fallap wrote:

Chemist wrote:

I messaged my High School friend (from decades ago) on Facebook who said that she "doesn't trust the vaccines". I pointed out that she's not choosing between the vaccine risks and no vaccine risks - she's choosing between the vaccine risks and the COVID risks.

Depending on her age and health Covid-19 may not be any significant risk to her. I am 30 myself and I don't really consider Covid-19 any significant threat to my personal health. If I get infected I will probaly be sick for a few days and then be back on my feet again. My impression is that a lot of reasonable people who wouldn't think twice about getting a regular vaccine are understandably hestitant getting the Covid-19 vaccine because of the whole vaccine screw-up portrayed by the media with AstraZenica where healthy people have died due to bloodclotting. I mean, can we really blame younger healthy people for refuding to take a vaccine that could potentially kill them to save them against a virus that doesn't pose any serious risk against them?

I am getting the J&J next week, mainly so I can get on with my life and don't need to be tested everyday to lead a normal life.

My relative is a doctor in a small city hospital's critical care ward. They just had a healthy teenager male:
Day 1, critical care coronavirus ward
Day 2 ICU
Day 3 roll the body to the morgue
And this hospital gets awards on Coronavirus care!

This hospital serves six resort towns including Aspen and Telluride and we have an exact repeat of wave 1 except teenagers are now in the coronavirus ward.

The coronavirus ward was disbanded for 3 weeks (no patients), started up on Saturday, and now busy.

My relative has advised avoid airports and indoor dining. This relative advises to enjoy outdoor dining, including bars. Those don't increase their workload.

I'm going to be chicken little for six weeks. I know the caseload in that state is going down. Those resorts, with people gathering from around the world, was the seed of wave 1 and now the seed of wave 5 has started.

I cannot provide a link. So consider it my opinion. Call it Delta, B.1.617.2, or the worst of the Indian variants, but it made the crowded resort bars last weekend and now they are flying home. This strain is fast, but half are vaccinated, but it is here.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/06 ... -know.html

Note: my relative reports no children age 14 or less in hospital, theoretically little ACE2 receptors. Let us just say most of the patients are obviously high ACE2 receptors.

Lightsaber

Late edit: Read BaconBeatty above on this variant. B.1.617.2 "Delta" is going to be "interesting" for those avoiding the vaccine.

Even later edit, my oldest just had jab #2. I wish my youngest qualified for the vaccine. I would do one adult dose now and wait for certification for follow up.

Edit, teenager isn't allowed in critical care, it was pediatric care day 1 to ICU, my misunderstanding.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/d3324 ... 30504c2507
https://tw.news.yahoo.com/%E6%97%A5124% ... 32786.html
Chinese government response to government of Taiwan accepting vaccine donation from Japan, criticizeing them by claiming "only safe, efficient, rich in quantity Chinese vaccine can effectively prevent virus infection", and accuse the government of Taiwan as playing politics not taking Chinese vaccines

lightsaber wrote:

[

Lightsaber

Late edit: Read BaconBeatty above on this variant. B.1.617.2 "Delta" is going to be "interesting" for those avoiding the vaccine.

Even later edit, my oldest just had jab #2. I wish my youngest qualified for the vaccine. I would do one adult dose now and wait for certification for follow up.

I took the liberty of cutting out most of your post for the sake cluttering the topic.

Yes, I am in no way denying that young people can be susceptible to the Covid-19 infection and suffer terrible consequenses. But statistically it is a lot less likely when you are young and in good health. I look forward to get my vaccine, but I won't deny that my main reason is not to protect myself, but to protect others - along with my very selfish reasons of being able to live my life again without having to be tested all the time (In Denmark you need a negative test to go to café's, restaurants etc.) <3

COVID tests are free here in France, what about other countries ? I've just seen that Belgians were making the trip across the border, sometimes from quite far away, to get tested here, because in Belgium it's 47€ for a test.

Aesma wrote:

COVID tests are free here in France, what about other countries ? I've just seen that Belgians were making the trip across the border, sometimes from quite far away, to get tested here, because in Belgium it's 47€ for a test.

Hong Kong government intended to end free testing for some jobs that they require testing every 1 or 2 week by exempting vaccinated people from such testing requirement, hence putting the burden of testing fee on workers who still haven't got the vaccine

Some new data from UK on Pfizer 2 dose+30 day efficacy on B.1.617.2, 5.8x decrease in neutralization, not promising.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 40-6736(21)01290-3/fulltext

dtw2hyd wrote:

Some new data from UK on Pfizer 2 dose+30 day efficacy on B.1.617.2, 5.8x decrease in neutralization, not promising.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 40-6736(21)01290-3/fulltext

Eh the real world data remains promising: 73% of B.1.617.2 cases in UK are in unvaccinated individuals, just 3.7% among fully vaccinated. The story remains the same: increase vaccinations as quickly as possible.

fallap wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

[

Lightsaber

Late edit: Read BaconBeatty above on this variant. B.1.617.2 "Delta" is going to be "interesting" for those avoiding the vaccine.

