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art
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:40 am

With regard to the current focus on the AZ vaccine where blood clotting is concerned, I hope that the big increase in the rate of vaccination planned to start in UK from March 15 will not be delayed. Less than 9 million doses were administered in England Feb 12 - Mar 11. I understand that 19 million doses are expected to be delivered to UK in March - almost double what was administered in UK in the last 28 days. I would be very disappointed if a large proportion were AZ vaccine, distribution were delayed and the vaccination rates were very adversely affected.

In England we vaccinated over 0.9% of the population in one day at the end of January. With many more vaccination centres now and 19 million doses reportedly becoming available to the UK in March, we should be able to raise the level of those having received a first dose from 35% today to close to 60% in the next 28 days - barring an AZ availability delay.

I'm still waiting to be jabbed but if the data say there is no increase in the risk of clotting from the AZ vaccine, I will have no hesitation in accepting it. I just don't want the UK authorities to slow things down by re-checking data already checked by the EMA.
Last edited by art on Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Challenger007
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:45 am

c933103 wrote:
https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/3452078
Report: China only let its vaccine to be used on those who age between 18-59 due to lack of experimental data on elderly
But many countries that have accepted Chinese vaccines decided to prioritize vaccination for elderly.



As they say, they will test it. This is the decision of the government of a particular country and the decision of each person whether to get vaccinated or not. There are people all over the world who voluntarily go to vaccinations for the safety of future generations. Vaccines are always tested on volunteers of all ages. Therefore, I do not see anything dangerous in the warning from China that their vaccine has not been tested in people over 60 years old. This does not mean that she is dangerous. If it were dangerous, it would not have been produced in principle.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:53 am

It bears reminding that people currently being vaccinated tend to belong to a category where mortality rate from all kinds of ailments is much higher than average, which is why they're being vaccinated before everyone else in the first place.
If we stop vaccinating and investigate to death every time someone dies a few days after receiving the shot, we'll never get out of it.

What never ceases to amaze me with this pandemic is how much people forget that thousands of people die everyday of many different other things.
The constant coverage and hysteria-inducing tapage makes it hard to remain pragmatic and objective about the information that's being circulated, often out of proper context and without the means for the general public to gauge its significance, or lack thereof.
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c933103
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:46 am

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/b126d ... 0200039d40
Japanese government say they have not previously heard of the proposal that China will provide vaccine for Tokyo Olympics, and they're also not aware of any application asking for the use of Chinese vaccine in Japan. They have also emphasized that vaccination will not be required for the Tokyo Olympics, instead infection prevention measure will focus on movement management and through testing scheme
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JJJ
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:23 pm

Francoflier wrote:
It bears reminding that people currently being vaccinated tend to belong to a category where mortality rate from all kinds of ailments is much higher than average, which is why they're being vaccinated before everyone else in the first place.


Not the AZ one. In most countries (inc. Italy and Austria) it's only recently being given to elderly people.

The deaths currently under investigation are all middle-aged. A 49-year old nurse in Austria and a 50-y.o. cop and a 43-y.o. Navy officer in Italy.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:47 pm

Francoflier wrote:
What never ceases to amaze me with this pandemic is how much people forget that thousands of people die everyday of many different other things.
The constant coverage and hysteria-inducing tapage makes it hard to remain pragmatic and objective about the information that's being circulated, often out of proper context and without the means for the general public to gauge its significance, or lack thereof.

That is worth repeating.

In the USA, the "expected" number of deaths is 59,000 or so per week (this time of year):
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... 20occurred.
Now allways ignore the latest two weeks of data (I've watched my sister unable to submit a death certificate when a patient's death really bothered her and then the paperwork takes time to go through the system as there must be a doctor doing the paper at some point in the process).

There is so much hysteria it is ridiculous. In populations where 1 in 1000 have died of Coronavirus, there is concern for 3 from blood clots where people are avoiding what will save thousands over the next year for 3 over-hyped.

Considering how much Oxford-AstraZeneca deliveries to the EU are being cut, this might be academic:
https://news.yahoo.com/astrazeneca-furt ... 31826.html

A mere 30.1 million doses. Let those who want it have it to slow the virus.

NovaVax did well. Hopefully it is approved by someone soon and distributed soon, but everything is first deliveries next quarter:
https://news.yahoo.com/novavax-vaccine- ... 07421.html

Florida is no scheduling age 60+ for vaccines. :hyper:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/corona ... 87368.html

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art
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:44 pm

Spanish health services have already administered all the doses from a batch of AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine that some countries suspect may cause severe side effects, Health Minister Carolina Darias said on Friday.

"This batch was already supplied and distributed," Darias said on Spanish RNE radio station on Friday.

She said the country's monitoring system to follow up on people after vaccination had only detected light side effects such as headaches, dizziness and intestinal troubles.


https://news.yahoo.com/spain-used-suspe ... 03111.html

No clotting problems in Spain reported from the suspect AZ vaccine batch.
 
JJJ
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:55 pm

art wrote:
Spanish health services have already administered all the doses from a batch of AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine that some countries suspect may cause severe side effects, Health Minister Carolina Darias said on Friday.

"This batch was already supplied and distributed," Darias said on Spanish RNE radio station on Friday.

She said the country's monitoring system to follow up on people after vaccination had only detected light side effects such as headaches, dizziness and intestinal troubles.


https://news.yahoo.com/spain-used-suspe ... 03111.html

No clotting problems in Spain reported from the suspect AZ vaccine batch.


Nevertheless two regions (healthcare in Spain is managed at the regional level) are stopping further application of the dose belonging to that batch.

https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20210 ... eneca.html

The biggest police union also urges the government to follow up all applications since a lot of cops were among the vaccinated with this batch.
 
art
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:56 pm

JJJ wrote:
art wrote:
Spanish health services have already administered all the doses from a batch of AstraZeneca's COVID-19 vaccine that some countries suspect may cause severe side effects, Health Minister Carolina Darias said on Friday.

"This batch was already supplied and distributed," Darias said on Spanish RNE radio station on Friday.

She said the country's monitoring system to follow up on people after vaccination had only detected light side effects such as headaches, dizziness and intestinal troubles.


https://news.yahoo.com/spain-used-suspe ... 03111.html

No clotting problems in Spain reported from the suspect AZ vaccine batch.


Nevertheless two regions (healthcare in Spain is managed at the regional level) are stopping further application of the dose belonging to that batch.

https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20210 ... eneca.html

The biggest police union also urges the government to follow up all applications since a lot of cops were among the vaccinated with this batch.


What I don't understand is that I have read that EMA data show no abnormal level of clotting in AZ vaccine recipients yet the reaction is what one might expect if EMA data showed there were an abnormal level of clotting in AZ vaccine recipients.
Last edited by art on Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:59 pm

CaptainHaresh wrote:

Nobody is hoping for the vaccines to flop.

