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lugie
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:40 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
They grew stronger by losing seats in the House? Interesting take.
Democrats were wiped-out at state houses too..
In deep blue Rhode Island and Vermont, Democratic house speakers lost their re-election bids to Republicans.
But yeah, otherwise, that was a great response!


Yep, the "classic" democrats lost seats while the squad got re-elected.
You have to look past the obvious and see what's trending.
Pelosi and Schumer are losing ground within their party.
The question is who will take over.


And without the "classic" democrats, what can the like of "The Squad" do anyway? Absolutely nothing! Oh, and how many new progressives are elected this time around even in heavy blue district? Zero?

The Squad ultimately is just 4 out of 435 House members. To think they have that much power is a joke.


The fact that Democrats lost House seats, reducing their edge over Republicans, has actually made the Squad (and some other leftist -in the true sense, not the watered-down US version- Justice Democrats who joined their ranks, such as Jamaal Bowman) more powerful.

Easy electoral math - in the outgoing 116th Congress, Democrats had an advantage of roughly 30 votes over Republicans. This edge is likely to shrink to around +20 Dem or even less. Thus, while before mainstream Democrats could afford pushing through a bill completely against the wishes of the squad that could technically alienate up to around 25 more caucus members, they now face a solid-left block that is not only bigger in absolute numbers but more importantly, bigger and more influential relative to the size of the Dem caucus trying to advance policies.

Moreover, many of those House Democrats that lost their seats were Congresspeople who won their seats in Red districts during the 2018 House blue wave, running on moderate platforms.
Basically some of the most moderate/center-right Democrats have lost their seats, thus moving the median position of House Dems considerably to the left.

So yeah, from the perspective of the "Squad" (and everyone supporting truly leftist progressive policies), the losses Dems face in the House actually have some major silver linings.
 
rfields5421
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:44 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
Not sure if you visit social media but the support that they get there is beyond insane.


Don't know which social media you are watching, but what I see is complete and near total condemnation of AOC, the Squad, Pelosi, and Biden.

Of course, no one sees the entire spectrum of social media. The platforms are tailored to show us what people we like say.

Most of my social media contacts are family, friends from my youth, ex-military careerists, and short track auto racers. A very conservative leaning group, and a lot of Trump supporters. Mostly we agree to disagree on some things.

My ex-military counterparts tend to be the more 'left' of the groups, though like me, their left does not support Medicare for All, Defund the Police, etc.

We have real issues in this country, and BOTH political parties are more concerned with making sure the other guy does not get help if he/she needs it rather than solving problems.

Despite how this election turns out, and I'm not ready to say Biden won, yet, thought it looks highly likely.

Anyway - more Americans voted this time than every in history, and I believe the final numbers will show the highest ever percentage of eligible people voting.

That alone is a victory for the Democratic Process and the country, no matter who wins.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:45 pm

bennett123 wrote:
As for the point that Kamala Harris is making, do you really believe that someone who went to an Ivy League University has no advantage over someone who went to a normal College.

Generations of families have sent their kids to the 'best fee paying schools. They only do that for one reason.


Well that is all about networking and the people those families know and the connections they have that can get their children "good jobs" almost anywhere.

"It's not what you know, it's who you know." Is the honest reality in the world. And even if one goes to an Ivy league, there is also a need to develop those connections and to be accepted into those networks to have the full advantage. The school offers some of that but the connections and network can do more. And that is almost completely available to those that had the privilege before and in prior family generations.

That is what is hardest to overcome for those whose prior generations were specifically targeted to "NOT be favored". Those who were excluded from "polite company" due to skin color, family heritage, religion, national origin etc.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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PixelPilot
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:46 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
A lot of those "poorly-educated" are people in the rust belt who refuse to move away from home for a better future. I am so tired of hearing about coal miners losing their jobs and then refusing to do anything in terms of professional development (or moving to a more prosperous area). They want Trump to come in and save them? Talk about a nanny state! Bootstraps or something...


That is exactly what the young "educated" squad supporting blue wants.
They want the government to save them cause they can't do it themselves anymore as the open market is eating them alive.
They were nurtured to think that they are special by attending fancy schools but never thought of the fact that the more degrees on the wild the less they matter.
The cherry-picked top will do great while the rest is back to flipping burgers or mediocre desk jobs while paying heavy loan bills.

Their "better future" = heavy government influence.
How's that different?
Last edited by PixelPilot on Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:46 pm

Jon Ralston editor of the Nevada independent is now saying that with the 22'000 votes lead Nevada is won by Biden. So that is 6 more electors for Biden.

NEWS: Clark ballots are in, Biden doubles lead to 22K in Nevada.

It is over.


https://twitter.com/RalstonReports/stat ... 0621840389

Almost all of the remaining votes in Nevada are in Clark, which is heavily Dem and where Dems have won mail by 2 to 1 all along.