Even later edit, my oldest just had jab #2. I wish my youngest qualified for the vaccine. I would do one adult dose now and wait for certification for follow up.

I took the liberty of cutting out most of your post for the sake cluttering the topic.

Yes, I am in no way denying that young people can be susceptible to the Covid-19 infection and suffer terrible consequenses. But statistically it is a lot less likely when you are young and in good health. I look forward to get my vaccine, but I won't deny that my main reason is not to protect myself, but to protect others - along with my very selfish reasons of being able to live my life again without having to be tested all the time (In Denmark you need a negative test to go to café's, restaurants etc.) <3

I had the same mentality as you when it came to getting vaccinated… really wasn’t so much scared of getting the virus myself, but more so wanted to get the vaccine so I wouldn’t spread it to others and contribute to continuing the pandemic.

Aesma wrote:

COVID tests are free here in France, what about other countries ? I've just seen that Belgians were making the trip across the border, sometimes from quite far away, to get tested here, because in Belgium it's 47€ for a test.

Free in the UK, like most places I imagine. Except for travel. You can also pick up a pack of 7 LFTs for free. I did but haven't used any yet. The idea was to take one before going round to my parents, but they're double dosed with Pfizer now and romping around town with gay abandon, so I haven't bothered. Might rethink with the Delta variant now dominant.

Lightsaber wrote:

I'm going to be chicken little for six weeks.

Me too. May be a bit over cautious, but catching it now would be like buying the farm in November 1918. It's interesting watching the data over here, there's two pandemics going on, against the alpha and Delta variants, and numbers, for now, are low enough for them not to compete much. Alpha follows it's downward trajectory as before, and in doing so has masked until recently the rise of Delta. It may be that the US is at that point now. Anyway, there's no hiding it now, doubling every 8 days by some estimates. It could go quite a few ways from here on, at least over the pond and in mainland Europe you'll have the privilege of watching how it goes. Fingers crossed!

Got one kid vaccinated too. The lad isn't and has got some scarring on his lungs from childhood Pneumonia. On the plus side he has probably had Covid at Uni, didn't get tested though, and will probably get his jab in a month. Sympathise with you, you know the odds are remote, but it doesn't stop the concern, especially when you have the inside track on what's happening in hospitals.

Speaking of inside tracks, seems one of my neighbours works for the company doing fill finish on AZ in Wrexham. My wife was having a chin-wag with her last Sunday, and it looks like they already, or are preparing to deliver to "other customers". So some exports at least.

BaconButty wrote:

Speaking of inside tracks, seems one of my neighbours works for the company doing fill finish on AZ in Wrexham. My wife was having a chin-wag with her last Sunday, and it looks like they already, or are preparing to deliver to "other customers". So some exports at least.

I think many of us expected British vaccine export to start soon.
I haven't seen much written in the media (mostly talking about the 80 Mio US donation), but from the delivery to the US given by the CDC, US factories look like exporting over 15 Mio jabs/week since the last 4 weeks.
EU factories should be able to realse more jabs for export soon. And there is still additional production coming online.
Now UK jabs come online too. And with Novavax for example, additional capacity will come online too.
China with 20 Mio jabs administrated daily will give a massive boost in a few months too (in addition to what they already export).
More AZ plants start to master production (Argentina/Mexico, Thailand,...). Licensed Sputnik V and Chinese vaccine production coming online. India producing almost enough to cover its population. South Korea investing big in production capacity...
Soon the many countries with low vaccine access will receive ample stock...but in the media the debate about IP vaiver still dominates!
Short & Midterm supply are solved. But distribution is not in poor countries. That's the place the world should put its focus.

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/ and some Google search.

Beat regards and stay safe
Jonas

BaconButty wrote:

Aesma wrote:

COVID tests are free here in France, what about other countries ? I've just seen that Belgians were making the trip across the border, sometimes from quite far away, to get tested here, because in Belgium it's 47€ for a test.

Free in the UK, like most places I imagine. Except for travel. You can also pick up a pack of 7 LFTs for free. I did but haven't used any yet. The idea was to take one before going round to my parents, but they're double dosed with Pfizer now and romping around town with gay abandon, so I haven't bothered. Might rethink with the Delta variant now dominant.

Lightsaber wrote:

I'm going to be chicken little for six weeks.

Me too. May be a bit over cautious, but catching it now would be like buying the farm in November 1918. It's interesting watching the data over here, there's two pandemics going on, against the alpha and Delta variants, and numbers, for now, are low enough for them not to compete much. Alpha follows it's downward trajectory as before, and in doing so has masked until recently the rise of Delta. It may be that the US is at that point now. Anyway, there's no hiding it now, doubling every 8 days by some estimates. It could go quite a few ways from here on, at least over the pond and in mainland Europe you'll have the privilege of watching how it goes. Fingers crossed!

