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flipdewaf
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:25 pm

75driver wrote:
This kind of thinking needs to be banished forever.


Thought police much?


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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:31 pm

I believe that Donald Trump will be our next President.

https://everylegalvote.com/country

The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election, and that, will never happen. So stop watching the Fake News, and don’t let your heart be troubled, and live your life knowing this will all work out. And two people that were part of that decision were none other that new Supreme Court Justices, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Why do you think the Democrats tried so hard to keep them from being confirmed???

In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote.

This is where it gets good. The US House votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans, and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution, and, the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar event will take place. This is The law.
Last edited by DIRECTFLT on Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:38 pm

[quote="DIRECTFLT"][/quote]
Lol, it very much depends what is meant by all the unconstitutional votes. I know for people who support Resident Trump all postal votes are unconstitutional but maybe the law doesn’t agree. I’d most like to see a full recount to see him lose again.

Fred


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luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:43 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I believe that Donald Trump will be our next President.

https://everylegalvote.com/country

The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election, and that, will never happen. So stop watching the Fake News, and don’t let your heart be troubled, and live your life knowing this will all work out. Fun fact, they called Gore the President Elect for 30 days in 2000 until the courts ruled against him and declared George Bush the winner.

And two people that were part of that decision were none other that new Supreme Court Justices, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Why do you think the Democrats tried so hard to keep them from being confirmed???

In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote.

This is where it gets good. The US House votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans, and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution, and, the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar event will take place. This is The law.

And if your astute analysis is mistaken?
 
Newark727
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:43 pm

So where, exactly, is this "mass voter fraud" you speak of?
 
alfa164
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:59 pm

Newark727 wrote:
So where, exactly, is this "mass voter fraud" you speak of?


In someone's mind... right under the tin-foil hat...

;)
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Francoflier
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:02 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I believe that Donald Trump will be our next President.

https://everylegalvote.com/country

The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election, and that, will never happen. So stop watching the Fake News, and don’t let your heart be troubled, and live your life knowing this will all work out. And two people that were part of that decision were none other that new Supreme Court Justices, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Why do you think the Democrats tried so hard to keep them from being confirmed???

In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote.

This is where it gets good. The US House votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans, and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution, and, the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar event will take place. This is The law.


Would you care to put money on that prediction?

I'm not above profiting from ignorance to make an easy buck... Times are tough.
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FGITD
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:07 pm

Newark727 wrote:
So where, exactly, is this "mass voter fraud" you speak of?


Come on, didn’t you read? It’s the mail in ballets! It’s obviously fraud because the campaign that encouraged mail in voting got the most mail in votes.

Look no further than that USPS employee, who apparently can't determine if he witnessed fraud or not, and also maintains that this was a widespread conspiracy that somehow only he knew about
 
meecrob
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:10 pm

75driver wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mostly because the people that pay attention to it, lack the education to ignore hyperbole, misdirection, propaganda, and marketing.


This is the most misrepresented fallacy I see repeated. Do you not think there is somewhat of a trade off between uneducated urban voters and uneducated rural voters? I would say they might even cancel each other out. As long as Democrats continue to think it’s the uneducated masses supporting republicans there will never be civil debate on the issues when that’s your starting position. This kind of thinking needs to be banished forever.


I don't want to put words into casinterest's mouth, but I suspect they are referring to the lack of emphasis on education in general, as opposed to saying people of lower intelligence are more likely to support a certain party/candidate.

Lack of education is extremely important because you cannot call BS on something you are ignorant of. You have to trust whomever is relaying the information to you. I'm sure we can all agree that no matter what party they represent, its never a good idea to trust politicians blindly.

To take this one step further, if we raise everyone's intelligence level, you reduce the ability of politicians to lie.
 
luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:16 pm

FGITD wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
So where, exactly, is this "mass voter fraud" you speak of?


Come on, didn’t you read? It’s the mail in ballets! It’s obviously fraud because the campaign that encouraged mail in voting got the most mail in votes.

