Dutchy wrote:

art wrote:

moo wrote:

CNN and NYT finally call Arizona for Buden.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/12/poli ... index.html


https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/12 ... iden-trump

I am sure that Trump would have won here had he shown John McCain some of the respect he was due.

Oh wouw, how does that work? Show some respect to mr. McCain and all things are fine? Does the electorate forget all the negative things that have occurred in the past 4 years? The handling of the Corona pandemic very much included in that.

Current count:

Biden 1,668,664
Trump 1,657,250

If 1% of those who would have voted Republican refused to due to the insults Trump directed at McCain, those insults cost Trump victory in AZ.

I seem to recall something along the lines of respecting those who were not taken prisoner.

Coming from someone who stayed at home.

Wonder how many voters in AZ were ex military or lost someone in Vietnam or elsewhere.

Sometimes best to keep your nasty thoughts to yourself.

cpd wrote:

That's all fake news:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... wsrc%5Etfw
2.7 MILLION VOTES WERE DELETED!!! And it's written in all capitals just to make sure we don't miss the point.

Damn, looks like I was conned by the lame-stream media yet again.

cpd wrote:

I don't suppose our Trump supporters here have clear, irrefutable proof of this?

It's in the same place as his healthcare plan.

cpd wrote:

The lawyers seem to want the money, but don't want to go themselves in trouble for Trump. The rest of the Republicans should ditch Trump, he's lost and he's going to wreck the party on his way out. Are they so naive that they cannot see this?

Well, unlike Donald's other minions, I guess the lawyers are smart enough to realise that plenty of Trump's other underlings like Papadopoulos, Flynn, Manafort, Gates and Cohen have ended up in jail as a result of doing Donnie's dirty work and it's probably not worth them ending up there too. Especially for lawyers - once you've been disbarred I think that's permanent.

casinterest wrote:

Good to sea that AZ is being called. Counts were getting close.

Trump won't care, he is working hard to turn the US into a Banana Republic and far too many Republican leaders are following along.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... -politics/

John Bolton is now making a plea to let Republican leaders to speak up against Trump to save the country and the GOP.

Wow, I think I am becoming a Bolton-fan.. who would have thought that...

N14AZ wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Good to sea that AZ is being called. Counts were getting close.

Trump won't care, he is working hard to turn the US into a Banana Republic and far too many Republican leaders are following along.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 ... -politics/

John Bolton is now making a plea to let Republican leaders to speak up against Trump to save the country and the GOP.

Wow, I think I am becoming a Bolton-fan.. who would have thought that...

How far have we sunk as a nation when John Bolton and Karl Rove are the voices of sanity and reason?

bennett123 wrote:

rfields5421

So why change the Defence Secretary at this stage?.

IMHO it was purely petty personal vengeance to fire Esper.

It is my opinion that Donald Trump is basically a junior high school bully, determined to punish all who dare to oppose him.

rfields5421 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

rfields5421

So why change the Defence Secretary at this stage?.

IMHO it was purely petty personal vengeance to fire Esper.

It is my opinion that Donald Trump is basically a junior high school bully, determined to punish all who dare to oppose him.

Of course you're right. He probably was none too pleased with that memo DOD put out reminding civilian and military staff of their obligations to remain nonpartisan in this period.

bennett123 wrote:

I seem to recall something along the lines of respecting those who were not taken prisoner.

Coming from someone who stayed at home.

Wonder how many voters in AZ were ex military or lost someone in Vietnam or elsewhere.

Sometimes best to keep your nasty thoughts to yourself.

Military people have liked Arizona as a retirement home based largely on climate for as long as I've been alive.

We stayed a week at Davis Monthan-AFB in Tucson this summer. Most of the people we saw at the base commissary were obviously retired military, like myself. Many wearing Vietnam Veteran hats.

A visit to Fort Huachuca a week later, I saw the same thing.

However, the population increases in Arizona, like Florida, tend to be older people, many retirees. Many with conservative views, and basically one of Trump's core support groups.

States such as Texas see much of their population growth coming from northern states and west coast states - working age people with families coming due to job moves and fleeing high taxes. They are often shocked upon arriving in Texas to find that while the state has no income tax on the state levels, our property taxes on their homes are among the highest in the nation. Those people tend to retain the political views despite moving to a conservative state.

The voter maps show the core Democrat counties in the five largest cities voting for Biden. What they do not show is the nearby formerly conservative counties which are not NOT secure for the Republicans, because of all the new Democratic voting transplants from the 'Left Coast' and New England. North Carolina shows the same thing happening.

