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AirWorthy99
Posts: 1350
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:55 pm

N867DA wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
N867DA wrote:

I agree immigration needs to be balanced with the needs of Americans, and the economy is something that should be considered when weighing immigration policy. I do not trust Donald Trump to do this responsibly.

What is wrong with an elite in the White House? I want people who are educated and able to make nuanced policy decisions, uniters who do not make their own countrymen feel unwanted or marginalized, achievers who are good at negotiating instead of ducking their responsibilities when things get tough in charge. "I take no responsibility at all" should not be uttered by a sitting president, and in better times would be taken as abdication of the role of president. Remember "The buck stops here"? Donald Trump is incredibly polarizing and divisive, to the point where he publicly threatens to not fund states after disasters because their governors are of the opposite party. America's rejection of Donald Trump while support for downballot Republicans speaks volumes--nothing wrong with conservatism but Donald needs to go.


So many myths that are still going around.

The wise, intelligent, talented, gifted elite of this country has run this country down to the abyss. They have been ruling this country till all of the sudden uncontrollable and crazy Donald took the WH. That's why for 4 years we have seen the attacks by all fronts, some were deserved, but the vast majority exaggerated and crazy, like Russian collusion and impeachment for a phone call.

These elites you prefer to allow your country be governed got us to many many foreign conflicts, I know you might have forgotten by now, I know you probably think we won't do them again, but almost all presidents have gotten us into wars which made no absolute sense. From Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Libya you name it.

One thing we the average Joe don't know is that these elites are elite because they follow the same old doctrine. They get into the best schools, get the DC job, then become wealthy private citizens (and repeat for generations). That's the elite that will come back in 2024. And possibly stay there for the foreseeable future even if a GOP president comes back in 2024.

Hate Trump or not, he was the result of the populace of this country tired and fed up with the elites only thinking about themselves and their bottom line for generations.


OK, but what has Donald Trump done that any boilerplate neocon would not have done, besides a few embarrassing tweets, being needlessly divisive, and enriching his own pockets? Here is the GOP's 2004 Party Platform: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documen ... y-platform . It is lengthy, so here is a summary: https://www.ontheissues.org/2004_GOP_Platform.htm

Please point out where Donald Trump significantly deviates from this sixteen-year old document. I have found maybe three or four, regarding tariffs and perhaps foreign engagement. Both of those are somewhat a reach, becuase even GWB used tariffs for economic protectionism and troop counts (including third party 'contractor" troops) have not significantly fallen. Correction: US Troop counts in Iraq and Afghanistan have fallen significantly over the past four years. While some of it is due to timing (notably that those countries have an able-bodied air force and army) a lot is due to effort to drawdown troops. There about 25,000 contractors in Afghanistan, of which a fifth are security.

I also think isolationism--which is what Trump champions--is worse for America. We succeed because we are industrious, freedom-loving, and project soft and hard power globally. I am happy Trump did not increase foreign engagements. I am even happier with his work in the Middle East and give him full credit for his work there. I am not at all happy with his larger foreign policy stance.

Is it more possible that Donald Trump has made impassioned speeches that appeal to people who feel that elites have run the country "into the abyss" while doing the exact same things as his predecessors, but with more hateful, vulgar, divisive language? Not only are you getting screwed by the President, you're being asked to distrust the people telling you you're getting screwed.

I don't think Democrats or Republicans have all the answers. I think the Democrats are closer, and make no attempts to hide that opinion. Republicans have some good ideas, especially about the importance of working hard and perseverance. But Trump and his message is not good for America.


I beg to differ. When Trump assumed office, we were on the brink of war with North Korea. Yes it was a bit embarrassing him meeting Kim, but that averted death, by the thousands at the very least.

His policy towards the Middle East has worked well, considering Iran has been held into account, and peace is breaking between Arab nations and Israel. I consider that another win.

Whereas Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama policy got the Middle east burning. Bush the first getting us into Iraq, allowing Osama Bin Laden recruit and build up during the Clinton years, then Bush getting us back into Iraq, which eventually led to the Arab Spring which Obama supported and got us turmoil in the Middle east, to the point of eventually getting us the Islamic state.

All of the last things I mentioned were policy decisions made by this elite you so cherish take back power and they will. Watch what happens and if we get back into war. God forbid we wont.

But as a conservative I am very very happy with Trump not sending our men and women to die in stupid wars. That's a huge accomplishment, despite what ever the MSM and the globalist elite say, we should spend that money here at home, building our economy and our military against the rising China threat.
Last edited by AirWorthy99 on Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
Newark727
Posts: 2415
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:56 pm

~2 weeks before the election, Trump was canvassing the hardscrabble, working-class town of... Newport Beach, California, where he held a fundraiser in the home of billionaire Palmer Luckey. I've seen at least half a dozen yachts flying Trump flags in Newport Bay, and twice as many $$$ waterfront houses. Trump is "anti-elitist" because people choose to believe that he is, and no other reason.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13575
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:07 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
N867DA wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

So many myths that are still going around.

The wise, intelligent, talented, gifted elite of this country has run this country down to the abyss. They have been ruling this country till all of the sudden uncontrollable and crazy Donald took the WH. That's why for 4 years we have seen the attacks by all fronts, some were deserved, but the vast majority exaggerated and crazy, like Russian collusion and impeachment for a phone call.

These elites you prefer to allow your country be governed got us to many many foreign conflicts, I know you might have forgotten by now, I know you probably think we won't do them again, but almost all presidents have gotten us into wars which made no absolute sense. From Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Libya you name it.

One thing we the average Joe don't know is that these elites are elite because they follow the same old doctrine. They get into the best schools, get the DC job, then become wealthy private citizens (and repeat for generations). That's the elite that will come back in 2024. And possibly stay there for the foreseeable future even if a GOP president comes back in 2024.

Hate Trump or not, he was the result of the populace of this country tired and fed up with the elites only thinking about themselves and their bottom line for generations.