Pfizer's PR might as well state that their vaccines give you wings.
Why aren't we seeing the results that we hoped for at the macro scale?

Israel is doing worse than many countries that have minimal vaccination rates, as shown by Worldometers and the Israeli Health Ministry dashboard.
They should have been doing much better by now, where is the expected spectacular drop in numbers?

If I can be honest with you, from the potato farmer to the prime ministers, they are all clinging on to hope, complaining and not doing their part in ending this ordeal.
They are trying to cheat their way around this complacency with the vaccines.
I'm afraid that's all this is.


What in the Israel figures makes you believe that the vaccine is not working?
The trends are down, for both confirmed cases and deaths. Yes, people are still getting sick and dying, but unless you know whether any of them was vaccinated, by how many doses and how long ago, along with when they got diagnosed and when their case became more severe, not forgetting the delay in tallying up the figures, then you have no way of backing this hypothesis of yours that the vaccine doesn't work...
Until then, I'll listen to the official word from informed people who actually crunch that data and who all tell us that the vaccine works in the vast majority of caes. Anything else is pure uninformed speculation or conspiracy theories.

Remember that the vaccine needs a time to be effective after the second dose, and that Israel has still ways to go before (almost) everyone is vaccinated with two doses and all have those antibodies have had time to do their thing.
Nevertheless, the downwards trend is there... unless you were expecting every counter to fall to zero overnight, which is not how it works.
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:49 pm

As mentioned earlier in the thread no link has been found between the AZ vaccine and the blood cloths which was stated by EMA yesterday:
30 cases out of 5 million doses/jabs is 30/5000000 = 0,000006 where 1.0 would be 100 percent.

The EMA said Thursday that there had been 30 cases of so-called thromboembolic events among five million people who had received the jab in Europe.

But European countries could still keep using the vaccine, the EU's drug regulator said.

Harris said that while a few countries had, as a precaution, suspended the use of a specific batch of AstraZeneca vaccine distributed in Europe, based on reports of blood coagulation disorders, "a causal relationship has not been shown".

"Vaccination against Covid-19 doesn't reduce deaths from any other causes," she said.

"As of March 9, there have been over 268 million doses of Covid-19 vaccines administered since the start of the pandemic.

"No causes of death have been found to have been caused by Covid-19 vaccines to date."


So overall all vaccines approved so far seems to be very safe.

WHO also says that the vaccine is safe and that there is no reasons to halt vaccination.

The World Health Organization said Friday there was no reason to stop using AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine after several countries suspended the rollout over blood clot fears.

The WHO, which said its vaccines advisory committee was examining the safety data coming in, stressed that no causal link had been established between the vaccine and clotting.


https://www.barrons.com/news/no-reason- ... 05?tesla=y (AFP is original source for both quotes, link is from AFP social media post).

And as we all know, some people are allergic to some medicines.

Allergic reactions have been noted as side effects for both AZ (and Pfizer) per reports below:

Severe allergies should be added to the possible side effects of AstraZeneca's coronavirus vaccine after
likely links were found to a number of cases in Britain, the EU's drug regulator said on Friday

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-03- ... ccine.html

The regulators issued the warning after two health care workers, both with such a history, had a serious reaction, anaphylaxis,
after receiving the vaccine on the first day it became available in Britain.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/heal ... rgies.html
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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:28 pm

Francoflier wrote:
CaptainHaresh wrote:

Nobody is hoping for the vaccines to flop.

Pfizer's PR might as well state that their vaccines give you wings.
Why aren't we seeing the results that we hoped for at the macro scale?

Israel is doing worse than many countries that have minimal vaccination rates, as shown by Worldometers and the Israeli Health Ministry dashboard.
They should have been doing much better by now, where is the expected spectacular drop in numbers?

If I can be honest with you, from the potato farmer to the prime ministers, they are all clinging on to hope, complaining and not doing their part in ending this ordeal.
They are trying to cheat their way around this complacency with the vaccines.
I'm afraid that's all this is.


What in the Israel figures makes you believe that the vaccine is not working?
The trends are down, for both confirmed cases and deaths. Yes, people are still getting sick and dying, but unless you know whether any of them was vaccinated, by how many doses and how long ago, along with when they got diagnosed and when their case became more severe, not forgetting the delay in tallying up the figures, then you have no way of backing this hypothesis of yours that the vaccine doesn't work...
Until then, I'll listen to the official word from informed people who actually crunch that data and who all tell us that the vaccine works in the vast majority of caes. Anything else is pure uninformed speculation or conspiracy theories.

Remember that the vaccine needs a time to be effective after the second dose, and that Israel has still ways to go before (almost) everyone is vaccinated with two doses and all have those antibodies have had time to do their thing.
Nevertheless, the downwards trend is there... unless you were expecting every counter to fall to zero overnight, which is not how it works.

I agree with you, to add, people are not vaccinated until 2 weeks after the last dose (only one for J&J). The majority cannot add in a time delay.

No nation has vaccinated enough, yet, to meaningfully protect the unVacs. If the unvacvinated are relying on the vaccinated to protect them:

Good news, initial results (I posted links above) show vaccines reduce the chance of the vaccinated passing on an infection by 65% to 80%.

Bad news, kids are not vaccinated nor all adults. So the overall spread is high enough to get into unvac communities and rip through them. My model shows that the social butterflies will bring in Coronavirus into their communities again and again getting pickets of the vulnerable. The UnVac communities never shake it off. They are in trouble until vaccinated enough to end this disease.

Lightsaber

Late addition
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/study-u ... 16703.html

When it comes to unvaccinated people, however, the danger of the virus is still very real. According to the analysis in the study, unvaccinated individuals were 44 times more likely to develop symptomatic Covid-19 and 29 times more likely to die from Covid-19 than those who had received the vaccine.

Herd immunity doesn't mean no one gets sick or no one dies. It simply means the risk is low enough to live a normal life.

The full data hasn't been released. I wonder what the data shows when it is unvacvinated vs. those who didn't show symptoms until 2+ weeks after 2nd vaccination? :scratchchin:

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art
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:10 pm

I am wondering, has the WHO or some other prominent health body looked into how to deal - in terms of immunisation - with people who have tested positive for COVID-19 and who have recovered (later tested negative)? Has a strategy for securing immunity for these people been devised or implemented?

My non-medically informed view is that it would be useful for the scientific community to have an informed policy regarding (a) when to vaccinate people who have recovered from being infected (b) whether to give just a booster (c) if just a booster, when is best to give it?

