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CRJ200flyer
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:24 pm

DocLightning wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
I understand the pharmacy won’t know, but won’t their insurance figure it out when it’s submitted again?


I got mine through work. I'm pretty sure my insurance never had anything to do with it.


Ah gotcha. I work for an airline, and our appointments were outsourced to CVS pharmacy at a large vaccine site, so I had to give my insurance information. I’m really hoping to get an initial shot of moderna or Pfizer as my J&J vaccine was 6 months ago now.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:10 pm

Chemist wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I say voluntarily unvaccinated as kids under 12 cannot be vaccinated. My 12+ child has been fully vaccinated for a while. My younger child cannot be vaccinated.

Lightsaber


I think under 12 are getting the short-end of the stick in this political game. Both politicians and many parents are ignoring the consequences.

In summer kids social interactions could be restricted and monitored, that is impossible in a school setting.


Normally it requires FDA clinical trial data to approve for younger. Some people feel the FDA was way too hasty in the EUA of these vaccines even in adults. Are you now saying that the FDA is dragging its feet for children?
Seems like two opposite complaints - the FDA is too hasty/reckless, and the FDA is too slow to act.


I am not suggesting FDA to do anything hastily. I want even adult vaccines to be fully licensed, not EUA.

In the absence of a vaccine, there need to be aggressive non-pharma mitigations to protect children. There are none. CDC doesn't seem to care. Parents doesn't seem to care because rest of the family is vaccinated.

Imagine an asymptomatic under 12 carrier visiting vaccinated grand parents with waning immunity. Recipe for disaster. A pessimistic view, but a disaster bound to happen strictly following CDC guidelines.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:40 am

The unvaccinated clusters will be interesting.
https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/20 ... in-ny.html


About 56% of New York’s 20 million residents are fully vaccinated.

That’s a small increase from 54.5% as of July 4, despite efforts by the Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s administrations to increase rates in the least vaccinated parts of the state.

Vaccination rates are lowest in rural counties in western and central New York, as well as parts of New York City including the Bronx and Brooklyn.


The high density, low vaccinated, areas are my primary concern. We have them here in Los Angeles too. We cannot look at this by country (although low is a red flag), state, or even county, but by community. e.g., looking at Florida, an interesting distribution by county. e.g., I'm going to an area of Florida very well vaccinated soon (including everyone in the community over age 12), but other areas... I have two friends going to the panhandle... (Insert crazy comment here.)
https://data.democratandchronicle.com/c ... lorida/12/

This is going to be a case of hyper localized outbreaks due to vaccination levels.

Lightsaber
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:43 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:


That is a very informative graph. I'm going to share it.

THanks,
Neil
 
Chemist
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:46 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Chemist wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

I think under 12 are getting the short-end of the stick in this political game. Both politicians and many parents are ignoring the consequences.

In summer kids social interactions could be restricted and monitored, that is impossible in a school setting.


Normally it requires FDA clinical trial data to approve for younger. Some people feel the FDA was way too hasty in the EUA of these vaccines even in adults. Are you now saying that the FDA is dragging its feet for children?
Seems like two opposite complaints - the FDA is too hasty/reckless, and the FDA is too slow to act.


I am not suggesting FDA to do anything hastily. I want even adult vaccines to be fully licensed, not EUA.

In the absence of a vaccine, there need to be aggressive non-pharma mitigations to protect children. There are none. CDC doesn't seem to care. Parents doesn't seem to care because rest of the family is vaccinated.

Imagine an asymptomatic under 12 carrier visiting vaccinated grand parents with waning immunity. Recipe for disaster. A pessimistic view, but a disaster bound to happen strictly following CDC guidelines.


I don't disagree with you. But due to politicization, we have governors signing executive orders forbidding schools to mandate masks. It seems kind of hopeless to have any kind of consistent protections for children, which is why Lightsaber is justifiably impatient for younger vaccine approvals.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13836
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:46 pm

Chemist wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Chemist wrote:

Normally it requires FDA clinical trial data to approve for younger. Some people feel the FDA was way too hasty in the EUA of these vaccines even in adults. Are you now saying that the FDA is dragging its feet for children?
Seems like two opposite complaints - the FDA is too hasty/reckless, and the FDA is too slow to act.


I am not suggesting FDA to do anything hastily. I want even adult vaccines to be fully licensed, not EUA.

In the absence of a vaccine, there need to be aggressive non-pharma mitigations to protect children. There are none. CDC doesn't seem to care. Parents doesn't seem to care because rest of the family is vaccinated.

Imagine an asymptomatic under 12 carrier visiting vaccinated grand parents with waning immunity. Recipe for disaster. A pessimistic view, but a disaster bound to happen strictly following CDC guidelines.


I don't disagree with you. But due to politicization, we have governors signing executive orders forbidding schools to mandate masks. It seems kind of hopeless to have any kind of consistent protections for children, which is why Lightsaber is justifiably impatient for younger vaccine approvals.



This isn't a CDC issue, and i wish folks would quit passing on that fake news., The below article points out that we have willfully destructive and evil politicians banning mask mandates.

https://www.newsweek.com/ron-desantis-f ... et-1615076

When DeSantis recently moved to ban school districts from requiring children to wear masks, his comments to the public echoed the Great Barrington Declaration. "The correlational evidence I think is mixed and there's literally no randomized evidence whatsoever for these masks in schools," Bhattacharya said Monday at a roundtable with the governor, an argument that DeSantis later parroted as the ban became widely criticized by doctors across the state.

The rationale was at odds with the CDC's recommendation of "universal indoor masking for all teachers, staff, students, and visitors to K-12 schools, regardless of vaccination status."


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/2 ... alisations

And now Florida is already surging past any previous wave infections and hospitalizations.


The state had 10,207 people hospitalised with confirmed COVID-19 cases on Sunday, according to data reported to the US Department of Health and Human Services.


That passes the previous record – reached in the height of the pandemic and before vaccines were available – of 10,170 hospitalisations on July 23 last year, according to the Florida Hospital Association.
 
dtw2hyd
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:55 pm

casinterest wrote:
This isn't a CDC issue, and i wish folks would quit passing on that fake news.,


I have my state Governor's press release and School District's e-mail quoting CDC for no-mask rule. Are you saying those are fake news?

Most officials blindly follow the easiest excuse, it is an old Soviet model but works well in modern day capitalist societies. Only a few like LA County Health department do the right thing.

It is CDC's unscientific incompetent decision trickled down and used as an excuse. CDC is the root cause of the problem.

"Use masks if you are in high-risk area", how dumb is this guidance.

No one considers themselves, their family, their sub-diviion/zip code/city/county/state as high-risk. That is the human psychology. It is always others fault.

Is there an app or COVIDAR to show you are entering high-risk area?
How many people know the link to check their zip code or the zip code they are in?
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13836
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:09 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
casinterest wrote:
This isn't a CDC issue, and i wish folks would quit passing on that fake news.,


I have my state Governor's press release and School District's e-mail quoting CDC for no-mask rule. Are you saying those are fake news?

Most officials blindly follow the easiest excuse, it is an old Soviet model but works well in modern day capitalist societies. Only a few like LA County Health department do the right thing.

It is CDC's unscientific incompetent decision trickled down and used as an excuse. CDC is the root cause of the problem.

"Use masks if you are in high-risk area", how dumb is this guidance.

No one considers themselves, their family, their sub-diviion/zipcode/city/county/state as high-risk area. That is the human psychology. It is always others fault.

Is there an app or COVIDAR to show you are entering high-risk area?
How many people know the link to check their zip code or the zip code they are in?


Post your link, and let's see if you Governor has updated their guidance to fall into the new CDC guidance which recommends mask wearing in schools.
Do not blame the CDC for the weak leaders you have chosen.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1469
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The unvaccinated clusters will be interesting.
https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/20 ... in-ny.html


About 56% of New York’s 20 million residents are fully vaccinated.

That’s a small increase from 54.5% as of July 4, despite efforts by the Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s administrations to increase rates in the least vaccinated parts of the state.

Vaccination rates are lowest in rural counties in western and central New York, as well as parts of New York City including the Bronx and Brooklyn.


