER757
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:54 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Very simple as far as I am concerned. My father came here from Italy. Declared himself at the border, was documented and became a citizen. It's good enough for him it's good enough for everyone else. I am for a Dream act but not the Harry Ried hand them amnesty stuff. If one party wants it as easy as just illegally jumping the border to get here and the other party wants to make it too hard we will never get immigration reform. There has to be middle ground.

+1 - only difference is I'm 2nd generation born here and grandad came from Austria
 
VMCA787
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:19 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:

I'll will make several points about it though. The current administration is trying to make it harder to legally immigrate to this country. Why do you think that is? Another point, when your countries foreign and domestic policy creates havoc in other parts of the world don't be so upset when someone shows up at your door looking for a place to live.


Immigration has to be controlled. That is how we got into this position with millions here illegally. As for other parts of the world I keep hearing from the Dems we aren't the worlds policeman. I guess we are when it means potential voters though? :talktothehand:

If you want to take people in seeking asylum they still have to play by the rules.


I am a little confused about what you are saying. How does controlling immigration limit illegal entrants? If anything, taking the Trump approach, decreasing immigration and tightening the criteria to reduce immigration would, seems to me, increase the illegal entrants.
 
apodino
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:31 pm

One position I would support is for a modification of NAFTA. And under the modification we would say this. Any Citizen of the United States, Canada, and Mexico has the legal right to work in any of the above countries automatically. I think this would be fair, and I think it would help Mexican workers immensely. This is not unlike what is in place over in the EU at the moment. I am not advocating for a full blown Schengen type agreement though, because I do think there still needs to be border checks with the Drug Cartels operating, but as long as you can prove citizenship and don't have any contraband, you are good to cross.

One other thing I support as well. H1B reform. This has been abused to death by corporations to import cheap labor into the US as a replacement for capable American Workers. Disney is a great example of this, and they got away with it.

Also, if corporations are employing workers with no right to work in the US, they should face severe consequences. You would control illegal immigration much better if you cut off the demand for their services by these corporations. And this would benefit the workers too, as they are being exploited by these corporations.
 
Sokes
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:47 pm

Germany in the 1960s/ 1970s had full employment. In such a situation labour can demand higher salaries. German politicians decided to allow low skilled people in. I guess the idea was as such:
If the starting salaries decrease, all worker salaries will rather go down or at least stay stable.

Hans Werner Sinn believes one has to differentiate between acquired and inherited social services. An immigrant that works acquires demands on the (e.g. 2 years) unemployment insurance and retirement benefits. However social services like money for children, housing subsidies for poor and money in case of disability/ long term unemployment are inherited and shouldn't be available for immigrants.

IIRC in the US an migrant can't apply for social services for 10 years?

What immigrants?
An immigrant working in manufacturing doesn't replace a local worker. If there is no additional demand for the produce in the country, it can still be sold abroad.
There can however be effects on the salary levels.
But while employees of one branch of economy may face disadvantages, the country overall rather profits from added taxes.

Low skilled people are often best suited in the service sector. Each immigrant spends his income, creating new jobs. So while 10 low skilled immigrants won't take away 10 low skilled jobs from the local population, they may take away maybe half of it. Add their demand on housing. So low skilled people really have an interest that they don't get competition.

Same of course can be said from software engineers, but for them it's only a question of what size of car they can afford. Society profits from taxes of high skilled immigrants.
Most important: Software can be sold abroad. It's possible the industry is capable to absorb all local labor plus abroad labour.
Seen over generations immigration of smart, high qualified people helps society via taxes and poor people via added demand for low skilled service jobs.

When Merkel took in immigrants to relieve pressure from Southern Europe and maybe for other reasons ( I never really understand what Merkel intends), the question was how to employ them. A carpenter job in Germany has more demands than the same job in poor countries.

Immigrants who are taken in for humanitarian reasons shouldn't be allowed to get children.

A German dentist who supports immigration of poor people for humanitarian reasons can feel good and speak easy. These poor immigrants will create new demand for high skilled services.

