ThePointblank wrote:

A trial of an antibody-laced nasal spray appears to be effective at providing protection against variants of the COVID virus in mice:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586- ... y-20210604

A nasal spritz of a designer antibody offers strong protection against variants of the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 — at least in mice1.

Since the early days of the pandemic, scientists have been developing antibodies as treatments for COVID-19. Today, several such antibodies are in late-stage clinical trials, and a handful have been approved for emergency use by regulatory agencies in the United States and elsewhere.

Among doctors, however, antibody treatments have not been very popular, says Zhiqiang An, an antibody engineer at the University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston. That’s partly because those available are delivered through intravenous infusions rather than directly to the respiratory tract, where the virus is mainly found — so it takes high doses for them to be effective. Another challenge is the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 variants that seem to be resistant to some existing antibodies.

This is obviously very early trials work, and perhaps a demonstration of a proof of concept, so don't expect this to be a treatment option anytime soon.

Isn't it more like treatment?

proest wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Data from the Dutch health body (Page is English) https://www.rivm.nl/en/coronavirus-covi ... 2/variants . Currently, around 1500 samples are sequenced weekly, with somewhere between 10,000-15,000 total positive tests weekly (aka 7-10%). Delta is currently only a very minor (<1%) but public health experts are worried (see slide 25 https://www.tweedekamer.nl/sites/defaul ... isssel.pdf it's Dutch, but the graph is clear). The Danish should have even better data, but it's hard for me to dig that up.

Incidence of the Indian variant is currently low on the continent (surprisingly low say experts) hopefully the vaccination program will suppress this outbreak. People expect that vaccine uptake will look more like Britain then America (seriously US, what the f*ck are you doing!?).

I and my older child are vaccinated, so I personally do not understand how many are avoiding the vaccine. If the EU vaccination rate is like the UK, you will have less impact from Delta as everything I read is that the vaccines really help against not just getting Delta, but from transmitting it. (As much as 90% reduction in transmission per links in this thread earlier).

The low incidence of Delta is good news. However, the economy must be opened up and with so much of the economy tourism, it will spread. A 7 to 10% of the positive tests being sampled for variants is adequate.

I look at the large intermingling populations here in the USA that are not adequately vaccinated and I see there will be cases. Now UV kills the virus wonderfully, so the great current weather should help mitigate the spread, but it won't stop it. For a much more transmissible virus such as Delta, the US at 51% is in trouble. However, the EU is just hitting the vaccination levels where the USA suddenly hit resistance. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

When I look at the curves for German, France, Poland, and Sweden, I'm not so certain the EU will get to a higher vaccination rate than the US. We might have just hit the avoiding population earlier. Notice I don't say hesitant. Few who qualify for a vaccine today want the vaccine from my anecdotal conversations. If all kids could get vaccinated, I wouldn't care less about the anti-vax. But since kids cannot get vaccinated, this is an issue. With the (normally) open boarders of the EU, it will be a group effort.

I doubt the rural areas this summer will have a big issue. They have natural social distancing and UV kills the virus. But when the bars kick back up and concerts, we're going to see an uptick.

I'm also not so certain India is done with Delta. The areas where testing occurs were locked down and will soon recall the labor from the villages where testing doesn't occur. Due to the lack of vaccination in India (mostly due to the need for so much vaccine due to such a huge population) the virus will not be slowed by the current level of vaccination. In particular as Delta seems to require full vaccination (both doses plus two or three weeks) to be slowed.

Lightsaber

dtw2hyd wrote:

casinterest wrote:

They can't lay you off for health conditions ,but they can require you to get a vaccination. Those that refuse to do so, can be fired unless they have a disability that prevents them from getting it.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19 ... accination

That will get SCOTUS involved and whole program could be derailed. Hard to mandate a drug with EUA and government indemnity.

Peer pressure is the best option until FDA fully approves at least one vaccine. FDA full approval opens up more enforcement opportunities.

By the time SCOTUS is involved, the vaccine, not drug will be fully approved and verified. Those that don't get vaccinated will risk consequences. For reference look at Jon Rahm

https://www.dispatch.com/story/opinion/ ... 584841002/

If Rahm had been vaccinated, this situation would have been averted, and he would have played the fourth round at the Memorial, likely cruising to a victory, the large financial winnings, and the No. 1 ranking in the world.

We know that Rahm was not vaccinated based on how the PGA manages possible exposures to the players. The PGA has indicated that “north of 50%” of their members have been vaccinated. That still leaves several dozen golfers at every event who remain unprotected.

In my relative's district, vaccination rates are down and at a low level.

https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/western ... 01976.html

Sigh... ICU beds must be reserved by function. That article notes ICU beds are at 75% full, but that doesn't tell the full story. You cannot put an infectious patient in the cardiac or stroke ICU quads as that endangers the patients. Since in 2020 coronavirus took over the ICU, other specialties are not willing to consolidate quads in 2021 because they lost patients in 2020 due to insufficient available non-infectious ICU beds.

I wish the unvacvinated realized the disproportionate amount of resources they are taking.

Lightsaber

Houston Methodist has suspended 197 staff who refused vaccination. While there is a countersuit, the hospital plans to terminate employment on June 21. 27 of the suspended expected to be vaccinated before job termination.
https://news.yahoo.com/news/texas-hospi ... 14557.html

At my relatives hospital a single unvacvinated person exposed six cancer patients to the Delta variant. The doctors are livid as half of cancer patients cannot build an immunity and they are having to decide with three patients if they die of cancer or coronavirus. In my opinion, no one but a patient should enter a hospital who is unvaccinated due to the risks (too many vulnerable people) until this pandemic is over; medical being the only exception.

This will be legally dicey until full approval of a vaccine (Pfizer and Moderna applied, links upthread).

Also, an employer may exclude an employee from the workplace if the unvaccinated person would pose a “direct threat” to the health and safety of other workers; but, again, even if such a threat is real, the employer should evaluate the facts of each employee’s circumstances carefully before making a final determination.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/06/09/ ... yer-2/amp/

So if one employee is at risk (cancer, stroke, or kidney issues) the employer has an easy case once fully approved. I believe the hospital will have a high legal bill, but the case will drag out until vaccines are fully approved and at that point the employees are out of a job. I believe accomodation of the patients will prevail.

I don't understand why there is so much resistance to such amazingly safe vaccines.

I would vaccinate my younger child today if allowed.