The high density, low vaccinated, areas are my primary concern. We have them here in Los Angeles too. We cannot look at this by country (although low is a red flag), state, or even county, but by community. e.g., looking at Florida, an interesting distribution by county. e.g., I'm going to an area of Florida very well vaccinated soon (including everyone in the community over age 12), but other areas... I have two friends going to the panhandle... (Insert crazy comment here.)
https://data.democratandchronicle.com/c ... lorida/12/

This is going to be a case of hyper localized outbreaks due to vaccination levels.

Lightsaber


Complacency from overreliance on the vaccines’ protection may be as big if not a bigger problem.

My lady was peer-pressured into getting vaccinated by her work, she got the J&J, collapsed in the bathroom two days later with total inability to stand up, thankfully recovered, now a month later she reads in the news that the JJ vaccine only offers 33% protection against the Indian variant.

A co-worker at my workplace collapsed and was briefly hospitalised before being sent on sick leave with platelet issues shortly after taking the vaccine.

All of this for vaccines that do not seem to offer lasting protection against infection or new variants, as we already predicted at the beginning of the vaccination cycle.

We also predicted vaccine hesitance making herd immunity unreachable, against what the experts were saying.

I’m surprised to see that the people who were wrong are still getting an audience at all.

As we enter into the fall, we may see another cycle of serious and plenty of breakthrough illness and I predict that the pro-vaccine crowd will face reality, politicians will quietly and slowly downgrade the vaccines to a secundary preventive tool, ending the vaccine saga and the time wasted by this experiment.

I think that it’s too late for eradication using barrier methods, people are showing utter lack of discipline, hygiene and responsibility, so I think that all we can do is to wait for the virus to mutate into an irreversibly attenuated variant.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:16 pm

casinterest wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
casinterest wrote:
This isn't a CDC issue, and i wish folks would quit passing on that fake news.,


I have my state Governor's press release and School District's e-mail quoting CDC for no-mask rule. Are you saying those are fake news?

Most officials blindly follow the easiest excuse, it is an old Soviet model but works well in modern day capitalist societies. Only a few like LA County Health department do the right thing.

It is CDC's unscientific incompetent decision trickled down and used as an excuse. CDC is the root cause of the problem.

"Use masks if you are in high-risk area", how dumb is this guidance.

No one considers themselves, their family, their sub-diviion/zipcode/city/county/state as high-risk area. That is the human psychology. It is always others fault.

Is there an app or COVIDAR to show you are entering high-risk area?
How many people know the link to check their zip code or the zip code they are in?


Post your link, and let's see if you Governor has updated their guidance to fall into the new CDC guidance which recommends mask wearing in schools.
Do not blame the CDC for the weak leaders you have chosen.


I don't see merit in that argument.

On 7/21 there were only 6 Michigan counties above moderate level of transmission. Today there are 33 counties at or over substantial level of transmission.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

What Governor supposed to do? Shutdown the county as soon as transmission level changes?

In our county is 70.2% +16 are vaccinated, 68.7% +12 are vaccinated, 84.9% 65+ are vaccinated.
In our city is over 80% vaccinated, some zip codes over 90% vaccinated.
So you can shelve anti-vaxxer theories and arguments for now.

Keeping the CDC cheer-leading attitude school district send out this back to school communication a month ahead.

Masks will be optional for all staff and students inside our schools. We understand that this is an important decision for each family. The County Health Department recommends that all unvaccinated people continue to wear masks. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the CDC also recommend that all staff and students wear masks, but we are mindful that they are taking into account the entire country—including states with very low vaccination rates and those with surges or large number of cases of the Delta variant. As we mentioned above, County has hit the 70% mark, with the district seeing even higher vaccination rates. In addition, the Delta variant, while present here in Michigan, is not the prominent coronavirus variant here—and our case numbers and community spread are very low. We encourage families to read all recommendations, do your research and make the decision that works best for your students. If summer school is any indication, we expect a mix of choices in the fall (we had about 1/4 to 1/3 of students in summer school choose to wear masks.)

Masks are still required on school buses due to a federal order that has not been lifted: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ation.html

Daily Health Checks: Consistent with our summer programming, parents/students will no longer be required to submit daily health assessments online. However, we do ask that parents/students monitor their health closely and do not come to school with any Covid-related symptoms.

Testing: The district has no plans to administer COVID testing to students or staff.

Vaccinations: The district encourages families to explore vaccination opportunities for all eligible students, but vaccinations will not be required, nor do we plan to ask the vaccination status of any student or staff members (note: if a student/staff member wishes to avoid quarantining due to exposure, you may be required to show proof of vaccination.)

June 24 Mask mandate change & NEW summer school/preschool guidance, summer school, not many care
The State of Michigan today announced that masks are recommended but no longer required in schools, both for vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Therefore, beginning tomorrow, June 25, mask will be optional in our summer school physical education classes, preschool and all other programming. This applies to both staff and students.

This decision is consistent with our practice during the 2020-21 school year, where we have implemented all state requirements as mandated, and evaluated recommendations based on feasibility, benefit, necessity, practicality and whether there is an alternate mitigation effort available in our schools. In this case, the decision to make masks optional is based on a number of factors, including but not limited to the county vaccination data, the estimated number of staff fully vaccinated, the widespread availability of the vaccine for ages 12 & up as well as the low rate of community spread and sharp decline in the number of cases in our area.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13836
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:31 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
casinterest wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

I have my state Governor's press release and School District's e-mail quoting CDC for no-mask rule. Are you saying those are fake news?

Most officials blindly follow the easiest excuse, it is an old Soviet model but works well in modern day capitalist societies. Only a few like LA County Health department do the right thing.

It is CDC's unscientific incompetent decision trickled down and used as an excuse. CDC is the root cause of the problem.

"Use masks if you are in high-risk area", how dumb is this guidance.

No one considers themselves, their family, their sub-diviion/zipcode/city/county/state as high-risk area. That is the human psychology. It is always others fault.

Is there an app or COVIDAR to show you are entering high-risk area?
How many people know the link to check their zip code or the zip code they are in?


Post your link, and let's see if you Governor has updated their guidance to fall into the new CDC guidance which recommends mask wearing in schools.
Do not blame the CDC for the weak leaders you have chosen.


I don't see merit in that argument.

On 7/21 there were only 6 Michigan counties above moderate level of transmission. Today there are 33 counties at or over substantial level of transmission.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

What Governor supposed to do? Shutdown the county as soon as transmission level changes?

In our county is 70.2% +16 are vaccinated, 68.7% +12 are vaccinated, 84.9% 65+ are vaccinated.
In our city is over 80% vaccinated, some zip codes over 90% vaccinated.
So you can shelve anti-vaxxer theories and arguments for now.

Keeping the CDC cheer-leading attitude school district send out this back to school communication a month ahead.

Masks will be optional for all staff and students inside our schools. We understand that this is an important decision for each family. The County Health Department recommends that all unvaccinated people continue to wear masks. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the CDC also recommend that all staff and students wear masks, but we are mindful that they are taking into account the entire country—including states with very low vaccination rates and those with surges or large number of cases of the Delta variant. As we mentioned above, County has hit the 70% mark, with the district seeing even higher vaccination rates. In addition, the Delta variant, while present here in Michigan, is not the prominent coronavirus variant here—and our case numbers and community spread are very low. We encourage families to read all recommendations, do your research and make the decision that works best for your students. If summer school is any indication, we expect a mix of choices in the fall (we had about 1/4 to 1/3 of students in summer school choose to wear masks.)

Masks are still required on school buses due to a federal order that has not been lifted: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ation.html

Daily Health Checks: Consistent with our summer programming, parents/students will no longer be required to submit daily health assessments online. However, we do ask that parents/students monitor their health closely and do not come to school with any Covid-related symptoms.

Testing: The district has no plans to administer COVID testing to students or staff.

Vaccinations: The district encourages families to explore vaccination opportunities for all eligible students, but vaccinations will not be required, nor do we plan to ask the vaccination status of any student or staff members (note: if a student/staff member wishes to avoid quarantining due to exposure, you may be required to show proof of vaccination.)

June 24 Mask mandate change & NEW summer school/preschool guidance, summer school, not many care
The State of Michigan today announced that masks are recommended but no longer required in schools, both for vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Therefore, beginning tomorrow, June 25, mask will be optional in our summer school physical education classes, preschool and all other programming. This applies to both staff and students.

