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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:13 pm

I watched a few minutes of Hannity last night. Hannity has already shifted into "Obama mode", it was like time travel back to 2014.
 
art
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:15 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
... take your pyrrhic victory and enjoy it. There is no mandate for Biden nor congressional democrats.


Just a democratic one. It looks like one candidate will have won both the popular vote and the electoral college vote. In your opinion what has to happen for a candidate to have a mandate?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:16 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Well Hannity is calling for a New Election, so I think I have to believe the report.


My view is Hannity is a loose wheel at Fox, an independent contractor, not an employee. So he can get away with such outrageous BS and Fox isn't liable/ responsible of him. Could be wrong on his actual contract. Such a status would be much more financially lucrative for Hannity.

re: New Election - there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution or Federal Law that would allow a new election.

And I cannot see a single state willing to go through the entire process again, and the large expense. Even the most rapidly Republican states.



True, but we will only know over the next few days what happens at Fox. It looks like by this afternoon the Election will be called by AP and CNN and other orgs,

Here is a further thread on it with the people that have the memos.

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/ ... 1458800641
Last edited by casinterest on Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:18 pm

 
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PixelPilot
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:19 pm

I am happy if things end as they are.
Very interesting time ahead and I'm very curious how the side that kept constantly referring to covid as Trump's virus will handle it.
Virtue signaling and hiding behind someone else is easy but now they will have to act. Obviously, it will be it's all Trump's fault for the next 4 years but a lot of things will become clear in a short while.
On top of that, I REALLY want to see how the far left will progress with their agendas once blue is in the office. AOC and the squad were already loud that they will push for more if Joe wins and while I don't think he will do much about it as the guy is in this business for a loooong time, Kamala on the other hand potentially will.

Like it or not, very interesting times ahead.
Last edited by PixelPilot on Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
acavpics
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:20 pm

It is sad to see Biden's Arizona lead diminishing after AP and Fox previously called it. I find it hard to believe that Biden is only up by about 1.5% but the democratic senate candidate Mark Kelly won it comfortably by 3 pts. That too, his opponent, Martha McSally was a vocal supporter of Trump
Did a lot of people split their ticket "Trump/Kelly"?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:21 pm

acavpics wrote:
It is sad to see Biden's Arizona lead diminishing after AP and Fox previously called it. I find it hard to believe that Biden is only up by about 1.5% but the democratic senate candidate Mark Kelly won it comfortably by 3 pts. That too, his opponent, Martha McSally was a vocal supporter of Trump
Did a lot of people split their ticket "Trump/Kelly"?



Probably. It happened in NC, where the GOP candidate for Governor got trounced, but Trump and Tillis are carrying the state.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:22 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
You are choosing to focus on one poll that had a margin that large. As such, you’re cherry picking data for the purpose of inflating the weight of your argument, when you really don’t need to. Should I point to some polls that had Trump winning Michigan?


It wasn't just one poll, I every day, there were polls saying about a Biden blowout, a Democrat takeover of the Senate. That was going on for weeks.

That's fine, you take your pyrrhic victory and enjoy it. There is no mandate for Biden nor congressional democrats.


OK, let's try the question again in a very simple way - forget what this poll or that poll said. The average is what they said if they spoke with one voice.

The RCP national average is Biden +7.2.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6247.html

Right now, the popular vote difference is between 5 and 6 points.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 91048.html

Question: is 7.2 a huge difference to you from 5 or 6?


Right, the IDB, Rassmussen, were the outliers that brought that average down.

The highly publicised polls: economist/yougov 10%+, CNBC 10+, Qunnicpiac 11+, Fox news +8. Majority of which were the ones who got the headlines from the MSM.

You and most of you folks in the left I am sure where of the types that dismissed Rasmussen and IMDB as outliers.

If we dig into the battle ground states, its much much worse. So lets not spin this.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:23 pm

acavpics wrote:
It is sad to see Biden's Arizona lead diminishing after AP and Fox previously called it. I find it hard to believe that Biden is only up by about 1.5% but the democratic senate candidate Mark Kelly won it comfortably by 3 pts. That too, his opponent, Martha McSally was a vocal supporter of Trump
Did a lot of people split their ticket "Trump/Kelly"?

By and large, the American people have rejected Trumpism -and- the AOCs of the world in one election.
We have sent Trump home packing, and have AOCs and "the squad" on notice.
America is a center-right nation. This reinforces it.
 
rfields5421
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:28 pm

casinterest wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Well Hannity is calling for a New Election, so I think I have to believe the report.


My view is Hannity is a loose wheel at Fox, an independent contractor, not an employee. So he can get away with such outrageous BS and Fox isn't liable/ responsible of him. Could be wrong on his actual contract. Such a status would be much more financially lucrative for Hannity.

re: New Election - there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution or Federal Law that would allow a new election.

And I cannot see a single state willing to go through the entire process again, and the large expense. Even the most rapidly Republican states.



True, but we will only know over the next few days what happens at Fox. It looks like by this afternoon the Election will be called by AP and CNN and other orgs,

Here is a further thread on it with the people that have the memos.

