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keesje
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America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:51 am

Joe Biden declared that “America is back” and “ready to lead the world” after announcing his top national security team, while President Trump desperately insisted that he had not conceded defeat.

“The team meets this moment,” Mr Biden said. “They embody my core belief that America is strongest when it works with its allies. Collectively, this team has secured some of the most defining national security and diplomatic achievements in recent memory, made possible through decades of experience working with our partners. That’s how we truly keep America safe.

Image

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/amer ... -07qp096pd

I guess he has too, nearly half the population voted "America First" and he needs to at least neutralize them.

In my opinion Europe and China will just do their thing & Biden's biggest problems might not be at the other side of the oceans.

Maybe a one term, not too ambitious US president, focussing on restoring thrust and cooperation is the best we can have.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Jetty
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:11 am

What makes Joe Biden think the world is waiting for a country with 70+ million MAGA voters to lead them?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:21 am

America should first reconnect to its allies and align itself more with the interest of them. Not demanding to "lead" these nations anymore.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
VSMUT
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:25 am

The Americans have proven themselves unreliable and hostile. In 4 years we could be back to a Trump-like demagogue. The rest of the world should shun the US until they fix their internal issues.
 
tommy1808
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:28 am

VSMUT wrote:
The Americans have proven themselves unreliable and hostile. In 4 years we could be back to a Trump-like demagogue. The rest of the world should shun the US until they fix their internal issues.


:checkmark: :checkmark:
Without a bunch of legal changes and restoration of the rule of law to the US there is no reason to believe this will last longer than the next midterm or Presidential election.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Reinhardt
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:38 am

VSMUT wrote:
The Americans have proven themselves unreliable and hostile. In 4 years we could be back to a Trump-like demagogue. The rest of the world should shun the US until they fix their internal issues.


Exactly. This rediculous notion from our friends across the sea that the US is the worlds "best" democracy and needs to lead the world in anything has been blown out of the water the last 4 years (many would say a long time longer than this). When 70 odd million voted for Trump and we assume a decent chunk of those don't believe in your election process anymore, with one party seemingly completely content to be screaming and shouting that you don't have a legal democracy I think you've got a hell of a long road to walk back to get credible again in the eyes of a lot of people.

You might not give a crap about what the rest of the world thinks about you, but as Qanon, Trump, Bannon etc have shown. What happens in the US affects the rest of the world. You don't live in isolation.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:26 am

keesje wrote:
Maybe a one term, not too ambitious US president, focussing on restoring thrust and cooperation is the best we can have.

That’s the way I see it as well.

Just three weeks ago 70 millions voted for Trump. Thus, the era of populism and in particular of Trumpism is far from being over. I see a realistic scenario that the Biden-presidency will be just a four year break and that starting from 2024 it will be the same as back in 2016.
 
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:10 pm

keesje wrote:
Joe Biden declared that “America is back” and “ready to lead the world” after announcing his top national security team, while President Trump desperately insisted that he had not conceded defeat.

“The team meets this moment,” Mr Biden said. “They embody my core belief that America is strongest when it works with its allies. Collectively, this team has secured some of the most defining national security and diplomatic achievements in recent memory, made possible through decades of experience working with our partners. That’s how we truly keep America safe.

Image

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/amer ... -07qp096pd

I guess he has too, nearly half the population voted "America First" and he needs to at least neutralize them.

In my opinion Europe and China will just do their thing & Biden's biggest problems might not be at the other side of the oceans.

Maybe a one term, not too ambitious US president, focussing on restoring thrust and cooperation is the best we can have.

No, America First and MAGA are isolationist stance, they'd not welcome the announcement of "Let America lead the world"
And I am also doubtful whether Biden is going to let America lead the world when her preference now seems to be domestic issues, while also fixing Trump's leftover problems
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NIKV69
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:00 pm

Dutchy wrote:
America should first reconnect to its allies and align itself more with the interest of them. Not demanding to "lead" these nations anymore.


Why we don't want to be like Europe. Why do you insist on trying to do this?
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:12 pm

This was a statement for American domestic consumption, with just a slight nod towards normalizing international relations.

It's a start on the road back towards sanity, and to make anything more of it than that is expecting way to much, particularly from a man who has yet to take office.

Whilst Biden can offer conciliatory words, it is still Trump who has his fat fingers poised on the "nuke" option.

So for now it's just baby steps.. in the right direction.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:18 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
America should first reconnect to its allies and align itself more with the interest of them. Not demanding to "lead" these nations anymore.


