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mdsh00
Posts: 4053
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:35 am

marcelh wrote:
Great speech of the President, he just claimed victory. Let the riots start...


He didn't win yet. Ballots are still being counted.
 
Derico
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:37 am

Well, right on cue, he acted like a PM and also just fanned the flames more than any time in the prior 4 years, by declaring himself president. Banana republics everywhere endorse that message.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
dragon-wings
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:55 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:39 am

Derico wrote:
Well, right on cue, he acted like a PM and also just fanned the flames more than any time in the prior 4 years, by declaring himself president. Banana republics everywhere endorse that message.


He even said he is going to court to get the vote counting stopped now even when all the votes haven't been counted yet.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
M564038
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:41 am

And he probably won’t either. What incredibly irresponsible behaviour he is showing!

dragon-wings wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Great speech of the President, he just claimed victory. Let the riots start...


But he didn't win yet.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1311
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:46 am

dragon-wings wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Great speech of the President, he just claimed victory. Let the riots start...


But he didn't win yet.

He didn’t but he is deliberately questioning the credibility of the counting process still in progress. The USA has definately lost the last bit of credibility...
 
Derico
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:49 am

dragon-wings wrote:
Derico wrote:
Well, right on cue, he acted like a PM and also just fanned the flames more than any time in the prior 4 years, by declaring himself president. Banana republics everywhere endorse that message.


He even said he is going to court to get the vote counting stopped now even when all the votes haven't been counted yet.


So now what will happen is, if he wins, the opposition will claim (even falsely) he must have done something to fix the voting to go his way for him to say that. And if he loses, of course his supporters will think it was fraudulent because he had said it was already won. Either way, I will go out to predict this will not be a good next few weeks for US society fabric and democratic institutions will be eroded.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
Sokes
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Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:49 am

How was counting done in earlier elections?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:06 am

Sokes wrote:
How was counting done in earlier elections?


Standard practice has been states have until basically the second week of December, when electors cast their votes. Final counts must be completed in roughly 2-3 weeks, practically speaking. Federal law requires states to make final determinations of vote counts at least six days before electors vote. The electoral votes are then opened in Congress the first week of January.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
bennett123
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:08 am

Don't really understand how a vote can be 'called' before all the votes have been counted.
 
marcelh
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:18 am

bennett123 wrote:
Don't really understand how a vote can be 'called' before all the votes have been counted.

Ask the President....
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4525
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:25 am

Normally I do not comment on foreign elections. But as a democratic person, I am shocked. The law of US states allows voting per mail under certain rules, and those mails were not counted yet. You just simply cannot do what he just did. Respect to democracy requires respect for the voting.

I was volunteerly helping in several german elections and also witnessed danish elections. Ensuring a fair, secret vote was always the case. Doubting such a process is beyond any democractic standards.
 
apodino
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:40 am

Trump with an absolutely stupid statement tonight, and I am embarrassed. Yes, he may still win and there is a good chance he does. But to make that statement he did from the White House today was disgusting, and even though Pence tried to save face, he couldn't do so.

I think WI is looking likely to stay Red, but lets wait for the vote to be counted. GA and NC look good for the GOP, but there is enough outstanding vote to make a difference. MI and PA are true toss up states, and the Maine 2nd race will play as well.

Who knows what happens. We can do the postmortem after all the votes are counted.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:41 am

Derico wrote:
dragon-wings wrote:
Derico wrote:
Well, right on cue, he acted like a PM and also just fanned the flames more than any time in the prior 4 years, by declaring himself president. Banana republics everywhere endorse that message.


He even said he is going to court to get the vote counting stopped now even when all the votes haven't been counted yet.


So now what will happen is, if he wins, the opposition will claim (even falsely) he must have done something to fix the voting to go his way for him to say that. And if he loses, of course his supporters will think it was fraudulent because he had said it was already won. Either way, I will go out to predict this will not be a good next few weeks for US society fabric and democratic institutions will be eroded.


That’s obviously the intent - the question is why? Is it purely sociopathic megalomania or something more?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
cpd
Posts: 6714
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:54 am

stl07 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Bidden should concede. It is over.

despite even FOX news basically saying he has it in the bag?


Maybe he meant bidon - as in the drink bottle you have on a bicycle?

I also agree, he should concede and the Democrats should offer to work with the Republicans to ensure Trump is leader for the rest of his life. Because they haven't a hope in hell of organising the proverbial chook raffle, let alone trying to win an election. Shambolic.