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/ ... 1458800641


Again my personal opinion.

To me it appears the FoxNews on-air and management, prefer a Democrat in the White House. That way they can complain all day long and never have to defend anything done in Washington. Trump's inconsistency has been difficult for the news organizations supporting him several times.

Hard to start the AM news shows praising one policy, only to have the President flip 180 at noon, and have your PM folks criticizing your AM folks.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:31 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

It wasn't just one poll, I every day, there were polls saying about a Biden blowout, a Democrat takeover of the Senate. That was going on for weeks.

That's fine, you take your pyrrhic victory and enjoy it. There is no mandate for Biden nor congressional democrats.


OK, let's try the question again in a very simple way - forget what this poll or that poll said. The average is what they said if they spoke with one voice.

The RCP national average is Biden +7.2.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6247.html

Right now, the popular vote difference is between 5 and 6 points.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 91048.html

Question: is 7.2 a huge difference to you from 5 or 6?


Right, the IDB, Rassmussen, were the outliers that brought that average down.

The highly publicised polls: economist/yougov 10%+, CNBC 10+, Qunnicpiac 11+, Fox news +8. Majority of which were the ones who got the headlines from the MSM.

You and most of you folks in the left I am sure where of the types that dismissed Rasmussen and IMDB as outliers.

If we dig into the battle ground states, its much much worse. So lets not spin this.


I'm sorry, but everyone has their own mind. It's painting with a very broad brush to claim that everyone dismissed this that and the other. In the other post, I specifically said your point would have been valid if you singled out NBC and Rasmussen, because they are known for being exceptionally partisan polls. I never dismissed anything because I pay attention to the averages most, as anyone who uses statistics in their profession would.

You still neglected to answer the question - is the actual result of the election so far off from the RCP national of 7.2? 538 and other places discussed the likelihood of the national average being a little lower than that, and low and behold, it's currently between 5 and 6. To you, is everything actually wrong if the actual result is within 2 points of one of the most-quoted averages?

As for the battlegrounds, I already mapped out in a previous post that the RCP battleground averages were not THAT off. FL and WI were not accurate, but the overall spread was 2.3. That is not spin, it's math. When the vote tallies are added up for the battleground states, the difference will be 1.5-3%. The RCP average for the battlegrounds actually turned out to be entirely within the margin of error. Nothing you say can change the math of that.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elect ... nd-states/
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:31 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
By and large, the American people have rejected Trumpism -and- the AOCs of the world in one election.

??? Almost half of the American people have voted for Trump. About 70 million as compared to 74 million who voted for Biden. So I don‘t think it‘s correct to say the American people have rejected Trumpism.
 
acavpics
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:32 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
By and large, the American people have rejected Trumpism -and- the AOCs of the world in one election.
We have sent Trump home packing, and have AOCs and "the squad" on notice.
America is a center-right nation. This reinforces it.


"Squad on notice"???

ALL four members of the squad won re-election this time. The House Democrats that lost were center-left.
I'd say, the power of progressives has increased.
Last edited by acavpics on Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:33 pm

rfields5421 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:

My view is Hannity is a loose wheel at Fox, an independent contractor, not an employee. So he can get away with such outrageous BS and Fox isn't liable/ responsible of him. Could be wrong on his actual contract. Such a status would be much more financially lucrative for Hannity.

re: New Election - there is absolutely nothing in the Constitution or Federal Law that would allow a new election.

And I cannot see a single state willing to go through the entire process again, and the large expense. Even the most rapidly Republican states.



True, but we will only know over the next few days what happens at Fox. It looks like by this afternoon the Election will be called by AP and CNN and other orgs,

Here is a further thread on it with the people that have the memos.

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/ ... 1458800641


Again my personal opinion.

To me it appears the FoxNews on-air and management, prefer a Democrat in the White House. That way they can complain all day long and never have to defend anything done in Washington. Trump's inconsistency has been difficult for the news organizations supporting him several times.

Hard to start the AM news shows praising one policy, only to have the President flip 180 at noon, and have your PM folks criticizing your AM folks.


Boy are you right. I have seen quite a few Fox & Friends segments in the last couple years where they planned to interview the President about this or that, but ultimately sat uncomfortably trying to somehow steward his stream of consciousness toward the end of the interview.
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:36 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
acavpics wrote:
It is sad to see Biden's Arizona lead diminishing after AP and Fox previously called it. I find it hard to believe that Biden is only up by about 1.5% but the democratic senate candidate Mark Kelly won it comfortably by 3 pts. That too, his opponent, Martha McSally was a vocal supporter of Trump
Did a lot of people split their ticket "Trump/Kelly"?

By and large, the American people have rejected Trumpism -and- the AOCs of the world in one election.
We have sent Trump home packing, and have AOCs and "the squad" on notice.
America is a center-right nation. This reinforces it.


Didn't the entire "Squad" get re-elected?

