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art
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Thu May 27, 2021 7:55 pm

It looks like the Indian variant has become the dominant variant in the UK. I heard/read on a BBC news programme that up to three quarters of infections are now of this variant.

The number of reported COVID-19 infections is starting to rise as well but some of this will be due to the easing of many travel/mixing restrictions 10 days ago.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Thu May 27, 2021 11:45 pm

https://www.kantei.go.jp/jp/headline/ka ... upply.html
Just found that Japanese government claim on the government site they have already distributed 2 dose for 4.8 million medical staffs to local governments around Japan, and they will distribute 2 doses for all 36 million elderly in Japan by end of June, hoping for end of vaccination for all elderly by the end of July. In other words that would be 81 Million dose in total. But the current vaccination campaign pace make it hard for people to see how the schedule can be matched.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/b2501 ... 41c9b9a10b
Japan central government expect local governments to start vaccinating non-elder general public since July

https://www.sankeibiz.jp/econome/news/2 ... 007-n1.htm
Amid Olympics, EU will be granting export approval to over 100 Million dose of vaccine to Japan

https://mainichi.jp/articles/20210528/k ... 10/002000c
As Japan approved the AstraZeneca vaccine but still haven't determined how to use them and with ramp up of AstraZeneca vaccine production capacity in Japan, Japanese government is thinking about how to use their 120 Million ordered AstraZeneca vaccine dose including 90 Million domestic production. As part of the evaluation, the Japanese government is evaluating supplying some of these vaccines to Taiwan, scheduled to deliver on the next month at the earliest. But, as Japanese government contract with AstraZeneca on the vaccine supply place the responsibility of compensation if side effect occurred on the shoulder of Japanese government, further discussion on such liability will be needed if those vaccines are to be supplied to Taiwan. In addition, Japanese government have also considered supplying vaccine to Pacific Island Countries through WHO West Pacific Regional Office, as well as to COVAX.

https://www.zakzak.co.jp/soc/news/21052 ... 04-n1.html
Japan: As a result of slow vaccination progress in Japan, there are now companies which trade vaccines unapproved by the national government, like SinoVac vaccine smuggled from China, for anyone willing to pay to inject them into their body. A company being visited price them at around 300USD. The company claim they are imported by partner of individual doctor and the company no nothing about how they're being imported. Japanese law currently does not prohibit such behavior but require the doctor to bear the responsibility.

https://www.cna.com.tw/news/firstnews/202105270240.aspx
Taiwan: In the discussion process with BioNTech, Taiwanese government official share that, their contracts with BioNTech was ready to sign and announcement was ready to make on January 8, but BioNTech found the wording of "Our country" in the press release, referring to Taiwan, is problematic, so they changed the wording into "Taiwan" according to BioNTech's request, but after making such adjustment they in turn cited quantity and schedule problem and still haven't inked the contract till now.

https://www.storm.mg/article/3697265
China: As Fuxing, the Chinese company which have obtained exclusive license deal for Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in China (including Taiwan, HK, Macau) saw weak demand for their vaccine, due to the vaccine still haven't obtained approval in mainland China, citing side effect, and the very low level of vaccination desire in Hong Kong and Macau due to a number of factors including low level of infection case count and low level of trust, many of their Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine stocks are going to expire, and thus they want to sell them to Taiwan. According to report, Foxconn/Hon Hai, a Taiwanese electronic maker with many investment and factories in Mainland China, have been exploring the option of buying this batch of vaccines, in the quantity of millions, not just for their own use but also for donating some of them to Taiwanese government. Taiwan government haven't receive authorization application from relevant companies yet

https://www.storm.mg/new7/article/3706069
Taiwanese government is concerned that, given Fuxing's batch of vaccines mentioned in the previous news are expiring, and as Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines still haven't applied for emergency use in Taiwan, in addition to Taiwan have not established supply chain to store and distribute Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines at 60°C due to the inability to reach agreement, it is doubtful whether all the necessary preparation works can be done before those vaccines actually expire. There are additional concern that whether those vaccines stored by Fuxing are actually Pfizer/BioNTech's vaccine, or are they vaccines produced by Fuxing themselves. As a result it is understood that Foxconn/Hon Hai is now trying to work with both Fuxing and BioNTech to see if they can sign a three-party vaccine supply deal for BioNTech to supply vaccines to Taiwan directly.

https://tw.appledaily.com/politics/2021 ... 6DJI4JQAQ/
Taiwan: On the plan of US distributing excess vaccines to rest of the world, US's official representative in Taiwan chairing the American Institute in Taiwan said that, US is still drafting vaccine distribution standard, but mention that the number of confirmed case in Taiwan is still relatively low compares to rest of the world. It have resulted in some unfavorable comments posted against the US on the institute's page.

