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AeroVega
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:53 am

Biden now 5 million votes ahead in the popular vote count.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:54 am

scbriml wrote:
This will be the abiding image of the whole election - an important Trump campaign press conference in the parking lot of a garden center next to a porn shop (that's porn not pawn) and a crematorium. It got even better when Rudy Giuliani had a complete meltdown in front of confused reporters when told the election had just been called for Biden. It will go down as the gold standard of how not to do electioneering.

Image
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... y-giuliani

Manna from heaven for Twitter and meme generators. :rotfl:

:rotfl:
Reminded me of this film scene...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZDNJHl2SSE
 
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kanelui
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:05 am

Trump blamed the mistakes of the Obama administration period. His supporters enthusiastically took the votes to the polling station after opening the vote. As a result, Trump had obvious advantages in the early stage of the election, which led to Trump's misconception. Can be re-elected successfully and even start dancing. But they didn’t know that most of the sober-minded voters chose to mail theirvotes. Biden defeated Trump when the election statistics came to a close, crowd boots left nasty footprints on the round, and trump's supporter started to burn the invalid votes. Trump refused to accept failure and still refuses to move out of the White House.

He does not want to make America great again, He consider himself a great man.
 
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c933103
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:42 am

kanelui wrote:
Trump blamed the mistakes of the Obama administration period. His supporters enthusiastically took the votes to the polling station after opening the vote. As a result, Trump had obvious advantages in the early stage of the election, which led to Trump's misconception. Can be re-elected successfully and even start dancing. But they didn’t know that most of the sober-minded voters chose to mail theirvotes. Biden defeated Trump when the election statistics came to a close, crowd boots left nasty footprints on the round, and trump's supporter started to burn the invalid votes. Trump refused to accept failure and still refuses to move out of the White House.

He does not want to make America great again, He consider himself a great man.

This election have extremely high turnout yet Democrats' lead over Republican is still less than a single percentage point in many key states when many believes high turnout would help Democrats significantly. One might wonder whether higher rejection rate among mail in ballots narrowed the difference.
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vrbarreto
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:00 am

Maybe Trump fancies himself as 'President Clark'
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:03 am

vrbarreto wrote:
Maybe Trump fancies himself as 'President Clark'


(k)gosh.. please someone hide the football...

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:17 am

Biden's popular vote lead has grown to 5,067,953.
Biden +36,726 in Nevada, +12,813 in Arizona, +47,566 in PA, +146,123 in Michigan, and +12,651 in Georgia.
Pretty stunning.
https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2020/general-results
PNW-based private pilot and engineer. #fatpnw
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:40 am

Texas is going blue, and fast.
This means either Trump is an anchor on the GOP, or the GOP itself is on the way out in Texas, or a combination of both.
Once Texas goes blue, which is a possibility in 2024 and 2028, the GOP can no longer win the Presidency.
Red alert!
2008 Texas R+11.77
2012 Texas R+15.79
2016 Texas R+8.99
2020 Texas R+5.75*
*preliminary result

I'm sure that when it does, it will be because of all those "illegal votes" they have.
PNW-based private pilot and engineer. #fatpnw
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:43 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
Once Texas goes blue, which is a possibility in 2024 and 2028, the GOP can no longer win the Presidency..


that will be the moment they suddenly realize the EC is something from the past and needs to be done away with.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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scbriml
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:44 am

tommy1808 wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Once Texas goes blue, which is a possibility in 2024 and 2028, the GOP can no longer win the Presidency..


that will be the moment they suddenly realize the EC is something from the past and needs to be done away with.

best regards
Thomas


Yep. Can't win by the rules? Hey, let's change the rules!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
art
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:47 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
art wrote:
Are there no channels in the US that carry the news ie what has happened recently? If one exists I would love to know where it is so I can be informed of recent events. I prefer listening to the news and forming an opinion to listening to an opinion presented as the news.

