Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
stratosphere
Topic Author
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

DR Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:56 pm

Ok I know we covered this in a thread some time ago if I am not mistaken. But I believe it being in the recent news with the Wall Street journal op-ed piece by Joseph Epstein. Now yes technically she reserves the right to use the title of Doctor since she does hold and EdD doctorate of education. But her insistence on people and the media using the doctor title in addressing her I do find annoying. Most PhD's and EdD's do not insist they be introduced as Dr some news outlets will introduce someone as Dr to other than MD doctorate holders some won't. Me personally it has nothing to do with her being a female as much as liberals love to label dissenters that way. I just think the title of Dr needs to be pretty much reserved for doctors of medicine to avoid confusion. If you remember the movie Airport when Dean Martin says after an explosion and injured people on the plane that the manifest says there are several doctors aboard the captain says lets hope they're not dentists. A lot of news outlets did not introduce Ben Carson as doctor even though is a renowned neurosurgeon and certainly put more sweat into his education and training than Jill Biden could ever dream of.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/14/media/wa ... index.html
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:59 pm

So Gorka can go and fornicate himself as well then..
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11230
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:11 pm

If someone earned a doctorate and requests that their earned title be used with them, that is not a big deal. Just do it. Why is this even a problem?

And to mock someone about it is just dumb, weak in fact, I mean seriously why is someone even trying to make an issue? "Haha, lets laugh at someone, make fun of them." That is all that is. And people who do that are not worth the time.

We may find it annoying, but when someone asks that you address them however they want to be addressed it is respectful to do so. Especially if they worked hard for it and earned it. In this case I think the only reason people will actively intentionally not address her as she has requested is out of lack of respect. So fine you do you. Be disrespectful.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
bennett123
Posts: 10732
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:13 pm

Anyone holding a PhD is entitled to be addressed as Dr.

Not sure why this is a problem for Joseph Epstein.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13126
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:17 pm

A Doctorate is for someone who has done the work in their field of study. Whether they prefer Dr in their title or not, they have earned it from their peers.


The first doctors were actually doctors of Religion.

So to be clear. Joeseph Epstein is out of his league, as is the OP in asserting that a doctor does not get to claim the title.


However there is an assertion that when a doctor is asked for when someone is ill, it will be a medical doctor.

Just because the uninformed don't like people that are more educated than them, does not mean that they can't use the title of doctor.

After all they don't call it a doctorate degree for nothing when you get advanced education.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11230
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:20 pm

From an old WSJ posting they note that though they don't use it for people elected in politics they will use Dr. for those with Ph.D.s, if the individual desires it.:

https://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/05/ ... mr-not-dr/

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1780
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:23 pm

Growing up in grade school, there were some teachers and principals who had PhDs. We had to address them as "Dr." Of course this continued through university as many professors had PhDs. IMO no big deal here and surprised to see this op-ed published in something like the WSJ.
Last edited by phatfarmlines on Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 942
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:23 pm

You have to draw the line somewhere, and I draw the line at flimsy online or mail order programs, and then people rolling around saying "call me doctor." Yes, this happens.

U of Delaware is a respected university, and if she earned a doctorate there, that is a legitimate credential, as much as any doctorate. Now, Ed.D are known for being one of the less rigorous doctorate degrees, but it's still an important field, and that is the terminal degree in that field.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13126
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:25 pm

vrbarreto wrote:
This is just a case of where human codpiece Tucker Carlson leads.. others follow...



It's the fox news way . Attack someone for something credible to make it a bad thing.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:29 pm

They call Melania Trump a prostitute, no big deal. They say Jill is not a doctor, all hell breaks loose.

Reality is anyone, absolutely anyone can earn a PhD on anything. If I go ahead and get a PhD so that everyone calls me doctor, that speaks volumes about your confidence level.

Jill Biden is not a medical Doctor, and that should be said, every time she wants people to address her as such.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11230
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:36 pm

This is just a tempest in a teapot.

Someone wanted to make some noise, get people riled up and Mr. Epstein did that the easiest way he could. Anyone can do it, he did nothing special or hard, nor did he make some kind of ground breaking "Oh WOW!!" point.

You can do it too. At your office or home or during your next online meeting, just point out someone, anyone really, and say something dumb about them that is kinda insulting but kinda accurate and voila! You will get people going after you and people up in arms for your saying something stupid and some will even kind of agree with you.