However, wonder how many of those retirees either served in Vietnam or who had friends/family who did?.

rfields5421 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

rfields5421

So why change the Defence Secretary at this stage?.

IMHO it was purely petty personal vengeance to fire Esper.

It is my opinion that Donald Trump is basically a junior high school bully, determined to punish all who dare to oppose him.

Yeah but I mean... what has he done in the last four years did not allow you to reach that conclusion already?

N14AZ wrote:

Wow, I think I am becoming a Bolton-fan.. who would have thought that...

I'll never be a fan of Bolton but I can at least respect his loyalty to the nation and its institutions. People like him seem to be few and far between in the Trump version of the GOP.

casinterest wrote:

This is in a nutshell the biggest issue with the GOP. They pretend Businesses are people, and they ignore the needs to the people .

Businesses are people they are just successful and that is something the Democratic party hates because they have to sell the fantasy that people that aren't successful are being oppressed which is complete garbage.

tommy1808 wrote:

Clinton conceded on the next day, and the media called Trump president elect.There is nothing comparable going on.

The only consistent claim of fraud in 2016 came from the GOP.

best regards
Thomas

Hillary conceded on election night but was too fragile mentally to address her supporters so she sent Podesta out to give some speech that made no sense.

mdsh00 wrote:

How far have we sunk as a nation when John Bolton and Karl Rove are the voices of sanity and reason?

They really aren't actually they are just trying to remain relevent since they have been nobodies for awhile. Once we get back into another election cycle you will be back to calling them extreme and other names.

NIKV69 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

This is in a nutshell the biggest issue with the GOP. They pretend Businesses are people, and they ignore the needs to the people .

Businesses are people they are just successful and that is something the Democratic party hates because they have to sell the fantasy that people that aren't successful are being oppressed which is complete garbage.

tommy1808 wrote:

Clinton conceded on the next day, and the media called Trump president elect.There is nothing comparable going on.

The only consistent claim of fraud in 2016 came from the GOP.

best regards
Thomas

Hillary conceded on election night but was too fragile mentally to address her supporters so she sent Podesta out to give some speech that made no sense.

mdsh00 wrote:

How far have we sunk as a nation when John Bolton and Karl Rove are the voices of sanity and reason?

They really aren't actually they are just trying to remain relevent since they have been nobodies for awhile. Once we get back into another election cycle you will be back to calling them extreme and other names.

- Here is Clinton's complete concession speech, where she personally addresses her supporters multiple times
https://www.vox.com/2016/11/9/13570328/ ... l-election

- Karl Rove and John Bolton are terrible people ideologically but they are on the right side here. Stopped clocked, twice a day, etc. Rove still consults with the Trump campaign informally, and Bolton served policy-making roles as recently as 2019 so I am unsure how they are irrelevant.

Look, we waited months for the fat lady to sing and she's sung loud and clear. Any further exercise to sow doubt into the vote is because the President is a man-child that can't accept he is a crappy ruler that people rejected. Maybe its his policy, more likely it's his personality. But either way, he's been shown the door and he needs to politely collect his crap and let adults of either party run the country.

What is the view of the US aviation industry when coming to having a preference between the two political sides? How do the policies of the respective parties favour or work against the industry?

N867DA wrote:

- Here is Clinton's complete concession speech, where she personally addresses her supporters multiple times
https://www.vox.com/2016/11/9/13570328/ ... l-election

- Karl Rove and John Bolton are terrible people ideologically but they are on the right side here. Stopped clocked, twice a day, etc. Rove still consults with the Trump campaign informally, and Bolton served policy-making roles as recently as 2019 so I am unsure how they are irrelevant.

Look, we waited months for the fat lady to sing and she's sung loud and clear. Any further exercise to sow doubt into the vote is because the President is a man-child that can't accept he is a crappy ruler that people rejected. Maybe its his policy, more likely it's his personality. But either way, he's been shown the door and he needs to politely collect his crap and let adults of either party run the country.

Hillary called Trump on election night to concede. The speech was made the next day.

As for the rest of your post Stacy Abrams did the same thing Trump is doing now and you all celebrated her. You can say the same thing about Abrams you are saying about Trump but since she has a D next to her name all of a sudden she was wronged and is right for not conceding right away. It gets old.