Look no further than that USPS employee, who apparently can't determine if he witnessed fraud or not, and also maintains that this was a widespread conspiracy that somehow only he knew about

Details are always to follow an appearance on a talk show with a cheap hack. Now they've moved on to a shadowed USPS employee in Nevada. Again, the details are being spewed forth on a talk show, where they can say whatever they want and they're not under any penalty of perjury.
 
winginit
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:18 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election, and that, will never happen.


That is, of course, nonsense. Per the constitution, the Electoral College must meet on the Monday after the second Wednesday in December of presidential election years, which is December 14, 2020. Period. Full stop. At that point the college will cast their votes and formally identify the President-elect of the United States, who will be Joe Biden.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court.


What is it exactly that is going to the Supreme Court? Case after case alleging voter fraud by the Trump campaign has been thrown aside by even lower level judges, and the Trump campaign will be lucky if any of their cases make it to the Supreme Court. Even if a few do, they won't impact enough votes to change the outcome of this election. Accept that reality.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote.


Not one single case, you know, a case that's necessary for the Supreme Court to rule on, alleges that the entire election is invalid, so you're hypothetical there is absurd.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
This is where it gets good. The US House votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans, and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution, and, the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar event will take place. This is The law.


What you have described will not happen on account of the above points, but it is genuinely fascinating that there are people who think this is even a remotely possibly outcome.

Joe Biden will win this election with 309 electoral college votes and with millions more votes than Donald Trump received. Thus, he will, of course, be inaugurated President of the United States come January of next year. The End.
 
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seb146
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:21 pm

75driver wrote:
mdsh00 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I have heard this point made several times in different places:

All those Republican wins are fraudulent as well since the Biden win was on the same ballot.


Haven't you figured it out now that the only legitimate wins are for Republicans. They're fine with the media calling Republican wins, but if it's a Democrat, then it's fRaUd!!


I think that depends on what news (editorial) media you consume. The varying sources are diametrically opposite in characterizing stories.


No outlets or other candidates are talking about "we need to recount every race because of the alleged massive fraud" but, rather, they are talking about only the presidential race. Like that one race is the only fraudulent vote but none of the other races had any fraud at all. In my mind, if one race is being called fraud, the other races down the ballot should be called fraud as well.
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seb146
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:26 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I believe that Donald Trump will be our next President.

https://everylegalvote.com/country

The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election, and that, will never happen. So stop watching the Fake News, and don’t let your heart be troubled, and live your life knowing this will all work out. And two people that were part of that decision were none other that new Supreme Court Justices, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Why do you think the Democrats tried so hard to keep them from being confirmed???

In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote.

This is where it gets good. The US House votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans, and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution, and, the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar event will take place. This is The law.


Democrats fought the nominations of those two because one was rightfully Obama's and the other, per Republicans, was Biden's.

No one in Congress, or any voter for that matter, must vote down party lines. No where but no where in our laws does it say that at all. Just because one state has a majority of Republicans does not mean the governor or the Representatives must vote Republican. Unless you can show us exactly where in the Constitution it is written.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
art
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:40 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale.


I think that evidence will be needed. How much has come to light since the election?
 
apodino
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:52 pm

seb146 wrote:
75driver wrote:
mdsh00 wrote:

Haven't you figured it out now that the only legitimate wins are for Republicans. They're fine with the media calling Republican wins, but if it's a Democrat, then it's fRaUd!!


I think that depends on what news (editorial) media you consume. The varying sources are diametrically opposite in characterizing stories.


No outlets or other candidates are talking about "we need to recount every race because of the alleged massive fraud" but, rather, they are talking about only the presidential race. Like that one race is the only fraudulent vote but none of the other races had any fraud at all. In my mind, if one race is being called fraud, the other races down the ballot should be called fraud as well.

Actually, in the MI Senate Race John James has not conceded yet because of this, as he thinks the alleged shenanigans have also affected him. Your Thesis is correct, but how much do the media outlets really care about the down ballot races, other than its a census year when redistricting will be determined by who controls which legislatures.