Latest dump was 20K to 10K. Pattern holding.


https://twitter.com/RalstonReports/stat ... 5607422978
 
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Tugger
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:56 pm

With the numbers I am seeing: https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2020/general-results
I do not see the recounts moving the numbers enough to change the election results. But the process is important. Get it done, get the results confirmed, move forward. This is how elections are supposed to work (regardless of baseless statements made by some).

Tugg
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:00 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Georgia has pending 9000+ Military ballots. Highly unlikely the vast majority will be for Biden.

As for AZ, the tendency is Trump might just become even with Biden.

This ain't over yet.



9000 were shipped to the Military, but how many will send it back? Maybe 60-70% And how big will the difference be?


Right now, Biden is ahead 1000 votes. Trump will increase his advantage there possibly higher.

As for PA, thousands of ballots received after election night, let the Supreme Court say if they are legal or not.

AZ, the tendency is towards Trump.

This will not be over yet. Yes Trump is less likely to win, but this will likely drag on.


PA most likely won't matter because the ballots received after election are separated and haven't been counted in the current totals
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:08 pm

Does Steve Kornacki sleep?
 
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zkojq
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:15 pm

Donald: You're fired.

A nice comeback:
Image

https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/statu ... 5522524162


Ok so throughout the campaign, the right moaned and moaned and moaned about Biden and "reasonable" Democrats not condemning rioting enough (despite them doing so), so I ask here: where are all the "reasonable" Republicans condemning Trump's current authoritarian behavior and making up false claims about voter fraud? Right-Wing Privilege, as ever.....

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Nice way to spin the disaster by the Democrats down ballot.

Disaster is also an understatement.

Pelosi didn't even care of coming up with a COVID relief measure that goes at least half way to the GOP's proposal. She was so sure of her winning, now she is barely being seen since the defeat that was HUGE. Schumer too.

Also considering the huge help from the fake polling, the MSM the Democrats had, the huge fundraising, this election as a whole, even if Biden win, is a HUGE loss for Democrats.

The big story here is how you can become so delusional when you believe in your own fake polls. Now you want to spin these results which look to be a TOTAL repudiation of the Democrats and the political and corporate establishment of this country.


So let me get this straight, the Democrats choose the most right-wing politician in the primaries - a guy who has spent his entire political career compromising with Republicans in the name of "bipartisanship", supplement him with a policy platform that has barely anything remotely liberal in it at all in the hope that it will convince Republicans to vote for him because "he is the most electable" and anyone else "will be labelled a socialist".....and then what happens come election time? The whole of the Right spend the entirety of the campaign calling him a socialist and Republicans vote for Donald in even greater numbers than before with Joe barely being able to eek out a win...

and then the suggested solution to this conundrum is that the Democrats should move even further to the right? :roll:

Biden has all the characteristics that the right wing should love; his crime bill put lots and lots of People Of Colour into jail and essentially created the prison-industrial complex, his grand bargain with Mitch McConnell made the Bush Tax Cuts permanent (something that even Bush couldn't even do), he was opposed to integration policies such as busing and worked alongside segregationists to achieve such ends, his loyalty to Israel was greater than that of nearly anyone in the Senate, he voted for both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, under his vice-presidency more Latinos were deported than under any other administration, he spent decades trying to cut Social Security, he voted for every single increase to the military budget, he gutted Anti-Usury laws - making it easier for Credit Card companies to rip off poor people, he wants to give more money to the police, and he wrote the bankrupcy bill which allows wealthy elites like Donald Trump to declare bankruptcy (multiple times!) and wipe away all their debts whilst the average person can't ever get rid of student debt.

All of these are policies that conservatives love. Unsurprisingly, however, when you run a Republican-Lite like Biden against a real Republican like Trump, Republican voters will - by in large - vote for the real thing.

It's hard not to think that most of the other candidates on the democratic debates would have been able to do a much better job against Trump on election day. Booker would have been able to absolutely clobber him at the polls.

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
winginit wrote:
Surely this is the stupidest man ever to hold office.


I would dispute that the stupidest man ever to hold the office as POTUS. IMO he is only the stupidest man to hold the office as POTUS so far
since theoretically there might some even stupider then Trump to hold the office as POTUS in the future. Perhaps not likely but you never know. ;)


Remember how back in the late 2000s we all thought that there'd never be a president stupider that Bush II? :rotfl:

zakuivcustom wrote:
EDIT: No, Bernie is not it either. He appeals to one group and one group only (i.e. young college students), but that's it.


Not true. I'm not a Bernie supporter but the fact is that he had more appeal to Latinos and Black voters than any other of the democrat candidates. Both are demographics that Biden struggled with.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... coalition/

https://www.univision.com/univision-new ... ision-poll

N867DA wrote:
Democrats need to double down on being--and representing themselves--as the party of labor. We should lift the ship for all--white, black, or purple while accepting there are things that make lifting some easier than others. Connect with voters like Obama.