https://newtalk.tw/news/view/2021-05-27/580287
https://udn.com/news/story/120940/5485778
Two domestic vaccine manufacturer in Taiwan are expected to finish phase 2 trial and apply for Emergency Use Authorization as well as start mass production in June, with delivery and mass vaccination anticipated to start in July. Taiwanese government have said that, vaccine passed through phase 2 trial with over 3000 samples and 1 month of monitor confirming safety and effectiveness can obtain EUA

https://www.storm.mg/article/3694109
A member of ruling party of Taiwan response to comment on whether Taiwan is too "complacent" on fighting against the coronavirus, said it would be strange for Taiwan to join the fight for vaccine in previous times when Taiwan have no case but the whole world were in chaos, but also commented they have sent their requests and have also been working on domestic vaccines, and amid the current wave of infection they have also used many channels including trying to contact US for help.

https://www.sankeibiz.jp/macro/news/210 ... 007-n1.htm
North Korea: As COVAX vaccination scheme require sending in staff to countries to monitor the vaccination program being carried out appropriately, whereas North Korea have banned non-national from entering, it have created problem against the delivery of COVAX vaccines to North Korea

https://theprint.in/health/vaccine-alli ... es/666414/
India expected to resume delivery to COVAX from the third quarter, although it'd be at reduced quantity.
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phatfarmlines
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Fri May 28, 2021 11:18 am

Heart problems reported in Connecticut in teens and young adults after taking vaccine.

News segment makes no mention of which vaccine it is.

Lack of transparency is going to make it harder for people to trust the vaccine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiWCZDEjjKw

Source: NBC New York
 
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par13del
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Fri May 28, 2021 11:58 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
Heart problems reported in Connecticut in teens and young adults after taking vaccine.

News segment makes no mention of which vaccine it is.

Lack of transparency is going to make it harder for people to trust the vaccine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiWCZDEjjKw

Source: NBC New York

Based on past history we can speculate that it is not AZ, must be something else..., no one on either side of the pond has forgotten their delivery debacle.
 
art
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Fri May 28, 2021 5:10 pm

J&J approved for use in UK. Source: LBC radio in England.

After a prolonged period of falling infection rates in England, they are rising again.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Fri May 28, 2021 8:15 pm

https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4641445774100470
China: In China, some claimed, after receiving SinoVac vaccines, they have lost the ability of hearing or suffer from tinnitus
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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ThePointblank
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Fri May 28, 2021 10:44 pm

German researchers are claiming that they have figured out why adrenovirus vaccines seem to occasionally cause rare blood clots, and a potential solution to the problem:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19 ... -1.6043185

The German researchers suggest the problem lies within the delivery system of these two similar vaccines, both of which use adenovirus vector technology to send genetic instructions into cells to produce the spike protein of the coronavirus.

The findings, which were published online on Wednesday and have not yet been peer reviewed, note this type of vaccine sends the DNA gene sequence of the spike protein directly into the nucleus of the cell, at which point certain parts of the spike protein DNA may become spliced, or broken apart.

The study, based on the team's own lab work involving experiments with the commonly-used HeLa human cell line, suggests these "undesirable" breakdowns can cause mutations to occur within the spike protein DNA, which could make it tougher for those proteins to bond to the cell, allowing them to secrete into the body and potentially trigger "inflammatory reactions" that can result in the rare blood clots.

The researchers suspect three steps are at play: The rogue spike proteins flowing through the bloodstream, combined with the newly built antibodies designed to attack them, plus the highly specific blood flow conditions in veins that drain from the brain, "may result in the rare but severe events after vaccination," the team wrote.


Verification and more research is going to be needed, but it seems like if they can figure out where the issues with DNA splicing occurs, they can reformulate the existing vaccines to account for it.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 29, 2021 1:15 pm

par13del wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
Heart problems reported in Connecticut in teens and young adults after taking vaccine.

News segment makes no mention of which vaccine it is.

Lack of transparency is going to make it harder for people to trust the vaccine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiWCZDEjjKw

Source: NBC New York

Based on past history we can speculate that it is not AZ, must be something else..., no one on either side of the pond has forgotten their delivery debacle.

There might be issues, but lack of transparency and scrutiny is not one of them.

I posted upthread 5% of people had the heart inflammation with the virus (not due to the vaccine).

It should be looked at. Lightsaber
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Aesma
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sat May 29, 2021 1:33 pm

The Pfizer/China/Taiwan story is really ridiculous and infuriating...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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par13del
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 30, 2021 1:49 pm

Aesma wrote:
The Pfizer/China/Taiwan story is really ridiculous and infuriating...

