Several sources in German, few minutes (30) old.
https://www.n-tv.de/sport/fussball/Diego-Maradona-ist-tot-article22193665.html
https://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussball/diego-maradona-ist-tot-a-a5a4bca4-239a-4319-a015-c0acdd5918ac

He was a brilliant football player, for few years the best. And he was a "highly interesting" person.
Rest in Peace

EDIT: seems he has died by heart attack
EDIT 2: Now also announced in German TV.

They said something about brain surgery but with all the cocaine he ingested his heart had to be in bad shape. In any event RIP to one of the greats.

Diego Maradona had serious health problems for years compounded by drug use and obesity, but still dying at 60 is too young to die.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/argentina-a ... dies-at-60
Of course he will be forever remembered in sports history for this 'hand of God' goal.
https://www.ibtimes.com/maradonas-legen ... od-3089216
Like many in the US, I did see him play on TV in 2 of the world cups he participated in, he was one of the greats of all time.

It's sad when anybody dies. Other-worldly talent, obviously. A lot of personal challenges. He struggled in his later years with cocaine addiction and obesity, which by themselves dramatically increase the risk of cardiac problems, and when put together make his death at 60 not a surprise, though still sad.

We can chose to remember him for the dark sides; the mafia connections, the coke and alcohol addiction, the tax evasions, the fall from grace. But we can also chose to remember him as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, football player to ever partake in the beautiful sport. He was the kind of player who made little kids want to play football, and made every single person on a stadium hold their breath and rise to their feet when he performed his magic.

I chose the latter.

Hand of God anyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona

Colorful football player, very talented but what a temperament. He will be remembered as a player, not the problems in his personal life.

He was a very good player, but his temper (a less polite person might call it thugery) on the pitch let him down at times - he was involved in several on-pitch mass brawls. But I rate him below Pele, Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.

Hand up (see what I did there?), I'm English so my opinion might be slightly biased because of *that* goal. However, even I'll admit his second in that game is probably the best World Cup goal of all time.

bennett123 wrote:

Hand of God anyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Maradona

God now has his hand back

scbriml wrote:

He was a very good player, but his temper (a less polite person might call it thugery) on the pitch let him down at times - he was involved in several on-pitch mass brawls. But I rate him below Pele, Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.

IMHO, he's the football player with the best skills: at times it simply looked like the ball was his magnet: the way it sticked to his body!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-1g_vSHpWA

and of course the famous warm-up intimidation at the UEFA Cup match against Bayern Munich... laces undone, btw!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7ZjU-6iSwk
as from 1:45

Garry Lineker experienced something similar too during a friendly match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKIFPaR_ZIo

scbriml wrote:

Hand up (see what I did there?), I'm English so my opinion might be slightly biased because of *that* goal. However, even I'll admit his second in that game is probably the best World Cup goal of all time.

Going through the international press, it's remarkable to see only the British press needs to whine about the hand of God... and all of them... on the front page...
Belgium played Argentina in the next match and got eliminated by Maradona too, but no such feeings here.
Maradona is probably the only player who's won the World Cup on his own, evidenced by that second goal against England.

A blatant hand ball and then having him rub our noses in it.

Then you wonder why people were angry.

Furthermore, we had been at war with them not long before.

sabenapilot wrote:

Going through the international press, it's remarkable to see only the British press needs to whine about the hand of God... and all of them... on the front page...

It seems the only thing Maradona has ever achieved that’s been newsworthy upon his death was the “hand of god” goal (the Brits never talk about how Shilton was our jumper by someone 20cm shorter though....) if you listen to the British press, which unfortunately make up the bulk of the international English language press.

Ignore the goal of the century, the player of the century award, forget his rise from the slums, disregard his assist for the winning goal in the WC final, forget how he got Real Madrid fans to applaud for him at El Classico, forget how he took the poor club of Napoli to Serie A victors in 87 and became the hero of Naples, forget a UEFA cup victory, forget some of his activist political views, ignore how other spoke of his talent, maybe even dismiss his off field controversies....

