Aesma wrote:

I have been given the Moderna 5G 1.0 jab, no ill effect after a couple of hours.

Aesma wrote:

In the US they're neck and neck but in Europe Moderna is still pretty rare.

DocLightning wrote:

Aesma wrote:

In the US they're neck and neck but in Europe Moderna is still pretty rare.

I was a little surprised you got Moderna. In the US it looks to be about 47% Moderna and 53% Pfizer between the two RNA vaccines. Only 4.5M doses of J&J have been given. (reference)

But I had heard that Moderna is primarily being used in the USA at this point, although I have heard of a few Europeans getting it now.

DocLightning wrote:

Aesma wrote:

In the US they're neck and neck but in Europe Moderna is still pretty rare.

I was a little surprised you got Moderna. In the US it looks to be about 47% Moderna and 53% Pfizer between the two RNA vaccines. Only 4.5M doses of J&J have been given. (reference)

But I had heard that Moderna is primarily being used in the USA at this point, although I have heard of a few Europeans getting it now.

BaconButty wrote:

The potential fly in the ointment is the under 30's being offered an alternative to AZ. We may have got lucky in that respect. With leaving large gaps between doses, a bit of a wave pattern has emerged, with AZ and Pfizer slightly out of phase. So in March and April, hardly any first doses of Pfizer were (or will be) done - they're using almost all of it for second doses. The good news is, that in June and July, almost all the Pfizer will go to first doses. AZ on the other hand, will be blasting out second doses in June for the big numbers who got their first jab in March. Add in Moderna (mostly first doses), plus any Novavax (first deliveries May) and Janssen (first deliveries July) and the youngsters should be well covered. I can see why Van Tam was quite sanguine about it.

The interesting corollary is that the unpleasantness with our neighbours may not have had a massive impact on the rollout, since the pacing item would have been non-AZ vaccines for the under 30's..

An example from the most recent yellow card report of the "out of phase" rollout:

This safety update report is based on detailed analysis of data up to 28 March 2021. At this date, an estimated 10.9 million first doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine and 19.5 million doses of the Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine had been administered, and around 3.7 million second doses, mostly the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, had been administered. This represents an increase of 5.3 million on the previous week, predominately Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine.

BaconButty wrote:

I don't think it will arrive in time to play a significant part in our vaccine program, as, unlike Moderna and Pfizer they don't have ongoing trials in Children (?) assuming they are next on the list. Bit of an ethical minefield that, but for Kids with conditions like Cystic Fibrosis it will be a godsend. I'm sure you'll be looking at the same in the States pretty soon.

PPVRA wrote:

Sinovac may be 73.4% effective against transmission 5 weeks after second dose. This, per a study conducted at a Brazilian university hospital that had 20,000 workers vaccinated.

Link in Portuguese only:

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/saude/2021 ... nais-do-hc

Article has a positive tone because they call it a “real life” study and not a carefully orchestrated clinical trial. The original 50.7% effectiveness was measured 2 weeks after second dose.

I don’t know how much weight to put on this. But sounds good!

BaconButty wrote:

cledaybuck wrote:

BaconButty wrote:

I don't think it will arrive in time to play a significant part in our vaccine program, as, unlike Moderna and Pfizer they don't have ongoing trials in Children (?) assuming they are next on the list. Bit of an ethical minefield that, but for Kids with conditions like Cystic Fibrosis it will be a godsend. I'm sure you'll be looking at the same in the States pretty soon.

Pfizer asked the FDA for permission to add 12-15 year olds to the EUA just last week.

That's fantastic. I realised they were doing trials, missed that they were this far down the line. It's so easy to get caught up in the big picture of vaccination rates, and infection rates, but I've heard some heartbreaking stories about kids with serious, often life limiting illnesses that a Covid infection may well kill them. Life shielding for the last year or so has been torture, for them and their families. Hopefully some relief on its way soon.

