Aaron747 wrote:

The levels of crazy the sycophants are reaching is incredible, even for what we have seen of them the last couple years. Just totally wild, silly claims without evidence.

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status ... 31233?s=20

I saw that live and mentioned it. For anyone who still think this is not a totally decadent Cult of Personality syndrome.

It's crazy that so many Latinos in the US support Trump.

Oops, caught out burning fake ballots and then posting fake news:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/04/busi ... index.html

IceCream wrote:

It's crazy that so many Latinos in the US support Trump.

The problem is the term socialism is so overused and to criticise anything someone doesn't agree with, nobody knows what it really is.

In my country we have a public health care system - socialism is what it would be called in the USA. However it doesn't mean I have to make trips to statues of Scott Morrison and pay tribute or prove my loyalty to the cause, nor do we have his people claiming he was born on some sacred mountain.

hkg82 wrote:

Trump’s lead in PA has narrowed to just +3, per NY Times. Do we know, as of now, how many votes are still yet to be tallied in PA?

I believe only around 12% is left to be counted.

cpd wrote:

Oops, caught out burning fake ballots and then posting fake news:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/04/busi ... index.html

IceCream wrote:

It's crazy that so many Latinos in the US support Trump.

The problem is the term socialism is so overused and to criticize anything someone doesn't agree with, nobody knows what it really is.

In my country we have a public health care system - socialism is what it would be called in the USA. However it doesn't mean I have to make trips to statues of Scott Morrison and pay tribute or prove my loyalty to the cause, nor do we have his people claiming he was born on some sacred mountain.

Yeah, same in my country. I feel like there's so much fear-mongering stemming from comparing Communism and Socialism when really they are two very separate things.

cpd wrote:

Oops, caught out burning fake ballots and then posting fake news:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/04/busi ... index.html

IceCream wrote:

It's crazy that so many Latinos in the US support Trump.

The problem is the term socialism is so overused and to criticise anything someone doesn't agree with, nobody knows what it really is.

In my country we have a public health care system - socialism is what it would be called in the USA. However it doesn't mean I have to make trips to statues of Scott Morrison and pay tribute or prove my loyalty to the cause, nor do we have his people claiming he was born on some sacred mountain.

Actually to be fair, the Biden campaign essentially tossed the Latino vote and made no serious attempts to reach out even though for months they weren't polling well with Latinos. The socialism thing certainly may have played a role with Cuban Americans but it certainly doesn't explain the lower numbers elsewhere such as in Texas or even with African American voters.

Instead they went full for the moderate and blue collar white vote which may have paid off but at the cost of eroding a strong Democratic voting block. We'll just have to see in the future how that plays out.

Aaron747 wrote:

The levels of crazy the sycophants are reaching is incredible, even for what we have seen of them the last couple years. Just totally wild, silly claims without evidence.

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status ... 31233?s=20

What in holy hell has happened with that guy? He used to be a pretty revered and somewhat moderate conservative figure.

Trump’s lead in PA started this morning ~600k. As of this post, it is down to ~195k.
Biden is going to win PA.

flyguy89 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

The levels of crazy the sycophants are reaching is incredible, even for what we have seen of them the last couple years. Just totally wild, silly claims without evidence.

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status ... 31233?s=20

What in holy hell has happened with that guy? He used to be a pretty revered and somewhat moderate conservative figure.

How much are they paying him? Maybe he's in it simply for the money and nothing else. After it is all over and done with he ends up looking pretty stupid.

ArcticSEA wrote:

Trump’s lead in PA started this morning ~600k. As of this post, it is down to ~195k.
Biden is going to win PA.

But it won’t be legit according to the WH because Philly, Allegheny, Montgomery and Bucks counties are cheaters in the tank for Joe

I don't think Biden can overtake Trump in PA, but Nevada should be his and I think Joe can come back to win GA.

Of course anything is still possible, this is 2020 after all!!

Trump lead in GA now under 30k votes.