AOC: 70-30
Ilhan Omar: 65-25 (10% to very liberal 3rd party)
Ayanna Pressley: 87-13
Rashida Tlaib: 78-19
 
maverick4002
Posts: 454
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:37 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
acavpics wrote:
It is sad to see Biden's Arizona lead diminishing after AP and Fox previously called it. I find it hard to believe that Biden is only up by about 1.5% but the democratic senate candidate Mark Kelly won it comfortably by 3 pts. That too, his opponent, Martha McSally was a vocal supporter of Trump
Did a lot of people split their ticket "Trump/Kelly"?

By and large, the American people have rejected Trumpism -and- the AOCs of the world in one election.
We have sent Trump home packing, and have AOCs and "the squad" on notice.
America is a center-right nation. This reinforces it.


Evidence that AOC type initiatives were rejected in this election? I dont recall any progressive on the top line ticket. I do recall several states, including republican ones, passing progressive measures though.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:38 pm

N14AZ wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
By and large, the American people have rejected Trumpism -and- the AOCs of the world in one election.

??? Almost half of the American people have voted for Trump. About 70 million as compared to 74 million who voted for Biden. So I don‘t think it‘s correct to say the American people have rejected Trumpism.


Mmmm okay but even that's not quite accurate. Between 68 and 72% of voting-age eligible Americans participated in this election - let's just make it 70. Roughly 160 million people voted so that means there were 225 million or so eligible voters. Trump's 69.5 million votes would comprise 31% of eligible voters.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:39 pm

acavpics wrote:
It is sad to see Biden's Arizona lead diminishing after AP and Fox previously called it. I find it hard to believe that Biden is only up by about 1.5% but the democratic senate candidate Mark Kelly won it comfortably by 3 pts. That too, his opponent, Martha McSally was a vocal supporter of Trump
Did a lot of people split their ticket "Trump/Kelly"?

Even if it is not necessary I really hope Biden wins AZ... just to cherish the legacy of this man:
Image
Source: Wikipedia
 
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PixelPilot
Posts: 696
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:40 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
acavpics wrote:
It is sad to see Biden's Arizona lead diminishing after AP and Fox previously called it. I find it hard to believe that Biden is only up by about 1.5% but the democratic senate candidate Mark Kelly won it comfortably by 3 pts. That too, his opponent, Martha McSally was a vocal supporter of Trump
Did a lot of people split their ticket "Trump/Kelly"?

By and large, the American people have rejected Trumpism -and- the AOCs of the world in one election.
We have sent Trump home packing, and have AOCs and "the squad" on notice.
America is a center-right nation. This reinforces it.


I don't want to break your bubble but far/progressive left actually grew stronger and they might get even bigger if Joe/Kamala give them space to breathe.
 
aerosreenivas
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:48 pm

The actual reason for Trump's loss is that he created lot of 'Detractors' within Republican Party, Armed Forces and from His Close Inner Circles.

It is nothing to do with 'Voter Fraud or Mail In Ballots' as he claims it to be.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:50 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
I don't want to break your bubble but far/progressive left actually grew stronger and they might get even bigger if Joe/Kamala give them space to breathe.

They grew stronger by losing seats in the House? Interesting take.
Democrats were wiped-out at state houses too..
In deep blue Rhode Island and Vermont, Democratic house speakers lost their re-election bids to Republicans.
But yeah, otherwise, that was a great response!
 
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Tugger
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:53 pm

And just before anyone gloats or complains. I fully expect and I think we all should agree, that there will be recounts in most of the states being discussed here. I think we will know who is the victor but recounts to confirm and validate.
Arizona
Nevada
Georgia
Pennsylvania

One or two may not possibly but I think for the sake of avoiding stupid crap, they will do it to confirm their systems and processes. And I predict a the vote counts will shift by a few hundred votes and that's it (except for the lawsuits that will follow).

Tugg
 
astuteman
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:54 pm

Interesting entry on the 538.com blog links out to the SCOTUSblog on twitter

https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog?ref_src= ... overage%2F

For those dreading, or hoping, that a conservative 6-3 Supreme Court with three appointees of Donald Trump will overturn the results of the election and deem him to be re-elected: there is absolutely no chance of that happening, whatsoever. None.


Thoughts?
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3612
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:54 pm

2122M wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
acavpics wrote:
It is sad to see Biden's Arizona lead diminishing after AP and Fox previously called it. I find it hard to believe that Biden is only up by about 1.5% but the democratic senate candidate Mark Kelly won it comfortably by 3 pts. That too, his opponent, Martha McSally was a vocal supporter of Trump
Did a lot of people split their ticket "Trump/Kelly"?

By and large, the American people have rejected Trumpism -and- the AOCs of the world in one election.
We have sent Trump home packing, and have AOCs and "the squad" on notice.
America is a center-right nation. This reinforces it.


Didn't the entire "Squad" get re-elected?

AOC: 70-30
Ilhan Omar: 65-25 (10% to very liberal 3rd party)
Ayanna Pressley: 87-13
Rashida Tlaib: 78-19


It's not like they are going to lose anyway. This is like the QAnon supporter losing in heavily red GA-14.