Nope, what has lead every UK press story of his death?
“Wah Wah Wah we should’ve won in 86!!!”

sabenapilot wrote:

Going through the international press, it's remarkable to see only the British press needs to whine about the hand of God... and all of them... on the front page...
Belgium played Argentina in the next match and got eliminated by Maradona too, but no such feeings here.

I don't remember the Argentina vs Belgium game; did he score a goal with his hand in that game too?

If not, what are you whining about?


FWIW the British press was fairly outraged when Thierry Henry pulled a similar stunt when France beat Ireland.

That's "Ireland" who suffered, not England, not even part of the UK. But that hasn't been forgotten either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Repu ... ll_matches

And what hurt even more is that Thierry Henry was massively respected (and loved) by British soccer fans. Much more so than Maradonna. And lusted after by quite a few ladies who weren't even that interested in football (Va-va-voom!)

So maybe it was also something to do with the British sense of fair-play?

(I will also agree that there are elements of the British press that pander to the lowest common denominator; I don't choose to read their rabid offerings)

p.s. I saw Maradona play on one of his very rare appearances in the UK, and yes, I joined in the chant of the day (not repeatable here on a.net). On that day I was more impressed with Michel Platini - and look how that turned out...

bennett123 wrote:

A blatant hand ball and then having him rub our noses in it.

Then you wonder why people were angry.

Furthermore, we had been at war with them not long before.

Rub your noses in it by embarrassing England’s defenders and scoring what is considered the best goal of all time 5 minutes later?

The Falklands/Malvinas was 40 years ago, let it go, I know it was probably England’s last chance to establish itself as a world power and fight a colonial war but it’s easier on your country if you accept your fate as a ostracised weakened nation post 2016.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

So maybe it was also something to do with the British sense of fair-play?

So fair that Beckham demonstrated it when he kicked the Argentine Captain in 98 and was red carded for it

So sportsmanlike.....

Interesting point that was made about the England side. Since 1966, which sides have they defeated in the knockout rounds of WC’s and Euros?
86: Paraguay
90: Belgium, Cameroon
96: Spain
02: Denmark
06: Ecuador
18: Colombia, Sweden

That’s it. In almost 60 years. Never beaten Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy, Argentina or Brazil.

England are a second rate football side that has been bested in recent tournaments by sides like Costa Rica and Iceland yet their press would have you believe the 3 Lions (pussies) are right up there with Pele’s 1970 Brazil or the Spanish 2010 squad.

Now back to talk about a real football hero who actually achieved success and can play.

I have no problem with England being beaten fair and square.

Incidentally, it was not the Hand of God, it was the hand of Maradona. It was bad enough him cheating, but to then basically thumb his nose at us is something else.

As for 'The Falklands/Malvinas was 40 years ago, let it go' has Argentina let it go yet?. Incidentally you might find the career of Ossie Ardilles interesting both pre and post 1982.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osvaldo_Ardiles

Or the career of Bert Trautman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Trautmann

For the record, Beckham was correctly red carded. Regardless of his subsequent BS about not knowing the guy was there.

bennett123 wrote:

A blatant hand ball and then having him rub our noses in it.

Then you wonder why people were angry.

Furthermore, we had been at war with them not long before.

As others have said, yes it was hands... it's also almost 35 years ago...
In a match in which Maradona went on to score THE World Championship goal of the century just 5 minutes later...
So what are they agry about exactly, today?

Maradona single handedly (sorry for the pun) lead Argentina to win the World Cup in '86 and -IMHO even more amazingly- lead it to a second final 4 years later with a very very poor team, yet all the British -and only the British- press can whine about today it how he unfairly opened the score in that match against England and how their side got eliminated...
England would have been eliminated with or without that goal, so put it in some perspective, especially on a day like this!

But people got it: there's yet another war involved, so somehow no rational thinking can thus be expected from the English.
See that's exaclty the probem with English society: stuck in the past forever, vehemently holding on to some victory from an era long gone by until all that's left is resentment from seeing those glorious days are over and the adversary of then is today far more successful than England is: whether it's just footbal, economy or global politics and the adversary is Argentina, France, Germany or Spain: it's always the same resentment showing. It's pathetic, especially over a sobering event like this.

Firstly, not only did he cheat, he then stuck two fingers up.