See? Simple minded people can have fun at the expense of others that have done nothing that calls for it. That is all this is, stupid people doing stupid things.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
M564038
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:40 pm

Working in higher education, I absolutely refuse to use collegaues’ titles. I would positively laugh anyone in the face that use it or demand it’s use by anyone else.

We need to know somenone’s formal education and real world experience when hiring for positions and negotiating wages.
After the new european system, real-world experience and merits are weighed heavier and is more precisely defined against academic titles than before.

In no other way is it apropriate. Everyone and their mother has a phd anyway.


«Doctor» is a nickname children use for someone that works in a hospital as a......Nevermind I guess grown ups use that word in english! Haha!
Other places MDs have a different title, and might not be so easily confused with other phds.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13392
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:55 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Jill Biden is not a medical Doctor, and that should be said, every time she wants people to address her as such.


At my last employers in our German factory we had several doctors of electrical engineering, they preferred to be addressed as herr doctor, they spent as much time getting there qualifications as any medical doctor so it’s there right to be call by that title.

What’s interesting is in NZ medical doctors once they specialise often prefer to be called Mr again.
Last edited by Kiwirob on Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:00 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Jill Biden is not a medical Doctor, and that should be said, every time she wants people to address her as such.


At my last employers in our German factory we had several doctors of electrical engineering, they preferred to be addressed as herr doctor, they spent as much time getting there qualifications as any medical doctor so it’s there right to be call by that title.

What’s inserted it for in NZ is medical doctors once they specialise often prefer to be called Mr again.


Same in the UK.. When you pass your royal college of surgeons exam you go back to Mr or Miss.. And that is the title they prefer..
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:14 pm

M564038 wrote:
Working in higher education, I absolutely refuse to use collegaues’ titles. I would positively laugh anyone in the face that use it or demand it’s use by anyone else.

We need to know somenone’s formal education and real world experience when hiring for positions and negotiating wages.
After the new european system, real-world experience and merits are weighed heavier and is more precisely defined against academic titles than before.

In no other way is it apropriate. Everyone and their mother has a phd anyway.


«Doctor» is a nickname children use for someone that works in a hospital as a......Nevermind I guess grown ups use that word in english! Haha!
Other places MDs have a different title, and might not be so easily confused with other phds.


I have lived abroad, and outside of the US is very common for example in Latin America for certain professionals even with only a bachelors degree to be called a certain way. I don't see why is that so important, I tend to believe that's related to past obsession with royal titles and such.

Serves as a way to tell someone else you are smarter than them perhaps? to project highness of some sort. Like I said, shows a lot about their confidence level when they have to be called a certain way just because it places you on a unique category of the rest of humans. I could care less if Michael wants to be called Dr. Michael because he did a PhD on some useless degree.

I think its best to separate us mortals between those who can save your life and the others who can't. Doctors for those who hold a medical degree. Which BTW, is one of the most honorables career an individual can do.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1176
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:22 pm

vrbarreto wrote:

Same in the UK.. When you pass your royal college of surgeons exam you go back to Mr or Miss.. And that is the title they prefer..


Not always clear cut.

I used to live next door to a well regarded vascular surgeon. For us and his closes friends, it was always Doc/Dr Downing. His fellow surgeons referred to him as Mr Downing whilst the rest of the hospital used Prof(essor) Downing. He isn't one to give a toss though.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13392
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:33 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Working in higher education, I absolutely refuse to use collegaues’ titles. I would positively laugh anyone in the face that use it or demand it’s use by anyone else.

We need to know somenone’s formal education and real world experience when hiring for positions and negotiating wages.
After the new european system, real-world experience and merits are weighed heavier and is more precisely defined against academic titles than before.

In no other way is it apropriate. Everyone and their mother has a phd anyway.


«Doctor» is a nickname children use for someone that works in a hospital as a......Nevermind I guess grown ups use that word in english! Haha!
Other places MDs have a different title, and might not be so easily confused with other phds.


I have lived abroad, and outside of the US is very common for example in Latin America for certain professionals even with only a bachelors degree to be called a certain way. I don't see why is that so important, I tend to believe that's related to past obsession with royal titles and such.