NewsNation is a new news network that seems to be playing it straight down the middle. Three hours each evening.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/


Thanks for the pointer.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:07 am

PNW-based private pilot and engineer. #fatpnw
 
art
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:33 am

Won't all votes received be counted soon, all the querying in all states be over, all legal suits be dismissed or adjudicated?
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:37 am

art wrote:
Won't all votes received be counted soon, all the querying in all states be over, all legal suits be dismissed or adjudicated?

Trump & co. are throwing chaff, and seeing what sticks. His supporters are so delusional that they think they're going to overturn states like Michigan, which saw a Biden +100k advantage over Trump. With margins like that, it is no wonder Biden is winning states like Arizona and Georgia, of all places.
PNW-based private pilot and engineer. #fatpnw
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:41 am

Dear GOP. It is the Economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... ic-divide/

Biden-voting counties equal 70% of America’s economy.


Image
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:21 pm

art wrote:
Won't all votes received be counted soon, all the querying in all states be over, all legal suits be dismissed or adjudicated?


Technically, December 14 is the deadline. That still leaves a lot of time for the GOP to live in denial, for Trump to play the mercurial toddler and for the angry base to go deeper down their conspiracy rabbit hole...

And then there's the question of what happens after that date when all the dust has settled and Biden is inevitably declared the winner... Has anyone got money on Trump conceding peacefully?
This may yet turn ugly, especially given the frightening moves Trump has been making lately.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:41 pm

casinterest wrote:
Dear GOP. It is the Economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... ic-divide/

Biden-voting counties equal 70% of America’s economy.


Image


That is some impressive visual demography right there. Nice to see my home county in the Bay Area so prominently represented.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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zkojq
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:49 pm

Postal worker's false testimony earns him $136,000 from donors

Postal worker recanted allegations of ballot tampering, officials say
A Pennsylvania postal worker whose claims have been cited by top Republicans as potential evidence of widespread voting irregularities admitted to U.S. Postal Service investigators that he fabricated the allegations, according to three officials briefed on the investigation and a statement from a House congressional committee

Richard Hopkins’s claim that a postmaster in Erie, Pa., instructed postal workers to backdate ballots mailed after Election Day was cited by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) in a letter to the Justice Department calling for a federal investigation. Attorney General William P. Barr subsequently authorized federal prosecutors to open probes into credible allegations of voting irregularities and fraud before results are certified, a reversal of long-standing Justice Department policy.

But on Monday, Hopkins, 32, told investigators from the U.S. Postal Service’s Office of Inspector General that the allegations were not true, and he signed an affidavit recanting his claims, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe an ongoing investigation. Democrats on the House Oversight Committee tweeted late Tuesday that the “whistleblower completely RECANTED.”

Hopkins did not respond to messages from The Washington Post seeking comment through his social media accounts, family members and phone messages earlier this week. But in a YouTube video he posted Tuesday night, he denied recanting. “I’m here to say I did not recant my statements. That did not happen,” he said.

The reversal to investigators comes as Trump has refused to concede to President-elect Joe Biden (D), citing unproven allegations about widespread voter fraud in an attempt to swing the results in his favor. Republicans held up Hopkins’s claims as among the most credible because he signed an affidavit swearing that he overheard a supervisor instructing colleagues to backdate ballots mailed after Nov. 3.

Hopkins’s allegations, without his name, were first aired last week by Project Veritas, an organization that uses deceptive tactics to expose what it says is bias and corruption in the mainstream media. Hopkins agreed to attach his name to the allegations late last week. He was instantly celebrated by Trump supporters.

Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe on Saturday hailed Hopkins as “an American hero” on Twitter. A GoFundMe page created under Hopkins’s name had raised more than $136,000 by Tuesday evening, with donors praising him as a patriot and whistleblower. The fundraising page was removed by GoFundMe after this story was published Tuesday, a spokesman for the platform said.


Isn't fabricating evidence of election tampering voter fraud? There is no bottom to this barrel.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... reddit.com

Some clips that have aged badly from 2018


"Democrats have a problem conceding defeat"

"The Democrats always call it unfair when they lose"


tommy1808 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Trump's grip on the GOP is still quite impressive, I must say.
There's a room somewhere in the White House full of jars containing the testicles of many old white men.