OK, but what has Donald Trump done that any boilerplate neocon would not have done, besides a few embarrassing tweets, being needlessly divisive, and enriching his own pockets? Here is the GOP's 2004 Party Platform: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documen ... y-platform . It is lengthy, so here is a summary: https://www.ontheissues.org/2004_GOP_Platform.htm

Please point out where Donald Trump significantly deviates from this sixteen-year old document. I have found maybe three or four, regarding tariffs and perhaps foreign engagement. Both of those are somewhat a reach, becuase even GWB used tariffs for economic protectionism and troop counts (including third party 'contractor" troops) have not significantly fallen. Correction: US Troop counts in Iraq and Afghanistan have fallen significantly over the past four years. While some of it is due to timing (notably that those countries have an able-bodied air force and army) a lot is due to effort to drawdown troops. There about 25,000 contractors in Afghanistan, of which a fifth are security.

I also think isolationism--which is what Trump champions--is worse for America. We succeed because we are industrious, freedom-loving, and project soft and hard power globally. I am happy Trump did not increase foreign engagements. I am even happier with his work in the Middle East and give him full credit for his work there. I am not at all happy with his larger foreign policy stance.

Is it more possible that Donald Trump has made impassioned speeches that appeal to people who feel that elites have run the country "into the abyss" while doing the exact same things as his predecessors, but with more hateful, vulgar, divisive language? Not only are you getting screwed by the President, you're being asked to distrust the people telling you you're getting screwed.

I don't think Democrats or Republicans have all the answers. I think the Democrats are closer, and make no attempts to hide that opinion. Republicans have some good ideas, especially about the importance of working hard and perseverance. But Trump and his message is not good for America.


I beg to differ. When Trump assumed office, we were on the brink of war with North Korea. Yes it was a bit embarrassing him meeting Kim, but that averted death, by the thousands at the very least.

His policy towards the Middle East has worked well, considering Iran has been held into account, and peace is breaking between Arab nations and Israel. I consider that another win.

Whereas Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama policy got the Middle east burning. Bush the first getting us into Iraq, allowing Osama Bin Laden recruit and build up during the Clinton years, then Bush getting us back into Iraq, which eventually led to the Arab Spring which Obama supported and got us turmoil in the Middle east, to the point of eventually getting us the Islamic state.

All of the last things I mentioned were policy decisions made by this elite you so cherish take back power and they will. Watch what happens and if we get back into war. God forbid we wont.

But as a conservative I am very very happy with Trump not sending our men and women to die in stupid wars. That's a huge accomplishment, despite what ever the MSM and the globalist elite say, we should spend that money here at home, building our economy and our military against the rising China threat.



North Korea and Iran now have 4 more years of status quo to enhance their nuclear arrangements.
https://www.axios.com/north-korea-nucle ... 238ce.html
Arms control with Russia is crumbling, Iran’s uranium stockpiles are growing, and North Korea is as vexing and threatening as ever.


Trump has ignored the middle east issues while handing out war machines for state recognition of Israel.

Syria is only stable because the generals lied to Trump. Not exactly a good thing, but remember smart people don't trust Trump's judgement.

https://news.yahoo.com/rep-jim-banks-ca ... 05443.html

“We were always playing shell games to not make clear to our leadership how many troops we had there,” Jeffrey told Defense One. The actual number of American soldiers in the region is “a lot more than” the roughly 200 Trump eventually agreed to.

“What Syria withdrawal? There was never a Syria withdrawal,” Jeffrey went on. “When the situation in northeast Syria had been fairly stable after we defeated ISIS, [Trump] was inclined to pull out. In each case, we then decided to come up with five better arguments for why we needed to stay. And we succeeded both times. That’s the story.”


US troops are still in Afghanistan, until Trump tries to yank them.
So all this peace is because the US military is holding the line.
Last edited by casinterest on Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
cpd
Posts: 6772
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:08 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Being wealthy and being elite is not the same. Trump wasn't of the governing elite. Was he of the elite of Manhattan? probably, of West Palm Beach? probably.

But not the governing elite. Meaning the ruling class of this country. Don't confuse both. You can be wealthy but that doesn't make you part of a privileged and well connected social ruling class.


It’s exactly the same - he uses the poor and less privileged in a filthy, despicable way. He is the elite.

Socially elite ruling class too, given his connections that are well documented and photographed. Definitely part of elite champagne set.

The battlers he has lied to get nothing from that snake-oil trader. That makes me angry, they are being left behind and they shouldn’t be. If I were over there, I would be fighting for them. All they’ve got out of Trump is empty promises and hollow rhetoric. You know this is true, your desperate response says everything.

They have nobody to represent them.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 4129
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:13 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

All of the last things I mentioned were policy decisions made by this elite you so cherish take back power and they will. Watch what happens and if we get back into war. God forbid we wont.


Nope, they were policy decisions made by separate people who you have decided to assign a certain label to for the purposes of falsely trying to assign a correlation and further an argument of causation. This is also what Resident trump does, it’s no wonder there is a correlation between educational achievement and propensity to vote away from Resident trump. If this is he level of argument trump voters think is acceptable.

Fred


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art
Posts: 4153
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:16 pm

Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Hate Trump or not, he was the result of the populace of this country tired and fed up with the elites only thinking about themselves and their bottom line for generations.

Wait, so you are saying that the people of this nation were so fed up with the "elites only thinking about themselves and their bottom lines" for so long that they turned to and elected a well known elite that only thinks about himself and his bottom line?

That makes no sense.

Tugg


Leaving his negative social and foreign policy views to one side, Trump offered the prospect of a new, non-establishment style of leadership, didn't he? Supposedly wealthy, it was conceivable that he would not need to make himself answerable to any entrenched political elite in order to get elected.

He might have become a good leader if he had appointed a team of people with integrity and had been prepared to wotk with them in the national interest.

That is not what he did, though, was it?
 
N867DA
Posts: 1367
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:53 am

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:28 pm

art wrote:
Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Hate Trump or not, he was the result of the populace of this country tired and fed up with the elites only thinking about themselves and their bottom line for generations.