There will recounts automatically depending on the margin of difference. December 14th is 40 days away. And Jan. 6th is 63 days away from today. And then, the nation will officially know who won the election after the Electoral Count is completed by Congress at the earliest, on Jan. 6, 2021.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act

https://www.statutesandstories.com/blog ... n-of-1876/

Patience

Here's some of the ACT, note the first paragraph IS one sentence...

If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate, those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section two of this act to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made . . . ; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section two of this act, is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its laws; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses,acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State.

But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes,then,and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the Executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted.

hkg82 wrote:

I don't think Biden can overtake Trump in PA, but Nevada should be his and I think Joe can come back to win GA.

Of course anything is still possible, this is 2020 after all!!

The bulk of PA’s uncounted is Philadelphia County, only 70% tallied as I write this. It would be tight. But it’s possible.

DL717 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

winginit wrote:

Ah - so slow, accurate counting is unfair now? Hot take.

It was always known that Nevada would have to count mail in ballots post marked on or before the 3rd but received on the 4th or later. Don’t you live in Nevada? Were you unaware?

Very slow. You can't update at the day goes? Sounds fishy to me.

Dude. Seriously. It’s almost over. Time to come together and move on.

Yup. Finally, after four years of seeing a person who 'Blames Rest Of The World' for his mistakes, we will get to see someone in power that 'Shoulders All The Responsibilities Properly'.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Patience

Tell that to your deranged cult leader.

Trump to his supporters: don't mail in your ballot, it's fraud!
Also, Trump: why are none of the mail in ballots for me?

well, kick my ass! Nikv69! Glad you started this thread.

Gonna be a very interesting next few days... Really do hope to see people come together after such division....

After the events and comments of the last 24 hours, Rick Santorum is still trying to convince himself DJT loves his country and will do the right thing:

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/13 ... 59425?s=21

Smdh.

IceCream wrote:

It's crazy that so many Latinos in the US support Trump.

Yes, hard to believe that defunding the police, court packing and transgender bathrooms didn't appeal to them. Major mystery.

FreequentFlier wrote:

IceCream wrote:

It's crazy that so many Latinos in the US support Trump.

Yes, hard to believe that defunding the police, court packing and transgender bathrooms didn't appeal to them. Major mystery.

Who advocated for specific bathrooms for trans people? Must've missed that. Thought they were advocating using the bathroom of their gender?

bgm wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

IceCream wrote:

It's crazy that so many Latinos in the US support Trump.

Yes, hard to believe that defunding the police, court packing and transgender bathrooms didn't appeal to them. Major mystery.

Who advocated for specific bathrooms for trans people? Must've missed that. Thought they were advocating using the bathroom of their gender?

Nobody leading a major campaign was advocating defunding police either, but who’s counting?

luckyone wrote:

hkg82 wrote:

I don't think Biden can overtake Trump in PA, but Nevada should be his and I think Joe can come back to win GA.

Of course anything is still possible, this is 2020 after all!!

The bulk of PA’s uncounted is Philadelphia County, only 70% tallied as I write this. It would be tight. But it’s possible.

A lot is possible with that remaining 20+ odd outstanding ballots translating into approximately 900,000 ballots - from Philadelphia area counties.

Trumps Vote total lead has gone from 600K to a lead of 190,00K in 12 hours, that 900,000 will not be an even split , not even close to one.

luckyone wrote:

hkg82 wrote:

I don't think Biden can overtake Trump in PA, but Nevada should be his and I think Joe can come back to win GA.

Of course anything is still possible, this is 2020 after all!!

The bulk of PA’s uncounted is Philadelphia County, only 70% tallied as I write this. It would be tight. But it’s possible.

Biden is likely to win PA given the outstanding vote remaining. Trump might actually win AZ given the outstanding vote there.

Aaron747 wrote:

bgm wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

Yes, hard to believe that defunding the police, court packing and transgender bathrooms didn't appeal to them. Major mystery.

Who advocated for specific bathrooms for trans people? Must've missed that. Thought they were advocating using the bathroom of their gender?

Nobody leading a major campaign was advocating defunding police either, but who’s counting?

You're right, we really have no idea where working and middle class Hispanics got the message that the left wanted to defund the police. Total mystery.