BaconButty wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

I'm actually confused how well the UK is doing with the relatively low vaccination they have. With, roughly, two thirds being AZ, that implies a very effective vaccine in slowing transmissions of this virus. I believe more AZ would be a bonus (at least to the over-40s) and possibly measures could be taken to reduce the clotting?


https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... on~ISR~CHL

However, they're vaccination rate, even with one dose, isn't high enough to explain their incredibly low case rate:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... pean+Union

The incredibly low new infections is amazing. Where did you get NovaVax first deliveries May for Novavax? I've been trying to find out if they will deliver any in April and I've yet to find a conclusive no. I'm just curious as with case rates going so low, no crisis, but I had hope the UK could get the first in arms a few weeks earlier. I'm also curious on who is supplying the J&J? The dispute with the neighbor has had an impact.

LIghtsaber

As for the low infections - we're still in a lockdown, though it hasn't been observed nearly as strictly at the first. Schools reopened 5 weeks ago, in England at least, with seemingly no effect. Big changes today - Gyms, Hairdressers, beer gardens. We'll see.

Novavax - may comes from the reports at the point of GSK tie up, e.g. here

The finishing will begin at GSK’s facility in Barnard Castle in County Durham from early May.

Can't find chapter and verse, but earlier in the year we were supposed to get first doses in early April - per the Novavax CEO. BUT the UK facility - via fill and finish in Sweden - was only going to start deliveries in June/July, so presumably early doses were going to come from somewhere else - my guess would have been the Serum Institute in India. But they are having issues with raw ingredients, and there's an export ban - so I assume they have accelerated the UK chain in response. I could be wrong, and early doses may still come from India.

Again no link, but I believe the J&J comes from Madrid. I don't think it will arrive in time to play a significant part in our vaccine program, as, unlike Moderna and Pfizer they don't have ongoing trials in Children (?) assuming they are next on the list. Bit of an ethical minefield that, but for Kids with conditions like Cystic Fibrosis it will be a godsend. I'm sure you'll be looking at the same in the States pretty soon.

Deliveries are expected from June.
https://www.theconversation.com/amp/mod ... own-158196

The finishing will begin at GSK’s facility in Barnard Castle in County Durham from early May.

lightsaber wrote:

PPVRA wrote:

Sinovac may be 73.4% effective against transmission 5 weeks after second dose. This, per a study conducted at a Brazilian university hospital that had 20,000 workers vaccinated.

Link in Portuguese only:

https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/saude/2021 ... nais-do-hc

Article has a positive tone because they call it a “real life” study and not a carefully orchestrated clinical trial. The original 50.7% effectiveness was measured 2 weeks after second dose.

I don’t know how much weight to put on this. But sounds good!

Preliminary information is the 2nd dose should be given 2 weeks later with SinoVac:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/br ... NewsSearch

There is a reason effectiveness and effecacy are two different words in the vaccine community. The later is trials, effectiveness is the real world.

If all it takes is spacing out the doses a wee bit more, than that is a solution.

I want as much effective vaccine as possible. Now I am in swarm Pfizer, but that doesn't mean enough will be made.

Anecdotal evidence the J&J shortage is having an impact, the mRNA vaccination sites are seeing fewer missed appointments, starting mid last week, per verbal conversation with a doctor supporting one site and a pharmacist friend at another. Normally locally one can go in up to 3 days early for dose #2, not anymore. Sites are running low as the alternative was taken away.

I'm happy Chile's efforts will pay off, just with more of a time delay.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

I like this graph for vaccine types. It visually shows the relative importance of each vaccine.
Default is the USA:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covi ... nufacturer

USA
This is 80.94 million doses of Moderna
92.36 million doses of Pfizer
5.38 million doses of J&J

evel in over four months on Wednesday, as the coronavirus pandemic continued to ebb in Israel.

According to the Health Ministry, there were 294 serious cases, the first time since early December the figure was below 300.

casinterest wrote:

Interesting notes out of Israel where roughly 55% are fully vaccinated.

The number of cases and percent positive are plummeting.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/serious-c ... -december/

evel in over four months on Wednesday, as the coronavirus pandemic continued to ebb in Israel.

According to the Health Ministry, there were 294 serious cases, the first time since early December the figure was below 300.