Wait, so you are saying that the people of this nation were so fed up with the "elites only thinking about themselves and their bottom lines" for so long that they turned to and elected a well known elite that only thinks about himself and his bottom line?

That makes no sense.

Tugg


Leaving his negative social and foreign policy views to one side, Trump offered the prospect of a new, non-establishment style of leadership, didn't he? Supposedly wealthy, it was conceivable that he would not need to make himself answerable to any entrenched political elite in order to get elected.

He might have become a good leader if he had appointed a team of people with integrity and had been prepared to wotk with them in the national interest.

That is not what he did, though, was it?


This is exactly right. He could have become a political Bruce Wayne of sorts--wealthy, and using that wealth to forge a new path to fix some of the problems he sees.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1350
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:33 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

All of the last things I mentioned were policy decisions made by this elite you so cherish take back power and they will. Watch what happens and if we get back into war. God forbid we wont.


Nope, they were policy decisions made by separate people who you have decided to assign a certain label to for the purposes of falsely trying to assign a correlation and further an argument of causation. This is also what Resident trump does, it’s no wonder there is a correlation between educational achievement and propensity to vote away from Resident trump. If this is he level of argument trump voters think is acceptable.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Right separate people, Joe Biden voted in support for the Iraq war. One of the worst foreign policy mistakes in generations. https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/politics ... index.html
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
luckyone
Posts: 3972
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:41 pm

art wrote:
Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Hate Trump or not, he was the result of the populace of this country tired and fed up with the elites only thinking about themselves and their bottom line for generations.

Wait, so you are saying that the people of this nation were so fed up with the "elites only thinking about themselves and their bottom lines" for so long that they turned to and elected a well known elite that only thinks about himself and his bottom line?

That makes no sense.

Tugg


Leaving his negative social and foreign policy views to one side, Trump offered the prospect of a new, non-establishment style of leadership, didn't he? Supposedly wealthy, it was conceivable that he would not need to make himself answerable to any entrenched political elite in order to get elected.

He might have become a good leader if he had appointed a team of people with integrity and had been prepared to wotk with them in the national interest.

That is not what he did, though, did he?

Except he was still born into the establishment, and tried to brag that he had used large donations and support to cow politicians to his wishes. And in the 2016 run, he openly acknowledged hob-nobbing with social and political elites for decades. Allegedly Richard Nixon told Trump in the 1980s that his wife thought he would be elected to an office should he choose to do so. Donald Trump did not just pop up in the political scene.
 
luckyone
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:48 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

All of the last things I mentioned were policy decisions made by this elite you so cherish take back power and they will. Watch what happens and if we get back into war. God forbid we wont.


Nope, they were policy decisions made by separate people who you have decided to assign a certain label to for the purposes of falsely trying to assign a correlation and further an argument of causation. This is also what Resident trump does, it’s no wonder there is a correlation between educational achievement and propensity to vote away from Resident trump. If this is he level of argument trump voters think is acceptable.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Right separate people, Joe Biden voted in support for the Iraq war. One of the worst foreign policy mistakes in generations. https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/politics ... index.html

I'm sorry, but I cannot help but laugh when Republican voters suddenly find it convenient to criticize the Iraq war because Trump used Bush in his shotgun attack strategy to his election. ONE Republican out of 49 voted against it in the Senate. ONE. It's like you have amnesia about the Bush-era rhetoric and the fierce public discourse from his supporters about WMDs, al-Qaeda, 9-11, Iraq...this list goes on. Republican voters are allowed to call it a mistake but not the people they voted for? I was there in the middle of that and I'm not buying it.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 4129
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:54 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

All of the last things I mentioned were policy decisions made by this elite you so cherish take back power and they will. Watch what happens and if we get back into war. God forbid we wont.


Nope, they were policy decisions made by separate people who you have decided to assign a certain label to for the purposes of falsely trying to assign a correlation and further an argument of causation. This is also what Resident trump does, it’s no wonder there is a correlation between educational achievement and propensity to vote away from Resident trump. If this is he level of argument trump voters think is acceptable.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Right separate people, Joe Biden voted in support for the Iraq war. One of the worst foreign policy mistakes in generations. https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/politics ... index.html

Fail. The issue is your determination of a correlative factor from past performance and the determination of the causation without suitable evidence. All previous presidents were also male. Did you vote for Hillary?

Poor effort. I can really see why Resident Trump got 70+million votes...

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Image
 
bgm
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:56 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
N867DA wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

So many myths that are still going around.

The wise, intelligent, talented, gifted elite of this country has run this country down to the abyss. They have been ruling this country till all of the sudden uncontrollable and crazy Donald took the WH. That's why for 4 years we have seen the attacks by all fronts, some were deserved, but the vast majority exaggerated and crazy, like Russian collusion and impeachment for a phone call.

These elites you prefer to allow your country be governed got us to many many foreign conflicts, I know you might have forgotten by now, I know you probably think we won't do them again, but almost all presidents have gotten us into wars which made no absolute sense. From Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Libya you name it.

One thing we the average Joe don't know is that these elites are elite because they follow the same old doctrine. They get into the best schools, get the DC job, then become wealthy private citizens (and repeat for generations). That's the elite that will come back in 2024. And possibly stay there for the foreseeable future even if a GOP president comes back in 2024.

Hate Trump or not, he was the result of the populace of this country tired and fed up with the elites only thinking about themselves and their bottom line for generations.


OK, but what has Donald Trump done that any boilerplate neocon would not have done, besides a few embarrassing tweets, being needlessly divisive, and enriching his own pockets? Here is the GOP's 2004 Party Platform: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documen ... y-platform . It is lengthy, so here is a summary: https://www.ontheissues.org/2004_GOP_Platform.htm

Please point out where Donald Trump significantly deviates from this sixteen-year old document. I have found maybe three or four, regarding tariffs and perhaps foreign engagement. Both of those are somewhat a reach, becuase even GWB used tariffs for economic protectionism and troop counts (including third party 'contractor" troops) have not significantly fallen. Correction: US Troop counts in Iraq and Afghanistan have fallen significantly over the past four years. While some of it is due to timing (notably that those countries have an able-bodied air force and army) a lot is due to effort to drawdown troops. There about 25,000 contractors in Afghanistan, of which a fifth are security.