Secondly, the Falklands War was 40 years ago, but the country that needs to come to terms with that is not the UK.

The links to Ardilles and Truatman actually show that the UK did move on.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

Going through the international press, it's remarkable to see only the British press needs to whine about the hand of God... and all of them... on the front page...
Belgium played Argentina in the next match and got eliminated by Maradona too, but no such feeings here.

I don't remember the Argentina vs Belgium game; did he score a goal with his hand in that game too?

If not, what are you whining about?

Incidentally, there was a hands ball in that game too, but no: Maradona scored 2 times... with his feet only.

If you want so see the highlights of that great semi-final again with an absolutely incredible Maradona against Belgium:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIXKJdgZNTY
(that second goal.... !!!!
... and that absolute miss by Valdano near the end after a huge run by Maradona)

Don't know what the English are whining about for some 35 years already, because Maradona costed Belgium the Word Cup in 1986...

First he cheated, then he basically stuck two fingers up and said so what.

Perhaps Belgium likes that type of behaviour.

As you can see from the links I posted, Ardillies returned to UK football after the Falklands Wars.

Incidentally, it may be unwise to speak of the Falklands in Argentina. Not sure that they have got over it.

As for what the rest of the world thinks, I doubt that we will be too concerned.

bennett123 wrote:

First he cheated, then he basically stuck two fingers up and said so what.

Oh, God! How dare he!
In an interview with the BBC Maradona answered "to score with my right hand too" when asked what he'd like to do in another match against England.
Don't take it too seriously: he's just teasing you because the silly way in which you all keep reacting to it!
Nobody understands this childish attitude, really.

Yes, it was hands and he got away with it (not his fault, is it?), so what?
It didn't change the result of that match and it certaintly didn't cost England the World Cup: Belgium would have sent you home anyway in the next round, just like we did in Russia (twice even).

sabenapilot wrote:

IMHO, he's the football player with the best skills: at times it simply looked like the ball was his magnet: the way it sticked to his body!

Pele was better as he could win the ball in the air and play with his back to the goal. Maradona had to have the ball on his foot facing the goal but he we incredible.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

So fair that Beckham demonstrated it when he kicked the Argentine Captain in 98 and was red carded for it

So sportsmanlike.....

Not sure what your point is, Beckham was punished, unlike Maradona. He was also reviled in the press and by the public. It took him a couple of years to win everyone round.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

England are a second rate football side that has been bested in recent tournaments by sides like Costa Rica and Iceland yet their press would have you believe the 3 Lions (pussies) are right up there with Pele’s 1970 Brazil or the Spanish 2010 squad.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

The Falklands/Malvinas was 40 years ago, let it go, I know it was probably England’s last chance to establish itself as a world power and fight a colonial war but it’s easier on your country if you accept your fate as a ostracised weakened nation post 2016.

Your shoulders must be tired with the weight of those chips.

sabenapilot wrote:

It didn't change the result of that match and it certaintly didn't cost England the World Cup

An illegal goal resulting in a 2-1 win didn't change the result? It would seem to be the very definition of a match changing event.

NIKV69 wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

IMHO, he's the football player with the best skills: at times it simply looked like the ball was his magnet: the way it sticked to his body!

Pele was better as he could win the ball in the air and play with his back to the goal. Maradona had to have the ball on his foot facing the goal but he we incredible.

You might be right on that one.
Never seen him play unfortunately, so I can't tell for sure: always difficult to compare.

What I do know it that CR7 should not even be in the shortlist mentioned above!
There are quite a few players on the footbal pitches of Europe today which are much much better than him, let alone have him show up in 'all time' list!
Him making it to that kind of shortlists just shows the impact of instagram and social media: be good looking, post pictures of your sixpack to show off, score some nice goals, and sign a multibillion transfer deal and you'll suddenly find yourself amongst the greatest players?! Never been word champion, never been decisive, always bitching when a bad pass is given, ... that's not a genius but a real drama queen playing football.
(rant mode off)

scbriml wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

It didn't change the result of that match and it certaintly didn't cost England the World Cup

An illegal goal resulting in a 2-1 win didn't change the result? It would seem to be the very definition of a match changing event.