The ability to go on live TV and lying straight through a brick wall of facts has always been a prerequisite to work for Trump, but this is getting extreme. We know for a fact that some of these people actually used to know what decency and integrity meant in their previous lives, so I'd love to know what goes on in their minds when they have to suppress that memory altogether and go make a fool of themselves on the record.


Trump is exposing the cowardice inside them for what it is.


surprise, surprise..... all the "Snowflakes" talk turned out to be pure projection......


Just like all the talk about FEMA Camps being a New World Order scheme by Obama to declare Martial Law and seize full control of the US government. Remember all the nonsense about that a few years ago? :rotfl:

bennett123 wrote:
Zkojq

How about him showing some evidence.

I could sit here all day shouting 'Elvis lives'.

Proves nothing.


https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/04/ ... chable.pdf

Francoflier wrote:
And then there's the question of what happens after that date when all the dust has settled and Biden is inevitably declared the winner... Has anyone got money on Trump conceding peacefully?


Maybe he flies to Moscow and declares himself head of the 'Government In Exile'. Maybe that's his way out to save face - not return to the US and pretend that he's some kind of political prisoner. I'm sure he could convince his supporters to
First to fly the 787-9
 
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c933103
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:58 pm

casinterest wrote:
Dear GOP. It is the Economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... ic-divide/

Biden-voting counties equal 70% of America’s economy.


Image

We all know it is rich, urban area where people are most democrat-leaning and poor, rural area where people are most republican-leaning. Pointing this fact out is not going to help reuniting the country unless you also point out a solution
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
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art
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:15 pm

zkojq wrote:
Postal worker's false testimony earns him $136,000 from donors

Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe on Saturday hailed Hopkins as “an American hero” on Twitter. A GoFundMe page created under Hopkins’s name had raised more than $136,000 by Tuesday evening, with donors praising him as a patriot and whistleblower. The fundraising page was removed by GoFundMe after this story was published Tuesday, a spokesman for the platform said.


Isn't fabricating evidence of election tampering voter fraud? There is no bottom to this barrel.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... reddit.com


Good that the false allegation was withdrawn. Is the offender nevertheless going to be allowed to profit from attempting to dishonestly subvert the election results?

Project veritas? :rotfl: I don;t think James O’Keefe knows his amo, amas, amat... too well!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:58 pm

c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Dear GOP. It is the Economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... ic-divide/

Biden-voting counties equal 70% of America’s economy.


Image

We all know it is rich, urban area where people are most democrat-leaning and poor, rural area where people are most republican-leaning. Pointing this fact out is not going to help reuniting the country unless you also point out a solution


Real solutions are difficult to discuss because most of the US entities controlling investment location and offshoring of jobs are multinational and fairly impervious to government controls. It has been so for decades.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
rfields5421
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:00 pm

art wrote:
Won't all votes received be counted soon, all the querying in all states be over, all legal suits be dismissed or adjudicated?


Maybe.

List of dates of certification for all the states

https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results_certification_dates,_2020

On Dec 14 the formal election for President and Vice President by the Electoral College

On Jan 6, 2021 the votes will be counted in Congress and the newly elected President named
Not all who wander are lost.
 
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c933103
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:04 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

We all know it is rich, urban area where people are most democrat-leaning and poor, rural area where people are most republican-leaning. Pointing this fact out is not going to help reuniting the country unless you also point out a solution


Real solutions are difficult to discuss because most of the US entities controlling investment location and offshoring of jobs are multinational and fairly impervious to government controls. It has been so for decades.

I would say, the economical divide and urban-rural divide will always exists. The question is how to bridge the ideology gap amid such divide.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:10 pm

c933103 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
We all know it is rich, urban area where people are most democrat-leaning and poor, rural area where people are most republican-leaning. Pointing this fact out is not going to help reuniting the country unless you also point out a solution


Real solutions are difficult to discuss because most of the US entities controlling investment location and offshoring of jobs are multinational and fairly impervious to government controls. It has been so for decades.