If humanitarian help is desired one has to help the concerned countries. Giving money to politicians is a sure way to ruin these countries. But rich countries could offer education to poor countries provided the politicians of the poor countries agree that they have no right to supervise these schools.

A skilled person from one industrial country settling in another industrial country should not be an issue.

As a child I often heard that we need immigrants because Germans are not willing to work for garbage collection. Would there be no Germans willing to do it even if salaries are increased 30%?

The immigration of a high skilled worker saves society the cost of schooling.
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bennett123
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:18 pm

immigrants who are taken in for humanitarian reasons shouldn't be allowed to get children.

Not sure that I follow this bit.
 
maverick4002
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:10 am

I am not a Republican but I support fair immigration policies, but not without reason. I am not a fan of open borders but if you get here then you get here. Contrary to what the deplorables want to push, immigrants are some of the hardest working most driven people in this country. I've always said that we should do an experiment whereby immigrants dont work for a week (still get paid) and you will see how this country will collapse.

If you come here legally and overstay you time or illegally, it is what it is. If you commit a federal offense and are caught, deportation is in order. But organizations like ICE going after an undocumented person for jay-walking is ridiculous. ICE is trash but if you want to keep it, lets go after the source?

You want to stop undocumented people coming here, cut the attraction at the source. THE JOBS! Dont tackle some random individual, go after the organizations. The hotels, the restaurants, the farms etc. These are industries where these people are hired. Have huge fined levied against any organization with undocumented folks. They will stop hiring them, undocumented people wont come here/ over stay and problem essentially solved!
 
Sokes
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:55 am

bennett123 wrote:
immigrants who are taken in for humanitarian reasons shouldn't be allowed to get children.

Not sure that I follow this bit.

-Poor countries place great emphasis on children. Marriages may not be based on mutual respect and life is boring. But "a child is like a light in the house", as I was told in India. Forced sterilization should ensure that the destination is unattractive for most economic refugees.


-Most conflicts have growing population as least as contributing factor. To ask the other way round: how often do societies with shrinking population face war?
19th century Europe used to dump its population excess on America and South Africa. That's not the solution. If people have to flee because of population growth, they don't need to continue multiplying at the destination.
You may find this proposal disgusting. Suppose refugees get same rights as original population. How many people would like to migrate to Europe, 1 million, 10 millions, 100 millions, 1 billion?
I always get criticized for my radical proposals. Beside fences, you have an alternative?
Are fences or my proposal more inhuman?

In case you have to travel anytime and can take a daylight connecting flight via Cairo, do so. It's interesting to see all the new housing in the desert during approach.

-I am generally prejudiced against desert / half desert people. Historically at least part of half desert population lived nomadic lives. In a village you can call your neighbour if there is a thief. There may even be something like a police. If you move with a herd of goats from place to place and sleep wherever you reach, whom do you call? Aggression has an evolutionary advantage.
That's not a Muslim thing. I believe Rajasthanies and Punjabis make fabulous soldiers.

That's not to be confused with criminality. Syrian refugees in Germany have a criminality rate as high as Germans. Considering their economic situation a fabulous achievement.
There are many factors that decide aggression in society. Genetics is only one contributing factor.

I once told this desert people hypothesis to an Australian. He answered : "Funny to hear this from a German. "

Some cultures just don't fit to each other.
Can politics say we allow refugee immigrants from countries A, B and C children, but not from countries D and E.

I know that farming was brought to Europe 10.000 years back by people from Anatolia.
I wonder if I should have mentioned that to the Australian? :bouncy:
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
bennett123
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:22 am

I thought that you were talking sterilisation, just wanted to be that I was understanding you correctly.

Really hard to believe that you consider that this is a solution.

Also not clear about the relevance of your point about 'desert/semidesert' people.
 
Sokes
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:44 am

bennett123 wrote:
I thought that you were talking sterilisation, just wanted to be that I was understanding you correctly.

Really hard to believe that you consider that this is a solution.

Also not clear about the relevance of your point about 'desert/semidesert' people.