For sure. Biden in particular was always going to struggle with this - he's a corporatist - always known as a friend of Wall Street, not necessarily labor. I think there's a lot of perceived elitism too (rightly or wrongly). Trump was particularly good at capturing the vote of labor who were disaffected with Obama era corporatism.

casinterest wrote:
All the air of the democrats is taking up by uneducated folks that label those that have other ideas as " socialist/communist/SJW radical" These are labels applied by folks that want to control others.


:checkmark: Agreed, but lets be honest, no matter who the Democratic nominee was, they were always going to be smeared with those labels, no matter what their policy platform or legislative record is. As such, you might as well chose a candidate/platform that actually has liberal stuff in there. Policies like Medicare For All polls at ~70% nationally and will be even higher amongst the Democratic base. Same with raising the minimum wage, taxing the rich etc. I voted against drug legalization a few weeks ago, but in the US that is quite popular and won on down ballot initiatives across multiple states. Arizona voted on a down-ballot initiative to raise taxes on the rich. Yet somehow the Democratic presidential nominee doesn't support any of these. Doesn't seem like that was ever going to be a winning strategy IMO.

It's hard to conclude anything other than that the Democrats would much rather court Republicans than Progressives...

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-america ... re-for-all

ssteve wrote:
The coping method is to deny reality, and declare that the numbers are wrong. Fake news!


Hillary was right.

https://twitter.com/MamaaSofia/status/1 ... 5269499910

Aaron747 wrote:
Meanwhile, Steve Bannon’s channel has been suspended on Twitter for suggesting federal bureaucrats’ ‘heads should be on pikes’ for not getting with the Trump program. Capital-C crazy.

https://twitter.com/peltzmadeline/statu ... 27618?s=21


More Right-Wing Privilege. Steve Bannon is on bail for fraud. Can you imagine if a Muslim on parole - pending trial - said that the FBI's director should have their head on a pike? They'd be arrested and locked up before they'd even finished the sentence.

Francoflier wrote:
Yep, they'll drop him like a dirty tissue. He was always just a means to an end for the GOP, a useful idiot that gained them plenty of votes. Once he's of no use to them anymore, he might find himself quite lonely.


He got them their tax cuts, he got them three new Supreme Court Justices - that's what matters.

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
It seems Fox news is no longer enough right wing for Trump voters.
Trump supporters across the United States increasingly say they no longer trust Fox News, the Rupert Murdoch-owned TV network that has acted as one of the president’s staunchest allies in past years.

As Fox News announced more state-level victories for Joe Biden on Wednesday, Trump supporters across the country grew more vocal in their frustration with the network. Some say they have shifted their allegiance to media outlets that lean even further right, such as One America News, which employs a prominent conspiracy theorist as one of its correspondents.


Well if Rupert Murdoch is done with Trump, then he really is toast. Tune into FOX on January 21st when the FOX & Friends panel is aghast at Joe Biden's suit choice - surely one of the greatest scandals in presidential history! :lol:

bgm wrote:
Anyone want to place bets that if Trump loses, he'll be on a one way flight out on Jan 20th to a country without an extradition treaty with the US? :duck:


Surely it could be before January 21st. Part of me wants this to happen purely to see how his supporters try to rationalize it. Especially if its somewhere like Russia.

Aaron747 wrote:
This is a ridiculously false statement. If you narrowed your statement to NBC or Rasmussen national polls, or maybe some battleground state polls, maybe you'd have a point, but you just said they were ALL wrong. Do you have evidence of this?

The popular vote difference in the current tally represents 5-6 points. Can you tell me what the RCP average says? That's why we have things like averages - statistics has value as a field because it works.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6247.html

You have a right to your own opinion, not your own facts. Can't change the reality of math.


I just want to know how he rationalises the polls that FOX News published which favored Biden. Was FOX complicit in the Mainstream Media conspiracy? :scratchchin:
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:27 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

So, your definition of “educated” is a four-year college degree, correct? Lots of uneducated swine disagree. I’ve been educated on any number of subjects many times over by those uneducated swine. Perhaps, Democrats should try to listen to the uneducated instead of looking down on them.


No the democrats look at those who want to learn more. Not just college educated. That may be your definition. Those that follow fox news, and right wing radio are uneducated. "You are the one that keeps calling them swine. so you can own that one. I just call out how easily manipulated they are by controlling parties.


And that attitude is why this election turned this way. Your party keeps insulting boatloads of voters and they retaliated.



Really?
BLM destroying cities, and socialists?

I think the uneducated folks always forget what lies they tell, Maybe it is a lack of conscience?
 
rfields5421
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:31 pm

zkojq wrote:
where are all the "reasonable" Republicans condemning Trump's current authoritarian behavior and making up false claims about voter fraud?


I heard a lot of them last night, from Christie who works for ABC News to McConnell https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mitch-mcconnell-sidesteps-trump-fraud-claims-backs-counting-every-legal-vote/ar-BB1aL59A

Johnathan Turley https://www.foxnews.com/politics/election-trump-legal-challenge-jonathan-turley

True their statements are relatively mild. Trump is like a rabid dog for the Republicans right now, with a potentially dangerous bite. But even those statements make clear that Trump is out of control, with baseless claims making him look worse.