FreequentFlier wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

bgm wrote:

Who advocated for specific bathrooms for trans people? Must've missed that. Thought they were advocating using the bathroom of their gender?

Nobody leading a major campaign was advocating defunding police either, but who’s counting?

You're right, we really have no idea where working and middle class Hispanics got the message that the left wanted to defund the police. Total mystery.

Lies in ads and by radio/Fox News evening hosts, mostly.

And if the GOP would follow Ronald Reagan and Bush 1 and Bush 2 efforts to find a reasonable compromise on immigration, the GOP would never lose a national election.

Both parties cater to fringe groups and ignore most of the people in the country.

And both waste too much time telling us what to fear, and not working to eliminate the cause of the fear.

rfields5421 wrote:

And if the GOP would follow Ronald Reagan and Bush 1 and Bush 2 efforts to find a reasonable compromise on immigration, the GOP would never lose a national election.

Both parties cater to fringe groups and ignore most of the people in the country.

And both waste too much time telling us what to fear, and not working to eliminate the cause of the fear.

I generally agree. With that said, what people fail to realize, including the vast majority of our "elites", is that win or lose, Donald Trump is going to win the 2nd most votes in US history today. He's going to win even more votes than Barack Obama did en route to his landslide win in 2008 over John McCain.

A curious person might ask why or how the hell that happened. Our self styled elites don't even bother. They're too busy defunding the police or outsourcing jobs in other people's neighborhoods - neighborhoods they will never actually visit or even care to learn about.

rfields5421 wrote:

And if the GOP would follow Ronald Reagan and Bush 1 and Bush 2 efforts to find a reasonable compromise on immigration, the GOP would never lose a national election.

Both parties cater to fringe groups and ignore most of the people in the country.

And both waste too much time telling us what to fear, and not working to eliminate the cause of the fear.

I feel that it is important to note that GOP presidential candidates have only come out ahead in the vote total in 2004 of 2020, 2016, 2012, 2008, 2004, 2000, 1996, 1992. If reliably winning the majority of voters is catering to the fringe, I'm not sure what centrism would be.

ssteve wrote:

I'm not sure what centrism would be.

There are a lot of people with reasonable 'centrist' views. But they no longer have centrist candidates to vote for.

McCain was close, Dole, even Romney trended that way.

All got hurt by the attacks from within the GOP.

Trump's 2016 primary run is the type of scorched earth demonization of the other party candidates.

It is my strong belief that the vote for most people in the United States is which of the two is the lesser evil. Rather than votes for a candidate, especially in the last two elections.

FreequentFlier wrote:

rfields5421 wrote:

And if the GOP would follow Ronald Reagan and Bush 1 and Bush 2 efforts to find a reasonable compromise on immigration, the GOP would never lose a national election.

Both parties cater to fringe groups and ignore most of the people in the country.

And both waste too much time telling us what to fear, and not working to eliminate the cause of the fear.

I generally agree. With that said, what people fail to realize, including the vast majority of our "elites", is that win or lose, Donald Trump is going to win the 2nd most votes in US history today. He's going to win even more votes than Barack Obama did en route to his landslide win in 2008 over John McCain.

A curious person might ask why or how the hell that happened. Our self styled elites don't even bother. They're too busy defunding the police or outsourcing jobs in other people's neighborhoods - neighborhoods they will never actually visit or even care to learn about.

This is what I’ll never understand in a million years - Donald Trump is the very definition of the American “elite”. He lives, breathes, personifies and practices the very same despicable qualities that all of his voters profess to be voting against. Every single act, word, tweet, action, draft dodge, tax dodge, pussy grab, whore payoff, lawyer up, dog whistle, golf game, gold tower address...every fiber of his existence literally screams out “I don’t give a shit about anyone in this planet except ME”. But for a few thousand dollars in tax savings 50m Americans said the same damn thing about themselves. Even if Joe Biden wins this election Trump has successfully exposed the truth about this country, we are a nation exactly half full of people that turned a blind eye to the most morally repugnant human being to ever hold public office in this country. Not only that, they cherished it. That is a searing condemnation of the United States. This is the saddest moment of my life as an American that was once proud of his country.