What is your solution? Fences, allow anybody in?
How did it work out for the local population when Europe dumped its excess births on South Africa/ America?
Sterilization is a compromise.

You are probably three quarter right about desert people. If a desert society had peace for two generations, it is probably more peaceful than a society with farming that had war within the same generation. So Afghan hot temper may be caused more by permanent foreign interference than by desert genetics. It's only a contributing factor.
Maybe I should have formulated more generally: It will be difficult to integrate refugees from countries which have more aggressive culture.
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Sokes
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:19 am

Do I ever avoid any criticism or inconvenient questions?
Why is it that my proposals are mostly criticized, but my questions remain unanswered?
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Sokes
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:27 am

maverick4002 wrote:
Contrary to what the deplorables want to push, immigrants are some of the hardest working most driven people in this country.

Not sure if you include me among the deplorables. Independent of it, I have observed the same in India. Those who go to work abroad have on average more drive.
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Dutchy
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:22 am

Sokes wrote:
I once told this desert people hypothesis to an Australian. He answered : "Funny to hear this from a German. "


I can understand the Australian reaction, I would just not call it "funny". I will leave it at that.
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L410Turbolet
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:46 am

Sokes wrote:
However social services like money for children, housing subsidies for poor and money in case of disability/ long term unemployment are inherited and shouldn't be available for immigrants.


You do realize that welfare payments (including reasonable degree of their abuse) is nothing but a tax on the working population? Safety tax, that reduces the risk you will get stabbed over a pack of cigarettes. It just defies any logic to import millions of unskilled, barely literate, who will inevitably be the first victim of automation within the next decade and then let them fall to the bottom.

Sokes wrote:
Immigrants who are taken in for humanitarian reasons shouldn't be allowed to get children.

I guess some ideas never go out of fashion in Germany. :roll: It's not too long since Ska Keller, a high ranking genossin from the Greens party (for those doubting existence of pro-islamist left, she is a prime example), suggested transfers of entire Syrian villages and their resettlement in Baltic countries. As if Baltic countries did not already have enough leftovers from Stalin's ethinc transfers.

Sokes wrote:
Suppose refugees get same rights as original population. How many people would like to migrate to Europe, 1 million, 10 millions, 100 millions, 1 billion?

One really has to wonder what is the ultimate goal of those advocating endless immigration. People like Peter Sutherland make it too easy for some people to believe there is some sinister agenda or master plan behind all of this:

The EU should "do its best to undermine" the "homogeneity" of its member states, the UN's special representative for migration has said.
Peter Sutherland told peers the future prosperity of many EU states depended on them becoming multicultural.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18519395
 
cpd
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:08 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
It just defies any logic to import millions of unskilled, barely literate, who will inevitably be the first victim of automation within the next decade and then let them fall to the bottom.


It’s perfectly logical, you just don’t see the logic. It’s about driving down wages of local workers. Furthermore, through various dodgy schemes you can drive wages down even further. These foreigners won’t complain about pay, nor will they complain about unsafe working conditions. They can be used and abused - to put it bluntly - to better productivity.

That’s all that matters in this day and age.
 
Sokes
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:49 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
I guess some ideas never go out of fashion in Germany. :roll:

My proposal is not related to eugenics. It's simple maths.

That apart:
Earlier German parents could decide to sterilize their strongly disabled children. Now they can't. IIRC that's not a simple law. It would require 2/3 majority to change it.

Suppose you have a son and he wants to marry and have children with a schizophrenic woman. Would you try to talk him out of it?
If yes, you also support eugenics.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:56 pm

cpd wrote:
L410Turbolet wrote:
It just defies any logic to import millions of unskilled, barely literate, who will inevitably be the first victim of automation within the next decade and then let them fall to the bottom.


It’s perfectly logical, you just don’t see the logic. It’s about driving down wages of local workers. Furthermore, through various dodgy schemes you can drive wages down even further. These foreigners won’t complain about pay, nor will they complain about unsafe working conditions. They can be used and abused - to put it bluntly - to better productivity.

