https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/electio ... 0-54786937

Just reading the entries at 21:17 and 21:43.

If she is the White House Press Secretary, how can she then appear at the Trump campaign press conference "in a personal capacity"?.

A tweet from Andrew Neil suggests that internally Trump is admitting defeat and thinking about running again in 2024...

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/13258 ... 35106?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

NIKV69 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

NIK, who do you know has actually advocated all that and still claimed to be moderate?

Of course not the moderates in the Dem party don't get a say or get on CNN or MSNBC.

NIK, do the Republican moderates get any say on what goes onto Fox, Newmax, or OANN?

Tugg

ArcticSEA wrote:

A tweet from Andrew Neil suggests that internally Trump is admitting defeat and thinking about running again in 2024...

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/13258 ... 35106?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That would just be beautiful. Absolutely beautiful and Trump's ego is such that it's not at all out of the question. Establishment Republicans and 2022 hopefuls alike looking on in absolute horror while the stage is set for the first person to lose the popular vote... three times!

Donald.

Hey Donald.

Do it.

Personally, I see major risks with prosecuting.

1. Suppose he is acquitted, where do you go from there.

2. He could be convicted but only on a technicality.,

In either case, the 'stolen election' agenda goes into overdrive.

In the meantime, at least 25% of the first term is used up.

3. He is convicted and either sent down or pardoned, either by Pence if he resigns early or by Biden.

The damage to the United States would be enormous. We also know how he likes to go low and it would rip the country apart.

casinterest wrote:

acavpics wrote:

Has Florida become a solidly red state? In 2018, republicans won the governorship and flipped a senate seat. And just now, Trump carried the state by a much wider margin than he did in 2016.

Maybe for awhile, but I doubt it. The issues in Florida this year were that there are easily exploitable workers in tourism and travel that got absolutely hammered. Coupled with some targeted lies by the GOP, and we stand where we do now.. For how much longer? I am not sure. An economic recovery under Biden will go a long way to change those votes..

I wonder if conservatives from Georgia and Texas are moving to Florida after seeing their states being pulled leftwards. Seriously though, what on Earth made Florida want to elect a man like Ron Desantis? He clearly DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN about his people.

No offense Floridians, but despite your warm weather, theme parks, and beautiful beaches, some of you are just gullible idiots.

Ahh Look , Lawyers are concerned about Ethics or Money when it comes to Trump. I bet it comes down to Money.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/busi ... suits.html

Some senior lawyers at Jones Day, one of the country’s largest law firms, are worried that it is advancing arguments that lack evidence and may be helping Mr. Trump and his allies undermine the integrity of American elections, according to interviews with nine partners and associates, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to protect their jobs.

In recent days, Mr. Trump and his allies have been trying to raise money to bankroll their legal efforts. Some of the fund-raising entreaties have noted that a portion of donated money might be used to pay down the campaign’s existing debts, rather than to fund new legal efforts.

Is Trump's whole protest of the election a grift to raise money?

acavpics wrote:

casinterest wrote:

acavpics wrote:

Has Florida become a solidly red state? In 2018, republicans won the governorship and flipped a senate seat. And just now, Trump carried the state by a much wider margin than he did in 2016.

Maybe for awhile, but I doubt it. The issues in Florida this year were that there are easily exploitable workers in tourism and travel that got absolutely hammered. Coupled with some targeted lies by the GOP, and we stand where we do now.. For how much longer? I am not sure. An economic recovery under Biden will go a long way to change those votes..

I wonder if conservatives from Georgia and Texas are moving to Florida after seeing their states being pulled leftwards. Seriously though, what on Earth made Florida want to elect a man like Ron Desantis? He clearly DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN about his people.

No offense Floridians, but despite your warm weather, theme parks, and beautiful beaches, some of you are just gullible idiots.

Anyone moving from Georgia to Florida would do so because Georgia has a relatively high personal income tax, and that as housing in metro Atlanta continues to be not cheap, retirees will start seeing unpleasant property tax bills. And as for Floridians, I have a personal theory that people who live in places where the weather is more or less pleasant all the time get soft. There is something to be said for seasonal variance and its effects on resilience, and that maybe just maybe too much sun bleaches the brain.