Developing a policy on vaccination for recovered people has a bearing on best use of available stocks of vaccine. If they don't need 2 jabs but only a booster, more people can be protected sooner with the 2 dose vaccines in use up to now.

Anyone know of any research into how best to deal with immunising recovered COVID-19 infectees?
 
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:49 am

art wrote:
I am wondering, has the WHO or some other prominent health body looked into how to deal - in terms of immunisation - with people who have tested positive for COVID-19 and who have recovered (later tested negative)? Has a strategy for securing immunity for these people been devised or implemented?

My non-medically informed view is that it would be useful for the scientific community to have an informed policy regarding (a) when to vaccinate people who have recovered from being infected (b) whether to give just a booster (c) if just a booster, when is best to give it?

Developing a policy on vaccination for recovered people has a bearing on best use of available stocks of vaccine. If they don't need 2 jabs but only a booster, more people can be protected sooner with the 2 dose vaccines in use up to now.

Anyone know of any research into how best to deal with immunising recovered COVID-19 infectees?

I don't know if the WHO has a plan, but if you are vaccinated within 12 weeks of having Covid19, one dose should be sufficient or a while ago I posted in this thread that people who had it before have 10x the antibodies after dose 2.

But as to research, we are winging it.

Research with Pfizer is promising, but only a few studies:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1erAPB


One of the studies — done by the University College London and Public Health England — followed 51 health workers in London who submitted results of antibody tests. About half had been infected with COVID-19. Those who got a single dose of Pfizer’s vaccine had a more than 140-fold protection against the virus.
The second study — published from Imperial College London — followed 72 health workers who got the vaccine in December 2020. One dose of the Pfizer vaccine created a strong antibody response as well.


We need a longer term plan broadcast.
I personally like the UK plan of one jab for everyone except a second for the riskiest until everyone gets a jab. But if you want enough research to support this plan, I don't see it.

Lightsaber

It would certainly make a difference around where I live. Official estimate is 37.5% already had Covid19, most didn't know it:

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ary-widely
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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:06 am

UAE is giving some a 3rd dose as that vaccine is not giving enough of an immune response:
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/covid- ... wxK3qNVPdE

I think all of us need a booster this fall, so this will be more common. However, I have concerns as so many in the UAE are not vaccinated.

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c933103
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:40 am

lightsaber wrote:
UAE is giving some a 3rd dose as that vaccine is not giving enough of an immune response:
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/covid- ... wxK3qNVPdE

I think all of us need a booster this fall, so this will be more common. However, I have concerns as so many in the UAE are not vaccinated.

Lightsaber

This is specifically talking about Sinopharm vaccine.
https://ojo-publico.com/2549/version-de ... 9-es-falsa
https://larepublica.pe/verificador/2021 ... s-en-peru/
The vaccine reportedly only have 11.5% efficiency rate according to phase 3 trial preliminary data in Peru.
So it make some sense for them to try to see if additional shot would result in better result or not.
(The original report contain information being debunked, as it's claimed that the vaccine trial data is from vaccine produced by Wuhan subsidiary instead of Beijing subsidiary of Sinopharm, aka a different one from the one Peruvian government have ordered, but to us non-Peruvian it mean there are indeed one of their vaccine being produced that come with such data. It also claimed the measurement was taken by measuring PCR positivity which isn't the "correct" way to measure vaccine effectiveness and should instead measure symptomatic patient rate)
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Derico
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:05 am

It is also the reality that there are several new variants in South America (particularly the tropical regions), and that I'm almost to the point of actually recommending friends in Argentina to NOT get vaccinated, since any currently available vaccine that could be offered is simply 0% tested against the CURRENT situation in their region, and just keep isolating through the winter. It's almost better to have no vaccine and thus feel the need to protect oneself than to have a completely false sense of security with ineffective vaccines. Furthermore, ineffective vaccines may actually promote new variants by keeping lingering infections in the system.
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c933103
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:44 am

Derico wrote:
It is also the reality that there are several new variants in South America (particularly the tropical regions), and that I'm almost to the point of actually recommending friends in Argentina to NOT get vaccinated, since any currently available vaccine that could be offered is simply 0% tested against the CURRENT situation in their region, and just keep isolating through the winter. It's almost better to have no vaccine and thus feel the need to protect oneself than to have a completely false sense of security with ineffective vaccines. Furthermore, ineffective vaccines may actually promote new variants by keeping lingering infections in the system.

Isn't the main variant strain in South America also featuring N501Y and E484K mutations, just like the mutation in the South Africa strain?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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Derico
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:54 am

c933103 wrote:
Derico wrote:
It is also the reality that there are several new variants in South America (particularly the tropical regions), and that I'm almost to the point of actually recommending friends in Argentina to NOT get vaccinated, since any currently available vaccine that could be offered is simply 0% tested against the CURRENT situation in their region, and just keep isolating through the winter. It's almost better to have no vaccine and thus feel the need to protect oneself than to have a completely false sense of security with ineffective vaccines. Furthermore, ineffective vaccines may actually promote new variants by keeping lingering infections in the system.

Isn't the main variant strain in South America also featuring N501Y and E484K mutations, just like the mutation in the South Africa strain?


Apparently there are a bunch of new ones. One from South East Brazil, another from Manaus which is causing a bit of a disaster there, but I don't know how far it has spread to the rest of Brazil. I'm guessing that's the P1 which is known. But really, for every 1 variant known, especially from remote regions, there are probably 3 others going around. Until proper identification can be performed on a mass scale, it's beginning to look pointless to vaccinate against the strains from 8 months ago. No one would get a flu shot from last year, after all.
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c933103
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:20 am

Derico wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Derico wrote:
It is also the reality that there are several new variants in South America (particularly the tropical regions), and that I'm almost to the point of actually recommending friends in Argentina to NOT get vaccinated, since any currently available vaccine that could be offered is simply 0% tested against the CURRENT situation in their region, and just keep isolating through the winter. It's almost better to have no vaccine and thus feel the need to protect oneself than to have a completely false sense of security with ineffective vaccines. Furthermore, ineffective vaccines may actually promote new variants by keeping lingering infections in the system.

Isn't the main variant strain in South America also featuring N501Y and E484K mutations, just like the mutation in the South Africa strain?


Apparently there are a bunch of new ones. One from South East Brazil, another from Manaus which is causing a bit of a disaster there, but I don't know how far it has spread to the rest of Brazil. I'm guessing that's the P1 which is known. But really, for every 1 variant known, especially from remote regions, there are probably 3 others going around. Until proper identification can be performed on a mass scale, it's beginning to look pointless to vaccinate against the strains from 8 months ago. No one would get a flu shot from last year, after all.