FreequentFlier wrote:

rfields5421 wrote:

And if the GOP would follow Ronald Reagan and Bush 1 and Bush 2 efforts to find a reasonable compromise on immigration, the GOP would never lose a national election.

Both parties cater to fringe groups and ignore most of the people in the country.

And both waste too much time telling us what to fear, and not working to eliminate the cause of the fear.

I generally agree. With that said, what people fail to realize, including the vast majority of our "elites", is that win or lose, Donald Trump is going to win the 2nd most votes in US history today. He's going to win even more votes than Barack Obama did en route to his landslide win in 2008 over John McCain.

A curious person might ask why or how the hell that happened. Our self styled elites don't even bother. They're too busy defunding the police or outsourcing jobs in other people's neighborhoods - neighborhoods they will never actually visit or even care to learn about.

A curious person might wonder why, when controlling the reins of power in the country, republican voters still seem to rage about... the people controlling the reins of power in the country. The playing field is tilted your way, the ref is on the take, you're playing at home... and you whine because you can't win every game.

Trump is a moron. Covid was a yuuuge gift to his reelection chances. All he had to do was let the experts be experts, be presidential, and make a few speeches about shared sacrifice. He just lost to a guy whose only strategy was to look slightly more concerned with the country and to have a pulse. Trump is probably thrilled that he doesn't have to play president any longer and can go back to golf and white power rallies.

wingman wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

rfields5421 wrote:

And if the GOP would follow Ronald Reagan and Bush 1 and Bush 2 efforts to find a reasonable compromise on immigration, the GOP would never lose a national election.

Both parties cater to fringe groups and ignore most of the people in the country.

And both waste too much time telling us what to fear, and not working to eliminate the cause of the fear.

I generally agree. With that said, what people fail to realize, including the vast majority of our "elites", is that win or lose, Donald Trump is going to win the 2nd most votes in US history today. He's going to win even more votes than Barack Obama did en route to his landslide win in 2008 over John McCain.

A curious person might ask why or how the hell that happened. Our self styled elites don't even bother. They're too busy defunding the police or outsourcing jobs in other people's neighborhoods - neighborhoods they will never actually visit or even care to learn about.

This is what I’ll never understand in a million years - Donald Trump is the very definition of the American “elite”. He lives, breathes, personifies and practices the very same despicable qualities that all of his voters profess to be voting against. Every single act, word, tweet, action, draft dodge, tax dodge, pussy grab, whore payoff, lawyer up, dog whistle, golf game, gold tower address...every fiber of his existence literally screams out “I don’t give a shit about anyone in this planet except ME”. But for a few thousand dollars in tax savings 50m Americans said the same damn thing about themselves. Even if Joe Biden wins this election Trump has successfully exposed the truth about this country, we are a nation exactly half full of people that turned a blind eye to the most morally repugnant human being to ever hold public office in this country. Not only that, they cherished it. That is a searing condemnation of the United States. This is the saddest moment of my life as an American that was once proud of his country.

This has always shocked me about Trump supporters. You lean right politically? No problem. I'm honestly shocked the right wasn't more disgusted with this blatant scumbag in office. He's a truly disgusting human being and makes no attempt to hide it. You'd have to have a very dim moral compass to be blind to it. Politics aside, you're either blissfully ignorant or disgusting like Donald if you can't see it.

I really don't get how his crowd is also the proud to be an American crowd....... Yeah so take some pride in being an American and get this prick out of office. No better way to MAGA than to get Donald out of office. We need a leader - Trump is HORRIBLE at leading. Not particularly excited for Biden either but I'm looking forward to having a NORMAL amount of dissatisfaction with politics.

rfields5421 wrote:

ssteve wrote:

I'm not sure what centrism would be.

There are a lot of people with reasonable 'centrist' views. But they no longer have centrist candidates to vote for.

McCain was close, Dole, even Romney trended that way.

They are all Senators who basically vote with their party with few exceptions.

*Exactly* the same can be said about Kerry, Gore, Hillary. And that's why 2 of the 3 won the popular vote... straight outta the mainstream.