Tugger wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

NIK, who do you know has actually advocated all that and still claimed to be moderate?

Of course not the moderates in the Dem party don't get a say or get on CNN or MSNBC.

NIK, do the Republican moderates get any say on what goes onto Fox, Newmax, or OANN?

Tugg

I was just about to say this. It's something funny about the Republicans in here who supported a candidate all the way on the right talking about the "far left".

luckyone wrote:

acavpics wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Maybe for awhile, but I doubt it. The issues in Florida this year were that there are easily exploitable workers in tourism and travel that got absolutely hammered. Coupled with some targeted lies by the GOP, and we stand where we do now.. For how much longer? I am not sure. An economic recovery under Biden will go a long way to change those votes..

I wonder if conservatives from Georgia and Texas are moving to Florida after seeing their states being pulled leftwards. Seriously though, what on Earth made Florida want to elect a man like Ron Desantis? He clearly DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN about his people.

No offense Floridians, but despite your warm weather, theme parks, and beautiful beaches, some of you are just gullible idiots.

Anyone moving from Georgia to Florida would do so because Georgia has a relatively high personal income tax, and that as housing in metro Atlanta continues to be not cheap, retirees will start seeing unpleasant property tax bills. And as for Floridians, I have a personal theory that people who live in places where the weather is more or less pleasant all the time get soft. There is something to be said for seasonal variance and its effects on resilience, and that maybe just maybe too much sun bleaches the brain.

I grew up in Florida. But when I went to visit college friends in the south, I learned south Florida's unofficial name. "God's waiting room" .


It is highly transient. People die, move in, move up/down. The dynamics do vary, but old religious poor people is consisitent

Even if Trump gets a pardon he still faces major financial issues. $100 million in IRS fines with no protections from a pardon should be up front in his mind. Maybe he gets to be Queen For A Day, but he has to admit EVERYTHING and I doubt if his memory would be up to that. With a Pardon he does give up his ability to claim 5th Amendment Rights, which is really going to be tough. Lie then and he can rapidly be cuffed.

Think about that. Cuffed. Perp Walk and a Mug Shot without the Wig. Ouch!

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

One thing this week has shown us—why city businesses were boarded up and who would be rioting—Biden voters, if they didn’t win. They won, they didn’t riot and neither did the Republicans who weren’t gonna anyway despite the wet dreams of Democrats.

In other election news, Biden made Dr. Ezekiel Emmanuel (he who believes we should die at age 75 Atlantic essay in 2014) as his COVID czar. So, Cuomo and other Democrat governors were doing us a favor by putting the COVID elderly back in their homes to kill off the residents. Now, Cuomo doesn’t want the vaccine distributed, so Biden can claim credit for it.

No, Dr. Ezekiel Emmanuel believes *he* doesn't want to live past 75 - and in his essay he enumerates the why of that belief very well, with some extremely good points as to why its a good goal. Because in the US, eldercare and health in Americans in their sunset years is appallingly bad and its not getting any better - if you can afford a retirement home in Florida, good for you, but the vast majority of Americans are going to rot away on basic Medicare or Medicaid in minimum wage retirement homes where they get to sit staring at a TV screen for most of the day.

Its quite a nice essay actually - so long as its not taken completely out of context by right wingers.

casinterest wrote:

luckyone wrote:

acavpics wrote:

I wonder if conservatives from Georgia and Texas are moving to Florida after seeing their states being pulled leftwards. Seriously though, what on Earth made Florida want to elect a man like Ron Desantis? He clearly DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN about his people.

No offense Floridians, but despite your warm weather, theme parks, and beautiful beaches, some of you are just gullible idiots.

Anyone moving from Georgia to Florida would do so because Georgia has a relatively high personal income tax, and that as housing in metro Atlanta continues to be not cheap, retirees will start seeing unpleasant property tax bills. And as for Floridians, I have a personal theory that people who live in places where the weather is more or less pleasant all the time get soft. There is something to be said for seasonal variance and its effects on resilience, and that maybe just maybe too much sun bleaches the brain.

I grew up in Florida. But when I went to visit college friends in the south, I learned south Florida's unofficial name. "God's waiting room" .