This decision is consistent with our practice during the 2020-21 school year, where we have implemented all state requirements as mandated, and evaluated recommendations based on feasibility, benefit, necessity, practicality and whether there is an alternate mitigation effort available in our schools. In this case, the decision to make masks optional is based on a number of factors, including but not limited to the county vaccination data, the estimated number of staff fully vaccinated, the widespread availability of the vaccine for ages 12 & up as well as the low rate of community spread and sharp decline in the number of cases in our area.


Your district implemented STATE requirements. Not CDC requirements The article is from June. If you want to blame the CDC, you need to go to your local district , then the state and ask why they aren't following the CDC"s updated guidelines. They have a death wish?

Blaming the CDC for the sluggishness and ineffectiveness of the local leaders is not good policy or good citizenship. Also using outdated information is not good policy. You should demand more of your local officials,
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:45 pm

casinterest wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Post your link, and let's see if you Governor has updated their guidance to fall into the new CDC guidance which recommends mask wearing in schools.
Do not blame the CDC for the weak leaders you have chosen.


I don't see merit in that argument.

On 7/21 there were only 6 Michigan counties above moderate level of transmission. Today there are 33 counties at or over substantial level of transmission.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

What Governor supposed to do? Shutdown the county as soon as transmission level changes?

In our county is 70.2% +16 are vaccinated, 68.7% +12 are vaccinated, 84.9% 65+ are vaccinated.
In our city is over 80% vaccinated, some zip codes over 90% vaccinated.
So you can shelve anti-vaxxer theories and arguments for now.

Keeping the CDC cheer-leading attitude school district send out this back to school communication a month ahead.

Masks will be optional for all staff and students inside our schools. We understand that this is an important decision for each family. The County Health Department recommends that all unvaccinated people continue to wear masks. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the CDC also recommend that all staff and students wear masks, but we are mindful that they are taking into account the entire country—including states with very low vaccination rates and those with surges or large number of cases of the Delta variant. As we mentioned above, County has hit the 70% mark, with the district seeing even higher vaccination rates. In addition, the Delta variant, while present here in Michigan, is not the prominent coronavirus variant here—and our case numbers and community spread are very low. We encourage families to read all recommendations, do your research and make the decision that works best for your students. If summer school is any indication, we expect a mix of choices in the fall (we had about 1/4 to 1/3 of students in summer school choose to wear masks.)

Masks are still required on school buses due to a federal order that has not been lifted: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ation.html

Daily Health Checks: Consistent with our summer programming, parents/students will no longer be required to submit daily health assessments online. However, we do ask that parents/students monitor their health closely and do not come to school with any Covid-related symptoms.

Testing: The district has no plans to administer COVID testing to students or staff.

Vaccinations: The district encourages families to explore vaccination opportunities for all eligible students, but vaccinations will not be required, nor do we plan to ask the vaccination status of any student or staff members (note: if a student/staff member wishes to avoid quarantining due to exposure, you may be required to show proof of vaccination.)

June 24 Mask mandate change & NEW summer school/preschool guidance, summer school, not many care
The State of Michigan today announced that masks are recommended but no longer required in schools, both for vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Therefore, beginning tomorrow, June 25, mask will be optional in our summer school physical education classes, preschool and all other programming. This applies to both staff and students.

This decision is consistent with our practice during the 2020-21 school year, where we have implemented all state requirements as mandated, and evaluated recommendations based on feasibility, benefit, necessity, practicality and whether there is an alternate mitigation effort available in our schools. In this case, the decision to make masks optional is based on a number of factors, including but not limited to the county vaccination data, the estimated number of staff fully vaccinated, the widespread availability of the vaccine for ages 12 & up as well as the low rate of community spread and sharp decline in the number of cases in our area.


Your district implemented STATE requirements. Not CDC requirements The article is from June. If you want to blame the CDC, you need to go to your local district , then the state and ask why they aren't following the CDC"s updated guidelines. They have a death wish?

Blaming the CDC for the sluggishness and ineffectiveness of the local leaders is not good policy or good citizenship. Also using outdated information is not good policy. You should demand more of your local officials,


And whose guidance State of Michigan is following

"The safe and effective COVID-19 vaccine and all the hard work that Michiganders have done allows us to take a big step in returning to normal," said MDHHS Director Elizabeth Hertel. "This updated order keeps Michigan in alignment with CDC guidance that is based on the knowledge of health experts. I urge our residents to continue to be respectful of each other as we move forward."

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html

We are not Florida with anti-mask mandates or Missouri with low vaccinations, still very easy to get screwed over by strictly following CDC.

Like lightsaber said upthread, how many times CDC changed mask guidance? At every CDC somersault, TV pundits come out with an excuse.

Myself and waterbomber2 have been saying since the beginning of this pandemic, don't trust CDC, TV pundits and some HCWs, just wear masks.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13836
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:50 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
casinterest wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

I don't see merit in that argument.

On 7/21 there were only 6 Michigan counties above moderate level of transmission. Today there are 33 counties at or over substantial level of transmission.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

What Governor supposed to do? Shutdown the county as soon as transmission level changes?

In our county is 70.2% +16 are vaccinated, 68.7% +12 are vaccinated, 84.9% 65+ are vaccinated.
In our city is over 80% vaccinated, some zip codes over 90% vaccinated.
So you can shelve anti-vaxxer theories and arguments for now.

Keeping the CDC cheer-leading attitude school district send out this back to school communication a month ahead.

Masks will be optional for all staff and students inside our schools. We understand that this is an important decision for each family. The County Health Department recommends that all unvaccinated people continue to wear masks. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the CDC also recommend that all staff and students wear masks, but we are mindful that they are taking into account the entire country—including states with very low vaccination rates and those with surges or large number of cases of the Delta variant. As we mentioned above, County has hit the 70% mark, with the district seeing even higher vaccination rates. In addition, the Delta variant, while present here in Michigan, is not the prominent coronavirus variant here—and our case numbers and community spread are very low. We encourage families to read all recommendations, do your research and make the decision that works best for your students. If summer school is any indication, we expect a mix of choices in the fall (we had about 1/4 to 1/3 of students in summer school choose to wear masks.)

Masks are still required on school buses due to a federal order that has not been lifted: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... ation.html

Daily Health Checks: Consistent with our summer programming, parents/students will no longer be required to submit daily health assessments online. However, we do ask that parents/students monitor their health closely and do not come to school with any Covid-related symptoms.

Testing: The district has no plans to administer COVID testing to students or staff.

Vaccinations: The district encourages families to explore vaccination opportunities for all eligible students, but vaccinations will not be required, nor do we plan to ask the vaccination status of any student or staff members (note: if a student/staff member wishes to avoid quarantining due to exposure, you may be required to show proof of vaccination.)

June 24 Mask mandate change & NEW summer school/preschool guidance, summer school, not many care


Your district implemented STATE requirements. Not CDC requirements The article is from June. If you want to blame the CDC, you need to go to your local district , then the state and ask why they aren't following the CDC"s updated guidelines. They have a death wish?

Blaming the CDC for the sluggishness and ineffectiveness of the local leaders is not good policy or good citizenship. Also using outdated information is not good policy. You should demand more of your local officials,


And whose guidance State of Michigan is following

"The safe and effective COVID-19 vaccine and all the hard work that Michiganders have done allows us to take a big step in returning to normal," said MDHHS Director Elizabeth Hertel. "This updated order keeps Michigan in alignment with CDC guidance that is based on the knowledge of health experts. I urge our residents to continue to be respectful of each other as we move forward."

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html

We are not Florida with anti-mask mandates or Missouri with low vaccinations, still very easy to get screwed over by strictly following CDC.

Like lightsaber said upthread, how many times CDC changed mask guidance? At every CDC somersault, TV pundits come out with an excuse.

Myself and waterbomber2 have been saying since the beginning of this pandemic, don't trust CDC, TV pundits and some HCWs, just wear masks.


Science and Guidance change with new information and new variants. We have to use masks again because too many folks trust lying pundits on right wing radio over scientists
Not trusting the CDC is just more right wing attacks on intelligence. The CDC has issued new guidance at each step. Just saying, just wear masks does not work for how society will go forward.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Your district implemented STATE requirements. Not CDC requirements The article is from June. If you want to blame the CDC, you need to go to your local district , then the state and ask why they aren't following the CDC"s updated guidelines. They have a death wish?