In my mind two things should be:
1.) Recounts and process reviews should be fine and really no one should have a problem with it. I know I don't, I am confident in our election process and any recounts will change nothing of consequence. Reviews are par for the course.
2.) Hot air powered bloviating about fraud is utterly unnecessary and demeaning and damaging to the people and the nation. There is no reason for it, just follow the recount process. And where you feel you need to, make your case soundly and clearly. Let the facts speak.

Of course the very reason I do not and did not support Trump (he has been and is a very poor president) is that he lives on inflaming statements. He loves to "punch and punch back" (one of the things his followers love about him), he wants to make something bigger than it is and creates chaos to cloud things a bit and hopefully affect things to his favor. He sees creating doubt in the USA as a good path for him to gain victory where there otherwise may not be.

That the vast majority of press and media outlets have "called" the election, is nothing bad or nefarious. It is just like looking up ad seeing a plane and saying "oh look, a plane". The reality will be proven out and though someone may question what kind of plane it is or where it is going, it starts getting weird when someone starts to say "that's not a plane...." It appears obvious, so it is called (there's duck quotes that work here too), but the reality of what lands will prove things out. There is no issue here.

Our nation has a strong and robust election process and system. It has been tested for two hundred years and thousands of elections. It will be tested and checked and reviewed many hundreds of times over in the coming years. It has 50 (plus) separate election processes and oversight systems. When problems arose in the past they were addressed, and that will continue.

Tugg

NIKV69 wrote:

N867DA wrote:

- Here is Clinton's complete concession speech, where she personally addresses her supporters multiple times
https://www.vox.com/2016/11/9/13570328/ ... l-election

- Karl Rove and John Bolton are terrible people ideologically but they are on the right side here. Stopped clocked, twice a day, etc. Rove still consults with the Trump campaign informally, and Bolton served policy-making roles as recently as 2019 so I am unsure how they are irrelevant.

Look, we waited months for the fat lady to sing and she's sung loud and clear. Any further exercise to sow doubt into the vote is because the President is a man-child that can't accept he is a crappy ruler that people rejected. Maybe its his policy, more likely it's his personality. But either way, he's been shown the door and he needs to politely collect his crap and let adults of either party run the country.

Hillary called Trump on election night to concede. The speech was made the next day.

As for the rest of your post Stacy Abrams did the same thing Trump is doing now and you all celebrated her. You can say the same thing about Abrams you are saying about Trump but since she has a D next to her name all of a sudden she was wronged and is right for not conceding right away. It gets old.

She conceded. Has Trump?

Latest Trump tweet is a real whopper.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 9319432200

For years the Dems have been preaching how unsafe and rigged our elections have been. Now they are saying what a wonderful job the Trump Administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually this is true, except for what the Democrats did. Rigged Election!

2020 was the most secure election ever, except for the part where the Democrats rigged it! Ought to be next to "cognitive dissonance" in the dictionary. Why are people still making excuses for this guy again?

bgm wrote:

She conceded. Has Trump?

Hillary trusted the election process. And she had been on the losing side of elections - though the first was when Bill lost the governorship in Arkansas. Losing the Democratic Primaries to Obama may have been personally more difficult to accept than losing the election to Trump. Also losing in 2016, was expected. The Democrats saw the trends and knew the chance of victory was very small, especially after Comey's last minute 'surprise'.

Trump has never lost an election. He does not trust the process. And apparently he refuses to believe that losing a fair election is possible. Nothing unexpected or unusual. We all knew he was that way.

Now re:

"Calling" a state or the election winner - that is nothing but a guess/ a prediction. A marketing tool for a news organization to say we are better than the other guys. It has nothing to do with the real election, but each organization wants to be the first with the 'news'. True people have the false belief that is is important. There is an effect when the polls are open and news organizations call a race as decided based upon their polling. We know from the evidence that voters whose votes might have changed the election stay home and don't bother. Personally, I wish there was a nation wide poll closing time - where all the polls from Maine to Washington closed at the same time. But that will never happen.

Concession of an election is a nice gesture. Not necessary. Just being polite. Again, Hillary knows the process. Trump doesn't. And when has Donald Trump ever admitted defeat. Is anyone surprised that he had not conceded?

We should have learned the lesson that Concession Speeches or calls are useless in 2000. I heard many people say that because Gore called Bush to concede, he did not have a right to recounts, etc.

Bull. A concession is not saying the election is over. The candidate does not have the right to say all those votes are not worth counting. Even a candidate who died close to election day, the votes for him/ her are valid.

Get over it. Trump will not admit he lost the election until the Electoral Votes are cast, maybe not then. No matter what anyone says.