I would say, the economical divide and urban-rural divide will always exists. The question is how to bridge the ideology gap amid such divide.


Education is obviously a large factor, as are religious affiliation and other life influences. As you know, it is not possible to have national standards for civics education because local areas throughout the US control their educational programs.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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c933103
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:37 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Real solutions are difficult to discuss because most of the US entities controlling investment location and offshoring of jobs are multinational and fairly impervious to government controls. It has been so for decades.

I would say, the economical divide and urban-rural divide will always exists. The question is how to bridge the ideology gap amid such divide.


Education is obviously a large factor, as are religious affiliation and other life influences. As you know, it is not possible to have national standards for civics education because local areas throughout the US control their educational programs.

I doubt inter-state differences make much difference since the difference is largely urban-rural across state lines. Large cities in deep red states perform much closer to large cities in blue states, likewise, rural area in blue states perform much closer to area in red states than cities in their states.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:22 pm

c933103 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I would say, the economical divide and urban-rural divide will always exists. The question is how to bridge the ideology gap amid such divide.


Education is obviously a large factor, as are religious affiliation and other life influences. As you know, it is not possible to have national standards for civics education because local areas throughout the US control their educational programs.

I doubt inter-state differences make much difference since the difference is largely urban-rural across state lines. Large cities in deep red states perform much closer to large cities in blue states, likewise, rural area in blue states perform much closer to area in red states than cities in their states.


That's a good point....on that score, what would you propose?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aesma
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:23 pm

Poor people voting against their own interests isn't an easy one to solve, and you first have to want to solve it. An obvious one is campaign finance reform.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:27 pm

Aesma wrote:
Poor people voting against their own interests isn't an easy one to solve, and you first have to want to solve it. An obvious one is campaign finance reform.


Well, since no law can pass without votes being bought from GOP senators ....

Maybe someone should run on addressing the national debt by curtailing the influx of federal money to 125% of the states federal tax revenue......

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
bgm
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:29 pm

Curious as to what Trump's endgame is at this point. The margins in the swing states shared by a few posts above show that any recount isn't going to change the result.

It's pretty appalling how the scummy GOP folks are going along with this. Their own election win is fine, but the President's somehow isn't? Do they not realize how dumb that sounds?

Regardless, I'm just looking forward to one day not having to see that disgusting orange face all the media, the horrible whiny voice spouting hatred using vocabulary of a 5 year old, and the end of this disturbing cult.

Make Politics Boring Again, yes please!
Last edited by bgm on Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:29 pm

casinterest wrote:
Dear GOP. It is the Economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... ic-divide/

Biden-voting counties equal 70% of America’s economy.


Image



Great chart that supports the idea of a plutocracy in the US. So much for democracy and freedom. Abolish elections and let the wealthy decide who rules this country.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:35 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Dear GOP. It is the Economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... ic-divide/

Biden-voting counties equal 70% of America’s economy.


Image



Great chart that supports the idea of a plutocracy in the US. So much for democracy and freedom. Abolish elections and let the wealthy decide who rules this country.


To late, GOP appointed USSC judges have already taken care of that.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:36 pm

bgm wrote:
Curious as to what Trump's endgame is at this point.


Hoping to get his supporters to riot and burn enough ballots in the process?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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c933103
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:37 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Education is obviously a large factor, as are religious affiliation and other life influences. As you know, it is not possible to have national standards for civics education because local areas throughout the US control their educational programs.

I doubt inter-state differences make much difference since the difference is largely urban-rural across state lines. Large cities in deep red states perform much closer to large cities in blue states, likewise, rural area in blue states perform much closer to area in red states than cities in their states.


That's a good point....on that score, what would you propose?

As an outsider I would suggest both sides need to stop thinking their own model must be the best for the country and must consider why the other side think their models have merit as the beginning point of discussion. And instead of analyzing which one is better, the discussion must be about why other side think their alternative is better, and it is these concerns and reasons behind that should be looked at and addressed.
But there are too many problems that people feel pressed in the US now I am not sure whether anyone feel like they have the luxury to start from such fundamental
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:13 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Dear GOP. It is the Economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... ic-divide/

Biden-voting counties equal 70% of America’s economy.