Serves as a way to tell someone else you are smarter than them perhaps? to project highness of some sort. Like I said, shows a lot about their confidence level when they have to be called a certain way just because it places you on a unique category of the rest of humans. I could care less if Michael wants to be called Dr. Michael because he did a PhD on some useless degree.

I think its best to separate us mortals between those who can save your life and the others who can't. Doctors for those who hold a medical degree. Which BTW, is one of the most honorables career an individual can do.


In the US dentists and chiropractors use the title doctor, neither of them can save a life, how do you deal with that?

I have a relative who is an Earl, in NZ nobody cares, even in the UK it’s not a big deal anymore. In the US people fawn all over him, using the title is a guarantee of a room upgrade, upgraded flights.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 12341
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:45 pm

Strange it is such an uproar in the US. In the Netherlands, it is quite hard to get a PhD compared to the US. I know several. None of them are actually like to be called Doctor. It is moot anyway, except in an academic setting where it is actually relevant.

But if someone would insist to be addressed as a Doctor, sure why not, the proper way to address them is: "Weledelzeergeleerde heer/vrouwe" --> Nobel very well educated sir/madame.
From now on, I would like to be addressed as: "Weledelgestrenge heer" :lol:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 12341
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:47 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Jill Biden is not a medical Doctor, and that should be said, every time she wants people to address her as such.


At my last employers in our German factory we had several doctors of electrical engineering, they preferred to be addressed as herr doctor,


Yeah, that is a thing in Germany, they seem to love their titles. So much so that there are quite a few scandals in German politics that politicians didn't quite do the work to earn their title in a proper way.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
M564038
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:52 pm

They do! I have met germans that get furious when I ignore their titles. Haha!
Your name is Professor? Weird!

Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Jill Biden is not a medical Doctor, and that should be said, every time she wants people to address her as such.


At my last employers in our German factory we had several doctors of electrical engineering, they preferred to be addressed as herr doctor,


Yeah, that is a thing in Germany, they seem to love their titles. So much so that there are quite a few scandals in German politics that politicians didn't quite do the work to earn their title in a proper way.
Last edited by M564038 on Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
stratosphere
Topic Author
Posts: 1982
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:53 pm

vrbarreto wrote:
So Gorka can go and fornicate himself as well then..


Actually yes it applies to him too not just Jill Biden..
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11230
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:54 pm

What about Dr. Seuss? :spin:

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14070
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
They call Melania Trump a prostitute, no big deal. They say Jill is not a doctor, all hell breaks loose .


One of these things is not like the other - do you know why?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11230
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:01 pm

And Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.?

This is about respect. Plain and simple. That is all it is about. And this woman is about to become "the wife of the President of the United States" aka The First Lady. I suspect she just also would like it to be known that she is not just "on the arm of her man". She has her own life and accomplishments and is an independent person, with knowledge and goals and experience.

I just don't see the need to not be simply respectful of someone's wishes when they have both earned it and it is not some far-out, abnormal request. This is harmless. (Like the earth, well mostly harmless.)

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:23 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
They call Melania Trump a prostitute, no big deal. They say Jill is not a doctor, all hell breaks loose .


One of these things is not like the other - do you know why?


Yeah, compare the outrage from when it was implied that Melania was a prostitute, and the outrage for someone writing an Op-Ed saying that Jill is not a doctor.

Good times ahead.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1871
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:27 pm

I don't remember this being an issue for Dr. Rice or Dr. Kissinger.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14215
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:40 pm

A doctor of words. Media is short stroking it to make her seem more important than she is since she will have to be more involved since her husband is not with it often.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
chimborazo
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:56 pm

Half way over the Atlantic, cabin crew announcement: “ladies and gentlemen, if there is a doctor on board, please make yourself known to the cabin crew.”

“Can ai ‘elp..?” Says Valentino Rossi as he wanders into the galley...

A dentist would be better than a lay-person. A nurse would be much better than a dentist... a doctor would be better still.

Who cares if someone wants to be called doctor in whatever field... if you don’t like it, change the etiquette/rules.

It’s pretty obvious to most people that when asked “is there a doctor...?” It’s going to be a request for a medical doctor.