Why we don't want to be like Europe. Why do you insist on trying to do this?


If you want to lead....... or do you expect Europe to be like the US? And if so, what kind of US, I mean deep south is completely different than New England.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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keesje
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:20 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
America should first reconnect to its allies and align itself more with the interest of them. Not demanding to "lead" these nations anymore.


Why we don't want to be like Europe. Why do you insist on trying to do this?



- Europe is back, ready to lead the world, working with it's allies, at the head of the table, for the benefit of all.

like it?

Biden is just trying to unite his own people, playing a bit with exceptionalism & flag waving always helps. (I like the aura above his head ;) )
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
NIKV69
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:32 pm

Dutchy wrote:
If you want to lead....... or do you expect Europe to be like the US? And if so, what kind of US, I mean deep south is completely different than New England.


No I don't. Why do you keep inferring we want Europe to change? We don't. It's a dog whistle you keep using. You are free to be whatever you want as we are.

I noticed you referenced the south (we know why) I mean I just a read this today.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/premie ... d=msedgntp

Is the part of Europe that those people come from different than yours? Stop pretending racism only exists in the US. It doesn't.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
JJJ
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:40 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
America should first reconnect to its allies and align itself more with the interest of them. Not demanding to "lead" these nations anymore.


Why we don't want to be like Europe. Why do you insist on trying to do this?


You don't have to be like someone to have common goals. You definitely need them to agree for a leadership position, though.

Figure out who you want to be in the world stage before making bombastic claims would be a good start.
 
bennett123
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:41 pm

I think that we need to know a lot more before we decide that we want to be led by the US.
 
tommy1808
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:46 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
If you want to lead....... or do you expect Europe to be like the US? And if so, what kind of US, I mean deep south is completely different than New England.


Why do you keep inferring we want Europe to change? We don't.


now there is a rather blatant lie ...

less consumer protection is very, very repetitive demand from the US
wasting more money on the Military is an even more repetitive demand
you don´t want us to do business with Iran, going as far as prosecuting people for perfectly legal business, or threatening to do so
Nord Stream 2 anyone?

and the list goes on....

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
vrbarreto
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:51 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
If you want to lead....... or do you expect Europe to be like the US? And if so, what kind of US, I mean deep south is completely different than New England.


No I don't. Why do you keep inferring we want Europe to change? We don't. It's a dog whistle you keep using. You are free to be whatever you want as we are.

I noticed you referenced the south (we know why) I mean I just a read this today.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/premie ... d=msedgntp

Is the part of Europe that those people come from different than yours? Stop pretending racism only exists in the US. It doesn't.


Football has always had an issue with racism... Fortunately they are trying to address it.

https://www.kickitout.org/

Is an example from the UK of steps being taken by the players, clubs and governing body to stamp it out. Also the government recognises the issue:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50893279
 
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Francoflier
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:52 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I think that we need to know a lot more before we decide that we want to be led by the US.


The choice is pretty much going to be between China and the US anyway... China has taken advantage of the power vacuum created by Trump on the international scene to gather as much influence in as many countries and within as many international organisations as they could.

I know which side I'm on...
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Okie
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:01 pm

Wow the Grand RE-OPENING of all the Benghazi Arms dealers is just 57 days away. Exciting times coming up. :roll:


Okie
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:07 pm

Okie wrote:
Wow the Grand RE-OPENING of all the Benghazi Arms dealers is just 57 days away. Exciting times coming up. :roll:


Okie


Whatever - weakened alliances while having more drone strikes than Obama and an unending proxy war in Yemen is nothing to take pride in. Not to mention there was nothing ‘America First’ about Pompeo looking the other way when Saudi flew felon college students in multiple states out of the country to avoid criminal trials.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
bennett123
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:08 pm

Is that a choice?.
 
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keesje
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:12 pm

Francoflier wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
I think that we need to know a lot more before we decide that we want to be led by the US.


The choice is pretty much going to be between China and the US anyway...


Not sure the EU states feel they have to make any choice, sorry.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Sokes
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:24 pm

So who is supposed to lead the world if not the US?

Why is the US unreliable?
As much as I dislike Bush or even Obama for Syria/ Libya, Europe can't have a more reliable friend then the US.

We live in a historical anomaly. People grown up in the West belong to the 1% of happy people in the history of mankind.
I live in India. It's not super functioning, but it is still better than most countries of the world. And no, the majority of mankind are not liberals. Even India is not liberal.

