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KlimaBXsst
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Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:52 pm

The NASDAQ and other Exchanges are exploring a move to Texas.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/tec ... tial-move/

The big winners I see here are American Airlines, with their big hub in Dallas and Southwest Airlines with their Love Field Hub and future DFW Dallas operations.

Does Southwest have the opportunity to benefit more from this move as there is no room for expansion at Love Field? Should Southwest therefore be forced to give up gates at Love to AA or other carriers to even the playing field?

Seems like a big event for these airlines.
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Polot
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:57 pm

Keep in mind they are just talking about data centers, not the actual exchange.

It will of course be a benefit for Texas (because it’s still more business) but I think you are overestimating the actual impact this will have on demand.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:58 pm

With it being so virtual now days, will it make much of a difference? Especially in a big city like Dallas or Houston? Would just be a blip you would think.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:08 pm

Sorry seemed that link was behind a pay wall. I am not so sure what exactly they mean by “Data Centers” euphemism when it comes to the Stock Exchanges.

While Dallas is talked about ... this movecould also be a win for UNITED and Southwest in Houston.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/nasda ... s/2475771/
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Polot
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:17 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Sorry seemed that link was behind a pay wall. I am not so sure what exactly they mean by “Data Centers” euphemism when it comes to the Stock Exchanges.

While Dallas is talked about ... this movecould also be a win for UNITED and Southwest in Houston.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/nasda ... s/2475771/

Here is a decent article about the current data centers in New Jersey:

https://datacenterfrontier.com/how-data ... al-sector/
 
alasizon
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:25 pm

With it being just the data centers, there likely will be zero to no impact on the airlines. The data centers don't drive any traffic to them - nobody flies to the data center to make a trade, it is all electronic, the info just goes through the data center. Any corporate traffic from the NYC offices down to the data centers would be on existing flights.
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MO11
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:29 pm

Business travel is so 2010s....
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:30 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
With it being so virtual now days, will it make much of a difference? Especially in a big city like Dallas or Houston? Would just be a blip you would think.


This is an absolute nothing. First, data centers, while a big investment, employ very few people. Google spent $1.8 Billion in The Dalles, OR, and employed just 200 people a couple of years ago. Second, data center employees and management aren't generating big travel per person the way investment bankers do. The reason they can be located in the middle of nowhere (ever been to Facebook's data centers in Prineville, Oregon?) is that people don't travel.

https://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-fore ... ate%20data.

https://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-fore ... facilities.

As for the reasoning for putting big users of power in a hot, humid climate in a region still using a lot of coal-fired electricity... that's Texas corporate tax subsidies at work. Remember that when state officials claim there's no money for education or public health.
Last edited by MIflyer12 on Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:34 pm

Polot wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Sorry seemed that link was behind a pay wall. I am not so sure what exactly they mean by “Data Centers” euphemism when it comes to the Stock Exchanges.

While Dallas is talked about ... this movecould also be a win for UNITED and Southwest in Houston.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/nasda ... s/2475771/

Here is a decent article about the current data centers in New Jersey:

https://datacenterfrontier.com/how-data ... al-sector/


Thanks for the update, if this is the case rather than the stock market itself.

If this is the case, they may as well just move these so called “data centers,” to far west Texas where there is a lot of desert scrub land and windmills near El Paso. West of San Antonio there is scrub too. Sounds like more warehouses than gleaming skyscrapers.
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RDUDDJI
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:11 pm

This is all an attempt to get NJ to blink and not charge a per transaction tax (as has been proposed). They're also talking to other States. I suspect eventually NJ will blink, but who knows.

As others have said, there's only a few peeps that work in a data center, and they're just there to keep things running (i.e. hardware maintenance). They would all be local and not really have any reason to travel for work.
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dennypayne
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:30 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Polot wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Sorry seemed that link was behind a pay wall. I am not so sure what exactly they mean by “Data Centers” euphemism when it comes to the Stock Exchanges.

Here is a decent article about the current data centers in New Jersey:

https://datacenterfrontier.com/how-data ... al-sector/


Thanks for the update, if this is the case rather than the stock market itself.

If this is the case, they may as well just move these so called “data centers,” to far west Texas where there is a lot of desert scrub land and windmills near El Paso. West of San Antonio there is scrub too. Sounds like more warehouses than gleaming skyscrapers.


I don't know why you keep saying things like "euphemism" and "so-called" - a data center is the industry-standard term for the building that houses all the servers and networking hardware that handle large, critical websites and other networked applications. As such, they tend to be located in major metropolitan areas because the IT professionals that run them tend to be very skilled and there is not a large talent pool in somewhere like West Texas. They also require major investment in power/utility infrastructure which is more readily available in larger cities. Thirdly, they tend to be located in areas that are not subject to many potential natural disasters like hurricanes, earthquakes, and tornadoes, and Dallas is typically not very affected by those. Externally they are indeed more like a warehouse but I'm not sure why that seems to be affecting your opinion of their utility.

And like others have said, this means very little for the airlines.
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ScottB
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:37 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
As for the reasoning for putting big users of power in a hot, humid climate in a region still using a lot of coal-fired electricity... that's Texas corporate tax subsidies at work. Remember that when state officials claim there's no money for education or public health.


Or it may be about a proposed tax in New Jersey which would cost the exchanges $300 million/year -- more like New Jersey asking corporations to subsidize its wasteful spending.