Lightsaber

I'm getting annoyed with Vaccine surveys that keep changing the denominator to make things look better. E.g., my LA county takes vaccines applied and now divides by population 16+.
http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/ ... hboard.htm

But if we take the current 10.11 million population and 5.4 million doses, 53.4% vaccinated vs the edited 64.9%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angele ... California

My 12-15 year old child is vaccinated with both doses and considering how empty the local vaccine sites are, free Uber, and paid time for vaccines, anyone 12+ not vaccinated has chosen to be not vaccinated.

If there is no further surge, ignore me. But considering the coastal cities are few kids and heavily vaccinated, that means the inland LA cities easily have a fertile population for the next variants to spread.

Oh well, I won't influence anything.

Lightsaber

US President Biden announces US Government to buy 500 million doses of Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine to distribute to other countries. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgdhp
Of course which countries will get it, via the Covax program, could be subject to political goals of the USA, to counter China's efforts, to curry favorable political, diplomatic and economic favor. I would suggest that the USA donations should mostly go to Mexico, Central and South America, EU/UK to Africa and former colonial states.

Covax has become an interesting political object. Starting as a way to depoliticize vaccine distribution and give everybody its fair share it has become the defacto vaccine diplomatic arm of all the Western nations. This mainly because China en Russian started the vaccine diplomatic game; interesting how that turned out.

lightsaber wrote:

In UK only 3 of 126 hospitizations due to the Delta variant were fully vaccinated.
https://news.yahoo.com/news/three-vacci ... 43815.html

That is great news on vaccine effectiveness.

Lightsaber

The low level of hospitalisation of vaccinees is reassuring. The rate of increase in infection in England is not:

7 day rolling infection average (per day)

May 25 - 2,417
June 01 - 3,306
June 08 - 5,429

Most recent daily new case figures

June 07 - 5,683
June 08 - 6,049
June 09 - 7,312

With 31%-32% of the population today having no protection through previous infection or vaccination, are we going to see a massive increase in the number of infections in a delta wave? I can see the re-opening of English society - scheduled for June 21- being put on hold.

lightsaber wrote:

I am flabbergasted that people are not getting vaccinated as fast as possible, including their kids. The long haul symptoms suck and mine are minor.

Lightsaber

I just saw a news report on the Pfizer vaccine for children. They are using lower doses in children due to the fact that children get a stronger immune response to antigens. The doses for 6 months to 5 years is something like 10% of the adult dose. The more interesting consequence is that it could be possible to vaccinate the 6 month to 11 year old population very quickly. One vial that can vaccinate 6 to 7 adults could vaccinate 60 - 70 small children.

https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOUA ... 0C2000000/
Japan: Over 20 Million doses of vaccines have been administered

lightsaber wrote:

At my relatives hospital a single unvacvinated person exposed six cancer patients to the Delta variant. The doctors are livid as half of cancer patients cannot build an immunity and they are having to decide with three patients if they die of cancer or coronavirus. In my opinion, no one but a patient should enter a hospital who is unvaccinated due to the risks (too many vulnerable people) until this pandemic is over; medical being the only exception.

This will be legally dicey until full approval of a vaccine (Pfizer and Moderna applied, links upthread).

Lightsaber

If medical workers won't take a vaccine authorized by the FDA for emergency use during an actual emergency, then they are working in the wrong field. I'm not at all sympathetic. I had spine surgery in Methodist Hospital 20 years ago. I think it's appalling people who work in a hospital think whether or not they should be vaccinated should be a personal choice.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

If medical workers won't take a vaccine authorized by the FDA for emergency use during an actual emergency, then they are working in the wrong field.

Completely agree. The ethics of medical care dictate that the welfare of the patient comes before the (misconceived by some medics, in this instance) welfare of the medic.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

I think it's appalling people who work in a hospital think whether or not they should be vaccinated should be a personal choice.

Completely agree. Is it a personal choice for a surgeon to scrub up with antiseptic soap before operating if the surgeon has reservations about using antiseptic soap?

flyingclrs727 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

At my relatives hospital a single unvacvinated person exposed six cancer patients to the Delta variant. The doctors are livid as half of cancer patients cannot build an immunity and they are having to decide with three patients if they die of cancer or coronavirus. In my opinion, no one but a patient should enter a hospital who is unvaccinated due to the risks (too many vulnerable people) until this pandemic is over; medical being the only exception.

This will be legally dicey until full approval of a vaccine (Pfizer and Moderna applied, links upthread).

Lightsaber

If medical workers won't take a vaccine authorized by the FDA for emergency use during an actual emergency, then they are working in the wrong field. I'm not at all sympathetic. I had spine surgery in Methodist Hospital 20 years ago. I think it's appalling people who work in a hospital think whether or not they should be vaccinated should be a personal choice.

I can think of several reasons but the longer full approval is delayed and this debate prolongs, anti-vaxxers get more and more talking points.

dtw2hyd wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

At my relatives hospital a single unvacvinated person exposed six cancer patients to the Delta variant. The doctors are livid as half of cancer patients cannot build an immunity and they are having to decide with three patients if they die of cancer or coronavirus. In my opinion, no one but a patient should enter a hospital who is unvaccinated due to the risks (too many vulnerable people) until this pandemic is over; medical being the only exception.

This will be legally dicey until full approval of a vaccine (Pfizer and Moderna applied, links upthread).

Lightsaber

If medical workers won't take a vaccine authorized by the FDA for emergency use during an actual emergency, then they are working in the wrong field. I'm not at all sympathetic. I had spine surgery in Methodist Hospital 20 years ago. I think it's appalling people who work in a hospital think whether or not they should be vaccinated should be a personal choice.

I can think of several reasons but the longer full approval is delayed and this debate prolongs, anti-vaxxers get more and more talking points.

Both Pfizer and Moderna have applied for full approval for their vaccines. I think it's a matter of weeks now that the FDA will fully approve them.

I am in the Moderna vaccine trial. I was called in the last week of December 2020 by the clinical trial company and told Moderna wanted to begin unblinding their study at the beginning of January. I suspected that I got the vaccine and not the placebo, so I prioritized getting the 6 month post second injection appointment first, then the unblinding a week or two later. I got a call the last Thursday of February and was told Moderna wanted everyone unblinded by the end of the next week, so I switched the appointments. At the unblinding appointment I told the physician that I suspected that I got the vaccine and not the placebo. He smiled. Later I was told to go to the waiting room to either get the injection or be told I had already been vaccinated and given a card documenting my vaccinations. A few minutes later someone came into the room, told me I had been vaccinated, and gave me my card. If I suspected that I had gotten the placebo, I could have gotten unblinded in early January and been vaccinated then when only healthcare workers and the very elderly were being vaccinated under the EUA.