It is highly transient. People die, move in, move up/down. The dynamics do vary, but old religious poor people is consisitent

Most visitors never venture far from the Orlando themeparks or the fashionable parts of the coast. Venture away from those areas and the state just becomes and even muggier part of the rural South.

luckyone wrote:

casinterest wrote:

luckyone wrote:

Anyone moving from Georgia to Florida would do so because Georgia has a relatively high personal income tax, and that as housing in metro Atlanta continues to be not cheap, retirees will start seeing unpleasant property tax bills. And as for Floridians, I have a personal theory that people who live in places where the weather is more or less pleasant all the time get soft. There is something to be said for seasonal variance and its effects on resilience, and that maybe just maybe too much sun bleaches the brain.

I grew up in Florida. But when I went to visit college friends in the south, I learned south Florida's unofficial name. "God's waiting room" .


It is highly transient. People die, move in, move up/down. The dynamics do vary, but old religious poor people is consisitent

Most visitors never venture far from the Orlando themeparks or the fashionable parts of the coast. Venture away from those areas and the state just becomes and even muggier part of the rural South.

10 miles from the beaches, and outside Orlando, Gainesville, and Tallahassee , it is mostly an extension of Georgia and Alabama.

casinterest wrote:

luckyone wrote:

casinterest wrote:

I grew up in Florida. But when I went to visit college friends in the south, I learned south Florida's unofficial name. "God's waiting room" .


It is highly transient. People die, move in, move up/down. The dynamics do vary, but old religious poor people is consisitent

Most visitors never venture far from the Orlando themeparks or the fashionable parts of the coast. Venture away from those areas and the state just becomes and even muggier part of the rural South.

10 miles from the beaches, and outside Orlando, Gainesville, and Tallahassee , it is mostly an extension of Georgia and Alabama.

I don't think it will be long before we start seeing elections where Georgia and even Texas go blue while Florida is red.
The days of "winner always takes FL" are clearly over.

It is quite telling, if really not surprising, that the World's despots are the only ones which have refrained from congratulating Biden so far...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/09/worl ... index.html

Now that their buddy, or easily exploitable puppet in the White House is gone, their agenda has suddenly gotten more difficult.

luckyone wrote:

Venture away from those areas and the state just becomes and even muggier part of the rural South.

Cattle country with a history of trail drives to bring the cows to the trains to ship them to the slaughter houses - Not Texas - Florida from north of Okeechobee west toward Zolfo Spring to near Bradenton.

General agriculture, not only oranges, watermelons, much other produce - Not California - Florida near Arcadia

Strip mines - potash and other types - Florida north of Wauchula

That's just one corner of the state. And the local folks are every much as conservative rednecks as back home in Arkansas and Texas.

N867DA wrote:

I am incredibly hopeful that Biden's olive branch mindset and experience working with Mitch McConnell will help smooth things over. We may not adopt Ocasio-Cortez's platform (and probably shouldn't, right now). We just need to make politics boring again. The sooner America moves on from the cult of Donald Trump the better. I doubt Nikki Haley or Tom Cotton differ from Trump on policy but they don't bring the divisiveness as Donald.

A lot of people forget that most of the senior Senators have worked with Joe Biden, often for several years.

McConnell came to the Senate after the 1984 elections. Biden had been in the Senate for 12 years when McConnell was welcomed to the 'Club' and they served together for 24 years, then another 8 years with Biden as VP.

They have to know each other very well, what motivates the other, how to get legislation through Congress.

Unlike Trump, Congress KNOWS Joe Biden. That may be good or bad, but generally most of his fellow Senators, even Republicans, know him as a gentleman they can work with.

.

acavpics wrote:

casinterest wrote:

luckyone wrote:

Most visitors never venture far from the Orlando themeparks or the fashionable parts of the coast. Venture away from those areas and the state just becomes and even muggier part of the rural South.

10 miles from the beaches, and outside Orlando, Gainesville, and Tallahassee , it is mostly an extension of Georgia and Alabama.

I don't think it will be long before we start seeing elections where Georgia and even Texas go blue while Florida is red.
The days of "winner always takes FL" are clearly over.