As for the Election itself, if there was fraud, the math to me looks like Trump still wouldn't win. The way I think Trump should play this is to concede the election, but also have the Justice Department look into the fraud stuff, and prosecute people who are responsible if it turns something up. Right now, Trump has a legal team that looks like first year law students the way they are trying to argue these cases. It has the appearance to me of "grasping at straws".
 
bennett123
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Re: Official Election thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:58 pm

According to the website quoted by DIRECTFLIGHT

Note: In some cases the latest voting data may be delayed, and as more fraud is reported and analysed the fraud numbers may continue to increase. We have a significant amount of voting data and suspected fraud examples that we have received and have yet to process, so expect regular updates. This site is not able to legally certify specific allegations of fraud, but will share the information received with those who can.

Hopefully at some point they will tell us the source of this 'evidence'.

Hopefully at some point Donald Trump will release some of this 'evidence'.

Not holding my breath.

Alternatively, if it gets to the SCOTUS they could say this is a load of BS.

Incidentally, who is behind this website.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:48 am

flipdewaf wrote:
Lol, it very much depends what is meant by all the unconstitutional votes. I know for people who support Resident Trump all postal votes are unconstitutional but maybe the law doesn’t agree. I’d most like to see a full recount to see him lose again.


Remind me, didn't Trump himself vote by post?
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Bostrom
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:04 am

chimborazo wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I was thinking more of the 'career politicians' running from the local sheriff, through mayors, judges, senators and governors. The president is a special case with the two-term limit. Maybe all elected positions should be limited by term?

This isn't just an American problem, we have political dinosaurs in the UK as well (as seen only too horribly in the Brexit saga). I think it may be somewhat worse in the US where many more levels of state are elected that aren't in the UK.



You and I are on different sides on the Brexit debate, however that's not for this thread. There is an interesting correlation though - the % aren't that far away on each side Brexit/US election (where we can only directly compare the popular vote). And yet winner takes all for Presidency is okay... but it's not in Brexit. Not directed at you particularly but it's funny how when one is the winner (and I appreciate you don't directly have a horse in the US race, except as it may ultimately have an effect on our country) it doesn't matter how close a margin is, but when one is a "loser" the fact it's close suddenly counts.


As an outsider in both the Brexit debate and the US election, I see a big difference in the two. The US presidential election is in practice a binary question, Trump or Biden? (I know there are 3rd party candidates, but they have no real chance of getting elected.) So how should you do it if not winner takes all? It doesn't make sense to say, based on the election results, that Biden gets to be president on mondays, wednesdays, fridays and sundays while Trump gets to be president on tuesdays, thursdays and saturdays.

The Brexit question how may seem binary (in or out) but in reality it is much more of a gray scale, as being out of EU can mean a close relationship like Norway or no formal relationship at all. And given the result of the election, leaving but staying close seems like a reasonable outcome. Had it been 90% in favour of leave, a harder brexit would have been a better reflection of the will of the people. On the other hand, had it been 90% reamain that could have been a sign that it was time for the UK to join Schengen and adopt the euro.
 
cpd
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:08 am

The Australian PM has congratulated Joe Biden now:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 56dz1.html

Look out for an angry rage on Twitter soon.

Interesting that the Trump camp celebrates late counting victories (in Alaska) when it goes their way, but hate it in other states when it doesn't go their way.
 
luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:13 am

cpd wrote:
The Australian PM has congratulated Joe Biden now:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 56dz1.html

Look out for an angry rage on Twitter soon.

Interesting that the Trump camp celebrates late counting victories (in Alaska) when it goes their way, but hate it in other states when it doesn't go their way.

I think “telling” is a more appropriate word. Unless you drink the Kool Aid.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:19 am

Francoflier wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
I believe that Donald Trump will be our next President.

https://everylegalvote.com/country

The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election, and that, will never happen. So stop watching the Fake News, and don’t let your heart be troubled, and live your life knowing this will all work out. And two people that were part of that decision were none other that new Supreme Court Justices, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Why do you think the Democrats tried so hard to keep them from being confirmed???

In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote.

This is where it gets good. The US House votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans, and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution, and, the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar event will take place. This is The law.