There are many different variants in circulation. But only some of them are significant, in the sense that they altered the receptor binding domain part of spike protein. Two most advertised mutation is first, the N501Y mutation which seems to enhance infectivity. Most noteworthy strain being mentioned on media, including the Brazil one and the South Afrucan one, include this mutation. And second one is E484K, which seems to make immune system less able to response to it even after previously infected. This mutation is found in South African strain, Brazil strain, and some others. There are dozen other mutations found in spike protein and other area of these different virus strains which differentiate them from each other, but there doesn't seems to be report of functional different caused by those other mutations.
As a result, as E484K and N501Y are also found in South African variant in addition to the variant from Brazil and they're believed to be the most significant variants impacting the virus's function, I would personally expect Brazilian strain to response to vaccines more or less similar to how the South African strain response to the vaccine since they share these two key mutations.
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StarAC17
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:25 pm

Derico wrote:
It is also the reality that there are several new variants in South America (particularly the tropical regions), and that I'm almost to the point of actually recommending friends in Argentina to NOT get vaccinated, since any currently available vaccine that could be offered is simply 0% tested against the CURRENT situation in their region, and just keep isolating through the winter. It's almost better to have no vaccine and thus feel the need to protect oneself than to have a completely false sense of security with ineffective vaccines. Furthermore, ineffective vaccines may actually promote new variants by keeping lingering infections in the system.


I do not agree with that advice. The vaccine will still provide protection against variants such as mild illness and if it doesn't provide any we are dealing with an essentially a new virus. There is also a hell of a lot of regular covid and the B1.1.7 variant that the vaccine does work against.
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WIederling
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:39 pm

art wrote:
No clotting problems in Spain reported from the suspect AZ vaccine batch.


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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:11 pm

It looks like the UK will increase their jab rate soon, but some of the press extrapolated to dates not achievable.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/vac ... 12582.html
People over the age of 50 are expected to receive an invitation for a vaccine dose over the next week, around three weeks ahead of the government's target, according to the report.
Continued impressive progress in the UK.

Survey on work, 60% of the US thinks those without vaccine should work from home:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nearl ... NewsSearch

A new Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 56 percent of Americans say that unvaccinated workers should stay home and 60 percent want to work for an employer "who requires everyone to get a coronavirus vaccine before returning to the office."

Now, since I personally cannot yet get a vaccine, I wouldn't like the requirement, but I would like to see that. I know my employer won't require a vaccine, but we have good people with health concerns who won't come in until everyone is vaccinated. So there is a choice to be made.

My opinion is that as long as the vaccines are under emergency authorizations, that people should have a choice. I'm going to get vaccinated and I will vaccinate my children, that is my informed decision. Until we get a very high vaccine rate, this virus will be just too common; so there must be incentive to get it. If that is work... So be it.

I will insist my leisure sites require a vaccine for attendees.

WIederling wrote:
art wrote:
No clotting problems in Spain reported from the suspect AZ vaccine batch.


Wine, garlic and virgin olive oil :-)

LoL

Seriously, the vaccine *might* (I am skeptical) slightly increase the chance of clotting. Since the known behaviours to stop clotting, including the diet you just recommended, are easy to follow, why not take precautions? #1 is exercise. A mere 7000 steps a day makes a world of difference. But you are correct, substitute olive oil for other fats and the heart health improves dramatically (not just clotting risk).

Get a little exercise and then get a vaccine.

LIghtsaber
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:52 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I am of the opinion a bad 4th wave is coming. It is months away from the USA or EU, but when I look at the cases out there, it is obviously coming. In my opinion, anyone not getting vaccinated who can (I know, in short supply today) is going to accelerate the spread of this virus.

At the current rate, it will take 6 months in the USA to vaccinate enough to slow this disease:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1eq7NK

Furthermore, when it comes to vaccine distribution, at-risk populations have been prioritized, which means that fewer people who get infected end up in the hospital. The New York Times reports that while new coronavirus cases have dropped by 12% over the last 14 days, hospitalizations have in turn gone down by 32%.

Quite a few people who don't understand risk are casting shade on Vaccines:
Foreign news outlets and anti-vaccine activists have also aggressively tried to cast doubt on the safety and efficacy of vaccines made in the United States and Europe.

That is a shame as vaccines dramatically reduce deaths and the spread of Covid19.

Locally, the vaccine is making those with it bold as are the young. Every day here in SoCal the number who won't wear a mask goes up, but, last I looked, over 65 were still scrambling for shots. So please restrain for a bit longer.

I posted a link before that 18.5 million shots for next week... Sigh, so close but so far.

It looks like a global uptick has started (I always look at the 7 day average):
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

While the uptick in India is clearly the seed of a 4th wave, Brazil is scary, very scary:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ry/brazil/

Thankfully, I've yet to see a report if any Vaccine not effective against the Brazil "P1" variants.

Sinovac good:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.c ... 30605.html

Pfizer good, but only lab tests:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.washingt ... Type%3damp

Johnson and Johnson proved itself early in Brazil:
https://theweek.com/speedreads/968696/m ... ica-brazil


Newer data even more encouraging (my opinion is J&J takes more time to build great immunity):
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/02/24/ ... -reported/

AZ preliminary study says it works:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/oxford- ... -says.html


Moderna is good:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.c ... 14470.html

I was unable to find a link on Sputnik V vs. the P1 varriant. Have they tested it?

Vaccines will stop people from getting crippled by the virus. As that is my #1 concern, I will get myself and my kids vaccinated ASAP. Thankfully my parents, elderly neighbors and relatives all have dose #1.

The 4th wave has started. I wonder if the USA can vaccinate fast enough to suppress it? In my opinion, the current rate of vaccinations is too slow to even notably slow the spread.

People are not mentally capable of locking down anymore. Financially we cannot either. I see so many closed small businesses.

So the only hope is faster vaccination.

Lightsaber
Late addition:
Ps why haven't we approved AZ in the USA. I agree with this link, there are one of two mistakes being made, either everyone else should stop administering AZ or the USA should.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... NewsSearch

AstraZeneca executive vice president Ruud Dobber recently told CBS News that they plan to seek approval from the FDA within the next several weeks.

Ugh, I posted before there are 60 million doses sitting in US freezers. Vaccinating another 60 million fast could have enough people vaccinated before the 4th wave hits.


Have you found anything about COVID-19 vaccine trials for children? Sure they are the least affected demographic for now, but it's very difficult for families to travel together if adults are vaccinated but not the children. My wife wants to take our one year old son overseas to meet friends and family, but the prospect of have to quarantine both directions is not appealing.
 
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:09 pm

c933103 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
UAE is giving some a 3rd dose as that vaccine is not giving enough of an immune response:
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/covid- ... wxK3qNVPdE

I think all of us need a booster this fall, so this will be more common. However, I have concerns as so many in the UAE are not vaccinated.