Ultimately, the progressives may have win re-election, but it's highly doubt that any "far-left" agenda would get far since Dems barely hang onto House and it's very doubtful that they'll get to 50-50 in Senate (When Susan Collins won in ME it's game over more or less), as it's VERY unlikely that they'll get both seats in GA in a runoff (The presidential result is close as-is in that state right now).

N14AZ wrote:
Even if it is not necessary I really hope Biden wins AZ... just to cherish the legacy of this man:


I do miss McCain as somebody that's willing to cross the aisle and gets things done. 2008 was just not a good year for Republicans anyway with the economy in tatters.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:55 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
rfields5421 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


True, but we will only know over the next few days what happens at Fox. It looks like by this afternoon the Election will be called by AP and CNN and other orgs,

Here is a further thread on it with the people that have the memos.

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/ ... 1458800641


Again my personal opinion.

To me it appears the FoxNews on-air and management, prefer a Democrat in the White House. That way they can complain all day long and never have to defend anything done in Washington. Trump's inconsistency has been difficult for the news organizations supporting him several times.

Hard to start the AM news shows praising one policy, only to have the President flip 180 at noon, and have your PM folks criticizing your AM folks.


Boy are you right. I have seen quite a few Fox & Friends segments in the last couple years where they planned to interview the President about this or that, but ultimately sat uncomfortably trying to somehow steward his stream of consciousness toward the end of the interview.



They made a killing during Obama's presidency, so i don't doubt it, but at this time, they are going to run with Trump as long as they can
Controversy sells. especially to folks that don't care about laws or math.
 
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PixelPilot
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:58 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
I don't want to break your bubble but far/progressive left actually grew stronger and they might get even bigger if Joe/Kamala give them space to breathe.

They grew stronger by losing seats in the House? Interesting take.
Democrats were wiped-out at state houses too..
In deep blue Rhode Island and Vermont, Democratic house speakers lost their re-election bids to Republicans.
But yeah, otherwise, that was a great response!


Yep, the "classic" democrats lost seats while the squad got re-elected.
You have to look past the obvious and see what's trending.
Pelosi and Schumer are losing ground within their party.
The question is who will take over.
 
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Exrampieyyz
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:02 pm

THS214 wrote:
Exrampieyyz wrote:
Lets face it Donny has lost 2 elections.

Both 16 & 20 beaten in the public vote.
Any decent normal person would accept defeat with dignity not make false claims from the White House.

How manty thousands of votes in how many states does he think people could sneak in.

Fake news from the biggest creator of fake news


Here I must oppose. In the USA its about electoral votes (as long as all of those vote like they should). So popular votes don't count. That is the law and all should obey that law.

Yes we all know about the electoral vote. And many have won the popular vote and lost the election.

But No one but Donny has made a speech from the White House claiming the electoral process is corrupt.

Trump always acts the same . Take it to court. Bully. Use other people s money and go Bankrupt.

He s staying true to form.

Even Fox news seems to be backing off from him.
 
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PixelPilot
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:04 pm

Just read on Fox:

Georgia to go to a recount
Georgia's secretary of state says there will be a recount in the state due to it being such a close race.
"With a margin that small, there will be a recount in Georgia," Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said.
Officials say they expect to know the result by the end of November.
 
astuteman
Posts: 7439
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:07 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
Just read on Fox:

Georgia to go to a recount
Georgia's secretary of state says there will be a recount in the state due to it being such a close race.
"With a margin that small, there will be a recount in Georgia," Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said.
Officials say they expect to know the result by the end of November.


I don't think this is any major surprise. I guess the real question is "will it actually matter?"

Rgds
 
art
Posts: 4191
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
By and large, the American people have rejected Trumpism -and- the AOCs of the world in one election.

??? Almost half of the American people have voted for Trump. About 70 million as compared to 74 million who voted for Biden. So I don‘t think it‘s correct to say the American people have rejected Trumpism.


Mmmm okay but even that's not quite accurate. Between 68 and 72% of voting-age eligible Americans participated in this election - let's just make it 70. Roughly 160 million people voted so that means there were 225 million or so eligible voters. Trump's 69.5 million votes would comprise 31% of eligible voters.


2/3 of the electorate did not vote for Biden, 2/3 did not vote for Trump. Either both were rejected on that basis or neither.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:07 pm

New data from Arizona. Difference now +43k Biden.
Donald Trump needs ~59% of outstanding votes to retake Arizona, but he is under-performing at ~53%.
Arizona is likely out of reach for Trump now.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:13 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
New data from Arizona. Difference now +43k Biden.
Donald Trump needs ~59% of outstanding votes to retake Arizona, but he is under-performing at ~53%.
Arizona is likely out of reach for Trump now.



Yeah, I was running the same math
220,000 votes outstanding, and currently trump is taking about a 5-6 % advantage as they count.

