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ztarizona
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:27 am

tommy1808 wrote:
ztarizona wrote:
Dems better learn how to speak to these people if they want a hope or a prayer EVER winning ANY of the middle states again or the senate.


short of vocally supporting bans on abortion, more capital punishment and a seasoning of copying bills straight out of the Bible that may get somewhat difficult.

We already know that, when broken down into actually policy ideas, their ideas often have majority support among Republicans... sometimes very clearly (universal background checks with ~80% for example). But as soon as their is a (d) next to someones name, what they say is completely irrelevant. Then it is straight to DemonRats taking guns away and wanting to introduce communism, regardless of what the actual proposal is. .... how many Republicans believe that "defunding the police" means literally no law enforcement anywhere, despite that being a fringe position outside the Democratic party....

We see it clearly at the moment..... some 70~80% or so of Republicans believe there was wide spread election fraud and the Presidency was stolen from Trump. Despite Trumps own lawyers not, not once, claiming anything like that in any of the cases their brought and explicitly pointing out that they don´t allege fraud and there is no evidence for fraud. Even Trumps own legal Team and Trump appointed judges don´t move the believe even the slightest bit.

best regards
Thomas


Howard Dean was right Defund the police is the absolutely wrong message. As he says what they mean to say is "reform the police" and move some of the money to social workers and crisis teams who can help people to get off of addictions or off the street into some kind of affordable housing. Defund the police cannot be proclaimed in middle America or suburbs. It just cannot win. I dont even need a political science degree to know that.

Move some of the money to retraining programs so we can have the police force we need not trigger happy types we are seeing on the news of late. Sometimes its not even minorities who end up being killed (ie Ryan Whitaker in Phoenix AZ). Its just a culture of shoot first.

Unfortunately we are now a heavily militarized society and its celebrated. Per your point it is actually interesting trump confiscated bump stocks (weapons attachment) and there was little to no outcry from Rs of "cOnFiScAtIoN!"
“The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Issac Asimov
 
tommy1808
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:29 am

ztarizona wrote:
Per your point it is actually interesting trump confiscated bump stocks (weapons attachment) and there was little to no outcry from Rs of "cOnFiScAtIoN!"


Well, the power of (r) in action.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:42 am

tommy1808 wrote:
ztarizona wrote:
Per your point it is actually interesting trump confiscated bump stocks (weapons attachment) and there was little to no outcry from Rs of "cOnFiScAtIoN!"


Well, the power of (r) in action.

Best regards
Thomas


Republicans don't care when un-Republican measures come from the Republican side.

In 1990's Europe it were the Social Democrats who supported neoliberalism - with the pretext that better access to education would make EveRyBoDy competitive in the job markets.
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:32 pm

More red states joining in with Texas to throw out electoral college votes in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Georgia.

17 red states join Texas' lawsuit to throw out blue states' ballots — even though some had the same voting rules (Source: Yahoo! News)

Trump tells Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr not to contest election challenge by Texas.

Trump calls on Georgia AG not to have other Republicans oppose election lawsuit: report (Source: The Hill.com)
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:40 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
More red states joining in with Texas to throw out electoral college votes in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Georgia.

17 red states join Texas' lawsuit to throw out blue states' ballots — even though some had the same voting rules (Source: Yahoo! News)

Trump tells Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr not to contest election challenge by Texas.

Trump calls on Georgia AG not to have other Republicans oppose election lawsuit: report (Source: The Hill.com)


Awwww. This is getting ludicrous. All blue states should counter-sue, because a Republican Senate majority would impede the work of their duly elected Democratic president.
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
art
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:52 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
..... some 70~80% or so of Republicans believe there was wide spread election fraud and the Presidency was stolen from Trump. Despite Trumps own lawyers not, not once, claiming anything like that in any of the cases their brought and explicitly pointing out that they don´t allege fraud and there is no evidence for fraud. Even Trumps own legal Team and Trump appointed judges don´t move the believe even the slightest bit.

best regards
Thomas


All seems very strange to me. I find it difficult to credit that 'some 70~80% or so of Republicans believe there was wide spread election fraud...' OK, one might be drawn to believe in a fraud when the allegation is first made, but as time has gone by and no persusive evidence of fraud has been unearthed, how can people continue to entertain the notion of electoral fraud having been committed?
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1898
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:00 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
More red states joining in with Texas to throw out electoral college votes in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Georgia.

17 red states join Texas' lawsuit to throw out blue states' ballots — even though some had the same voting rules (Source: Yahoo! News)

Trump tells Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr not to contest election challenge by Texas.

