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ArchGuy1
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What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:08 am

How would the United States and the world have been different if John McCain had won the Republican Nomination and Election in 2000? How would events like 9/11, the War on Terror, and Hurricane Katrina have been handled? What type of policies would McCain have had since he was a moderate Republican and supported bipartisanism? How would same sex marriage, climate change, and economic policies for example have been handled? Also, do you think Donald Trump would ever have become President under this scanerio? What do you all think?
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:04 pm

Probably wouldn’t have bothered with Iraq, or only made precision strikes there and instead focused on Afghanistan and wiping out Al Qaeda. So the US would have saved itself around $1T. That money could have potentially been invested into infrastructure back home in the US boosting the US economy during the GFC. Other than that not much else would likely have changed. He might have been tougher on China earlier. I would imagine a McCain presidency would have led to less partisan politics so Obama might not have come to power and subsequently Trump wouldn’t either.
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ArchGuy1
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:16 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Probably wouldn’t have bothered with Iraq, or only made precision strikes there and instead focused on Afghanistan and wiping out Al Qaeda. So the US would have saved itself around $1T. That money could have potentially been invested into infrastructure back home in the US boosting the US economy during the GFC. Other than that not much else would likely have changed. He might have been tougher on China earlier. I would imagine a McCain presidency would have led to less partisan politics so Obama might not have come to power and subsequently Trump wouldn’t either.

This means the Great Recession might not have taken place and could very well have led to Hillary Clinton being president from 2009 until 2017. Also, a more competent Republican might be in office and COVID-19 would likely have not become a global pandemic.
 
wingman
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:01 pm

The biggest impact would’ve been Sarah Palin becoming Vice President. I think that would’ve had the dubious effect of numbing Americans to the presence of true bat shit craziness in a position of leadership. Who knows how that would’ve impacted our experience with Trump. It’s very possible he might’ve appeared almost sane in comparison and gone another four years. I’m curious to see what the GOP produces next. I kinda like Giuliani-Don Jr. in 24. Think about that, shooting baby elephants high on cocaine and sweating hair dye would’ve been unthinkable not so long ago. Not anymore man. I think John McCain will always deserve some of the credit.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:02 pm

wingman wrote:
The biggest impact would’ve been Sarah Palin becoming Vice President. I think that would’ve had the dubious effect of numbing Americans to the presence of true bat shit craziness in a position of leadership. Who knows how that would’ve impacted our experience with Trump. It’s very possible he might’ve appeared almost sane in comparison and gone another four years. I’m curious to see what the GOP produces next. I kinda like Giuliani-Don Jr. in 24. Think about that, shooting baby elephants high on cocaine and sweating hair dye would’ve been unthinkable not so long ago. Not anymore man. I think John McCain will always deserve some of the credit.

Sarah Palin was McCain running mate in 2008 and who would McCain have chosen in 2000?
 
ltbewr
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:04 pm

Likely he would have likely listened to and taken some immediate action on the intel reports of August 2001 warning of a terror attack on the USA, unlike Bush, so possibly 9/11 might not have taken place, in turn no war in Iraq or Afghanistan..
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:47 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Likely he would have likely listened to and taken some immediate action on the intel reports of August 2001 warning of a terror attack on the USA, unlike Bush, so possibly 9/11 might not have taken place, in turn no war in Iraq or Afghanistan..

This could mean the Twin Towers still standing today and Donald Trump never becoming President. Also, the pandemic prevention team would likely remain intact and therefore, COVID-19 not becoming a global pandemic.
 
WIederling
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:45 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
This means the Great Recession might not have taken place and could very well have led to Hillary Clinton being president from 2009 until 2017. Also, a more competent Republican might be in office and COVID-19 would likely have not become a global pandemic.


The growing housing bubble and associated distribution/offshoring of low quality "structured equity" was a thing already warned
about in the middle to late 90ties.