Since Trump announced victory, it's time for is people standing back and standing by to swing into action I suppose, because that victory call must have been the call to them to take action?
 
bennett123
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:58 am

Why do you concede before you have lost?.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:59 am

I've seen on French TV that 5 billion dollars have been spent on this campaign. On top of being a crazy amount, surely it means many people have been literally harassed left and right, on TV, phone, billboards, etc., no ? That must surely help someone make a choice...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:59 am

CNN exchange on Trump’s unbelievable comments tonight:

Jake Tapper: “Have you ever seen anything like this from a President?”

Ben Ginsberg: “No, not even close.”

Ginsberg was the Bush campaign’s counsel in Bush v. Gore in 2000.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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lugie
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:09 am

Extremely disappointing for Democrats so far.

Will be an absolute nail biter - right now it looks like Biden will take AZ and NV, moreover the NYT battleground needle (which was correct for FL and has Trump winning NC which I consider likely) has swung toward Biden in GA.

Assuming he takes those three, he would only need one out of WI, MI and PA to get to (WI) or above (the other two) 270.

I have serious doubts he can come back in PA, Trump is ahead by around 650k votes with around 1.4M still outstanding (although those will be mail-in votes from in/around Pittsburgh and Philly, so likely a lot more blue than the state overall). I do think he has a decent chance at Wisconsin, maybe even Michigan. But again, if he manages to clinch it somehow, this is embarrassingly close. Embarrassing for the Democratic party in their quest to nominate a strong opponent vs Trump and embarrassing to the American people - like, aren't you ashamed that someone like Trump is even standing a chance?

Case in point, his disgraceful comments about how he already won and how counting ballots should be stopped, which were not only contradicted right away by his own VP, but drew condemnation even at FOX.

Either way, I assume within about 2-3 hours, around noon here in Europe or 6am Eastern we might know more, that's the time frame provided by Wisconsin election officials for when to expect vote tallies from Milwaukee (which is currently only 45% counted)
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cpd
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:10 am

Derico wrote:
dragon-wings wrote:
Derico wrote:
Well, right on cue, he acted like a PM and also just fanned the flames more than any time in the prior 4 years, by declaring himself president. Banana republics everywhere endorse that message.


He even said he is going to court to get the vote counting stopped now even when all the votes haven't been counted yet.


So now what will happen is, if he wins, the opposition will claim (even falsely) he must have done something to fix the voting to go his way for him to say that. And if he loses, of course his supporters will think it was fraudulent because he had said it was already won. Either way, I will go out to predict this will not be a good next few weeks for US society fabric and democratic institutions will be eroded.


Having cities burning and mass-shootings might be what is needed to bring some sense back to the USA. You can't even sneeze without being called a socialist. It's ridiculous, no common sense at all.

If you don't like someones policy, rant loudly about it being socialism and everyone goes hiding under their beds in fear...

lugie wrote:
Case in point, his disgraceful comments about how he already won and how counting ballots should be stopped, which were not only contradicted right away by his own VP, but drew condemnation even at FOX.


Fox news people should be arrested and locked up for being unpatriotic. Don't they know they aren't supposed to question that - this is the real, correct truth form their leader.
Last edited by cpd on Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Derico
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:11 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Derico wrote:
dragon-wings wrote:

He even said he is going to court to get the vote counting stopped now even when all the votes haven't been counted yet.


So now what will happen is, if he wins, the opposition will claim (even falsely) he must have done something to fix the voting to go his way for him to say that. And if he loses, of course his supporters will think it was fraudulent because he had said it was already won. Either way, I will go out to predict this will not be a good next few weeks for US society fabric and democratic institutions will be eroded.


That’s obviously the intent - the question is why? Is it purely sociopathic megalomania or something more?


The ultimate irony, in my humble opinion, is that Republicans have for so many years made themselves as the party that will safeguard the traditions and ways of the US when in power, and to fight tooth and nail to stymy or slow down the changes Democrats want to institute, which they see as "radical" or anathema to "America", and as undoing US American values.