Trump calls on Georgia AG not to have other Republicans oppose election lawsuit: report (Source: The Hill.com)


Awwww. This is getting ludicrous. All blue states should counter-sue, because a Republican Senate majority would impede the work of their duly elected Democratic president.


This action does not impact the Senate runoff races in Georgia. But yes, I would like to see a little more hands-on action from the Dem side of the floor regarding this case.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:41 pm

art wrote:
how can people continue to entertain the notion of electoral fraud having been committed?


Maybe it's the "Bad things cannot happen to good people!!!!" mindset...

phatfarmlines wrote:
This action does not impact the Senate runoff races in Georgia. But yes, I would like to see a little more hands-on action from the Dem side of the floor regarding this case.


Okay, it's the Senate... but... but... if the Dems had genius lawyers of the Giuliani caliber... :biggrin:
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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casinterest
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:43 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Now of course a large part of these voters will never go Democrat, but a big chunk of them have recently and could vote Dem again and the fact that in this election even MORE of them shifted to the GOP should be concerning to the Dems. That Republicans also increased their share of minority votes shows that Democrats can't just sit around and hope that urbanization and demographic trends will shift in their favor, the profile of the electorate is not static.


A large portion, about 6-7% will be dead by the next election. The minority votes that swung to Trump shouldn't have too much read into them. There is a serious jobless issue due to Covid, and some of those folks just want jobs back. When the jobs return the social issues will be paramount. The democrats can win over the majority with consise targeted messaging on education and healthcare.

Especially targeted pressure on Coal, oil, and farming. All of which are going to bigger companies with a declining share of the market. The manufacturing jobs will be locally based and ag related. We already saw the Fox Con and how that worked out in Wisconsin. Rural areas just are not attracting talent due to their lack of healthcare and lack of education.

ztarizona wrote:
Howard Dean was right Defund the police is the absolutely wrong message. As he says what they mean to say is "reform the police" and move some of the money to social workers and crisis teams who can help people to get off of addictions or off the street into some kind of affordable housing. Defund the police cannot be proclaimed in middle America or suburbs. It just cannot win. I dont even need a political science degree to know that.

Move some of the money to retraining programs so we can have the police force we need not trigger happy types we are seeing on the news of late. Sometimes its not even minorities who end up being killed (ie Ryan Whitaker in Phoenix AZ). Its just a culture of shoot first.

Unfortunately we are now a heavily militarized society and its celebrated. Per your point it is actually interesting trump confiscated bump stocks (weapons attachment) and there was little to no outcry from Rs of "cOnFiScAtIoN!"


Messaging is key, and defund the police always meant looking for social options outside of the police for people that need substance abuse treatment, family planning, family interventions, and services for kids. However the messaging coming out of Minnesota was horrible and the GOP jumped on it. This in and of itself is horrible because the GOP is not working towards a solution, they are working towards the status quo.
flyingturtle wrote:


Awwww. This is getting ludicrous. All blue states should counter-sue, because a Republican Senate majority would impede the work of their duly elected Democratic president.


It is ridiculous and a tragedy that so many GOP representatives do not respect the constitution or other states voting methods. Hopefully the Supreme Court flat out rejects this bogus case, and hopefully the voters in those states can sue these RNC organizations for attempting to violate their constitutional rights to vote.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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casinterest
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:49 pm

All 50 states have certified their election results.

Trump is just running a con and using the SWAMP to do it.

http://cnn.com/2020/12/09/politics/2020 ... index.html

)All 50 states and the District of Columbia have now certified their presidential results, according to CNN's tally, as the Electoral College process moves forward with the meeting of electors on Monday.

West Virginia became the final state to certify its presidential election results Wednesday, formally declaring that President Donald Trump is entitled to the state's five electoral votes.

President-elect Joe Biden is projected to win 306 electoral votes, and Trump is projected to win 232. It takes 270 electoral votes of the 538 available to become president.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:06 pm

casinterest wrote:
It is ridiculous and a tragedy that so many GOP representatives do not respect the constitution or other states voting methods. Hopefully the Supreme Court flat out rejects this bogus case, and hopefully the voters in those states can sue these RNC organizations for attempting to violate their constitutional rights to vote.


IMO, Texas is leading the charge on this to "scare" away rising Democratic votes within the state. Think of this as a call to lure conservatives to move to Texas to offset those transplanted Californians and New Yorkers looking to flip Texas, by showing it has gusto to challenge something as grand as the presidential election.