Lightsaber

This is specifically talking about Sinopharm vaccine.
https://ojo-publico.com/2549/version-de ... 9-es-falsa
https://larepublica.pe/verificador/2021 ... s-en-peru/
The vaccine reportedly only have 11.5% efficiency rate according to phase 3 trial preliminary data in Peru.
So it make some sense for them to try to see if additional shot would result in better result or not.
(The original report contain information being debunked, as it's claimed that the vaccine trial data is from vaccine produced by Wuhan subsidiary instead of Beijing subsidiary of Sinopharm, aka a different one from the one Peruvian government have ordered, but to us non-Peruvian it mean there are indeed one of their vaccine being produced that come with such data. It also claimed the measurement was taken by measuring PCR positivity which isn't the "correct" way to measure vaccine effectiveness and should instead measure symptomatic patient rate)

OMG, I knew it didn't pass in Brazil. Sinopharm should be Sinopharm, if there is that much variation factory to factory, something is really wrong.

This is a bummer as it is one of the more mass produced vaccines.

Lightsaber
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:14 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I am of the opinion a bad 4th wave is coming. It is months away from the USA or EU, but when I look at the cases out there, it is obviously coming. In my opinion, anyone not getting vaccinated who can (I know, in short supply today) is going to accelerate the spread of this virus.

At the current rate, it will take 6 months in the USA to vaccinate enough to slow this disease:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1eq7NK

Furthermore, when it comes to vaccine distribution, at-risk populations have been prioritized, which means that fewer people who get infected end up in the hospital. The New York Times reports that while new coronavirus cases have dropped by 12% over the last 14 days, hospitalizations have in turn gone down by 32%.

Quite a few people who don't understand risk are casting shade on Vaccines:
Foreign news outlets and anti-vaccine activists have also aggressively tried to cast doubt on the safety and efficacy of vaccines made in the United States and Europe.

That is a shame as vaccines dramatically reduce deaths and the spread of Covid19.

Locally, the vaccine is making those with it bold as are the young. Every day here in SoCal the number who won't wear a mask goes up, but, last I looked, over 65 were still scrambling for shots. So please restrain for a bit longer.

I posted a link before that 18.5 million shots for next week... Sigh, so close but so far.

It looks like a global uptick has started (I always look at the 7 day average):
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

While the uptick in India is clearly the seed of a 4th wave, Brazil is scary, very scary:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ry/brazil/

Thankfully, I've yet to see a report if any Vaccine not effective against the Brazil "P1" variants.

Sinovac good:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.c ... 30605.html

Pfizer good, but only lab tests:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.washingt ... Type%3damp

Johnson and Johnson proved itself early in Brazil:
https://theweek.com/speedreads/968696/m ... ica-brazil


Newer data even more encouraging (my opinion is J&J takes more time to build great immunity):
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/02/24/ ... -reported/

AZ preliminary study says it works:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/oxford- ... -says.html


Moderna is good:
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.c ... 14470.html

I was unable to find a link on Sputnik V vs. the P1 varriant. Have they tested it?

Vaccines will stop people from getting crippled by the virus. As that is my #1 concern, I will get myself and my kids vaccinated ASAP. Thankfully my parents, elderly neighbors and relatives all have dose #1.

The 4th wave has started. I wonder if the USA can vaccinate fast enough to suppress it? In my opinion, the current rate of vaccinations is too slow to even notably slow the spread.

People are not mentally capable of locking down anymore. Financially we cannot either. I see so many closed small businesses.

So the only hope is faster vaccination.

Lightsaber
Late addition:
Ps why haven't we approved AZ in the USA. I agree with this link, there are one of two mistakes being made, either everyone else should stop administering AZ or the USA should.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... NewsSearch

AstraZeneca executive vice president Ruud Dobber recently told CBS News that they plan to seek approval from the FDA within the next several weeks.

Ugh, I posted before there are 60 million doses sitting in US freezers. Vaccinating another 60 million fast could have enough people vaccinated before the 4th wave hits.


Have you found anything about COVID-19 vaccine trials for children? Sure they are the least affected demographic for now, but it's very difficult for families to travel together if adults are vaccinated but not the children. My wife wants to take our one year old son overseas to meet friends and family, but the prospect of have to quarantine both directions is not appealing.

The three US emergency certifiedVaccines are in pediatric trials:
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/coro ... ?_amp=true

Oxford-AstraZeneca started trials about a month earlier (note, doing the math in my head as to timeframe):
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/oxfo ... e-n1257816

As trials take 4 months and approval seems to take a month, that implies the summer travel season is in danger. The UK might approve earlier.

Lightsaber
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CaptainHaresh
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:31 pm

Over 7,000 SARS-CoV-2 mutations documented in India.

https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-o ... 2021-02-25


COVID-19 will be gone by the summer.
Which year though?
 
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:07 pm

lightsaber wrote:
It looks like the UK will increase their jab rate soon, but some of the press extrapolated to dates not achievable.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/vac ... 12582.html


From the link:

'(Reuters) - People over 40 in the UK will be offered their first coronavirus vaccination by Easter on April 4 as a boost in supplies will allow rapid expansion of the inoculation programme, the Telegraph reported on Friday, citing a senior government source.

Vaccine stocks are expected to more than double, allowing the National Health Service (NHS) to offer a million doses a day in coming weeks, the newspaper said.'

I log daily 1st and 2nd doses for England (population about 85% of entire UK population). I would be very pleasantly surprised if we could up the number of jabs per week to more than double the record level of 2.635 million jabs administered in England in the 7 days to Feb 5.. I doubt we have the human resources to raise that to 7 million jabs a week even if 7 million doses a week were distributed to our vaccination centres.

Additionally, I have not heard of an additional 30 million doses being imminently available. The figure I heard was 19 million from #BaconButty earlier in this thread.

But yes, we have given a large number of first doses and I believe that nationally we are working through the 50-59 age group at the moment, Some areas may be more advanced in covering target age groups than others. Incidentally I heard from a friend yesterday that in her area they had offered vaccination to her daughter who is in the 40-49 age group.

My source for vaccination data for England: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... cinations/
 
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c933103
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:24 pm

lightsaber wrote:
c933103 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
UAE is giving some a 3rd dose as that vaccine is not giving enough of an immune response:
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/covid- ... wxK3qNVPdE

I think all of us need a booster this fall, so this will be more common. However, I have concerns as so many in the UAE are not vaccinated.