Got one kid vaccinated too. The lad isn't and has got some scarring on his lungs from childhood Pneumonia. On the plus side he has probably had Covid at Uni, didn't get tested though, and will probably get his jab in a month. Sympathise with you, you know the odds are remote, but it doesn't stop the concern, especially when you have the inside track on what's happening in hospitals.

Speaking of inside tracks, seems one of my neighbours works for the company doing fill finish on AZ in Wrexham. My wife was having a chin-wag with her last Sunday, and it looks like they already, or are preparing to deliver to "other customers". So some exports at least.

Ok, my relatives hospital's ICU is now full.
Coronavirus ward is short nurses (this is ramping up faster than they can call them in, not a permanent problem, just the rate of cases). Enough doctors (pulling from other departments).

Unvacvinated kids are a concern.
Unvacvinated adults have more risk...

Lightsaber

AirbusCheerlead wrote:

Soon the many countries with low vaccine access will receive ample stock...but in the media the debate about IP vaiver still dominates!
Short & Midterm supply are solved. But distribution is not in poor countries. That's the place the world should put its focus.

Jonas

Totally agree. In Q3 we're going to see a big drop off in Western demand and a massive increase in supply. Logistics will inevitably be the constraint. I would be a lot happier if the WHO was banging on about cold chains in Africa instead of IP waivers.

BaconButty wrote:

Speaking of inside tracks, seems one of my neighbours works for the company doing fill finish on AZ in Wrexham. My wife was having a chin-wag with her last Sunday, and it looks like they already, or are preparing to deliver to "other customers". So some exports at least.

At least? “At last” would be more appropriate…

AirbusCheerlead wrote:

EU factories should be able to realse more jabs for export soon.

EU has already exported about 200 million doses a month ago:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-has-exported-about-200-mln-doses-covid-19-vaccines-sefcovic-says-2021-05-11/

My relative is way behind on death certificates. When you work 14+ hours until you don't have anything more to give to save people, do you really stick around to do 90 minutes of paperwork that cannot save anyone. My relative is pissed to work 8 days in a row to save people and will have to give up a day, unpaid, to fill out death certificates. Until then, none of the unvacs are legally dead...

The 5th wave has started in a country only 37% Vaccinated. They cannot get nurses to volunteer as:
1. Last volunteers worked 8 days in a row*13 hours per day (nurses work shorter days than doctors)
2. vacations were cancelled for a year and they *need* vacations now
3. Except for 4 patients (3 cancer who cannot build immunity and the last is morbidly obese who are just more likely to go into the hospital) the desire to sacrifice for patients isn't there.

So the hospital is assigning nurses. 40% percent are unvaccinated and just being told "your assignment starts in two weeks, we suggest getting vaccinated today). Assigned cannot be denied pre-planned vacations and are only for 5 weeks.

They need to stand up a 3rd coronavirus ward for the unvacs, but they just do not have the nurses (assigned must be given 2 weeks notice and after a year, few volunteers and since they had no patients for 3 weeks, prior volunteers were released). So they are putting "nice adults" into the pediatric coronavirus ward (yes, they have had to stand up a pediatric coronavirus ward). But are keeping two rooms empty as a buffer to the kids and as a surge capacity for the kids and... honestly, these patients couldn't walk out of a room anyway, it is more using available staff. (They had volunteer nurses when the kids started filling up the coronavirus ward... The nurses are not happy being assigned adults, so they are giving them the 'sympathy' cases too. e.g., the 4 vaccine breakthroughs or the Unvac kindergarten teacher and such). Not the unVac bar hopper.

A few days late, I will disclose the location. Do recall it is my relative who fills out the death certificates and between sleep to save more people tomorrow and paperwork, my relative chose sleep. So deaths aren't counted for the most part.
https://www.denverpost.com/2021/06/05/m ... acity/amp/

par13del wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Aesma wrote:

COVID tests are free here in France, what about other countries ? I've just seen that Belgians were making the trip across the border, sometimes from quite far away, to get tested here, because in Belgium it's 47€ for a test.

Hong Kong government intended to end free testing for some jobs that they require testing every 1 or 2 week by exempting vaccinated people from such testing requirement, hence putting the burden of testing fee on workers who still haven't got the vaccine

Major hotel property here in the Bahamas is doing the same effective September 2021, as of now they are testing staff weekly.

That is fair.

Lightsaber

Ps, from above link (late edit)
There are about 100 cases of the B.1.617.2 variant, which initially was discovered in India, in the county. The strain was first identified in Mesa County a month ago.
My relative notes few being tested for variants and testing is days behind as priority given to the hospital to prevent mixing variants. e.g., B.1.1.7 with B.1.617.2 is a really bad day.

Also note the beds 96% full and they are keeping beds in the non-coronavirus wards open and the pediatric coronavirus ward open intentionally. They are, in my opinion, full due to the 37% rate of vaccination.