Even McCarthy was not willing to support stopping all vote counting. Only those 'cast' after the polls closed. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-gop-leader-explain-trumps-call-stop-vote/story?id=74021256

zkojq wrote:
Remember how back in the late 2000s we all thought that there'd never be a president stupider that Bush II? :rotfl:


You are the first one I've seen to put it that way, but yeah, were we wrong.
 
art
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:40 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
Been saying this since forever. Third-party for the center. Both extremes can go at each other all they want.


I think that is very difficult to engineer without a voting system that allows parties with a small proportion of votes to gain representation (some form of proportional representation). For example in the 2015 UK general election the UKIP party received 13% of the votes cast but won <0.2% of the seats in parliament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Indepe ... on_results
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:51 pm

Looking good for Biden in PA.

Biden's growing lead in Pennsylvania makes it increasingly harder for Trump to catch up

From CNN's Aditi Sangal / On-air analysis by John King

Pennsylvania's latest update on ballots shows Biden is increasing his lead in the Keystone State.
"“Joe Biden is not only winning — meaning building his lead — but that lopsided advantage makes it harder and harder, more difficult by the vote count for Donald Trump to catch up,” CNN’s John King said. "

The latest update on 2,617 votes came from Bucks County, shows Biden picked up 1,732 votes and Trump picked up 853 votes. Biden got 66% of the vote in Bucks County in the latest batch.

“Every time new votes come in, you have to get more,” King said. “Almost every time new votes come in, it is Joe Biden not only getting more but getting two-thirds of the votes.”

As Biden approaches a margin of 10,000 votes over Trump in Pennsylvania, history shows that once you get to that number, it can be almost “impossible” to overturn in legal challenges or recounts, King added.



https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-n ... c29d98fb9d
 
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scbriml
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:52 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Before election night Biden was already declared winner by the MSM, based on fake polls.


What "fake polls"? Biden was widely predicted to win. He's a lot closer to winning than Trump. They were right.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Polls mean nothing now. They all were wrong.


With Biden on the brink of victory, they were right.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
The polls had a huge effect on almost everything in this country, the political discourse was skewed towards the left because of that.


Why are so many of you right-wingers so obsessed about "radical leftists"? There's no such thing in America. If you think there is, you need to travel more.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I am nonetheless happy that the "blue wave" never came, and we control the Senate and the radical leftist agenda won't come.


There was never any "radical leftist agenda". Well, except in the heads of the far right conservatives.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:54 pm

More on PA and Philadelphia voting. Officials debunks all claims of fraud and illegitimacy of the votes in PA.

Philadelphia mayor Jim Kenney said, “While some including the president continue to spew baseless claims of fraud — claims for which his team has not produced one iota of evidence — what we see in Philadelphia is democracy, pure and simple.”

The Philadelphia vote has already helped Joe Biden build a lead in Pennsylvania, and the remaining ballots are expected to bolster that lead.

Asked if he believed Biden would be elected president when all the ballots were counted, Kenney said, “Yes.”


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/liv ... f739ba5541
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:56 pm

Biden lead in PA now +12,390 as of 1255p eastern.
Last edited by ArcticSEA on Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:00 pm

Trump supporters in Pennsylvania have gone from "stop counting the votes" through "count every vote" to now "recount every vote"? Hilarious!

One thing I find sad is that now a lot of newspapers and news-media outlets have finally printed, blatantly, in their headlines that "Trump claims, falsely, that election was rigged" or similar. Why is it that they are only calling out his blatant misinformation like that in the sunset of his presidency? Are they only doing this because Twitter essentially shamed them into doing so with the way they label false/misleading tweets as misinformation?
 
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SQ22
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:16 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Biden lead in PA now +12,390 as of 1255p eastern.


Please provide a link to your source when stating facts, thanks.
 
Jetty
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:17 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Hillary Clinton called and conceded and accepted the results even though she lost by less than 80K votes across three states.

Trump launching lawsuits is what he promised before the election. He is anti American in all of his actions.

Trump will likely lose by much less than 80K votes (20K WI + maybe a few thousand in GA and AZ).

Also a concession and acceptance by a Democrat hasn’t proven worth much as they retract it just as easily to take it to the courts as proven in 2000.
Last edited by Jetty on Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Klaus
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:18 pm

Biden announcing his primetime appearance puts the pressure on Trump to go first and to explain his own position, and Biden will certainly let him if at all possible.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:24 pm

SQ22 wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Biden lead in PA now +12,390 as of 1255p eastern.


Please provide a link to your source when stating facts, thanks.

You are the only moderator who has objected to live updates of the vote count and we are days/pages into this thread. But okay.
 
winginit
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:26 pm

Jetty wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Hillary Clinton called and conceded and accepted the results even though she lost by less than 80K votes across three states.

Trump launching lawsuits is what he promised before the election. He is anti American in all of his actions.