That’s all that matters in this day and age.


Correct - and it's a nonpartisan business philosophy. Whatever gives better percentages to the powers that be wins out.
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Kiwirob
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:46 pm

ER757 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Very simple as far as I am concerned. My father came here from Italy. Declared himself at the border, was documented and became a citizen. It's good enough for him it's good enough for everyone else. I am for a Dream act but not the Harry Ried hand them amnesty stuff. If one party wants it as easy as just illegally jumping the border to get here and the other party wants to make it too hard we will never get immigration reform. There has to be middle ground.

+1 - only difference is I'm 2nd generation born here and grandad came from Austria


There’s a huge difference in an immigrant from a developed country to an immigrant from a developing country. One is an easier fit and can become productive from day one the other can take years If ever to be useful.
 
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DL717
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:58 pm

Come here legally or go home. Pretty damn simple.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:24 pm

DL717 wrote:
Come here legally or go home. Pretty damn simple.

Many (most?) do "come here legally". But then don't leave. That is why I advocate for increasing the ability to come and work and leave and return. Just sayin'

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
LMP737
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Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:28 am

NIKV69 wrote:

Immigration has to be controlled. That is how we got into this position with millions here illegally. As for other parts of the world I keep hearing from the Dems we aren't the worlds policeman. I guess we are when it means potential voters though? :talktothehand:

If you want to take people in seeking asylum they still have to play by the rules.


Are you trying to make the argument that this countries foreign and domestic policies have no affect on other parts of the world? All those people fleeing drug cartel violence south of the border, what market do you think those cartels are supplying? We sell weapons to Saudi Arabia which in turns use them to create a humanitarian disaster in Yemen. Our response, ban people from Yemen.
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LMP737
Posts: 6076
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:34 am

DL717 wrote:
Come here legally or go home. Pretty damn simple.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEiCbalBy2w
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
cpd
Posts: 6548
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:54 am

NIKV69 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:

I'll will make several points about it though. The current administration is trying to make it harder to legally immigrate to this country. Why do you think that is? Another point, when your countries foreign and domestic policy creates havoc in other parts of the world don't be so upset when someone shows up at your door looking for a place to live.


Immigration has to be controlled. That is how we got into this position with millions here illegally. As for other parts of the world I keep hearing from the Dems we aren't the worlds policeman. I guess we are when it means potential voters though? :talktothehand:

If you want to take people in seeking asylum they still have to play by the rules.


It should be made simpler and easier the better to allow companies to increase productivity (ie, force down wages). If workers don't want to accept lower wages they can be replaced with those who will work for less and in unsafe conditions. That's why you have to increase immigration.

Surely you must agree with that - it's straight out of the usual policies of the right.
 
LMP737
Posts: 6076
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:56 am

DL717 wrote:
Come here legally or go home. Pretty damn simple.


Quick question. My grandfather was not a citizen of the country he grew up in, he was born in another country. His parents were citizens of a third country. He jumped ship in New York harbor under an assumed name. I just wonder where he would have been sent home to. The country he grew up in but was not a citizen of? The country he was born in but had no memory of? Or the country his parents were from, which was Russia when they left. Which became the USSR soon after and was ruled by one of histories greatest monsters.
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Aaron747
Posts: 12706
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:59 am

DL717 wrote:
Come here legally or go home. Pretty damn simple.


The current administration has made coming legally much more difficult, so it’s not that simple. My buddy’s Australian wife just got delayed again over technicalities - they want more documentation that wasn’t asked for before. They have been separated almost ten months now.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LMP737
Posts: 6076
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Political Position (Immigration)

Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:36 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Very simple as far as I am concerned. My father came here from Italy. Declared himself at the border, was documented and became a citizen. It's good enough for him it's good enough for everyone else. I am for a Dream act but not the Harry Ried hand them amnesty stuff. If one party wants it as easy as just illegally jumping the border to get here and the other party wants to make it too hard we will never get immigration reform. There has to be middle ground.


Did he come here before or after the Immigration Act of 1924?
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