Would you care to put money on that prediction?

I'm not above profiting from ignorance to make an easy buck... Times are tough.

I'll go for $1,000.00 DIRECTFLT, that your "prediction" will not occur.What say you?

Tugg
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bgm
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:27 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I believe that Donald Trump will be our next President.

https://everylegalvote.com/country

The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election, and that, will never happen. So stop watching the Fake News, and don’t let your heart be troubled, and live your life knowing this will all work out. And two people that were part of that decision were none other that new Supreme Court Justices, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Why do you think the Democrats tried so hard to keep them from being confirmed???

In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote.

This is where it gets good. The US House votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans, and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution, and, the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar event will take place. This is The law.


:rotfl:

Thanks for that, I needed a laugh today.
 
N867DA
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:36 am

I always thought this countryt was immune to coups because there's no way people would be so partisan. Then the Cult of Trump came around. There are some non-cult people around, like Mitt Romney, Jeff Flake, or Ben Sasse. But everyone else seems to have taken something strong. They've drank the Trump Kool-aid for good.
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Kent350787
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:54 am

So, is Trump's non-concession now:

- dragging it out to keep GA engaged for the Senate run-off, or

- dragging out court cases to grift funds to make up the election campaign debts?

It's difficult to see any other logical reason.
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luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:13 am

Kent350787 wrote:
So, is Trump's non-concession now:

- dragging it out to keep GA engaged for the Senate run-off, or

- dragging out court cases to grift funds to make up the election campaign debts?

It's difficult to see any other logical reason.

They need to be careful they don’t overplay their hand. Georgia clearly has moderated and his continued behavior could push a few more voters into voting Democrat in the runoff—perhaps people who split their original ticket and voted Biden but GOP Senate. At the very least he’s giving Stacey Abrams and her crew a lot of free material.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:08 am

Kent350787 wrote:
So, is Trump's non-concession now:

- dragging it out to keep GA engaged for the Senate run-off, or

- dragging out court cases to grift funds to make up the election campaign debts?

It's difficult to see any other logical reason.


A third reason, as is speculated, would be to maintain the rigged election narrative until he's kicked out and use his 'illegitimate' loss as a way to keep stirring the base up and use it as a basis for his 2024 platform.

His strategy has always been to foster anger and division by propagating his own alternate reality and creating a personnality cult around himself. I can't see him stopping now... that's all he's got.

What's going to be interesting is whether the GOP distances itself from him after he's out or if they double down and go all in with Trump and tap his rabid fans again for 2022 & 24.
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Kent350787
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:34 am

Francoflier wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
So, is Trump's non-concession now:

- dragging it out to keep GA engaged for the Senate run-off, or

- dragging out court cases to grift funds to make up the election campaign debts?

It's difficult to see any other logical reason.


A third reason, as is speculated, would be to maintain the rigged election narrative until he's kicked out and use his 'illegitimate' loss as a way to keep stirring the base up and use it as a basis for his 2024 platform.

His strategy has always been to foster anger and division by propagating his own alternate reality and creating a personnality cult around himself. I can't see him stopping now... that's all he's got.

What's going to be interesting is whether the GOP distances itself from him after he's out or if they double down and go all in with Trump and tap his rabid fans again for 2022 & 24.


True. Which is why the Biden strategy is to work as President-elect to establish an incoming administration on the basis of what appears to be a blindingly obvious win, while waiting for legal avenues to be exhausted by Trump. There is no value for Biden with the electorate to be pushing for anything that halts the legal processes, no matter how meritless the GoP claims.
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Virtual737
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:03 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:


From that website "EveryLegalVote is a data driven approach to aggregating suspected fraud information for the 2020 US election to help preserve the integrity of our electoral process.".

So all they need to do is suspect that a vote is fraudulent to not count it? Real evidence isn't needed. Independent confirmation isn't needed. Just don't count it.

It's very telling that Trump told his supporters not to vote by mail and, even before the election, was saying that it would be fraudulent. Any candidate that states "If I don't win then it must be a fraud" is almost as crazy as those that still support him. Why didn't he try to stop the counting of mail in ballots in Arizona? Was that the only state where those ballots weren't fraudulent and it was only a coincidence that they were helping him to gain ground?