I recently got little hammering with bamboo sticks from one maybe 80 and one maybe 50 years old ladies. It was a property dispute about my mother in law's plot. They thought they can force me into submission.
Dominance and submission is the name of the game, in property disputes, with employees and even within the family.

Europeans are well advised to dismiss the delusion that the world will be a peaceful place once Americans go into splendid isolation.

At any rate:
Thank you Americans for enabling me to grow up in wealth and peace.

I wonder what Libyans will think about the US being back to lead the world?
More interventions like Somalia and Serbia, less interventions in countries with oil would be a dream. But then which lobby group in the US should support this?
Maybe the world as today is as good as it gets.
Unless of course Europe is willing to sacrifice their sons in countries without commercial interest.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:44 pm

VSMUT wrote:
The Americans have proven themselves unreliable and hostile. In 4 years we could be back to a Trump-like demagogue. The rest of the world should shun the US until they fix their internal issues.


Very right, the good old CCP which is the only choice left, is very reliable and nice. How is that virus going over there?

Don't come back begging the US to bail you out again (like you did twice in the last century) when you get the CCP or Putin on your neck.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Dutchy
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:45 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
If you want to lead....... or do you expect Europe to be like the US? And if so, what kind of US, I mean deep south is completely different than New England.


No I don't. Why do you keep inferring we want Europe to change? We don't. It's a dog whistle you keep using. You are free to be whatever you want as we are.

I noticed you referenced the south (we know why) I mean I just a read this today.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/premie ... d=msedgntp

Is the part of Europe that those people come from different than yours? Stop pretending racism only exists in the US. It doesn't.



Why are you dragging racism into this? Don't see the relevance. And it was not something I was getting at, not at all.

To ask a silly question, who is "we" in your sentence?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:48 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
The Americans have proven themselves unreliable and hostile. In 4 years we could be back to a Trump-like demagogue. The rest of the world should shun the US until they fix their internal issues.


Very right, the good old CCP which is the only choice left, is very reliable and nice. How is that virus going over there?

Don't come back begging the US to bail you out again (like you did twice in the last century) when you get the CCP or Putin on your neck.


It’s not about the virus. In the last few years, China has put massive investments into countries in Latin America, Africa, South Asia and the Pacific. Access to capital for infrastructure and other development is what these countries are after - and they often see the Chinese as masters of planning and efficiency who can get things done despite the political costs.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:53 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
The Americans have proven themselves unreliable and hostile. In 4 years we could be back to a Trump-like demagogue. The rest of the world should shun the US until they fix their internal issues.


Very right, the good old CCP which is the only choice left, is very reliable and nice. How is that virus going over there?

Don't come back begging the US to bail you out again (like you did twice in the last century) when you get the CCP or Putin on your neck.


It’s not about the virus. In the last few years, China has put massive investments into countries in Latin America, Africa, South Asia and the Pacific. Access to capital for infrastructure and other development is what these countries are after - and they often see the Chinese as masters of planning and efficiency who can get things done despite the political costs.


Nothing great like trusting a ruthless communist dictatorship that has concentration camps into investments in your country. Nothing comes for free.

If you can't trust China on a virus, how can you trust them on anything?

Let Europe and the rest of the world embrace China. The consequences will come later or are we enduring them presently?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
Reinhardt
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:54 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
The Americans have proven themselves unreliable and hostile. In 4 years we could be back to a Trump-like demagogue. The rest of the world should shun the US until they fix their internal issues.


Very right, the good old CCP which is the only choice left, is very reliable and nice. How is that virus going over there?

Don't come back begging the US to bail you out again (like you did twice in the last century) when you get the CCP or Putin on your neck.


Ah yes the good old fall back response from an American with no clue about world politics, lets tell them we saved their asses in WWII so they owe us. Get over it. It wasn't just you, and besides you only joined in after Pearl Habour.

Back on topic.

Europe doesn't need the US or China to lead. In fact it certainly doesn't need China to lead because that only leads down one road and the world doesn't need any more power given to them. They are doing what they want in the South China sea, building massive infrastructure in Africa and are making friends everywhere the US created enemies.

The thing the US needs to do is to be seen as the good guy again, and balance China along with Europe - politically and ideology wise.

Europe can stand by itself, economically and militarily, however a strong economic and interest relationship with the US is as important as ever. And that is what needs to improve under Biden.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:58 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Very right, the good old CCP which is the only choice left, is very reliable and nice. How is that virus going over there?