Lightsaber

This is specifically talking about Sinopharm vaccine.
https://ojo-publico.com/2549/version-de ... 9-es-falsa
https://larepublica.pe/verificador/2021 ... s-en-peru/
The vaccine reportedly only have 11.5% efficiency rate according to phase 3 trial preliminary data in Peru.
So it make some sense for them to try to see if additional shot would result in better result or not.
(The original report contain information being debunked, as it's claimed that the vaccine trial data is from vaccine produced by Wuhan subsidiary instead of Beijing subsidiary of Sinopharm, aka a different one from the one Peruvian government have ordered, but to us non-Peruvian it mean there are indeed one of their vaccine being produced that come with such data. It also claimed the measurement was taken by measuring PCR positivity which isn't the "correct" way to measure vaccine effectiveness and should instead measure symptomatic patient rate)

OMG, I knew it didn't pass in Brazil. Sinopharm should be Sinopharm, if there is that much variation factory to factory, something is really wrong.

This is a bummer as it is one of the more mass produced vaccines.

Lightsaber

It is not variation between factories, instead it is two different vaccines being researched in parallel by two different branches under the Sinopharm.
Also, IIRC the Chinese vaccine being tested in Brazil was Sinovac not Sinopharm, which is yet another company with their own separately researched vaccine
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 10:52 pm

c933103 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
c933103 wrote:
This is specifically talking about Sinopharm vaccine.
https://ojo-publico.com/2549/version-de ... 9-es-falsa
https://larepublica.pe/verificador/2021 ... s-en-peru/
The vaccine reportedly only have 11.5% efficiency rate according to phase 3 trial preliminary data in Peru.
So it make some sense for them to try to see if additional shot would result in better result or not.
(The original report contain information being debunked, as it's claimed that the vaccine trial data is from vaccine produced by Wuhan subsidiary instead of Beijing subsidiary of Sinopharm, aka a different one from the one Peruvian government have ordered, but to us non-Peruvian it mean there are indeed one of their vaccine being produced that come with such data. It also claimed the measurement was taken by measuring PCR positivity which isn't the "correct" way to measure vaccine effectiveness and should instead measure symptomatic patient rate)

OMG, I knew it didn't pass in Brazil. Sinopharm should be Sinopharm, if there is that much variation factory to factory, something is really wrong.

This is a bummer as it is one of the more mass produced vaccines.

Lightsaber

It is not variation between factories, instead it is two different vaccines being researched in parallel by two different branches under the Sinopharm.
Also, IIRC the Chinese vaccine being tested in Brazil was Sinovac not Sinopharm, which is yet another company with their own separately researched vaccine

If someone as obsessed about vaccines as myself cannot keep them straight, I'll simply avoid the Sino Vaccines as to allow distribution of a vaccine that doesn't work is at best fraud.
As much as I want vaccines to be out there faster, there needs to be the emergency testing to prove safety and efficacy. I personally think Pfizer, Moderna, and AstraZenecaare certainly safe and effective enough to distribute.

I believe Sputnik V is now getting the scrutiny required and is looking to be a really good vaccine. I also believe NovaVax has basically proven itself and now is the time to do submit the paperwork for review. For as annoying as that review delay is, I believe it serves a safety function.

We all know these vaccines are out on emergency authorizations. The full review takes 3 or 4 years that we just do not have. But there needs to be some review before the precious and growing scarce ingredients are consumed making vaccines that do not pass the 50% efficacy criteria.

If a country is calling a vaccine good and it is found to be ineffective in reality, than that makes their whole certification process void.

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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:31 pm

lightsaber wrote:
c933103 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
OMG, I knew it didn't pass in Brazil. Sinopharm should be Sinopharm, if there is that much variation factory to factory, something is really wrong.

This is a bummer as it is one of the more mass produced vaccines.

Lightsaber

It is not variation between factories, instead it is two different vaccines being researched in parallel by two different branches under the Sinopharm.
Also, IIRC the Chinese vaccine being tested in Brazil was Sinovac not Sinopharm, which is yet another company with their own separately researched vaccine

If someone as obsessed about vaccines as myself cannot keep them straight, I'll simply avoid the Sino Vaccines as to allow distribution of a vaccine that doesn't work is at best fraud.
As much as I want vaccines to be out there faster, there needs to be the emergency testing to prove safety and efficacy. I personally think Pfizer, Moderna, and AstraZenecaare certainly safe and effective enough to distribute.

I believe Sputnik V is now getting the scrutiny required and is looking to be a really good vaccine. I also believe NovaVax has basically proven itself and now is the time to do submit the paperwork for review. For as annoying as that review delay is, I believe it serves a safety function.

We all know these vaccines are out on emergency authorizations. The full review takes 3 or 4 years that we just do not have. But there needs to be some review before the precious and growing scarce ingredients are consumed making vaccines that do not pass the 50% efficacy criteria.

If a country is calling a vaccine good and it is found to be ineffective in reality, than that makes their whole certification process void.

Lightsaber

The SinoVac one, according to data submitted to Hong Kong government, claim an efficiency rate to prevent infection of 50.6%, with not enough data for elderly.
The SinoPharm (Wuhan) one, have an efficiency rate of 11.5% according to preliminary data linked above.
The SinoPharm (Beijing) one, have an efficiency rate of 33% according to the same preliminary data linked above.


Previously, the SinoPharm (Beijing) one have claimed a protection rate of 79.34%, it didn't define what is the meaning of "protection" when they made such claim, but my understanding is it mean the ability to prevent symptomatic infection, without considering asymptomatic cases.

For the SinoVac one, they claim increasing the break between first and second dose to 28 days can increase the efficiency rate to 62.3% https://hongkongfp.com/2021/02/17/covid ... published/

There are also various other figures from each individual countries they have conducted tests in.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:11 am

lightsaber wrote:
We all know these vaccines are out on emergency authorizations. The full review takes 3 or 4 years that we just do not have. But there needs to be some review before the precious and growing scarce ingredients are consumed making vaccines that do not pass the 50% efficacy criteria.

If a country is calling a vaccine good and it is found to be ineffective in reality, than that makes their whole certification process void.

Lightsaber


It doesn't take 3 -4 years to review data. Usually it takes time to collect data. You have to get a statistically significant number of infections to determine if the vaccine is more effective than the placebo. Thanks to the large size of the studies, 30K plus in the Moderna study alone, and and a surge in COVID cases, enough people in the study got COVID-19 to quickly show the vaccinted group was getting sick at a rate about 20 times lower than the control group. Furthermore they tended to have light cases even when they did have symptoms. The large number number getting the vaccine helped demonstrate safety.