Let's not even begin to look at any lack of action regarding COVID, even worse, total misinformation (for example the anti-malaria drug that he was touting) about the same that has contributed towards 250,000 Americans losing their lives and more than 130,000 per day testing positive. That single issue should have him barred from public office permanently.
 
N867DA
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:53 am

It appears the world and America move on, even if the president cannot accept his defeat:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/11 ... -president

I suppose if there has to be a year for the outgoing president to be a child, it's this one. I doubt there will be inauguration balls and parades like normal. But it's a fair trade for competence and genuine patriotism in the White House.
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airtechy
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:26 am

In my view, about 72 million people voted for Trump because he was not afraid to loudly espouse socially unacceptable views like theirs. Over four years the dog whistles became real whistles. These people are not going to suddenly convert to be Democrats. After he either graciously or with help departs the White House, either he will continue to herd the sheep or another cult leader will take his place. I'm sure there are a lot of available people that would love to take his place .. no qualifications required .. just be a good and consistent liar and put forth plans and ideas that appeal to people who can't think for themselves. The current republicans in office have shown that they are incapable of standing up to a cult leader who appeals to their voter base. They know that if they did they would be voted out of office at the next election so they will cuddle right up to his replacement.

I have no idea how you break this cycle. Maybe a narrowing of the rich - poor gap would help.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:35 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I believe that Donald Trump will be our next President.


given that they obviously have to keep him sedated for days already he is obviously not fit to be President.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:40 am

Virtual737 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:


From that website "EveryLegalVote is a data driven approach to aggregating suspected fraud information for the 2020 US election to help preserve the integrity of our electoral process.".


well.. they are kinda honest, aside of having the current state of results wrong, they correctly list all the states Republicans try to steal with made up claims as "Fraud detected".

Here publicly claiming a crime happened that didn´t happen is a felony. Maybe the US has equivalent laws to put Trumps co-conspirators behind bars....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Virtual737
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:43 am

tommy1808 wrote:
well.. they are kinda honest, aside of having the current state of results wrong, they correctly list all the states Republicans try to steal with made up claims as "Fraud detected"..


Very good! I hadn't thought about it from that angle :)
 
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zkojq
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:50 am

As we get further and further out from election day, I'm thinking that the real story here is how the hard-right newsoephere has managed to spend a whole week bloviating about fraud despite literally no credible evidence of it whatsoever and despite the Trump campaign losing each and every one of their court cases about it. And yet seemingly the more they talk about it, the more convinced they are that it definitely happened.

art wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Postal worker's false testimony earns him $136,000 from donors

Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe on Saturday hailed Hopkins as “an American hero” on Twitter. A GoFundMe page created under Hopkins’s name had raised more than $136,000 by Tuesday evening, with donors praising him as a patriot and whistleblower. The fundraising page was removed by GoFundMe after this story was published Tuesday, a spokesman for the platform said.


Isn't fabricating evidence of election tampering voter fraud? There is no bottom to this barrel.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... reddit.com


Good that the false allegation was withdrawn. Is the offender nevertheless going to be allowed to profit from attempting to dishonestly subvert the election results?

Project veritas? :rotfl: I don;t think James O’Keefe knows his amo, amas, amat... too well!


So an update on this story. An investigation reveals that - even if the postal worker was telling the truth - it would only affect two votes. Two.

Only 2 ballots that arrived late and had Nov. 3 postmark came from Erie postal facility

A U.S. Postal Service employee in Erie, who made claims last week that his superiors were back-dating ballots that were sent after Election Day, recanted his statements in interviews with investigators, according to reports.

On Tuesday evening, the Washington Post reported that Richard Hopkins admitted to fabricating the allegations while being interviewed by Postal Service investigators in recent days. The Post cited three people briefed on the investigation and a statement on Twitter from Democrats on the House Oversight Committee. But hours later, in a video retweeted by President Donald Trump, Hopkins denied he had recanted his allegations, stating that "I'm here to say I did not recant my statements. That did not happen. That is not what happened." The video in just a few hours had received more than 1.3 million views.