Don't come back begging the US to bail you out again (like you did twice in the last century) when you get the CCP or Putin on your neck.


It’s not about the virus. In the last few years, China has put massive investments into countries in Latin America, Africa, South Asia and the Pacific. Access to capital for infrastructure and other development is what these countries are after - and they often see the Chinese as masters of planning and efficiency who can get things done despite the political costs.


Nothing great like trusting a ruthless communist dictatorship that has concentration camps into investments in your country. Nothing comes for free.

If you can't trust China on a virus, how can you trust them on anything?

Let Europe and the rest of the world embrace China. The consequences will come later or are we enduring them presently?


Money talks. And if a developing country is looking for help right now with the pandemic - they might be tempted to ask China (under control) versus the US (definitely not).

For an idea of just how seriously China takes planning and outreach, have a look at the catchy promo they made for their most recent Five Year Plan:

https://youtu.be/LhLrHCKMqyM

And the current iteration:

https://youtu.be/HimcFOwwsAI
Last edited by Aaron747 on Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:01 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
The Americans have proven themselves unreliable and hostile. In 4 years we could be back to a Trump-like demagogue. The rest of the world should shun the US until they fix their internal issues.


Very right, the good old CCP which is the only choice left, is very reliable and nice. How is that virus going over there?

Don't come back begging the US to bail you out again (like you did twice in the last century) when you get the CCP or Putin on your neck.


Ah yes the good old fall back response from an American with no clue about world politics, lets tell them we saved their asses in WWII so they owe us. Get over it. It wasn't just you, and besides you only joined in after Pearl Habour.

Back on topic.

Europe doesn't need the US or China to lead. In fact it certainly doesn't need China to lead because that only leads down one road and the world doesn't need any more power given to them. They are doing what they want in the South China sea, building massive infrastructure in Africa and are making friends everywhere the US created enemies.

The thing the US needs to do is to be seen as the good guy again, and balance China along with Europe - politically and ideology wise.

Europe can stand by itself, economically and militarily, however a strong economic and interest relationship with the US is as important as ever. And that is what needs to improve under Biden.


Europe for sure can stand by itself. I would have hoped Trump pulls all troops from Europe. And heck, let NATO dissolve. Let Europe deal with Putin. Or better, let China help Europe deal with Putin once they pull back from Europe and NATO dissolves.

No you can't even defend yourself, you guys won't ever stop with your high quality of life and pay for your defense, whilst the US tax payer and other nations pay for your defense.

I just hope to see Europe calling the CCP for help when Putin is invading Estonia or any other Eastern European nation.

You need us, more than we ever need you.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:03 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Very right, the good old CCP which is the only choice left, is very reliable and nice. How is that virus going over there?

Don't come back begging the US to bail you out again (like you did twice in the last century) when you get the CCP or Putin on your neck.


Ah yes the good old fall back response from an American with no clue about world politics, lets tell them we saved their asses in WWII so they owe us. Get over it. It wasn't just you, and besides you only joined in after Pearl Habour.

Back on topic.

Europe doesn't need the US or China to lead. In fact it certainly doesn't need China to lead because that only leads down one road and the world doesn't need any more power given to them. They are doing what they want in the South China sea, building massive infrastructure in Africa and are making friends everywhere the US created enemies.

The thing the US needs to do is to be seen as the good guy again, and balance China along with Europe - politically and ideology wise.

Europe can stand by itself, economically and militarily, however a strong economic and interest relationship with the US is as important as ever. And that is what needs to improve under Biden.


Europe for sure can stand by itself. I would have hoped Trump pulls all troops from Europe. And heck, let NATO dissolve. Let Europe deal with Putin. Or better, let China help Europe deal with Putin once they pull back from Europe and NATO dissolves.

No you can't even defend yourself, you guys won't ever stop with your high quality of life and pay for your defense, whilst the US tax payer and other nations pay for your defense.

I just hope to see Europe calling the CCP for help when Putin is invading Estonia or any other Eastern European nation.

You need us, more than we ever need you.


Gobsmacking attitudes here...especially for a first or second generation American. Perhaps you forgot both Russia and the US border oceans on each side? Better get those maps out!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:08 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:

Ah yes the good old fall back response from an American with no clue about world politics, lets tell them we saved their asses in WWII so they owe us. Get over it. It wasn't just you, and besides you only joined in after Pearl Habour.

Back on topic.