Blaming the CDC for the sluggishness and ineffectiveness of the local leaders is not good policy or good citizenship. Also using outdated information is not good policy. You should demand more of your local officials,


And whose guidance State of Michigan is following

"The safe and effective COVID-19 vaccine and all the hard work that Michiganders have done allows us to take a big step in returning to normal," said MDHHS Director Elizabeth Hertel. "This updated order keeps Michigan in alignment with CDC guidance that is based on the knowledge of health experts. I urge our residents to continue to be respectful of each other as we move forward."

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html

We are not Florida with anti-mask mandates or Missouri with low vaccinations, still very easy to get screwed over by strictly following CDC.

Like lightsaber said upthread, how many times CDC changed mask guidance? At every CDC somersault, TV pundits come out with an excuse.

Myself and waterbomber2 have been saying since the beginning of this pandemic, don't trust CDC, TV pundits and some HCWs, just wear masks.


Science and Guidance change with new information and new variants. We have to use masks again because too many folks trust lying pundits on right wing radio over scientists
Not trusting the CDC is just more right wing attacks on intelligence. The CDC has issued new guidance at each step. Just saying, just wear masks does not work for how society will go forward.


Science doesn't change every month or every year, not even every decade. Darwin's theory is still valid. Political equations do change.

What you are claiming is wrong diagnosis, which leads to wrong treatment, nothing to do science, lack of application or in this case utter incompetence.
Airborne vs micro-droplets is perfect example. Millions of gallons of Clorox and sanitizers are sitting around American households but there are no N95 masks.

CDC is not the only institute with science background. It is the organization with $11 Billion funding, so many outside scientists around the world generally don't say against it, with the expectation of getting to work on some CDC project.

Now CDC is way off with its science many are speaking against it, probably ruining their chances to work with CDC or get funding.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:42 pm

httos://news.rthk.hk/ch/component/k2/16 ... 210802.htm
As increasing amount of population are required to either take the vaccine or pay for coronavirus test every week, Hong Kong's vaccination rate have been continually climbing with 48% now received first dose.

Hong Kong government renewed inbound traveller quarantine requirement based on vaccine condition
For vaccinated travellers,
Coming from High-risk countries will require 21 days quarantine, and will only be allowed to enter if they are Hong Kong residents
Coming from Medium-risk coountries will require 14 days quarantine, or if antibody test result is positive on arrival, then it can be replaced by 7 days quarantine plus 7 days selg health monitoring
Coming from Low-risk countries, 7 days quarantine will be required

Fot unvaccinated travellers,
They will not be allowed to enter from High risk area
They will only be allowed to enter from Medium risk area if they are Hong Kong residents, and will need to observe 21 days quarantine
They will be required to observe 14 days quarantine if they enter from low risk area.

Additional virus test will be required during and after quarantine period.

All residents with chance of contacting foreigners will be required to vaccinate.
 
Chemist
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:33 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

Like lightsaber said upthread, how many times CDC changed mask guidance? At every CDC somersault, TV pundits come out with an excuse.

Myself and waterbomber2 have been saying since the beginning of this pandemic, don't trust CDC, TV pundits and some HCWs, just wear masks.


First, CDC is a bunch of humans that can make mistakes, just like anybody else. I don't get the hostility - unless there is some other agenda.
Second, science gains information over time, and the new information informs changes of recommendations. Sorry if that is disturbing to you. Delta's story is different from the original story.
Third, CDC lives in a world in the USA that was heavily politicized due to this virus. Scientists who were trying to speak out were muzzled and/or pressured. We can't expect any human organization to not react to these kinds of pressures. Look at what has happened to key scientists at the state levels - two well publicized incidents that I can think of, and I'm sure more we don't know about.

What's wrong is that many are trying to create war with each other over differences of opinions, rather than trying to work and unite together to fight a common adversary. The lack of teamwork is our downfall.

I heard a quote (don't remember where; on some news or audio podcast) over the past few days. In India apparently they've vaccinated about half their population. There apparently is not a significant level of vaccine hostility as in the US. When one Indian person was told that in the USA (with plenty of vaccine supply), a low percent of parents are allowing their 12-18 year old children to be vaccinated, the response of the Indian person was incredulous "Don't parents in the USA love their children?".
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:57 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Complacency from overreliance on the vaccines’ protection may be as big if not a bigger problem.


We can agree on this. However, we have the unvaccinated exceeding the poor performance of the vaccinated.

Kids are kids, we love them for imperfect behavior, so an extra layer of protection is required.

Vaccines allow mistakes to happen. I know too many people with long Covid19. To the point I cannot take vaccine avoiders seriously anymore (I cannot taste fat. e.g., I just turned down one of my prior favorite foods, french fries, as when you cannot taste fat they are icky.

Everyone is misbehaving. My prior posts provided bythe link on 97% of the hospitalized being unvacinated.
How many weeks until hospitalizations are at a crisis level? We are at the doubling every week point. I've stated my opinion that medical staff, in particular nurses, won't volunteer for the previous crazy hours. Hospitalizations lag new cases by two weeks. Look at how much cases have grown in the last two weeks. Then look at the trend in hospitalizations.

235 (cases per million)/95 cases per million * 42,000 in US hospitals=103,000+ if simple ratio math predicts hospitalizations

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

It is a question of when, not if.

When presented new information, I change my mind. I accept the vaccinated who get this will spread it (but about 62% won't get symptoms vs same quantity unvaccinated). So this latest variant will get everywhere. The unvaccinated will fill the hospitals until they reject patients on triage (points).

Time for jab #3.

How many points for triage for unvaccinated?

Lightsaber
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:01 pm

lightsaber wrote:
How many weeks until hospitalizations are at a crisis level? We are at the doubling every week point. I've stated my opinion that medical staff, in particular nurses, won't volunteer for the previous crazy hours. Hospitalizations lag new cases by two weeks. Look at how much cases have grown in the last two weeks. Then look at the trend in hospitalizations.


https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2021/07/ ... -icu-beds/

We are there already in Arkansas

This was from Wednesday.

Currently, there are only 39 open ICU beds across the state out of a total of 1,172 total ICU beds.

....


The Delta variant of COVID-19 continues to spread rapidly with a 63 percent increase in daily COVID cases reported in Arkansas over the past week. It’s the third highest increase in the country.

“This would not be a problem if we did not have the number of COVID cases that we have and as is turns out, the population of COVID positive patients today are a lot sicker than they were earlier in the pandemic,” said Seupaul.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:23 pm

casinterest wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
How many weeks until hospitalizations are at a crisis level? We are at the doubling every week point. I've stated my opinion that medical staff, in particular nurses, won't volunteer for the previous crazy hours. Hospitalizations lag new cases by two weeks. Look at how much cases have grown in the last two weeks. Then look at the trend in hospitalizations.


https://www.wmcactionnews5.com/2021/07/ ... -icu-beds/

We are there already in Arkansas

This was from Wednesday.

Currently, there are only 39 open ICU beds across the state out of a total of 1,172 total ICU beds.

....


The Delta variant of COVID-19 continues to spread rapidly with a 63 percent increase in daily COVID cases reported in Arkansas over the past week. It’s the third highest increase in the country.

“This would not be a problem if we did not have the number of COVID cases that we have and as is turns out, the population of COVID positive patients today are a lot sicker than they were earlier in the pandemic,” said Seupaul.

And we were there in Mesa County Colorado a while ago (but not now). I'm talking enough areas where triage must happen that it becomes scary.

It is scary they are sicker when the elderly are well vaccinated.

In two weeks, I expect severe concern. It is already too late to avoid that. Even people I know who were really well behaved cannot behave anymore. They need more social contact. Heck, I really miss dancing and there are only so many times beautiful women invite you to dance...

Lightsaber
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:39 pm

Chemist wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Like lightsaber said upthread, how many times CDC changed mask guidance? At every CDC somersault, TV pundits come out with an excuse.

Myself and waterbomber2 have been saying since the beginning of this pandemic, don't trust CDC, TV pundits and some HCWs, just wear masks.


First, CDC is a bunch of humans that can make mistakes, just like anybody else. I don't get the hostility - unless there is some other agenda.
Second, science gains information over time, and the new information informs changes of recommendations. Sorry if that is disturbing to you. Delta's story is different from the original story.
Third, CDC lives in a world in the USA that was heavily politicized due to this virus. Scientists who were trying to speak out were muzzled and/or pressured. We can't expect any human organization to not react to these kinds of pressures. Look at what has happened to key scientists at the state levels - two well publicized incidents that I can think of, and I'm sure more we don't know about.