Enter the hospital and Unvacs are being told to get vaccinated today!!!

Even later edit, the empty ICU beds are only now at the veterans hospital. So only that group can get an ICU bed. They are coordinating with Salt Lake City and Denver to take patients. The air national guard has been activated for fixed wing patient transfer.

PPS
(really late edit): I need to be more precise on the ICU.The ICU is setup in quads.

If one bed in an ICU quad has a coronavirus patient, Zero non-coronavirus patients and zero other contagious patients.

If one bed has an influenza partient, it is an influenza quad.

If one patient in a quad is disease free, no infectious patients may be moved into that quad.

One quad is dedicated (often two) for cardiac care.

One quad is dedicated non-infectious stroke.

So normal injuries and stuff mean too many of the quads must exclude coronavirus patients.

So they have open ICU beds, just not for coronavirus patients. They will consolidate, but 'warm weather injuries' are coming in (motorcycle/dirtbike/ATV/4x4 accidents, heat stroke, rock climbing falls) as well as normal heart attacks and strokes.

This is the ICU busy season anyway...

par13del wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Aesma wrote:

COVID tests are free here in France, what about other countries ? I've just seen that Belgians were making the trip across the border, sometimes from quite far away, to get tested here, because in Belgium it's 47€ for a test.

Hong Kong government intended to end free testing for some jobs that they require testing every 1 or 2 week by exempting vaccinated people from such testing requirement, hence putting the burden of testing fee on workers who still haven't got the vaccine

Major hotel property here in the Bahamas is doing the same effective September 2021, as of now they are testing staff weekly.

What they're doing now is, require weekly testing and charging individual staff for such testing cost, unless they exempt themselves from the requirement by vaccination

Chinese government approved SinoVac down to age of 3. SinoVac said they haven't applied to Hong Kong government yet because Hong Kong government require finishing Phase 3 testing.
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/ ... 210605.htm

In order to encourage citizens taking the vaccine, Hong Kong government vaccination site added a count down to dead line for closure of mass vaccination centers
https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/ ... 210605.htm

https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/medical/20210606-OYT1T50110/
Japan: Research on Pfizer vaccine:
Of 1774, aged 21-72, who have done 2 dose, 99.9% shows increase in antibody level, according to blood sampled 14-32 days after vaccination, including ten with past history of novel coronavirus infection
People with past history of novel coronavirus infection, female, and people taking anti-allergy are found to more easily generate more antibodies. In addition, in the range of 18-25 days of vaccination after the first dose, it's found that gapping more than 22 days would increase the antibody level more
On the other hand, people who take steroid, people who frequently drink alcohol, and such, are more difficult in increasing their antibody level. But they still think the antibody level is sufficient.

It's time for insurance companies (private and public) to do their part and vastly decrease coverage for Covid treatment to those who refuse the vaccine for no valid reason.
Crossing borders needs to be strictly reserved for vaccinated people (at least adults). More employers should pressure their employees to get vaccinated. Some tax breaks should be made dependent on vaccination, etc.

The carrot approach will only get us so far, there needs to be a stick as well. People who do not want to get vaccinated are costing society greatly.

Michigan vaccination seems to have come to a standstill. 59.4% as of 6/4. I would have preferred if it stalled at 69.4%, benefits of near herd immunity without meaningless re-openings/relaxations which will only trigger next wave.

Francoflier wrote:

Crossing borders needs to be strictly reserved for vaccinated people (at least adults). More employers should pressure their employees to get vaccinated. Some tax breaks should be made dependent on vaccination, etc.

It would hurt countries where a.) don't have enough money or a functional government to buy vaccines, and b.) countries with limited amount of coronavirus and are thus being blocked from getting vaccine export permit in sufficient quantity from vaccine producing countries as vaccine exporting countries want to use them on countries that are having more serious situation first

Francoflier wrote:

Crossing borders needs to be strictly reserved for vaccinated people (at least adults).

Don't children get coronavirus?

dtw2hyd wrote:

Michigan vaccination seems to have come to a standstill. 59.4% as of 6/4. I would have preferred if it stalled at 69.4%, benefits of near herd immunity without meaningless re-openings/relaxations which will only trigger next wave.

California touts high vaccination (lower than Michigan), but on the map there are huge wastelands under 30% vaccinated:
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-cov ... rhood-map/

The Delta variant will chew up those areas with low vaccination. At this point, with free vaccines, free uber, easy access times, it is on the unvaccinated over age 12.

I wish I could vaccinate my younger child.

Lightsaber

I'm quickly getting to the point (in the US) where those adults who are unvaccinated will just fend for themselves and take what happens. Not a lot of sympathy for those choosing not to protect themselves.

lightsaber wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Michigan vaccination seems to have come to a standstill. 59.4% as of 6/4. I would have preferred if it stalled at 69.4%, benefits of near herd immunity without meaningless re-openings/relaxations which will only trigger next wave.