I also think isolationism--which is what Trump champions--is worse for America. We succeed because we are industrious, freedom-loving, and project soft and hard power globally. I am happy Trump did not increase foreign engagements. I am even happier with his work in the Middle East and give him full credit for his work there. I am not at all happy with his larger foreign policy stance.

Is it more possible that Donald Trump has made impassioned speeches that appeal to people who feel that elites have run the country "into the abyss" while doing the exact same things as his predecessors, but with more hateful, vulgar, divisive language? Not only are you getting screwed by the President, you're being asked to distrust the people telling you you're getting screwed.

I don't think Democrats or Republicans have all the answers. I think the Democrats are closer, and make no attempts to hide that opinion. Republicans have some good ideas, especially about the importance of working hard and perseverance. But Trump and his message is not good for America.


I beg to differ. When Trump assumed office, we were on the brink of war with North Korea. Yes it was a bit embarrassing him meeting Kim, but that averted death, by the thousands at the very least.

His policy towards the Middle East has worked well, considering Iran has been held into account, and peace is breaking between Arab nations and Israel. I consider that another win.

Whereas Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama policy got the Middle east burning. Bush the first getting us into Iraq, allowing Osama Bin Laden recruit and build up during the Clinton years, then Bush getting us back into Iraq, which eventually led to the Arab Spring which Obama supported and got us turmoil in the Middle east, to the point of eventually getting us the Islamic state.

All of the last things I mentioned were policy decisions made by this elite you so cherish take back power and they will. Watch what happens and if we get back into war. God forbid we wont.

But as a conservative I am very very happy with Trump not sending our men and women to die in stupid wars. That's a huge accomplishment, despite what ever the MSM and the globalist elite say, we should spend that money here at home, building our economy and our military against the rising China threat.


And yet you seem perfectly happy with a quarter of a million Americans dying due to the appalling ineptitude of the Trump Administration? So you're angry with people being killed by war, but you're happy with them being killed at home? That makes absolutely no sense.

Oh, and I hate to break it to you, but Trump IS part of the 'elite' (money). Look at all his cronies.
 
luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:12 pm

President Trump is now suggesting he may target Ohio governor Mike DeWine in the next gubernatorial primary. Fealty at its finest.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5 ... ter-dewine
 
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777222LR
Posts: 376
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:24 pm

casinterest wrote:

US troops are still in Afghanistan, until Trump tries to yank them.
So all this peace is because the US military is holding the line.



Just announced, Trump plans further withdrawal of US military in Afghanistan and Iraq by Jan 15th. I knew this was coming when he fired Esper.
 
luckyone
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:27 pm

777222LR wrote:
casinterest wrote:

US troops are still in Afghanistan, until Trump tries to yank them.
So all this peace is because the US military is holding the line.



Just announced, Trump plans further withdrawal of US military in Afghanistan and Iraq by Jan 15th. I knew this was coming when he fired Esper.

Nice middle finger to the Biden team. You watch, when the political and security situation in one or both of those countries deteriorates due our rapid withdrawal, Uncle Donny is going to be right there criticizing the whole thing. He's constructing his next steps. Jeez o Petes.
 
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777222LR
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:28 pm

What is astonishing to me, is how anyone can defend the Trump presidency at this point. It's all been based on lies, conspiracy theories, hateful rhetoric, dog-whistles to racists, anti-GLBTQ, and the list goes on. He's good at being a salesmen to those gullible enough to fall for it, but it's just been snake oil. He's got a lot of money and political/media power to help him do it...but the majority of us can see right through it. You'd think having all of that power, they'd be smarter with "selling" the American people, and not just his rabid base. They definitely have been successful, but apparently not enough this go around. I'm just floored by his base. I didn't realize people like this existed so widespread among the country. It's a sad reality we face in the US, that all of these people have been brought out of the woodwork.
 
2122M
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:44 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Right separate people, Joe Biden voted in support for the Iraq war. One of the worst foreign policy mistakes in generations. https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/politics ... index.html


A decision Trump supported too....

Also Mitch McConnell. Should he step down as majority leader for that decision? I sure hope you donated to the Amy McGrath campaign.
 
N867DA
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:45 pm

luckyone wrote:
President Trump is now suggesting he may target Ohio governor Mike DeWine in the next gubernatorial primary. Fealty at its finest.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5 ... ter-dewine


I suspect he has a shot. DeWine is an Ohio politics institution but the state went to Trump by +8 points in 2016 and 2020. DeWine occasionally shows the old-school GOP prudence in governance that Trump will pitch as the 'deep state'.

I know America made the right choice in 2020 because there is a 0% chance Biden or Harris would withhold federal funds for Ohio even if Trump were the governor.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
bennett123
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:50 pm

My recollection of his dealings with North Korea was that both leaders had a big red button on their desk.

But according to Trump, 'I have a red button and it works'..

With someone like Kim is a challenge like that really a good idea.

I do not know if his red button works, and frankly do not want to find out.

To quote FDR, diplomacy is speaking softly and carrying a big stick.
 
luckyone
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:52 pm

bennett123 wrote:
To quote FDR, diplomacy is speaking softly and carrying a big stick.

That was Theodore Roosevelt. Not FDR.
 
bennett123
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:54 pm

I stand corrected.

The rest of the post stands.
 
luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:56 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I stand corrected.

The rest of the post stands.

Agreed.
 
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mbmbos
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:59 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
When Trump assumed office, we were on the brink of war with North Korea.


This is completely untrue.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:02 pm

Amazing, I would have never thought 10 years ago that leftists:

1- Hate isolationism and like war
2- Love the CIA
3- Hate the first amendment and tolerance.
4- Love corporations.
among many other inconsistencies.