It also curries favor to Texas Attorney General Paxton from Trump, so it could help in a Texas AG reelection or even find a place within the Trump corporation post-election. Sounds like a mafia movie doesn't it?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:26 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It is ridiculous and a tragedy that so many GOP representatives do not respect the constitution or other states voting methods. Hopefully the Supreme Court flat out rejects this bogus case, and hopefully the voters in those states can sue these RNC organizations for attempting to violate their constitutional rights to vote.


IMO, Texas is leading the charge on this to "scare" away rising Democratic votes within the state. Think of this as a call to lure conservatives to move to Texas to offset those transplanted Californians and New Yorkers looking to flip Texas, by showing it has gusto to challenge something as grand as the presidential election.

It also curries favor to Texas Attorney General Paxton from Trump, so it could help in a Texas AG reelection or even find a place within the Trump corporation post-election. Sounds like a mafia movie doesn't it?



It won't scare away democratic votes, Texas is already growing due to many companies in the larger cities. it will continue to grow bluer and bluer.2024-2032 will be an interesting transition.
The Texas AG is doing what he can to appease a base that does not respect the constitution or the rights of other American Citizens, and it is a travesty.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
winginit
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:29 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It is ridiculous and a tragedy that so many GOP representatives do not respect the constitution or other states voting methods. Hopefully the Supreme Court flat out rejects this bogus case, and hopefully the voters in those states can sue these RNC organizations for attempting to violate their constitutional rights to vote.


IMO, Texas is leading the charge on this to "scare" away rising Democratic votes within the state. Think of this as a call to lure conservatives to move to Texas to offset those transplanted Californians and New Yorkers looking to flip Texas, by showing it has gusto to challenge something as grand as the presidential election.

It also curries favor to Texas Attorney General Paxton from Trump, so it could help in a Texas AG reelection or even find a place within the Trump corporation post-election. Sounds like a mafia movie doesn't it?


Can you imagine... can you imagine even for a second, if in 2000 during the Florida recount California, New York, and Illinois carpet bombed the state and process with lawsuits?

Republicans would have started ramping up secession plans.

It's all so pathetic.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:39 pm

art wrote:
OK, one might be drawn to believe in a fraud when the allegation is first made, but as time has gone by and no persusive evidence of fraud has been unearthed, how can people continue to entertain the notion of electoral fraud having been committed?


I think there are several factors at play.

Many Trump supporters are gullible and believe every word that comes out of his mouth. If he says there was "massive voter fraud", then, as far as they're concerned, that's an irrefutable fact. They'll happily ignore the complete and utter lack of evidence presented in court by Trump's lawyers. Of course, anything said outside court or at any kind of hearing is rock-solid, irrefutable evidence that "the lying democrats" stole the election.

They'll jump on board any conspiracy theory. It's all part of some deep-state plot to steal the election from their hero. Everyone except "true republicans" is in on it. Even Fox News has been thrown under the bus because they accepted that Biden won (and Breitbart is close behind). Anyone who questions the conspiracy is immediately tagged as a communist, baby killing, stan-worshiping, anti-American. And they mean it!

They refuse to accept any information source that doesn't 100% support or even expand their bias. It's all fake media or controlled by Russia and China. But they'll happily accept anything posted on Facebook or Twitter as gospel as long as it confirms their viewpoint.

They pray and believe god will intervene to smite the evil, left-wing communists (is there any other type of communist?) and deliver the presidency to Trump.

They believe that all Trump's legal losses up to now are all part of some secret master-plan, and despite the USSC rejecting the PA lawsuit without a single dissent, believe that the same SC will overturn the certified election results of GA, MI, PA & WI, effectively disenfranchising millions of voters because "reasons" but no evidence.

You only have to look at the comment sections on Breitbart, OAN and Gateway Pundit. They cannot be reasoned with and anyone trying (even in the most mild mannered fashion) is immediately set upon by a pack of wolves, derided for their opinion and insulted beyond belief.

Now I don't believe this is the case with all Trump supporters by any means, but it seems to be the case with a significant proportion of them. I don't know how you get back to civil discourse and simply being able to accept that someone else can have a different opinion without having to resort to attacking that person. Trump has done a great disservice to American politics.

All IMHO after reading dozens of online articles and comment sections of the sites previously mentioned.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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flyguy89
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:18 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
ztarizona wrote:
Dems better learn how to speak to these people if they want a hope or a prayer EVER winning ANY of the middle states again or the senate.


short of vocally supporting bans on abortion, more capital punishment and a seasoning of copying bills straight out of the Bible that may get somewhat difficult.