California touts high vaccination (lower than Michigan), but on the map there are huge wastelands under 30% vaccinated:
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-cov ... rhood-map/

The Delta variant will chew up those areas with low vaccination. At this point, with free vaccines, free uber, easy access times, it is on the unvaccinated over age 12.

I wish I could vaccinate my younger child.

Lightsaber

That's an old article from February.

Chemist wrote:

I'm quickly getting to the point (in the US) where those adults who are unvaccinated will just fend for themselves and take what happens. Not a lot of sympathy for those choosing not to protect themselves.

If the vaccine were available for kids , I would be right there with you. I know kids are generally safe, but i also know a few that have severe diseases and immune suppressant drugs are being used. That being said, we are getting to a point where i think hospitals can handle the overages. \

As for the adults, I think we will find out more as theaters, churches , conferences start opening up and businesses get back to normal. I know of quite a few companies starting to look at back to work and travel between now and September.

casinterest wrote:

I know of quite a few companies starting to look at back to work and travel between now and September.

How do they propose to deal with unvaccinated employees? Will they be allowed back? And what happens to employees who have not been vaccinated, go back to the office or travel and get COVID-19? Will their employer pay them while they are ill from something that every responsible agency told them to try to avoid through vaccination?

Can't see while writing this but I think that someone said that there are areas in US where only 30% have taken up vaccination. I don't know how widespread the delta variant is in the US. Here in England 7 day average of daily new cases of COVID-19 has more than doubled in the last 2 weeks. Here 55% population vaccination with first dose and 30% vaccination with both doses was attained 3 weeks ago.

I have saw report ftom 4 weeks ago that, Brazil have to stop production of AstraZeneca and SinoVac vaccines due to raw material shortage. Anyone have updated situation there?

c933103 wrote:

I have saw report ftom 4 weeks ago that, Brazil have to stop production of AstraZeneca and SinoVac vaccines due to raw material shortage. Anyone have updated situation there?

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... 021-06-01/

A lack of chemical ingredients, mainly delivered from China, has caused Brazil's two main vaccine production hubs, Fiocruz and the Butantan institute in Sao Paulo, to temporarily pause production of their respective shots. Fiocruz is making the AstraZeneca PLC (AZN.L) vaccine, while Butantan is manufacturing a shot developed by China's Sinovac Biotech Ltd. (SVA.O).

This will be a problem for a long time. The fact is, few countries put enough money into the supply chain, in my opinion.

Lightsaber

https://news.tbs.co.jp/newseye/tbs_newseye4287006.html
Mass vaccination center in Tokyo and Osaka are severely underbooked
Since open to appointment yesterday, the Tokyo center have 140,000 vaccination spot available for the two weeks in late June, but 125,000 are still untaken, meanwhile in Osaka, of the 70,000 spots available, 57,000 are still untaken.

lightsaber wrote:

c933103 wrote:

I have saw report ftom 4 weeks ago that, Brazil have to stop production of AstraZeneca and SinoVac vaccines due to raw material shortage. Anyone have updated situation there?

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... 021-06-01/

A lack of chemical ingredients, mainly delivered from China, has caused Brazil's two main vaccine production hubs, Fiocruz and the Butantan institute in Sao Paulo, to temporarily pause production of their respective shots. Fiocruz is making the AstraZeneca PLC (AZN.L) vaccine, while Butantan is manufacturing a shot developed by China's Sinovac Biotech Ltd. (SVA.O).

This will be a problem for a long time. The fact is, few countries put enough money into the supply chain, in my opinion.

Lightsaber

https://apnews.com/article/sao-paulo-ch ... 0e3b6be7b3
Oh so that was it, politicians in Brazil say the president and their family member should apologize to China to resume vaccine raw material import from China, following their comments which questioned origin of the virus

[quote="art"][quote="casinterest"]I know of quite a few companies starting to look at back to work and travel between now and September.[/quote]

How do they propose to deal with unvaccinated employees? Will they be allowed back? And what happens to employees who have not been vaccinated, go back to the office or travel and get COVID-19? Will their employer pay them while they are ill from something that every responsible agency told them to try to avoid through vaccination?

Can't see while writing this but I think that someone said that there are areas in US where only 30% have taken up vaccination. I don't know how widespread the delta variant is in the US. Here in England 7 day average of daily new cases of COVID-19 has more than doubled in the last 2 weeks. Here 55% population vaccination with first dose and 30% vaccination with both doses was attained 3 weeks ago.[/quote]



The thought is they will not discriminate between unvaccinated and vaccinated. Employees have made their choice. I'm certain once vaccines are fully approved, traveling positions will just require vaccination. If employees get sick, they use sick or vacation time to recover.

For 7 weeks there has been far more vaccine supply in the USA. There are sites setup for 1600+ jabs per day not even doing 20 (per verbal with the workers).

My relative is the lead doctor where the Delta variant seems to have sprung up here in the USA. Thanks to Memorial day holiday traffic, I expect it to crop up everywhere.