I would never have believed it. Trump managed to change leftism in 4 years their ideologies and core beliefs. Lets see what 4 years of Biden do.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:03 pm

mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
When Trump assumed office, we were on the brink of war with North Korea.


This is completely untrue.


A bit of history here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-face ... 1479855286

Unless Obama was lying, was he?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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777222LR
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:11 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
When Trump assumed office, we were on the brink of war with North Korea.


This is completely untrue.


A bit of history here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-face ... 1479855286

Unless Obama was lying, was he?



Newsflash - We are still on the brink of war with North Korea. They are still developing weapons. They are still murdering their civilians. They are still a regional, and somewhat global threat in terms of stability. They have weapons now that can reach the mainland US, Hawaii, and Guam. Kim Jong Un is still an aggressive, terrible, dictator. Donald Trump doesn't talk about it, because he wants everyone to think he's made some sort of headway. Notice how those negotiations and meetings just kinda petered out?
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 4129
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:15 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Amazing, I would have never thought 10 years ago that leftists:

Is a leftist someone on the left or someone who hates those on the left? I’m assuming the former for this post.
AirWorthy99 wrote:

1- Hate isolationism

I think the left has not changed position on this and have been against isolationism for the last 10 years at least.
AirWorthy99 wrote:

and like war


I think almost everyone hates it but sees it as a necessary evil.
AirWorthy99 wrote:

2- Love the CIA

Why would they not? Any evidence that it did or does hate it?
AirWorthy99 wrote:
3- Hate the first amendment and tolerance.

Not seen any evidence of this 10 years ago or now.
AirWorthy99 wrote:
4- Love corporations.

An opinion may be based on more than broadly all corporations, there is likely mor nuance than that. Would you like me to post you a link to teach you about nuance?
AirWorthy99 wrote:
among many other inconsistencies.

I would never have believed it. Trump managed to change leftism in 4 years their ideologies and core beliefs. Lets see what 4 years of Biden do.
it’s easy to not believe things that aren’t true.

Fred


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Newark727
Posts: 2415
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:19 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Amazing, I would have never thought 10 years ago that leftists:

1- Hate isolationism and like war
2- Love the CIA
3- Hate the first amendment and tolerance.
4- Love corporations.
among many other inconsistencies.

I would never have believed it. Trump managed to change leftism in 4 years their ideologies and core beliefs. Lets see what 4 years of Biden do.


If this is what you got from reading the previous page of posts, you either aren't comprehending them, or are intentionally misunderstanding them.
 
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mbmbos
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:28 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
When Trump assumed office, we were on the brink of war with North Korea.


This is completely untrue.


A bit of history here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-face ... 1479855286

Unless Obama was lying, was he?


"Brink" of war?

LOL.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
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casinterest
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:36 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Amazing, I would have never thought 10 years ago that leftists:

1- Hate isolationism and like war
2- Love the CIA
3- Hate the first amendment and tolerance.
4- Love corporations.
among many other inconsistencies.

I would never have believed it. Trump managed to change leftism in 4 years their ideologies and core beliefs. Lets see what 4 years of Biden do.



You really need to change the misinformation channels you keep watching.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
N867DA
Posts: 1367
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Amazing, I would have never thought 10 years ago that leftists:

1- Hate isolationism and like war
2- Love the CIA
3- Hate the first amendment and tolerance.
4- Love corporations.
among many other inconsistencies.

I would never have believed it. Trump managed to change leftism in 4 years their ideologies and core beliefs. Lets see what 4 years of Biden do.


1. Isolationism is bad. War is bad too.
2. No inherent love or displeasure for the CIA. They have done some shady things, can't escape that.
3. I do not know what this means. I will just say tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance at all. Don't come to me asking tolerance for Proud Boys or whatever Nazis call themselves these days.
4. Corporations are not people and we subsidize far too many losses (the gains are always private though, curious). I break from the Dems because I have not made my mind up about the role of corporate taxes.

The tenets of both major parties have shifted. Republicans have gotten far more conservative while Democrats have gotten more liberal (but are still center compared to other mainstream liberal parties in developed countries).
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:05 pm

casinterest wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Amazing, I would have never thought 10 years ago that leftists:

1- Hate isolationism and like war
2- Love the CIA
3- Hate the first amendment and tolerance.
4- Love corporations.
among many other inconsistencies.

I would never have believed it. Trump managed to change leftism in 4 years their ideologies and core beliefs. Lets see what 4 years of Biden do.



You really need to change the misinformation channels you keep watching.

Or just not be surprised when someone observed contradictions.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15062
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:09 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Amazing, I would have never thought 10 years ago that leftists:

1- Hate isolationism and like war
2- Love the CIA
3- Hate the first amendment and tolerance.
4- Love corporations.
among many other inconsistencies.

I would never have believed it. Trump managed to change leftism in 4 years their ideologies and core beliefs. Lets see what 4 years of Biden do.


Speaking of elites, you never answered my question a couple days ago...for your reference:

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
casinterest wrote:



Great chart that supports the idea of a plutocracy in the US. So much for democracy and freedom. Abolish elections and let the wealthy decide who rules this country.


This gets to the heart of something important.

A thought exercise: let’s say there’s a manufacturer in one of the counties on the right side of that graphic. They have fought for years to keep a factory open, as its a major employer for the area. The county has given tax breaks to the company for years, as incentive to stay. Finally a new CEO comes in, and the board makes clear they want a 5% improvement in domestic costs next year because they will not increase prices for customers and lose market share. The CEO decides it is time for the plant in red county to close, because he can improve costs by 40% relocating it to Mexico.

The above is essentially a regular happening in modern American capitalism. What would you say to the CEO? How would you convince them to take action other than moving the plant somewhere cheaper? He answers to the board and shareholders, not you or me.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
proest
Posts: 42
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:29 pm

So I am imagining a hypothetical failed United States. How to cut it up along ideological lines; I'm going for New England + Midwest + NY/NJ/Maryland, California + Nevada + Portland + Oregon + Hawai, and a big 'middle land' stretching from Texas to the Canadian border.