Image



Great chart that supports the idea of a plutocracy in the US. So much for democracy and freedom. Abolish elections and let the wealthy decide who rules this country.


This gets to the heart of something important.

A thought exercise: let’s say there’s a manufacturer in one of the counties on the right side of that graphic. They have fought for years to keep a factory open, as its a major employer for the area. The county has given tax breaks to the company for years, as incentive to stay. Finally a new CEO comes in, and the board makes clear they want a 5% improvement in domestic costs next year because they will not increase prices for customers and lose market share. The CEO decides it is time for the plant in red county to close, because he can improve costs by 40% relocating it to Mexico.

The above is essentially a regular happening in modern American capitalism. What would you say to the CEO? How would you convince them to take action other than moving the plant somewhere cheaper? He answers to the board and shareholders, not you or me.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
alfa164
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:37 pm

art wrote:
Project veritas? :rotfl: I don;t think James O’Keefe knows his amo, amas, amat... too well!


I suspect O'Keefe knows his anal very well, though...

:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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scbriml
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:56 pm

c933103 wrote:
As an outsider I would suggest both sides need to stop thinking their own model must be the best for the country and must consider why the other side think their models have merit as the beginning point of discussion. And instead of analyzing which one is better, the discussion must be about why other side think their alternative is better, and it is these concerns and reasons behind that should be looked at and addressed.


Sound great, but is never going to happen. Mainly because politicians' main driver is ensuring they continue to ride the gravy train by getting re-elected.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:58 pm

c933103 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I doubt inter-state differences make much difference since the difference is largely urban-rural across state lines. Large cities in deep red states perform much closer to large cities in blue states, likewise, rural area in blue states perform much closer to area in red states than cities in their states.


That's a good point....on that score, what would you propose?

As an outsider I would suggest both sides need to stop thinking their own model must be the best for the country and must consider why the other side think their models have merit as the beginning point of discussion. And instead of analyzing which one is better, the discussion must be about why other side think their alternative is better, and it is these concerns and reasons behind that should be looked at and addressed.
But there are too many problems that people feel pressed in the US now I am not sure whether anyone feel like they have the luxury to start from such fundamental


Right now there is far too much allowed of the opinion figures on the Right Wing. Mostly because the people that pay attention to it, lack the education to ignore hyperbole, misdirection, propaganda, and marketing. The issue occurs on the left side as much, but because as can be seen most of the productivity skews towards Liberal markets, the message of mass calamity does not spread there.

This puts Republican politicians in a bind. Do they compromise as Democrats attempt to do, or hold out and keep making bad decisions, while blaming the left, on their constituents behalf. It keeps their constituents angry enough to keep most of them in power, but slowly they lose their markets and their messaging. The current situation with Trump shows the issue. Trump lost the election, but here he is daring Republicans to cross the lines so he can punish them as well with his power to control the message and the base.

Some sort of fairness doctrine needs to be put back in place as right now far too many Trumplicans are watching the Fox News version of the Jerry Springer show, and they think it is real.

Aaron747 wrote:

The issue is a bit more nuanced. On a lot of issues people agree. The politicians and interests have worked hard to find some dividing lines.




AirWorthy99 wrote:
casinterest wrote:



Great chart that supports the idea of a plutocracy in the US. So much for democracy and freedom. Abolish elections and let the wealthy decide who rules this country.


This gets to the heart of something important.

A thought exercise: let’s say there’s a manufacturer in one of the counties on the right side of that graphic. They have fought for years to keep a factory open, as its a major employer for the area. The county has given tax breaks to the company for years, as incentive to stay. Finally a new CEO comes in, and the board makes clear they want a 5% improvement in domestic costs next year because they will not increase prices for customers and lose market share. The CEO decides it is time for the plant in red county to close, because he can improve costs by 40% relocating it to Mexico.