Here in the USA it is time for adults to take responsibility for their own vaccine. e.g., neither vaccinated or unvaccinated have sympathy for a coworker's anti-vax wife who us in day 8 of her hospital stay after recent travel. (He is vaccinated and fine.) The Delta variant is fast, Beacin Beatty posted links on how it us 2.61 times as likely to hospitalize someone.

Despite free Uber, paid time from work and easy access, huge parts of Los Angeles are < 30% vaccinated. e.g. Compton is 22%>
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-cov ... rhood-map/

The media tries to make this as something it isn't. To This is people making bad choices. If I could vaccinate my younger child, I wouldn't care, but I cannot so this makes me livid. We have links above showing unvaccinated are 10x mire likely to transmit. I live in a very highly vaccinated area, I will not take my unvaccinated kid into a low vaccinated area, so they loose my retail spending.

Cancer patients have a 50% chance if developing immunity. Because an unvaccinated idiot sat in the cancer doctor's waiting room, six people were infected. Now 3 are going to be fine. The doctors are LIVID they must choose if 3 die from cancer or coronavirus, they cannot treat both.

Lightsaber

It's interesting reading all these terrible stories coming from America. Here in Denmark, even though vaccinations are rolling out slower than expected, we are talking about removing the requirement to wear facial masks and things are opening up again. Then again we do live together with a lot fewer people and have access to free* universal healthcare

*Taxpayer funded

art wrote:

casinterest wrote:

I know of quite a few companies starting to look at back to work and travel between now and September.

How do they propose to deal with unvaccinated employees? Will they be allowed back? And what happens to employees who have not been vaccinated, go back to the office or travel and get COVID-19? Will their employer pay them while they are ill from something that every responsible agency told them to try to avoid through vaccination?

Can't see while writing this but I think that someone said that there are areas in US where only 30% have taken up vaccination. I don't know how widespread the delta variant is in the US. Here in England 7 day average of daily new cases of COVID-19 has more than doubled in the last 2 weeks. Here 55% population vaccination with first dose and 30% vaccination with both doses was attained 3 weeks ago.

For those that can work from home, you can probably continue to do so.
One employer I know of for those that want to go to the office , will have to do the below.

Provide proof you are vaccinated, or get negative covid test every 72 hours to be able to prove you are virus free to go into the office.

For those that require workers, they may choose the above, or just let them go into the office. However private businesses being what they are, they may ask visitors to provide proof.

at the end of the day, there is going to be a lot of covid tests, or people are going to get sick and tired of the hassle and just get vaccinated.

In the long run, I would imagine some HR departments may take notice of the ones that don't get vaccinated and may make a note for later layoffs/ health insurance purchases.

lightsaber wrote:

art wrote:

casinterest wrote:

I know of quite a few companies starting to look at back to work and travel between now and September.

Despite free Uber, paid time from work and easy access, huge parts of Los Angeles are < 30% vaccinated. e.g. Compton is 22%>
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-cov ... rhood-map/

Lightsaber

THAT ARTICLE IS FROM FEBRUARY!

Chemist wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

art wrote:

Despite free Uber, paid time from work and easy access, huge parts of Los Angeles are < 30% vaccinated. e.g. Compton is 22%>
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-cov ... rhood-map/

Lightsaber

THAT ARTICLE IS FROM FEBRUARY!

Oops, it was supposed to update, still not goid:

Last week they were updating charts, my mistake not noticing the chart was reverted. Same swath doing better, but not vaccinated enough to stop variant Delta and the vaccination rate has basically stopped.

http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/ ... hboard.htm

Lightsaber

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pfize ... NewsSearch

Pfizer starting phase 2 in younger children. I personally wish this was further along.

casinterest wrote:

art wrote:

casinterest wrote:

I know of quite a few companies starting to look at back to work and travel between now and September.

How do they propose to deal with unvaccinated employees? Will they be allowed back? And what happens to employees who have not been vaccinated, go back to the office or travel and get COVID-19? Will their employer pay them while they are ill from something that every responsible agency told them to try to avoid through vaccination?

Can't see while writing this but I think that someone said that there are areas in US where only 30% have taken up vaccination. I don't know how widespread the delta variant is in the US. Here in England 7 day average of daily new cases of COVID-19 has more than doubled in the last 2 weeks. Here 55% population vaccination with first dose and 30% vaccination with both doses was attained 3 weeks ago.

For those that can work from home, you can probably continue to do so.
One employer I know of for those that want to go to the office , will have to do the below.

Provide proof you are vaccinated, or get negative covid test every 72 hours to be able to prove you are virus free to go into the office.

For those that require workers, they may choose the above, or just let them go into the office. However private businesses being what they are, they may ask visitors to provide proof.

at the end of the day, there is going to be a lot of covid tests, or people are going to get sick and tired of the hassle and just get vaccinated.