It still wouldn't have handed victory to England, so no, it's not.
Besides, if you truely think England had a team remotely able to make it to the final of that world cup by its own merits, let alone win it, I'm afraid you're more than just a little bit biassed.

For chrissake, someone lend me a hand....

sabenapilot wrote:

Don't know what the English are whining about for some 35 years already,

Why exactly are we celebrating Maradona? Would it be for some things he did around 30-40 years ago? This event fits that time-frame too.
Or are you suggesting we dismiss ALL that Maradona was, because it was so long ago? Or do you just want to remember the bits of history that fit your agenda?
He was both good and bad. And on balance the good outweighed the bad, which is why we (myself included) are celebrating him. But he wasn't a god.

sabenapilot wrote:

Interesting point that was made about the England side. Since 1966, which sides have they defeated in the knockout rounds of WC’s and Euros?

And this is relevant because....?
Or are you just being unpleasant for the sake of it?

sabenapilot wrote:

England would have been eliminated with or without that goal,

Most likely yes. Either in that match (after extra time/penalties), or in a subsequent match. England typically underperform, and most of us know & accept this. Having said that, Lineker was on fire that year, so anything was possible.
You already know my views on the noisier sections of the British press; try reading the better quality journalists.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

So fair that Beckham demonstrated it when he kicked the Argentine Captain in 98 and was red carded for it

Aw c'mon, that was just a tickle that only resulted in the Argentine captain falling over. A very very stupid trip that rightly got Beckham punished, but I doubt it caused as much as a bruise. Worse things than that happen on the pitch, even today. {Caveat; no, I am not saying he didn't deserve being punished - just put it in some context.}

scbriml wrote:

Not sure what your point is, Beckham was punished, unlike Maradona.

... who was awarded hero status in Argentina, and not for the second goal.

scbriml wrote:

He {Beckham} was also reviled in the press and by the public.

... reviled by the British press, and by the British public.
Some here need to take a moment to think about that!

sierrakilo44 wrote:

England are a second rate football side that has been bested in recent tournaments by sides like Costa Rica and Iceland yet their press would have you believe the 3 Lions (pussies) are right up there with Pele’s 1970 Brazil or the Spanish 2010 squad.

You don't actually read much British press do you?

sierrakilo44 wrote:

The Falklands/Malvinas was 40 years ago, let it go, I know it was probably England’s last chance to establish itself as a world power and fight a colonial war but it’s easier on your country if you accept your fate as a ostracised weakened nation post 2016.

Why, what happened in 2016? Oh yes, Trump got elected.
So... who is it exactly who became an "ostracised weakened nation post 2016"?

scbriml wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

It didn't change the result of that match and it certaintly didn't cost England the World Cup

An illegal goal resulting in a 2-1 win didn't change the result? It would seem to be the very definition of a match changing event.

I think he must be talking about a different match!

NIKV69 wrote:

Pele was better as he could win the ball in the air and play with his back to the goal. Maradona had to have the ball on his foot facing the goal but he we incredible.

And all those times Maradona chested the ball down, turned, and terrorized defenses were just my imagination? Please, just say you prefer Pelé, and leave it at that.

sabenapilot wrote:

It still wouldn't have handed victory to England, so no, it's not.

I never claimed that England would have won, but a draw at full time is a different result to an illegally scored one goal win. A completely different game ensues if the goal is disallowed. I didn’t think the concept was that difficult to understand.

Somewhere in a parallel universe - Maradona’s handball goal is disallowed, Maradona flies into a rage, pushes the ref and is sent off...

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

You don't actually read much British press do you?

I do. Before every tournament the UK press talk up the 3 pussies as if they’re world beaters. Afterwards they go into a meltdown when they’re faced with the reality of their incompetence. They kick and scream and then forget the lessons in 2 years when they start talking up the 3 pussies again.

The theme song of your country “Football’s coming home”, for real - how arrogant for a team which has achieved very, very little on the international stage. The true home of football should be in Rio de Janiero, Berlin or Rome first.