From my personal knowledge of the Moderna vaccine trial, I can tell you that the last people in the study were unblinded over 3 months ago. The last three month have been spent getting all the paperwork in order to get full approval.

Healthcare workers should have less wiggle room to refuse vaccines than the general population. The FDA approved several vaccines for use under a EUA. It's an emergency situation especially in hospitals. They work around vulnerable people. Seriously anti-vaxers should find other lines of work. Furthermore, they should lose professional licenses.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

If medical workers won't take a vaccine authorized by the FDA for emergency use during an actual emergency, then they are working in the wrong field. I'm not at all sympathetic. I had spine surgery in Methodist Hospital 20 years ago. I think it's appalling people who work in a hospital think whether or not they should be vaccinated should be a personal choice.

I can think of several reasons but the longer full approval is delayed and this debate prolongs, anti-vaxxers get more and more talking points.

Both Pfizer and Moderna have applied for full approval for their vaccines. I think it's a matter of weeks now that the FDA will fully approve them.

I am in the Moderna vaccine trial. I was called in the last week of December 2020 by the clinical trial company and told Moderna wanted to begin unblinding their study at the beginning of January. I suspected that I got the vaccine and not the placebo, so I prioritized getting the 6 month post second injection appointment first, then the unblinding a week or two later. I got a call the last Thursday of February and was told Moderna wanted everyone unblinded by the end of the next week, so I switched the appointments. At the unblinding appointment I told the physician that I suspected that I got the vaccine and not the placebo. He smiled. Later I was told to go to the waiting room to either get the injection or be told I had already been vaccinated and given a card documenting my vaccinations. A few minutes later someone came into the room, told me I had been vaccinated, and gave me my card. If I suspected that I had gotten the placebo, I could have gotten unblinded in early January and been vaccinated then when only healthcare workers and the very elderly were being vaccinated under the EUA.

From my personal knowledge of the Moderna vaccine trial, I can tell you that the last people in the study were unblinded over 3 months ago. The last three month have been spent getting all the paperwork in order to get full approval.

Healthcare workers should have less wiggle room to refuse vaccines than the general population. The FDA approved several vaccines for use under a EUA. It's an emergency situation especially in hospitals. They work around vulnerable people. Seriously anti-vaxers should find other lines of work. Furthermore, they should lose professional licenses.

I agree with suspension without pay, but not losing a license. You are seizing property without due process in that you take away years of their work.

But they shouldn't be in a hospital. No one other than a patient, certain exemptions (very limited) should enter.

Everyone is so tired of how long this has gone on. Without project warp speed and other projects accelerating vaccines (even if Merck, Sanofi, and NovaVax have yet to deliver, it is why many were tried and the first two were initially expected to be easy and early...)

Within weeks the vaccines should be fully authorized and then schools and employers may require vaccines.

Lightsaber

With the new OSHA rules, hospitals must have a coronavirus plan by September (I think 15th, I am not sure). Mandatory vaccination notices are going out:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hospitals- ... nst-covid/

I summed up 161,000 employees.
I'm sure many more to come.

I'm disappointed only healthcare was covered. I'm irked every article had political commentary instead of just the facts on the OSHA ruling:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/coronaviru ... utType=amp

However, the way other rules are written is one rule for vaccinated, unless exempt, I bet all hiring is only vaccinated and employers encourage.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

I agree with suspension without pay, but not losing a license. You are seizing property without due process in that you take away years of their work.

My medical license is not my property. It's a privilege that I have to work hard to maintain. In my opinion, there should be a look at how to structure regulations so that physicians, nurses, and other licensed healthcare processionals who willingly share misinformation have their licenses taken. It is one thing to express an opinion or to share the results of scientific research, but to willingly distort facts and threaten the public health is a violation of our Oath.

DocLightning wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

I agree with suspension without pay, but not losing a license. You are seizing property without due process in that you take away years of their work.

My medical license is not my property. It's a privilege that I have to work hard to maintain. In my opinion, there should be a look at how to structure regulations so that physicians, nurses, and other licensed healthcare processionals who willingly share misinformation have their licenses taken. It is one thing to express an opinion or to share the results of scientific research, but to willingly distort facts and threaten the public health is a violation of our Oath.

Sorry if you've addressed this previously...

What is the general view within the medical community regarding medics declining vaccination? Do most medics find this derogation of their duty to protect public health?

The US FDA is forcing Johnson & Johnson to discard 60 million doses of their COVID-19 vaccine due to possible contamination:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/11/the-fda ... cine-.html

Federal regulators are forcing Johnson & Johnson to scrap about 60 million doses of Covid-19 vaccine produced at a troubled Baltimore plant run by Emergent BioSolutions due to possible contamination, The New York Times reported Friday, citing people familiar with the matter.

The plant was shuttered in April after an inspection revealed several violations, including possible contamination of J&J’s vaccines with a key ingredient from AstraZeneca’s Covid vaccine. About 170 million doses of both vaccines were in question after the inspection, the Times reported.

Only two batches were approved after review, which equals out to be 10 million doses.

The ongoing situation with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine quality control issues has also spread up to Canada; a 300,000 dose shipment that arrived in Canada in April will not be released for use by Health Canada, and will be sent back to Johnson & Johnson for destruction:

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/ ... tions.html

Further to Health Canada's statement on April 30, 2021, Health Canada has completed its quality review of the shipment of Janssen vaccines that are currently in quarantine. To protect the health and safety of Canadians in response to concerns regarding a drug substance produced at the Emergent BioSolutions facility in Baltimore Maryland, Health Canada will not be releasing the shipment.

The drug substance produced at the Emergent BioSolutions facility was used in the manufacturing of this shipment of Janssen vaccines. The drug substance was manufactured at the time a separate batch of vaccines was contaminated by the components of a different vaccine. Health Canada was unable to determine that this shipment of Janssen vaccines meets the Department's rigorous quality standards.

To ensure the safety of any future vaccine supply from this facility, Health Canada is planning an onsite inspection, expected to take place this summer. Until this inspection has been completed, Canada will not be accepting any product or ingredients made at this site.

Canadians can be assured that any vaccines will only be released for distribution once Health Canada is satisfied that they meet the Department's high standards for quality, safety and efficacy.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.5467374

TORONTO -- Health Canada says it "will not be releasing" the 310,000 Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine doses that arrived in the country in April due to a possible quality control issue.

Another batch of Johnson & Johnson vaccines is expected to arrive in Canada sometime in late June, with no indication as to how many doses or where they were manufactured.

art wrote:

...
What is the general view within the medical community regarding medics declining vaccination? Do most medics find this derogation of their duty to protect public health?