In the long run, I would imagine some HR departments may take notice of the ones that don't get vaccinated and may make a note for later layoffs/ health insurance purchases.

They cannot layoff for health. What they will do is shift the cost completely.

Health care will, for the protection of patients, require vaccines.

My work will require proof of vaccination to avoid quarantine from exposure and they will stop providing pay for quarantine time. Not started, no start date set, but announced.

Work from home inefficiency is creeping in. For some work from home. Vaccines have been readily available for 16+ for 8 weeks, time for office work.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pfizer-starting-test-of-covid-19-vaccine-in-children-under-12/ar-AAKPJPK?ocid=BingNewsSearch

Pfizer starting phase 2 in younger children. I personally wish this was further along.

casinterest wrote:

art wrote:

How do they propose to deal with unvaccinated employees? Will they be allowed back? And what happens to employees who have not been vaccinated, go back to the office or travel and get COVID-19? Will their employer pay them while they are ill from something that every responsible agency told them to try to avoid through vaccination?

Can't see while writing this but I think that someone said that there are areas in US where only 30% have taken up vaccination. I don't know how widespread the delta variant is in the US. Here in England 7 day average of daily new cases of COVID-19 has more than doubled in the last 2 weeks. Here 55% population vaccination with first dose and 30% vaccination with both doses was attained 3 weeks ago.

For those that can work from home, you can probably continue to do so.
One employer I know of for those that want to go to the office , will have to do the below.

Provide proof you are vaccinated, or get negative covid test every 72 hours to be able to prove you are virus free to go into the office.

For those that require workers, they may choose the above, or just let them go into the office. However private businesses being what they are, they may ask visitors to provide proof.

at the end of the day, there is going to be a lot of covid tests, or people are going to get sick and tired of the hassle and just get vaccinated.

In the long run, I would imagine some HR departments may take notice of the ones that don't get vaccinated and may make a note for later layoffs/ health insurance purchases.

They cannot layoff for health. What they will do is shift the cost completely.

Health care will, for the protection of patients, require vaccines.

My work will require proof of vaccination to avoid quarantine from exposure and they will stop providing pay for quarantine time. Not started, no start date set, but announced.

Work from home inefficiency is creeping in. For some work from home. Vaccines have been readily available for 16+ for 8 weeks, time for office work.

Lightsaber

They can't lay you off for health conditions ,but they can require you to get a vaccination. Those that refuse to do so, can be fired unless they have a disability that prevents them from getting it.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19 ... accination

casinterest wrote:

They can't lay you off for health conditions ,but they can require you to get a vaccination. Those that refuse to do so, can be fired unless they have a disability that prevents them from getting it.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19 ... accination

That will get SCOTUS involved and whole program could be derailed. Hard to mandate a drug with EUA and government indemnity.

Peer pressure is the best option until FDA fully approves at least one vaccine. FDA full approval opens up more enforcement opportunities.

fallap wrote:

It's interesting reading all these terrible stories coming from America. Here in Denmark, even though vaccinations are rolling out slower than expected, we are talking about removing the requirement to wear facial masks and things are opening up again. Then again we do live together with a lot fewer people and have access to free* universal healthcare

*Taxpayer funded

Denmark still has a high case rate:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... rmed+cases

And the Vaccine rate is lagging:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... vaccinated

You may be amused by my reporting of the tough time I am reporting about my relative. However, Denmark hasn't gone through the Delta variant. The US and UK are being proactive to stop it.

Free healthcare doesn't help. My relative has had to prescribe a lot of painkiller up to the strongest: heroin. Yes, coronavirus can be that painful after weeks of 20+ liters a minute of high flow oxygen. Yes, I am aware a human only normally breathes 2 or 3 liters of air.

Fewer people really helps. What you need is few unvacvinated contacts.

Although, my compliments on Denmark's testing quantity:
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing

Good luck with Delta.
Lightsaber

dtw2hyd wrote:

casinterest wrote:

They can't lay you off for health conditions ,but they can require you to get a vaccination. Those that refuse to do so, can be fired unless they have a disability that prevents them from getting it.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19 ... accination

That will get SCOTUS involved and whole program could be derailed. Hard to mandate a drug with EUA and government indemnity.

Peer pressure is the best option until FDA fully approves at least one vaccine. FDA full approval opens up more enforcement opportunities.

Considering how I provided links on Pfizer and Moderna applying for full approval, this could be moot before SCOTUS hears a case.

Since unvacvinated means a 2 week quarantine with exposure, they could start forcing that 2 weeks to be fully on employee sick time or vacation time.

I agree a tough situation, outside of healthcare. Since Vaccines refuce the chance of transmission an order of magnitude, I think that can be enforced.

This all depends on how bad Delta is. If a minor uptick, nevermind. If significant, then expect enforcement. I personally believe Delta will rock the US and EU and be worse in low Vaccination countries.

I posted a link upthread on it being 6% of US cases. I know high in the UK. Is there a good EU source, or do they test variants enough? The countries not testing for variants I am of the opinion they will be blindsided.