My girlfriend is a medical doctor but you wouldn’t know it without getting to know her well. She would always respond if medical assistance was needed... but she would take a moment before responding to a request for one (unless she saw someone obviously in need of assistance). It may be that there is someone “more suitable” before she sticks her hand up- for example an A&E doctor or paramedic who would be more suitable to lead an emergency intervention.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13126
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:21 pm

Here is the real answer, When most people need "Doctor" they are looking for someone that has studied the human anatomy, and worked on enough human anatomy that they are absolutely experts in that field.
These Doctors have , in the United states ,a M.D. Or Medical Doctorate, or a D.O. Osteopathic Doctor. This is usually what you see when you look them up in the hospital org chart. They prefer to go by Doctors, as they have earned that title in their field.

Doctorates are awarded in many different fields of study though, and include years of practice, research and teaching. These are given the degree of PhD (Doctor of Philosophy). These doctors affect our daily lives through many other areas, but they still worked hard to earn that degree, and have obtained, and in theory are able to use that knowledge in their field to pass on the knowledge.

if we want to redefine the degrees, then fine, but all of them have a valid doctorate degree.

This is why some discerning people will say , "I need a Medical Doctor"
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15616
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:23 pm

The social conventions in the USA generally see a person using the honorific and educational level title of Doctor or in print the abbreviation of Dr. in front of their name has a doctorate in human medicine. With Jill Biden, where it is a non-medical doctorate in Education, it might be more appropriate to use after her name the abbreviation DEd. or Ed.D. Technically a graduate of a law school, her husband, former Vice President and President-Elect Joe Biden is could also use the post-name honorific J.D. for Juris Doctorate or Doctor of Laws. Same could be said by former First Lady Michelle Obama, who holds a Juris Doctorate. Sometimes other professions, including Education professionals will use the Dr. title as Jill Biden uses within their profession.
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 4029
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:03 pm

Tugger wrote:
What about Dr. Seuss? :spin:

Tugg

Or Doctor Dre' ?
 
YYZatcboy
Posts: 1196
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:15 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:22 pm

Women in general have a much harder time being given their proper academic titles, even for MD/DO medical doctors. This could also play a part in the reaction to the use of Dr. Biden's title as first lady.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
DH1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30/50/80 717 727 735/6/7/8/9 744 762/3 77E/W 788/789 E40/75/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150
J/S DH8D 736/7/8 763
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1013
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:47 pm

This is one of those subjects where the discussion tells you more about the person against than the person for. She earned a qualification that gives her the right to be called a Doctor because.... she IS a doctor. If some have a hard time understanding that there are doctors in fields outside of medicine, or doctors that are not male, well, who is the peasant? That the WSJ would run such a piece is surprising.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14089
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:56 pm

In Germany everyone important is a Doctor it seems.

In France it's basically like the US, only for medical doctors. My father holds a PhD (Doctorat in French) and nobody ever called him "Docteur". Professeur yes when he was teaching.

I don't even call my Doctor docteur, and don't call lawyers "Maître" or priests "My father" either. Let's not even start on nobility...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18552
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:05 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
They call Melania Trump a prostitute, no big deal. They say Jill is not a doctor, all hell breaks loose.

Reality is anyone, absolutely anyone can earn a PhD on anything. If I go ahead and get a PhD so that everyone calls me doctor, that speaks volumes about your confidence level.

Jill Biden is not a medical Doctor, and that should be said, every time she wants people to address her as such.

She is a prostitute. :confused: Or "model" if you will. It's certainly a title she has earned, and not necessarily one to be ashamed of...she's the only living Trump who has actually worked for the money.

Tugger wrote:
From an old WSJ posting they note that though they don't use it for people elected in politics they will use Dr. for those with Ph.D.s, if the individual desires it.:

https://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/05/ ... mr-not-dr/

Tugg

I would point out no one on the left doubted Carson's medical resume--they are just bewildered how an allegedly talented neurosurgeon could be so dumb, in an administration where the bar was already so low.

cledaybuck wrote:
I don't remember this being an issue for Dr. Rice or Dr. Kissinger.

It's a mystery! :rotfl:

NIKV69 wrote:
A doctor of words. Media is short stroking it to make her seem more important than she is since she will have to be more involved since her husband is not with it often.

Let's be crystal clear: the WSJ and conservatives made it an issue, and then whined like little snowflakes when it went over like a lead balloon. Why even invent the issue in the first place? Has Jill--or anyone--demanded the title be used before this dumb oped?