Seriously, what about when they were working in COVID wards without any proven remedy or PPE. Many healthcare workers gave their lives for private corporations.

AMA survey(don't know why someone can't count all numbers) shows 96% physicians are fully vaccinated. Rest are planning to take soon.
https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/p ... t-covid-19

In most countries COVID recovery is considered one dose. Here in the USA, it is not. Initial expert opinion was natural immunity lacks memory, questionable opinion at best, but questioning is taboo.

When CDC itself is not sure what are facts, how to define misinformation?
Earlier Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and others were actively deleting information which doesn't agree with CDC. Now just a warning to refer to CDC.

dtw2hyd wrote:

When CDC itself is not sure what are facts, how to define misinformation?

That's not how science works.
The CDC is reporting the best knowledge it has. It's still composed of imperfect humans. When more information is found, the recommendations are adapted to fit the latest understanding.
Expecting perfect knowledge for a novel virus is a fool's errand.

I'd rather get the latest and best scientific information even if imperfect, rather than some bozo telling me about some cure he thinks will work because he has friends who want to sell unproven remedies.

https://hk.appledaily.com/china/2021061 ... OVOYAT4JE/
China is going to start production of Pfizer/Biontech vaccine with tech transfer, anticipated to start from August, with expected annual production rate of 1 billion dose per year.

https://www.cna.com.tw/news/firstnews/202106120173.aspx
China: Fuxing group emphasis that they have right over distribution of Pfizer/Biontech vaccines to Taiwan, any private entities or government in Taiwan trying to purchase Pifzer vaccine can only acquire vaccines from them, investors can ignore any rumors on the internet

Chemist wrote:

The CDC is reporting the best knowledge it has. It's still composed of imperfect humans. When more information is found, the recommendations are adapted to fit the latest understanding.
Expecting perfect knowledge for a novel virus is a fool's errand.

That is not my understanding, best analogy CDC following CNN's investigative journalism model. Just analyze other studies and come up with recommendations.

Apparently in 2016, most/some senior CDC staff left, again in 2019.

CDC used to conduct own detailed studies, now they are using any available single study to put out guidance. The 3-ft school children separation was one such example.
Efficacy estimates as based on small sample sizes from single hospital system studies.

US does, very minimal sequencing compared to other western countries, very little contact tracing.

Accepting it as airborne took one year too long. Apparently this was true with measles, TB and others, took 10 years before regulators accepted those as airborne.

I keep an eye on happenings in UK, because what happens there will happen here sooner or later.
We could use that lead time to prepare better, but we won't. Just pretend surprised when it hits the fan.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Chemist wrote:

The CDC is reporting the best knowledge it has. It's still composed of imperfect humans. When more information is found, the recommendations are adapted to fit the latest understanding.
Expecting perfect knowledge for a novel virus is a fool's errand.

That is not my understanding, best analogy CDC following CNN's investigative journalism model. Just analyze other studies and come up with recommendations.

Apparently in 2016, most/some senior CDC staff left, again in 2019.

CDC used to conduct own detailed studies, now they are using any available single study to put out guidance. The 3-ft school children separation was one such example.
Efficacy estimates as based on small sample sizes from single hospital system studies.

US does, very minimal sequencing compared to other western countries, very little contact tracing.

Accepting it as airborne took one year too long. Apparently this was true with measles, TB and others, took 10 years before regulators accepted those as airborne.

I keep an eye on happenings in UK, because what happens there will happen here sooner or later.
We could use that lead time to prepare better, but we won't. Just pretend surprised when it hits the fan.

The UK us doing a disproportionate amount of the research.

What matters is quantity vaccinated or more precicely local fraction. For if one group of say a hundred people is exposed with say 20% vaccination rate, it doesn't matter if the neighboring group is 90% vaccinated, the new variants, that seem to not care about prior exposure, just spread in new populations.

The CDC is too political. Bummer. Follow the UK as you noted. The US is too political. e.g., one group is a victim for being unvacinated while another villianized for the same behavior. I wish people would consider pavlovian conditioning as both strategies are doomed to fail in getting people vaccinated.

I have great success getting people to vaccinate just by refusing desert. They mock me and then I tell them how I cannot taste fat, so desert is disgusting (for most deserts). Then I mock the Unvaccinated for the new long haul symptoms and point out I will have exactly the sympathy I receive.

Lightsaber

dtw2hyd wrote:

I keep an eye on happenings in UK, because what happens there will happen here sooner or later.
We could use that lead time to prepare better, but we won't. Just pretend surprised when it hits the fan.

Big rise in delta here in UK. It is reported that 90% of current COVID-19 infections are delta. Not quite sure when it arrived here but it has not taken long to supplant alpha. Reported COVID-19 infections have roughly tripled in 3 weeks. Due to a partial easing of restrictions 4 weeks ago it is not clear how much of the rise in infections is due to delta. Average daily infection rate May 17-24 = 2073. Average daily infection rate June 06-12 = 6703. NB Figures given are for England alone (not UK).

In 2 days' time the UK government is due to confirm the planned return to 'normality' in the country from June 21st. I doubt that will occur now. I expect that most or all current restrictions will be extended for a further month. What reaction is likely in the US if delta causes infection rates to rise steeply there?

art wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

I keep an eye on happenings in UK, because what happens there will happen here sooner or later.
We could use that lead time to prepare better, but we won't. Just pretend surprised when it hits the fan.

Big rise in delta here in UK. It is reported that 90% of current COVID-19 infections are delta. Not quite sure when it arrived here but it has not taken long to supplant alpha. Reported COVID-19 infections have roughly tripled in 3 weeks. Due to a partial easing of restrictions 4 weeks ago it is not clear how much of the rise in infections is due to delta. Average daily infection rate May 17-24 = 2073. Average daily infection rate June 06-12 = 6703. NB Figures given are for England alone (not UK).

In 2 days' time the UK government is due to confirm the planned return to 'normality' in the country from June 21st. I doubt that will occur now. I expect that most or all current restrictions will be extended for a further month. What reaction is likely in the US if delta causes infection rates to rise steeply there?

It is difficult to blame rising cases on the delta variant specifically. It’s a nice scare tactic for the government, though. As you point out, a reopening happened. That is the most likely primary cause of new cases. Any variant needs only the slightest evolutionary advantage to quickly become dominant.

aerolimani wrote:

It is difficult to blame rising cases on the delta variant specifically. It’s a nice scare tactic for the government, though. As you point out, a reopening happened. That is the most likely primary cause of new cases. Any variant needs only the slightest evolutionary advantage to quickly become dominant.