This is why we all need to get vaccinated.

cledaybuck wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Interesting notes out of Israel where roughly 55% are fully vaccinated.

The number of cases and percent positive are plummeting.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/serious-c ... -december/

evel in over four months on Wednesday, as the coronavirus pandemic continued to ebb in Israel.

According to the Health Ministry, there were 294 serious cases, the first time since early December the figure was below 300.

This is why we all need to get vaccinated.

Here are hospitalizations in Ohio. Hospitalizations among the elderly(the most vaccinated group) have gone sharply downward.
https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2 ... roups.html

lightsaber wrote:

US calls for pause in J&J vaccine after clot reports:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-ca ... NewsSearch

What is calling for a pause? Either you continue or not.


All the six recipients were women between the ages of 18 and 48. One woman died and a second in Nebraska has been hospitalized in critical condition, the New York Times reported, citing officials.

So the question is, do adrenovacines have a clot issue (is Sputnik V safe?)? The risk is very low. Lower than the risk of letting this disease propagate. However, supply is low, so this is a minimal impact at this time. I will be sad if both J&J and AZ are pulled back as that means over a third of the world's population that would have been vaccinated in 2021 won't be as it takes months (in my opinion 3 or more) to switch a factory from the simpler to make adreno vaccine to something else). Heck, mRNA takes a specialized factory and while exciting, there just ins't enough vaccine without the adrenovacines.

We all have that tin foil hat coworker who will be triggered over the push to mRNA.. I have several coworkers who I warmed up to J&J as the mRNA concerns them (I won't claim to understand why).

This is a problem due to the volumes these vaccines were to achieve.
I will note my sister, much more knowledgeable on vaccines had concerns on adreno virus side effects early, I shall have to ask in more detail as back then it was "1st virus available."

Lightsaber

What is the legal weight of a recommended pause? I assume malpractice insurance would be an issue, so administration of the J&J vaccine effectively must stop.

lightsaber wrote:

cledaybuck wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Interesting notes out of Israel where roughly 55% are fully vaccinated.

The number of cases and percent positive are plummeting.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/serious-c ... -december/



This is why we all need to get vaccinated.

Here are hospitalizations in Ohio. Hospitalizations among the elderly(the most vaccinated group) have gone sharply downward.
https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2 ... roups.html

The best part of that link is it had fraction vaccinated.

The under 20 dropped 36% without much vaccination other than probably their parents.

20 somethings 10% vaccinated, 13.5% drop in hospital cases
30 something's 14% vaccinated, 16% drop
40 something's 17% vaccinated, 36% drop
50 something's 25% vacvinated, 36.6% drop
60 something's 49% vaccinated, 53% drop
70 something's 75% vaccinated, only 66.5% drop
80 something's 75% vacvinated, 75% drop

We are seeing a small herd immunity at the current vaccination levels. The most vulnerable only benefit as vaccinated. I assume as we approach Israeli vaccination levels herd immunity improves dramatically (lucky individuals are not exposed).

The main benefit of vaccines isn't to the individual, it is to their contacts. I posted above how mRNA reduce transmission 90%.

Lightsaber

The officials said the clots “appear to be extremely rare.” They said people who have received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine who develop severe headache, abdominal pain, leg pain or shortness of breath within three weeks after vaccination should contact their doctor.

The rare blood clots, paired with low levels of platelets, were first detected in people in Europe who had received the vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford. European regulators said it was “plausible” that the clots were linked to that vaccination and have also been reviewing four similar clotting cases after vaccination with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which uses a similar technology.

Nearly 7 million doses of Johnson & Johnson’s single-shot vaccine had been administered throughout the country as of Monday, according to CDC data. More than twice that amount, about 16 million doses, have been delivered to states and territories, and through federal channels, since the beginning of March.

casinterest wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

cledaybuck wrote:

Here are hospitalizations in Ohio. Hospitalizations among the elderly(the most vaccinated group) have gone sharply downward.
https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2 ... roups.html

The best part of that link is it had fraction vaccinated.

The under 20 dropped 36% without much vaccination other than probably their parents.