Biden's new administration will be delayed, but once the states start to certify their results, the rest of the US government will start to work with him and his people as President elect. No matter what Trump does or orders his die-hard followers to do.

rfields5421 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

rfields5421

So why change the Defence Secretary at this stage?.

IMHO it was purely petty personal vengeance to fire Esper.

It is my opinion that Donald Trump is basically a junior high school bully, determined to punish all who dare to oppose him.

I disagree - he's a kindergarten bully. Kids in junior high are more mature than the Donald.

And of course the Trump campaign does not really respect military service members:

Still, lawyers from Trump’s campaign sent a letter to Barr alleging they had uncovered what they described as “criminal voter fraud” in Nevada and saying they had identified 3,062 people who “improperly” cast mail ballots in Clark County, a Democrat-heavy area that includes Las Vegas and about 75% of the state’s population.

Those people were identified by “cross-referencing the names and addresses of voters with the National Change of Address database,” according to the letter.
[...]
But voting rights activists say hundreds of people on the list appear to be linked to the U.S. military. The American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada, which is doing election protection work, found 157 voters who listed a military base post office, according to staff attorney Nikki Levy, meaning they likely voted legally under added protections in federal law allowing absentee voting for military members and their families.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/ne ... raud-claim

I mean who cares if you accuse and work to make the public at large think votes are fraudulent, as long as it furthers your agenda to sow doubt? Why bother to do some basic review, just make the accusation.

Tugg

casinterest wrote:

What time was Trump Projected to win? What time was the call? What time was Hillary's speech. ?

Here is a clue, they were all within 7 hours of each other.

What are you going on about? My post was to correct an incorrect post that Hillary conceded the next day when she in fact conceded the night o f the election. Stop dragging me into your anti Trump hysteria. It's his right to not concede just at it was Abrams. Yet you applaud her and hate him. Bias much?

winginit wrote:

A candidate can do whatever she or he pleases. You are bringing in the media into this for some strange reason. Again by your logic Stacy Abrams should have conceded but you celebrated what she did and attack Trump.

bgm wrote:

She conceded. Has Trump?

Stacy Abrams has never conceded her election. She ended her challenge but did not concede unless you can provide a link

“I am not claiming to be the governor of Georgia” -Stacy Abrams

She refused to concede because she was protesting that there had been widespread voter suppression

There’s a difference. Right now we’re dealing with “I still get to be president because even though those votes are legal, they shouldn’t count”


I have to ask any of the committed Republicans on here...why is your party so afraid of people voting? Limiting polling places, purging registered voters...these are things that happen, and cannot be denied. But why?

Stacy Abrams's opponent was the Secretary of State of Georgia, whose office is tasked with overseeing elections in the state. She has a far more legitimate reason to be concerned about election security since she was running against the person tabulating votes. Donald Trump has every right to access courts, but can't produce anything relevant. When his lawyers go to court, they cannot provide evidence or even say they believe fraud occurred without committing perjury.

I think people within GOP, around the world, and certainly with the Democratic Party have rightfully come to realize this is an attempt to retain power. Trump must know he has lost the race, and this is how he copes with the loss. Having sour grapes is not a crime, but the method Trump is employing is weakening some pillars of our democracy.

He should provide evidence that will change the outcome of the election in court or authorize the GSA to begin prepping for a transition. A concession is not necessary but would be polite.

NIKV69 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

This is in a nutshell the biggest issue with the GOP. They pretend Businesses are people, and they ignore the needs to the people .

Businesses are people they are just successful and that is something the Democratic party hates because they have to sell the fantasy that people that aren't successful are being oppressed which is complete garbage.

tommy1808 wrote:

Clinton conceded on the next day, and the media called Trump president elect.There is nothing comparable going on.

The only consistent claim of fraud in 2016 came from the GOP.

best regards
Thomas

Hillary conceded on election night but was too fragile mentally to address her supporters so she sent Podesta out to give some speech that made no sense.

mdsh00 wrote:

How far have we sunk as a nation when John Bolton and Karl Rove are the voices of sanity and reason?

They really aren't actually they are just trying to remain relevent since they have been nobodies for awhile. Once we get back into another election cycle you will be back to calling them extreme and other names.

If businesses are people, give them votes too. Give Google , Facebook, Apple, Microsoft a large amount of votes based on their income, wealth, etc. Why not? Give those big giants more votes than the little battling businesses because they’ve been more successful - because you want to encourage success, right?