Not sure you can confine that situation to just a vaccine thread, unless you really believe that China would not use all means necessary to bring the "breakaway colony" back into the fold.
Will be interesting to see how many other nations step up to help where providing arms and bodies to fight a war is not required, honestly, I don't this it makes a difference, no one wants to offend China and if they say providing vaccines is a no no then expect the world to fall in line and even promote / encourage them to take China's assistance with whatever strings attached.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 30, 2021 1:57 pm

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/urug ... deaths/amp
A study at Urugay claim SinoVac is able to prevent 97% death and is better than Pfizer which they claim only able to prevent 80% death
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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marcelh
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sun May 30, 2021 3:47 pm

c933103 wrote:
https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/uruguay-study-of-862000-sinovac-prevents-97-deaths/amp
A study at Urugay claim SinoVac is able to prevent 97% death and is better than Pfizer which they claim only able to prevent 80% death


It would be appropriate to add some context:
“The health ministry of Uruguay reminds people that their Sinovac results are preliminary and are also somewhat of an apples-to-oranges comparison since the majority of Pfizer recipients were at-risk or elderly people.”
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon May 31, 2021 1:04 am

marcelh wrote:
c933103 wrote:
https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/uruguay-study-of-862000-sinovac-prevents-97-deaths/amp
A study at Urugay claim SinoVac is able to prevent 97% death and is better than Pfizer which they claim only able to prevent 80% death


It would be appropriate to add some context:
“The health ministry of Uruguay reminds people that their Sinovac results are preliminary and are also somewhat of an apples-to-oranges comparison since the majority of Pfizer recipients were at-risk or elderly people.”

I would like to see the data.

Ages, when they died since vaccination.

I suspect Pfizer will continue to be as good as prior and SinoVac... we'll see. I can find the journal papers on most western vaccines, not the Chinese.
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon May 31, 2021 3:37 pm

https://hk.appledaily.com/local/2021053 ... VBUCLN64Q/
Hong Kong: In order to promote vaccination, the government decided to adopt the following policies:
- Cooperate with business and other sectors to launch scheme rewarding those who have accepted the vaccine
- Allow vaccinated restaurants and bars to have looser restriction in capacity and opening hour
- 1-day leave per shot for vaccinated government employees, including additional holiday for those who vaccinated before the policy was announced
- Penalty for those who have not received vaccines, including longer quarantine period, more frequent virus testing, and restriction against entering some specific venues, including e.g. restaurants, schools, dormitory, library, cinema, performance venue, museum, sports arena, etc, in case there is a fifth wave of outbreak in the city, unless immune barrier can be established with 70/80/90% population being vaccinated

Currently 21% of Hong Kong population have received at least one dose of vaccine.

She also claim that vaccine will be a mandatory requirement for anyone in Hong Kong going to travel to Mainland China or Foreign Countries.

She also mentioned that, given Hong Kong have a large number of expiring vaccine stocks, some countries have contacted Hong Kong government trying to seek for resold/donation/lease of vaccines, but due to agreement with manufacturers with restriction on usage of vaccines and government desire to increase vaccination rate, hence the Hong Kong government didn't response these requests directly. She claim if necessary then the vaccines could be donated via COVAX

The government say they will also upgrade the government contact tracing apps, hence vaccinated individual can use the contact tracing app as prove of vaccination to gain access to specific venues.
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon May 31, 2021 5:34 pm

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/pickup/6394850
Member of Japanese Olympic team wouldn't be able to get vaccine in Japan if their certificate of residence isn't in Japan
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon May 31, 2021 9:13 pm

Interesting tidbit about the unvaccinated Covid Rates in the US. Should be interesting to see how all this plays out after a rather wild and crowded holiday weekend.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-19-cas ... 22310.html

In an analysis, the Post found that if vaccinated people are removed from assessing the data, the case rate for unvaccinated Americans is similar to the case rate for all residents on December 31.

In the past week, the US has averaged a little over 20,000 cases per day, the CDC reported.

The Post found that the rate among those unvaccinated is 73% higher than figures being publicized. Their analysis found that in states with high unvaccinated populations, the pandemic is ongoing at the same pace it was during the last surge.

Taking into account the adjustments for vaccinated people, cases are still going down but the national death rate would actually be the same as it was two months ago, while hospitalizations are as high as they were three months ago.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-va ... ata-shows/



In regards to the earlier discussion, where are you getting this 80% death preventative for Pfizer?

it is over 95% effective at keeping people from even getting symptomatically sick..

It is 97% effective in preventing symptomatic illness and 91.5% in protecting against asymptomatic infection.

The researchers found that vaccines are 97.2% effective against COVID-19-related hospitalization. They stressed that vaccine benefits are felt across all ages, writing: “In all age groups, as vaccine coverage increased, the incidence of SARS-CoV-2 outcomes declined.”

Using the full name for Pfizer’s vaccine, they stated: “Two doses of BNT162b2 are highly effective across all age groups in preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections and COVID-19-related hospitalizations, severe disease and death, including those caused by the [British] variant.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon May 31, 2021 11:03 pm

This is anecdotal...

My relatives coronavirus ward was stood back up. In her Western US area (she would prefer I not say where) the predominant strain is now B1.1.617.x (Indian variants). The number one issue is motivating hospital staff as they fatigued and now the patients are all people who should have been vaccinated except for one. They call it empathy fatigue, but I found links calling it compassion fatigue.

https://www.apa.org/topics/covid-19/compassion-fatigue

Part of the problem is their workload is now, excluding that one patient, entirely people who could have had the first jab and are now requiring extensive and expensive care the staff knows was avoidable. e.g., one previously healthy patient is getting a medicine with horrid side effects, a medicine where100% of patients have some long term negative consequence, but without will die. (Not in question).