Entering into various conflicts allowed to hide that for a time and replace much more bad equity with good money from abroad.
Without 911 there would have been need for conjuring up some other conflict.
i.e. who is POTUS is cosmetic.
Murphy is an optimist
 
tommy1808
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:50 am

Zkpilot wrote:
Probably wouldn’t have bothered with Iraq, or only made precision strikes there and instead focused on Afghanistan and wiping out Al Qaeda. So the US would have saved itself around $1T.


Plus probably trying the offered extradition proceedings instead of the "we don´t give a damn about law and order, we want OBL and his marry man right now!" attitude, while collecting enough Intel to know where and what to bomb when that went, likely, nowhere.

A trillion USD saved, and a more successful campaign.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Sokes
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:22 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Also, a more competent Republican might be in office and COVID-19 would likely have not become a global pandemic.

Nobody bites?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
Sokes
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:39 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Likely he would have likely listened to and taken some immediate action on the intel reports of August 2001 warning of a terror attack on the USA, unlike Bush, so possibly 9/11 might not have taken place, in turn no war in Iraq or Afghanistan..

Or there may not have been Saudi terrorists from the beginning.
Anyway the military industrial complex may have had a lot less profits.
If this money had to be invested, would there have been a financial crisis?

If no the real poor of the world are lucky that Bush won. It was the interest free money that improved their lives.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
winginit
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:23 pm

Presumably no Citizens United ruling, which would fundamentally have politics in a much better place today.
 
phluser
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:48 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Probably wouldn’t have bothered with Iraq, or only made precision strikes there and instead focused on Afghanistan and wiping out Al Qaeda. So the US would have saved itself around $1T. That money could have potentially been invested into infrastructure back home in the US boosting the US economy during the GFC. Other than that not much else would likely have changed. He might have been tougher on China earlier. I would imagine a McCain presidency would have led to less partisan politics so Obama might not have come to power and subsequently Trump wouldn’t either.


Not sure why you think Obama in 2008 wouldn't have become President but Hillary would have in 2008 if McCain had won in 2000. Oprah was a big booster to Obama and not Hillary in 2007/2008 when her popular talk show had a lot of influence. She didn't publicly support Biden or Trump this year though, as she might be still friends with Trump or at least not willing to wager a public feud with Trump. After Obama, she supported Stacey Abrams but wasn't successful in helping her win.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:20 pm

I'll go in a different direction and say that McCain was not particularly apologetic about the Iraq invasion. I think it would have gone similarly, assuming McCain got himself involved with the same lowlifes who architected the invasion.

McCain, unlike Bush, was a military combat veteran. But he was fairly hawkish. I don't think anyone could have blundered the Iraq War quite as badly as Bush did. McCain likely would not have trusted the sources right away. He knew the swamp is filled with operatives who usually tell lies. The key moral question of the age was, should all Arab people pay the price for 9/11 as an ethnicity, or should the actual people involved pay instead.

On September 11, 2007 (6 years after 9/11), McCain said, "The important thing about September 11 is that it not be repeated. If we leave Iraq, then it will be repeated," he said. "I can't think of a better way to remember and revere their memories and prevent further tragedies and attacks on the United States than to rally support" to stay and win the war in Iraq."

So, McCain was an insane mass murderer. An animal. He couldn't stop killing people with a certain skin color and religious background, because he thought they looked similar to people who had been involved in 9/11.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:16 am

LCDFlight wrote:
I'll go in a different direction and say that McCain was not particularly apologetic about the Iraq invasion. I think it would have gone similarly, assuming McCain got himself involved with the same lowlifes who architected the invasion.

McCain, unlike Bush, was a military combat veteran. But he was fairly hawkish. I don't think anyone could have blundered the Iraq War quite as badly as Bush did. McCain likely would not have trusted the sources right away. He knew the swamp is filled with operatives who usually tell lies. The key moral question of the age was, should all Arab people pay the price for 9/11 as an ethnicity, or should the actual people involved pay instead.