All manner of incentives are being used to combat vaccine hesitancy, why not information on infection rates? The initial info that the majority of UK Delta infections was among the unvaccinated is already far in the rear view mirror, however the political battle about why it took the government so long to shut down travel from India rages on.
One thought about freedom day should be a two week buffer where medical personnel are allowed extra vacation and time off to recuperate after a very long year, then just open up and be done with it. Treatment options have improved along with the deployment of vaccines, so how much longer must the economic damage of the blunt instrument be used as if there are no alternatives?

par13del wrote:

aerolimani wrote:

It is difficult to blame rising cases on the delta variant specifically. It’s a nice scare tactic for the government, though. As you point out, a reopening happened. That is the most likely primary cause of new cases. Any variant needs only the slightest evolutionary advantage to quickly become dominant.

All manner of incentives are being used to combat vaccine hesitancy, why not information on infection rates? The initial info that the majority of UK Delta infections was among the unvaccinated is already far in the rear view mirror, however the political battle about why it took the government so long to shut down travel from India rages on.
One thought about freedom day should be a two week buffer where medical personnel are allowed extra vacation and time off to recuperate after a very long year, then just open up and be done with it. Treatment options have improved along with the deployment of vaccines, so how much longer must the economic damage of the blunt instrument be used as if there are no alternatives?

The numbers for the Delta variant aren’t great:

“According to the report, since the start of February to 7 June, there were 33,206 Delta cases in England: while 19,573 were in unvaccinated individuals, 1,785 were among fully vaccinated people and 7,559 were among those who had received one jab, with the vaccination status of the remainder unclear.

In total, 383 people in England were admitted to hospital with the Delta variant over that period – 223 of whom tested positive for Covid before turning up at A&E – with 42 having had two doses of the jab, 86 having one dose and 251 unvaccinated.

Of the 42 deaths recorded in England within 28 days of a positive test involving the Delta variant, 23 were in unvaccinated people, with 12 among those who were fully vaccinated and seven among people who had had one dose.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ases-in-uk

Thought these mRNAs could be tweaked relatively quickly for new variants? Delta’s been around for a while now, but no news on that front.

ElPistolero wrote:

par13del wrote:

aerolimani wrote:

It is difficult to blame rising cases on the delta variant specifically. It’s a nice scare tactic for the government, though. As you point out, a reopening happened. That is the most likely primary cause of new cases. Any variant needs only the slightest evolutionary advantage to quickly become dominant.

All manner of incentives are being used to combat vaccine hesitancy, why not information on infection rates? The initial info that the majority of UK Delta infections was among the unvaccinated is already far in the rear view mirror, however the political battle about why it took the government so long to shut down travel from India rages on.
One thought about freedom day should be a two week buffer where medical personnel are allowed extra vacation and time off to recuperate after a very long year, then just open up and be done with it. Treatment options have improved along with the deployment of vaccines, so how much longer must the economic damage of the blunt instrument be used as if there are no alternatives?

The numbers for the Delta variant aren’t great:

“According to the report, since the start of February to 7 June, there were 33,206 Delta cases in England: while 19,573 were in unvaccinated individuals, 1,785 were among fully vaccinated people and 7,559 were among those who had received one jab, with the vaccination status of the remainder unclear.

In total, 383 people in England were admitted to hospital with the Delta variant over that period – 223 of whom tested positive for Covid before turning up at A&E – with 42 having had two doses of the jab, 86 having one dose and 251 unvaccinated.

Of the 42 deaths recorded in England within 28 days of a positive test involving the Delta variant, 23 were in unvaccinated people, with 12 among those who were fully vaccinated and seven among people who had had one dose.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ases-in-uk

Thought these mRNAs could be tweaked relatively quickly for new variants? Delta’s been around for a while now, but no news on that front.

The few breakthrough cases are typically mild:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/f ... NewsSearch

Note: In my relatives hospital, they have had 4 hospitalized cases from the Delta variant (all older, I talked over a week ago): 3 of 6 exposed cancer patients. Since 50% of cancer patients cannot build a response to covid19, this is unfortunately right as expected. One individual who... well, it is a virus that replicates in fat cells and that just cannot be helped.

The issue is both doses of mRNA are needed to protect:
https://news.yahoo.com/theres-more-evid ... 18653.html

So at this time, in my opinion, there is no need for mRNA booster. The top scientists question the need. It is more the manufacturers trying to sell. I personally believe a booster is needed *next* year, but not now.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-05-13/

What is needed is a higher fraction vaccinated. In the US that is the anti-vaxers just refusing. We are, in my opinion, past vaccine hesitancy. Everyone one I know saying they just need more information will in private say they will never get it, but they have choses a less confrontational approach to how they report.

The anti-vax are immune to facts. If I could vaccinate my younger child, I wouldn't care. But since I cannot, I am concerned they are spreading the varriants.

Lightsaber

Judge dismisses lawsuit against vaccination requirements:
A federal judge on Saturday dismissed a lawsuit brought by some employees of a Texas hospital over its requirement that workers be vaccinated against COVID-19, CBS affiliate KHOU-TV reports. Nearly 200 employees at Houston Methodist were suspended without pay last week for their failure to get fully vaccinated, per the hospital system's requirements.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/judge ... NewsSearch

Considering how at my relative's hospital an unvaccinated individual infected 6 people in the cancer patient waiting room (3 are expected to die, for you can treat cancer or coronavirus, not both), I am all for this.

Studies have found an unvaccinated person is ten times the risk of transmitting of the vaccinated:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/cdc-stud ... es-5121080

In my opinion, in a hospital, due to all the vulnerable people, unvaccinated should not be allowed in unless as a patient to receive care (it was the son of a cancer patient who was unvaccinated who infected everyone, more than likely no infections if he had been vaccinated). The doctors are livid at those 3 impending deaths as they are three really nice people who will die because of false reasons to avoid a vaccine.

Please read the judges ruling on the vaccines, I agree.
I posted a link upthread on how 5% of people who get the virus get heart inflammation. Due to persistent high background levels of the virus...

My relative's county is almost back up to peak levels. 44 in hospital (vs. 50 at prior peak). This is insane considering they shut down the coronavirus ward for about three weeks due to lack of patients. Why won't people vaccinate? Note: I don't expect an answer. It looks like I'll never enjoy deserts again like I used to as the virus took away my sense of taste of fat. Bummer. The
https://health.mesacounty.us/covid19/datadashboard/

All my long haul symptoms from coronavirus are nerve damage. I don't want anyone else to have it (in particular my kids). It should be mandatory reading on long haul symptoms:
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020090 ... -survivors

Lightsaber

From the article here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ases-in-uk

Dr Jenny Harries, the chief executive of the UK Health Security Agency, urged people eligible for vaccination to come forward to receive the jab.