The doctors and nurses need a break. How does my sister motivate the staff when they are burned out and being asked to (locally) surge again when every patient could have avoided the hospital with one jab including the "11 to 19" year old who looked healthy, but died quick. They unfortunately have a collection of teenagers in their ward. (In fairness, 80% of the patients are, err... visibly with comobidities).
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... uxbndlbing

They even now have to test for and isolate B.1.1.617.x from all other coronavirus patients as cross contamination is a worry, both ways.

How do we mitigate the unfounded fear mongering on vaccines? My relative doesn't want the business! Her staff is ready to be disbanded and return to their "day jobs" (e.g., gall bladder treatment, nephrology, cardiac care, or "elective surgery.")

So in this vaccine hesitant society, how to promote more engagement of the medical staff? They're actively avoiding the new coronavirus teams vs. volunteering. My relative is having to assign staff back to the ward as why deal with dying patients who have no reason to die (not fun for medical staff)?

/rant

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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon May 31, 2021 11:17 pm

casinterest wrote:

In regards to the earlier discussion, where are you getting this 80% death preventative for Pfizer?

it is over 95% effective at keeping people from even getting symptomatically sick..

It is 97% effective in preventing symptomatic illness and 91.5% in protecting against asymptomatic infection.

The researchers found that vaccines are 97.2% effective against COVID-19-related hospitalization. They stressed that vaccine benefits are felt across all ages, writing: “In all age groups, as vaccine coverage increased, the incidence of SARS-CoV-2 outcomes declined.”

Using the full name for Pfizer’s vaccine, they stated: “Two doses of BNT162b2 are highly effective across all age groups in preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections and COVID-19-related hospitalizations, severe disease and death, including those caused by the [British] variant.

It's the Uruguaian government who made this claim
https://www.elpais.com.uy/informacion/s ... medad.html
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Derico
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:44 am

Is this it, no new vaccines in the pipeline? It appears for two or three months now it is the same old vaccines. I would have thought the more timed passed, the more laboratories would be publishing results of their trials. Quite disappointing.
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:30 am

c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

In regards to the earlier discussion, where are you getting this 80% death preventative for Pfizer?

it is over 95% effective at keeping people from even getting symptomatically sick..

It is 97% effective in preventing symptomatic illness and 91.5% in protecting against asymptomatic infection.

The researchers found that vaccines are 97.2% effective against COVID-19-related hospitalization. They stressed that vaccine benefits are felt across all ages, writing: “In all age groups, as vaccine coverage increased, the incidence of SARS-CoV-2 outcomes declined.”

Using the full name for Pfizer’s vaccine, they stated: “Two doses of BNT162b2 are highly effective across all age groups in preventing symptomatic and asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections and COVID-19-related hospitalizations, severe disease and death, including those caused by the [British] variant.

It's the Uruguaian government who made this claim
https://www.elpais.com.uy/informacion/s ... medad.html


The article highlights that Pfizer is being given to the at-risk and elderly population in Uruguay so the numbers aren't really comparable.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:33 am

Derico wrote:
Is this it, no new vaccines in the pipeline? It appears for two or three months now it is the same old vaccines. I would have thought the more timed passed, the more laboratories would be publishing results of their trials. Quite disappointing.



There are plenty still in the works. Plus many countries are starting to investigate mixing the vaccines.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:34 am

Derico wrote:
Is this it, no new vaccines in the pipeline? It appears for two or three months now it is the same old vaccines. I would have thought the more timed passed, the more laboratories would be publishing results of their trials. Quite disappointing.

There are still some other by other companies or countries but none appears to have significant benefits over already approved vaccines. Maybe Novavax is something to look at but I don't think it'd turn the table. And then the next thing to look for will be baccines updated for variants, yet if Indian variants are overtaking e.g. N501Y then they might not be able to catch up
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:07 am

c933103 wrote:
Derico wrote:
Is this it, no new vaccines in the pipeline? It appears for two or three months now it is the same old vaccines. I would have thought the more timed passed, the more laboratories would be publishing results of their trials. Quite disappointing.

There are still some other by other companies or countries but none appears to have significant benefits over already approved vaccines. Maybe Novavax is something to look at but I don't think it'd turn the table. And then the next thing to look for will be baccines updated for variants, yet if Indian variants are overtaking e.g. N501Y then they might not be able to catch up

NovaVax end of September. This will miss the developed markets:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/dont-co ... -05-28?amp

CureVac is going forward with trials:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/curevac ... -05-31?amp

Valneva is being developed as a variant booster (missed the market timing for primary vaccine):
https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1030447509

Sanofi has started trials:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/sa ... NewsSearch

But as already noted, nothing significant above the available vaccines.