20 somethings 10% vaccinated, 13.5% drop in hospital cases
30 something's 14% vaccinated, 16% drop
40 something's 17% vaccinated, 36% drop
50 something's 25% vacvinated, 36.6% drop
60 something's 49% vaccinated, 53% drop
70 something's 75% vaccinated, only 66.5% drop
80 something's 75% vacvinated, 75% drop

We are seeing a small herd immunity at the current vaccination levels. The most vulnerable only benefit as vaccinated. I assume as we approach Israeli vaccination levels herd immunity improves dramatically (lucky individuals are not exposed).

The main benefit of vaccines isn't to the individual, it is to their contacts. I posted above how mRNA reduce transmission 90%.

Lightsaber

Some of the drop is the natural drop we have seen since January, but the older +60 numbers are showing much steeper drops than the others. It will be interesting to see this in another month.

The below article is linking the AZ and Johnson and Johnson issues.

The officials said the clots “appear to be extremely rare.” They said people who have received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine who develop severe headache, abdominal pain, leg pain or shortness of breath within three weeks after vaccination should contact their doctor.

The rare blood clots, paired with low levels of platelets, were first detected in people in Europe who had received the vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford. European regulators said it was “plausible” that the clots were linked to that vaccination and have also been reviewing four similar clotting cases after vaccination with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which uses a similar technology.

Nearly 7 million doses of Johnson & Johnson’s single-shot vaccine had been administered throughout the country as of Monday, according to CDC data. More than twice that amount, about 16 million doses, have been delivered to states and territories, and through federal channels, since the beginning of March.

So 6, and maybe more people have had severe reactions to the vaccine rollout. This seems to be...assuming there may be 10 times more , still a 1 in 100,000 chance.. I think the J & J is still safe, they just need to isolate some contributing factors to steer those that are susceptible away from it.

lightsaber wrote:

casinterest wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

The best part of that link is it had fraction vaccinated.

The under 20 dropped 36% without much vaccination other than probably their parents.

20 somethings 10% vaccinated, 13.5% drop in hospital cases
30 something's 14% vaccinated, 16% drop
40 something's 17% vaccinated, 36% drop
50 something's 25% vacvinated, 36.6% drop
60 something's 49% vaccinated, 53% drop
70 something's 75% vaccinated, only 66.5% drop
80 something's 75% vacvinated, 75% drop

We are seeing a small herd immunity at the current vaccination levels. The most vulnerable only benefit as vaccinated. I assume as we approach Israeli vaccination levels herd immunity improves dramatically (lucky individuals are not exposed).

The main benefit of vaccines isn't to the individual, it is to their contacts. I posted above how mRNA reduce transmission 90%.

Lightsaber

Some of the drop is the natural drop we have seen since January, but the older +60 numbers are showing much steeper drops than the others. It will be interesting to see this in another month.

The below article is linking the AZ and Johnson and Johnson issues.

The officials said the clots “appear to be extremely rare.” They said people who have received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine who develop severe headache, abdominal pain, leg pain or shortness of breath within three weeks after vaccination should contact their doctor.

The rare blood clots, paired with low levels of platelets, were first detected in people in Europe who had received the vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford. European regulators said it was “plausible” that the clots were linked to that vaccination and have also been reviewing four similar clotting cases after vaccination with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which uses a similar technology.

Nearly 7 million doses of Johnson & Johnson’s single-shot vaccine had been administered throughout the country as of Monday, according to CDC data. More than twice that amount, about 16 million doses, have been delivered to states and territories, and through federal channels, since the beginning of March.

So 6, and maybe more people have had severe reactions to the vaccine rollout. This seems to be...assuming there may be 10 times more , still a 1 in 100,000 chance.. I think the J & J is still safe, they just need to isolate some contributing factors to steer those that are susceptible away from it.