And yet, I think Florida suffered a setback because Trump lied.
The pandemic is very real and the democrats as socialists is a hoax. Certain communities seem prone to believing lies, and Trump invested a lot of political capital and money in furthering those lies. He will not be there to answer for the messes going forward.

casinterest wrote:

acavpics wrote:

casinterest wrote:

10 miles from the beaches, and outside Orlando, Gainesville, and Tallahassee , it is mostly an extension of Georgia and Alabama.

I don't think it will be long before we start seeing elections where Georgia and even Texas go blue while Florida is red.
The days of "winner always takes FL" are clearly over.

And yet, I think Florida suffered a setback because Trump lied.
The pandemic is very real and the democrats as socialists is a hoax. Certain communities seem prone to believing lies, and Trump invested a lot of political capital and money in furthering those lies. He will not be there to answer for the messes going forward.

I think that was part of the reason Trump did not perform as the Republicans expected in Arizona.

We spent July and August in Arizona this summer (I know, horrible time to visit in an RV, but we have a granddaughter living with her mother near Phoenix, only chance we could see her.)

Anyway, in July the sentiment was why do we need to put up with this BS, the virus is beaten, it is going away.

By the last two weeks of August that was changing

Talked to a Republican first cousin who moved to a retirement community south of Tucson in the fall of 2019, Our last talk was in mid-October. That community and his social contacts are mostly originally out of state conservatives. The community is in shock with several deaths, serious cases of COVID, community management closed the club restaurant, and several amenities that had stayed open throughout the spring/ summer. No one is complaining. This is SERIOUS and the federal government is not doing anything to help the state.

View the governor was pressured by Trump to reopen too soon, and even more pressure to not put necessary restrictions in place in September and October.

Now, that's just one opinion, but at the end of August, he and his wife were solidly Trump voters. Don't know how they actually voted, but he was worried that if Trump was reelected, the virus would still not be a real priority.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

I am going to be upfront on this, as a conservative, I hope Biden fails as a president. Sorry if I trigger any of you but, I doubt any of you hoped Trump would have been successful neither.

If I may put the Weltanschauung of democracy in one sentence:
"I may be wrong."

Humans act on all kind of motivations. No two situations are same. There isn't a rule in economy where one can't find an exception.

I am very convinced that cheap money makes stupid investments. But the last few years these stupid investments helped to uplift the poorest of the world.

I don't like deficit spending. Reagan combined deficit spending with high interest rate. What economic school is this supposed to be? But it worked!

I believe minimum wage is harmful. But it is good in Germany, I assume because of trade deficit.

When the Green Party in Germany insisted on subsidies for solar electricity I thought they must be cracked. 50 cents or so per kWh is economic suicide. But look what happened.

If I always knew better I would aim for a power takeover. But I don't.
So let's see what new insights Biden's policies will have for us.

NYCVIE wrote:

And as a minority, I'll tell you yes African American and Latino unemployment fell during Trump's administration (as it did throughout Obama's) but throughout this crisis (which disproportionately affects those same communities) Trump has shown himself to care as little as possible. Particularly in places with high numbers of minorities (so called "blue states").

How pleasant to read a differentiated criticism of Trump.

In India Congress party has the opposite strategy. It's also a " winner takes it all" election system. Each state has at least three big parties, one of which is a regional party. Getting 35% of votes is usually enough. Since India is a mix of all kind of people Congress party tries to win by what critics call "minority appeasement".

That includes positive discrimination, e.g. reserved seats for backward castes/ tribes in schools and government employment. I like positive discrimination. However at least in one state I know such groups even get better ration rice. How is this to uplift them? It's pure votebank policy.

Sorry to say, but that is how a "winner takes it all system" works. If black people don't vote for me there is no point in helping areas with lot of black people.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

I am going to be upfront on this, as a conservative, I hope Biden fails as a president. Sorry if I trigger any of you but, I doubt any of you hoped Trump would have been successful neither.

I hope every new president succeeds, because I do not want my fellow US citizens to suffer through a truly failed Presidency.

Maybe I don't want all his hot button programs to succeed, but that is part of the process. No new President gets everything he (so far) wants, and no new President does not any part of his plans.

My disappointment with Trump is that he never learned how to make government get more efficient. If anything, he made it more inefficient. Also that he never wanted the government to be effective overall, only wanted his favorite parts to work. The rest of the government could fail as far as he was concerned (maybe he didn't, but it sure appeared that way.