It's also worth noting that you're lauding McCain and Romney for the few occasions that they... moved left. Where's that put your "center?" No one lauds Kerry and Hillary for voting for the Iraq War.

rfields5421 wrote:

ssteve wrote:

I'm not sure what centrism would be.

There are a lot of people with reasonable 'centrist' views. But they no longer have centrist candidates to vote for.

McCain was close, Dole, even Romney trended that way.

All got hurt by the attacks from within the GOP.

Trump's 2016 primary run is the type of scorched earth demonization of the other party candidates.

It is my strong belief that the vote for most people in the United States is which of the two is the lesser evil. Rather than votes for a candidate, especially in the last two elections.

I'm one of those silent centrist types, my views aren't captured by polling companies (I tell them to get lost), I don't have a big news network and big websites to push for my views, and the governing elites (which are all from the right in my case) don't represent me, they represent their own privileged elite groups. I work hard, don't make a fuss or complain about anything and all I see is the elites from the right (all across the world) pushing their thought control.

No centre aligned government could ever win because they won't have the backing of the powerful elite right wing media groups.

wingman wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

rfields5421 wrote:

And if the GOP would follow Ronald Reagan and Bush 1 and Bush 2 efforts to find a reasonable compromise on immigration, the GOP would never lose a national election.

Both parties cater to fringe groups and ignore most of the people in the country.

And both waste too much time telling us what to fear, and not working to eliminate the cause of the fear.

I generally agree. With that said, what people fail to realize, including the vast majority of our "elites", is that win or lose, Donald Trump is going to win the 2nd most votes in US history today. He's going to win even more votes than Barack Obama did en route to his landslide win in 2008 over John McCain.

A curious person might ask why or how the hell that happened. Our self styled elites don't even bother. They're too busy defunding the police or outsourcing jobs in other people's neighborhoods - neighborhoods they will never actually visit or even care to learn about.

This is what I’ll never understand in a million years - Donald Trump is the very definition of the American “elite”. He lives, breathes, personifies and practices the very same despicable qualities that all of his voters profess to be voting against. Every single act, word, tweet, action, draft dodge, tax dodge, pussy grab, whore payoff, lawyer up, dog whistle, golf game, gold tower address...every fiber of his existence literally screams out “I don’t give a shit about anyone in this planet except ME”. But for a few thousand dollars in tax savings 50m Americans said the same damn thing about themselves. Even if Joe Biden wins this election Trump has successfully exposed the truth about this country, we are a nation exactly half full of people that turned a blind eye to the most morally repugnant human being to ever hold public office in this country. Not only that, they cherished it. That is a searing condemnation of the United States. This is the saddest moment of my life as an American that was once proud of his country.

I agree with you strongly. How this man, this carbuncle on the backside of America, was ever allowed to become leader of one of America's leading parties is something which I think historians will pore over and discuss for years to come. He's exposed parts of America which show up the worst in this country - the "very fine people" in Charlottesville, the Proud Boys, basically white supremacists. He has absolutely no redeeming values; his run for the presidency should have been stopped at the mocking of the disabled journalist or of course, the "pussy grab" radio interview. Yet he came and he triumphed and even after the children in cages and so many other things, he has still been able to come so close and - let's be clear, America is not out of danger: he could STILL WIN. That says something very bad about America.

As of now, I'm a bit nervous about Arizona, a lot more hopeful about GA, but if he keeps AZ and NV (even that's too narrow for comfort), Joe should be ok. You can see the difference in class between the two men; JB's comments have been very measured, designed to soothe and unite, addressing all Americans and trying to bring people together. Trump's comments are effectively a moan - how dare they do this to me; this is unfair, etc etc.

One thing I take comfort in this election is the number of ballots cast and the number of people voting, apparently quite a few who never voted in the past. The increased number of votes is not just due to increased population size. People actually wanted to vote.

So sure the winner gets the greatest number of votes ever cast for a presidential candidate, and hopefully the loser gets the second largest number in US history.

Now, over my near five decades of voting, I've come to belief that both parties dislike large voter turnouts, because that means more chances to go wrong, for people to actually vote intelligently rather than the straight party line.