I agree with you. We are messing up risk management by several orders of magnitude.
They do need to look at AZ and J&J risk factors and say, "not for you."
I would bet, oh wait, I don't have to. Known risk factors are obvious:
https://www.healthline.com/health/coron ... od%20clots.
Stay active. A sedentary lifestyle can increase your blood clot risk, so make sure to get regular exercise. If you need to sit for a long time — like with working or traveling — try to take regular breaks so you can get up and move around.
Lose weight if you’re overweight. Shedding excess weight can help lower your risk for developing blood clots.
Don’t smoke. Smoking can damage the lining of your blood vessels and cause clots to form.
Know the side effects of medications. Some types of medications, including birth control pills, hormone replacement therapy, and certain cancer drugs, may increase your risk for blood clots. Work with your doctor to make sure these are properly managed to minimize the risk of blood clots.

So AZ and J&J might just be for not-overweight people, non-smokers, not on the pill, not for cancer and others.

Every doctor advised me to walk 7k steps on the day of a vaccine (some were friends). Coronavirus has known bad blood clot risks.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases ... 041321.php

The findings may help to explain why some people who have recovered from COVID-19 exhibit symptoms of blood clotting complications after their initial recovery. In some cases, they are at increased risk of heart attack, stroke or organ failure when blood clots block major arteries to vital organs.

The team, comprising researchers from NTU, Agency for Science, Technology and Research's (A*STAR) Singapore Immunology Network (SIgN), and the National Centre of Infectious Diseases, Singapore (NCID), collected and analysed blood samples from 30 COVID-19 patients a month after they had recovered from the infection and were discharged from hospital. They found that all recovered COVID-19 patients had signs of blood vessel damage, possibly from a lingering immune response, which may trigger the formation of blood clots.

All Covid19 had blood vessel damage... Rhoo Rhoo.
That implies an agressive vaccination campaign is needed.

Lightsaber

AirbusCheerlead wrote:

If find it really interesting that many not (yet?) willing to take the covid vaccine justify their choice by fear of "corners being cut" in the study and autorisation process and/or stuff being "hiden"...Yet reality shows us the opposite.
Not only are scientists learning more about vaccines than ever (we never have seen such a huge vaccination campaign) but also the process is happening in full public view (In my view certainly helped by EMA's early stands on the issue).

While some might regret this openness because it might make vaccine acceptation by the public a little harder, it is my view that in the long run, it will strengthen trust and result in more people willing to take vaccines.

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas

lightsaber wrote:

Now, I hope to go on a cruise this summer, but I will only buy on a boat with a require of 100% vaccination for every person who steps foot onboard. So it is what activity. I certainly think anything over a thousand people requires 100% vaccination (including kids, I'm looking at you Disney).

But the local pub? ehhh... That limits the right to assemble. I also think it is funny to 6 foot space then fill an aircraft...

casinterest wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

cledaybuck wrote:

Here are hospitalizations in Ohio. Hospitalizations among the elderly(the most vaccinated group) have gone sharply downward.
https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2 ... roups.html

The best part of that link is it had fraction vaccinated.

The under 20 dropped 36% without much vaccination other than probably their parents.

20 somethings 10% vaccinated, 13.5% drop in hospital cases
30 something's 14% vaccinated, 16% drop
40 something's 17% vaccinated, 36% drop
50 something's 25% vacvinated, 36.6% drop
60 something's 49% vaccinated, 53% drop
70 something's 75% vaccinated, only 66.5% drop
80 something's 75% vacvinated, 75% drop

We are seeing a small herd immunity at the current vaccination levels. The most vulnerable only benefit as vaccinated. I assume as we approach Israeli vaccination levels herd immunity improves dramatically (lucky individuals are not exposed).

The main benefit of vaccines isn't to the individual, it is to their contacts. I posted above how mRNA reduce transmission 90%.

Lightsaber

Some of the drop is the natural drop we have seen since January, but the older +60 numbers are showing much steeper drops than the others. It will be interesting to see this in another month.

The below article is linking the AZ and Johnson and Johnson issues.

The officials said the clots “appear to be extremely rare.” They said people who have received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine who develop severe headache, abdominal pain, leg pain or shortness of breath within three weeks after vaccination should contact their doctor.