On September 11, 2007 (6 years after 9/11), McCain said, "The important thing about September 11 is that it not be repeated. If we leave Iraq, then it will be repeated," he said. "I can't think of a better way to remember and revere their memories and prevent further tragedies and attacks on the United States than to rally support" to stay and win the war in Iraq."

So, McCain was an insane mass murderer. An animal. He couldn't stop killing people with a certain skin color and religious background, because he thought they looked similar to people who had been involved in 9/11.

What are you smoking?
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:41 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Probably wouldn’t have bothered with Iraq, or only made precision strikes there and instead focused on Afghanistan and wiping out Al Qaeda. So the US would have saved itself around $1T. That money could have potentially been invested into infrastructure back home in the US boosting the US economy during the GFC. Other than that not much else would likely have changed. He might have been tougher on China earlier. I would imagine a McCain presidency would have led to less partisan politics so Obama might not have come to power and subsequently Trump wouldn’t either.

This means the Great Recession might not have taken place and could very well have led to Hillary Clinton being president from 2009 until 2017. Also, a more competent Republican might be in office and COVID-19 would likely have not become a global pandemic.


Great Recession? Do you mean the 2008 banking crisis? In that case, the foundation was laid by Bill Clinton by relaxing bank laws in the '90-ish.

COVID-19 had become a global pandemic in either case, nothing to do with the US. The effect on the US - records are broken daily again - is another matter, that is indeed due to the current administration.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:52 am

LCDFlight wrote:
He knew the swamp is filled with operatives who usually tell lies.


oh wow, don't know how to react to such a completely unnuanced statement like that. The only thing which was worth reacting to is above. This is simply beside the truth. The CIA got the info from Germany with a clear note saying that they do not believe the source and there was no cooperating evidence. The Bush administration wanted to move against Iraq, even before the 11th September 2001 terrorist attack. The Bush administration pushed it, not the CIA. The Bush administration lied, not the operatives.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
DTVG
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:44 pm

I don't know why some people see McCain as some saint. Sure, I respect him for what happened to him as a soldier in Vietnam, but overall I see him as a hawkish guy who would have started a lot of those US interventions that end up failing. As the general public wanted some kind of payback after 9/11, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd had launched some kind of "liberation" of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya or whatever (as the average American doesn't even know or care where those countries lie, he probably could have just chosen one).

I also find it quite funny that even after the failed Iraq campaign, he continued advocating regime change in Libya or Syria, you know with those "moderate" rebels. He was also a big friend with the Saudis and other good old dictators in the ME region. You know those guys that either finance or contribute to the rise of islamism and terrorists (directly or indirectly).
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:24 am

wingman wrote:
The biggest impact would’ve been Sarah Palin becoming Vice President. I think that would’ve had the dubious effect of numbing Americans to the presence of true bat shit craziness in a position of leadership. Who knows how that would’ve impacted our experience with Trump. It’s very possible he might’ve appeared almost sane in comparison and gone another four years. I’m curious to see what the GOP produces next. I kinda like Giuliani-Don Jr. in 24. Think about that, shooting baby elephants high on cocaine and sweating hair dye would’ve been unthinkable not so long ago. Not anymore man. I think John McCain will always deserve some of the credit.


Sarah Palin wasn't on the map in 2000. She was elected Governor of Alaska in 2006. McCain would have picked someone else in 2000 to be VP.
 
Redd
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:42 pm

Sokes wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Also, a more competent Republican might be in office and COVID-19 would likely have not become a global pandemic.

Nobody bites?


Not worth it, where do you start? :rotfl:
 
stratosphere
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:44 am

Dutchy wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
He knew the swamp is filled with operatives who usually tell lies.


oh wow, don't know how to react to such a completely unnuanced statement like that. The only thing which was worth reacting to is above. This is simply beside the truth. The CIA got the info from Germany with a clear note saying that they do not believe the source and there was no cooperating evidence. The Bush administration wanted to move against Iraq, even before the 11th September 2001 terrorist attack. The Bush administration pushed it, not the CIA. The Bush administration lied, not the operatives.