Some of Trumps programs/ promises, I wanted to succeed. Several I did not. Nothing new with that.

But we are not Americans, if we do not wish our country to get better for everyone in our country.

rfields5421 wrote:

But we are not Americans, if we do not wish our country to get better for everyone in our country.

This is the wisdom that needs spreading.

Politics are not a team sport. Americans don't win when the other side loses. More often than not, both "teams" win, and the average American still loses.

Everyone has their own politics, but to wish failure on the other side before they even take office and make a single move is purely unAmerican.

Even Fox News can't stand the sewage coming from the Trump Administration about the election.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5252 ... conference

what's going on ? Some outlets are removing Arizona and Pennsylvania from blue status as Biden's winner, because Arizona, Nevada, Georgia are taking so long to deliver results? and what will happen to Michigan y Wisconsin

RainerBoeing777 wrote:

what's going on ? Some outlets are removing Arizona and Pennsylvania from blue status as Biden's winner, because Arizona, Nevada, Georgia are taking so long to deliver results? and what will happen to Michigan y Wisconsin

Which outlets? Even super conservative with its calls now ABC only has AZ, GA and NC not called. Leaving Alaska aside - what is the story with that not being called red?

RainerBoeing777 wrote:

what's going on ? Some outlets are removing Arizona and Pennsylvania from blue status as Biden's winner, because Arizona, Nevada, Georgia are taking so long to deliver results? and what will happen to Michigan y Wisconsin

Just the usual poppycock. Newsmax and others are trying to convince people there’s still a path to Trump victory. Nobody credible who respects our institutions will make such claims.

Kent350787 wrote:

Leaving Alaska aside - what is the story with that not being called red?

They deliver all their completed ballots by dogsled. Takes extra time.

casinterest wrote:

The pandemic is very real and the democrats as socialists is a hoax. Certain communities seem prone to believing lies, and Trump invested a lot of political capital and money in furthering those lies. He will not be there to answer for the messes going forward.

The Latinos, especially the ones from communist run countries are the ones who've eaten up the "Biden is a Chinese communist" bogus.Yes, I understand that they fled countries ruined by communist dictators. But even then, they are so damn gullible to believe this GOP garbage propaganda in 2020.

I don't blame the white men. I blame the Latinos (No racial offense intended).

rfields5421 wrote:

I hope every new president succeeds, because I do not want my fellow US citizens to suffer through a truly failed Presidency.[...]
But we are not Americans, if we do not wish our country to get better for everyone in our country.

Very true words. My hope is that each presidents help the nations and its people and leaves it better than when they began.

Some people just get triggered and have little faith or courage within themselves can't and so want people to fail.

Tugg

Bostrom wrote:

olle wrote:

One reflection I have is that the popular vote vs the electoral votes has a gap.

Even Hillary Clinton gained the popular vote but lost the Electoral vote.

Why do not number of electoral votes for a state better mirror its % of population?

That is a feature and not a bug. The EC was designed that way so that the smaller states would not be run over by the larger states. A bit like how the smaller European countries have more MEPs per capita than the bigger ones.

As a Swede gaining from that system I actually in favor of a one vote equal over the continent.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

as a conservative

A conservative does not cheer a president who lets the national debt balloon by $3 trillion in good economic times.

AeroVega wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

as a conservative

A conservative does not cheer a president who lets the national debt balloon by $3 trillion in good economic times.

don´t worry, the GOP will deeply care about the debt in about ten weeks.

best regards
Thomas

As is customary with the Trump administration, Trump's goons are trying to bully the judicial branch into doing the President's bidding...
A top justice department official charged with overseeing Trump's windmill tilting campaign is having none of it:

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54882647

acavpics wrote:

I don't think it will be long before we start seeing elections where Georgia and even Texas go blue while Florida is red.
The days of "winner always takes FL" are clearly over.

I agree, this is not an unlikely scenario.

I mean, look at this year's election - Trump more or less comfortably carried both Florida and Ohio which were long considered the ultimate, most swingy bellwether states, and still lost the election (by a "landslide", to use his own description for a 306EV victory in the EC )

Meanwhile, Georgia has most likely swung Democratic and, if Dems manage to repeat the energized turnout in January to clinch both Senate seat runoffs, might prove to be the single most decisive state of this election.