Hopkins' allegations, though, were already beginning to fall apart before news broke that he had recanted his statement. The Erie Times-News on Tuesday morning reviewed 129 mail-in ballot envelopes that were postmarked Nov. 3 but arrived at the Erie County Board of Elections after Election Day. Of those 129 ballots, only two postmarked Nov. 3 were processed through the Erie facility, the Times-News discovered in its review, which was conducted in the presence of Erie County Board of Elections Chairman Carl Anderson and others.

A bulk of the ballots were processed at various locations across the state and the country, from places as far west as Tacoma, Washington, and as far south as Florida. Most were postmarked in Pittsburgh. The voters are registered in Erie County, but likely are out of the area for work, college or travel, Anderson said. The courts have ordered that all late-arriving mail-in ballots be segregated. On Monday, they also ordered that the ballots not be included in any Pennsylvania county's overall tally. The Erie County Board of Elections will remove those ballots from its count either Tuesday or in the coming days.




https://www.goerie.com/story/news/polit ... 230622002/


75driver wrote:
mdsh00 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I have heard this point made several times in different places:

All those Republican wins are fraudulent as well since the Biden win was on the same ballot.


Haven't you figured it out now that the only legitimate wins are for Republicans. They're fine with the media calling Republican wins, but if it's a Democrat, then it's fRaUd!!


I think that depends on what news (editorial) media you consume. The varying sources are diametrically opposite in characterizing stories.


So which news source says that Republican wins are fraud as well as Biden's win?

flipdewaf wrote:
75driver wrote:
This kind of thinking needs to be banished forever.


Thought police much?


Indeed and, dare I say it, wouldn't that be Cultural Marxism?

DIRECTFLT wrote:
In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale.


Most courts I know of require evidence.
First to fly the 787-9
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:52 am

zkojq wrote:
Most courts I know of require evidence.


well, i am sure you know one where evidence is not required and actively avoided: the Senate.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:03 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote..


Or they will rule that the expansion in mail in ballots was done illegally, but since voters cast their votes in good faith, they still count. Can´t invalidate a vote, just because the way of casting it turns out to be illegal after the fact.

Right now i think team Trump has lost 13 cases for zero wins, with lawyers admitting the complains are made up ....... how do you think this will even get to the Supreme Court?

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Tugger
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:05 am

Virtual737 wrote:
EveryLegalVote is

... just a social media distortion site. Specifically intended to just drum up discontent using misinformation and weak suspensions. It's not news or factual and it doesn't need to be. It's just for people who want there to be something they can point to and say "See? Here it is PROOF...." and rage on with others looking for the same. The people who look there can't tell it's fake, not true, because that's not what they are looking for or want.

Is just for building a mob that they hope will do the work for them. Who needs actual facts and proof of anything when a mob will do the trick.

The world often mocks the USA for having 50 states that each have their own way of doing things. But that is a great thing in situations like this, that independence means you have 50 separate systems that are independent and robust and can't all be manipulated. It's the best defense against fraud amd any effort to do so. While Trumpers are in denial... well trying to deny the reality, those separate systems and states are following their procedures and moving forward.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
marcelh
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:19 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I believe that Donald Trump will be our next President.

https://everylegalvote.com/country

The only way President Trump won’t be President is if he concedes the election, and that, will never happen. So stop watching the Fake News, and don’t let your heart be troubled, and live your life knowing this will all work out. And two people that were part of that decision were none other that new Supreme Court Justices, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Why do you think the Democrats tried so hard to keep them from being confirmed???

In a nutshell. This is going to the Supreme Court. Where they will rule that the election is invalid due to fraud or mistakes on a country wide scale. It will go one of two ways, either they will rule that all the unconstitutional mail in ballots will be removed and the states ordered to recount without them or they will simply rule the election is invalid due to mass voter fraud and at that point it will be sent to the congress and senate for a vote.