Only if you have a cartoonish perception of the working class. You used to have what they called blue dog Democrats who held a good chunk of representation in more conservative states. The official party platform can certainly continue to be pro-choice, that doesn't mean you have to be openly hostile to pro-life Democrats or Democrats who may not agree that tax dollars should fund abortion. Similarly, you can assume a mantle of American exceptionalism and pro-capitalism/anti-socialism that appeals to many of the working class while still being a proponent of progressive policies.

tommy1808 wrote:
how many Republicans believe that "defunding the police" means literally no law enforcement anywhere, despite that being a fringe position outside the Democratic party....

I said it before, but if you have to continually explain to people that when you say "defund the police" you don't really mean defund the police, you've lost the policy argument. It may have been a fringe notion within the Democratic Party, but it sucked up a lot of air time and gave Democratic candidates very little leeway to try and correct the narrative. Obama along with a number of Dem candidates have trashed the "defund the police" message as unhelpful. Same thing with "democratic socialism." If you have to always be explaining to people how Democratic socialism doesn't really mean socialism... then just stop using it. It's not a label that's ever going to work outside of perhaps a handful of congressional districts in NY, LA, or SF. Democratic socialism does not have the history in the US that it does in Europe, it will always be seen as a foreign and nefarious ideology. But if the ideas are popular and the name is not, just ditch the name.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:25 pm

winginit wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It is ridiculous and a tragedy that so many GOP representatives do not respect the constitution or other states voting methods. Hopefully the Supreme Court flat out rejects this bogus case, and hopefully the voters in those states can sue these RNC organizations for attempting to violate their constitutional rights to vote.


IMO, Texas is leading the charge on this to "scare" away rising Democratic votes within the state. Think of this as a call to lure conservatives to move to Texas to offset those transplanted Californians and New Yorkers looking to flip Texas, by showing it has gusto to challenge something as grand as the presidential election.

It also curries favor to Texas Attorney General Paxton from Trump, so it could help in a Texas AG reelection or even find a place within the Trump corporation post-election. Sounds like a mafia movie doesn't it?


Can you imagine... can you imagine even for a second, if in 2000 during the Florida recount California, New York, and Illinois carpet bombed the state and process with lawsuits?

Republicans would have started ramping up secession plans.

It's all so pathetic.

It is indeed a perplexing move that the GOP wants to open the door to having blue states suing red states over election results.
 
GDB
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:31 pm

'Grand Old Party?'
More like Flat Earth Party.
 
luckyone
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:43 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
ztarizona wrote:
Dems better learn how to speak to these people if they want a hope or a prayer EVER winning ANY of the middle states again or the senate.


short of vocally supporting bans on abortion, more capital punishment and a seasoning of copying bills straight out of the Bible that may get somewhat difficult.

Only if you have a cartoonish perception of the working class. You used to have what they called blue dog Democrats who held a good chunk of representation in more conservative states. The official party platform can certainly continue to be pro-choice, that doesn't mean you have to be openly hostile to pro-life Democrats or Democrats who may not agree that tax dollars should fund abortion. Similarly, you can assume a mantle of American exceptionalism and pro-capitalism/anti-socialism that appeals to many of the working class while still being a proponent of progressive policies.

tommy1808 wrote:
how many Republicans believe that "defunding the police" means literally no law enforcement anywhere, despite that being a fringe position outside the Democratic party....

I said it before, but if you have to continually explain to people that when you say "defund the police" you don't really mean defund the police, you've lost the policy argument. It may have been a fringe notion within the Democratic Party, but it sucked up a lot of air time and gave Democratic candidates very little leeway to try and correct the narrative. Obama along with a number of Dem candidates have trashed the "defund the police" message as unhelpful. Same thing with "democratic socialism." If you have to always be explaining to people how Democratic socialism doesn't really mean socialism... then just stop using it. It's not a label that's ever going to work outside of perhaps a handful of congressional districts in NY, LA, or SF. Democratic socialism does not have the history in the US that it does in Europe, it will always be seen as a foreign and nefarious ideology. But if the ideas are popular and the name is not, just ditch the name.

Yup, that narrative likely cost the Democrats a bigger majority in the House.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:59 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
ztarizona wrote:
Dems better learn how to speak to these people if they want a hope or a prayer EVER winning ANY of the middle states again or the senate.


short of vocally supporting bans on abortion, more capital punishment and a seasoning of copying bills straight out of the Bible that may get somewhat difficult.