Texas wasn't as close as Democrats had wanted it to be this year, especially their showing in House races was rather disappointing compared to 2018 but it's a state that is now "on the map", which by itself is something that should make Republicans scared for dear life (which they likely already are given the insane ways they tried to suppress the vote this year), because once Texas falls, they're locked out of any and all paths to an Electoral College majority.

The one state that surprised (disappointed) me this year was North Carolina. I would have expected it to be a more reliable pickup for Biden than Georgia, and it should also have provided Democrats with a Senate seat given Tillis' unpopularity.
Luckily Gov. Cooper got reelected rather comfortably, but I can't for the life of me understand people who didn't vote for Cunningham because of his "sexting scandal", while at the same time voting for serial adulterer (and likely rapist) Donald Trump.

The attorney general wrote that inquiries could be made by federal prosecutors "if there are clear and apparently-credible allegations of irregularities that, if true, could potentially impact the outcome of a federal election in an individual State".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54882647

'...clear and apparently-credible allegations of irregularities...' Fair enough as the basis for investigation. Next question is: are there any such allegations? How many irregularities have been reported by those involved in running the election?

Biden's lead in GA has grown to 11,413 as per Politico's latest figures.
https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/georgia/

lugie wrote:

The one state that surprised (disappointed) me this year was North Carolina. I would have expected it to be a more reliable pickup for Biden than Georgia, and it should also have provided Democrats with a Senate seat given Tillis' unpopularity.
Luckily Gov. Cooper got reelected rather comfortably, but I can't for the life of me understand people who didn't vote for Cunningham because of his "sexting scandal", while at the same time voting for serial adulterer (and likely rapist) Donald Trump.

So are the NC vote counts over yet? I've seen that both Trump and Tillis have narrow leads (<2 pts) there. But they have been quite slow with releasing vote counts.

I never did nor will understand why otherwise intelligent people are so stubbornly dumb when it comes to politics. I would never vote Republican / Democrat etc... How about voting for the person/party best placed to deal with the issues of the day, regardless of the colour of their hat or skin or anything else, or whether your parents always voted this way or that?

In the UK I used to hear "I would never vote Conservative because of what Thatcher did to the North" or "I would never vote Labour because of what Blair did with immigration". Times change, individuals change, parties change, threats and issues of the day change.

How someone like Trump who clearly puts himself before anything else and has been directly responsible for the ridiculous spread of the Coronavirus - actively encouraging its spread (because even he isn't dumb enough to not have foreseen the outcome) can get north of 70 million people voting for him is beyond belief.

I'm just thankful that its giving the world something else to laugh at and distracts from the utter mess that is Brexit.

art wrote:

The attorney general wrote that inquiries could be made by federal prosecutors "if there are clear and apparently-credible allegations of irregularities that, if true, could potentially impact the outcome of a federal election in an individual State".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54882647

'...clear and apparently-credible allegations of irregularities...' Fair enough as the basis for investigation. Next question is: are there any such allegations? How many irregularities have been reported by those involved in running the election?

Republican elections commissioners and county staff in GA, MI, and PA are all on record saying there is no basis to these allegations. A Fox News reporter was annoyed at a question about poll watchers in PA not being allowed to see what was going on and stated it was absolutely false for the Trump campaign to suggest as he witnessed no such things. The attorney involved in Bush vs. Gore said the allegations so far are basically unfounded. So we have plenty of people on the right saying irregularities reported thus far are easily disproven or common clerical errors. Absolutely no indication of systemic fraud outside the screamsphere of Newsmax, Breitbart, and other nutcase news.

Virtual737 wrote:

How someone like Trump who clearly puts himself before anything else and has been directly responsible for the ridiculous spread of the Coronavirus - actively encouraging its spread (because even he isn't dumb enough to not have foreseen the outcome) can get north of 70 million people voting for him is beyond belief.

Agreed. I have no idea how anyone who has been in a professional occupation or even has had a bad boss can look at Trump's handling of the crisis and find things to defend. When you combine that with the general shitshow of WH drama, sudden departures, resignations, accusations against former staffers etc. - it's just a textbook case of abject mismanagement.