Back to the topic of the thread. One thing that isn’t talked about much with Maradona was his very apparent and upfront socialist politics. Being born into poverty, choosing the working class poor club of Napoli, friends with Castro, Chavez, Morales, openly condemning British imperialism in Falklands/Malvinas and Ireland. Speaking out against US imperialism in Iraq and Latin America and Israeli occupation of Palestine. The Che Guevara tattoo. He was a deeper, more principled man than the caricature of a drug using cheat the UK press portrayed him as.

Back to the topic.

It was still hand ball and it was still cheating.

Personally I have no issue with some of his politics.

Quite how you apparently support the Argentine junta invading the Falklands despite the population making it very plain that they wanted to remain British.

Wonder how impressed the Generals were with his Che Guevara tattoo.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

You don't actually read much British press do you?

I do. Before every tournament the UK press talk up the 3 pussies as if they’re world beaters. Afterwards they go into a meltdown when they’re faced with the reality of their incompetence. They kick and scream and then forget the lessons in 2 years when they start talking up the 3 pussies again.

The theme song of your country “Football’s coming home”, for real - how arrogant for a team which has achieved very, very little on the international stage. The true home of football should be in Rio de Janiero, Berlin or Rome first.

Even more obvious than your lack of credibility regarding the British press, is your woeful lack of knowledge regarding football itself.
And a strange obsession with pussies.

The true home of football is indeed England, home to the oldest clubs, the oldest league, the oldest international matches, the place where the rules of the game were codified, and the original International Football Association Board.
These days IFAB has it's headquarters in Zurich, not far from FIFA, but the make-up of that board tells you all you need to know. (Four members from FIFA, and another four from the United Kingdom - one each from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland). Isn't strange how the rules of the game, applied worldwide, are decided by a committee that meet either in Zurich, or more often at Taplow, Bagshot, Aberdeen, Auchterarder, Cardiff, or Holywood (Belfast)?

And you call that "arrogance"? For some reason the word "ignorance" springs into my mind.

The English football league system, in strength and depth, is the envy of the world. And the Premiership™ regularly outperforms the other big hitters (the German Bundesliga™, Italian Serie A™ and Spanish La Liga™) as to exactly which is the most popular, draws the most viewers, and yields the highest revenue.

Now, if you would like to argue that the true home of the World Cup itself is Rio de Janeiro, you might have a case.
I suggest a plan whereby if one nation wins it three times, they get to keep the trophy.

You could also suggest that the tournament should take place in Rio every year. Good luck with that!

Meanwhile the team that you argue has "achieved very, very little on the international stage" is currently ranked 4th in the World, and 6th in the FIFA World Cup All-Time table. The second stat is particularly impressive for a country that didn't even compete in the 1930, 1934 or 1938 Finals, placing it at a disadvantage compared to all five of the teams ranked above them. (To be absolutely fair, Germany could not compete in 1950, so they also suffered, but to a lesser extent)

If 4th in the World is "very very little", I'll take it, any day of the week!

Educate yourself!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... tion_Board
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_ ... _World_Cup

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

The English football league system, in strength and depth, is the envy of the world. And the Premiership™ regularly outperforms the other big hitters

I’m talking about the national team, not the national league. The only reason why the Premier League is half decent is there are so many good Foreign players who play at each club. Who’s the best players in the EPL at the moment? De Bruyne, Salah, van Dijk, Mane, Aguero, Aubameyang, Kante, Silva. Maybe throw a Kane or a Sterling in there on a good day, but overall it’s the foreign players who provide the stars of the premier league.

When the English players in the EPL have their foreign stars taken away from them and are put in the national team they fall apart.

In terms of who’s most successful, If you look at all European Cup and Champions League winners since it was inaugurated in 1955 you’ll see English teams rank only second with 13 wins, behind Spanish teams with 18 wins. If you make it Finals appearances English clubs drop to 3rd with 22 appearances behind Spanish clubs 29, Italian teams with 28.

If you look at clubs which have qualified for the Champions League in it’s current Era (Post 92), even though the English press claims it’s League has the most diverse range of good teams they actually rank equal 4th in number of clubs who’ve qualified for tournament alongside Italy, and behind Spain, Germany and France.