6% indicates only 13,200 vote difference. Trump needs 43000+

53% Trump === 116600 votes to a 47% for Biden is 103400
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:17 pm

More votes from Delaware Co. in PA, Biden now +9027 in PA.
To quote NIKV69, Biden is "running away with it".
 
zakuivcustom
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Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:17 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
I don't want to break your bubble but far/progressive left actually grew stronger and they might get even bigger if Joe/Kamala give them space to breathe.

They grew stronger by losing seats in the House? Interesting take.
Democrats were wiped-out at state houses too..
In deep blue Rhode Island and Vermont, Democratic house speakers lost their re-election bids to Republicans.
But yeah, otherwise, that was a great response!


Yep, the "classic" democrats lost seats while the squad got re-elected.
You have to look past the obvious and see what's trending.
Pelosi and Schumer are losing ground within their party.
The question is who will take over.


And without the "classic" democrats, what can the like of "The Squad" do anyway? Absolutely nothing! Oh, and how many new progressives are elected this time around even in heavy blue district? Zero?

The Squad ultimately is just 4 out of 435 House members. To think they have that much power is a joke.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:18 pm

N867DA wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:


All the air of the democrats is taking up by uneducated folks that label those that have other ideas as " socialist/communist/SJW radical" These are labels applied by folks that want to control others. They find east victims in folks that go to Fox News/ Right wing radio to enjoy and relish laughing at others, while they are the ones being manipulated into making others enemies. There are not many real conservatives. Most are uneducated folks that vote against their own self interests.


“Uneducated” is code for “I think he’s stupid and beneath me”; always a winning strategy. Thinking other people vote “against their own self-interest” is another code “they’re stupid and I know better”. Neither of these positions are smart or winning. Dems keep that up and another version of Trump will occupy the WH in 2025.


Absolutely not. Uneducated is code for not having a college degree, which is a matter of fact that is correlated to but by no means causes or certainly leads to financial success. A lot of weasel words are needed to frame the though: In general, white people without college degrees have trended toward the Republican Party in recent elections. It is not saying anyone is stupid or dumb. It is just a demographic trend. There's a sacrificial lamb that's a source of dumbass things across the political spectrum. No one was super thrilled when Hank Johnson said Guam might tip over into the sea due to overpopulation, or some of the stuff that Maxine Walters or even AOC says. There's certainly a right-wing equivalent to each of these figures.

Voting against self-interest, eh, things get dicier and it's harder to be non-partisan about this. I guess that's why we try to convince fellow voters and have elections every once in a while. I absolutely, 100%, feel the Democratic party offers a far better deal to most Americans. People are welcome to disagree, and and I may even be wrong. Or the Republicans may change up a few things, and over time they will be the better deal. Right now, neither party is for dropping a pre-existing conditions mandate on healthcare. Though it was achieved by the Democrats, it forced the GOP to change its stance, and in that way people should re-evaluate which party is superior.

Regardless, Democrats have a lot of soul searching to do to better connect with these voters.


So, your definition of “educated” is a four-year college degree, correct? Lots of uneducated swine disagree and they take the “uneducated” as an insult. I’ve been educated on any number of subjects many times over by those uneducated swine. Perhaps, Democrats should try to listen to the uneducated instead of looking down on them.
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13952
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:20 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
N867DA wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

“Uneducated” is code for “I think he’s stupid and beneath me”; always a winning strategy. Thinking other people vote “against their own self-interest” is another code “they’re stupid and I know better”. Neither of these positions are smart or winning. Dems keep that up and another version of Trump will occupy the WH in 2025.


Absolutely not. Uneducated is code for not having a college degree, which is a matter of fact that is correlated to but by no means causes or certainly leads to financial success. A lot of weasel words are needed to frame the though: In general, white people without college degrees have trended toward the Republican Party in recent elections. It is not saying anyone is stupid or dumb. It is just a demographic trend. There's a sacrificial lamb that's a source of dumbass things across the political spectrum. No one was super thrilled when Hank Johnson said Guam might tip over into the sea due to overpopulation, or some of the stuff that Maxine Walters or even AOC says. There's certainly a right-wing equivalent to each of these figures.

Voting against self-interest, eh, things get dicier and it's harder to be non-partisan about this. I guess that's why we try to convince fellow voters and have elections every once in a while. I absolutely, 100%, feel the Democratic party offers a far better deal to most Americans. People are welcome to disagree, and and I may even be wrong. Or the Republicans may change up a few things, and over time they will be the better deal. Right now, neither party is for dropping a pre-existing conditions mandate on healthcare. Though it was achieved by the Democrats, it forced the GOP to change its stance, and in that way people should re-evaluate which party is superior.

Regardless, Democrats have a lot of soul searching to do to better connect with these voters.


So, your definition of “educated” is a four-year college degree, correct? Lots of uneducated swine disagree. I’ve been educated on any number of subjects many times over by those uneducated swine. Perhaps, Democrats should try to listen to the uneducated instead of looking down on them.