Trump will likely lose by much less than 80K votes (20K WI + maybe a few thousand in GA and AZ).

Also a concession and acceptance by a Democrat hasn’t proven worth much as they retract it just as easily to take it to the courts as proven in 2000.


Nonsense. The NV lead will continue to expand and in the coming days we'll see the same in PA. In PA alone Biden will likely win by in excess of 80K votes based on the current trend. Either way, GA and PA are irrelevant at this point. NV and AZ have held - this election is over.

Donald Trump will lose this election 306-232, a margin that the himself called... a landslide
Last edited by winginit on Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Klaus
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:26 pm

Biden is up by 13371 in PA now (CNN live broadcast just now).
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:28 pm

Klaus wrote:
Biden is up by 13371 in PA now (CNN live broadcast just now).


https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/resul ... tional_map
 
luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:29 pm

Jetty wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Hillary Clinton called and conceded and accepted the results even though she lost by less than 80K votes across three states.

Trump launching lawsuits is what he promised before the election. He is anti American in all of his actions.

Trump will likely lose by much less than 80K votes (20K WI + maybe a few thousand in GA and AZ).

Also a concession and acceptance by a Democrat hasn’t proven worth much as they retract it just as easily to take it to the courts as proven in 2000.

He lost Michigan alone at a larger margin than he won PA + WI + MI in 2016. Math. It’s helpful.
 
astuteman
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:30 pm

Jetty wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Hillary Clinton called and conceded and accepted the results even though she lost by less than 80K votes across three states.

Trump launching lawsuits is what he promised before the election. He is anti American in all of his actions.

Trump will likely lose by much less than 80K votes (20K WI + maybe a few thousand in GA and AZ).

Also a concession and acceptance by a Democrat hasn’t proven worth much as they retract it just as easily to take it to the courts as proven in 2000.


It's not unrealistic to expect Trump to lose by 80k or more in PA alone, the way it is going..
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:43 pm

Trump now suggests election officials in Georgia are handling military ballots improperly (the GA secretary of state is a Republican). https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7939118083
 
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Exrampieyyz
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:44 pm

Just looked up quickly but as far as I can see Donny is the only president to lose popular vote twice.

But off to the courts cause thats what he does
 
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Tugger
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:46 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Trump now suggests election officials in Georgia are handling military ballots improperly (the GA secretary of state is a Republican). https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7939118083

It must be a conspiracy!! One coordinated across 4 or more states, across 4 or more completely separate election processing systems, across hundreds (thousands?) of people from all backgrounds. Truly amazing, Trump really does have enemies of awe inspiring capabilities.

Not.

Tugg
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:47 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Trump now suggests election officials in Georgia are handling military ballots improperly (the GA secretary of state is a Republican). https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7939118083



The GA secretary already announced a recount will be done per Georgia law. Plus the military ballots have until today to be received.
It would be amazing if Trump had staff competent enough to read.

While the final ballots are being counted in Georgia, the Secretary of State’s office announced that 8,900 military and overseas absentee ballots have been sent out, but not yet returned.

If those ballots are postmarked by Election Day, they can be accepted within three days of Election Day. That means military and overseas ballots have until Friday to be counted.


https://www.augustachronicle.com/news/2 ... in-georgia
 
winginit
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:48 pm

Tugger wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Trump now suggests election officials in Georgia are handling military ballots improperly (the GA secretary of state is a Republican). https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7939118083

It must be a conspiracy!! One coordinated across 4 or more states, across 4 or more completely separate election processing systems, across hundreds (thousands?) of people from all backgrounds. Truly amazing, Trump really does have enemies of awe inspiring capabilities.

Not.

Tugg


Both the Governor of Georgia and the Georgia Secretary of State were...

... endorsed by Donald Trump.
 
N867DA
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:49 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
N867DA wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

“Uneducated” is code for “I think he’s stupid and beneath me”; always a winning strategy. Thinking other people vote “against their own self-interest” is another code “they’re stupid and I know better”. Neither of these positions are smart or winning. Dems keep that up and another version of Trump will occupy the WH in 2025.


Absolutely not. Uneducated is code for not having a college degree, which is a matter of fact that is correlated to but by no means causes or certainly leads to financial success. A lot of weasel words are needed to frame the though: In general, white people without college degrees have trended toward the Republican Party in recent elections. It is not saying anyone is stupid or dumb. It is just a demographic trend. There's a sacrificial lamb that's a source of dumbass things across the political spectrum. No one was super thrilled when Hank Johnson said Guam might tip over into the sea due to overpopulation, or some of the stuff that Maxine Walters or even AOC says. There's certainly a right-wing equivalent to each of these figures.

Voting against self-interest, eh, things get dicier and it's harder to be non-partisan about this. I guess that's why we try to convince fellow voters and have elections every once in a while. I absolutely, 100%, feel the Democratic party offers a far better deal to most Americans. People are welcome to disagree, and and I may even be wrong. Or the Republicans may change up a few things, and over time they will be the better deal. Right now, neither party is for dropping a pre-existing conditions mandate on healthcare. Though it was achieved by the Democrats, it forced the GOP to change its stance, and in that way people should re-evaluate which party is superior.