I'm in the Moderna vaccine trial. I was called before the end of December to say the study was beginning to be unblinded in preparation for submission of an application for full approval of the Moderna vaccine. I had originally set up an appointment for the the first week of March for the 6 month post second injection visit and the third week of March for the unblinding. I got a call on the last Friday of February, and the company running the study told me that Moderna wanted everyone unblinded by the end of the first week of March, so I switched appointments. I got unblinded on the first week of March, and got my vaccination card documenting that I did get the second vaccination in early September. My wife and I suspected that was the case based on the side effects. I go in on Monday to do the 6 month visit where they will have me give them 8 30 mL vials of blood. At the unblinding they only took 2 vials. For some reason they had to be separate visits. Anyway, Moderna wouldn't be unblinding people in the study of they weren't getting ready to get full certification of their vaccine. I suspect the Pfizer vaccine is also close to being fully licensed too.
 
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:16 am

lightsaber wrote:

WIederling wrote:
art wrote:
No clotting problems in Spain reported from the suspect AZ vaccine batch.


Wine, garlic and virgin olive oil :-)

LoL

Seriously, the vaccine *might* (I am skeptical) slightly increase the chance of clotting.


First reported case. A healthy 26 y.o. pharmacist without any previous condition.

https://www.salamanca24horas.com/texto- ... ombo-brazo
 
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:53 am

https://www.am730.com.hk/news/share/259472
Following a number of cardiovascular problem induced death after vaccination, Hong Kong government expert commented that it would help for the government to list out criteria that would make a person not suitable to take vaccine.
Until now, the government have asked vaccine receivers and frontline medical staffs to determine the risk by themselves
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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WIederling
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:14 pm

lightsaber wrote:
WIederling wrote:
art wrote:
No clotting problems in Spain reported from the suspect AZ vaccine batch.

Wine, garlic and virgin olive oil :-)

LoL


circulatory diseases stuff is for northern Europe.
The Mediterranean diet seems to have alleviating/curative properties in that context.
( That food stuff is comparatively more expensive down south could be another lever.
OT: what gave me a bit of a shock when visiting Ireland a couple of years ago was the
high number of absolutely wobbly overweight young girls ( 14..20 ) )
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:01 pm

WIederling wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Wine, garlic and virgin olive oil :-)

LoL


circulatory diseases stuff is for northern Europe.
The Mediterranean diet seems to have alleviating/curative properties in that context.
( That food stuff is comparatively more expensive down south could be another lever.
OT: what gave me a bit of a shock when visiting Ireland a couple of years ago was the
high number of absolutely wobbly overweight young girls ( 14..20 ) )

Diet plays a role. So does exercise. So does obesity (or as you put it, wobbly).

However, those same people are subject to clots. With millions having received the vaccine, it the vaccine itself increases risk, it is a very small risk. It would be building off a predisposition for clotting.

I suspect the incredibly poor exercise habits of the last year have increased the risk of clotting tremendously.

This link has a lot of data (almost too much for one sheet), search for "COVID-19 vaccine doses administered by manufacturer" and change country to Germany. It actually looks like the AZ uptake only slowed a little. That is great news!

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Of course, if you change the country to the United States, you see our uptake of the J&J is rather limited. As a one and done, it should just be used up to slow the spread.

Lightsaber
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JJJ
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:20 pm

WIederling wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Wine, garlic and virgin olive oil :-)

LoL


circulatory diseases stuff is for northern Europe.
The Mediterranean diet seems to have alleviating/curative properties in that context.
)


Remember that two of the deceased after receiving the vaccine were in Sicily. Their diet is as Mediterranean as it gets.

Of course at this point we don't know about obesity, pre existing conditions and so on but being a police officer and a active military office it's presumed they were at least reasonably fit for their age.
 
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:21 pm

India is going to have six vaccines available soon:
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/muc ... 03777.html

India now seems to be administering just under a million doses per day. In a country of its population, not great (that is over 6 years of vaccines administration if we assume 2 doses).

I am personally very enthusiastic about each nation getting to herd immunity, but the reality is we need to limit variations and that requires getting the global population to herd immunity. I'm a bit frustrated that vaccine deliveries are always a fraction of promises. Hopefully that turns, but for example the USA promises require J&J to step up production and they won't even deliver a meaningful amount next week. :cry2:

I don't blame the vaccine makers. Mass production is hard and mass production in a biological & chemical industry that needs what were rare ingredients until this year is going to be a super challenge.

Because of the huge population that will remain exposed, we will need annual boosters if not bi-annual booster shots; I just don't think it is feasible to develop boosters faster, in my opinion. That means an absolutely massive production capacity for the raw materials, vials, syringes, as well as the vaccines. Since people are pretty much done with lockdown (any pretense in California is fadding, rapidly. My open up and party six weeks after vaccines are available was far too optimistic on human behavior).

One shot effectiveness seems to be pretty good (after a long time in the body, vaccines don't turn on day 1, it takes weeks):
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/muc ... 03777.html

Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are likely 80% effective against symptomatic COVID-19 after one dose.

A single AstraZeneca shot is probably at least 70% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19.

So the UK's get everyone a shot first strategy certainly is looking to have high merit. Don't get me wrong, get a 2nd into medical professionals and the over age 65 quickly, but for most, one jab in many is better than 2 jabs in half the number.

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:49 pm

On AZ
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ationalism

The number of incidents reported -- about 30 from a group of around five million -- is no greater than what would have occurred naturally in that size of population, according to regulators and scientists.

“Genuine problems with a batch are very rare and almost always relate to contamination by bacteria or physical” particles like glass detected by the manufacturer, said Stephen Evans, a professor at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine. “Pausing the use in this case is not evidence-based.”


Sadly, it looks like AZ is being politicized to cover EU gawfs. Get the Netherlands plant certified and the added 10 million doses out early. If the UK has shown anything, smart expedited emergency procedures pay off quickly. Vaccines only work weeks after in arms and really only matter if out there in a huge fraction of the population.

There is a reason I really doubt the vaccine is having any effect on clots as the rate, for what has been an un-athletic population, isn't sticking out. When I had Covid19 my doctors (I consulted three) were all insistent I walk 7000+ steps every day as those that moved less when sick had bad outcomes. I was on a program to walk over 12000 steps per day before I came down with Covid and my doctors are quite certain that helped with my mild case (as well as social distancing, face masks, good diet, over 20 minutes of sunlight per day, and enough socialization to keep up my spirits, this isn't a one aspect solution).

Since the rate of clots doesn't stick out, let us get back to jabbing. I would take an AZ jab today if I could. Either 5 million were jabbed in error or AZ is safe. Considering how much AZ is reducing transmission (we've been trading links all thread, in my opinion the case is so clear it is past debate), getting more in arms is the solution. In particular considering how many are still dying of Covid19 everywhere. Yes, my decision on AZ is based on the fact I had (but I cannot prove I had) Covid19 and I posted a link upthread that those who had it and receive 2 doses have 10X+ the anti-bodies. So AZ would be 'good enough'. I also posted upthread a link on how 37.5% of Los Angeles county is estimated to have already have had Covid19, so any boost to immunity is a great thing. What scares me is being crippled; I personally know 4 people crippled by coronavirus, I do not know one person who had any issue with a vaccine worth complaining about.