The rare blood clots, paired with low levels of platelets, were first detected in people in Europe who had received the vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford. European regulators said it was “plausible” that the clots were linked to that vaccination and have also been reviewing four similar clotting cases after vaccination with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, which uses a similar technology.

Nearly 7 million doses of Johnson & Johnson’s single-shot vaccine had been administered throughout the country as of Monday, according to CDC data. More than twice that amount, about 16 million doses, have been delivered to states and territories, and through federal channels, since the beginning of March.

So 6, and maybe more people have had severe reactions to the vaccine rollout. This seems to be...assuming there may be 10 times more , still a 1 in 100,000 chance.. I think the J & J is still safe, they just need to isolate some contributing factors to steer those that are susceptible away from it.

lightsaber wrote:

Stay active. A sedentary lifestyle can increase your blood clot risk, so make sure to get regular exercise. If you need to sit for a long time — like with working or traveling — try to take regular breaks so you can get up and move around.
Lose weight if you’re overweight. Shedding excess weight can help lower your risk for developing blood clots.
Don’t smoke. Smoking can damage the lining of your blood vessels and cause clots to form.
Know the side effects of medications. Some types of medications, including birth control pills, hormone replacement therapy, and certain cancer drugs, may increase your risk for blood clots. Work with your doctor to make sure these are properly managed to minimize the risk of blood clots.

DocLightning wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Stay active. A sedentary lifestyle can increase your blood clot risk, so make sure to get regular exercise. If you need to sit for a long time — like with working or traveling — try to take regular breaks so you can get up and move around.
Lose weight if you’re overweight. Shedding excess weight can help lower your risk for developing blood clots.
Don’t smoke. Smoking can damage the lining of your blood vessels and cause clots to form.
Know the side effects of medications. Some types of medications, including birth control pills, hormone replacement therapy, and certain cancer drugs, may increase your risk for blood clots. Work with your doctor to make sure these are properly managed to minimize the risk of blood clots.

The process here is immune-mediated and generally affects young, otherwise healthy people with robust immune systems. As women have more robust immune systems than men, it's not surprising that they are getting hit harder. So this is not the typical DVT situation caused by venous stasis that would respond to increased activity.

This is not the first vaccine to create extremely rare clotting issues. They've also been seen following use of the AstraZeneca vaccine. The problem appears to be caused by the harmless virus (an adenovirus) that carries a single gene from SARS-CoV-2 in order to elicit an immune response.

The leading hypothesis to explain the phenomenon is that, in very rare cases, the adenovirus triggers an immune response to factors found on the surface of platelets, which are an essential part of the clotting process. This activates platelets, causing clots, and at the same time reduces the total platelet count.

These seemingly contradictory changes make treating the issue through the normal approach to excessive clotting dangerous. Typically, the appearance of clots would call for using a treatment that would reduce the probability of clots forming. But due to the low platelet counts in these individuals, those treatments can make it much less likely that clots form when they're needed.

It's this difference between apparent patient needs and appropriate treatment that has caused the CDC and FDA to call for a pause in the use of the J&J vaccine.

lightsaber wrote:

Please educate me. My understanding is exercise helps break up clots or prevent small clots from being the nucleus for growing larger clots.

BaconButty wrote:

So a country (Taiwan?) that has low levels of infection, has little public pressure to make changes, and alternative vaccines are on their way, AZ and J&J probably don't make sense. For countries like Brazil and Poland- they should take every dose they can get and put it into any arm that's willing. The Portuguese need to be honest with themselves - are they going to open up their tourist economy this summer? If so, then even though they have the virus under some measure of control currently, they may want to consider that they will likely have another wave before the cavalry arrives.

BaconButty wrote:

The point I'm making is that a rational response is ultimately driven by statistics. National regulators should be able to assess their situation, report back quickly, and keep it under review. But I'm seeing very little of rational decision making in many regulators, particularly those in Western Europe. Is it just me that finds it remarkable that restrictions were put on AZ even prior to the EMA beginning it's investigation, whereas for Janssen, nothing happens even after the EMA begin, and the manufacturer pre-empts them! The contrast couldn't be more stark. The worry is, they've played themselves. Politically, AZ were fair game, but having rubbished them they've rubbished Janssen by association.