Regardless, Democrats have a lot of soul searching to do to better connect with these voters.


So, your definition of “educated” is a four-year college degree, correct? Lots of uneducated swine disagree and they take the “uneducated” as an insult. I’ve been educated on any number of subjects many times over by those uneducated swine. Perhaps, Democrats should try to listen to the uneducated instead of looking down on them.


Lol. I feel like you're projecting at this point. Where did swine even come from? I literally said, "It is not saying anyone is stupid or dumb". Frankly, you're insulting people without college degrees more than even I am; I clearly don't think it has much bearing on happiness, success, or value in the political process. A college degree is not required to hold any government position as far as I am aware; that should be a huge indicator. Plenty of entrepreneurs and small business owners are self-made without any formal education. The entire point of the paragraph was to point out that Democrats [i[should[/i] pay more attention to that group because they are not doing a good job in recent years.

Of note--Biden won PA on the backs of some of the same counties that Hillary Clinton lost by a healthy margin (mostly northeastern Pennsylvania and Erie county). Those counties are nothing like Philly or Pittsburgh but still reverted to their traditional stance. Now it's up to Biden to retain them.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4037
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:49 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Trump now suggests election officials in Georgia are handling military ballots improperly (the GA secretary of state is a Republican). https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7939118083

As a native Georgian...bless his lil ole heart. He is just precious.


ArcticSEA wrote:
We have been hearing about blue collar jobs being lost in the rust belt for, well, decades.
How many more decades do they need to bootstrap themselves out of their trailer parked in meemaw's backyard?

A bit longer than inner city minorities, apparently.

casinterest wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Trump now suggests election officials in Georgia are handling military ballots improperly (the GA secretary of state is a Republican). https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7939118083



The GA secretary already announced a recount will be done per Georgia law. Plus the miltary ballots have until today to be recieved.
It would be amazing if Trump had staff competent enough to read.

While the final ballots are being counted in Georgia, the Secretary of State’s office announced that 8,900 military and overseas absentee ballots have been sent out, but not yet returned.

If those ballots are postmarked by Election Day, they can be accepted within three days of Election Day. That means military and overseas ballots have until Friday to be counted.


https://www.augustachronicle.com/news/2 ... in-georgia


I'm on the record as saying I think he still may win Georgia...

but...if he loses

Glory Glory to ole Georgia!
Glory Glory to ole Georgia!
Glory Glory to ole Georgia
And to hell with Donald Trump!

Except not really. What we've seen in the last two election cycles is a deeply unpopular candidate getting a lot of opposition voting, and rhetoric from the right at the moment is very worrisome. We have to make an effort to meet back in the middle.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11480
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:52 pm

Well I think now it is 100% safe to call this one:

Old white dude beat the old white dude and the old white dude is the next president of the United States!!
Source: every available news outlet

Woohoo!! :spin:

Tugg
 
winginit
Posts: 3073
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:55 pm

Per the Nevada Secretary of State, it's unlikely that we'll get another batch of the 150,000 outstanding votes in Nevada until this evening.

Given the margins in PA and GA, the fastest way to call this election will be via AZ and NV holding for Biden, which renders both PA and GA irrelevant. At this rate, that should happen this evening, and I imagine Joe Biden will time his address to the nation accordingly.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:58 pm

lugie wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:

Yep, the "classic" democrats lost seats while the squad got re-elected.
You have to look past the obvious and see what's trending.
Pelosi and Schumer are losing ground within their party.
The question is who will take over.


And without the "classic" democrats, what can the like of "The Squad" do anyway? Absolutely nothing! Oh, and how many new progressives are elected this time around even in heavy blue district? Zero?

The Squad ultimately is just 4 out of 435 House members. To think they have that much power is a joke.


The fact that Democrats lost House seats, reducing their edge over Republicans, has actually made the Squad (and some other leftist -in the true sense, not the watered-down US version- Justice Democrats who joined their ranks, such as Jamaal Bowman) more powerful.

Easy electoral math - in the outgoing 116th Congress, Democrats had an advantage of roughly 30 votes over Republicans. This edge is likely to shrink to around +20 Dem or even less. Thus, while before mainstream Democrats could afford pushing through a bill completely against the wishes of the squad that could technically alienate up to around 25 more caucus members, they now face a solid-left block that is not only bigger in absolute numbers but more importantly, bigger and more influential relative to the size of the Dem caucus trying to advance policies.

Moreover, many of those House Democrats that lost their seats were Congresspeople who won their seats in Red districts during the 2018 House blue wave, running on moderate platforms.
Basically some of the most moderate/center-right Democrats have lost their seats, thus moving the median position of House Dems considerably to the left.