There is an excellent vaccine summary online:
https://vac-lshtm.shinyapps.io/ncov_vaccine_landscape/

Vaccine candidates: 320
In use: 17
https://vac-lshtm.shinyapps.io/ncov_vaccine_landscape/

Interesting summary on status in that link. Nothing groundbreaking expected that I know of.

What we need is production volume in multi-billion doses.

Lightsaber
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cskok8
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:24 am

I wonder how they are going to do the trials for new vaccines now that there are established ones in the market. Wouldn't a double blind trial unnecessarily expose those who got the placebo to infections when they could have got one of the existing vaccines.
 
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BaconButty
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:07 pm

cskok8 wrote:
I wonder how they are going to do the trials for new vaccines now that there are established ones in the market. Wouldn't a double blind trial unnecessarily expose those who got the placebo to infections when they could have got one of the existing vaccines.


For Valneva the control cohort will have another vaccine (AZ iirc). It simply has to do as well or better.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:31 pm

cskok8 wrote:
I wonder how they are going to do the trials for new vaccines now that there are established ones in the market. Wouldn't a double blind trial unnecessarily expose those who got the placebo to infections when they could have got one of the existing vaccines.

Plenty of underdeveloped countries still have not enough vaccines

https://www.traveller.com.au/vaccine-to ... abs-h1w64q
People from around the world are flying to the US for vaccine
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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yonahleung
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:02 pm

BaconButty wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
I wonder how they are going to do the trials for new vaccines now that there are established ones in the market. Wouldn't a double blind trial unnecessarily expose those who got the placebo to infections when they could have got one of the existing vaccines.


For Valneva the control cohort will have another vaccine (AZ iirc). It simply has to do as well or better.


If I am a developer I will just pick Sinopharm or Sinovac as the control, which is obviously a much lower bar to clear.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:03 pm

yonahleung wrote:
BaconButty wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
I wonder how they are going to do the trials for new vaccines now that there are established ones in the market. Wouldn't a double blind trial unnecessarily expose those who got the placebo to infections when they could have got one of the existing vaccines.


For Valneva the control cohort will have another vaccine (AZ iirc). It simply has to do as well or better.


If I am a developer I will just pick Sinopharm or Sinovac as the control, which is obviously a much lower bar to clear.

Testing in the UK requires a UK approved vaccine to compare to. At the start of the study, only AZ and Pfizer were approved.

A reasonable way to test.

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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:31 pm

https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOUA ... 1A6000000/
Japanese government say they secured 50 Million dose of vaccines for regular person aged 12-64 available in June, and from June 21, companies and schools will also help giving out vaccines with occupational health physician and such.
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Derico
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:19 pm

Well, those are stupid policies, the problem is supply, so if some new manufacturer's vaccine is hypothetically only 74% effective compared to 80% of the comparison, it is still a useful vaccine specially if it brings mortality rates way down. Sometimes I just don't understand the caginess of authorities. So what if the new vaccine does better then? Will the "control" be banned?
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ThePointblank
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:26 pm

Canada has authorized the mixing and matching of the three approved COVID vaccines that require second doses:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-m ... -1.6048152

Canada is changing its guidelines on mixing and matching second doses of COVID-19 vaccines and is now advising Canadians to combine either the AstraZeneca-Oxford, Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna shots interchangeably in certain situations.

The National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) updated its guidance to provinces and territories Tuesday and recommended that a first shot of the AstraZeneca vaccine can be followed by either Moderna or Pfizer.

For Canadians who have had a first dose of Moderna or Pfizer, NACI recommends they can now take either of the two shots as a second dose — because they both use a similar mRNA technology — if the same first dose is unavailable or unknown.

The updated NACI guidance is based on emerging research from Spain and the United Kingdom that found mixing and matching AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines was both safe and effective at preventing COVID-19.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:57 am

lightsaber wrote:
This is anecdotal...

My relatives coronavirus ward was stood back up. In her Western US area (she would prefer I not say where) the predominant strain is now B1.1.617.x (Indian variants). The number one issue is motivating hospital staff as they fatigued and now the patients are all people who should have been vaccinated except for one. They call it empathy fatigue, but I found links calling it compassion fatigue.

https://www.apa.org/topics/covid-19/compassion-fatigue

Part of the problem is their workload is now, excluding that one patient, entirely people who could have had the first jab and are now requiring extensive and expensive care the staff knows was avoidable. e.g., one previously healthy patient is getting a medicine with horrid side effects, a medicine where100% of patients have some long term negative consequence, but without will die. (Not in question).

The doctors and nurses need a break. How does my sister motivate the staff when they are burned out and being asked to (locally) surge again when every patient could have avoided the hospital with one jab including the "11 to 19" year old who looked healthy, but died quick. They unfortunately have a collection of teenagers in their ward. (In fairness, 80% of the patients are, err... visibly with comobidities).
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... uxbndlbing

They even now have to test for and isolate B.1.1.617.x from all other coronavirus patients as cross contamination is a worry, both ways.