You might not like the results of this however.

The republicans have got to disown Trump sooner or later, he is wrecking the party. When the likes of Bolton are calling for action, you know there is a crisis.

FGITD wrote:

There’s a difference.

No there isn't. She dropped her legal challenge because she had no recourse other than her entitlement. Which knows no bounds.

NIKV69 wrote:

FGITD wrote:

There’s a difference.

No there isn't. She dropped her legal challenge because she had no recourse other than her entitlement. Which knows no bounds.

Let's say you are correct. How does this change the fact that Trump lost the election? You sound like the guy at every party in college who is like "Yeah, but Hitler made the trains run on time too!"

Also I have to say out of respect for the woman, it shows your colours that you oppose someone who is an advocate for marginalized communities to vote. We are all human and sometimes you are not the majority. Suck it up and move on. The marginalized are speaking, its time to listen.

The Trump campaign drops at least one suit in Arizona. While there was no ruling, the court proceedings yesterday did not appear to bode well for them.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5 ... na-ballots

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/electio ... 0-54932067

just read this at 18:50

A pro-Trump rally is planned for this weekend in Washington DC, raising fears of violence on the streets. The Proud Boys - the far right group that Trump refused to condemn in his first debate and who have a reputation for street fights with their opponents - are planning to host the event despite not having a permit from local authorities.

Police in Washington have warned attendees of the demonstration, called the "Million MAGA March”, the “Stop the Steal” protest and the “March for Trump”, to leave guns at home or risk arrest.

Now Donald Trump has signalled his support - and has even suggested he could come along.

"Heartwarming to see all of the tremendous support out there, especially the organic Rallies that are springing up all over the Country, including a big one on Saturday in DC," he tweeted.

"I may even try to stop by and say hello."

and this

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 0-54932067

This could go nasty very quickly. Scary times.

Ok, how about now being the time to invoke the 25th amendment before this vile piece of scum does any more damage?

bgm wrote:

Ok, how about now being the time to invoke the 25th amendment before this vile piece of scum does any more damage?

What is the substance of the 25th amendment, please?

bennett123 wrote:

Police in Washington have warned attendees of the demonstration, called the "Million MAGA March”, the “Stop the Steal” protest and the “March for Trump”, to leave guns at home or risk arrest.

What do you think the chances of ‘simple compliance’ are?

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

art wrote:

bgm wrote:

Ok, how about now being the time to invoke the 25th amendment before this vile piece of scum does any more damage?

What is the substance of the 25th amendment, please?

The Twenty-fifth Amendment (Amendment XXV) to the United States Constitution deals with issues related to presidential succession and disability. It clarifies that the vice president becomes president (as opposed to acting president) if the president dies, resigns, or is removed from office; and establishes procedures for filling a vacancy in the office of the vice president and for responding to presidential disabilities. The Twenty-fifth Amendment was submitted to the states on July 6, 1965, by the 89th Congress and was adopted on February 10, 1967, during the 90th Congress, the day that the requisite number (38) of individual states had ratified the amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fi ... prov=sfti1

Lets just say that I am happy NOT to be anywhere near.

The New York Times has called Georgia for President-elect Biden and North Carolina for President Trump. All 50 states and DC have now been called.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... =undefined

President-elect Biden got 306 electoral votes. President Trump has 232. Four years ago, the president got 306 electoral votes (barring faithless electors). Notably, in both elections the Democratic candidate won the popular vote. This makes President Trump the first president to never get the plurality of the popular vote, and the first president since George HW Bush in 1992 to lose re-election.

N867DA wrote:

The New York Times has called Georgia for President-elect Biden and North Carolina for President Trump. All 50 states and DC have now been called.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... =undefined

President-elect Biden got 306 electoral votes. President Trump has 232. Four years ago, the president got 306 electoral votes (barring faithless electors). Notably, in both elections the Democratic candidate won the popular vote. This makes President Trump the first president to never get the plurality of the popular vote, and the first president since George HW Bush in 1992 to lose re-election.

Didn’t Trump claim his victory was “landslide”?

My understanding is that it can only be invoked by the VP and the current cabinet, (not sure about Acting Secretaries such as the DOD).

How would they benefit by doing so, particularly in the 2 Georgia Senatorial run offs?.