However the number of jabs administered each week in England has been falling since delta hit significantly, not rising as one would expect with a more threatening variant taking hold. To wit:

Total vaccinations in week ending

May 23 - 3,380,190
May 30 - 3,446,654
Jun 06 - 2,814,321
Jun 13 - 2,772,099

UK is just now reaching the lowest age 'slice' of the population for which vaccines have been approved, many of whom have been clamouring for the vaccine because they want to go on holiday outside the UK. So there appears to be no shortage of willing candidates for vaccination, no vaccine shortage as far as I know, an increased urgency in getting people protected from delta and slowing its spread yet a slowdown in vaccination!

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/ ... 210613.htm
Hong Kong: A survey among poor elderly in Hong Kong indocate 50% of them say they won't take the vaccine and another 30% say they're considering. Of these 80% elderly, half of them say they're willing to take the vaccine if they are being given vaccine risk assessment.
The survey also found 80% these elderly wouldn't actively seek health service help, 70% have never used public health system before, and over 90% aren't doing regular body checks, with some 40% of them say they cannot afford such.

c933103 wrote:

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/k2/1595679-20210613.htm
Hong Kong: A survey among poor elderly in Hong Kong indocate 50% of them say they won't take the vaccine and another 30% say they're considering. Of these 80% elderly, half of them say they're willing to take the vaccine if they are being given vaccine risk assessment.
The survey also found 80% these elderly wouldn't actively seek health service help, 70% have never used public health system before, and over 90% aren't doing regular body checks, with some 40% of them say they cannot afford such.

If 70% have never used the public health system before, is that likely to make them reluctant to use it for vaccination? I would think that is probably true.

art wrote:

From the article here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ases-in-uk

Dr Jenny Harries, the chief executive of the UK Health Security Agency, urged people eligible for vaccination to come forward to receive the jab.

However the number of jabs administered each week in England has been falling since delta hit significantly, not rising as one would expect with a more threatening variant taking hold. To wit:

Total vaccinations in week ending

May 23 - 3,380,190
May 30 - 3,446,654
Jun 06 - 2,814,321
Jun 13 - 2,772,099

UK is just now reaching the lowest age 'slice' of the population for which vaccines have been approved, many of whom have been clamouring for the vaccine because they want to go on holiday outside the UK. So there appears to be no shortage of willing candidates for vaccination, no vaccine shortage as far as I know, an increased urgency in getting people protected from delta and slowing its spread yet a slowdown in vaccination!

Open to all age 12+ so families can protect themselves too If people won't sign up, go for those that will.

Overall, the UK vaccination rate is good. Sadly, USA vaccinations are falling off:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/dail ... EU~GBR~USA

Do people not realize there are enough unvaccinated to keep this going until a big pocket has an issue? I'm one of the few vaccinated taking precautions; most single people I know that are vaccinated couldn't care less about what happens to the unvaccinated. I was having to explain to an eighty year old man he cared for when the hospitals fill up, he wouldn't be able to make certain medical appointments as happened last year. He just wanted to argue that doctors should be prioritized for the elderly and not those that chose.

But it is bad. I know a pediatric ICU doctor who lost it. He needed to vent. One of his pediatric coronavirus patients, otherwise a very healthy child, is doing so poorly he is getting angry as he cannot yet mentally process the child will die, in my opinion. It will take weeks, but sadly it is obvious. This delta variant is nasty. His anger at the unvaccinated is... understandable. All because this child's patents were too selfish to get vaccinated (they gave it to their child); oh well, Darwin award.

We need more vaccinations, but we won't get it. I'm frustrated as I cannot vaccinate my younger child.

Lightsaber

art wrote:

c933103 wrote:

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/k2/1595679-20210613.htm
Hong Kong: A survey among poor elderly in Hong Kong indocate 50% of them say they won't take the vaccine and another 30% say they're considering. Of these 80% elderly, half of them say they're willing to take the vaccine if they are being given vaccine risk assessment.
The survey also found 80% these elderly wouldn't actively seek health service help, 70% have never used public health system before, and over 90% aren't doing regular body checks, with some 40% of them say they cannot afford such.

If 70% have never used the public health system before, is that likely to make them reluctant to use it for vaccination? I would think that is probably true.

In Hong Kong, the mass vaccination program only barely make use the public health system.
Available vaccination sites are:
- Mass vaccination centers (online reservation required)
- Public clinic (online reservation required)
- Partnered private clinic (contact the doctor directly)
- On site service for elder home and such
- Government health center (only for those who have been using those services)(SinoVac only)
- Dispatcher for individual organizations
The private clinic option should be most accessible option for people who aren't familiar with getting government service via online webpages, and that isn't part of the public health system.

c933103 wrote:

art wrote:

c933103 wrote:

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/k2/1595679-20210613.htm
Hong Kong: A survey among poor elderly in Hong Kong indocate 50% of them say they won't take the vaccine and another 30% say they're considering. Of these 80% elderly, half of them say they're willing to take the vaccine if they are being given vaccine risk assessment.
The survey also found 80% these elderly wouldn't actively seek health service help, 70% have never used public health system before, and over 90% aren't doing regular body checks, with some 40% of them say they cannot afford such.

If 70% have never used the public health system before, is that likely to make them reluctant to use it for vaccination? I would think that is probably true.

In Hong Kong, the mass vaccination program only barely make use the public health system.
Available vaccination sites are:
- Mass vaccination centers (online reservation required)
- Public clinic (online reservation required)
- Partnered private clinic (contact the doctor directly)
- On site service for elder home and such
- Government health center (only for those who have been using those services)(SinoVac only)
- Dispatcher for individual organizations
The private clinic option should be most accessible option for people who aren't familiar with getting government service via online webpages, and that isn't part of the public health system.

Should be free and easy for mass vaccination to work IMO. If that is not the case in Hong Kong, that is a big problem.

Having to be known to the system to arrange vaccination (if the case) is inappropriate given the circumstances of high risk of serious epidemic. Loads of walk-in clinics would be a good start. Ultimately one wants nearly everyone vaccinated so it is better to vaccinate a lot of people who self select - possibly not the most pressing candidates - than to select fewer using a booking process with selection. To me it would be better to reach 50% of a random selection of the population vaccinated than 30% of the population who take precedence on vulnerability.

art wrote:

..
In 2 days' time the UK government is due to confirm the planned return to 'normality' in the country from June 21st. I doubt that will occur now. I expect that most or all current restrictions will be extended for a further month. What reaction is likely in the US if delta causes infection rates to rise steeply there?