We have mentioned on this threat about how the powerful try to control the poor dumb rednecks like me, growing up barefoot all summer in a whites only small town in Arkansas. The entire political system in the US, and I suspect most nations in the world, is designed to protect the people in power.

FreequentFlier wrote:

win or lose, Donald Trump is going to win the 2nd most votes in US history today. He's going to win even more votes than Barack Obama did en route to his landslide win in 2008 over John McCain.

A curious person might ask why or how the hell that happened.

I have asked, and the reason is because Trump is such an enormous LOSER. He is such a loser that he lost with having more votes than Obama, to a candidate like Biden. He's that much of a loser..

I find it stunning that a president that oversaw one of the strongest economy's ever for the majority of his term, handled things so badly, Casodex such avrodt in the Republican party, that those people voted against him and in support of Biden this time.

That is historically bad.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

FreequentFlier wrote:

win or lose, Donald Trump is going to win the 2nd most votes in US history today. He's going to win even more votes than Barack Obama did en route to his landslide win in 2008 over John McCain.

A curious person might ask why or how the hell that happened.

I have asked, and the reason is because Trump is such an enormous LOSER. He is such a loser that he lost with having more votes than Obama, to a candidate like Biden. He's that much of a loser..

I find it stunning that a president that oversaw one of the strongest economy's ever for the majority of his term, handled things so badly, Casodex such avrodt in the Republican party, that those people voted against him and in support of Biden this time.

That is historically bad.

Tugg

As others have said, ALL he had to do was competently respond to COVID and he would have had a major reelection victory and 2nd term mandate. But that would have required some adulting and management skills...

Trump is terrible, and I'm biting my nails with this election, but one thing seems sure is that something(s) about Democrats is just not resonating with people enough that it's driving them to pull the lever for someone awful like Trump. Calling all of them morons and racists does not adequately explain the behavior (looking like he notable INCREASED his minority vote). For one reason or other, enough people think voting for Trump is less scary than voting for Biden and the Dems. I have my own thoughts on why, but that's a whole other thread.

Wow, I earlier said Trump made a BIG error messing with John McCain but that might not be the only late John giving him karma. Atlanta area counties are delivering heavy for Biden right now.... Rep. John Lewis' district.

Who would have thought.

I don't know if anyone saw this. but on CNN they were showing a group of Trump supporters demonstrating outside one of the places were they are counting votes in Arizona. They said some have long guns.

FreequentFlier wrote:

rfields5421 wrote:

And if the GOP would follow Ronald Reagan and Bush 1 and Bush 2 efforts to find a reasonable compromise on immigration, the GOP would never lose a national election.

Both parties cater to fringe groups and ignore most of the people in the country.

And both waste too much time telling us what to fear, and not working to eliminate the cause of the fear.

I generally agree. With that said, what people fail to realize, including the vast majority of our "elites", is that win or lose, Donald Trump is going to win the 2nd most votes in US history today. He's going to win even more votes than Barack Obama did en route to his landslide win in 2008 over John McCain.

and despite being the incumbent with the usual benefit millions more wanted to get rid of him.

So, in Donald Trumps own words:

In 2016 he barely eeked out a win against the then worst, criminal, corrupt candidate ever.
In 2020 he apparently lost against the now worst, criminal, corrupt candidate ever.

Logically that makes him the 2nd worst candidate to ever run, and since bad candidates usually don´t win presidential elections Donald Trump, by his own words, was the worst President the United States ever had. The number of remaining fans doesn´t change that.

best regards
Thomas

We're just waiting for another tranche of votes from Maricopa, AZ, which may change things in AZ. Right now, GA looks more promising for Biden (who'd have thought), but with each new tranche, Trump's lead is shrinking (now 23k). It looks like there are enough remaining (if the proportions are maintained) to allow Biden to take the lead. That would take Biden to 269. If Biden takes AZ, that takes him over the line (280); likewise NV (275 or 286, if in addition to AZ). It's looking very good!

dragon-wings wrote:

I don't know if anyone saw this. but on CNN they were showing a group of Trump supporters demonstrating outside one of the places were they are counting votes in Arizona. They said some have long guns.