Also, PJM Interconnection -- the Independent System Operator in New Jersey -- reported 24% of its generation using coal in 2019. ERCOT, the ISO in Texas, reported 20% of electricity coming from coal. Wind power was 20% of generation in ERCOT territory in 2019. So if you're concerned about coal-fired plants, you'd want to move data centers out of New Jersey.

MIflyer12 wrote:
This is an absolute nothing. First, data centers, while a big investment, employ very few people. Google spent $1.8 Billion in The Dalles, OR, and employed just 200 people a couple of years ago. Second, data center employees and management aren't generating big travel per person the way investment bankers do. The reason they can be located in the middle of nowhere (ever been to Facebook's data centers in Prineville, Oregon?) is that people don't travel.


Well, the data centers for the markets are a bit different in that traders and brokers generally want to have their own data centers close to the market's data center to speed trades, particularly if they engage in high-frequency trading. So we probably would see those data centers moving to Texas as well.

KlimaBXsst wrote:
While Dallas is talked about ... this movecould also be a win for UNITED and Southwest in Houston.


The big peering points in Texas are in the Dallas area, so it's virtually certain they'd build there. But this is only going to happen if NJ chooses to move forward with its onerous tax plans.
 
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dennypayne
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:27 pm

ScottB wrote:
The big peering points in Texas are in the Dallas area, so it's virtually certain they'd build there. But this is only going to happen if NJ chooses to move forward with its onerous tax plans.


And as I noted above, Houston is too susceptible to hurricane damage.
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rfields5421
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:45 pm

Back about 2004-2005, while in IT for a Fortune 500 company, I worked in the project to move our corporate data center OUT of Dallas, to Kentucky.

6 of the 38 people moved. A lot of equipment moved, most going back to the leasing company. The new data center equipment was installed and ran in parallel for 60 days before the live switch was made, and the old stuff was not moved out until 60 days later.

Dallas had the infrastructure to support such a major data center, as do Virginia and North Carolina. I think a lot of the decision will be based on what incentives would be given to the data center operations companies. It might happen, and it might now. I won't hold my breath.
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Aesma
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:51 pm

Data centers should be moved north or the country. Here in France that's what OVH did, with data centers using watercooling and taking advantage of the cooler climate to reduce A/C needs.

Keep in mind NASDAQ data centers moving means plenty of bank and financial institutions data centers moving too, because these want to be the closest to the source as possible, for robotic trades to be executed milliseconds before those of the competition...
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Aaron747
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:13 am

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Polot wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Sorry seemed that link was behind a pay wall. I am not so sure what exactly they mean by “Data Centers” euphemism when it comes to the Stock Exchanges.

While Dallas is talked about ... this movecould also be a win for UNITED and Southwest in Houston.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/nasda ... s/2475771/

Here is a decent article about the current data centers in New Jersey:

https://datacenterfrontier.com/how-data ... al-sector/


Thanks for the update, if this is the case rather than the stock market itself.

If this is the case, they may as well just move these so called “data centers,” to far west Texas where there is a lot of desert scrub land and windmills near El Paso. West of San Antonio there is scrub too. Sounds like more warehouses than gleaming skyscrapers.


Why are you putting 'data centers' in quotes? This has been a commonly-used term for at least 25 years.
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ltbewr
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:43 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
This is all an attempt to get NJ to blink and not charge a per transaction tax (as has been proposed). They're also talking to other States. I suspect eventually NJ will blink, but who knows.

As others have said, there's only a few peeps that work in a data center, and they're just there to keep things running (i.e. hardware maintenance). They would all be local and not really have any reason to travel for work.

Mahwah, NJ, is the site of a major data server center for the NYSE. The location is about 30 miles NW from lower Manhattan, within 2 miles of the border of NY State. https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/clo ... ta-center/
The location is one with high electricity costs, high labor costs for critical maintenance like the HVAC systems needed in such centers, high local property tax rates and perhaps should be in an area quite distant from NYC for if a major terror event (like 9/11) or a weather event that could shut it down.
And yes, its mostly a ploy to not allow the proposed trade tax and likely to extract other bad tax breaks.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:44 pm

Well the move might also have to do with this. I don’t think airlines could deal with another 4-6 weeks. Shows the radical thought process over there.

https://abc13.com/health/biden-covid-ad ... s/7896126/
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2122M
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:16 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Well the move might also have to do with this. I don’t think airlines could deal with another 4-6 weeks. Shows the radical thought process over there.

https://abc13.com/health/biden-covid-ad ... s/7896126/


Can you help us all connect the dots here? How will the ideas of a Biden COVID advisor lead to a couple of stock exchanges making the decision to move data centers to Texas from New Jersey?
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Potential Stock Market move TX - Which airlines stand to benefit most

Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:47 pm

2122M wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Well the move might also have to do with this. I don’t think airlines could deal with another 4-6 weeks. Shows the radical thought process over there.

https://abc13.com/health/biden-covid-ad ... s/7896126/


Can you help us all connect the dots here? How will the ideas of a Biden COVID advisor lead to a couple of stock exchanges making the decision to move data centers to Texas from New Jersey?


Sorry, I see I am so ahead of you.

Just meaning they probably wish to get the ball rolling on the move of data centers, before any added shut downs or travel restrictions.
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