Well after watching the whole election saga unfold and play out, I’ve come to the conclusion that the US has become a country solely focused on politics. I’ve followed this forum for years, and from an outsiders view, the US feels like it’s on a constant cycle of elections. From here thoughts will already be Turing to the midterm elections in two years. Talk of those will start early in 2022 if you’re lucky. Then once they’re out of the way, talk will turn to who’s going to be the next republican presidential candidate. From 2023 the fighting will start, the positioning for the call, and that’s just to make it onto the potential candidates list. The 2024 will feel like 11 months of campaigning, debates and more before we’re right back on here. The US needs to step away from the political for awhile and actually focus on itself.

The other issue I see going forward, and one I just don’t see anyone tackling, is to restore trust in the media. A country can’t run if half the people don’t believe what’s being reported. IMHO putting the fairness doctrine back into the media rules, and having it cover all news channels, including cable p, would help. But there’s no way it’ll happen. There has to be some form of punishment for news channels, newspapers and other news operations broadcasting lies.

I agree, the US is stuck in a feedback loop with respect to politics.

They are already talking about who's running 2024. It has been this way for 20+ years with no end in sight. The only hope I have is that once demographic shifts begin to take more and more hold of states like Texas, the Republican Party will no longer be able to contend for national office when it comes to the Presidency. Simply put, once Texas goes Blue, it is basically mathematically impossible for the (current) GOP to win the electoral college and this will sideline the GOP to a regional party in the south and flyover states.

(Of course, we all know that once Texas goes blue, the GOP will suddenly want to do away with the EC...)

Either (1) let the GOP consume itself from within and die-out (literally) or (2) force it to reinvent itself and no longer elect insane people like Trump, Graham, Cruz, et al. It has been a race to the bottom for the GOP for many years, Trump's election (fluke) notwithstanding.

Aaron747 wrote:

Virtual737 wrote:

How someone like Trump who clearly puts himself before anything else and has been directly responsible for the ridiculous spread of the Coronavirus - actively encouraging its spread (because even he isn't dumb enough to not have foreseen the outcome) can get north of 70 million people voting for him is beyond belief.

Agreed. I have no idea how anyone who has been in a professional occupation or even has had a bad boss can look at Trump's handling of the crisis and find things to defend. When you combine that with the general shitshow of WH drama, sudden departures, resignations, accusations against former staffers etc. - it's just a textbook case of abject mismanagement.

Trump is the worst manager in history. He knows nothing, and just yells at everyone to do something. He then destroys you if you speak your mind. No self respecting person can see him as a leader unless they like abuse.

acavpics wrote:

So are the NC vote counts over yet? I've seen that both Trump and Tillis have narrow leads (<2 pts) there. But they have been quite slow with releasing vote counts.

Not fully, they will release the remainder of their vote tallies on/after Nov 12th, since mail and absentee ballots postmarked by election day have until then to arrive.

I'm not too hopeful though, since currently (as per the NYT Election page), Trump is ahead by around 1.4%pts, with Tillis' lead actually being a little bigger and supposedly already 98% percent of the estimated total vote in.

If those estimates are correct, Biden would have to win 75%+ of the remaining votes which I consider rather unlikely. Even though mail ballots have skewed overwhelmingly Democratic in some other states, I think this is a bit of a tall order.

Obviously, I would love to be proven wrong.

Just in case you have to point out to Trump Cultists how far out there the Trump Campaigns legal claims are ,you can point them to these articles.

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/10/93311241 ... at-they-ve

The problem is, Trump's campaign has spent much of the past week in court with little success, and without presenting anything close to evidence that points to a fraudulent result.

"You can't go to court, just because you don't like the vote totals," said Ohio State election law professor Ned Foley, on MSNBC over the weekend. "You have to have a legal claim, and you have to have evidence to back it up. And that's just not there."

Here's a runthrough of the litigation the Trump campaign has filed so far:

In other news since William Barr wants to interfere in US elections which are a state matter, the top elections crime prosecutor resigned.