No the democrats look at those who want to learn more. Not just college educated. That may be your definition. Those that follow fox news, and right wing radio are uneducated. "You are the one that keeps calling them swine. so you can own that one. I just call out how easily manipulated they are by controlling parties.
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:20 pm

A lot of those "poorly-educated" are people in the rust belt who refuse to move away from home for a better future. I am so tired of hearing about coal miners losing their jobs and then refusing to do anything in terms of professional development (or moving to a more prosperous area). They want Trump to come in and save them? Talk about a nanny state! Bootstraps or something...
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:22 pm

NBC now calling AZ-Sen for Mark Kelly. Nice to have an astronaut in Congress again!
Senate now 48/48 and both Arizona U.S. Senators are Democrats.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8375
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:23 pm

casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
N867DA wrote:

Absolutely not. Uneducated is code for not having a college degree, which is a matter of fact that is correlated to but by no means causes or certainly leads to financial success. A lot of weasel words are needed to frame the though: In general, white people without college degrees have trended toward the Republican Party in recent elections. It is not saying anyone is stupid or dumb. It is just a demographic trend. There's a sacrificial lamb that's a source of dumbass things across the political spectrum. No one was super thrilled when Hank Johnson said Guam might tip over into the sea due to overpopulation, or some of the stuff that Maxine Walters or even AOC says. There's certainly a right-wing equivalent to each of these figures.

Voting against self-interest, eh, things get dicier and it's harder to be non-partisan about this. I guess that's why we try to convince fellow voters and have elections every once in a while. I absolutely, 100%, feel the Democratic party offers a far better deal to most Americans. People are welcome to disagree, and and I may even be wrong. Or the Republicans may change up a few things, and over time they will be the better deal. Right now, neither party is for dropping a pre-existing conditions mandate on healthcare. Though it was achieved by the Democrats, it forced the GOP to change its stance, and in that way people should re-evaluate which party is superior.

Regardless, Democrats have a lot of soul searching to do to better connect with these voters.


So, your definition of “educated” is a four-year college degree, correct? Lots of uneducated swine disagree. I’ve been educated on any number of subjects many times over by those uneducated swine. Perhaps, Democrats should try to listen to the uneducated instead of looking down on them.


No the democrats look at those who want to learn more. Not just college educated. That may be your definition. Those that follow fox news, and right wing radio are uneducated. "You are the one that keeps calling them swine. so you can own that one. I just call out how easily manipulated they are by controlling parties.


And that attitude is why this election turned this way. Your party keeps insulting boatloads of voters and they retaliated.
 
panamair
Posts: 4470
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:30 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

This is so ridiculous, Kamala Harris days before the election published a 'socialist manifesto' of her own preaching equity over equality .https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ality.html That wasn't mis information.

As for BLM, Democrats the entire summer sided with BLM instead of a nuanced rational way of addressing police brutality, not even discussing the subject in a sane way, blaming all cops and siding with rioters and looters. That wasn't misinformation, we even saw in this forum how many supported the riots and looting saying that was 'peaceful'.


So you are listening to the lying rags that call it socialism instead of examining the video itself. This article is proof of the disinformation machine which the right feeds on. Her point is salient and points to an issue in our society, where people that start from behind remain behind.

it does not advocate "socialism" where the government controls everything, It points out that there are issues where people need to be treated as equal when starting a momentous task instead of being beat down by the racists that attacked BLM for the wrong reasons.


Right, my Mom and my Dad, came from Cuba, with only 5 dollars in their pockets. Worked their asses cleaning bathrooms, cleaning hotel rooms, picking up trash, paid college for 3 of us at home, we have become quite sucessful thankfully and both of them live very comfortably on their own home with a good retirement.

They started from behind too. And thankfully this country provided for the opportunity to thrive.


Good for them! That is what America is about. However you do realize that what the Dotard has done these past four years has increased the potential of your Mom and Dad being called names and being told to “go back to where you came from”, right? He may not say it himself but all his cues to his rabid supporters are allowing them to do this.

It’s ok to be a Republican (I myself had only voted Republican until 2016 and now) and argue the traditional Republican values (many of which are shared by the majority of the country)but what the Dotard has been doing these four years is NOT Republican.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4046
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:30 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
N867DA wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

“Uneducated” is code for “I think he’s stupid and beneath me”; always a winning strategy. Thinking other people vote “against their own self-interest” is another code “they’re stupid and I know better”. Neither of these positions are smart or winning. Dems keep that up and another version of Trump will occupy the WH in 2025.


Absolutely not. Uneducated is code for not having a college degree, which is a matter of fact that is correlated to but by no means causes or certainly leads to financial success. A lot of weasel words are needed to frame the though: In general, white people without college degrees have trended toward the Republican Party in recent elections. It is not saying anyone is stupid or dumb. It is just a demographic trend. There's a sacrificial lamb that's a source of dumbass things across the political spectrum. No one was super thrilled when Hank Johnson said Guam might tip over into the sea due to overpopulation, or some of the stuff that Maxine Walters or even AOC says. There's certainly a right-wing equivalent to each of these figures.