Yet in the last four years it has been their party leader who has introduced all kinds of Institution-eroding behavior that could be argued are "foreign" and radical" (questioning the voting process with no real hard proof, dismissing the legislative process, etc, as in institutionally weak democratic systems), it has been their party who has played "social warfare" like the one leftists play with class-warfare, by furthering existing divisions in the country by the words of the president time and time again, instead of unifying, further flinging incendiary material as it happens in ethnically fractured countries. It has been in fact the people who said they would protect the traditions from the radical opposition who have introduced a brand of politics and governing that resembles far more closely than ever before nations with very fragile systems.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
Redd
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:35 am

I think it really comes down to the left ignoring the fact that their woke utopia scared the hell out of a lot of people, and it ignored the working class (which it's supposed to represent). I personally find it quite funny how many people are so perplexed by a Trump victory (currently looking like a Trump victory), but this might help you understand. Literally all of my social circle, who hates Trump, were pretty much certain that a Biden victory is a pipe dream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5TVLEaqqdI
 
TheSonntag
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:40 am

@Redd: I tend to agree that the problem of the US system is that the Democrats tend to struggle getting really useful candidates, and that there is a distinctive difference between what media thinks is important, and what is important to blue collar people. We have the same in Germany where people living in expensive lofts in Hamburg and Berlin believe that they know what normal people need.

But - this is still no excuse for Trump . This guy is a disgrace for the US and totally incompetent.
 
DTVG
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:41 am

Trump is the president that Americans deserve.
 
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sebolino
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:49 am

DTVG wrote:
Trump is the president that Americans deserve.


Well you can say that for all democratic countries.
But in the case of the US it's unfortunately not true. A majority of Americans voted against him in 2016, but with this ridiculous voting system, the majority may lose.

For this 2020 election, I'm more than shocked to see that despite 4 years of lies and insults, people continue to vote for this clown.
Of course the economy was good before the pandemic, but 1) it was for a big part due to Obama 2) It comes at a great price: destruction of the environment, destruction of the relationship with allies, new relationships with more than suspect leaders, trade war started, huge division of the country, rise of racism, 200000+ deaths due to the worst pandemic management imaginable.

What a disappointment !
 
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Aesma
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:52 am

Redd, what you call the "woke utopia" is a small part of the Dems nowhere near power. Meanwhile that's the excuse to vote for a dumpster fire of a president ? "Deplorables" seems ever more so fitting.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
cpd
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:56 am

Aesma wrote:
Redd, what you call the "woke utopia" is a small part of the Dems nowhere near power. Meanwhile that's the excuse to vote for a dumpster fire of a president ? "Deplorables" seems ever more so fitting.


You just have a different 'woke utopia' instead, the version from the right.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:13 am

I bet gun manufacturers are happy right now.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Zeppi
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:56 am

sebolino wrote:
For this 2020 election, I'm more than shocked to see that despite 4 years of lies and insults, people continue to vote for this clown.


It really just shows you the intellect and level of education of the average US citizen/voter, having travelled across the US extensively I can't really say im surprised at this outcome at all.
Looking at the buildup of this and the general increase of "dumbing down" the population, or those receptive to it to be fair, this is just another nail in the coffin. The USA have been on the decline since the great deeds of WW2, everything they touched after that starting with Korea just ended in a clusterfuck of ever greater proportions.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:35 am

It looks like Trump will win re-election, the Republicans hold control of the Senate, the House will still be in Democratic control. The worst of all fates.

If the final counts lead to Biden winning by margins narrower than Trump in 2016, they will be challenged by Trump. Trump will have the money, the grass roots support of his 'Red Hats', Republican control in parts of the governments of the close states, a Supreme court in his favor, that will mean Trump will win in the EC count. If somehow Biden were to run the table and win by the EC vote, he will face a badly divided nation, a divided government, unlikely to get any of his desired cabinet members.

With Trump winning, Covid-19 will be totally out of control with maybe 500,000 dead by next June, millions homeless and likely massive protests.The rich will get richer, corporations finalizing their coup of controlling government, our health care get much worse, families destroyed over politics and Trump will be the target of assassination.

Pre-election polls are now worthless. Non-White and immigrant Americans are in deep danger for their lives. We may see an end to legal abortion, GLTBQ, voting, racial and gender civil rights reversed, BLM and anti-racism protests fully suppressed, an end to 'affirmative action' in jobs and government contracts, a new 'Jim Crow' era, and too soon our country (and world) destroyed by Global Warming - Climate Change Crises.

I am 66 years old, I fear the remaining years of my life will be hell.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:36 am

apodino wrote:
Trump with an absolutely stupid statement tonight, and I am embarrassed. Yes, he may still win and there is a good chance he does. But to make that statement he did from the White House today was disgusting, and even though Pence tried to save face, he couldn't do so.