Oh, people will complain, but at this point I just say "I cannot taste that meat, cheese, or any carbohydrate, would you really not want to enjoy (I point to their lunch) that at all?" A friend was sitting 10 feet away having a plate of loaded nachos (received the last one before the place ran out of one ingredient, so stopped offering them for sale) and was taunting the rest of us. When that friend tried to taunt me, I stated "no appeal, has no flavor. I might not be able to taste it for 9 months per my doctors. When are you getting vaccinated?" (It was a vac-hesitant friend who later had Covid19 and has the loss of taste far worse than myself.... Ironic...)

AZ already has a booster in work. That is very encouraging. Does 3 (the booster) should really protect everyone. Having the first 2 will certainly keep people away from the doctors, (ok, 30 of 5 million...normal probability for clots) :yawn:

"Better is the enemy of good enough."

Lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:04 pm

Just a link on 4th wave term usage.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1453993&p=22692265#p22692265

If anything, a good thing to live where people only consider it the 3rd wave.
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:33 am

https://www.thestandnews.com/society/武漢肺炎-30-歲或以上明天起可打針-陳肇始威脅接種率低-或收緊防疫/
https://hk.appledaily.com/local/20210315/BFAQRPB37JENTFOQ2S3LNNUINY/
As number of death in Hong Kong after receiving vaccine reached 6 after 19,800 taken the vaccine, the vaccination attendance rate further declined, the Hong Kong government announced they will relax the vaccine priority group to cover anyone who age above 30. Combined with other groups, it covered over 80% of Hong Kong population age above 16, which is about 5 million.
They said, Hong Kong have received two million dose of vaccines from Biontech and SinoVac respectively in the last month, and additional shots will be delivered each months, hence in combined with the current speculative atmosphere in the city there wouldn't be a shortage in vaccine supply. They emphasis that vaccine have storage time limit and urge citizens make use of the vaccines as much as possible.
In connection, the Hong Kong government have threatened that, if the vaccination rate is less than anticipated, they might enhance social distancing measures and close down facilities that are recently reopened, but if the vaccination rate is good then they will consider relaxing social distancing rules. The government have also commented that low vaccination rate might affect others rating on Hong Kong and thus impact international travel quarantine relaxation in the future.
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marcelh
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:53 am

lightsaber wrote:
Sadly, it looks like AZ is being politicized to cover EU gawfs. Get the Netherlands plant certified and the added 10 million doses out early.


The only reason this plant isn’t certified yet by the EMA it’s because it is part of the “UK production chain.” It was never intended to produce for the EU.
 
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:20 pm

Other Vaccine production is being suspended for J&J vaccine production: https://www.politico.eu/article/johnson ... ction/amp/

I think that is the right call, if a short term shift? I a pessimistic on producing enough vaccine, so I wonder how long it will be extended...

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:21 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
marcelh wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Sadly, it looks like AZ is being politicized to cover EU gawfs. Get the Netherlands plant certified and the added 10 million doses out early.


The only reason this plant isn’t certified yet by the EMA it’s because it is part of the “UK production chain.” It was never intended to produce for the EU.

If available, certify it or accept UK certification. AZ is offering the EU 10 million doses, as we Americans say "don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Lightsaber
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marcelh
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:35 pm

lightsaber wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
marcelh wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Sadly, it looks like AZ is being politicized to cover EU gawfs. Get the Netherlands plant certified and the added 10 million doses out early.


The only reason this plant isn’t certified yet by the EMA it’s because it is part of the “UK production chain.” It was never intended to produce for the EU.

If available, certify it or accept UK certification. AZ is offering the EU 10 million doses, as we Americans say "don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Lightsaber

IIRC, certification is in progress, so those 10 million doses will come.
 
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:26 pm

If first you don't succeed, outsource. J&J has outsourced to... everyone! Besides Johnson & Johnson turning on 3 owned factories, they have signed up: Merck (US x2, one in Europe, I think France? In EU...), Sanofi (France), SII (India), IDT (Germany, suspending other vaccine production), Catalent (US), Emergent (US & Europe factories) and Takeda (Japan).

So the current lull should be broken through.

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/takeda-i ... 48055.html

https://www.politico.eu/article/johnson ... ction/amp/

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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:05 am

Anyone take a recent look at the CDC website VAERS data, saw a WhatsApp video showing the web site listing deaths after taking various vaccines, I selected Florida and I must admit to being shocked at the results. Not sure if to post the link but the site is open, select your data requirements and the results are there.
 
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:08 am

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/c ... ne/2177149
Chinese government: Those who got non-Chinese vaccines need to be tested negative and write a health declaration form in order to enter China. But those who take Chinese vaccines will be exempted from such provedure.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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Chaostheory
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Re: Updated: A COVID-19 vaccine candidate works!

Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:24 am

art wrote:
With regard to the current focus on the AZ vaccine where blood clotting is concerned, I hope that the big increase in the rate of vaccination planned to start in UK from March 15 will not be delayed. Less than 9 million doses were administered in England Feb 12 - Mar 11. I understand that 19 million doses are expected to be delivered to UK in March - almost double what was administered in UK in the last 28 days. I would be very disappointed if a large proportion were AZ vaccine, distribution were delayed and the vaccination rates were very adversely affected.

In England we vaccinated over 0.9% of the population in one day at the end of January. With many more vaccination centres now and 19 million doses reportedly becoming available to the UK in March, we should be able to raise the level of those having received a first dose from 35% today to close to 60% in the next 28 days - barring an AZ availability delay.

I'm still waiting to be jabbed but if the data say there is no increase in the risk of clotting from the AZ vaccine, I will have no hesitation in accepting it. I just don't want the UK authorities to slow things down by re-checking data already checked by the EMA.


I can't see things slowing down.

Younger brother is a med student working pretty much full time as a vaccinator out of Twickenham rugby stadium. His bosses want to offer even more jab slots earlier and are offering £40/hour to cover them.
 
Tiredofhumanity
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:18 am

par13del wrote:
Anyone take a recent look at the CDC website VAERS data, saw a WhatsApp video showing the web site listing deaths after taking various vaccines, I selected Florida and I must admit to being shocked at the results. Not sure if to post the link but the site is open, select your data requirements and the results are there.


Questions:

1) When you say "various", are you talking about covid vaccines or others?
2) Ages and/or complications?
3) How do the rates of each similar cause of death compare to the general population?

Let's not jump the gun like the EU is doing with the AZ vaccine. Italy is going back into lockdown and Paris hospitalizations are going back up yet again.

Plus - who was the real author of the Whatsapp video?

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