So yeah, from the perspective of the "Squad" (and everyone supporting truly leftist progressive policies), the losses Dems face in the House actually have some major silver linings.


Nice way to spin it. The majority will probably be much lower than 20, as you mention. With luck 10.

Don't know if you are from outside the US, I have seen you post before in this forum, you seemed to be from Europe.

In any case. This election shows:

1- The US is not center left, is center right.
2- In 2018 the Democrats won on a moderate agenda, despite AOC and the squad winning, they won on districts that were solid Democrat.
3- In 2022 the Democrats will very likely lose the majority in the house and Republicans gaining seats on the senate. That always happens on the mid terms after a new president is elected.
4- Biden hasn't much of a mandate, Biden will be the first Democrat president to win the WH without having a majority in congress, for like, generations.

So I would just stop insisting on the idea that this country is open to extreme and radical leftist agendas. Because we just seen it on this election. So I would suggest you all stop dreaming that the US will be like Europe because it ain't happening. Not now at least! Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory!
 
winginit
Posts: 3073
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:02 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
In any case. This election shows:

1- The US is not center left, is center right.


That's your takeaway from literally millions more Americans voting for Joe Biden over Donald Trump? Your aggregate conclusion about where America sits on the political spectrum seems to be derived from where people live, which is of course flawed. Take a few million Californians and New Yorkers and spread them across the sunbelt and every single one of those states would turn blue. The reason for that is, of course, that the US is a center left country and has far more liberals than conservatives.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
2- In 2018 the Democrats won on a moderate agenda, despite AOC and the squad winning, they won on districts that were solid Democrat.


One might call it a center left agenda, given the country is center left. Your second point literally undercuts your first. Nice going!

AirWorthy99 wrote:
3- In 2022 the Democrats will very likely lose the majority in the house and Republicans gaining seats on the senate. That always happens on the mid terms after a new president is elected.


You of course have no idea what will happen in 2022.
Last edited by winginit on Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
N867DA
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:06 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
lugie wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:

And without the "classic" democrats, what can the like of "The Squad" do anyway? Absolutely nothing! Oh, and how many new progressives are elected this time around even in heavy blue district? Zero?

The Squad ultimately is just 4 out of 435 House members. To think they have that much power is a joke.


The fact that Democrats lost House seats, reducing their edge over Republicans, has actually made the Squad (and some other leftist -in the true sense, not the watered-down US version- Justice Democrats who joined their ranks, such as Jamaal Bowman) more powerful.

Easy electoral math - in the outgoing 116th Congress, Democrats had an advantage of roughly 30 votes over Republicans. This edge is likely to shrink to around +20 Dem or even less. Thus, while before mainstream Democrats could afford pushing through a bill completely against the wishes of the squad that could technically alienate up to around 25 more caucus members, they now face a solid-left block that is not only bigger in absolute numbers but more importantly, bigger and more influential relative to the size of the Dem caucus trying to advance policies.

Moreover, many of those House Democrats that lost their seats were Congresspeople who won their seats in Red districts during the 2018 House blue wave, running on moderate platforms.
Basically some of the most moderate/center-right Democrats have lost their seats, thus moving the median position of House Dems considerably to the left.

So yeah, from the perspective of the "Squad" (and everyone supporting truly leftist progressive policies), the losses Dems face in the House actually have some major silver linings.


Nice way to spin it. The majority will probably be much lower than 20, as you mention. With luck 10.

Don't know if you are from outside the US, I have seen you post before in this forum, you seemed to be from Europe.

In any case. This election shows:

1- The US is not center left, is center right.
2- In 2018 the Democrats won on a moderate agenda, despite AOC and the squad winning, they won on districts that were solid Democrat.
3- In 2022 the Democrats will very likely lose the majority in the house and Republicans gaining seats on the senate. That always happens on the mid terms after a new president is elected.
4- Biden hasn't much of a mandate, Biden will be the first Democrat president to win the WH without having a majority in congress, for like, generations.

So I would just stop insisting on the idea that this country is open to extreme and radical leftist agendas. Because we just seen it on this election. So I would suggest you all stop dreaming that the US will be like Europe because it ain't happening. Not now at least! Enjoy your Pyrrhic victory!


Bit by bit it will happen and there is nothing you can do about it. A Republican who says they will not support a healthcare plan that covers per-existing conditions would never win today, but that was the norm 10 years ago. Try abolishing the federal income tax today. Or undoing the EPA. Even if some religious rules are passed, dwindling church membership in America, even in rural areas, will quickly make those rules unpopular or generally ignored (remember--the law says no ice cream cones in your back pocket on Sunday!)

There will be two steps forward, one step back but the die is cast and it'll happen. All that remains to be seen is if it takes 10 years or 30.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:07 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
[...]
In any case. This election shows:
[...]


That Trump was so bad as president that he lost the election. How good was the economy during the majority of his tenure? How rabid and solid is his "base"? How large was the voter turnout this election?

He is a tremendous loser to do that.