How do we mitigate the unfounded fear mongering on vaccines? My relative doesn't want the business! Her staff is ready to be disbanded and return to their "day jobs" (e.g., gall bladder treatment, nephrology, cardiac care, or "elective surgery.")

So in this vaccine hesitant society, how to promote more engagement of the medical staff? They're actively avoiding the new coronavirus teams vs. volunteering. My relative is having to assign staff back to the ward as why deal with dying patients who have no reason to die (not fun for medical staff)?

/rant

Lightsaber

I think this is a sign that herd immunity isn't working and unvaccinated cannot rely on vaccinated to protect themselves, each must rely on their own individual immunity
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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Chemist
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:21 am

I messaged my High School friend (from decades ago) on Facebook who said that she "doesn't trust the vaccines". I pointed out that she's not choosing between the vaccine risks and no vaccine risks - she's choosing between the vaccine risks and the COVID risks.
 
marcelh
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:32 am

Another production site for Moderna:

https://pharma.lonza.com/news/2021-06-02-07-02

“ A new drug substance production line at Lonza’s site in Geleen, Netherlands will complement the existing production network and support the manufacture of up to an additional 300 million doses per year”

So no fear of possible blocking by the EU…..
 
ltbewr
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:09 pm

There is growing use of money and other prizes in the USA States to bribe/encourage persons to get the Covid-19 vaccinations. Basically there are lottery like drawings of those that get the vaccines in their state to get large cash prizes like $1 Million or more or in Ohio for those 12-16 a free ride scholarship to a state College/University. This is the latest and largest one: https://www.aol.com/news/mexico-offers- ... 59353.html
The questions that come up is 1) this ethical, 2) effective, and 3) Cost efficient.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:56 pm

Derico wrote:
Well, those are stupid policies, the problem is supply, so if some new manufacturer's vaccine is hypothetically only 74% effective compared to 80% of the comparison, it is still a useful vaccine specially if it brings mortality rates way down. Sometimes I just don't understand the caginess of authorities. So what if the new vaccine does better then? Will the "control" be banned?

New vaccines mean production isn't in place yet. In other words, resources that will be deployed into making new vaccines could have been goes into improving existing vaccines instead. Hence it doesn't make sense to make a new one worse than what already availabl
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
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par13del
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:00 pm

ltbewr wrote:
There is growing use of money and other prizes in the USA States to bribe/encourage persons to get the Covid-19 vaccinations. Basically there are lottery like drawings of those that get the vaccines in their state to get large cash prizes like $1 Million or more or in Ohio for those 12-16 a free ride scholarship to a state College/University. This is the latest and largest one: https://www.aol.com/news/mexico-offers- ... 59353.html
The questions that come up is 1) this ethical, 2) effective, and 3) Cost efficient.

I guess each state where this is being done is looking at the revenues (taxes) lost and the expenses incurred to keep the state functional, the vaccines are free so that is not an additional cost. As to whether it is ethical, only time will tell, if years down the road there are health effects on those who took the vaccine.....however, I somehow think that since the entire world is onboard and the developed nations started first, this will be an event that is too big to fail.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:42 pm

ltbewr wrote:
There is growing use of money and other prizes in the USA States to bribe/encourage persons to get the Covid-19 vaccinations. Basically there are lottery like drawings of those that get the vaccines in their state to get large cash prizes like $1 Million or more or in Ohio for those 12-16 a free ride scholarship to a state College/University. This is the latest and largest one: https://www.aol.com/news/mexico-offers- ... 59353.html
The questions that come up is 1) this ethical, 2) effective, and 3) Cost efficient.

To answer the question of effectiveness of doing so, one must first analyze and quantify what benefit would it bring to the society for eaxh additional individuals being vaccinated.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
flyguy89
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:01 pm

par13del wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
There is growing use of money and other prizes in the USA States to bribe/encourage persons to get the Covid-19 vaccinations. Basically there are lottery like drawings of those that get the vaccines in their state to get large cash prizes like $1 Million or more or in Ohio for those 12-16 a free ride scholarship to a state College/University. This is the latest and largest one: https://www.aol.com/news/mexico-offers- ... 59353.html
The questions that come up is 1) this ethical, 2) effective, and 3) Cost efficient.

I guess each state where this is being done is looking at the revenues (taxes) lost and the expenses incurred to keep the state functional, the vaccines are free so that is not an additional cost. As to whether it is ethical, only time will tell, if years down the road there are health effects on those who took the vaccine.....however, I somehow think that since the entire world is onboard and the developed nations started first, this will be an event that is too big to fail.

The federal government is quite literally showering states with money that they don’t need but have to spend, so might as well use some of it to incent vaccinations.
 
art
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:08 pm

UK has vaccinated (first jab) over 75% of population of 18 years or more.

Recent UK 7 day avg infection numbers:

May
26th - 2582
27th - 2655
28th - 2785
29th - 2941
30th - 3071
31st - 3206
June
1st - 3304
2nd - 3486

Trend is not good.