Hard to say what measures will be taken. B.1.617.2 is estimated to raise sharply.
https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/ ... 1395801090

I live in a well vaccinated county, my worry is not unvaccinated, but vaccinated attending large gatherings and interacting with unvaccinated <12 kids all without masks. Because CDC told they cannot transmit.

CDC doesn't put out much data, these tidbits of information from enthusiasts, activist epidemiologists and academicians.
CDC is not investigate mild breakthroughs, only serious hospitalizations and deaths. But headline news is no breakthroughs resulted in hospitalizations or death. Go figure.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/25/heal ... ccine.html

CDC doesn't investigate VAERS(UK Yellow Card) entries. Anti-vaxxers are using it scare people, CDC says entries are fake in their own system. Political football.

Our choices are either to blindly believe CDC or to make personal act based on information provided by alarmists. Wearing mask in crowded areas after fully vaccinated is an alarmist suggest, yet I am following, just to be safe.

UK delays opening society up for 4 weeks from June 21st to July 19th.

By that time (according to my model) 1st jab should have been given to ~ 80% of population and 2nd jab to ~55% of population. I believe the government is aiming at 66% of population having 2nd jabs by July 19th, in which case vaccinations per day will need to rise from current levels and/or preference will need to be given to 2nd jabs over 1st jabs (reducing 1st jab incidence to less than 80%). It appears that the guilty party here is delta, which has almost entirely supplanted alpha since its arrival in the UK at the beginning of April.

https://www.reuters.com/article/guangzh ... NKCS2DC0WI
Just saw this news from May 31.
Guangzhou, a city with more than 15 million people, have announced discovery of 11 cases of new novel coronavirus infection by May 31, all of which are of the variant from India. Because there was an increase in vaccine demand following the discovery of cases, as they worry about people gathering together to get the vaccine will increase transmission risk, and as they want to conserve the medical staff resource on mass testing the population in the city, they decided to suspend the vaccination program for individual citizens.

art wrote:

c933103 wrote:

art wrote:

If 70% have never used the public health system before, is that likely to make them reluctant to use it for vaccination? I would think that is probably true.

In Hong Kong, the mass vaccination program only barely make use the public health system.
Available vaccination sites are:
- Mass vaccination centers (online reservation required)
- Public clinic (online reservation required)
- Partnered private clinic (contact the doctor directly)
- On site service for elder home and such
- Government health center (only for those who have been using those services)(SinoVac only)
- Dispatcher for individual organizations
The private clinic option should be most accessible option for people who aren't familiar with getting government service via online webpages, and that isn't part of the public health system.

Should be free and easy for mass vaccination to work IMO. If that is not the case in Hong Kong, that is a big problem.

Having to be known to the system to arrange vaccination (if the case) is inappropriate given the circumstances of high risk of serious epidemic. Loads of walk-in clinics would be a good start. Ultimately one wants nearly everyone vaccinated so it is better to vaccinate a lot of people who self select - possibly not the most pressing candidates - than to select fewer using a booking process with selection. To me it would be better to reach 50% of a random selection of the population vaccinated than 30% of the population who take precedence on vulnerability.

The private clinic option is free and only require contacting the doctors individually instead of central registration, but according to my understanding they can only arrange the Sinovac vaccination because Pfizer/Biontech require extra low storage temperature which can only be handled at mass vaccination site (Hong Kong government didn't seems to got the notice that Pfizer/Biontech vaccine can now be stored at -15 - -25 degree Celsius for up to a month)
There seems to be enough excess capacity at mass vaccination sites that some of them are going to be closed down due to lack of usage - while the current one-dose vaccination rate in Hong Kong is 26%. Currently reservation for vaccine have been opened to anyone age over 12 and some foreign residents living in Hong Kong are also under arrangement of receiving vaccines. There are still millions of vaccines that will be expiring by September but the government hope that they can be used up through vaccination motivation schemes.

c933103 wrote:

https://www.reuters.com/article/guangzhou-covid-test-vaccine-0531-idCNKCS2DC0WI
Just saw this news from May 31.
Guangzhou, a city with more than 15 million people, have announced discovery of 11 cases of new novel coronavirus infection by May 31, all of which are of the variant from India. Because there was an increase in vaccine demand following the discovery of cases, as they worry about people gathering together to get the vaccine will increase transmission risk, and as they want to conserve the medical staff resource on mass testing the population in the city, they decided to suspend the vaccination program for individual citizens.

Sounds like they really need a system of vaccination by appointment only. With their apparent high demand, that should function well.

If my experience in Beijing, a few years back, is any indication, they are probably not socially distancing at all while queuing. If it’s anything like it was, people will huddle and push together, trying to get to the front.

Of course, nothing can prevent the close contact required for a person to actually give you a vaccine, though in that situation, KN95 masks could be mandated, I should think.

I hope they can get their vaccination program underway again soon.

aerolimani wrote:

c933103 wrote:

https://www.reuters.com/article/guangzhou-covid-test-vaccine-0531-idCNKCS2DC0WI
Just saw this news from May 31.
Guangzhou, a city with more than 15 million people, have announced discovery of 11 cases of new novel coronavirus infection by May 31, all of which are of the variant from India. Because there was an increase in vaccine demand following the discovery of cases, as they worry about people gathering together to get the vaccine will increase transmission risk, and as they want to conserve the medical staff resource on mass testing the population in the city, they decided to suspend the vaccination program for individual citizens.

Sounds like they really need a system of vaccination by appointment only. With their apparent high demand, that should function well.

If my experience in Beijing, a few years back, is any indication, they are probably not socially distancing at all while queuing. If it’s anything like it was, people will huddle and push together, trying to get to the front.

Of course, nothing can prevent the close contact required for a person to actually give you a vaccine, though in that situation, KN95 masks could be mandated, I should think.

I hope they can get their vaccination program underway again soon.

According to my knowledge they already require reservation

Just heard, Curevac seems to be out of the game. They do only reach an efficacy of less than 50% (47%) in comparison to placebo.

And now I have to find a link, best in English....