The above is essentially a regular happening in modern American capitalism. What would you say to the CEO? How would you convince them to take action other than moving the plant somewhere cheaper? He answers to the board and shareholders, not you or me.

[/quote]

This is the heart of why the Red States are so angry., and why Ohio is going to slip from Democratic control eventually.

The CEO's can't keep production in the US. The cost is to high for what the majority of consumers( D&R) are willing to pay for it. So the jobs go offshore, and the Red Counties, where businesses are sparse, lose their major lifeblood. The GOP blames the CEO, but they can't provide what the businesses need in those areas. Education and Infrastructure. Those are available in the cities and large towns.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
chimborazo
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:03 pm

c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Dear GOP. It is the Economy.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-aven ... ic-divide/

Biden-voting counties equal 70% of America’s economy.


Image

We all know it is rich, urban area where people are most democrat-leaning and poor, rural area where people are most republican-leaning. Pointing this fact out is not going to help reuniting the country unless you also point out a solution



You're missing the point here. Of those 29% where the majorities voted for Trump, a lot of them did so because they are told/believe/swallowed they will be richer under Trump.
 
chimborazo
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:08 pm

scbriml wrote:
c933103 wrote:
As an outsider I would suggest both sides need to stop thinking their own model must be the best for the country and must consider why the other side think their models have merit as the beginning point of discussion. And instead of analyzing which one is better, the discussion must be about why other side think their alternative is better, and it is these concerns and reasons behind that should be looked at and addressed.


Sound great, but is never going to happen. Mainly because politicians' main driver is ensuring they continue to ride the gravy train by getting re-elected.


Well, not always. A president at the end of their second term isn't in the game to get themselves re-elected. I wonder how Trump will behave when he gets to the end of his seco.... hang on! Scratch that :lol:

Thu guy who wrote The Art of The Deal has just been on the radio here. Essentially he said Trump is a bully and a coward (As we can all see). Therefore he will hang it out as long as possible but when the legal shennanigans are over he will walk... because he is a coward.
 
chimborazo
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:14 pm

bgm wrote:
Curious as to what Trump's endgame is at this point. The margins in the swing states shared by a few posts above show that any recount isn't going to change the result.

It's pretty appalling how the scummy GOP folks are going along with this. Their own election win is fine, but the President's somehow isn't? Do they not realize how dumb that sounds?

Regardless, I'm just looking forward to one day not having to see that disgusting orange face all the media, the horrible whiny voice spouting hatred using vocabulary of a 5 year old, and the end of this disturbing cult.

Make Politics Boring Again, yes please!


50% of the "fighting money" goes towards paying off campaign finance. Rape their idiot supporters (not all but some are) for a few more bucks with no chance of actually getting the "result" changed and make money at the same time. It's actually quite impressive from a business perspective: getting "the customer" to pay for something twice.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19949
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:32 pm

chimborazo wrote:
Well, not always. A president at the end of their second term isn't in the game to get themselves re-elected. I wonder how Trump will behave when he gets to the end of his seco.... hang on! Scratch that :lol:


I was thinking more of the 'career politicians' running from the local sheriff, through mayors, judges, senators and governors. The president is a special case with the two-term limit. Maybe all elected positions should be limited by term?

This isn't just an American problem, we have political dinosaurs in the UK as well (as seen only too horribly in the Brexit saga). I think it may be somewhat worse in the US where many more levels of state are elected that aren't in the UK.

Unfortunately, I find it hard to believe Trump would walk away from the possibility of a second term and wouldn't be at all surprised to see him run again in 2024. Whether as the official Republican candidate or not.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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c933103
Posts: 5560
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:35 pm

scbriml wrote:
Sound great, but is never going to happen. Mainly because politicians' main driver is ensuring they continue to ride the gravy train by getting re-elected.