Yeah that is how... non-thinking?, crowd following, Trumpsters are, they don't understand the process and that it is durable and has developed and improved over decades of elections.

Two top county officials — one a Democrat, the other a Republican — issued a statement expressing concern about how misinformation had spread about the integrity of the election process.

“Everyone should want all the votes to be counted, whether they were mailed or cast in person,” said the statement signed by Clint Hickman, the GOP chair of the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, and Democratic Supervisor Steve Gallardo. “An accurate vote takes time. ... This is evidence of democracy, not fraud.”

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/ne ... nrest-seen

I will also note that no real unrest has occurred with this election. Certainly none of the crap Trump stated would happen, in fact it's Trumpsters causing problem and creating potentially dangerous situations.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

Certainly none of the crap Trump stated would happen, in fact it's Trumpsters causing problem and creating potentially dangerous situations.

^ This is what the FBI has been saying for a couple of years but the WH didn’t want it talked about widely.

FreequentFlier wrote:

I generally agree. With that said, what people fail to realize, including the vast majority of our "elites", is that win or lose, Donald Trump is going to win the 2nd most votes in US history today. He's going to win even more votes than Barack Obama did en route to his landslide win in 2008 over John McCain.

A curious person might ask why or how the hell that happened. Our self styled elites don't even bother. They're too busy defunding the police or outsourcing jobs in other people's neighborhoods - neighborhoods they will never actually visit or even care to learn about.

It is my opinion that Trump scared a lot of people to vote for him. He was saying how the suburbs will be destroyed if Biden wins, or be afraid of socialism if Biden wins and many other examples. He even said the will be no Thanksgiving or Christmas is Biden wins.

That last one is ironic because if he did SOMETHING to stop or slow the spread of covid there wouldn't be much worry about gathering for Thanksgiving or Christmas.

cpd wrote:

sbworcs wrote:

From my overseas perspecitve the attempt by Trump to suppress votes that have nto been counted (that he thinks will go to the Democrats) is surely trying to steal the election - which he says is wrong?

After this, the USA will have no rights to call on other countries to respect democratic election norms when the USA leadership is unable to do so itself. Maybe it is deliberate from Trump and his people as a scorched earth policy, they know they are on the way out so they'll cause as much damage as possible while they can.

IMHO the USA lost it already in 2000. And overlooking the mess they made in the world by “bringing peace and freedom”, it’s obvious the right wing had to win.

wingman wrote:

This is what I’ll never understand in a million years - Donald Trump is the very definition of the American “elite”. He lives, breathes, personifies and practices the very same despicable qualities that all of his voters profess to be voting against. Every single act, word, tweet, action, draft dodge, tax dodge, pussy grab, whore payoff, lawyer up, dog whistle, golf game, gold tower address...every fiber of his existence literally screams out “I don’t give a shit about anyone in this planet except ME”. But for a few thousand dollars in tax savings 50m Americans said the same damn thing about themselves. Even if Joe Biden wins this election Trump has successfully exposed the truth about this country, we are a nation exactly half full of people that turned a blind eye to the most morally repugnant human being to ever hold public office in this country. Not only that, they cherished it. That is a searing condemnation of the United States. This is the saddest moment of my life as an American that was once proud of his country.

Wow, very impressive comment. I just read this comment by Dov Seidman:

“Whatever the final vote, it is already clear that the number of Americans saying, ‘Enough is enough’ was not enough,” said Dov Seidman, an expert on leadership and author of the book “How: Why How We Do Anything Means Everything.”

“There was no blue political wave,” he noted. “But, more importantly, there was no moral wave. There was no widespread rejection of the kind of leadership that divides us, especially in a pandemic.”

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... 0.amp.html

That was something that shocked me as well after reading the early results immediately after November 03/04. Let’s see how it ends...

PixelPilot

Wonder how 4 years of political games from the Republicans would play out in 2024.

Could find that voters are unimpressed with Republican values.

There is the chance Trump can still win this. Especially if he can use the courts to have those votes excluded/destroyed.