What's wrong is that many are trying to create war with each other over differences of opinions, rather than trying to work and unite together to fight a common adversary. The lack of teamwork is our downfall.

I heard a quote (don't remember where; on some news or audio podcast) over the past few days. In India apparently they've vaccinated about half their population. There apparently is not a significant level of vaccine hostility as in the US. When one Indian person was told that in the USA (with plenty of vaccine supply), a low percent of parents are allowing their 12-18 year old children to be vaccinated, the response of the Indian person was incredulous "Don't parents in the USA love their children?".


Not sure how one can be nice if an entity flip-flops six times on same topic.

In March world witnessed India carnage. Soon after Delta was brewing in UK. Flights from UK/India never stopped completely. In May CDC lifted mask mandate. Based on what science or data so-called scientists lifted mask mandate. BTW, Air India doubling its flights for next two weeks.

Vaccine is an effective selective predator against virus. Masks may be less effective than vaccine but are broad-end blockers. A N95 doesn't care it is wild type, Alpha, Delta, it will filter within its capability. Why is it so difficult for CDC scientists to comprehend this. Why the apprehension against masks?
 
Dieuwer
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:43 pm

Why are we expecting "triage" and "death and destruction" in Arkansas? There was no such thing in the UK, where cases are already dropping each day, and deaths never increased much compared to previous waves.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... cases.html
 
ElPistolero
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:19 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Chemist wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Like lightsaber said upthread, how many times CDC changed mask guidance? At every CDC somersault, TV pundits come out with an excuse.

Myself and waterbomber2 have been saying since the beginning of this pandemic, don't trust CDC, TV pundits and some HCWs, just wear masks.


First, CDC is a bunch of humans that can make mistakes, just like anybody else. I don't get the hostility - unless there is some other agenda.
Second, science gains information over time, and the new information informs changes of recommendations. Sorry if that is disturbing to you. Delta's story is different from the original story.
Third, CDC lives in a world in the USA that was heavily politicized due to this virus. Scientists who were trying to speak out were muzzled and/or pressured. We can't expect any human organization to not react to these kinds of pressures. Look at what has happened to key scientists at the state levels - two well publicized incidents that I can think of, and I'm sure more we don't know about.

What's wrong is that many are trying to create war with each other over differences of opinions, rather than trying to work and unite together to fight a common adversary. The lack of teamwork is our downfall.

I heard a quote (don't remember where; on some news or audio podcast) over the past few days. In India apparently they've vaccinated about half their population. There apparently is not a significant level of vaccine hostility as in the US. When one Indian person was told that in the USA (with plenty of vaccine supply), a low percent of parents are allowing their 12-18 year old children to be vaccinated, the response of the Indian person was incredulous "Don't parents in the USA love their children?".


Not sure how one can be nice if an entity flip-flops six times on same topic.

In March world witnessed India carnage. Soon after Delta was brewing in UK. Flights from UK/India never stopped completely. In May CDC lifted mask mandate. Based on what science or data so-called scientists lifted mask mandate. BTW, Air India doubling its flights for next two weeks.

Vaccine is an effective selective predator against virus. Masks may be less effective than vaccine but are broad-end blockers. A N95 doesn't care it is wild type, Alpha, Delta, it will filter within its capability. Why is it so difficult for CDC scientists to comprehend this. Why the apprehension against masks?


The other poster is right though; the demagoguery against CDC is silly. The CDC need to be able to shift their advice based on the data. If the data starts trending in a certain direction, what should they do? Change their advice? Or self-flagellate for not predicting a virus that’s changed course several times?

Delta is a different virus altogether. If some folk can’t or won’t understand that, or get confused by “but they said this first, then that” and conclude with “why should we believe them?”, then that’s their prerogative, and fault, not the CDC’s for not dumbing down it enough. Individual responsibility” etc.

Look north of the border. The health agency’s messaging was broadly aligned with that in the US or UK. Same flip flops, same missteps. The difference is that everybody largely avoided playing politics with it. The end result; very minor angst about mask mandates, and relatively high vaccine rates. Anybody could have made political hay of the health guidance missteps if they wanted to. They largely didn’t.

Should tell you where the problem is.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:35 am

Germany offering a booster to vulnerable and vaccines for children 12+.


https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/germany- ... 34738.html

casinterest wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Interesting new release

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/31/health/f ... index.html

Highlights.
1. Less than .001% of those that are fully vaccinated have died from Covid. As of July 26. of 163,000,000 vaccinated adults in the US, there have been 1,263 deaths from breakthrough cases.
2. Most of the breakthrough cases -- about 74% -- occurred among adults 65 or older.
3. Experts continue to say that vaccination makes it less likely you'll catch Covid-19 in the first place. But for those who do, the findings suggest they could have a similar tendency to spread it as unvaccinated people.
4. Due to Number 3, the CDC upgraded the guidance to have vaccinated people wear masks indoors to save the unvaccinated folks that are still most at risk.


The unvaccinated take risks. We all take risks to a certain degree.


They do, but the kids under 12 and immunocompromised at this point do not have a choice due to the vaccine not being approved yet. That is my only holdup.

This we can completely agree upon.

I would ad children between 12 and just before 18 should be allowed a vaccine over parental objections.

Lightsaber
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:56 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Why are we expecting "triage" and "death and destruction" in Arkansas? There was no such thing in the UK, where cases are already dropping each day, and deaths never increased much compared to previous waves.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... cases.html

Just 36% of the people in Arkansas are fully vaccinated.

Compare that to 56% in the UK. That tremendously slows the virus. While some will have natural resistance and some vaccinated will spread.

A simplified assumption is looking at those that can transmit and receive.

UK
R= 5* (1-.56)*(1-.56)=.968 That is less than one so enough are vaccinated and social distancing and mask wearing is bringing down Covid19.

Arkansas:
R=5*(1-.36)*(1-.36)=2.048 It will expand and spread quickly.

That bears out in hospitalizations.
UK at 15% of prior peak
US at 34% of prior peak:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations

A 49% USA fully vaccinated vs. 56% is enough. 49% is a problem as
R=5*(1-.49)*(1-.49) is 1.3.

But what matters is the hyper locality.
However, the higher national vaccination rate in the UK should be saving them.

Now for 3rd jabs for healthcare and the vulnerable.
Follow Israel and Germany.

Lightsaber
 
Okie
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:58 am

DocLightning wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
I understand the pharmacy won’t know, but won’t their insurance figure it out when it’s submitted again?


I got mine through work. I'm pretty sure my insurance never had anything to do with it.


Here is a link:
https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/wi ... treatment/

Basically if you have insurance they will be notified. I expect the insurance is charged a fee for injection at no cost to recipient if you have insurance or not.
If you don't have insurance all costs should be covered under your states Medicaid program

They started to give me the 3rd degree and 5 page form when I went for my first injection. I told them I was on Epic they grabbed the forms back looked at my ID, entered a couple items on computer, I signed a form was given the vaccine done in 30 seconds flat waited for 15 minutes while I sat on the group W bench while they handed out coffee, juice or water and biscuits.


Okie
 
Dieuwer
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:08 am

Forget Arkansas. It looks like Louisiana is the rocket ship, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... cases.html
I guess I should be happy to live in New England.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:14 am

Okie wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
I understand the pharmacy won’t know, but won’t their insurance figure it out when it’s submitted again?


I got mine through work. I'm pretty sure my insurance never had anything to do with it.


Here is a link:
https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/wi ... treatment/

Basically if you have insurance they will be notified. I expect the insurance is charged a fee for injection at no cost to recipient if you have insurance or not.
If you don't have insurance all costs should be covered under your states Medicaid program

They started to give me the 3rd degree and 5 page form when I went for my first injection. I told them I was on Epic they grabbed the forms back looked at my ID, entered a couple items on computer, I signed a form was given the vaccine done in 30 seconds flat waited for 15 minutes while I sat on the group W bench while they handed out coffee, juice or water and biscuits.