Only if you have a cartoonish perception of the working class. You used to have what they called blue dog Democrats who held a good chunk of representation in more conservative states.


What percentage of Republicans still support Trump? Of course those few percent that do have principles involved in how they vote can indeed swing some places. Hence I concede the point.

I said it before, but if you have to continually explain to people that when you say "defund the police" you don't really mean defund the police, you've lost the policy argument.


Oh, as far as slogans go its is right on top the stupid ones. My point is more that the very few Republicans accept "defunding the police" doesn't mean what they think it means even after having it explained in detail, and proven that it that position is nowhere to be fund in the democratic party, change their mind or even accept that it is a very fringe position.
It's a bit like trying to get a Trump voter to read the Mueller report. They just don't.

Same thing with "democratic socialism." If you have to always be explaining to people how Democratic socialism doesn't really mean socialism... then just stop using it. It's not a label that's ever going to work outside of perhaps a handful of congressional districts in NY, LA, or SF. Democratic socialism does not have the history in the US that it does in Europe,


The United States is already a Republic with democratic socialism. Even with universal taxpayer funded healthcare, at least if you need dialysis. Just to a smaller extend than in many other places.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
bgm
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:04 pm

The GOP of today are nothing but repulsive scum. Absolute scum. The cult of Trump has truly brought out the worst of the worst. To attack the democratic institutions that the US should be proud of, all because their cult leader lost?

They're nothing but vile traitors. You literally can't get any more un-American than this.
 
luckyone
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:11 pm

In the next scene of "This Our Election" soap opera, the outgoing and incoming governors of Utah state they do not agree with the Utah AG filing an amicus brief in Texas v Pennsylvania.
https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... b209b3f90e
 
ltbewr
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:01 pm

There should be no further argument when the EC vote is taken next week that Biden will in fact and by law to be the President come 12:01 PM 1/20/21. All states have certified their results.as of today. The time to challenge the states results is over and the pending Texas v. Pennsylvania, et al..application for certiorari is likely to be denied by the US Supreme Court on grounds of lack of standing by the Appellant the Texas Attorney General. We need to get Donald Trump to admit he lost, concede and get on with the transition to Biden.
 
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seb146
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:07 pm

I wonder what is in it for these people who file on behalf of MAGA to overturn the election? I had heard the Texas AG is wanting a pardon, but others?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:10 pm

ltbewr wrote:
We need to get Donald Trump to admit he lost, concede and get on with the transition to Biden.


I don't think he'll ever concede - that would mean showing that he accepted he lost. That's something his fragile ego won't allow, so he'll leave kicking and screaming and will claim for the rest of his life that this election was stolen.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
luckyone
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:18 pm

seb146 wrote:
I wonder what is in it for these people who file on behalf of MAGA to overturn the election? I had heard the Texas AG is wanting a pardon, but others?

IMHO it's reflective of a fractious GOP just under the surface that doesn't know which direction to head post-Trump. Currently, in the amici filings there are different factions from within Pennsylvania filing for the SCOTUS to review, including the Speaker of the House -- the guy who voted for the damn bill in the first place and oversaw its voting into law.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:16 pm

seb146 wrote:
I wonder what is in it for these people who file on behalf of MAGA to overturn the election? I had heard the Texas AG is wanting a pardon, but others?


They know what their base believes. They know the GOP base hates Democrats so much they applaud the overturning of the result and Trump remaining in power. Of course republican voters have put themselves in a “safe space” where Trump actually won and Biden cheated, which justifies their backing of a loser.

So if state GOP parties back this legal challenge then at re-election time they can boast “I stood by our real President, Donald Trump, and tried to stop the Democrats who stole the election”. In 2022/24 that will drive Republican voters to the polls.

Say what you will about Republican lunacy they know where their base is. If Democrats realised their base wants some decent FDR style social programs then they’d increase their support.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:35 pm

Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Michigan have responded to the Lawsuit

I think all the retorts

can be best summed up as
This lawsuit was written up by people that have no facts to support their claims, and they are in the wrong place to make such a claim.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/10/politics ... index.html

""Texas's effort to get this Court to pick the next President has no basis in law or fact. The Court should not abide this seditious abuse of the judicial process, and should send a clear and unmistakable signal that such abuse must never be replicated," wrote Pennsylvania Attorney General Josh Shapiro."


"The challenge here is an unprecedented one, without factual foundation or a valid legal basis," Michigan's brief said.