EDIT: Link in Gerrman.
https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/covid-impfstoff-von-curevac-verfehlt-bei-zwischenanalyse-erfolgskriterien-a-dd1df81d-ea19-4e05-86dd-5466165db1e2

EDIT 2: Announcement of the results, also in German.
https://www.dgap.de/dgap/News/corporate/curevac-gibt-statusupdate-zur-phase-bstudie-fuer-impfstoffkandidat-der-ersten-generation-cvncov-bekannt/?newsID=1455900

EDIT 3: all news, I have seen in English are behind a paywall or the information are less or more neglible.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/curevac-stock-drops-more-than-50-on-news-trial-covid-vaccine-47-effective-11623877850

T4thH wrote:

Just heard, Curevac seems to be out of the game. They do only reach an efficacy of less than 50% (47%) in comparison to placebo.

And now I have to find a link, best in English....

EDIT: Link in Gerrman.
https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/medizin/covid-impfstoff-von-curevac-verfehlt-bei-zwischenanalyse-erfolgskriterien-a-dd1df81d-ea19-4e05-86dd-5466165db1e2

EDIT 2: Announcement of the results, also in German.
https://www.dgap.de/dgap/News/corporate/curevac-gibt-statusupdate-zur-phase-bstudie-fuer-impfstoffkandidat-der-ersten-generation-cvncov-bekannt/?newsID=1455900

EDIT 3: all news, I have seen in English are behind a paywall or the information are less or more neglible.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/curevac-stock-drops-more-than-50-on-news-trial-covid-vaccine-47-effective-11623877850

Thank you, my German is just good enough I could piece together the meaning. Here is an English link, no paywall:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstoc ... NewsSearch

That means Valneva, NovaVax, and Sanofi are still in work.

Lightsaber

Novavax's vaccine candidate seems to have done well in trials, showing a efficacy rate around 90%:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7947294/nova ... rge-study/

Vaccine maker Novavax said Monday its shot was highly effective against COVID-19 and also protected against variants in a large, late-stage study in the U.S. and Mexico.

The vaccine was about 90 per cent effective overall and preliminary data showed it was safe, the company said.

While demand for COVID-19 shots in the U.S. has dropped off dramatically, the need for more vaccines around the world remains critical. The Novavax vaccine, which is easy to store and transport, is expected to play an important role in boosting vaccine supplies in the developing world.

ThePointblank wrote:

Novavax's vaccine candidate seems to have done well in trials, showing a efficacy rate around 90%:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7947294/nova ... rge-study/

Vaccine maker Novavax said Monday its shot was highly effective against COVID-19 and also protected against variants in a large, late-stage study in the U.S. and Mexico.

The vaccine was about 90 per cent effective overall and preliminary data showed it was safe, the company said.

While demand for COVID-19 shots in the U.S. has dropped off dramatically, the need for more vaccines around the world remains critical. The Novavax vaccine, which is easy to store and transport, is expected to play an important role in boosting vaccine supplies in the developing world.

It seems to have done very well. As the vaccine that has been always two months from great success (read back through this thread), I'll wait for the authorization and more so, for production.

With 1.1 billion doses pledged to the Covax distribution, high volumes are needed and as we've seen, a society highly vaccinated early has much slower transmission (UK, Israel, even the USA).

They claim to have lined up production capacity:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/novavax ... 2021-06-16

But I'll wait. This company has more vaporware than a dotcom bubble corporation. Don't get me wrong, their UK results and now US results are excellent. So good I question why they aren't distributing large volumes in the UK. I'm sure they would be certified as soon as they had say 10 million doses on hand to hand over per contract to the UK... So the question becomes where are the doses (too many vaccines have failed on production promises, most in fact, somehow the really hard to make mRNA had enough attention paid to production that they are producing).

I want another vaccine to succeed but one would have to go through all my excited posts on Novavax (in this very thread) to understand why they no longer get the benefit of the doubt from myself. That is why I believe they are always going to be 2 months away from greatness. I hope they can vanquish my cynicism.

Lightsaber

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... 2b4aec5d60

More than 350 Indonesian doctors have contracted Covid-19 despite being vaccinated with Sinovac and dozens have been hospitalised, officials said, as concerns rise about the efficacy of some vaccines against more virulent virus strains.

Most of the doctors were asymptomatic and self-isolating at home, said Badai Ismoyo, head of the Kudus district health office in Central Java, but dozens were in hospital with high fevers and declining oxygen saturation levels.

There is more worth reading.

In my opinion, Asymptomatic means the doctors would spread the virus around the hospital. mRNA and AZ were show upthread to be incredibly effective at stopping that.

I hope Indonesia can receive Western vaccines soon. Alas, that takes more production.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

ThePointblank wrote:

Novavax's vaccine candidate seems to have done well in trials, showing a efficacy rate around 90%:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7947294/nova ... rge-study/

Vaccine maker Novavax said Monday its shot was highly effective against COVID-19 and also protected against variants in a large, late-stage study in the U.S. and Mexico.

The vaccine was about 90 per cent effective overall and preliminary data showed it was safe, the company said.

While demand for COVID-19 shots in the U.S. has dropped off dramatically, the need for more vaccines around the world remains critical. The Novavax vaccine, which is easy to store and transport, is expected to play an important role in boosting vaccine supplies in the developing world.

It seems to have done very well. As the vaccine that has been always two months from great success (read back through this thread), I'll wait for the authorization and more so, for production.

With 1.1 billion doses pledged to the Covax distribution, high volumes are needed and as we've seen, a society highly vaccinated early has much slower transmission (UK, Israel, even the USA).

They claim to have lined up production capacity:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/novavax ... 2021-06-16

But I'll wait. This company has more vaporware than a dotcom bubble corporation. Don't get me wrong, their UK results and now US results are excellent. So good I question why they aren't distributing large volumes in the UK. I'm sure they would be certified as soon as they had say 10 million doses on hand to hand over per contract to the UK... So the question becomes where are the doses (too many vaccines have failed on production promises, most in fact, somehow the really hard to make mRNA had enough attention paid to production that they are producing).

I want another vaccine to succeed but one would have to go through all my excited posts on Novavax (in this very thread) to understand why they no longer get the benefit of the doubt from myself. That is why I believe they are always going to be 2 months away from greatness. I hope they can vanquish my cynicism.

Lightsaber

With nearly 80% of the UK population having received their first dose, the UK does not need to be introducing a new vaccine type at this time. They need to continue with second doses of the vaccine types they’ve already administered.

It’s the same with Canada not taking deliveries of J&J, even though the contract is in place, and it is one of the few approved by Health Canada. They’ve committed to exclusively Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and Moderna.

The only reason (I can think of) that the UK might purchase a new type, at this time, would be to pass it directly on to the COVAX program.