The entire society contain far more than politicians. I guess a problem in the US is that too many things have been aligned according to political parties.

casinterest wrote:
Right now there is far too much allowed of the opinion figures on the Right Wing. Mostly because the people that pay attention to it, lack the education to ignore hyperbole, misdirection, propaganda, and marketing. The issue occurs on the left side as much, but because as can be seen most of the productivity skews towards Liberal markets, the message of mass calamity does not spread there.

Can you really say the left wing of the US is "economically" liberal?

casinterest wrote:
This puts Republican politicians in a bind. Do they compromise as Democrats attempt to do, or hold out and keep making bad decisions, while blaming the left, on their constituents behalf. It keeps their constituents angry enough to keep most of them in power, but slowly they lose their markets and their messaging. The current situation with Trump shows the issue. Trump lost the election, but here he is daring Republicans to cross the lines so he can punish them as well with his power to control the message and the base.

Some sort of fairness doctrine needs to be put back in place as right now far too many Trumplicans are watching the Fox News version of the Jerry Springer show, and they think it is real.

Fairness doesn't just work one way.

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

The issue is a bit more nuanced. On a lot of issues people agree. The politicians and interests have worked hard to find some dividing lines.

This gets to the heart of something important.

A thought exercise: let’s say there’s a manufacturer in one of the counties on the right side of that graphic. They have fought for years to keep a factory open, as its a major employer for the area. The county has given tax breaks to the company for years, as incentive to stay. Finally a new CEO comes in, and the board makes clear they want a 5% improvement in domestic costs next year because they will not increase prices for customers and lose market share. The CEO decides it is time for the plant in red county to close, because he can improve costs by 40% relocating it to Mexico.

The above is essentially a regular happening in modern American capitalism. What would you say to the CEO? How would you convince them to take action other than moving the plant somewhere cheaper? He answers to the board and shareholders, not you or me.


This is the heart of why the Red States are so angry., and why Ohio is going to slip from Democratic control eventually.

The CEO's can't keep production in the US. The cost is to high for what the majority of consumers( D&R) are willing to pay for it. So the jobs go offshore, and the Red Counties, where businesses are sparse, lose their major lifeblood. The GOP blames the CEO, but they can't provide what the businesses need in those areas. Education and Infrastructure. Those are available in the cities and large towns.

Not just education and infrastructure, but also connectivity with rest of the world, ability to attract talents, and such. Many of these factors are difficult to impossible to attain outside big cities even if it is America.

chimborazo wrote:
You're missing the point here. Of those 29% where the majorities voted for Trump, a lot of them did so because they are told/believe/swallowed they will be richer under Trump.

Most of them voted other Republican on non-presidential ballots. Which mean they favor the Republican idea over the Democrats vision of America
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chimborazo
Posts: 404
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:05 pm

scbriml wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Well, not always. A president at the end of their second term isn't in the game to get themselves re-elected. I wonder how Trump will behave when he gets to the end of his seco.... hang on! Scratch that :lol:


I was thinking more of the 'career politicians' running from the local sheriff, through mayors, judges, senators and governors. The president is a special case with the two-term limit. Maybe all elected positions should be limited by term?

This isn't just an American problem, we have political dinosaurs in the UK as well (as seen only too horribly in the Brexit saga). I think it may be somewhat worse in the US where many more levels of state are elected that aren't in the UK.

Unfortunately, I find it hard to believe Trump would walk away from the possibility of a second term and wouldn't be at all surprised to see him run again in 2024. Whether as the official Republican candidate or not.



You and I are on different sides on the Brexit debate, however that's not for this thread. There is an interesting correlation though - the % aren't that far away on each side Brexit/US election (where we can only directly compare the popular vote). And yet winner takes all for Presidency is okay... but it's not in Brexit. Not directed at you particularly but it's funny how when one is the winner (and I appreciate you don't directly have a horse in the US race, except as it may ultimately have an effect on our country) it doesn't matter how close a margin is, but when one is a "loser" the fact it's close suddenly counts.

I'm a UK "small c" conservative... so basically I'd be slightly left of a democrat voter in the US :-)

The winner should get to set the rules of course... but in whatever political divide they must listen to "the other (nearly) half".
 