Tugg
 
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ssteve
Posts: 1512
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:08 pm

winginit wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
In any case. This election shows:

1- The US is not center left, is center right.


That's your takeaway from literally millions more Americans voting for Joe Biden over Donald Trump?


You may be talking to a crank, but when you step back and take that phrase in isolation and benchmark versus the rest of the first world, then... he has a point.

The problem is that you are both taking US Democrats as 'left' and US GOP as 'right' when in reality the Democrats are not very far left in aggregate, and the GOP at the moment is pretty far right, on aggregate.
 
winginit
Posts: 3073
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:10 pm

ssteve wrote:
winginit wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
In any case. This election shows:

1- The US is not center left, is center right.


That's your takeaway from literally millions more Americans voting for Joe Biden over Donald Trump?


You may be talking to a crank, but when you step back and take that phrase in isolation and benchmark versus the rest of the first world, then... he has a point.

The problem is that you are both taking US Democrats as 'left' and US GOP as 'right' when in reality the Democrats are not very far left in aggregate, and the GOP at the moment is pretty far right, on aggregate.


That's a completely fair point. If we're benchmarking against other comparatively well to do countries then of course even the 'far left' in the United States more closely aligns with European moderates. Having said that, if our point of comparison is truly global that's offset by comparing against straight up authoritarian fascists.
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 371
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:12 pm

Tugger wrote:
That Trump was so bad as president that he lost the election.

Source?
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:13 pm

Area man who happens to be the highest ranking Republican in the US House states Trump won the election on election night:
https://www.businessinsider.com/kevin-m ... on-2020-11
"President Trump won this election, so everyone who's listening, do not be quiet," McCarthy said. "We cannot allow this to happen before our very eyes."

Totally normal.
Last edited by ArcticSEA on Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:14 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Trump now suggests election officials in Georgia are handling military ballots improperly (the GA secretary of state is a Republican). https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7939118083


This really keeps getting more hilarious by the hour. Man who attempted to sabotage the Postal Service is now mad that the ballots haven't arrived yet.

Anyways, I have a feeling that Trump may be in for a wild surprise once these military ballots are counted.....
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13932
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:15 pm

The one item that should scare the GOP is that they are possibly going to lose Georgia, and the Count in NC was very tight.
On top of that the DEMS did much better in Texas than in 2016. Trump beat clinton by +9%. He is only beating Biden by +6%

2024 will require a rethink in strategy.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11480
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:17 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Tugger wrote:
That Trump was so bad as president that he lost the election.

Source?

Pedant but an accurate point. It is not won or lost yet.

However:
Tugger wrote:
With the numbers I am seeing: https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2020/general-results
I do not see the recounts moving the numbers enough to change the election results. But the process is important. Get it done, get the results confirmed, move forward. This is how elections are supposed to work (regardless of baseless statements made by some).

Tugg
 
Jetty
Posts: 1394
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:17 pm

winginit wrote:
Jetty wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Hillary Clinton called and conceded and accepted the results even though she lost by less than 80K votes across three states.

Trump launching lawsuits is what he promised before the election. He is anti American in all of his actions.

Trump will likely lose by much less than 80K votes (20K WI + maybe a few thousand in GA and AZ).

Also a concession and acceptance by a Democrat hasn’t proven worth much as they retract it just as easily to take it to the courts as proven in 2000.


Nonsense. The NV lead will continue to expand and in the coming days we'll see the same in PA. In PA alone Biden will likely win by in excess of 80K votes based on the current trend. Either way, GA and PA are irrelevant at this point. NV and AZ have held - this election is over.

I didn’t say it was relevant, I didn’t mention GA or PA either. I just did the math in response to a comment that Trump had to flip more votes to win than Hillary. It simply isn’t true.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:19 pm

 
Jetty
Posts: 1394
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:21 pm

luckyone wrote:
Jetty wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Hillary Clinton called and conceded and accepted the results even though she lost by less than 80K votes across three states.

Trump launching lawsuits is what he promised before the election. He is anti American in all of his actions.

Trump will likely lose by much less than 80K votes (20K WI + maybe a few thousand in GA and AZ).

Also a concession and acceptance by a Democrat hasn’t proven worth much as they retract it just as easily to take it to the courts as proven in 2000.

He lost Michigan alone at a larger margin than he won PA + WI + MI in 2016. Math. It’s helpful.

I didn’t include PA and MI in my math because he didn’t need to win them if he won GA, WI and AZ. Logic. It’s helpful.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2267
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Re: Official Election thread

Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:22 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... 46820?icid

A state appeals court in Pennsylvania has ordered the secretary of state to notify all local election officials that they must set aside provisional ballots that were cast by voters as a way to fix problems with their mail-in ballots.

The court will later decide whether those votes can be counted. The issue is the practice of letting mail-in voters fix problems on their ballots or instead cast provisional ballots to solve the problems.

Republicans say state law doesn't allow that. Democrats say while state law doesn't explicitly provide for the practice, it doesn't prohibit it, either


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