Okie


I appreciate your reply! However I was asking about insurance in this instance because the previous poster had said they went and received a completely different vaccine as a booster shot despite being fully vaccinated. I’m interested in doing the same, but my concern is they’d ask for my insurance information, and as I’ve already previously received the J&J six months ago, they’d deny it. And since I already had a shot and have insurance, the government won’t cover it.

To be clear, I’m not trying to take away from anyone else’s opportunities here, or scam insurance. I’d be fully willing to pay the vaccination cost, and I’ve been told by pharmacists in my local grocery store vaccine is going to waste. I just wish they’d waste it by sticking it in my arm!!!
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:26 am

ElPistolero wrote:
Delta is a different virus altogether. If some folk can’t or won’t understand that, or get confused by “but they said this first, then that” and conclude with “why should we believe them?”, then that’s their prerogative, and fault, not the CDC’s for not dumbing down it enough. Individual responsibility” etc.

Should tell you where the problem is.


I am not suggesting CDC do anything against public health. Vaccination combined with non-pharma mitigations would have been better according to science. How is that political?

Is Delta really breaking news or every one supposed to pretend surprised along with CDC?

If CDC just bases their guidance on science and data and leave decisions to politicians, sure I agree they cannot be blamed. SAGE and Public Health England are two examples, whatever mistakes UK made that is purely on politicians.

The new CDC is not based on study of data, but based on meta-analysis.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/brie ... lines.html

Walensky replied that the 10 percent number came from a study published in The Journal of Infectious Diseases. The study was “a meta-analysis,” she explained, which means it synthesized data from other studies. “The topline result of all studies that were included in the systematic review said less than 10 percent of cases were transmitted outdoors,” she said.


Other examples
Natural immunity doesn't last long was based on nurses in one Louisiana hospital.
School kids 3-ft separation was based on study of one school in Wisconsin by a medical journal.
No information was provided based on what study May'20 no-mask guidance was based on. Delta is not a surprise.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:53 am

dtw2hyd wrote:

I am not suggesting CDC do anything against public health. Vaccination combined with non-pharma mitigations would have been better according to science. How is that political?

Is Delta really breaking news or every one supposed to pretend surprised along with CDC?

If CDC just bases their guidance on science and data and leave decisions to politicians, sure I agree they cannot be blamed. SAGE and Public Health England are two examples, whatever mistakes UK made that is purely on politicians.


Worth noting that SAGE and PHE (or PHAC) haven’t been consistently undermined by any of the political parties, opposition or otherwise. Nor by UK First Ministers and Provincial Premiers. Whitty, Tam, Valance etc do not attract the same kind of scorn or character assassination as Fauci, despite broadly similar messaging - at the same time.

That this self-evident truth needs to be pointed out reflects the absurdity of this exchange. The public health outcomes in the the 3 countries reflect this reality.

dtw2hyd wrote:
The new CDC is not based on study of data, but based on meta-analysis.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/brie ... lines.html

Walensky replied that the 10 percent number came from a study published in The Journal of Infectious Diseases. The study was “a meta-analysis,” she explained, which means it synthesized data from other studies. “The topline result of all studies that were included in the systematic review said less than 10 percent of cases were transmitted outdoors,” she said.


Other examples
Natural immunity doesn't last long was based on nurses in one Louisiana hospital.
School kids 3-ft separation was based on study of one school in Wisconsin by a medical journal.
No information was provided based on what study May'20 no-mask guidance was based on. Delta is not a surprise.


All health agencies (and governments) rely on meta analysis, especially in federal systems where healthcare is a delegated power. CDC, like PHAC, PHE etc studied international, domestic (state level, province level, municipal studies) and took action. Would you rather they replicate them to re-prove them (with all the time that takes)?

As for the “what study was the May 2020 no-mask guidance based on”, it was based on the scientific consensus at the time. The head of PHAC admitted as much, and noted that the initial reluctance was aimed at protecting PPE supply for healthcare workers.

“ Tam has long maintained that masks should be reserved for the sick among us, and for doctors and nurses working in hospitals, in order to preserve diminishing stockpiles of personal protective equipment.”

“ On Monday, however, Tam said wearing a mask is an added layer of protection that can help prevent pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic people from inadvertently infecting others with COVID-19. She said the policy change comes in response to "emerging information" from the science and medical community.

Tam said new research on patients aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship — as many as 712 people who were aboard the vessel contracted the virus — and a recently published report out of Singapore were behind the policy change.

"We are very rapidly trying to integrate that later science," she said of the new studies that suggest people who have yet to develop symptoms can still have high viral loads that can be transmitted.

She said Canadians shouldn't wear medical-grade masks like the N95, as those supplies have to be reserved for medical professionals.“

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/non-me ... -1.5523321

It’s spelled out quite clearly: PHAC made a decision based on the information it had, then looked at studies from elsewhere (“meta analysis” from a ship and Singapore) and changed course.

Nobody is wringing their hands about it a year later and using it as an excuse to use or not use masks/take or not take vaccines. And that’s reflected in the relatively high vaccination rate. Can’t keep constantly attacking and undermining an institution based on past missteps and then wondering why nobody will listen to it.

The public health guidance is the same the world over. If people don’t want to listen to it or think they know better, that’s their prerogative. And fault. Attacking the CDC isn’t going to change that.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:31 am

For those questioning Delta, we already had a great post graphically showing it is a lot more contagious with a little worse outcome.

The issue is the hospitals! I provided a link in my prior post on a question of when the hospitals are strained in the USA. It has started some places, but it looks like in 2 to 4 weeks.

Please recall:

DIRECTFLT wrote:



In other news, Britain joins the 3rd jab club next month:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/b ... uxbndlbing

Lightsaber
 
Chemist
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:43 am

What's interesting is that here in California, in my county they never asked for my insurance info, so I doubt they paid for anything. So I'm tempted to consider a third jab as I'm getting towards an age that is at higher risk. Or I could go to a different state and get a third jab. Especially if we're throwing vaccines away.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:36 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
Delta is a different virus altogether. If some folk can’t or won’t understand that, or get confused by “but they said this first, then that” and conclude with “why should we believe them?”, then that’s their prerogative, and fault, not the CDC’s for not dumbing down it enough. Individual responsibility” etc.

Should tell you where the problem is.


I am not suggesting CDC do anything against public health. Vaccination combined with non-pharma mitigations would have been better according to science. How is that political?

Is Delta really breaking news or every one supposed to pretend surprised along with CDC?

If CDC just bases their guidance on science and data and leave decisions to politicians, sure I agree they cannot be blamed. SAGE and Public Health England are two examples, whatever mistakes UK made that is purely on politicians.

The new CDC is not based on study of data, but based on meta-analysis.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/26/brie ... lines.html

Walensky replied that the 10 percent number came from a study published in The Journal of Infectious Diseases. The study was “a meta-analysis,” she explained, which means it synthesized data from other studies. “The topline result of all studies that were included in the systematic review said less than 10 percent of cases were transmitted outdoors,” she said.


Other examples
Natural immunity doesn't last long was based on nurses in one Louisiana hospital.
School kids 3-ft separation was based on study of one school in Wisconsin by a medical journal.
No information was provided based on what study May'20 no-mask guidance was based on. Delta is not a surprise.


In my opinion, the CDC’s stance of no-masks was dictated by a desire to reduce vaccine hesitancy which is so significant that it makes the entire vaccination program obsolete. The message was also that vaccinated individuals would no longer need to wear masks, but unvaccinated still should.

I myself have a hard time with vaccinated people but also unvaccinated people at my workplaces as they are now dropping their masks as soon as there are no customers in sight and a conflict ensues every time that I ask them to wear it, as the norm at workplaces is still that masks should be worn if distancing of 1.5 meters is not possible.
I can see where the vaccinated people come from, they think that the vaccine is their mask, but when unvaccinated colleagues and customers walk around the workplace without masks or the mask under their nose, I lose hope in a quick resolution of this crisis.
I am also shocked by the US Republicans messaging of no masks, no vaccines. That is just plain ignorance.

CO2 meters are now being used at my workplaces and it is quite staggering to see how fast the ppm readings treble from 380 to over 1000 when a room fills up.

I think that people who can not be disciplined enough to wear FFP2 masks or do not have access, better get vaccinated asap, for their own safety.
So I think that this is how we should interpret the CDC’s flip-flopping.