I think WI is looking likely to stay Red, but lets wait for the vote to be counted. GA and NC look good for the GOP, but there is enough outstanding vote to make a difference. MI and PA are true toss up states, and the Maine 2nd race will play as well.

Who knows what happens. We can do the postmortem after all the votes are counted.


It's absolutely ridiculous. Can't help but notice this morning there are hardly any prominent GOP figures assailing the unbelievable conduct from POTUS. Lots of independents and former GOP criticizing, but not the current RNC bloc.

Justin Amash's comment pretty much sums up my reaction:

That was one of the most dishonest and despotic speeches ever given by a president of the United States.

https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/ ... 54946?s=20
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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lugie
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:45 am

Aaron747 wrote:
apodino wrote:
Trump with an absolutely stupid statement tonight, and I am embarrassed. Yes, he may still win and there is a good chance he does. But to make that statement he did from the White House today was disgusting, and even though Pence tried to save face, he couldn't do so.

I think WI is looking likely to stay Red, but lets wait for the vote to be counted. GA and NC look good for the GOP, but there is enough outstanding vote to make a difference. MI and PA are true toss up states, and the Maine 2nd race will play as well.

Who knows what happens. We can do the postmortem after all the votes are counted.


It's absolutely ridiculous. Can't help but notice this morning there are hardly any prominent GOP figures assailing the unbelievable conduct from POTUS. Lots of independents and former GOP criticizing, but not the current RNC bloc.

Justin Amash's comment pretty much sums up my reaction:

That was one of the most dishonest and despotic speeches ever given by a president of the United States.

https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/ ... 54946?s=20



Trump knows what's coming, that's why he's working so hard to discredit it.

Just now on the NYT's election page Michigan has swung almost 4 Points toward Biden, from Trump+5 to Trump+1.4 with 17% of the vote remaining to be counted, the vast majority of which in and around Detroit, Lansing, and Grand Rapids.

He's already lost his "grip" (which, to be clear, HE NEVER HAD) on Wisconsin.

I'm doubtful Biden can win Pennsylvania, as Trump's early lead is considerable bigger there than in MI or WI but he might not end up needing it, as long as his leads in AZ and NV hold up, MI and WI alone would carry him to 270.

In addition, there's still the chance that GA might end up blue with a big number of uncounted votes remaining in metro Atlanta (both the suburbs and the city proper) and around Macon and Savannah.

Even NC isn't technically off the table yet but I fear the remaining ballots (mostly absentee and early mail ballots, as well as a few in person votes from deep blue Orange and blue Forsyth counties) will not be enough to make up Trump's +1.4 here (as these ballots only amount to around 5% of the overall vote)
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rfields5421
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:56 am

bennett123 wrote:
Don't really understand how a vote can be 'called' before all the votes have been counted.


Most states and even local elections are not 'official' for several days to weeks after the election. There are delays built into the laws to allow for recounts and other things.

Calling a state is simply a prediction of what the final result will be. There is a lot of high level math behind it, and analysis behind a news organization or a politician calling an election winner. Usually they are right. When they make such a prediction.

For example, they look at the votes reported on a county by county basis, maybe even a precinct basis. And example is the heavily hispanic counties along the south Texas border near the Gulf of Mexico. In 2016 Hillary Clinton carried those counties with almost 70% of the vote. As of midnight last night, the majority of precincts had reported their ballot totals and Biden was winning with about 55% of the vote. That is several tens of thousands of votes the Biden did not get that Clinton did get. A clear indicator that the increased number of people voting in the 2020 election was not gaining enough additional votes to offset the GOP bias of the state.

bennett123 wrote:
Why do you concede before you have lost?.


A concession in an election is simply a good will gesture between the projected loser and the projected winner. A concession statement or speech is not a legal part of the voting process. It does not stop the vote counting, or the defined by law process of certifying the election process.

Most politicians have enough experience and people working with them to know when the election is slipping away and they cannot defeat the opponent.

==================

Also always remember we have 51 different systems of counting votes, 51 different sets of deadlines, etc. Every state is different. What is proper procedure in one state is not proper procedure in another.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
dragon-wings
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:04 pm

ltbewr wrote:
It looks like Trump will win re-election, the Republicans hold control of the Senate, the House will still be in Democratic control. The worst of all fates.