Washington will be known as "The Jeruzalem of the Americas", with China trying to stabilize this region for ages already.

This is obviously absurd and a joke. But with each new year, I am [b]seriously[b] more in doubt over the long term survival of the United States. Wouldn't be surprised to see multiple nations in 10 years. The real question is; how to name them, and which political system will they adapt ;)
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:35 pm

proest wrote:
So I am imagining a hypothetical failed United States. How to cut it up along ideological lines; I'm going for New England + Midwest + NY/NJ/Maryland, California + Nevada + Portland + Oregon + Hawai, and a big 'middle land' stretching from Texas to the Canadian border.

Washington will be known as "The Jeruzalem of the Americas", with China trying to stabilize this region for ages already.

This is obviously absurd and a joke. But with each new year, I am [b]seriously[b] more in doubt over the long term survival of the United States. Wouldn't be surprised to see multiple nations in 10 years. The real question is; how to name them, and which political system will they adapt ;)


I'm inclined to agree. I don't see how the nation holds together in the long term. My prediction is the government shutdown that never ends, at which points individual states begin to form alliances and go their separate ways.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1350
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:42 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Amazing, I would have never thought 10 years ago that leftists:

1- Hate isolationism and like war
2- Love the CIA
3- Hate the first amendment and tolerance.
4- Love corporations.
among many other inconsistencies.

I would never have believed it. Trump managed to change leftism in 4 years their ideologies and core beliefs. Lets see what 4 years of Biden do.


Speaking of elites, you never answered my question a couple days ago...for your reference:

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:


Great chart that supports the idea of a plutocracy in the US. So much for democracy and freedom. Abolish elections and let the wealthy decide who rules this country.


This gets to the heart of something important.

A thought exercise: let’s say there’s a manufacturer in one of the counties on the right side of that graphic. They have fought for years to keep a factory open, as its a major employer for the area. The county has given tax breaks to the company for years, as incentive to stay. Finally a new CEO comes in, and the board makes clear they want a 5% improvement in domestic costs next year because they will not increase prices for customers and lose market share. The CEO decides it is time for the plant in red county to close, because he can improve costs by 40% relocating it to Mexico.

The above is essentially a regular happening in modern American capitalism. What would you say to the CEO? How would you convince them to take action other than moving the plant somewhere cheaper? He answers to the board and shareholders, not you or me.



Don't know what your question has to do with this, but since I am very much opposed to the idea of being banned for derailing the topic. Perhaps we can argue about this away from this thread?

As for elites controlling this country, the chart seems to suggest that.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
FGITD
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:43 pm

DocLightning wrote:
proest wrote:
So I am imagining a hypothetical failed United States. How to cut it up along ideological lines; I'm going for New England + Midwest + NY/NJ/Maryland, California + Nevada + Portland + Oregon + Hawai, and a big 'middle land' stretching from Texas to the Canadian border.

Washington will be known as "The Jeruzalem of the Americas", with China trying to stabilize this region for ages already.

This is obviously absurd and a joke. But with each new year, I am [b]seriously[b] more in doubt over the long term survival of the United States. Wouldn't be surprised to see multiple nations in 10 years. The real question is; how to name them, and which political system will they adapt ;)


I'm inclined to agree. I don't see how the nation holds together in the long term. My prediction is the government shutdown that never ends, at which points individual states begin to form alliances and go their separate ways.


I’m not so sure it would be such a short term divide (10 years goes fast) but I wouldn’t be surprised if that was how things went. Any given American from NYC or LA has a vastly different viewpoint of the world than someone from Omaha or Des Moines. And eventually the government won't be able to do much other than maintain the status quo.

I hope it doesn't. I'm as proud as any American. But seeing how our own government handled things with the outbreak of COVID, especially in my state really made me feel a state loyalty I'd never felt. Deep blue state, and our governor was basically told to shut up and deal with the virus. Oh and we're going to steal your PPE supplies and send them to red states that aren't getting hit yet, and also don't plan on using the PPE.
 
cpd
Posts: 6772
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:48 pm

DocLightning wrote:
proest wrote:
So I am imagining a hypothetical failed United States. How to cut it up along ideological lines; I'm going for New England + Midwest + NY/NJ/Maryland, California + Nevada + Portland + Oregon + Hawai, and a big 'middle land' stretching from Texas to the Canadian border.

Washington will be known as "The Jeruzalem of the Americas", with China trying to stabilize this region for ages already.

This is obviously absurd and a joke. But with each new year, I am [b]seriously[b] more in doubt over the long term survival of the United States. Wouldn't be surprised to see multiple nations in 10 years. The real question is; how to name them, and which political system will they adapt ;)


I'm inclined to agree. I don't see how the nation holds together in the long term. My prediction is the government shutdown that never ends, at which points individual states begin to form alliances and go their separate ways.


That's the best thing that can happen, the split up of the USA. We will need other powerful nations to force the nuclear disarming of the USA or threaten it with crippling sanctions. A failed state must not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3972
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:59 pm

cpd wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
proest wrote:
So I am imagining a hypothetical failed United States. How to cut it up along ideological lines; I'm going for New England + Midwest + NY/NJ/Maryland, California + Nevada + Portland + Oregon + Hawai, and a big 'middle land' stretching from Texas to the Canadian border.

Washington will be known as "The Jeruzalem of the Americas", with China trying to stabilize this region for ages already.

This is obviously absurd and a joke. But with each new year, I am [b]seriously[b] more in doubt over the long term survival of the United States. Wouldn't be surprised to see multiple nations in 10 years. The real question is; how to name them, and which political system will they adapt ;)


I'm inclined to agree. I don't see how the nation holds together in the long term. My prediction is the government shutdown that never ends, at which points individual states begin to form alliances and go their separate ways.