As for the UK’s plateau in new infections, I can explain it. Many Britons are on holidays, schools are closed, it’s summer, some rainy days have kept Britons home and the spike in cases has had many decide to shelter. Not sure also how many people are getting testes. A combination of those things together with some effects of the vaccines are probably what are keeping the UK from surging past the current high plateau of cases.
But summer is going to end, politicians are stubbornly going to reopen schools and I predict another winter of lockdowns and restrictions.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:32 am

ElPistolero wrote:
All health agencies (and governments) rely on meta analysis, especially in federal systems where healthcare is a delegated power. CDC, like PHAC, PHE etc studied international, domestic (state level, province level, municipal studies) and took action. Would you rather they replicate them to re-prove them (with all the time that takes)?

Many health agencies don't have $11B annual budget, it is acceptable for them to depend on WHO or other health agencies or meta-analysis. For CDC to depend on one journal study is a pity.

We are one of the lowest in sequencing per GDP. last year CDC got $110 Million to do more sequencing, still nothing. Doesn't track breakthroughs unless self-reported or death.

ElPistolero wrote:
As for the “what study was the May 2020 no-mask guidance based on”, it was based on the scientific consensus at the time. The head of PHAC admitted as much, and noted that the initial reluctance was aimed at protecting PPE supply for healthcare workers.

That was a typo, I meant May 2021.
 
art
Posts: 4172
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:25 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Why are we expecting "triage" and "death and destruction" in Arkansas? There was no such thing in the UK, where cases are already dropping each day, and deaths never increased much compared to previous waves.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... cases.html


Cases are dropping in UK but from a 3.3K 7 day average on June 1 they rose to a peak of 46.9K on July 21. Now down to 26.9K.

So in 7 weeks there was a near 1500% increase in UK daily case levels. I dread to think what Delta will do in parts of the world with low vaccination levels.

Case numbers raw data source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
 
N1120A
Posts: 26795
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:35 pm

Chemist wrote:
What's interesting is that here in California, in my county they never asked for my insurance info, so I doubt they paid for anything. So I'm tempted to consider a third jab as I'm getting towards an age that is at higher risk. Or I could go to a different state and get a third jab. Especially if we're throwing vaccines away.


I had the insurance info greyed out, because I received my shots as an Angel Flight command pilot and was classified as a health care worker at a supersite. The pharmacies ask about insurance and they are paid $20 per shot, which the feds reimburse insurance for. If you got it at a supersite, it is likely that the money was coming directly from the government and there was no need for insurance info.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:45 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
In my opinion, the CDC’s stance of no-masks was dictated by a desire to reduce vaccine hesitancy which is so significant that it makes the entire vaccination program obsolete. The message was also that vaccinated individuals would no longer need to wear masks, but unvaccinated still should.

I myself have a hard time with vaccinated people but also unvaccinated people at my workplaces as they are now dropping their masks as soon as there are no customers in sight and a conflict ensues every time that I ask them to wear it, as the norm at workplaces is still that masks should be worn if distancing of 1.5 meters is not possible.


I don't blindly trust CDC, Big Pharma or HCWs, but I believe in science and the concept of vaccine benefits outweigh risks, so I got the vaccine. I never believed in long lasting synthetic immunity PR publicity, so I wanted to it to last until December 2021/January 2022 wave. I strictly wear mask indoors or crowded outdoors. I hope my calculations pan out.

CDC made vaccination a license to spread. Even well educated people are brainwashed into believing they won't got infected, even if they do they won't die, and they won't spread. Even if they spread it is only unvaccinated going to die. They fail to notice there are unvaccinated under 12.

Hesitancy is a problem but I believe there are better ways to deal with the issue than turning Americans against Americans.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:50 pm

art wrote:
So in 7 weeks there was a near 1500% increase in UK daily case levels. I dread to think what Delta will do in parts of the world with low vaccination levels.

Case numbers raw data source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

India showed us what happens when it runs rampant without vaccines. I doubt the real death rate or even the excess deaths will ever be known.

By my estimations (my prior post), the UK just barely had enough vaccinations just in time to turn back Delta. Even a little less would have been much worse.

Well vaccinated areas seem to have a sharp spike and then a drop:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... LD~ESP~GRC

Having just a bit over half the population vaccinated seems to be adequate, but half the population doesn't seem to be enough.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... RA~ESP~GRC

Lightsaber
 
CRJ200flyer
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:08 pm

N1120A wrote:
Chemist wrote:
What's interesting is that here in California, in my county they never asked for my insurance info, so I doubt they paid for anything. So I'm tempted to consider a third jab as I'm getting towards an age that is at higher risk. Or I could go to a different state and get a third jab. Especially if we're throwing vaccines away.


I had the insurance info greyed out, because I received my shots as an Angel Flight command pilot and was classified as a health care worker at a supersite. The pharmacies ask about insurance and they are paid $20 per shot, which the feds reimburse insurance for. If you got it at a supersite, it is likely that the money was coming directly from the government and there was no need for insurance info.


If there’s any doubt, it’s easy to check - just go to your health care providers website or app. My providers app shows the billing record for my vaccine - the shot and the service for administering the shot.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:37 pm

USA has exported 110 million doses of vaccine. Errr ... That is nothing in the big picture. I really expected to find out it was a much larger number.

https://omaha.com/news/national/the-lat ... 4.amp.html
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:10 pm

Update on US stats.
99.5% of deaths are the unvaccinated or partially vaccinated (surprisingly low as so many cannot develop an immunity).

97% of hospitalized are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.

While there are lots of breakthrough infections among the vaccinated, they are not stressing the medical system.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/bre ... ed-at-risk

We are at 43,000+ in the hospital due to coronavirus
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations

I feel for the exhausted medical staff.

Lightsaber
 
N1120A
Posts: 26795
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:31 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
N1120A wrote:
Chemist wrote:
What's interesting is that here in California, in my county they never asked for my insurance info, so I doubt they paid for anything. So I'm tempted to consider a third jab as I'm getting towards an age that is at higher risk. Or I could go to a different state and get a third jab. Especially if we're throwing vaccines away.


I had the insurance info greyed out, because I received my shots as an Angel Flight command pilot and was classified as a health care worker at a supersite. The pharmacies ask about insurance and they are paid $20 per shot, which the feds reimburse insurance for. If you got it at a supersite, it is likely that the money was coming directly from the government and there was no need for insurance info.


If there’s any doubt, it’s easy to check - just go to your health care providers website or app. My providers app shows the billing record for my vaccine - the shot and the service for administering the shot.


Yup. The friends I had who did pharmacy shots had the same.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:11 am

Just imagine that people were able to test for a Spanish Flu infection in the 20's, but there was no treatment. "Cases" would suddenly be a major thing, not "deaths". Additionally, no vaccines would be available until the early 40's That means that for over 20 years, the media and politicians would fret about cases, with "waves of cases" at least twice a year, so 2 x 20 = 40 waves in total. Just imagine: FOURTY LOCKDOWNS!
No Roaring Twenties, No Great Depression, No Roosevelt, No Word War II. ONLY PERPERTUAL LOCKDOWNS! (At least Germany would have been in lockdown for most of the time too, lucky us).

It just shows you that the obsession with "cases" is completely preposterous and utterly indefensible over the long run.
 
Chemist
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:31 am

N1120A wrote:
Chemist wrote:
What's interesting is that here in California, in my county they never asked for my insurance info, so I doubt they paid for anything. So I'm tempted to consider a third jab as I'm getting towards an age that is at higher risk. Or I could go to a different state and get a third jab. Especially if we're throwing vaccines away.


I had the insurance info greyed out, because I received my shots as an Angel Flight command pilot and was classified as a health care worker at a supersite. The pharmacies ask about insurance and they are paid $20 per shot, which the feds reimburse insurance for. If you got it at a supersite, it is likely that the money was coming directly from the government and there was no need for insurance info.


Thanks for that info, that's probably it. I got both injections at a county major vaxx site in March/April. Which is now closed.
 
Chemist
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:38 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
In my opinion, the CDC’s stance of no-masks was dictated by a desire to reduce vaccine hesitancy which is so significant that it makes the entire vaccination program obsolete. The message was also that vaccinated individuals would no longer need to wear masks, but unvaccinated still should.

I myself have a hard time with vaccinated people but also unvaccinated people at my workplaces as they are now dropping their masks as soon as there are no customers in sight and a conflict ensues every time that I ask them to wear it, as the norm at workplaces is still that masks should be worn if distancing of 1.5 meters is not possible.