If the final counts lead to Biden winning by margins narrower than Trump in 2016, they will be challenged by Trump. Trump will have the money, the grass roots support of his 'Red Hats', Republican control in parts of the governments of the close states, a Supreme court in his favor, that will mean Trump will win in the EC count. If somehow Biden were to run the table and win by the EC vote, he will face a badly divided nation, a divided government, unlikely to get any of his desired cabinet members.

With Trump winning, Covid-19 will be totally out of control with maybe 500,000 dead by next June, millions homeless and likely massive protests.The rich will get richer, corporations finalizing their coup of controlling government, our health care get much worse, families destroyed over politics and Trump will be the target of assassination.

Pre-election polls are now worthless. Non-White and immigrant Americans are in deep danger for their lives. We may see an end to legal abortion, GLTBQ, voting, racial and gender civil rights reversed, BLM and anti-racism protests fully suppressed, an end to 'affirmative action' in jobs and government contracts, a new 'Jim Crow' era, and too soon our country (and world) destroyed by Global Warming - Climate Change Crises.

I am 66 years old, I fear the remaining years of my life will be hell.


I am very nervous of a Trump win. If Trump wins and he is successful of getting rid of Obama Care through the SC I would be one to loose my health insurance.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
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Aesma
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:19 pm

AOC 2024, then ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:29 pm

Aesma wrote:
AOC 2024, then ?

Can you imagine the conflict in the dirty old white man vote...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Image
 
agill
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:39 pm

The race really have gotten tighter and tighter. I wonder how long before we have a result.I thought Biden was toast when I looked at the election map this morning but now he seems to have a pretty decent chance to take this.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:40 pm

Wow just woke up
Wisconsin is turning Blue *
Suddenly Michigan is really close with a lot of votes outstanding,
The ballots are mattering

Pennsylvania still has many outstanding votes.

Going to be close,.

And Georgia is not done either.

//Edit Michigan should know by the end of the day. 2/3 of Michigan voters voted absentee. it really looks like the cities are outstanding, and looks likely for Biden to take it.
Last edited by casinterest on Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
winginit
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:43 pm

casinterest wrote:
Wow just woke up
Wisconsin is turning Blue *
Suddenly Michigan is really close with a lot of votes outstanding,
The ballots are mattering

Pennsylvania still has many outstanding votes.

Going to be close,.

And Georgia is not done either.


It’s comical just how poorly so many posts in this thread from even a few hours ago are holding up.

Joe Biden is going to win this election, and the only outstanding item at this point appears to be whether it will be by a little (if he loses PA) or by the same margin as Trump won in 2016 (if he wins PA+GA).

If you would have told me only a few months ago that Biden would be trending well in WI/MI/PA, that AZ would be flipped, and that GA would be in play I would have been absolutely ecstatic. The expectations over the past few weeks got away from us Democrats this year.

Polls fell flat on their faces, but worth pointing out that betting odds over the past week seem to have nailed almost every single state.
Last edited by winginit on Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:48 pm

ltbewr wrote:
It looks like Trump will win re-election, the Republicans hold control of the Senate, the House will still be in Democratic control. The worst of all fates.

If the final counts lead to Biden winning by margins narrower than Trump in 2016, they will be challenged by Trump. Trump will have the money, the grass roots support of his 'Red Hats', Republican control in parts of the governments of the close states, a Supreme court in his favor, that will mean Trump will win in the EC count. If somehow Biden were to run the table and win by the EC vote, he will face a badly divided nation, a divided government, unlikely to get any of his desired cabinet members.

With Trump winning, Covid-19 will be totally out of control with maybe 500,000 dead by next June, millions homeless and likely massive protests.The rich will get richer, corporations finalizing their coup of controlling government, our health care get much worse, families destroyed over politics and Trump will be the target of assassination.

Pre-election polls are now worthless. Non-White and immigrant Americans are in deep danger for their lives. We may see an end to legal abortion, GLTBQ, voting, racial and gender civil rights reversed, BLM and anti-racism protests fully suppressed, an end to 'affirmative action' in jobs and government contracts, a new 'Jim Crow' era, and too soon our country (and world) destroyed by Global Warming - Climate Change Crises.

I am 66 years old, I fear the remaining years of my life will be hell.