W also wanted Saddams head since he had put a bounty on daddy Bush after Gulf war 1 Desert Storm. I almost wish Gore had got the nod I often wonder how he would have handled 9/11. We know already how Bush jacked it up .
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:55 am

stratosphere wrote:
I almost wish Gore had got the nod I often wonder how he would have handled 9/11.


It’s Gore not McCain who should be the topic of the alternate history President for this thread. If it hadn’t been for the electoral college again over the popular vote, purging of black voters from Florida rolls, the Palm Beach butterfly ballot, not ordering a statewide recount, the refusal to count hanging and dimpled chads (clear votes for Gore) and the refusal of 2 Supreme Court justices (Thomas and Scalia) that has Bush campaign links.....

So what if the rightful 2000 election winner had been in place?

We definitely wouldn’t have had a war in Iraq with Dick Cheney nowhere near the White House. The Afghan war then would’ve been over quicker and Al Qaeda would’ve been disrupted sooner without the Bush/Cheney links to the Saudis getting in the way. As well as stabilised relations with Iran sooner.

And the biggest advantage of Gore in the White House. The world would be taking far more serious efforts to combat climate change.
 
emperortk
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:34 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
I almost wish Gore had got the nod I often wonder how he would have handled 9/11.


It’s Gore not McCain who should be the topic of the alternate history President for this thread. If it hadn’t been for the electoral college again over the popular vote, purging of black voters from Florida rolls, the Palm Beach butterfly ballot, not ordering a statewide recount, the refusal to count hanging and dimpled chads (clear votes for Gore) and the refusal of 2 Supreme Court justices (Thomas and Scalia) that has Bush campaign links.....

So what if the rightful 2000 election winner had been in place?

We definitely wouldn’t have had a war in Iraq with Dick Cheney nowhere near the White House. The Afghan war then would’ve been over quicker and Al Qaeda would’ve been disrupted sooner without the Bush/Cheney links to the Saudis getting in the way. As well as stabilised relations with Iran sooner.

And the biggest advantage of Gore in the White House. The world would be taking far more serious efforts to combat climate change.


We all know Bush won the election fair and square: 5 to 4.
 
phluser
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:52 pm

Gore probably would have won in 2000 with more popular vote total, including in states like Florida, if Bill Clinton hadn't had his sex scandals. Clinton would have then helped be an asset in his Gore's campaign prior to the election. The Democrats as an entire party were smeared as lacking morals, just by association to Bill Clinton's affairs.
 
luckyone
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:54 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
He knew the swamp is filled with operatives who usually tell lies.


oh wow, don't know how to react to such a completely unnuanced statement like that. The only thing which was worth reacting to is above. This is simply beside the truth. The CIA got the info from Germany with a clear note saying that they do not believe the source and there was no cooperating evidence. The Bush administration wanted to move against Iraq, even before the 11th September 2001 terrorist attack. The Bush administration pushed it, not the CIA. The Bush administration lied, not the operatives.


W also wanted Saddams head since he had put a bounty on daddy Bush after Gulf war 1 Desert Storm. I almost wish Gore had got the nod I often wonder how he would have handled 9/11. We know already how Bush jacked it up .

I’ve never bought that stupid story. Daddy Bush had a lot of enemies both public and in the shadows due to his time in the CIA. The Iraqi government had been effectively neutered and had enemies on all sides. Dubya went after Iraq in an attempt to distract from 9-11 and the fact that OBL was nowhere to be found and we as a country were braying for blood, and just maybe to repay some family-owed political capital by doling out government contracts.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:11 pm

luckyone wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

oh wow, don't know how to react to such a completely unnuanced statement like that. The only thing which was worth reacting to is above. This is simply beside the truth. The CIA got the info from Germany with a clear note saying that they do not believe the source and there was no cooperating evidence. The Bush administration wanted to move against Iraq, even before the 11th September 2001 terrorist attack. The Bush administration pushed it, not the CIA. The Bush administration lied, not the operatives.