Chris Carr, the attorney general of Georgia, put more emphasis on the federalism implications of Texas' lawsuit in his filing. "Texas presses a generalized grievance that does not involve the sort of direct state-against-state controversy required for original jurisdiction," he wrote.
"And in any case, there is another forum in which parties who (unlike Texas) have standing can challenge Georgia's compliance with its own election laws: Georgia's own courts."


Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Kaul similarly cast the lawsuit as an "extraordinary intrusion into Wisconsin's and the other defendant States' elections, a task that the Constitution leaves to each State."



Meanwhile the most dishonorable and yet safest seats have signed on from Congress. These congressman are not leaders. They fail to uphold the constitution they swore upon their own sacred bibles to defend.

Despite the slate of inaccurate claims driving the lawsuit, more than 100 House Republicans signed on to an amicus brief in support of Paxton's motion.
Notable Republican leadership names on this list include House Minority Whip Steve Scalise and Republican Policy Committee Chairman Gary Palmer.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
afcjets
Posts: 3806
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:46 am

This updated title reminds me of what the media has been doing. Let's reassure each other Joe is going to be President no matter what transpires.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:52 am

afcjets wrote:
This updated title reminds me of what the media has been doing. Let's reassure each other Joe is going to be President no matter what transpires.


It’s accurate because it reflects reality, not whatever the media is doing. Feelings don’t change math, or the evidentiary bar in court.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14563
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:06 am

casinterest wrote:
this seditious abuse of the judicial process.


Josh Shapiro may make a good AG in DC. Seems to me he is pretty direct in how he thinks this should go into courts.

best regards
Thomas
Last edited by tommy1808 on Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:06 am

afcjets wrote:
This updated title reminds me of what the media has been doing. Let's reassure each other Joe is going to be President no matter what transpires.

Well, that’s their job. They report about tomorrow’s weather, about upcoming events... ah, and by the way, they inform you about the next president. Actually a nice service, isn’t it?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:12 am

N14AZ wrote:
afcjets wrote:
This updated title reminds me of what the media has been doing. Let's reassure each other Joe is going to be President no matter what transpires.

Well, that’s their job. They report about tomorrow’s weather, about upcoming events... ah, and by the way, they inform you about the next president. Actually a nice service, isn’t it?


its hilarious, isn´t it?

None of the cases brought by the Trump team even alleges fraud, none alleges errors sufficient to change the outcome, Trumps own appointed Judges throw his frivolous cases out left and right, states have certified their result ... but assuming Biden has won is still wrong.

Logically afcjets obviously could not have celebrated Trumps win before January 2017.....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3382
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:26 am

tommy1808 wrote:
What percentage of Republicans still support Trump? Of course those few percent that do have principles involved in how they vote can indeed swing some places. Hence I concede the point.

Have to keep in mind as well that not all Trump voters are registered Republicans.

tommy1808 wrote:
My point is more that the very few Republicans accept "defunding the police" doesn't mean what they think it means even after having it explained in detail, and proven that it that position is nowhere to be fund in the democratic party, change their mind or even accept that it is a very fringe position.
It's a bit like trying to get a Trump voter to read the Mueller report. They just don't.

You're right, many still won't, but some will. And at the very least, don't allow stupid slogans that are only going to hurt you dominate your national brand.

tommy1808 wrote:
The United States is already a Republic with democratic socialism. Even with universal taxpayer funded healthcare, at least if you need dialysis. Just to a smaller extend than in many other places.

Best regards
Thomas

That's beside the point though. In the US, for numerous reasons, the word and label of "socialism" is indelibly linked to poverty and tyranny...so why fight a losing battle to popularize and embrace an unimportant label and instead focus on policy? There shouldn't be that much of divide in the Democratic Party in being pro-capitalism and pro-progressive policies...unless one sincerely believes in the government seizing the means of production.
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 199
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:53 am

afcjets wrote:
This updated title reminds me of what the media has been doing. Let's reassure each other Joe is going to be President no matter what transpires.


I’m curious what you think may transpire. Pray tell.
 
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c933103
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:36 am

casinterest wrote:
c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


They are uneducated. My Facbook feed is filled with people that never did the work in high school, work for low wages in dying industries, and then they blame others for their own failings while drinking the drug stream of lies from right wing liars .
The Democrats are not going to win those folks back. The ones they can win back are the ones that realize that there is a better way forward than the lies of the right.


This all assumes the GOP continues on it's current self destructive populistically popular but Venezuelan program of robbing from the poor.