I would not be so sure about SCOTUS ruling in favor of a direct challenge to vote counting - that would be tantamount to large scale disenfranchisement. I can't imagine the justices wanting to sign onto that, especially without clear evidence of fraud. GOP election lawyer Ben Ginsberg said basically same last night after Trump's speech.
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c933103
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:48 pm

Regardless of who ultimately end up winning, one thing for sure is that the poll didn't really improved
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casinterest
Posts: 13064
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:49 pm

winginit wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Wow just woke up
Wisconsin is turning Blue *
Suddenly Michigan is really close with a lot of votes outstanding,
The ballots are mattering

Pennsylvania still has many outstanding votes.

Going to be close,.

And Georgia is not done either.


It’s comical just how poorly so many posts in this thread from even a few hours ago are holding up.

Joe Biden is going to win this election, and the only outstanding item at this point appears to be whether it will be by a little (if he loses PA) or by the same margin as Trump won in 2016 (if he wins PA+GA).

If you would have told me only a few months ago that Biden would be trending well in WI/MI/PA, that AZ would be flipped, and that GA would be in play I would have been absolutely ecstatic. The expectations over the past few weeks got away from us Democrats this year.


I am thrilled with NC response., Trump takes it, but it was very close . I think at the end of the day, the RNC and DNC need to start rethinking some future platform items.

Texas is win for the GOP, but the trend is continuing to whittle away the GOP margins.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13064
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:50 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
It looks like Trump will win re-election, the Republicans hold control of the Senate, the House will still be in Democratic control. The worst of all fates.

If the final counts lead to Biden winning by margins narrower than Trump in 2016, they will be challenged by Trump. Trump will have the money, the grass roots support of his 'Red Hats', Republican control in parts of the governments of the close states, a Supreme court in his favor, that will mean Trump will win in the EC count. If somehow Biden were to run the table and win by the EC vote, he will face a badly divided nation, a divided government, unlikely to get any of his desired cabinet members.

With Trump winning, Covid-19 will be totally out of control with maybe 500,000 dead by next June, millions homeless and likely massive protests.The rich will get richer, corporations finalizing their coup of controlling government, our health care get much worse, families destroyed over politics and Trump will be the target of assassination.

Pre-election polls are now worthless. Non-White and immigrant Americans are in deep danger for their lives. We may see an end to legal abortion, GLTBQ, voting, racial and gender civil rights reversed, BLM and anti-racism protests fully suppressed, an end to 'affirmative action' in jobs and government contracts, a new 'Jim Crow' era, and too soon our country (and world) destroyed by Global Warming - Climate Change Crises.

I am 66 years old, I fear the remaining years of my life will be hell.


I would not be so sure about SCOTUS ruling in favor of a direct challenge to vote counting - that would be tantamount to large scale disenfranchisement. I can't imagine the justices wanting to sign onto that, especially without clear evidence of fraud. GOP election lawyer Ben Ginsberg said basically same last night after Trump's speech.


Trump continues to delegitimize himself every day. Especially with last nights quotes.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Redd
Posts: 1359
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:55 pm

TheSonntag wrote:
@Redd: I tend to agree that the problem of the US system is that the Democrats tend to struggle getting really useful candidates, and that there is a distinctive difference between what media thinks is important, and what is important to blue collar people. We have the same in Germany where people living in expensive lofts in Hamburg and Berlin believe that they know what normal people need.

But - this is still no excuse for Trump . This guy is a disgrace for the US and totally incompetent.


I think a lot of what makes people think he's a disgrace was media pushing anti-Trump messages 24h/7. Don't get me wrong, I still don't like him, but I've been pretty sure the outcome of the election is going to swing this way because the liberals went way into the deep end, and a lot of people were just scared to oppose the crazy fringe left for fear of being cancelled.

Same happened in Poland where I live, but here we REALLY have a disgusting disgraceful government. But once again, the left did it to themselves. Now we all have to suffer for it.
 
Redd
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:58 pm

casinterest wrote:

Texas is win for the GOP, but the trend is continuing to whittle away the GOP margins.



24 hours ago the polls were predicting (propagating) a landslide victory for Biden. Even if Trump loses, this should be a bit of a wake-up call for Americans.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:07 pm

apodino wrote:
Trump with an absolutely stupid statement tonight, and I am embarrassed. Yes, he may still win and there is a good chance he does. But to make that statement he did from the White House today was disgusting, and even though Pence tried to save face, he couldn't do so.