W also wanted Saddams head since he had put a bounty on daddy Bush after Gulf war 1 Desert Storm. I almost wish Gore had got the nod I often wonder how he would have handled 9/11. We know already how Bush jacked it up .

I’ve never bought that stupid story. Daddy Bush had a lot of enemies both public and in the shadows due to his time in the CIA. The Iraqi government had been effectively neutered and had enemies on all sides. Dubya went after Iraq in an attempt to distract from 9-11 and the fact that OBL was nowhere to be found and we as a country were braying for blood, and just maybe to repay some family-owed political capital by doling out government contracts.


Exactly, I am saying this and it comes out like a total wingnut.

Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to take care of some family business and kill thousands of brown skinned people, because America wanted to. They had nothing to do with 9/11. And everyone knew that, unless you really believed Bush's flimsy case. I want to believe McCain would have done better (the topic of this thread), but he utterly failed to repudiate his important role in the killings. In 2007, he vowed to continue the war if elected president in 2008, as he repeated old ethnic slurs about 9/11 connections in Iraq.

If Gore had won, I think he would not have invaded Iraq. He had more sense and dignity than that. But then, how much can we really give the DNC, who ran Iraq War authorizers as nominees in 2016 and 2020? They were neck deep in it too.
 
luckyone
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:46 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
luckyone wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

W also wanted Saddams head since he had put a bounty on daddy Bush after Gulf war 1 Desert Storm. I almost wish Gore had got the nod I often wonder how he would have handled 9/11. We know already how Bush jacked it up .

I’ve never bought that stupid story. Daddy Bush had a lot of enemies both public and in the shadows due to his time in the CIA. The Iraqi government had been effectively neutered and had enemies on all sides. Dubya went after Iraq in an attempt to distract from 9-11 and the fact that OBL was nowhere to be found and we as a country were braying for blood, and just maybe to repay some family-owed political capital by doling out government contracts.


Exactly, I am saying this and it comes out like a total wingnut.

Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to take care of some family business and kill thousands of brown skinned people, because America wanted to. They had nothing to do with 9/11. And everyone knew that, unless you really believed Bush's flimsy case. I want to believe McCain would have done better (the topic of this thread), but he utterly failed to repudiate his important role in the killings. In 2007, he vowed to continue the war if elected president in 2008, as he repeated old ethnic slurs about 9/11 connections in Iraq.

If Gore had won, I think he would not have invaded Iraq. He had more sense and dignity than that. But then, how much can we really give the DNC, who ran Iraq War authorizers as nominees in 2016 and 2020? They were neck deep in it too.

Anyone who is objective would note that we were going to do something in the aftermath of 9-11—precisely what was immaterial.
 
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DL717
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Re: What if John McCain Became President in 2000

Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:42 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
I almost wish Gore had got the nod I often wonder how he would have handled 9/11.


It’s Gore not McCain who should be the topic of the alternate history President for this thread. If it hadn’t been for the electoral college again over the popular vote, purging of black voters from Florida rolls, the Palm Beach butterfly ballot, not ordering a statewide recount, the refusal to count hanging and dimpled chads (clear votes for Gore) and the refusal of 2 Supreme Court justices (Thomas and Scalia) that has Bush campaign links.....

So what if the rightful 2000 election winner had been in place?

We definitely wouldn’t have had a war in Iraq with Dick Cheney nowhere near the White House. The Afghan war then would’ve been over quicker and Al Qaeda would’ve been disrupted sooner without the Bush/Cheney links to the Saudis getting in the way. As well as stabilised relations with Iran sooner.

And the biggest advantage of Gore in the White House. The world would be taking far more serious efforts to combat climate change.


emperortk wrote:
We all know Bush won the election fair and square: 5 to 4.



Yawn.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/31/politics ... index.html
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.

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