About 2 weeks ago restrictions were eased. In the last 4 weeks Indian variant (is it delta now?) has become dominant variant in UK.

The UK plans to return to normal (more or less) June 21st. I can see that being stopped by this variant. 5000 new infections a day in a week's time? 10,000 a day in 2 weeks' time?
 
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aerolimani
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:34 pm

art wrote:
UK has vaccinated (first jab) over 75% of population of 18 years or more.

Recent UK 7 day avg infection numbers:

May
26th - 2582
27th - 2655
28th - 2785
29th - 2941
30th - 3071
31st - 3206
June
1st - 3304
2nd - 3486

Trend is not good.

About 2 weeks ago restrictions were eased. In the last 4 weeks Indian variant (is it delta now?) has become dominant variant in UK.

The UK plans to return to normal (more or less) June 21st. I can see that being stopped by this variant. 5000 new infections a day in a week's time? 10,000 a day in 2 weeks' time?

But what use is the case number statistic, without any other metrics? What do hospitalizations look like? ICU occupation? What do the COVID death statistics look like? How many of these cases are unvaccinated, one jab, or two jab people?

Without this information, panic is premature.
 
art
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:19 pm

aerolimani wrote:
art wrote:
UK has vaccinated (first jab) over 75% of population of 18 years or more.

Recent UK 7 day avg infection numbers:

May
26th - 2582
27th - 2655
28th - 2785
29th - 2941
30th - 3071
31st - 3206
June
1st - 3304
2nd - 3486

Trend is not good.

About 2 weeks ago restrictions were eased. In the last 4 weeks Indian variant (is it delta now?) has become dominant variant in UK.

The UK plans to return to normal (more or less) June 21st. I can see that being stopped by this variant. 5000 new infections a day in a week's time? 10,000 a day in 2 weeks' time?

But what use is the case number statistic, without any other metrics? What do hospitalizations look like? ICU occupation? What do the COVID death statistics look like? How many of these cases are unvaccinated, one jab, or two jab people?

Without this information, panic is premature.


UK has quite a high proportion of population with some degree of protection, either through vaccination or recovery from infection. I was making the point that new, more infectious variants may have sufficient impact to persuade governments to reverse liberalisation of rules that were there to supress transmission.

In UK I think we will get to effective overall herd immunity because in the region of 90% of the population is in favour of vaccination. In other countries with a lower proportion of people accepting vaccination, I suspect this cycle of more transmissible variants appearing and the disease rising to epidemic proportions again may go on and on.

As for data about hospitalisations, ICU demand, deaths, I don't think we will have a problem here since full immunisation has been given to around 95% of people in the groups that represented around 99% of mortality from COVID-19 before vaccines arrived.
 
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par13del
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:30 pm

Question is, is the new variant creating problems with those who are un-vaccinated? If true, do they want to publish such data, would it help vaccine hesitancy?
https://news.sky.com/story/indian-varia ... k-12307777
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:21 pm

par13del wrote:
Question is, is the new variant creating problems with those who are un-vaccinated? If true, do they want to publish such data, would it help vaccine hesitancy?
https://news.sky.com/story/indian-varia ... k-12307777

I think what the news say, as in the virus will spread quickly among unvaccinated but vaccine can offer protection, is true for essentially all variants, but Indian variant would spread a bit quicker and specifically mentioning it can bring up a stronger impact against those who are hesitated against vaccine, as just mentioning the virus itself could cause people thinking it's the same as what have been experienced over the past 1 years and thus they probably cannot feel the impact or the immediate needs for them to add protection to themselves, but when such a new variant is mentioned which is new and foreign to the local people, it bring in uncertainty which make people grow concern and worry about uncertain impact such new thing could bring into their life, and thus could better persuade people into re-evaluating their own risk and the benefit of getting the vaccines.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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BaconButty
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:31 pm

par13del wrote:
Question is, is the new variant creating problems with those who are un-vaccinated? If true, do they want to publish such data, would it help vaccine hesitancy?
https://news.sky.com/story/indian-varia ... k-12307777


Yes it is infecting the unvaccinated.

Yes the data (lots of it) is published. For example I pulled this off the governments website for Bolton, the local authority worst hit by the delta variant:
Image

We're vaccinating down the age groups, so it's pretty clear the effect of the vaccines. Bolton seems to have peaked, by the way, and is on the way down. Also interesting to note is that it started in the 5-19 groups in late April, almost immediately moving to the 30-44 groups - their parents. The gap in between being filled in quickly, but it doesn't spread up the age groups much. Lots of slicing and dicing can be done here. There's more data than any sane person could want to read strewn across the various government websites, but frankly this whole episode has brought to light how utterly abysmal our press is with numeracy, statistics and data, and conveying these things to the general public.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:08 am

BaconButty wrote:
par13del wrote:
Question is, is the new variant creating problems with those who are un-vaccinated? If true, do they want to publish such data, would it help vaccine hesitancy?
https://news.sky.com/story/indian-varia ... k-12307777


Yes it is infecting the unvaccinated.