Uneducated or not those people you're describing are still part of the population


They are part of the population, and as much as the rest of the world tries to help them, they continue to run back to their drug of choice which is being suspicious of those trying to help them

They want to engorge themselves with lies from fox news, they can, They want to think the rest of the world hates them, they can. They want to cheer on 50 billion challenges to a legal election based on lies from a known liar, they can. But at the end of the day, it is better to help those that actually work hard, and want better things.

United States is not an authoritarian states. Even if it is indeed better, it's simply wrong to force someone else to be better in the same way that it is wrong to tell people stop drinking alochol or tell people they should become "civilized" by following European tradition and culture.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
tommy1808
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:39 am

flyguy89 wrote:
That's beside the point though. In the US, for numerous reasons, the word and label of "socialism" is indelibly linked to poverty and tyranny...so why fight a losing battle to popularize and embrace an unimportant label and instead focus on policy? There shouldn't be that much of divide in the Democratic Party in being pro-capitalism and pro-progressive policies...unless one sincerely believes in the government seizing the means of production.


i know. Hence atheists often rather identify as Satanists, because for plenty of people that is still better..... omm

But i think that is always the wrong approach and political correctness gone nuclear. Decades off letting "the US is a Republic, not a Democracy" stand fairly unopposed led to plenty stopping to care about the US having democratic elections, culminating in the open embrace of dictatorship we see now. Where it is totally acceptable to put Supreme court judges on the bench with the explicit, stated purpose to overturn election not turning out the way the president wants.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
bennett123
Posts: 10816
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:29 am

It is better to be a Satanist than an Atheist.

Really?.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14563
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:43 am

bennett123 wrote:
It is better to be a Satanist than an Atheist.

Really?.


Most Satanists in the US are Atheists, they just avoid the label, because: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... study.html

(i know, daily mail, but the actual study is behind a paywall)

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
bennett123
Posts: 10816
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:59 pm

I had forgotten why I never read the Daily Mail.

Thanks for reminding me.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13544
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:10 pm

afcjets wrote:
This updated title reminds me of what the media has been doing. Let's reassure each other Joe is going to be President no matter what transpires.



What? Are you planning something other than the peaceful transfer guaranteed by the US electoral process? A coup or sedition?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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casinterest
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:13 pm

c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Uneducated or not those people you're describing are still part of the population


They are part of the population, and as much as the rest of the world tries to help them, they continue to run back to their drug of choice which is being suspicious of those trying to help them

They want to engorge themselves with lies from fox news, they can, They want to think the rest of the world hates them, they can. They want to cheer on 50 billion challenges to a legal election based on lies from a known liar, they can. But at the end of the day, it is better to help those that actually work hard, and want better things.

United States is not an authoritarian states. Even if it is indeed better, it's simply wrong to force someone else to be better in the same way that it is wrong to tell people stop drinking alochol or tell people they should become "civilized" by following European tradition and culture.


Where did I say I was forcing them too? You have to ignore them, but still put pressure on the entertainment sources that masquerade as news.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
bgm
Posts: 2535
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:36 pm

afcjets wrote:
This updated title reminds me of what the media has been doing. Let's reassure each other Joe is going to be President no matter what transpires.


Are you trolling or high on the Trump kool-aid? Biden won the election. By quite a significant margin. Trump's lawyers, in each lawsuit, claim there is no fraud once they're in the courtroom under oath. The sooner deluded people such as yourself come to terms that Trump lost, the sooner this country can move on.

Oh, and just in case you missed it, more than 3000 people died yesterday from Covid. That's a 9/11 number of deaths.
Last edited by bgm on Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:36 pm

afcjets wrote:
This updated title reminds me of what the media has been doing. Let's reassure each other Joe is going to be President no matter what transpires.

Well... yes, and do you otherwise expect? It is factual and true.

What else would you rather the media do? Tell lies and say the US is failing and that non-democratic means will succeed in upending our 244 year old republic?

I must say that I do not understand the few people I talk to that for some reason reject what reality has shown, what earnest and true people, working hard at their jobs have found: That the election had integrity, that the election process was robust, and this was found after having THOUSANDS of "loyal Trump followers" investigating and looking for any proof failure in the system and finding none of any consequence. The otherwise perfectly rational people seem to want to follow a different principle, the principle of cult, more similar to what China has with Xi than what America is at its heart: Free.