Voting against self-interest, eh, things get dicier and it's harder to be non-partisan about this. I guess that's why we try to convince fellow voters and have elections every once in a while. I absolutely, 100%, feel the Democratic party offers a far better deal to most Americans. People are welcome to disagree, and and I may even be wrong. Or the Republicans may change up a few things, and over time they will be the better deal. Right now, neither party is for dropping a pre-existing conditions mandate on healthcare. Though it was achieved by the Democrats, it forced the GOP to change its stance, and in that way people should re-evaluate which party is superior.

Regardless, Democrats have a lot of soul searching to do to better connect with these voters.


So, your definition of “educated” is a four-year college degree, correct? Lots of uneducated swine disagree. I’ve been educated on any number of subjects many times over by those uneducated swine. Perhaps, Democrats should try to listen to the uneducated instead of looking down on them.

To a degree you are correct, but you shouldn't limit that to just the conservative complaint. There are people who look down on those without college education, and that shouldn't be. Frankly, many people in college (particularly business majors, that can be learned in the real world) don't need to be there as opposed to things that do benefit from intense education like STEM, accounting, some musical training, or focused finance education. That said, IMHO the smartest person is the person who knows what he doesn't know (which is why you don't hear me chiming in about things like aircraft design, piloting an aircraft, or operating a locomotive). To that end, there is also a very real problem of people who are not educated OR knowledgeable, and they don't have the foundational knowledge to understand appropriately discuss what they do not understand (for ample evidence look no further than how physicians are being disregarded during COVID) and as such they reject those who DO as "overeducated liberal elite," or "they don't understand what real people are dealing with.'' There are a lot of these people and they exist on both sides of the political spectrum. Both trends are real. The problem is both groups are people, and people bristle at being dismissed. With respect to "the dumb Trump voter," I know plenty of people who voted for Trump whose intelligence I don't question. I also know that some of the stupidest people I have ever met, whom I marvel that they can even tie their own shoes, voted for Trump, and their arguments are much stupider and much less measured than the intelligent people who voted for Trump. You'll find the same in people who voted for Biden.
 
User avatar
PixelPilot
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:31 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
They grew stronger by losing seats in the House? Interesting take.
Democrats were wiped-out at state houses too..
In deep blue Rhode Island and Vermont, Democratic house speakers lost their re-election bids to Republicans.
But yeah, otherwise, that was a great response!


Yep, the "classic" democrats lost seats while the squad got re-elected.
You have to look past the obvious and see what's trending.
Pelosi and Schumer are losing ground within their party.
The question is who will take over.


And without the "classic" democrats, what can the like of "The Squad" do anyway? Absolutely nothing! Oh, and how many new progressives are elected this time around even in heavy blue district? Zero?

The Squad ultimately is just 4 out of 435 House members. To think they have that much power is a joke.


Not today but what about Tomorrow?
Not sure if you visit social media but the support that they get there is beyond insane.
Unless somebody squashes it somehow it will only keep growing as it is mostly coming from college students and younger people.
Democrats always call fox watchers uneducated and stupid and deplorable blah blah but what about those college "educated" that are pushing heavy socialistic agendas? Nothing educated about those people and they are coming for all the blue seats.
I came from communism and those lads sure as hell remind me with their behavior and ideas of everything that made me and my family GTFO.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16040
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:31 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

So, your definition of “educated” is a four-year college degree, correct? Lots of uneducated swine disagree. I’ve been educated on any number of subjects many times over by those uneducated swine. Perhaps, Democrats should try to listen to the uneducated instead of looking down on them.


No the democrats look at those who want to learn more. Not just college educated. That may be your definition. Those that follow fox news, and right wing radio are uneducated. "You are the one that keeps calling them swine. so you can own that one. I just call out how easily manipulated they are by controlling parties.


And that attitude is why this election turned this way. Your party keeps insulting boatloads of voters and they retaliated.


We really need to open a lane for a center party that people can feel truly represents them. The two major parties infighting and running up massive fundraising amounts for minor gains because their outreach sucks is clearly not working.
 
User avatar
ArcticSEA
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:35 pm

Big dump from Nevada.
Biden lead in NV now 22,076.
We're done here.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3612
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:35 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
A lot of those "poorly-educated" are people in the rust belt who refuse to move away from home for a better future. I am so tired of hearing about coal miners losing their jobs and then refusing to do anything in terms of professional development (or moving to a more prosperous area). They want Trump to come in and save them? Talk about a nanny state! Bootstraps or something...


To be REALLY fair, though, it's definitely easier said than done. Ageism is a real thing in hiring practice in general anyway, i.e. why bother with some 50yo even though he's certified when they can hire some fresh college grad who'll be around for 30+ years more.

Otherwise, you're correct - basically it'll take 100% protectionism and 100% unfair hiring practice (i.e. make companies hire certain groups of people, in this case, those rural blue-collar workers) to make places like West Virginia great again anyway. And that just won't happen without pissing off a LOT of people. Oh, and it goes 100% against capitalism.