This is where it gets good. The US House votes on who the President will be. It has nothing to do with what party that has power. Every State gets one vote and 30 States are held by Republicans, and 19 by Democrats. They have to vote down party lines, they have no choice due to the 12th Amendment of the Constitution, and, the Senate votes for the Vice President where a similar event will take place. This is The law.

And you did also believe in the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, didn’t you?
 
94717
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:37 am

It seems to be some kind of election fraud in Texas;

People is not allowed to register for voting;

Why do not Texas want young people to vote?


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ions-youth
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:39 am

olle wrote:
Why do not Texas want young people to vote?


they tend to vote for Democrats, and for the 2020 GOP that makes their votes suspiciously illegal.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:39 am

olle wrote:
It seems to be some kind of election fraud in Texas;

People is not allowed to register for voting;

Why do not Texas want young people to vote?


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ions-youth

That means Biden get Texas right?

Fred


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seb146
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:46 am

apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
75driver wrote:

I think that depends on what news (editorial) media you consume. The varying sources are diametrically opposite in characterizing stories.


No outlets or other candidates are talking about "we need to recount every race because of the alleged massive fraud" but, rather, they are talking about only the presidential race. Like that one race is the only fraudulent vote but none of the other races had any fraud at all. In my mind, if one race is being called fraud, the other races down the ballot should be called fraud as well.

Actually, in the MI Senate Race John James has not conceded yet because of this, as he thinks the alleged shenanigans have also affected him. Your Thesis is correct, but how much do the media outlets really care about the down ballot races, other than its a census year when redistricting will be determined by who controls which legislatures.


As for the Election itself, if there was fraud, the math to me looks like Trump still wouldn't win. The way I think Trump should play this is to concede the election, but also have the Justice Department look into the fraud stuff, and prosecute people who are responsible if it turns something up. Right now, Trump has a legal team that looks like first year law students the way they are trying to argue these cases. It has the appearance to me of "grasping at straws".


So, the completely debunked conspiracy theory about voter fraud that only MAGA followers believe is the truth when there is literally zero evidence to support it? This appears to be the new narrative. Believe something that has been proven false time and again.

The big loser of this election is not used to losing when he has a failed casino, failed university, failed airline, failed hotel, failed vodka, failed steak business.......
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:51 am

Tugger wrote:
The people who look there can't tell it's fake, not true, because that's not what they are looking for or want.

Tugg

That’s the main issue I have with the Trump movement. They even don’t care if it’s true or not. Something which would be okay if it was about a Hollywood movie or Wrestling or something like this... I guess my engineering background does not help in developing a more flexible attitude when it comes to facts. :?

So when will they finish counting? It’s more than a week since election day :-/
 
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seb146
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:00 am

N14AZ wrote:
Tugger wrote:
The people who look there can't tell it's fake, not true, because that's not what they are looking for or want.

Tugg

That’s the main issue I have with the Trump movement. They even don’t care if it’s true or not. Something which would be okay if it was about a Hollywood movie or Wrestling or something like this... I guess my engineering background does not help in developing a more flexible attitude when it comes to facts. :?

So when will they finish counting? It’s more than a week since election day :-/


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/p ... fraud.html

New York Times called every state to ask how many instances of voting fraud individual states have found. The answer: Zero. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. But, yeah, let's keep suing. Stop counting. Please stop counting. Biden won. Get over it.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Virtual737
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:52 am

Tugger wrote:
The world often mocks the USA for having 50 states that each have their own way of doing things. But that is a great thing in situations like this, that independence means you have 50 separate systems that are independent and robust and can't all be manipulated. It's the best defense against fraud amd any effort to do so. While Trumpers are in denial... well trying to deny the reality, those separate systems and states are following their procedures and moving forward.
Tugg


Now that is a VERY good point you've made. Big thumbs up.
 
TSS
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:11 am

seb146 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Tugger wrote:
The people who look there can't tell it's fake, not true, because that's not what they are looking for or want.

Tugg

That’s the main issue I have with the Trump movement. They even don’t care if it’s true or not. Something which would be okay if it was about a Hollywood movie or Wrestling or something like this... I guess my engineering background does not help in developing a more flexible attitude when it comes to facts. :?