“The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command,” George Orwell - 1984.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
tommy1808
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:15 pm

Tugger wrote:
the principle of cult, more similar to what China has with Xi


Its quite shocking to see how many Trump fanatics on Twitter want to repurpose Gitmo as a concentration camp for democrats. For re-education. Chinese dictatorship 101.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:24 pm

ztarizona wrote:

Howard Dean was right Defund the police is the absolutely wrong message. As he says what they mean to say is "reform the police" and move some of the money to social workers and crisis teams who can help people to get off of addictions or off the street into some kind of affordable housing. Defund the police cannot be proclaimed in middle America or suburbs. It just cannot win. I dont even need a political science degree to know that.

Move some of the money to retraining programs so we can have the police force we need not trigger happy types we are seeing on the news of late. Sometimes its not even minorities who end up being killed (ie Ryan Whitaker in Phoenix AZ). Its just a culture of shoot first.

Unfortunately we are now a heavily militarized society and its celebrated. Per your point it is actually interesting trump confiscated bump stocks (weapons attachment) and there was little to no outcry from Rs of "cOnFiScAtIoN!"


Actually there are many, including the wife of mayor of NYC that don't want any police or very little police presence.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politi ... story.html

They have to be militarized in case we get the riots we have gotten in the last few months or the whole city would be burned to the ground. It's not celebrated and it's not there to attack people of color. This is a mantra that is pushed by the MSM every time a bad cop does something as a way to smear the whole department. It's totally ridiculous and it's why it was rejected at the ballot box. They didn't mean to say reform the police they meant defund. The fringe on the left loathes authority and it's obvious. They just can't believe they were called on it and lost house seats and they and Biden is trying to avoid 2024 being another 2010 which they are well on their way to getting with the AOC faction of the party being celebrated as they are on the MSM daily.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3968
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:11 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
ztarizona wrote:

Howard Dean was right Defund the police is the absolutely wrong message. As he says what they mean to say is "reform the police" and move some of the money to social workers and crisis teams who can help people to get off of addictions or off the street into some kind of affordable housing. Defund the police cannot be proclaimed in middle America or suburbs. It just cannot win. I dont even need a political science degree to know that.

Move some of the money to retraining programs so we can have the police force we need not trigger happy types we are seeing on the news of late. Sometimes its not even minorities who end up being killed (ie Ryan Whitaker in Phoenix AZ). Its just a culture of shoot first.

Unfortunately we are now a heavily militarized society and its celebrated. Per your point it is actually interesting trump confiscated bump stocks (weapons attachment) and there was little to no outcry from Rs of "cOnFiScAtIoN!"


Actually there are many, including the wife of mayor of NYC that don't want any police or very little police presence.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politi ... story.html

They have to be militarized in case we get the riots we have gotten in the last few months or the whole city would be burned to the ground. It's not celebrated and it's not there to attack people of color. This is a mantra that is pushed by the MSM every time a bad cop does something as a way to smear the whole department. It's totally ridiculous and it's why it was rejected at the ballot box. They didn't mean to say reform the police they meant defund. The fringe on the left loathes authority and it's obvious. They just can't believe they were called on it and lost house seats and they and Biden is trying to avoid 2024 being another 2010 which they are well on their way to getting with the AOC faction of the party being celebrated as they are on the MSM daily.

A convenient strawman considering she's not an elected official. The First Lady of the United States has taken a public stance against cyber-bullying...and we all know how influential THAT appears to be on her husband.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:50 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Actually there are many, including the wife of mayor of NYC that don't want any police or very little police presence.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politi ... story.html


Bless, but you only need to start worrying when she actually runs for mayor. :yes:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
NIKV69
Topic Author
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:16 pm

luckyone wrote:
A convenient strawman considering she's not an elected official. The First Lady of the United States has taken a public stance against cyber-bullying...and we all know how influential THAT appears to be on her husband.


Not a Strawman at all. most of the fringe left elected officials have been saying it and now they are panicking because it blew up in their face.

scbriml wrote:
Bless, but you only need to start worrying when she actually runs for mayor. :yes:


I applaud your support of her but I don't have to do anything I don't live in the city and by the time that election if over there won't be anything left of NYC. Her husband and Cuomo have already destroyed it.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
bennett123
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:21 pm

Sure there are some fringe far right people out there as well.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11231
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Re: Updated: Biden officially secures enough electors to become president

Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:23 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Not a Strawman at all. most of the fringe left elected officials have been saying it and now they are panicking because it blew up in their face.

OK, then I assume you can provides link to and names for those in power that are advocating this? I know I have seen a bunch of wannabe's and protestors and statements form various groups. But nothing much from anyone holding positions that can affect this. In fact I have been seeing a lot of people talking about how dumb that would be and resisting it (even though they get social media blowback for it).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey

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