Europe doesn't need the US or China to lead. In fact it certainly doesn't need China to lead because that only leads down one road and the world doesn't need any more power given to them. They are doing what they want in the South China sea, building massive infrastructure in Africa and are making friends everywhere the US created enemies.

The thing the US needs to do is to be seen as the good guy again, and balance China along with Europe - politically and ideology wise.

Europe can stand by itself, economically and militarily, however a strong economic and interest relationship with the US is as important as ever. And that is what needs to improve under Biden.


Europe for sure can stand by itself. I would have hoped Trump pulls all troops from Europe. And heck, let NATO dissolve. Let Europe deal with Putin. Or better, let China help Europe deal with Putin once they pull back from Europe and NATO dissolves.

No you can't even defend yourself, you guys won't ever stop with your high quality of life and pay for your defense, whilst the US tax payer and other nations pay for your defense.

I just hope to see Europe calling the CCP for help when Putin is invading Estonia or any other Eastern European nation.

You need us, more than we ever need you.


Gobsmacking attitudes here...especially for a first or second generation American. Perhaps you forgot both Russia and the US border oceans on each side? Better get those maps out!


I am all in with the America first policy of 45. That's the best this country has had since Reagan. We should focus on building the American economy, building our military against the real threat which is China.

Let Europe and the rest of the world sort their problems on their own. But unfortunately the 'conventional wisdom' is getting back to DC to implement America second. That's fine, lets see if in 2024 it stays.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
tommy1808
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:14 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Europe for sure can stand by itself. I would have hoped Trump pulls all troops from Europe. And heck, let NATO dissolve. Let Europe deal with Putin. Or better, let China help Europe deal with Putin once they pull back from Europe and NATO dissolves.

No you can't even defend yourself, you guys won't ever stop with your high quality of life and pay for your defense, whilst the US tax payer and other nations pay for your defense.

I just hope to see Europe calling the CCP for help when Putin is invading Estonia or any other Eastern European nation.

You need us, more than we ever need you.


Gobsmacking attitudes here...especially for a first or second generation American. Perhaps you forgot both Russia and the US border oceans on each side? Better get those maps out!


I am all in with the America first policy of 45. .


so... you are ok with pretending to do something against China, while in reality giving out exceptions like candy, while making darn sure that demand can not actually move away from China? Heck, he just rescued Huawei from his own sanctions ...

best regards
Thomas
Now
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
N867DA
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:16 pm

A strong United States that works closely with Europeans who are also capable of defending themselves is in the best interest for peace in the world. I trust this 'western coalition' far more than an ascendant Chinese world.

America First is code for putting America's reputation and power in the world on an ice floe and casting it off into a turbulent sea.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:16 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Europe for sure can stand by itself. I would have hoped Trump pulls all troops from Europe. And heck, let NATO dissolve. Let Europe deal with Putin. Or better, let China help Europe deal with Putin once they pull back from Europe and NATO dissolves.

No you can't even defend yourself, you guys won't ever stop with your high quality of life and pay for your defense, whilst the US tax payer and other nations pay for your defense.

I just hope to see Europe calling the CCP for help when Putin is invading Estonia or any other Eastern European nation.

You need us, more than we ever need you.


Gobsmacking attitudes here...especially for a first or second generation American. Perhaps you forgot both Russia and the US border oceans on each side? Better get those maps out!


I am all in with the America first policy of 45. That's the best this country has had since Reagan. We should focus on building the American economy, building our military against the real threat which is China.

Let Europe and the rest of the world sort their problems on their own. But unfortunately the 'conventional wisdom' is getting back to DC to implement America second. That's fine, lets see if in 2024 it stays.


The ‘conventional wisdom’ is how Lockheed-Martin and Boeing secure customers overseas. It’s how Coca-Cola operates in 200+ countries. It’s how Palo Alto Networks provides IT security for companies around the world. It’s how German and Japanese automakers employ Americans at factories in the US. Are you suggesting those things are negatives?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 387
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:18 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Europe for sure can stand by itself. I would have hoped Trump pulls all troops from Europe. And heck, let NATO dissolve. Let Europe deal with Putin. Or better, let China help Europe deal with Putin once they pull back from Europe and NATO dissolves.

No you can't even defend yourself, you guys won't ever stop with your high quality of life and pay for your defense, whilst the US tax payer and other nations pay for your defense.

I just hope to see Europe calling the CCP for help when Putin is invading Estonia or any other Eastern European nation.

You need us, more than we ever need you.