Yes the data (lots of it) is published. For example I pulled this off the governments website for Bolton, the local authority worst hit by the delta variant:
Image

We're vaccinating down the age groups, so it's pretty clear the effect of the vaccines. Bolton seems to have peaked, by the way, and is on the way down. Also interesting to note is that it started in the 5-19 groups in late April, almost immediately moving to the 30-44 groups - their parents. The gap in between being filled in quickly, but it doesn't spread up the age groups much. Lots of slicing and dicing can be done here. There's more data than any sane person could want to read strewn across the various government websites, but frankly this whole episode has brought to light how utterly abysmal our press is with numeracy, statistics and data, and conveying these things to the general public.

Fascinating chart. That took a few minutes to read and fully comprehend, but it does tell a distinct story of how the vaccinations are stopping the disease.

And how the unvaccinated are plague rats. :duck: Seriously, poor parents! I so want my younger child vaccinated, but it will be a while. :cry2:

Lightsaber
7 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:43 pm

BaconButty wrote:
par13del wrote:
Question is, is the new variant creating problems with those who are un-vaccinated? If true, do they want to publish such data, would it help vaccine hesitancy?
https://news.sky.com/story/indian-varia ... k-12307777


Yes it is infecting the unvaccinated.

Yes the data (lots of it) is published. For example I pulled this off the governments website for Bolton, the local authority worst hit by the delta variant:
Image

We're vaccinating down the age groups, so it's pretty clear the effect of the vaccines. Bolton seems to have peaked, by the way, and is on the way down. Also interesting to note is that it started in the 5-19 groups in late April, almost immediately moving to the 30-44 groups - their parents. The gap in between being filled in quickly, but it doesn't spread up the age groups much. Lots of slicing and dicing can be done here. There's more data than any sane person could want to read strewn across the various government websites, but frankly this whole episode has brought to light how utterly abysmal our press is with numeracy, statistics and data, and conveying these things to the general public.

Is the 5-19 group getting high case count despite the previous waves lacking them, a result of variant strains?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
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fallap
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:05 pm

Gonna get my Johnson next week, and hopefully I can get on with my life.
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
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BaconButty
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:20 pm

c933103 wrote:
Is the 5-19 group getting high case count despite the previous waves lacking them, a result of variant strains?

Good question. I suspect it's that fact that schools are now open normally. And with very little done in mitigation, no masks even, just lateral flow tests twice a week, which are being used less and less as time goes on. From January to early March they were shut, same in November.

Public Health England released it's most recent technical report into the Delta variant today, and it's grim reading. The secondary attack rate (i.e. community transmission) is about 50% worse that the alpha variant. There's some immune escape, but not too bad, but it now looks like the severity is worse too.

Vaccines doing a job though:
73% of Delta cases are in unvaccinated people - about 40% of the population.
Only 3.7% Delta cases are in people who’ve had both doses, also about 40%. Nice symmetry there.
Only 5% (7) hospital admissions in people with Delta variant are fully vaccinated
2 deaths in fully vaccinated people, 3 in partially vaccinated, and 11 in unvaccinated. Quite good, considering the unvaccinated tend to be young.

All relevant stuff, given that this variant is probably coming to a town near you, hopefully not too soon. Unless your political leader as as much a blithering idiot as ours. I fear what this will do to countries with low vaccination rates, I suppose India was a foretaste.

Technical Briefing 14 on B.1.617.2/Delta
https://t.co/QRUPd926sI

Edit: just reading, the severity is much worse. 2.61x more likely to be hospitalised (95% confidence interval 1.5x to 4x roughly). Ouch. Maybe it wasn't the rise in cases that did for India.

I'm amazed the Portuguese are upset at us putting them on amber for travel. Ironically that was to prevent the so called Nepal variant coming the other way.
Last edited by BaconButty on Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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fallap
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:36 pm

Chemist wrote:
I messaged my High School friend (from decades ago) on Facebook who said that she "doesn't trust the vaccines". I pointed out that she's not choosing between the vaccine risks and no vaccine risks - she's choosing between the vaccine risks and the COVID risks.


Depending on her age and health Covid-19 may not be any significant risk to her. I am 30 myself and I don't really consider Covid-19 any significant threat to my personal health. If I get infected I will probaly be sick for a few days and then be back on my feet again. My impression is that a lot of reasonable people who wouldn't think twice about getting a regular vaccine are understandably hestitant getting the Covid-19 vaccine because of the whole vaccine screw-up portrayed by the media with AstraZenica where healthy people have died due to bloodclotting. I mean, can we really blame younger healthy people for refuding to take a vaccine that could potentially kill them to save them against a virus that doesn't pose any serious risk against them?

I am getting the J&J next week, mainly so I can get on with my life and don't need to be tested everyday to lead a normal life.
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science

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