I don't blindly trust CDC, Big Pharma or HCWs, but I believe in science and the concept of vaccine benefits outweigh risks, so I got the vaccine. I never believed in long lasting synthetic immunity PR publicity, so I wanted to it to last until December 2021/January 2022 wave. I strictly wear mask indoors or crowded outdoors. I hope my calculations pan out.

CDC made vaccination a license to spread. Even well educated people are brainwashed into believing they won't got infected, even if they do they won't die, and they won't spread. Even if they spread it is only unvaccinated going to die. They fail to notice there are unvaccinated under 12.

Hesitancy is a problem but I believe there are better ways to deal with the issue than turning Americans against Americans.


The reality is that there was so much politicized hype and "news" sites with political agendas throwing around "you're not going to make us wear masks" and "we need to reopen the country" and "we need our freedom", that IMHO the CDC tried hard to find rationale to remove mask recommendations/mandates as early as possible, with poor results. As I posted earlier, they're humans too, and the political situation does affect them. I can't blame them for trying to thread a fine needle.

My belief is that the mask and other restrictions should only have been relaxed as a scheduled percentage of county vaccination targets. Something like:
    Below 50% county vaccination rate, full masking, gyms closed, restaurants no indoor dining, etc.
    Between 51-55% vaccination, restaurants can be open with 25% dining indoors.
    Between 56% and 60% vaccination, indoor gyms open at 25% capacity, masks still mandated
    Between 61% and 65% vaccination, restaurants and gyms at 50% capacity
Etc.

This would have created incentive for individuals to vaccinate. The counties with low rates would have more restrictions, and the higher vaccinated areas would get progressively less restrictions.
Of course states are ultimately in control so might not have worked well. But the alternative - saying that the vaccinated don't need to wear masks, and expecting the non-vaccinated to wear masks (with no verification system from the very people who don't care very much anyway) was a big mistake.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 5893
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:42 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Just imagine that people were able to test for a Spanish Flu infection in the 20's, but there was no treatment. "Cases" would suddenly be a major thing, not "deaths". Additionally, no vaccines would be available until the early 40's That means that for over 20 years, the media and politicians would fret about cases, with "waves of cases" at least twice a year, so 2 x 20 = 40 waves in total. Just imagine: FOURTY LOCKDOWNS!
No Roaring Twenties, No Great Depression, No Roosevelt, No Word War II. ONLY PERPERTUAL LOCKDOWNS! (At least Germany would have been in lockdown for most of the time too, lucky us).

It just shows you that the obsession with "cases" is completely preposterous and utterly indefensible over the long run.


Even without vaccines, collective immunity would slowly build up until the virus was mostly benign, which is probably what happened with the Spanish flu over time.

Your point is very valid though. Vaccines greatly accelerate this immunity until the factor of proportinality between cases and hospitalizations/deaths decreases to tolerable levels.

In effect the waves currently happening in countries with high vaccination rates are clearly demonstrating this. The UK has passed its Delta peak and the death toll is at least 20 times lower than during the last wave (before vaccination) even though case numbers were similar. France and Spain are currently passing their peaks with similar figures. The US is going up the slope now and I expect a much lower hospitalization/case ratio as well, although it trails Europe a bit in terms of vaccination.

The paranoid frenzy, however, has remained unchanged every time there is a new wave...
Whether this is due to the fact that the collective fear and trauma surrounding the virus hasn't subsided yet or whether many parties still have a vested interest in stirring up that neurosis, I'm not sure. Probably a combination of both.

The most delusion has to be coming from Asia, where the zero-covid policies - despite attracting praise initially - are now proving that they only delay the inevitable rather than prevent it, especially since they seem to have been implemented at the expense of fast vaccination campaigns and have lulled populations there into a false sense of security.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 10343
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:38 am

And the lambda variant has the possibility to make all vaccines moot.

https://weather.com/en-IN/india/coronav ... antibodies
 
N1120A
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:48 am

I honestly think part of the CDC's motive behind relieving the mask guidance was driven by a desire to inoculate the antivaxxers one way or another.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:27 am

Chemist wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
In my opinion, the CDC’s stance of no-masks was dictated by a desire to reduce vaccine hesitancy which is so significant that it makes the entire vaccination program obsolete. The message was also that vaccinated individuals would no longer need to wear masks, but unvaccinated still should.

I myself have a hard time with vaccinated people but also unvaccinated people at my workplaces as they are now dropping their masks as soon as there are no customers in sight and a conflict ensues every time that I ask them to wear it, as the norm at workplaces is still that masks should be worn if distancing of 1.5 meters is not possible.


I don't blindly trust CDC, Big Pharma or HCWs, but I believe in science and the concept of vaccine benefits outweigh risks, so I got the vaccine. I never believed in long lasting synthetic immunity PR publicity, so I wanted to it to last until December 2021/January 2022 wave. I strictly wear mask indoors or crowded outdoors. I hope my calculations pan out.

CDC made vaccination a license to spread. Even well educated people are brainwashed into believing they won't got infected, even if they do they won't die, and they won't spread. Even if they spread it is only unvaccinated going to die. They fail to notice there are unvaccinated under 12.

Hesitancy is a problem but I believe there are better ways to deal with the issue than turning Americans against Americans.


The reality is that there was so much politicized hype and "news" sites with political agendas throwing around "you're not going to make us wear masks" and "we need to reopen the country" and "we need our freedom", that IMHO the CDC tried hard to find rationale to remove mask recommendations/mandates as early as possible, with poor results. As I posted earlier, they're humans too, and the political situation does affect them. I can't blame them for trying to thread a fine needle.

My belief is that the mask and other restrictions should only have been relaxed as a scheduled percentage of county vaccination targets. Something like:
    Below 50% county vaccination rate, full masking, gyms closed, restaurants no indoor dining, etc.
    Between 51-55% vaccination, restaurants can be open with 25% dining indoors.
    Between 56% and 60% vaccination, indoor gyms open at 25% capacity, masks still mandated
    Between 61% and 65% vaccination, restaurants and gyms at 50% capacity
Etc.

This would have created incentive for individuals to vaccinate. The counties with low rates would have more restrictions, and the higher vaccinated areas would get progressively less restrictions.
Of course states are ultimately in control so might not have worked well. But the alternative - saying that the vaccinated don't need to wear masks, and expecting the non-vaccinated to wear masks (with no verification system from the very people who don't care very much anyway) was a big mistake.


With great difficulty country overcome initial mask-hesitancy. There will always be loud mouths complaining. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

We are not a society bound by borders. My county is over 70% vaccinated. It was at minimal risk few days back. There are 8 counties in one hour drive and many commute for work. There is no way to deny an non-resident if restaurant or gym is open. Now county is at substantial risk.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:47 am

seahawk wrote:
And the lambda variant has the possibility to make all vaccines moot.

https://weather.com/en-IN/india/coronav ... antibodies

First, the weather channel has been panicky click bait for a long time.

That is one lab test. It is of concern. It probably means 3rd jab required. For jabs also produce T-cells and from what I've read, the later jabs do a better job generating T-cells. Vaccines do more than one approach.

I'm betting the killed virus vaccines are pretty much worthless against Lambda then...

Lightsaber
 
T4thH
Posts: 1260
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: COVID-19 Vaccine News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:56 pm

lightsaber wrote:
seahawk wrote:
And the lambda variant has the possibility to make all vaccines moot.

https://weather.com/en-IN/india/coronav ... antibodies

First, the weather channel has been panicky click bait for a long time.

That is one lab test. It is of concern. It probably means 3rd jab required. For jabs also produce T-cells and from what I've read, the later jabs do a better job generating T-cells. Vaccines do more than one approach.

I'm betting the killed virus vaccines are pretty much worthless against Lambda then...

Lightsaber

Please note, the lambda variant is "old", it is long time known and has already spread through the world "long" time ago. It was one of the first variants, known.

As said, it is old, but still (with exception of Latin America (from where the L for Lambda comes)) not widespread, it is not really vital in comparison to the alpha and delta variants. If the Lambda variant would be able to escape the vaccination, it would already be the global main variant. IT IS NOT!
So no, we are not doomed and we will not morph into Zombies in the next 5 min.







It will need 6 min. :bomb:

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