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seb146
Posts: 23747
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:11 pm

I have heard this point made several times in different places:

All those Republican wins are fraudulent as well since the Biden win was on the same ballot.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
mdsh00
Posts: 4058
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:15 pm

seb146 wrote:
I have heard this point made several times in different places:

All those Republican wins are fraudulent as well since the Biden win was on the same ballot.


Haven't you figured it out now that the only legitimate wins are for Republicans. They're fine with the media calling Republican wins, but if it's a Democrat, then it's fRaUd!!
 
cpd
Posts: 6773
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:37 pm

scbriml wrote:
c933103 wrote:
As an outsider I would suggest both sides need to stop thinking their own model must be the best for the country and must consider why the other side think their models have merit as the beginning point of discussion. And instead of analyzing which one is better, the discussion must be about why other side think their alternative is better, and it is these concerns and reasons behind that should be looked at and addressed.


Sound great, but is never going to happen. Mainly because politicians' main driver is ensuring they continue to ride the gravy train by getting re-elected.


That’s exactly right. But given the standards of opposition, the Democratic Party if they’d lost would have been quite okay to obstruct and block everything.

Australian conservative politician Tony Abbott said:

It’s the job of the opposition to oppose


What’s worse and what I hate is that we no longer see any great visions in politics, it is just short term wins for the 24 hour news cycle.
 
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75driver
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:02 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:51 pm

mdsh00 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I have heard this point made several times in different places:

All those Republican wins are fraudulent as well since the Biden win was on the same ballot.


Haven't you figured it out now that the only legitimate wins are for Republicans. They're fine with the media calling Republican wins, but if it's a Democrat, then it's fRaUd!!


I think that depends on what news (editorial) media you consume. The varying sources are diametrically opposite in characterizing stories.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14417
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:09 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Great chart that supports the idea of a plutocracy in the US. So much for democracy and freedom. Abolish elections and let the wealthy decide who rules this country.


This gets to the heart of something important.

A thought exercise: let’s say there’s a manufacturer in one of the counties on the right side of that graphic. They have fought for years to keep a factory open, as its a major employer for the area. The county has given tax breaks to the company for years, as incentive to stay. Finally a new CEO comes in, and the board makes clear they want a 5% improvement in domestic costs next year because they will not increase prices for customers and lose market share. The CEO decides it is time for the plant in red county to close, because he can improve costs by 40% relocating it to Mexico.

The above is essentially a regular happening in modern American capitalism. What would you say to the CEO? How would you convince them to take action other than moving the plant somewhere cheaper? He answers to the board and shareholders, not you or me.


There is no need to go that far. The GOP if the party of business, the party of money, the party of less taxes leading to more business and more jobs. Yet where the GOP has power, there is less business and less money.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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75driver
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:02 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:49 pm

casinterest wrote:
Mostly because the people that pay attention to it, lack the education to ignore hyperbole, misdirection, propaganda, and marketing.


This is the most misrepresented fallacy I see repeated. Do you not think there is somewhat of a trade off between uneducated urban voters and uneducated rural voters? I would say they might even cancel each other out. As long as Democrats continue to think it’s the uneducated masses supporting republicans there will never be civil debate on the issues when that’s your starting position. This kind of thinking needs to be banished forever.
 
bgm
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:23 pm

75driver wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mostly because the people that pay attention to it, lack the education to ignore hyperbole, misdirection, propaganda, and marketing.


This is the most misrepresented fallacy I see repeated. Do you not think there is somewhat of a trade off between uneducated urban voters and uneducated rural voters? I would say they might even cancel each other out. As long as Democrats continue to think it’s the uneducated masses supporting republicans there will never be civil debate on the issues when that’s your starting position. This kind of thinking needs to be banished forever.


Well, ask the average Trump supporter at one of his rallies why they support Trump and why they didn't vote for Biden and get back to us on that. It's not Democrats who get sucked into these wacky conspiracy theories and believe anything the orange turd says without question. As a bonus question, feel free to ask them what socialism and/or communism actually is.

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