Wow, nice attitude in this day and age.

Doesn't Russia often break international airspace around Alaska? I read yesterday that a Russian warship threatened to ram a US ship in international waters. So actually I think we share the same problem with Putin. I'm sure you probably don't believe in his attempts to influence foreign elections, but in Europe is proven and fact so again there's another thing we have in common. So actually NATO is still important and our group of nations have a vested interest in keeping Putin in his box.

As for China, well frankly it's an obsurdity to suggest Europe would go to China and ask for Military help. Never going to happen.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:19 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Gobsmacking attitudes here...especially for a first or second generation American. Perhaps you forgot both Russia and the US border oceans on each side? Better get those maps out!


I am all in with the America first policy of 45. That's the best this country has had since Reagan. We should focus on building the American economy, building our military against the real threat which is China.

Let Europe and the rest of the world sort their problems on their own. But unfortunately the 'conventional wisdom' is getting back to DC to implement America second. That's fine, lets see if in 2024 it stays.


The ‘conventional wisdom’ is how Lockheed-Martin and Boeing secure customers overseas. It’s how Coca-Cola operates in 200+ countries. It’s how Palo Alto Networks provides IT security for companies around the world. It’s how German and Japanese automakers employ Americans at factories in the US. Are you suggesting those things are negatives?


Yeah, conventional wisdom got us into Vietnam, Iraq, let Putin invade Crimea, Syria, Yemen. Thousands of lives lost because of that.

Don't confuse American entrepreneurship with the way the American bureaucratic elite AKA "Deep state" has handled most of our foreign policy for generations. I happened to read your posts in the past saying how bad those things were managed. You changed your mind?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
N867DA
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:22 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Europe for sure can stand by itself. I would have hoped Trump pulls all troops from Europe. And heck, let NATO dissolve. Let Europe deal with Putin. Or better, let China help Europe deal with Putin once they pull back from Europe and NATO dissolves.

No you can't even defend yourself, you guys won't ever stop with your high quality of life and pay for your defense, whilst the US tax payer and other nations pay for your defense.

I just hope to see Europe calling the CCP for help when Putin is invading Estonia or any other Eastern European nation.

You need us, more than we ever need you.


Wow, nice attitude in this day and age.

Doesn't Russia often break international airspace around Alaska? I read yesterday that a Russian warship threatened to ram a US ship in international waters. So actually I think we share the same problem with Putin. I'm sure you probably don't believe in his attempts to influence foreign elections, but in Europe is proven and fact so again there's another thing we have in common. So actually NATO is still important and our group of nations have a vested interest in keeping Putin in his box.

As for China, well frankly it's an obsurdity to suggest Europe would go to China and ask for Military help. Never going to happen.


There is an implication that defense comes at the expense of domestic well-being, which is true...but the United States already spends more per capita on health and education than European countries. So clearly these domestic quality of life issues are due to internal mismanagement. I will leave it as an exercise to the reader on how American health and education system differs from Western Europe's systems.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1230
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:23 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Europe for sure can stand by itself. I would have hoped Trump pulls all troops from Europe. And heck, let NATO dissolve. Let Europe deal with Putin. Or better, let China help Europe deal with Putin once they pull back from Europe and NATO dissolves.

No you can't even defend yourself, you guys won't ever stop with your high quality of life and pay for your defense, whilst the US tax payer and other nations pay for your defense.

I just hope to see Europe calling the CCP for help when Putin is invading Estonia or any other Eastern European nation.

You need us, more than we ever need you.


Wow, nice attitude in this day and age.

Doesn't Russia often break international airspace around Alaska? I read yesterday that a Russian warship threatened to ram a US ship in international waters. So actually I think we share the same problem with Putin. I'm sure you probably don't believe in his attempts to influence foreign elections, but in Europe is proven and fact so again there's another thing we have in common. So actually NATO is still important and our group of nations have a vested interest in keeping Putin in his box.

As for China, well frankly it's an obsurdity to suggest Europe would go to China and ask for Military help. Never going to happen.


Yeah, the US should pay to protect our borders from Russia.

I as an American tax payer don't need to subsidize your high quality lifestyle of working 4 hours and spending the rest of your time at home thrashing the US, all the while you pay Putin for your energy.

No we don't need that, you can take care of yourself. Like I said you need us, more than we ever need you.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:26 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I am all in with the America first policy of 45. That's the best this country has had since Reagan. We should focus on building the American economy, building our military against the real threat which is China.