On a side note - to say people refusing to move away is a false statement. For example, from 2010-2019 WV lose 3.3% of its population (It's an estimate), by far the worst out of 50 States+DC (Puerto Rico is much worse but that's b/c of Hurricane Maria). Rust Belt overall lacks behind population growth anyway (The only other place would be those small states in NE due to high tax...with all those people moving to FL :white: ).

EDIT:
PixelPilot wrote:
Not today but what about Tomorrow?
Not sure if you visit social media but the support that they get there is beyond insane.
Unless somebody squashes it somehow it will only keep growing as it is mostly coming from college students and younger people.
Democrats always call fox watchers uneducated and stupid and deplorable blah blah but what about those college "educated" that are pushing heavy socialistic agendas? Nothing educated about those people and they are coming for all the blue seats.
I came from communism and those lads sure as hell remind me with their behavior and ideas of everything that made me and my family GTFO.


Which is where Republicans can pivot and start taking votes anyway. But alas, Republicans also move further to the right.

BTW, Social Media = the loudest and extremist person who gets all the attention are the most noticeable. I always treated Twitter and FB as a cesspool anyway.

Plus, the long saying of "People grow more conservative as the aged" still holds. Tell me what so different between the loud youths of today compare to the loud youths during Vietnam War era anyway? None!
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
PixelPilot
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:35 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:

No the democrats look at those who want to learn more. Not just college educated. That may be your definition. Those that follow fox news, and right wing radio are uneducated. "You are the one that keeps calling them swine. so you can own that one. I just call out how easily manipulated they are by controlling parties.


And that attitude is why this election turned this way. Your party keeps insulting boatloads of voters and they retaliated.


We really need to open a lane for a center party that people can feel truly represents them. The two major parties infighting and running up massive fundraising amounts for minor gains because their outreach sucks is clearly not working.


Been saying this since forever. Third-party for the center. Both extremes can go at each other all they want.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4046
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:36 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
A lot of those "poorly-educated" are people in the rust belt who refuse to move away from home for a better future. I am so tired of hearing about coal miners losing their jobs and then refusing to do anything in terms of professional development (or moving to a more prosperous area). They want Trump to come in and save them? Talk about a nanny state! Bootstraps or something...

As someone who lived for many years in the Rust Belt, and will be moving back in the coming months, I don't think that's a completely fair argument. You're talking about a generations old lifestyle, many of whom are in the stage of life where they have families they're trying to support, houses they cannot sell, etc. etc. IMHO, they have a point to be angry that the system they lived in dissolved in front of their eyes due to a combination of just tough crap luck, decades of trade agreements pushed by both sides, and the reality that somebody working in India for ten cents to their dollar will win that contract every time. They are not in a position where they can support their families AND go back to school AND move. Now, there's the flip side of that argument where one can very easily make the point that they dug their own grave with union wages, refusal to compromise, or see the future coming, etc etc. and that's where the ideological waters get murky, because I know that most of them want their union wage jobs back, and that was never going to happen under a Republican administration. What's even muddier is that the very same people who supported Trump in the South (ie my family and their social circle) spent YEARS criticizing the Rust Belt Blue Collar worker for their avid unionization and everything that came with it, only to suddenly care about them when it was politically expedient to do so.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10869
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:37 pm

Airworthy 99

Do you normally read the Daily Mail. Perhaps you should check with a real Newspaper.

As for the point that Kamala Harris is making, do you really believe that someone who went to an Ivy League University has no advantage over someone who went to a normal College.

Generations of families have sent their kids to the 'best fee paying schools. They only do that for one reason.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11484
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:37 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
So, your definition of “educated” is a four-year college degree, correct? Lots of uneducated swine disagree and they take the “uneducated” as an insult. I’ve been educated on any number of subjects many times over by those uneducated swine. Perhaps, Democrats should try to listen to the uneducated instead of looking down on them.

Yeah, post primary school degrees are overrated, they really are not an indication of "intelligence" anymore that the Montreal Cognitive Assessment is an absolute determinant of mental fitness.

A third of adults in the USA have undergraduate degrees and just over ten percent have an advanced degree (Masters/PhD). This number has increased over the last decades as degrees became more needed for basic advancement in companies or even to attain a job. The US probably has too many with degrees vs what is actually needed. However I do believe the college experience is in general a good thing so it may balance things out. I also believe having a degree does give you keys you can use later in life in whatever you pursue. However degrees do not confer intelligence as much as they show, to me at least when I hire, that someone can commit to a task and complete it. I seek competent people that can think, knowledge and intelligence are really a factor of time and experience and not all "educated people" can put that all together anymore than those without degrees can.

I know tons of extremely intelligent people that do not have degrees. They are thoughtful and put effort into what they do. What the think of politics and economics etc. is almost a side task, but it is fully reflective of their capabilities. Equally I know a lot of really dumb people with degrees, that don't put things together, they just do what they are told and not much else. And quite a few coast on "I have a degree!"

Tugg
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:39 pm

We have been hearing about blue collar jobs being lost in the rust belt for, well, decades.
How many more decades do they need to bootstrap themselves out of their trailer parked in meemaw's backyard?

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