That's the best thing that can happen, the split up of the USA. We will need other powerful nations to force the nuclear disarming of the USA or threaten it with crippling sanctions. A failed state must not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

I'm going to have to disagree. I do not think this is the best thing that can happen. We've been through worse. I'm hoping that with at least some positive example of leadership at the executive level we can all calm down a little bit after a few years of the waters being chummed from the very top.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15062
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:05 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Amazing, I would have never thought 10 years ago that leftists:

1- Hate isolationism and like war
2- Love the CIA
3- Hate the first amendment and tolerance.
4- Love corporations.
among many other inconsistencies.

I would never have believed it. Trump managed to change leftism in 4 years their ideologies and core beliefs. Lets see what 4 years of Biden do.


Speaking of elites, you never answered my question a couple days ago...for your reference:

Aaron747 wrote:

This gets to the heart of something important.

A thought exercise: let’s say there’s a manufacturer in one of the counties on the right side of that graphic. They have fought for years to keep a factory open, as its a major employer for the area. The county has given tax breaks to the company for years, as incentive to stay. Finally a new CEO comes in, and the board makes clear they want a 5% improvement in domestic costs next year because they will not increase prices for customers and lose market share. The CEO decides it is time for the plant in red county to close, because he can improve costs by 40% relocating it to Mexico.

The above is essentially a regular happening in modern American capitalism. What would you say to the CEO? How would you convince them to take action other than moving the plant somewhere cheaper? He answers to the board and shareholders, not you or me.



Don't know what your question has to do with this, but since I am very much opposed to the idea of being banned for derailing the topic. Perhaps we can argue about this away from this thread?

As for elites controlling this country, the chart seems to suggest that.


It seems there’s no issue with your response since the convo I quoted is from page 31 of this thread, and you mentioned elites again. My question is on that topic.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15062
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:07 pm

luckyone wrote:
cpd wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

I'm inclined to agree. I don't see how the nation holds together in the long term. My prediction is the government shutdown that never ends, at which points individual states begin to form alliances and go their separate ways.


That's the best thing that can happen, the split up of the USA. We will need other powerful nations to force the nuclear disarming of the USA or threaten it with crippling sanctions. A failed state must not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

I'm going to have to disagree. I do not think this is the best thing that can happen. We've been through worse. I'm hoping that with at least some positive example of leadership at the executive level we can all calm down a little bit after a few years of the waters being chummed from the very top.


Leadership alone cannot mend the class and education divides tearing the country apart. As others have noted, there are also burgeoning cultural differences between Americans living in major metropolitan areas and rural towns. We’re way beyond the country and city mouse.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
luckyone
Posts: 3972
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:14 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
cpd wrote:

That's the best thing that can happen, the split up of the USA. We will need other powerful nations to force the nuclear disarming of the USA or threaten it with crippling sanctions. A failed state must not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

I'm going to have to disagree. I do not think this is the best thing that can happen. We've been through worse. I'm hoping that with at least some positive example of leadership at the executive level we can all calm down a little bit after a few years of the waters being chummed from the very top.


Leadership alone cannot mend the class and education divides tearing the country apart. As others have noted, there are also burgeoning cultural differences between Americans living in major metropolitan areas and rural towns. We’re way beyond the country and city mouse.

I don't see how those differences are any more pronounced than they already have been, other than we now have 24/7 media that allows to have it in our face. Looking at my own family, the rhetoric has always been there. I think of my grandmother, who was born in a small mountain town in North Georgia. She lived in the metropolitan Atlanta area for over 60 years, but she talked like a small town mountain girl. "City folk," "the big city," Rural folk have long had a chip on their shoulder about how they feel they're treated by "the town folk," -- and it's often fair criticism. Look at popular children's books written in the 1930s--the Little House series, or The Grapes of Wrath. This is not a new problem.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:23 pm

luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
I'm going to have to disagree. I do not think this is the best thing that can happen. We've been through worse. I'm hoping that with at least some positive example of leadership at the executive level we can all calm down a little bit after a few years of the waters being chummed from the very top.


Leadership alone cannot mend the class and education divides tearing the country apart. As others have noted, there are also burgeoning cultural differences between Americans living in major metropolitan areas and rural towns. We’re way beyond the country and city mouse.

I don't see how those differences are any more pronounced than they already have been, other than we now have 24/7 media that allows to have it in our face. Looking at my own family, the rhetoric has always been there. I think of my grandmother, who was born in a small mountain town in North Georgia. She lived in the metropolitan Atlanta area for over 60 years, but she talked like a small town mountain girl. "City folk," "the big city," Rural folk have long had a chip on their shoulder about how they feel they're treated by "the town folk," -- and it's often fair criticism. Look at popular children's books written in the 1930s--the Little House series, or The Grapes of Wrath. This is not a new problem.


They are more pronounced now. Before those were differences in lifestyle preference and annoyance that cities gobbled up all tax monies. Now the claim is that people in cities are destroying ‘American life’ with theie multicultural mindset. If you work for companies hiring H1-Bs, you’re a globalist sympathizer. And that’s what you’ll hear from the hosts on Newsmax.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:28 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Leadership alone cannot mend the class and education divides tearing the country apart. As others have noted, there are also burgeoning cultural differences between Americans living in major metropolitan areas and rural towns. We’re way beyond the country and city mouse.

I don't see how those differences are any more pronounced than they already have been, other than we now have 24/7 media that allows to have it in our face. Looking at my own family, the rhetoric has always been there. I think of my grandmother, who was born in a small mountain town in North Georgia. She lived in the metropolitan Atlanta area for over 60 years, but she talked like a small town mountain girl. "City folk," "the big city," Rural folk have long had a chip on their shoulder about how they feel they're treated by "the town folk," -- and it's often fair criticism. Look at popular children's books written in the 1930s--the Little House series, or The Grapes of Wrath. This is not a new problem.


They are more pronounced now. Before those were differences in lifestyle preference and annoyance that cities gobbled up all tax monies. Now the claim is that people in cities are destroying ‘American life’ with theie multicultural mindset. If you work for companies hiring H1-Bs, you’re a globalist sympathizer. And that’s what you’ll hear from the hosts on Newsmax.