Just remember folks there hasn't been a crime raised at the state level as of yet involving any official crime.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/09/politics ... index.html

The Justice Department's top election crimes prosecutor resigned Monday in protest after Attorney General William Barr told federal prosecutors that they should examine allegations of voting irregularities before states move to certify results in the coming weeks.

Richard Pilger, director of the elections crimes branch in the Justice Department's Public Integrity Section, told colleagues in an email that the attorney general was issuing "an important new policy abrogating the forty-year-old Non-Interference Policy for ballot fraud investigations in the period prior to elections becoming certified and uncontested." Pilger also forwarded the memo to colleagues in his resignation letter.

acavpics wrote:

So are the NC vote counts over yet? I've seen that both Trump and Tillis have narrow leads (<2 pts) there. But they have been quite slow with releasing vote counts.

No.

NC complies with the Military and Overseas Voters Act and accepts absentee ballots from those voters until ten days after the election (they should be postmarked Nov 3). I don't know if they accept other domestic absentee ballots late.

NC does not expect a 'completed' ballot count until 11-13 days after the election. Vote counting will have to finish this weekend. Maybe Monday the 16th the state will announce their final vote count.

Texas was still counting yesterday, but normally does not announce their final official vote count until close to three weeks after a major election.

Number6 wrote:

The other issue I see going forward, and one I just don’t see anyone tackling, is to restore trust in the media. A country can’t run if half the people don’t believe what’s being reported. IMHO putting the fairness doctrine back into the media rules, and having it cover all news channels, including cable p, would help. But there’s no way it’ll happen. There has to be some form of punishment for news channels, newspapers and other news operations broadcasting lies.

You are talking about rewriting the section of the first amendment on Free Speech.

FoxNews attorneys have been very careful from the start to make sure the majority of programming on Fox is officially "opinion" Things like Fox and Friends is as much news as The View. Hannity and such others are all opinion shows now news.

Secondly, the US has a long history of "Yellow Journalism" where outrageous, deliberately false is published/ distributed. Everything from the New York Times to the National Enquirer would unite in fighting imposing any standards on print publications, even though most of their income and 'readership' today comes over the internet.

Third, adding back the Fairness Doctrine would help only slightly. But that won't happen. And it would take a major revision of the concept of Free Speech to try to impose it. The purpose of the Fairness Doctrine was to ensure that the very limited airwaves did not become dominated by one opinion/ view.

Though people complain about how Fox/ Breibart/ Newsmax present distorted slanted news; there are just as many complaining about CNN/ MSNBC/ CBS/ ABC/ NBC.

I remember from the 1960's complaints about the 'Ivy League Liberals' not telling the real story of the issues that concern the people of the rest of the United States.

Murdoch realized there was a vast market out there looking for a "news media" outlet willing to tell them that they are right. In my opinion, the majority of people on Fox and other 'conservative' news outlets are just as much elitists as anyone else. They just know how to SELL the image of being one of the good ole boys (and there are good ole boy rednecks in EVERY state - I've visted 46 of the lower 48 states since 2014 - traveling in an RV.

CNN today is very different from the network was originally. It has a definite bias.

Yes, I agree it is a mess, and NO I do not think anyone will work to establish trust in the media, because NONE of the media outlets are interested in the type of journalism that people like Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, Chet Huntly, David Brinkley and such were raised and trained to apply.

Today 'news media' is about making money.

For many years the big three networks were willing to support money losing news divisions. Now, those divisions have to make money - and to compete against the rest of the 'media' for advertising revenue.

That is nothing new from the 1800's. Financially successful 'news' organizations survive and those which do not make money fail. And ever corporate office urges their news division to be careful to not PO the customers.

ALSO - what is a 'lie' being repeated? Notice how Trump is usually careful to attribute this tweets to 'I'm hearing' or 'people are saying' to anonymous sources.

I remember another anonymous source that people called a lie, and a media invention of fake news. Called Deep Throat for articles by Woodward and Bernstein.

rfields5421 wrote:

Third, adding back the Fairness Doctrine would help only slightly. But that won't happen. And it would take a major revision of the concept of Free Speech to try to impose it..

didn´t the USSC already rule on the fairness doctrine when it was still in force?

"Free Speech" doesn´t really seem to include lying ..... lying to the FBI, your bank or generally under oath isn´t protected speech either after all.

best regards
Thomas