Let Europe and the rest of the world sort their problems on their own. But unfortunately the 'conventional wisdom' is getting back to DC to implement America second. That's fine, lets see if in 2024 it stays.


The ‘conventional wisdom’ is how Lockheed-Martin and Boeing secure customers overseas. It’s how Coca-Cola operates in 200+ countries. It’s how Palo Alto Networks provides IT security for companies around the world. It’s how German and Japanese automakers employ Americans at factories in the US. Are you suggesting those things are negatives?


Yeah, conventional wisdom got us into Vietnam, Iraq, let Putin invade Crimea, Syria, Yemen. Thousands of lives lost because of that.

Don't confuse American entrepreneurship with the way the American bureaucratic elite AKA "Deep state" has handled most of our foreign policy for generations. I happened to read your posts in the past saying how bad those things were managed. You changed your mind?


I have criticized unilateral actions that lack broad international or coalition support. I heavily criticized the Iraq campaign in 2002-3 for targeting the wrong country. That has nothing to do with your bizarre argument that we can develop the US economy by abandoning the established global business model.

The majority of the US diplomatic mission is fostering good relations and opportunities for commerce - not whatever you think ‘deep state’ is. You are confusing the State Department’s regular activities with analysts and strategists at CIA/DOD who make recommendations to various White House NSAs on regime changes and the like.

Putin did not invade Yemen BTW. Silly.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15468
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:44 pm

From in fact (but not by law) President Elect Biden yesterday messages were sent domestically and internationally that the USA:
Will be run by a President who will work with the world and will have good but firm relationships with other national leaders
Will have experienced, respected persons in key positions relating to international policies not yes men to Trump and a cross-section of Americans, not just a bunch of White males
Turn from the isolationist and hostile polices of Trump
Return to membership with international organizations like the WHO, UN,
Return to the table as to dealing with the Climate Change Crises (former Senator, Sec. of State, Kerry as a special envoy to Pres. Biden)
A balanced and more humane policy as to immigration including far less hostile as to the Islamic world, not having kids in cages or mass separations of minors
A reasonable policy with Iran, Russia, China, reversing Trump's unseasoned ones but not afraid to use appropriate sanctions
Intelligence and national security agencies to be respected, listened to and advise taken seriously by the President
Of course, we will continue to support, despite all their acts against human rights Israel, Saudi Arabia and other countries and limited in challenging those of China and other countries. Some of the proposed persons may face rejection by the Republican controlled Senate, some may have questionable histories outed or brought out again and some on the Progressive/Liberal side objecting as not closer to their views, having corporate connections.

.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:57 pm

keesje wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
I think that we need to know a lot more before we decide that we want to be led by the US.


The choice is pretty much going to be between China and the US anyway...


Not sure the EU states feel they have to make any choice, sorry.


Maybe it won't, but the problem is that the EU doesn't have anywhere near the clout, in either 'soft' or 'hard' power, than these 2 do.

The EU is still way too loose and lumpy to create a real 'World power' in its current state. It would have to unite more, integrate its military and speak with a single diplomatic voice for this to happen, and it's far from being the case.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
bennett123
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:00 pm

Having read a few comments from 'our friends across the pond', I can see why many do not want to be led by the US.

The possibility of another Trump in 2024 is just one more reason.

Not sure why you think everyone only works 4 hours.

Also you refer in one place to 'United States already spends more per capita on health and education than European countries. So clearly these domestic quality of life issues are due to internal mismanagement'. Surely best to measure outcomes than input.

On the issue of health, how much does a typical American pay for Health Insurance now?.

in another pace you refer to the high quality lifestyle in Europe.

So if we are spending less on health and education, how do we have this luxury lifestyle.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 387
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:33 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yeah, the US should pay to protect our borders from Russia. .


Right, but you don't want to work with us in combating any other problems they cause ALL of us? Because that's all that's being asked, to work together.


AirWorthy99 wrote:
I as an American tax payer don't need to subsidize your high quality lifestyle of working 4 hours and spending the rest of your time at home thrashing the US,


Well that's bollox, and rest assured you don't. Nobody works 4 hours. Maybe if you didn't spend so much on your military you could have more paid vacation, paid sick days, healthcare for all. All alternatively keep your military and charge a tiny, tiny bit more tax to those that are loaded. But oh no, tax is the devil. We as countries decide our priorities. You're free to do the same.