I think WI is looking likely to stay Red, but lets wait for the vote to be counted. GA and NC look good for the GOP, but there is enough outstanding vote to make a difference. MI and PA are true toss up states, and the Maine 2nd race will play as well.

Who knows what happens. We can do the postmortem after all the votes are counted.


Agreed, terrible statement.

He deserves to lose. I think WI is predicted to be blue now. Michigan also. I think the betting markets have Trump at about a 25% chance now.

My earlier statement that Trump had "walked away with it" was incorrect. I am actually pleased that Democrats correctly called this issue for weeks, saying all the votes must be counted. I certainly agree with that.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14063
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:08 pm

winginit wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Wow just woke up
Wisconsin is turning Blue *
Suddenly Michigan is really close with a lot of votes outstanding,
The ballots are mattering

Pennsylvania still has many outstanding votes.

Going to be close,.

And Georgia is not done either.


It’s comical just how poorly so many posts in this thread from even a few hours ago are holding up.

Joe Biden is going to win this election, and the only outstanding item at this point appears to be whether it will be by a little (if he loses PA) or by the same margin as Trump won in 2016 (if he wins PA+GA).

If you would have told me only a few months ago that Biden would be trending well in WI/MI/PA, that AZ would be flipped, and that GA would be in play I would have been absolutely ecstatic. The expectations over the past few weeks got away from us Democrats this year.

Polls fell flat on their faces, but worth pointing out that betting odds over the past week seem to have nailed almost every single state.


About polls, and whatever the results end up to be, 160 millions ballots have been cast vs 137 millions in 2016. That's a gigantic difference that would make any prediction much more difficult.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14063
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:12 pm

Redd wrote:
TheSonntag wrote:
@Redd: I tend to agree that the problem of the US system is that the Democrats tend to struggle getting really useful candidates, and that there is a distinctive difference between what media thinks is important, and what is important to blue collar people. We have the same in Germany where people living in expensive lofts in Hamburg and Berlin believe that they know what normal people need.

But - this is still no excuse for Trump . This guy is a disgrace for the US and totally incompetent.


I think a lot of what makes people think he's a disgrace was media pushing anti-Trump messages 24h/7. Don't get me wrong, I still don't like him, but I've been pretty sure the outcome of the election is going to swing this way because the liberals went way into the deep end, and a lot of people were just scared to oppose the crazy fringe left for fear of being cancelled.

Same happened in Poland where I live, but here we REALLY have a disgusting disgraceful government. But once again, the left did it to themselves. Now we all have to suffer for it.


I'm sorry but you can't equate the far right and far left. The far left want utopian things yes, but positive things. Healthcare for all, education for all, equal chances, non discrimination. The far right wants the opposite of all these things. Sure the left must be better at messaging, but that doesn't excuse people for voting far right. Do/did we excuse the Germans for electing and supporting Hitler ? They don't even excuse themselves of having done it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
airtechy
Posts: 808
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:35 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:13 pm

To be honest, I am now more worried about Nevada. Close and they won't release any more vote counts until Thursday.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13064
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:13 pm

Redd wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Texas is win for the GOP, but the trend is continuing to whittle away the GOP margins.



24 hours ago the polls were predicting (propagating) a landslide victory for Biden. Even if Trump loses, this should be a bit of a wake-up call for Americans.



No, a landslide was not predicted. It was within the margin of Error,
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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c933103
Posts: 5278
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:14 pm

Aesma wrote:
winginit wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Wow just woke up
Wisconsin is turning Blue *
Suddenly Michigan is really close with a lot of votes outstanding,
The ballots are mattering

Pennsylvania still has many outstanding votes.

Going to be close,.

And Georgia is not done either.


It’s comical just how poorly so many posts in this thread from even a few hours ago are holding up.

Joe Biden is going to win this election, and the only outstanding item at this point appears to be whether it will be by a little (if he loses PA) or by the same margin as Trump won in 2016 (if he wins PA+GA).

If you would have told me only a few months ago that Biden would be trending well in WI/MI/PA, that AZ would be flipped, and that GA would be in play I would have been absolutely ecstatic. The expectations over the past few weeks got away from us Democrats this year.

Polls fell flat on their faces, but worth pointing out that betting odds over the past week seem to have nailed almost every single state.


About polls, and whatever the results end up to be, 160 millions ballots have been cast vs 137 millions in 2016. That's a gigantic difference that would make any prediction much more difficult.

The high turnout was also predicted ti be in Biden's favor.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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