How long did it take the UK to go from say 5% to a majority of cases with Delta? Going from memory, it seems like 3 weeks.

The question is, what countries will be blindsided? We talked about Alpha cases waning and Delta going up. It seems like it only takes a month to transition from one to the other.

We need a lot more vaccines.

Lightsaber

In UK only 3 of 126 hospitizations due to the Delta variant were fully vaccinated.
https://news.yahoo.com/news/three-vacci ... 43815.html

That is great news on vaccine effectiveness.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

casinterest wrote:

They can't lay you off for health conditions ,but they can require you to get a vaccination. Those that refuse to do so, can be fired unless they have a disability that prevents them from getting it.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19 ... accination

That will get SCOTUS involved and whole program could be derailed. Hard to mandate a drug with EUA and government indemnity.

Peer pressure is the best option until FDA fully approves at least one vaccine. FDA full approval opens up more enforcement opportunities.

Considering how I provided links on Pfizer and Moderna applying for full approval, this could be moot before SCOTUS hears a case.
...
We need a lot more vaccines.

Lightsaber

That is my hope as well. Full approval bump will be much higher than Tinder uptick(if there was such thing).

There seems a serious disagreement between regulators and rest of the scientific community on how variants are being handled.

Assuming that regulators will botch this time around, vaccines + hint of luck is the only hope.

https://www.companynewshq.com/coronavir ... for-fraud/
A Korean mayof almost fell for a scam which an overseas trade company claimed to provide 30 million Pfizer vaccines but Pfizer do not distribute vaccines via such company

A trial of an antibody-laced nasal spray appears to be effective at providing protection against variants of the COVID virus in mice:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586- ... y-20210604

A nasal spritz of a designer antibody offers strong protection against variants of the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 — at least in mice1.

Since the early days of the pandemic, scientists have been developing antibodies as treatments for COVID-19. Today, several such antibodies are in late-stage clinical trials, and a handful have been approved for emergency use by regulatory agencies in the United States and elsewhere.

Among doctors, however, antibody treatments have not been very popular, says Zhiqiang An, an antibody engineer at the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston. That’s partly because those available are delivered through intravenous infusions rather than directly to the respiratory tract, where the virus is mainly found — so it takes high doses for them to be effective. Another challenge is the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 variants that seem to be resistant to some existing antibodies.

This is obviously very early trials work, and perhaps a demonstration of a proof of concept, so don't expect this to be a treatment option anytime soon.

lightsaber wrote:

fallap wrote:

It's interesting reading all these terrible stories coming from America. Here in Denmark, even though vaccinations are rolling out slower than expected, we are talking about removing the requirement to wear facial masks and things are opening up again. Then again we do live together with a lot fewer people and have access to free* universal healthcare

*Taxpayer funded

Denmark still has a high case rate:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... rmed+cases

And the Vaccine rate is lagging:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... vaccinated

You may be amused by my reporting of the tough time I am reporting about my relative. However, Denmark hasn't gone through the Delta variant. The US and UK are being proactive to stop it.

Free healthcare doesn't help. My relative has had to prescribe a lot of painkiller up to the strongest: heroin. Yes, coronavirus can be that painful after weeks of 20+ liters a minute of high flow oxygen. Yes, I am aware a human only normally breathes 2 or 3 liters of air.

Fewer people really helps. What you need is few unvacvinated contacts.

Although, my compliments on Denmark's testing quantity:
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing

Good luck with Delta.
Lightsaber

Covid-19 in Denmark has thankfully been negligible at best, currently we are in the process of a massive re-opening and there are talks about dropping the use of masks soon. I myself will get the J&J vaccine next week

lightsaber wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

casinterest wrote:

This all depends on how bad Delta is. If a minor uptick, nevermind. If significant, then expect enforcement. I personally believe Delta will rock the US and EU and be worse in low Vaccination countries.

I posted a link upthread on it being 6% of US cases. I know high in the UK. Is there a good EU source, or do they test variants enough? The countries not testing for variants I am of the opinion they will be blindsided.

How long did it take the UK to go from say 5% to a majority of cases with Delta? Going from memory, it seems like 3 weeks.

Data from the Dutch health body (Page is English) https://www.rivm.nl/en/coronavirus-covi ... 2/variants . Currently, around 1500 samples are sequenced weekly, with somewhere between 10,000-15,000 total positive tests weekly (aka 7-10%). Delta is currently only a very minor (<1%) but public health experts are worried (see slide 25 https://www.tweedekamer.nl/sites/defaul ... isssel.pdf it's Dutch, but the graph is clear). The Danish should have even better data, but it's hard for me to dig that up.

Incidence of the Indian variant is currently low on the continent (surprisingly low say experts) hopefully the vaccination program will suppress this outbreak. People expect that vaccine uptake will look more like Britain then America (seriously US, what the f*ck are you doing!?).