So when will they finish counting? It’s more than a week since election day :-/


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/p ... fraud.html

New York Times called every state to ask how many instances of voting fraud individual states have found. The answer: Zero. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. But, yeah, let's keep suing. Stop counting. Please stop counting. Biden won. Get over it.


So the New York Times called the voting officials in each state, the very people who would get into trouble if evidence of voter fraud was found, and asked them if there had been any voter fraud and every one, every single one in every state, said some version of "Oh golly gee no! Not a bit of voter fraud around here on my watch!"? Well, I can only compare that to asking all the owners of waste management/garbage hauling companies in New Jersey if they have any ties to or know anyone involved in organized crime- I'm sure you'd get a very similar and equally believable strong negative response from that group as well.

The fact that ALL the voting officials the New York Times contacted claimed there was "Zero. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada." voter fraud anywhere in the US should in itself raise a huge red flag. A few here or there saying "Yeah, a little bit, but we caught it" I could believe, but them claiming there was absolutely none anywhere means either A. They're not doing their jobs, or B. They're lying like cheap rugs. Seriously, hasn't it occurred to you or anyone else on the Left that voter fraud could run in either direction? I know you've never had any problem believing and sometimes unabashedly fantasizing about all the horrible things you love to accuse the Right of doing, yet when it comes to voter fraud you think Conservatives are perfect angels?
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
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Lilienthal
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:12 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I believe that Donald Trump will be our next President.

https://everylegalvote.com/country



Gotta love the "about us" tab of that website:

"This site is a labor of love by American citizens. Our Founding Sponsors: The Economic WarRoom, Allied Security Operations Group, Liberty Center for God and Country are building a coalition concerned with protecting our sacred elections from tampering and fraud.

We believe the media, certain elected officials, and other people in positions of power and control within the US, as well as in other countries, are not being open or transparent. They are attempting to install Joe Biden as president without due process of law and order."


Clearly an effort by the Trump camp to delegitimize the Biden victory by undermining the voting process.


Directfly, you need to get out of the Bubble. It's not doing you any favors. There are two option for this to play out:

(1) These fraud allegations collapse like a house of cards and you guys need to accept the fact that "the other side" won the election. It's not the end of the world. Matter of fact, for the vast majority of you, nothing will change.

(2) The Trump administration, supported by a fellowship brainwashed into thinking that there was "fraud on a countrywide scale", will ring the death knell for the United States of America as we know them.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:15 am

TSS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
That’s the main issue I have with the Trump movement. They even don’t care if it’s true or not. Something which would be okay if it was about a Hollywood movie or Wrestling or something like this... I guess my engineering background does not help in developing a more flexible attitude when it comes to facts. :?

So when will they finish counting? It’s more than a week since election day :-/


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/p ... fraud.html

New York Times called every state to ask how many instances of voting fraud individual states have found. The answer: Zero. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. But, yeah, let's keep suing. Stop counting. Please stop counting. Biden won. Get over it.


So the New York Times called the voting officials in each state, the very people who would get into trouble if evidence of voter fraud was found,


none of them would get in trouble for detecting voter fraud. That is part of their job after all.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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seahawk
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:33 am

This is so damaging to the democratic system, especially as first the Democrats talked about fraud and Russian meddling and now the Republicans talk about fraud again. So for the average citizen it seems neither side does trust the system enough to accept defeat, which very much looks like the system must be not working. If people start to believe elections are fraud, they are inclined to give up their right to vote willingly, which usually ends in an authoritarian government.
 
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Lilienthal
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Re: Official Election thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:47 am

seahawk wrote:
This is so damaging to the democratic system, especially as first the Democrats talked about fraud and Russian meddling and now the Republicans talk about fraud again. So for the average citizen it seems neither side does trust the system enough to accept defeat, which very much looks like the system must be not working. If people start to believe elections are fraud, they are inclined to give up their right to vote willingly, which usually ends in an authoritarian government.



The Russian interference in the 2016 has been thoroughly proven by multiple bipartisan investigations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_i ... _elections


The alleged voter fraud has not.

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