No denying that's what you'll hear. But let's also keep in mind that it wasn't that long ago that "multiculturalism" was called "desegregation," and bombs were set off in churches, people were shot/lynched, cities were burned. And this is the 1960s.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Official Election thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:08 am

luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
I don't see how those differences are any more pronounced than they already have been, other than we now have 24/7 media that allows to have it in our face. Looking at my own family, the rhetoric has always been there. I think of my grandmother, who was born in a small mountain town in North Georgia. She lived in the metropolitan Atlanta area for over 60 years, but she talked like a small town mountain girl. "City folk," "the big city," Rural folk have long had a chip on their shoulder about how they feel they're treated by "the town folk," -- and it's often fair criticism. Look at popular children's books written in the 1930s--the Little House series, or The Grapes of Wrath. This is not a new problem.


They are more pronounced now. Before those were differences in lifestyle preference and annoyance that cities gobbled up all tax monies. Now the claim is that people in cities are destroying ‘American life’ with theie multicultural mindset. If you work for companies hiring H1-Bs, you’re a globalist sympathizer. And that’s what you’ll hear from the hosts on Newsmax.

No denying that's what you'll hear. But let's also keep in mind that it wasn't that long ago that "multiculturalism" was called "desegregation," and bombs were set off in churches, people were shot/lynched, cities were burned. And this is the 1960s.


Good points...perhaps the takeaway here is that we have not dealt with these class and other differences as a society and that’s why it keeps cycling back.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
cpd
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Re: Official Election thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:12 am

luckyone wrote:
cpd wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

I'm inclined to agree. I don't see how the nation holds together in the long term. My prediction is the government shutdown that never ends, at which points individual states begin to form alliances and go their separate ways.


That's the best thing that can happen, the split up of the USA. We will need other powerful nations to force the nuclear disarming of the USA or threaten it with crippling sanctions. A failed state must not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

I'm going to have to disagree. I do not think this is the best thing that can happen. We've been through worse. I'm hoping that with at least some positive example of leadership at the executive level we can all calm down a little bit after a few years of the waters being chummed from the very top.


Positive leadership won’t do anything about the people who actually want to have a civil war.

A civil war is the only way I can see that the warring sides will realise just how stupidly they are acting. Sad as that is. :(
 
luckyone
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Re: Official Election thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:13 am

Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

They are more pronounced now. Before those were differences in lifestyle preference and annoyance that cities gobbled up all tax monies. Now the claim is that people in cities are destroying ‘American life’ with theie multicultural mindset. If you work for companies hiring H1-Bs, you’re a globalist sympathizer. And that’s what you’ll hear from the hosts on Newsmax.

No denying that's what you'll hear. But let's also keep in mind that it wasn't that long ago that "multiculturalism" was called "desegregation," and bombs were set off in churches, people were shot/lynched, cities were burned. And this is the 1960s.


Good points...perhaps the takeaway here is that we have not dealt with these class and other differences as a society and that’s why it keeps cycling back.

Agreed. THAT may be the thing that we have to take away from this year in general: We'll get through it. Some of us may learn something. Most of us will likely be human, and ignore it. We certainly are not alone in that regard.
 
luckyone
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Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:15 am

cpd wrote:
luckyone wrote:
cpd wrote:

That's the best thing that can happen, the split up of the USA. We will need other powerful nations to force the nuclear disarming of the USA or threaten it with crippling sanctions. A failed state must not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

I'm going to have to disagree. I do not think this is the best thing that can happen. We've been through worse. I'm hoping that with at least some positive example of leadership at the executive level we can all calm down a little bit after a few years of the waters being chummed from the very top.


Positive leadership won’t do anything about the people who actually want to have a civil war.

A civil war is the only way I can see that the warring sides will realise just how stupidly they are acting. Sad as that is. :(

I will hazard that the number of people who ACTUALLY want war are quite small--see the numbers of protesters in Portland dwindle to a few dozen hell bent on being destructive. The rest of us get caught in the rhetoric, which since 2016 has been inflamed by toxic leadership.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Official Election thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:44 am

Francoflier wrote:
which then confirmed that this election was the 'most secure in American history'.
:rotfl:


that was of course until Lindsey Graham made a call across state lines to get legally cast ballots tossed out in Georgia*....

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ns-ballots

Best regards
Thomas

*of course he claims that isn´t true, but when was the last time Graham said the truth?
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
75driver
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:02 pm

Re: Official Election thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:14 am

bgm wrote:
75driver wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Mostly because the people that pay attention to it, lack the education to ignore hyperbole, misdirection, propaganda, and marketing.


This is the most misrepresented fallacy I see repeated. Do you not think there is somewhat of a trade off between uneducated urban voters and uneducated rural voters? I would say they might even cancel each other out. As long as Democrats continue to think it’s the uneducated masses supporting republicans there will never be civil debate on the issues when that’s your starting position. This kind of thinking needs to be banished forever.


Well, ask the average Trump supporter at one of his rallies why they support Trump and why they didn't vote for Biden and get back to us on that. It's not Democrats who get sucked into these wacky conspiracy theories and believe anything the orange turd says without question. As a bonus question, feel free to ask them what socialism and/or communism actually is.


My exposure to Trump voters includes friends, neighbors and family members. Over the last few months I’ve flown all over the country. In particular I’ve spent several weeks in Florida including Destin, Miami and Ft Lauderdale. On 3 occasions I’ve been fishing with family members in both Destin and Miami. The number of multi-million dollar boats and their owners flying Trump flags was eye opening. The number of Trump signs in the yards of multi-million dollar homes was similar. I would not consider these people “uneducated” since many are business owners and/or white collar executives. They don’t match the narrative of “uneducated” at all.

I’m not a Trump voter but I wasn’t enthralled with Biden. I thought he was a poor choice for Democrats but Trump has to go. I believe the country needs to get rid of the Pelosi/McConnells of government ASAP. Their ideology represents the most divisive realms of politics and the country would be better off with more moderates in charge of both parties. One can hope but I don’t see it happening. How sad.

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