All the hundreds of EU troops that died in Iraq + Afghanistan. I guess you paid for them to work 4 hours too, because you know European countries don't have capable militaries.

I spent 5 years in part working with deployment of UK MOD equipment to Afghanistan. I guess I didn't do that either.



It's a discussion forum. You can say what you want (As you are). Some of it's uninformed drivel (from both sides), some of it's complete truths. And sometimes the truth hurts.

Nice that you say "high quality lifestyle" though. Yes in Europe we do have countries that rank highest in the world for quality of life, good you noticed.


AirWorthy99 wrote:
all the while you pay Putin for your energy.


The only legitimate comment you have made.


AirWorthy99 wrote:
No we don't need that, you can take care of yourself. Like I said you need us, more than we ever need you


Actually we do need each other - to work together. But it seems you have no interest in that.
 
Sokes
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:51 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
For an idea of just how seriously China takes planning and outreach, have a look at the catchy promo they made for their most recent Five Year Plan:

https://youtu.be/LhLrHCKMqyM

And the current iteration:

https://youtu.be/HimcFOwwsAI

I am positively surprised that they mention the Great Leap Forward as a failure. Can one see something like this also on channels for domestic consumption?

I don't see China as a future aggressor. Chinese politics the last decades is an incredible success story. And one child families don't go to wars.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
bgm
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:01 pm

Okie wrote:
Wow the Grand RE-OPENING of all the Benghazi Arms dealers is just 57 days away. Exciting times coming up. :roll:


Okie



Buttery males.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:04 pm

bgm wrote:
Okie wrote:
Wow the Grand RE-OPENING of all the Benghazi Arms dealers is just 57 days away. Exciting times coming up. :roll:


Okie



Buttery males.

There's gotta be a diagnosis for this in the DSM-5. Trump golfing hundreds of times while 50,000+ Benghazis of Americans are buried and the right is still frothing about Benghazi.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1935
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:20 pm

Sokes wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
For an idea of just how seriously China takes planning and outreach, have a look at the catchy promo they made for their most recent Five Year Plan:

https://youtu.be/LhLrHCKMqyM

And the current iteration:

https://youtu.be/HimcFOwwsAI

I am positively surprised that they mention the Great Leap Forward as a failure. Can one see something like this also on channels for domestic consumption?

I don't see China as a future aggressor. Chinese politics the last decades is an incredible success story. And one child families don't go to wars.


They won't have to go to war. China will just strangle anyone who gets in their way. Did we not get a sample of this during this pandemic? They make virtually everything in our critical supply chains and our stupid politicians have not learned this lesson which will only get worse under Biden. China is well on their way to owning the world or at least controlling it because the US and other countries ruling class likes the money they all make farming out everything to China. But don't worry Biden will turn everything around after that evil Trump is gone. John Kerry as climate change czar is a good start a guy with 6 houses, 12 cars, 2 yachts and a private jet. Democrats the party of hypocrisy. Trump might be an A hole but at least he doesn't pretend to be something he's not.
Last edited by stratosphere on Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bgm
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:27 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Trump might be an A hole but at least he doesn't pretend to be something he's not.


He pretends to be everything he's not: a leader, competent, strong, intelligent, wealthy... need I go on?
 
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keesje
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Re: America is back and ready to lead world, says Joe Biden

Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:27 pm

Francoflier wrote:
keesje wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

The choice is pretty much going to be between China and the US anyway...


Not sure the EU states feel they have to make any choice, sorry.


Maybe it won't, but the problem is that the EU doesn't have anywhere near the clout, in either 'soft' or 'hard' power, than these 2 do.

The EU is still way too loose and lumpy to create a real 'World power' in its current state. It would have to unite more, integrate its military and speak with a single diplomatic voice for this to happen, and it's far from being the case.


Europe has a long history of interfering in other countries, "projecting power", "policing", "liberating", "developing" or other euphemisms. Not sure it made the world a better place. Other nations, innocents paid a high price. Then war came into our own living places, that's why over time we got more careful, less nationalist, flag waving, patriotic, more balanced. No desire to be a "world power".

I think the world is changing and the traditional powerplay of the last 200, 300 years might be on it's way out. Everybody is communicating with everybody 24/7, is easily relocating globally, adopting.

No longer governments can fool their people, public perceptions with religions, ideologies, fears, good/bad guys simplifications like they used to, controlling newspapers, radio & tv.
Hiding behind old truths, events, believes, hero's they were taught themselves got harder. Biden is an old guy, hopefully he has good advisers.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway

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