Virtual737 wrote:
This is one of those subjects where the discussion tells you more about the person against than the person for. She earned a qualification that gives her the right to be called a Doctor because.... she IS a doctor. If some have a hard time understanding that there are doctors in fields outside of medicine, or doctors that are not male, well, who is the peasant? That the WSJ would run such a piece is surprising.

Not surprising. Have you read the WSJ op ed page lately? It makes Judge Jeanine Box O'Wine seem grounded in reality.

Aesma wrote:
In Germany everyone important is a Doctor it seems.

In France it's basically like the US, only for medical doctors. My father holds a PhD (Doctorat in French) and nobody ever called him "Docteur". Professeur yes when he was teaching.

I don't even call my Doctor docteur, and don't call lawyers "Maître" or priests "My father" either. Let's not even start on nobility...

It just depends on the person. I can't imagine Jill Biden cares but I also know of people in Latin America who will hangup if you don't call them the equivalent of engineer...
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Newark727
Posts: 2327
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:18 am

Why stop at Jill Biden? The credentials of one Dr. Pepper have gone unexamined for far too long...
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14070
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:20 am

I would also note nobody anywhere who enjoys adventure flicks ever objected to Indy being addressed as ‘Dr. Jones’.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LittleFokker
Posts: 1389
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:25 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:24 am

Rand Paul claims to be a Dr though he couldn't become board certified by the AMA and created his own bullshit agency to certify him.

If someone puts in the work and study required to earn a doctoral degree, no matter what the field is, he or she deserves to be identified as "Dr."
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18552
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:24 am

stratosphere wrote:
vrbarreto wrote:
So Gorka can go and fornicate himself as well then..


Actually yes it applies to him too not just Jill Biden..


vrbarreto wrote:
So Gorka can go and fornicate himself as well then..


Pretty sure Gorka's "doctorate" *is* fraudulent, which is surprising to no one

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-aca ... -1.5465216
I don't take responsibility at all
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2229
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:34 am

I can see why she would like some recognition of her educational background because she doesn't want to be pigeonholed as merely being the First Lady, that she's riding off her husband's coattails.

Honestly, the only reason why WSJ is making a fuss over this is because of her husband's political affiliations.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14070
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:35 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
vrbarreto wrote:
So Gorka can go and fornicate himself as well then..


Actually yes it applies to him too not just Jill Biden..


vrbarreto wrote:
So Gorka can go and fornicate himself as well then..


Pretty sure Gorka's "doctorate" *is* fraudulent, which is surprising to no one

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-aca ... -1.5465216


His education is as fraudulent as Melania's 'Einstein' visa was.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
FGITD
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:48 am

Newark727 wrote:
Why stop at Jill Biden? The credentials of one Dr. Pepper have gone unexamined for far too long...



I also have heard rumors that his cousin Sgt Pepper has never actually served in the armed forces
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23483
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:58 am

FGITD wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Why stop at Jill Biden? The credentials of one Dr. Pepper have gone unexamined for far too long...



I also have heard rumors that his cousin Sgt Pepper has never actually served in the armed forces


Cap'n Crunch is actually a commander, per his stripes.

If someone has worked and studies hard in their field and passes all the required exams and puts in the time and earns it, why not call them doctor? Not sure why that is a big deal.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
johns624
Posts: 3485
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:04 am

I worked for a large, urban school system and most of the Ed.ds and Ph.ds wanted to be called "doctor". My view was that if they couldn't stitch me up or diagnose me, they weren't a doctor.
 
bgm
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:14 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Like I said, shows a lot about their confidence level when they have to be called a certain way just because it places you on a unique category of the rest of humans. I could care less if Michael wants to be called Dr. Michael because he did a PhD on some useless degree.


Your irrational reaction to it seems to speak even more volumes about your own confidence levels and insecurities if it truly bothers you that much.

So, do you only approve of Doctor in medical fields. Do you approve of military rank titles? How about Professor? Sir/Madam? Mr/Mrs? Religious titles? Where is the line drawn between what is and isn't acceptable to you?
 
M564038
Posts: 587
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:32 am

I don't share AW99's political opinions one bit, but I think all of those are uneccesary, unless it is needed to establishand identify responibility(and thus the potential of authority) effectively in a certain situation or organization, such as a millitary command chain or something like the Captain of an airliner during the flight although the prescence of an identifying uniform makes it rather uneccesary.