When it comes to semi final appearances the highest an English club can come is 5th (Man U).

as to exactly which is the most popular, draws the most viewers, and yields the highest revenue.

I, and most people, care more about who wins tournaments rather than who has more fat slobs watch them on TV.

I suggest a plan whereby if one nation wins it three times, they get to keep the trophy.

Great, Brazil, Germany, Italy. 3 deserving football powerhouses deserve a permanent trophy.

You could also suggest that the tournament should take place in Rio every year. Good luck with that!

Much prefer to party on the beaches of Ipanema than have bricks thrown at me from a bunch of hooligans in North London.

Meanwhile the team that you argue has "achieved very, very little on the international stage" is currently ranked 4th in the World, and 6th in the FIFA World Cup All-Time table.

The FIFA rankings are meaningless. England ranked above Spain despite Spain winning more major tournaments (3 European Championships). England ranked above the Dutch despite making it to 3 Cup finals, above Hungary and Czech Republic despite them making it to 2 Cup finals. And the biggest stupidity England being above Uruguay despite Uruguay WINNING 2 World Cups! What a stupid list, I’ll go on tournament success anyday.

When it comes to overall who’s the best 3 it’s easy:

Nations: Brazil, Italy, Germany
Clubs: Real Madrid, AC Milan, Bayern Munich
Players: Pele, Maradona, and number 3 is tough could go to Messi, Ronaldo (Portuguese one), Ronaldo (Brazilian one), Cruyff, Di Stefano, Zidane......

But definitely no chance of any English national team, club or player being there.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Much prefer to party on the beaches of Ipanema than have bricks thrown at me from a bunch of hooligans in North London.

Have you spent much time in Brazil? I would choose it over Tottenham every day of the week, but it wouldn't be due to a feeling of personal safety.

LOL @ this thread.

Here you have many from a certain country still who can't get over the Hand of God. The same people then tell the people from another country of not getting over a lost war and ask why this is. And viceversa. Therein lies the biggest irony. The two situations are two sides of the same coin. The answer to "why" lies within the feelings about the Hand of God, and the feelings about the Falkland Islands: it was all unfair, and to top it it lead to a defeat. People usually cannot get over defeats when they think they occur under unfair circumstances. It explains both the English and their feelings about Maradona, and the Argentines and their feelings about the Falklands.

As for Maradona, I would make the argument that Maradona and Jordan ~ Messi and Lebron James recapitulate their respective eras. They actually have many things in common. The former duo are said to have taken their teams and will them to championships, both are seen as arrogant and at times mean-spirited. They lived at the dawn of the global athlete. It was the time when television finally reached around the world even into the depths of the poorest regions, and cable television was taking off in the USA, Argentina, and elsewhere so by the late 80s hours of television in fledgling sports channels had to be filled by something, of course Maradona and Jordan would get lion shares of that time. Messi and James come from the era of the online buddy culture: they want to have as many friends as possible, and don't really enjoy taking over games because they are far more democratic. They do take over when they have to, but they far better prefer getting their teammates involved. Both James and Messi have been accused by people and pundits in their respective countries of needing "tailor made teams" in order to win (Barcelona, Miami Heat, Lakers), that they cannot will teams to victory by themselves like Jordan and Maradona (although James did finally do just that with Cleveland, Messi is perhaps still is in debt there). So I think Maradona was a product of his era, and a bit of a Marilyn / Elvis personage, all three become insanely famous and rich very young, were surrounded by dubious people who took advantage of them, and all of that probably explains why all three ended up in eerily similar endings to their troubled but flamboyant lives. And just like Monroe is a cult even today, and Elvis has Graceland, so will Maradona have the same mystique for decades to come.

Derico wrote:

Here you have many from a certain country still who can't get over the Hand of God. The same people then tell the people from another country of not getting over a lost war and ask why this is. And viceversa. Therein lies the biggest irony. The two situations are two sides of the same coin. The answer to "why" lies within the feelings about the Hand of God, and the feelings about the Falkland Islands: it was all unfair, and to top it it lead to a defeat. People usually cannot get over defeats when they think they occur under unfair circumstances. It explains both the English and their feelings about Maradona, and the Argentines and their feelings about the Falklands.

Yes and no. I remember the Hand of God like it was yesterday but it doesn't totally cloud my judgement of who he was and what he did for football. He was an absolute genius the likes of which we rarely see. He did, however, cheat in the tournament that was his first showpiece to the world. To mention that doesn't mean I'm bitter about it, it's just one fact our of many in his life.

Another poster mentioned that this particular goal made no difference, but that's not how things work in the real world. If I walked into a hospital and stabbed someone who was already on their deathbed, "well they were about to die anyway" wouldn't particularly help my defense. Talking of defense, England could have had 20 defenders and Maradona would still have scored what is almost certainly the best individual goal ever. I can mention both goals in one paragraph without being bitter about anything.

A certain individual cheated, boasted about his cheating and gave us two fingers.

Then you expect us to like him.

Forget it.

Frankly I couldn't give two fifths of frack all if the English likes or loathes Diego Armando Maradona.

To the rest of the football loving world he will always be remembered as one of the greatest, and perhaps the greatest. Not for his antics off the pitch, not for the times he played somewhat less than gentlemanly, and certainly not for an inconsequential goal by hand against an inferior team.

No, it's those magical moments when he stunned the crowd and made the difference between a losing and a winning team.

Doubt that anyone will be too concerned.

bennett123 wrote:

A certain individual cheated, boasted about his cheating and gave us two fingers.

Then you expect us to like him.

Forget it.

I don't think anyone outside irrational fanatics would demand that expectation. You have an opinion to which everyone is rightfully granted, thus different opinions here. It's normal I still think.

Oh boy, arguing about illegitimate goals in knock out World Cup matches. Surely England has the clear moral high ground here...

As far as Maradona, I never liked the man but he was undeniably one of the greats. I’d be curious to see how his career trajectory could have gone if training and athlete health was focused on like it is today. The habits players of the era had makes you wonder how they even managed a full 90 minutes

RIP Maradona.

I don't watch much football (and was too young then anyway, and I think my parents didn't even have a TV) so I can't say much about him, neither good nor bad.

I find it sad though that his death leads to 3 days of mourning in Argentina, it really gives the impression that the country is in bad shape...

FGITD : all players were in the same boat though, so it might actually have helped Maradona shine.

sabenapilot wrote:

See that's exaclty the probem with English society: stuck in the past forever, vehemently holding on to some victory from an era long gone by until all that's left is resentment from seeing those glorious days are over and the adversary of then is today far more successful than England is: whether it's just footbal, economy or global politics and the adversary is Argentina, France, Germany or Spain: it's always the same resentment showing. It's pathetic, especially over a sobering event like this.

Wow, simply wow... such a "deep", scathing analysis of English society just because someone doesn't share your teenage fanboy view of some football player? Yes, a football player, a guy paid to kick a ball.
Sobering event? Gimme a break. If anything is seriously wrong with this world, it's how relatively little attention get people, who truly contribute something positive to mankind, as opposed to human wrecks like Maradona.

Gone viral a video taken of the evening over Argentina, where they claim the number 10 can be seen running in the sky, with the Argentine football jersey, and Maradona's dark hair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gda0OtIS00

Pareidolia or something more?

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

And all those times Maradona chested the ball down, turned, and terrorized defenses were just my imagination? Please, just say you prefer Pelé, and leave it at that.

Has nothing to do with who I prefer, Pele was a much better all around player. You look at players like Baggio, Messi etc they were not designed to win the ball with their head or pass etc they were designed to be in the middle with the ball on their foot.

FGITD wrote:

Oh boy, arguing about illegitimate goals in knock out World Cup matches. Surely England has the clear moral high ground here...

As far as Maradona, I never liked the man but he was undeniably one of the greats. I’d be curious to see how his career trajectory could have gone if training and athlete health was focused on like it is today. The habits players of the era had makes you wonder how they even managed a full 90 minutes

I am not discussing the hand ball by choice because it's been beaten to death and if anything soccer needs to get into the current time period with it's officiating since it lags badly. As for England having moral high ground, maybe if Rooney played better in the WC.