DocLightning wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Please educate me. My understanding is exercise helps break up clots or prevent small clots from being the nucleus for growing larger clots.

So I'm speaking specifically about the issues with the AdV vaccines. There seems to be an immune response that targets platelets themselves. This causes almost all of the platelets in the body to activate and clump together. The coagulation system is a complicated Rube Goldberg system of positive and negative regulation. So the loss of platelets can paradoxically increase the risk of clotting.

So while it is generally true that being sedentary increases the risk for clotting by causing the blood to become static in veins, in the specific case of the immune thrombocytopenia that was observed with the AZ and now possibly the J&J product, that has nothing to do with it and it is the immune attack on platelets that causes the clotting (and bleeding) issues. The treatment is to suppress the immune response with steroids and pooled immune globulin and the platelet count will usually rebound quickly and order will be restored.

DocLightning wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Please educate me. My understanding is exercise helps break up clots or prevent small clots from being the nucleus for growing larger clots.

So I'm speaking specifically about the issues with the AdV vaccines. There seems to be an immune response that targets platelets themselves. This causes almost all of the platelets in the body to activate and clump together. The coagulation system is a complicated Rube Goldberg system of positive and negative regulation. So the loss of platelets can paradoxically increase the risk of clotting.

BaconButty wrote:

The point I'm making is that a rational response is ultimately driven by statistics. National regulators should be able to assess their situation, report back quickly, and keep it under review. But I'm seeing very little of rational decision making in many regulators, particularly those in Western Europe. Is it just me that finds it remarkable that restrictions were put on AZ even prior to the EMA beginning it's investigation, whereas for Janssen, nothing happens even after the EMA begin, and the manufacturer pre-empts them! The contrast couldn't be more stark. The worry is, they've played themselves. Politically, AZ were fair game, but having rubbished them they've rubbished Janssen by association.

Aesma wrote:

BaconButty wrote:

The point I'm making is that a rational response is ultimately driven by statistics. National regulators should be able to assess their situation, report back quickly, and keep it under review. But I'm seeing very little of rational decision making in many regulators, particularly those in Western Europe. Is it just me that finds it remarkable that restrictions were put on AZ even prior to the EMA beginning it's investigation, whereas for Janssen, nothing happens even after the EMA begin, and the manufacturer pre-empts them! The contrast couldn't be more stark. The worry is, they've played themselves. Politically, AZ were fair game, but having rubbished them they've rubbished Janssen by association.

Janssen using the same technique as AZ, people were expecting the same issues even before they happened.

Another one is Sputnik, and here it seems data has been suppressed by Russia...

c933103 wrote:

Report say Hong Kong government want restaurants segregate vaccinated finers and unvaccinated diners into different dining zones

T4thH wrote:

Another one is Sinopharm. The published results are not according the results seen at trial site outside of China.
Sinopharm seems in best case just to fulfill the international expected (according WHO) minimum of 50%.

lightsaber wrote:

T4thH wrote:

Another one is Sinopharm. The published results are not according the results seen at trial site outside of China.
Sinopharm seems in best case just to fulfill the international expected (according WHO) minimum of 50%.

I am more concerned for SinoVac.
In particular in Chili

Cases climb:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/chile/

One dose excellent, but I posted earlier a video that one dose gas single digit effecacy:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... vaccinated

Chile now has 25% fully vaccinated. This should reduce cases soon:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/shar ... ime=latest

This begs for data on reducing transmission. IMHO the most important benefit of a vaccine. With Ro assumed as 4, 50% effectiveness and let us assume 50% reduction in transmission, that means a constant viral transmission rate in a 100% vaccinated society... Until Vaccine+natural immunity kicks in.

Sigh... mRNA vaccines are great. Per my prior links, on track to vacvinate 1.25 billion with Pfizer, 350 million with Moderna or 1.6 billion total or 20% of the global population. Errr... We really need other vaccines.

Lightsaber