Georgia, a solidly red state, has gone blue. Yet, its swing state neighbors, Florida and NC have gone red.... I would have never come close to picturing something like that 4 years ago.
What drove GA leftwards while its neighbors moved to the right?

acavpics wrote:

Georgia, a solidly red state, has gone blue. Yet, its swing state neighbors, Florida and NC have gone red.... I would have never come close to picturing something like that 4 years ago.
What drove GA leftwards while its neighbors moved to the right?

Getting suppressed voters out to vote. You can thank Stacy Abrams & co for their efforts in getting mostly black voters to register.

The Twenty-fifth Amendment (Amendment XXV) to the United States Constitution deals with issues related to presidential succession and disability. It clarifies that the vice president becomes president (as opposed to acting president) if the president dies, resigns, or is removed from office...

How can it be used if the president is alive, has not resigned and there is no way to remove him from office? Impeachment is possible but the senatorial quasi court is worse than useless since most of the senators will refuse to find the president guilty if he and they are members of the same political party (ably demonstrated recently).

NIKV69 wrote:

FGITD wrote:

There’s a difference.

No there isn't. She dropped her legal challenge because she had no recourse other than her entitlement. Which knows no bounds.

“I don’t agree with how the election was run”

VS


“Waaaahhhh I wanna be king! Stop counting if I’m winning, keep counting if I’m losing!”

acavpics wrote:

Georgia, a solidly red state, has gone blue. Yet, its swing state neighbors, Florida and NC have gone red.... I would have never come close to picturing something like that 4 years ago.
What drove GA leftwards while its neighbors moved to the right?

Ironically, it was John Lewis' home county that pushed Georgia blue. While this certainly isn't the only reason, it does seem that having a go at popular political figures doesn't go unnoticed and comes back to haunt you. Similarly for Arizona.

So much for being a "stable genius"...

acavpics wrote:

What drove GA leftwards while its neighbors moved to the right?

Education and morals...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

meecrob wrote:

Let's say you are correct. How does this change the fact that Trump lost the election? You sound like the guy at every party in college who is like "Yeah, but Hitler made the trains run on time too!"

It doesn't. I am just pointing out the extreme bias here. You are making Trump out to be the worst human being ever and Abrams to be this great thing all while exhibiting the same behavior after losing an election. I don't know why you are lumping me into this crazy crowd that won't accept Trump lost. I don't recall saying that.

meecrob wrote:

Also I have to say out of respect for the woman, it shows your colours that you oppose someone who is an advocate for marginalized communities to vote. We are all human and sometimes you are not the majority. Suck it up and move on. The marginalized are speaking, its time to listen.

No it doesn't that is just something you are inventing to smear me. I am for all communities voting. Every legal citizen of the united states should have a vote. Stop with the straw men. Many people spoke during the election and they should be heard. Just ask Max Rose.

casinterest wrote:

acavpics wrote:

Georgia, a solidly red state, has gone blue. Yet, its swing state neighbors, Florida and NC have gone red.... I would have never come close to picturing something like that 4 years ago.
What drove GA leftwards while its neighbors moved to the right?

GA has a large population of people in very liberal areas that have witnessed some of the worst of the GOP Voting suppression techniques. Coupled with highly diverse and advanced commerce centers in major cities.

Don't sell out NC quite so much. Trump lost a lot of voters that the had in 2016 in NC, and the state may have flipped had Cunningham not run so weakly at the end with his affairs.

Florida it turns out has a population that is susceptible to lies, but it also has a lot of people in tourism which is getting smashed right now due to the Pandemic. People just aren't traveling lockdown or not, and the amusement parks aren't able to employ a lot of people. So fFlorida went away due to socialism lies, and job loss lies from the Trump campaign.

Sure, I guess North Carolina did move a little left from 2016. However, it did manage to go blue in 2008. I guess that was just an outlier as we did see states like Iowa and INDIANA go blue that time.

I am quite hopeful that the rapid growth of the CLT ans RDU metropolitan areas will help flip it blue again in future elections.

As for FL, I hope that when things improve post-COVID (cases go down, vaccine is widespread, people get back to work etc.), Democrats can properly attribute that to (what will hopefully be) good governance by the Biden administration. Otherwise, Sleezebag Desantis will take credit for it and the idiots will once again be brainwashed into believing GOP lies.
Florida's recent results (2020 and 2018) shows that Democrats need a way to properly fend off the false claims that "progressive = socialist & communist." Even to this day, I haven't seen a single comeback phrase or counterclaim against this right wing propaganda which so many folks are buying.

The policies progressives support are NOT there in communist dictatorships but rather in better-off developed countries (Europe, Australia, NZ, etc) all around the world.