I also find the use of titles such as "officer" towards police or "your honour" towards judges in court to be quite terrible for the same reason. It becomes un-earned respect towards the person rather than their role which it is otherwise clear they are representing. .
Sir/Mr/Madam likewise. I find it completely bonkers. Would never use it. I have talked to our goddamn king without refering to title.
I am in fact a Professor. Foreign students keep wanting to call me that. I tell them not to. If I need to identify my role somehow, I call myself a teacher. That is my occupation. It is my role in that particular situation. That will do.
I get paid for my qualifications. I have no need for a title. It doesn't describe me as a person, it describes my role. It is childish posing to use it together with my name.

bgm wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Like I said, shows a lot about their confidence level when they have to be called a certain way just because it places you on a unique category of the rest of humans. I could care less if Michael wants to be called Dr. Michael because he did a PhD on some useless degree.


Your irrational reaction to it seems to speak even more volumes about your own confidence levels and insecurities if it truly bothers you that much.

So, do you only approve of Doctor in medical fields. Do you approve of military rank titles? How about Professor? Sir/Madam? Mr/Mrs? Religious titles? Where is the line drawn between what is and isn't acceptable to you?
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1013
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:14 am

Out of interest, the person who wrote the WSJ article states that he doesn't have a doctorate but taught at university for 30 years. He also bashes honorary doctorates (which Dr Biden's isn't) and then mentions that he has one. Further, he scorns that Dr Biden earned the doctorate at the age of 55 rather than respecting the ability to study and learn well into middle age. He then rambles on more and more about the dubious awarding of honorary doctorates, again which he has but she hasn't.

It's as if he was already a bit pissed that people not as worthy as him are being awarded honorary doctorates and then, to complete the slide into the abyss, along comes this "woman" who has a real one.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14433
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:04 am

M564038 wrote:
They do! I have met germans that get furious when I ignore their titles. Haha!
Your name is Professor? Weird!

Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

At my last employers in our German factory we had several doctors of electrical engineering, they preferred to be addressed as herr doctor,


Yeah, that is a thing in Germany, they seem to love their titles. So much so that there are quite a few scandals in German politics that politicians didn't quite do the work to earn their title in a proper way.


Getting a Phd here is effectively a name change, Jill Bidens ID/Passport could literally say "Dr. Biden, Jill." as the Dr. becomes a name-add-on. If you are a Professor "Professor" becomes part of your name if you want it or not. Until the 1960´s even Dr. was part of your name when you had the title, so your Wife/Husband would be Mr./Ms. Dr. lastname, even if they don´t hold a Phd themselfes.

Law enforcement officers have been disciplined for not calling a Dr. Doctor during traffic stops and such, as they have to address you by the name on your ID/Passport. As soon as they know your name, they have to use your name ....remember "Honor" is a tangible thing here that can be injured the same way a body can, and addressing someone wrong shows a lack of respect, and hence is an attack on someones honor.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6300
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

Re: "DR" Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:23 am

bennett123 wrote:
Anyone holding a PhD is entitled to be addressed as Dr.


I do have a Ph.D. in soft studies and would not dare to use it outside of professional/academic setting, which I am no longer active anyway. The only real doctor with my name and surname is my dad, a medical doctor.
I am an oddball though.
No other nations in Europe are so obsessed with professional and academic titles as Czechs, Germans, Austrians and Italians.
 
N757ST
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: DR Jill Biden

Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:02 am

I find requesting someone call you doctor tells me a lot more about that person then anything. My sister is a medical doctor, aside from ceremonies or in official press releases etc, not one person that knows her calls her Dr XXX, she doesn’t want to be referred to that way. If someone wants to be called doctor with a doctor of education, it’s certainly their right, but I think we’re witnessing ego more then anything. Having an entire op’ed written about it is overkill though. Yes, she is a doctor, if she wants to be called that, fine. I am friends with a lot of doctors, I call them Gary, Cathy, and Dan.

Not exactly the same thing, but my anecdotal experience with this is I can tell you who’s the ultimate jerk pilot if they request you call them “captain dbag”, even worse when they request those outside of aviation call then “captain dbag”. Who cares!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: casinterest, Cubsrule, Dutchy, Elkadad313, emperortk, Francoflier, SWA TPA, windy95 and 79 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos