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Braybuddy
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Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:49 pm

I don't normally involve myself in US political threads, but this came out of the blue:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... er-lining/

So over a quarter of the LGBTQ community voted for Donald Trump. I must be out of the loop. Can any US members explain this?
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:55 pm

A couple different things:

1. There's a lot of bluster from the religious right flank, but at the local level we pretty much are able to get done what we need to get done, and recent SCOTUS decisions have reinforced that. That means that instead of focusing on the fact that I have to file my taxes separately from the breeders, now I'm worried about my financial situation in a different way. We're not literally fighting for equality under the law anymore, and as such you'll start to see some diversification politically as other things take priority.
2. I'll give him credit where it's due. Trump hasn't called for an overturn of Obergfell. Make no mistake he's aligned with some people who have, but he never made that part of his platform, unlike say Ted Cruz.
3. Being gay (or whatever identifier one wishes to lose, honestly I lose track) is neither a virtue nor a flaw. It's a trait. And individually we are just as likely to have differences of views that any other group. Some of us are certainly saints, and some sociopaths. A lot of us have money because we don't have the tendency to accidentally find ourselves pregnant.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:09 pm

More people voted this year than in 2016 so it would stand to reason that all demographics show increases.
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Braybuddy
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:14 pm

luckyone wrote:
A couple different things:

1. There's a lot of bluster from the religious right flank, but at the local level we pretty much are able to get done what we need to get done, and recent SCOTUS decisions have reinforced that. That means that instead of focusing on the fact that I have to file my taxes separately from the breeders, now I'm worried about my financial situation in a different way. We're not literally fighting for equality under the law anymore, and as such you'll start to see some diversification politically as other things take priority.

That's more-or-less what the author says about a silver lining. Interesting. I was curious, as 99% of the LGBTQ population on this side of the Atlantic would seem to be anti-Trump. So that 27% figure came as quite a shock.

luckyone wrote:
3. Being gay (or whatever identifier one wishes to lose, honestly I lose track) is neither a virtue nor a flaw. It's a trait. And individually we are just as likely to have differences of views that any other group. Some of us are certainly saints, and some sociopaths. A lot of us have money because we don't have the tendency to accidentally find ourselves pregnant.

:checkmark:
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:37 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
luckyone wrote:
A couple different things:

1. There's a lot of bluster from the religious right flank, but at the local level we pretty much are able to get done what we need to get done, and recent SCOTUS decisions have reinforced that. That means that instead of focusing on the fact that I have to file my taxes separately from the breeders, now I'm worried about my financial situation in a different way. We're not literally fighting for equality under the law anymore, and as such you'll start to see some diversification politically as other things take priority.

That's more-or-less what the author says about a silver lining. Interesting. I was curious, as 99% of the LGBTQ population on this side of the Atlantic would seem to be anti-Trump. So that 27% figure came as quite a shock.

luckyone wrote:
3. Being gay (or whatever identifier one wishes to lose, honestly I lose track) is neither a virtue nor a flaw. It's a trait. And individually we are just as likely to have differences of views that any other group. Some of us are certainly saints, and some sociopaths. A lot of us have money because we don't have the tendency to accidentally find ourselves pregnant.

:checkmark:

Well, I think it's important to note that while cities such as San Francisco (deservedly) get credit and attention for being pioneers in gay community rights, a great many LGBTQRSTUV individuals do not live in cities and in fact live in rural America. Let's not pretend that Democrats on the whole did well in rural America this last round.

I also forgot to add, just because some of us have identified with the Democratic party as they were the ones who adopted the LGBT rights into their platform during the second Obama administration, doesn't mean we will follow the harder flank of the pretentiously named Progressive caucus all the way down the rabbit hole. Much as Trump's blustering tantrums cost him the Presidency, "Defund the Police" no doubt cost Biden a few votes (though he wisely covered his ass by rejecting that policy) and likely the Democrats a few House seats. Even us 'mos have homes and property we'd like to not see vandalized, and many of us have kids now.

Personally, though I did not vote for Mr. Trump, I think it can be viewed as a positive step for LGBT rights on the whole that now enough of us are comfortable voting Republican, because it means that other things now matter -- and that was the point in the first place.
 
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:44 pm

Don’t forget, Trump was a raised middle finger to the establishment, thus every group who feels that gesture is necessary, considered a vote for Trump in their interest. He raised Republican vote shares among lots of minority groups in 2016 and 2020–black, Hispanic, etc. to the degree the Democrats are seen as “establishment”.
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:46 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Don’t forget, Trump was a raised middle finger to the establishment, thus every group who feels that gesture is necessary, considered a vote for Trump in their interest. He raised Republican vote shares among lots of minority groups in 2016 and 2020–black, Hispanic, etc. to the degree the Democrats are seen as “establishment”.

That is a rhetorical construct. There is nothing anti-establishment about Donald Trump beyond the fact that the Republican leadership would rather do without him because he is reckless. He comes from inherited money. His kids have married into New York money. He's been rubbing shoulders with politicians for thirty years.
 
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:51 pm

Must admit, when I read the thread title, my first thought was, so two of them voted for him.
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johns624
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:04 pm

scbriml wrote:
Must admit, when I read the thread title, my first thought was, so two of them voted for him.
You were off by 50%-3 did.
 
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:12 pm

luckyone wrote:
He's been rubbing shoulders with politicians for thirty years.


Yes moderate Democrats which is why he garnered the voting levels of the LGBTQ community. Also the fact that the far right is a small ratio of the electorate. Even though CNN wants you to think they are much bigger so they can scare their base.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:33 pm

luckyone wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Don’t forget, Trump was a raised middle finger to the establishment, thus every group who feels that gesture is necessary, considered a vote for Trump in their interest. He raised Republican vote shares among lots of minority groups in 2016 and 2020–black, Hispanic, etc. to the degree the Democrats are seen as “establishment”.

That is a rhetorical construct. There is nothing anti-establishment about Donald Trump beyond the fact that the Republican leadership would rather do without him because he is reckless. He comes from inherited money. His kids have married into New York money. He's been rubbing shoulders with politicians for thirty years.


Democrats politicians for 30 years, too. Basically, he ran as an outsider against every establishment shibboleth, mostly governed a shambolic administration whose positions didn’t fit any construct. He was hated by the establishment which is mostly his claim to fame.

If he’s so “establishment”; why do they hate so much, so much they’ve tried everything to crucify him, including a made-up “resistance”; a groundless impeachment that began before his inauguration (see WaPo article on Jan 20, 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... has-begun/
 
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:34 pm

Saying all GLTBQ's are Democrats is incorrect. Just because a person is GLTBQ doesn't mean they have other beliefs that align them more with Republicans. Some may not support higher taxes, or more spending on social benefits. They may own small businesses or executives in large businesses where may support limited regulation of businesses. They have views on immigration and religious biases, just like most people.that are more along with Republicans.
 
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:34 pm

luckyone wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Don’t forget, Trump was a raised middle finger to the establishment, thus every group who feels that gesture is necessary, considered a vote for Trump in their interest. He raised Republican vote shares among lots of minority groups in 2016 and 2020–black, Hispanic, etc. to the degree the Democrats are seen as “establishment”.

That is a rhetorical construct. There is nothing anti-establishment about Donald Trump beyond the fact that the Republican leadership would rather do without him because he is reckless. He comes from inherited money. His kids have married into New York money. He's been rubbing shoulders with politicians for thirty years.


Democrats politicians for 30 years, too. Basically, he ran as an outsider against every establishment shibboleth, mostly governed a shambolic administration whose positions didn’t fit any construct. He was hated by the establishment which is mostly his claim to fame. He governed as a middle-of-the-road Democrat.

If he’s so “establishment”; why do they hate so much, so much they’ve tried everything to crucify him, including a made-up “resistance”; a groundless impeachment that began before his inauguration (see WaPo article on Jan 20, 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... has-begun/
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:58 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
luckyone wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Don’t forget, Trump was a raised middle finger to the establishment, thus every group who feels that gesture is necessary, considered a vote for Trump in their interest. He raised Republican vote shares among lots of minority groups in 2016 and 2020–black, Hispanic, etc. to the degree the Democrats are seen as “establishment”.

That is a rhetorical construct. There is nothing anti-establishment about Donald Trump beyond the fact that the Republican leadership would rather do without him because he is reckless. He comes from inherited money. His kids have married into New York money. He's been rubbing shoulders with politicians for thirty years.


Democrats politicians for 30 years, too. Basically, he ran as an outsider against every establishment shibboleth, mostly governed a shambolic administration whose positions didn’t fit any construct. He was hated by the establishment which is mostly his claim to fame. He governed as a middle-of-the-road Democrat.

If he’s so “establishment”; why do they hate so much, so much they’ve tried everything to crucify him, including a made-up “resistance”; a groundless impeachment that began before his inauguration (see WaPo article on Jan 20, 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... has-begun/

I'm sorry, but it's comical now that he's on his way out, you are trying to play revisionist history by calling his governing style as a centrist Democrat (at least by the current definition of a Democrat). Did he wheel and deal with Democrats? Sure, but as we've seen, a Democrat in 1992 or 2000 is not a Democrat in 2020, as that's just the way of politics. Shambolic, I'll agree. But I don't know how one can with any intellectual integrity call President Trump's campaign and presidency Democratic after he modeled himself after a caricature of conservative talk radio and played his rhetoric almost exclusively to that audience -- there is absolutely no question about that. Also, just because someone walks around poking people in the eye, picking fights with low hanging targets doesn't make him anti-establishment just because he spins the record. It makes him a cheap hack. As for why they hate him, I'll adapt a phrase from my father -- "he's more interested in fast nickels than slow dimes." They hate him because he's a self-indulgent reckless clown, his personal life made a joke of the "Moral Majority" platform that the Republicans have been courting since the 70s, and he made them look foolish. None of that makes him "anti-establishment." His actions may make him "anti Democrat establishment," but that's not the same thing, because you can't be "anti-establishment" if you are of the establishment.
 
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:58 pm

Historically any number of gays have identified as hard right, even fascist.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:26 am

luckyone wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
luckyone wrote:
That is a rhetorical construct. There is nothing anti-establishment about Donald Trump beyond the fact that the Republican leadership would rather do without him because he is reckless. He comes from inherited money. His kids have married into New York money. He's been rubbing shoulders with politicians for thirty years.


Democrats politicians for 30 years, too. Basically, he ran as an outsider against every establishment shibboleth, mostly governed a shambolic administration whose positions didn’t fit any construct. He was hated by the establishment which is mostly his claim to fame. He governed as a middle-of-the-road Democrat.

If he’s so “establishment”; why do they hate so much, so much they’ve tried everything to crucify him, including a made-up “resistance”; a groundless impeachment that began before his inauguration (see WaPo article on Jan 20, 2017.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... has-begun/

I'm sorry, but it's comical now that he's on his way out, you are trying to play revisionist history by calling his governing style as a centrist Democrat (at least by the current definition of a Democrat). Did he wheel and deal with Democrats? Sure, but as we've seen, a Democrat in 1992 or 2000 is not a Democrat in 2020, as that's just the way of politics. Shambolic, I'll agree. But I don't know how one can with any intellectual integrity call President Trump's campaign and presidency Democratic after he modeled himself after a caricature of conservative talk radio and played his rhetoric almost exclusively to that audience -- there is absolutely no question about that. Also, just because someone walks around poking people in the eye, picking fights with low hanging targets doesn't make him anti-establishment just because he spins the record. It makes him a cheap hack. As for why they hate him, I'll adapt a phrase from my father -- "he's more interested in fast nickels than slow dimes." They hate him because he's a self-indulgent reckless clown, his personal life made a joke of the "Moral Majority" platform that the Republicans have been courting since the 70s, and he made them look foolish. None of that makes him "anti-establishment." His actions may make him "anti Democrat establishment," but that's not the same thing, because you can't be "anti-establishment" if you are of the establishment.


That’s politics, that’s how you get elected, see Slick Willie’s “Sister Souljah” speech, it’s why they’re universally a necessary evil tribe that must have their power and money trimmed mercilessly, but idiot voters still believe politicians can bribe them with their own money, oops, I meant taxes.

Trump was all over the map from evangelicals on abortion (hard to fathom) to Sanders on immigration and foreign trade (not so hard to believe). Sounds like his centroid of extremes was right in the center.
 
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:36 am

Braybuddy wrote:
I don't normally involve myself in US political threads, but this came out of the blue:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... er-lining/

So over a quarter of the LGBTQ community voted for Donald Trump. I must be out of the loop. Can any US members explain this?

Trump's muse was Roy Cohn, a gay man who helped conservatives purge the government of gay men and women. And then he died of AIDS while his republican colleagues were objectively cheering on the disease because it killed people they hated like him.

There are plenty of people who will gladly help their oppressors if it means the promise of a shred of power. Nothing new under the sun.

luckyone wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Don’t forget, Trump was a raised middle finger to the establishment, thus every group who feels that gesture is necessary, considered a vote for Trump in their interest. He raised Republican vote shares among lots of minority groups in 2016 and 2020–black, Hispanic, etc. to the degree the Democrats are seen as “establishment”.

That is a rhetorical construct. There is nothing anti-establishment about Donald Trump beyond the fact that the Republican leadership would rather do without him because he is reckless. He comes from inherited money. His kids have married into New York money. He's been rubbing shoulders with politicians for thirty years.

:checkmark: Just about every ugly, vulgar thing he has done has come straight out of the republican greatest hits collection. He just said the quiet parts out loud. Over and over and over.

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Historically any number of gays have identified as hard right, even fascist.

As a former Log Cabin Republican, can confirm.
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:43 am

The only manner in which Trump has truly been anti-establishment is continuing to fund his business through shady offshore means. He has been persona non grata with the major US banks since he let everything go tits-up in the mid-1990s. That's one way to be considered tangibly anti-establishment. "I don't deal with Wall Street - they get away with murder" really meant they were murder on me once my credit sucked.
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:56 am

The US has only two parties, so for moderates that means having to live with fringe people. The fringe left is still much less nasty, though.
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seb146
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:06 am

ltbewr wrote:
Saying all GLTBQ's are Democrats is incorrect. Just because a person is GLTBQ doesn't mean they have other beliefs that align them more with Republicans. Some may not support higher taxes, or more spending on social benefits. They may own small businesses or executives in large businesses where may support limited regulation of businesses. They have views on immigration and religious biases, just like most people.that are more along with Republicans.


I agree that being under the LGBTQ umbrella has nothing to do with a person voting for a Democrat or Republican or Libertarian or whatever. We are in all walks of life, in all sectors of employment, in all religions, in all communities. We are not all the same. There are some who do want to "build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" but those LGBTQ people are few and far between, I would say. Many have been shunned by their various religious organizations, so they are far less likely to want church and state blended like Republicans do. I would say the biggest majority of LGBTQ people are center to center left, not right. There are some, don't get me wrong, but not the numbers you think.
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:15 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
I don't normally involve myself in US political threads, but this came out of the blue:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... er-lining/

So over a quarter of the LGBTQ community voted for Donald Trump. I must be out of the loop. Can any US members explain this?

Trump's muse was Roy Cohn, a gay man who helped conservatives purge the government of gay men and women. And then he died of AIDS while his republican colleagues were objectively cheering on the disease because it killed people they hated like him.

I did a little reading on this. And for whatever reason this article has me howling with laughter. Donald Trump gave Roy Cohn a set of diamond cuff links that were later found to be fake. If that just isn’t the perfect metaphor for Donald Trump. :rotfl:

https://nypost.com/2016/06/21/trump-has ... for-years/
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:33 am

luckyone wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
I don't normally involve myself in US political threads, but this came out of the blue:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... er-lining/

So over a quarter of the LGBTQ community voted for Donald Trump. I must be out of the loop. Can any US members explain this?

Trump's muse was Roy Cohn, a gay man who helped conservatives purge the government of gay men and women. And then he died of AIDS while his republican colleagues were objectively cheering on the disease because it killed people they hated like him.

I did a little reading on this. And for whatever reason this article has me howling with laughter. Donald Trump gave Roy Cohn a set of diamond cuff links that were later found to be fake. If that just isn’t the perfect metaphor for Donald Trump. :rotfl:

https://nypost.com/2016/06/21/trump-has ... for-years/


"Trump markets his own line of cuff links through his “Donald J. Trump Signature Collection’’ that are made of metal in China and go for as little as $39.99."

It's just so on brand. And we've known all of this for decades. But you can't fool the willing.
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:15 am

seb146 wrote:
More people voted this year than in 2016 so it would stand to reason that all demographics show increases.

I don't think the increase in "percentage" of vote Trump received from a specific demography can be attributed to more voters in total.
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:03 am

seb146 wrote:
I would say the biggest majority of LGBTQ people are center to center left, not right. There are some, don't get me wrong, but not the numbers you think.

If 27 % voted for him, 73% voted against him.
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:31 am

Aesma wrote:
The fringe left is still much less nasty, though.

Been to Portland lately?
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Braybuddy
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:58 am

seb146 wrote:
More people voted this year than in 2016 so it would stand to reason that all demographics show increases.

But that's in numerical terms, this is actual percentage. This is what surprised me, given that many in the LGBTQ community accuse him of homophobia/transphobia/ whateveryou'rehavingyourselfphobia.
 
Drafran
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:44 am

Anyone who values the Obergfell decision and who thinks that case is settled law is a fool. Just because Trump hasn't called for it to be reversed doesn't mean it can't or won't be. As long as the fruit loops who think there's a magical invisible old man flying in the clouds out there have a big influence on government, Obergfell teeters on the precipice of oblivion.
 
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:06 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The fringe left is still much less nasty, though.

Been to Portland lately?


I'm talking politicians and lobbies. You know like the people "praying" with their hands on Trump shoulders.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:14 pm

Drafran wrote:
Anyone who values the Obergfell decision and who thinks that case is settled law is a fool. Just because Trump hasn't called for it to be reversed doesn't mean it can't or won't be. As long as the fruit loops who think there's a magical invisible old man flying in the clouds out there have a big influence on government, Obergfell teeters on the precipice of oblivion.

Overturning LGBT rights are in the GOP platform and remain a primary goal of the party and of course evangelicals, and SCOTUS' conservative wingnuts have been vocal about overturning it as well.
ArcticSEA wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The fringe left is still much less nasty, though.

Been to Portland lately?

Yah Trump's very fine people™ caravan of Vanilla ISIS were kindness and civility personified :roll:
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c933103
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:30 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Drafran wrote:
Anyone who values the Obergfell decision and who thinks that case is settled law is a fool. Just because Trump hasn't called for it to be reversed doesn't mean it can't or won't be. As long as the fruit loops who think there's a magical invisible old man flying in the clouds out there have a big influence on government, Obergfell teeters on the precipice of oblivion.

Overturning LGBT rights are in the GOP platform and remain a primary goal of the party and of course evangelicals, and SCOTUS' conservative wingnuts have been vocal about overturning it as well.

I think that could be a reason why there are some who voted the Democratic Party Candidate for Congress in addition to Trump
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:42 pm

c933103 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Drafran wrote:
Anyone who values the Obergfell decision and who thinks that case is settled law is a fool. Just because Trump hasn't called for it to be reversed doesn't mean it can't or won't be. As long as the fruit loops who think there's a magical invisible old man flying in the clouds out there have a big influence on government, Obergfell teeters on the precipice of oblivion.

Overturning LGBT rights are in the GOP platform and remain a primary goal of the party and of course evangelicals, and SCOTUS' conservative wingnuts have been vocal about overturning it as well.

I think that could be a reason why there are some who voted the Democratic Party Candidate for Congress in addition to Trump

I don't think it's even that. I think 1 in 4 is probably a reasonable approximation of LGBT people that vote for the perception of lower taxes no matter what, and don't give a flying fig about their rights and certainly anybody else's...
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wingman
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:03 pm

I wonder how many of them might still be in the closet to friends and family but are wiling to identify as such in surveys like this. Maybe certain segment have deep self loathing and vote against the interests of liberated sexuality and equal rights thinking it'll help them "get better" or serve as some sort of self-inflicted punishment for what they are. I think of that Hungarian guy serving in Orban's government who just got busted in a gay nightclub in Brussels for violating COVID lockdown rules. It's hard to explain gay people working so hard against gay interests, or in the case of the Orban guy actively fighting to roll back or eliminate gay rights. People do word shit I guess, like Evangelicals voting for thrice-divorced whore junkies who haven't seen the inside of a church in 74 years.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55145989
 
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c933103
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:15 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Overturning LGBT rights are in the GOP platform and remain a primary goal of the party and of course evangelicals, and SCOTUS' conservative wingnuts have been vocal about overturning it as well.

I think that could be a reason why there are some who voted the Democratic Party Candidate for Congress in addition to Trump

I don't think it's even that. I think 1 in 4 is probably a reasonable approximation of LGBT people that vote for the perception of lower taxes no matter what, and don't give a flying fig about their rights and certainly anybody else's...

The percentage cited in the article say Trump got more vote share fron LGBT community than even Republican candidates in 2008 and 2012.
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seb146
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:22 pm

c933103 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I think that could be a reason why there are some who voted the Democratic Party Candidate for Congress in addition to Trump

I don't think it's even that. I think 1 in 4 is probably a reasonable approximation of LGBT people that vote for the perception of lower taxes no matter what, and don't give a flying fig about their rights and certainly anybody else's...

The percentage cited in the article say Trump got more vote share fron LGBT community than even Republican candidates in 2008 and 2012.


But double 5% and that is 10% so I don't know what the big deal is.

I am also wondering how these companies are getting ahold of demographics. As long as I have been voting, all that was on my ballot was candidate names, which I filled in the bubble next to their name or, a couple of times we used a single sheet punch card, and my signature. Nothing else. No age, no address, no sexual orientation, no skin color, no religious affiliation. Unless that is a thing in other states?

Keep in mind I have only ever voted in Oregon, Washington, and California.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:56 pm

c933103 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
I think that could be a reason why there are some who voted the Democratic Party Candidate for Congress in addition to Trump

I don't think it's even that. I think 1 in 4 is probably a reasonable approximation of LGBT people that vote for the perception of lower taxes no matter what, and don't give a flying fig about their rights and certainly anybody else's...

The percentage cited in the article say Trump got more vote share fron LGBT community than even Republican candidates in 2008 and 2012.

I think the progress made under Obama, particularly marriage equality, and Trump waving a rainbow flag upside down one time gave them cover and plausible deniability to everything else the Trump admin was doing
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PPVRA
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:34 pm

Across the globe, there’s a roughly 50-50 split between left and right in just about every country. There’s no reason to think any particular group, be it ethnic, race or sexual orientation, will not fall within that 50-50 split.

But obviously, if you’re a party that still hangs on to anti-gay marriage views, you’re gonna lose support from individuals in that community. Not because those people don’t share most of your beliefs, but because of the large personal impact anti-gay marriage polices have on them. Therefore, they become single issue voters.
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N1120A
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:21 am

It could be that there are a lot more racists in the LGBTQ community than we original thought.
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AirframeAS
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:37 am

Aesma wrote:
The US has only two parties....


Actually, we have two MAJOR parties and a "half" of a party which are the Independants (See: Bernie Sanders).
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Pellegrine
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:19 am

Let's not shy about who this is.

They are white conservative racists who have used their closets to promote their own ideologue.

They do not respect the older generation who came before us who went through the HIV/AIDS epidemic under Reagan, they do not respect queer youths who were kicked out of their homes and who are un/underemployed, they definitely do not respect queer POC.
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Pellegrine
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:28 am

Half/In-and-out of the closet white conservative men who use just enough of their newfound freedom because of what Democrats did under the Obama Administration and society changing to reveal who they really are.

That's what these people are.

They want to ____ men, but they have no dedication nor feelings towards queer rights or furthering them. Either they have dedication to their money, their politics, or their whiteness.

And they will get nothing from a person like me...who has fought...who has been uncomfortable when it has been required...who has argued for human rights. They get nothing from me.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
stratosphere
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:56 am

I find it so amusing when the black community got pissed when Biden called them monolithic but they pretty much are much like the LGBTQ community is. From where I sit anyone who strays in either community is excoriated and shamed by the masses or in the black community called an "Uncle Tom" . I find this offensive myself. This is my issue with liberals and progressives in general its you agree with me or we will get you fired or shame you into thinking like us. You can hate Trump hell I hate him at this point. But I don't like the my way or the highway mentality that liberals have.
 
FGITD
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:36 am

stratosphere wrote:
I find it so amusing when the black community got pissed when Biden called them monolithic but they pretty much are much like the LGBTQ community is. From where I sit anyone who strays in either community is excoriated and shamed by the masses or in the black community called an "Uncle Tom" . I find this offensive myself. This is my issue with liberals and progressives in general its you agree with me or we will get you fired or shame you into thinking like us. You can hate Trump hell I hate him at this point. But I don't like the my way or the highway mentality that liberals have.


This is the same party that, as I recall, just recently stormed the Capitol building and hung nooses while chanting “Hang Mike Pence” because he prioritized the democratic process instead of falling in step with the party line that the election was stolen?

Those dirty ol’ libs and their “my way or the highway” though!
 
stratosphere
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:41 am

FGITD wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
I find it so amusing when the black community got pissed when Biden called them monolithic but they pretty much are much like the LGBTQ community is. From where I sit anyone who strays in either community is excoriated and shamed by the masses or in the black community called an "Uncle Tom" . I find this offensive myself. This is my issue with liberals and progressives in general its you agree with me or we will get you fired or shame you into thinking like us. You can hate Trump hell I hate him at this point. But I don't like the my way or the highway mentality that liberals have.


This is the same party that, as I recall, just recently stormed the Capitol building and hung nooses while chanting “Hang Mike Pence” because he prioritized the democratic process instead of falling in step with the party line that the election was stolen?

Those dirty ol’ libs and their “my way or the highway” though!


That is a minority which this group was not the majority which your group is.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:27 am

stratosphere wrote:
I find it so amusing when the black community got pissed when Biden called them monolithic but they pretty much are much like the LGBTQ community is. From where I sit anyone who strays in either community is excoriated and shamed by the masses or in the black community called an "Uncle Tom" . I find this offensive myself. This is my issue with liberals and progressives in general its you agree with me or we will get you fired or shame you into thinking like us. You can hate Trump hell I hate him at this point. But I don't like the my way or the highway mentality that liberals have.


I actually understand your point but of course that exists in both parties. Republicans act in the same exact way except that when you disagree with them you're branded as being "anti-Americans."

To your point though, as an African American I agree that Democrats get too cozy with the expectation that minority groups obviously must vote for them. I've seen that expectation alone make people angry enough to vote Republican. But I think the energy within these minority groups is that intense not because they LOVE Democrats but because Republicans clearly don't have minority interests on their agenda. And I'm not saying that Democrats are the beacon of those interests but Republicans at best accept and more realistically actively court voters who are actually anti-Black. I would think it's even more serious on the LGBT side because Republicans openly and proudly say they shouldn't have rights.

But I think identity politics the left has embraced has definitely pissed a lot of people off and moving forward they need to move away from it. Given how outwardly anti PC Trump is I can see how he attracted people from these groups.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:53 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Half/In-and-out of the closet white conservative men who use just enough of their newfound freedom because of what Democrats did under the Obama Administration and society changing to reveal who they really are.

That's what these people are.

They want to ____ men, but they have no dedication nor feelings towards queer rights or furthering them. Either they have dedication to their money, their politics, or their whiteness.

And they will get nothing from a person like me...who has fought...who has been uncomfortable when it has been required...who has argued for human rights. They get nothing from me.


There is room here for a sane and logical discussion about sexuality in men. No one cares, and it is even encouraged, for women to experiment with other women but it is still taboo for men to even think about experimenting with other men. I think that is slowly shifting. I think the men who now claim to be bisexual are not really fully bi. They could have gotten aroused during a WWE show because they don't know their body. Maybe they were at a public bathroom and glanced at a man next to them and thought "I am not revolted". I don't believe these men are truly bisexual. Some probably are, but not all of them.

I knew men back in the day who dated a few men, never did anything physical with them, and still call themselves bisexual to this day. I would not call that bi. If you try it, don't like it, and go back to what you do like, that is experimentation, not full on bisexuality.
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LMP737
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:05 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Don’t forget, Trump was a raised middle finger to the establishment, thus every group who feels that gesture is necessary, considered a vote for Trump in their interest. He raised Republican vote shares among lots of minority groups in 2016 and 2020–black, Hispanic, etc. to the degree the Democrats are seen as “establishment”.


What's he's good at is playing people for fools. Why people can't see that is beyond me.
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scbriml
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:34 am

LMP737 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Don’t forget, Trump was a raised middle finger to the establishment, thus every group who feels that gesture is necessary, considered a vote for Trump in their interest. He raised Republican vote shares among lots of minority groups in 2016 and 2020–black, Hispanic, etc. to the degree the Democrats are seen as “establishment”.


What's he's good at is playing people for fools. Why people can't see that is beyond me.


Could be amended to "What's he's good at is playing people for fools, then throwing them under the bus when they're no longer useful."
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LMP737
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:28 pm

scbriml wrote:

Could be amended to "What's he's good at is playing people for fools, then throwing them under the bus when they're no longer useful."


It's well established that he eventually turns on everyone. Just ask Mike Pence.
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DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:49 am

I don't know if I can explain it, but I will try.

Trump has a cult following, he attracts people for different reasons that people for some reason can't or won't tell you . One of my best friends who's gay turned into a Trump supporter, he told me nobody is perfect when I told him all the horrible things Trump had done towards the LGBT community.

Back in 2008 I was canvassing in Florida and thought a gay friendly bar would be a good place to canvass. 15% told me they were republicans. This was before LGBT could get legally married. Most said they were Republican because they didn't like paying taxes. I would imagine, now that they have more rights, they are concentrating on not paying too much in taxes, or they can be like those who don't know why they voted for Trump. They just like him.
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump doubled support from LGBTQs

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:21 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I don't know if I can explain it, but I will try.

Trump has a cult following, he attracts people for different reasons that people for some reason can't or won't tell you . One of my best friends who's gay turned into a Trump supporter, he told me nobody is perfect when I told him all the horrible things Trump had done towards the LGBT community.

Back in 2008 I was canvassing in Florida and thought a gay friendly bar would be a good place to canvass. 15% told me they were republicans. This was before LGBT could get legally married. Most said they were Republican because they didn't like paying taxes. I would imagine, now that they have more rights, they are concentrating on not paying too much in taxes, or they can be like those who don't know why they voted for Trump. They just like him.

Trump is about emotion. Pure visceral emotion. The policies are just the perfunctory talking points. He sold emotion with his display of perceived wealth, with his relationships, with his television show, with his branding. We all know people who are reactionary and emotional. We also all know people who seem to think that they always pay too much tax yet they demand all the benefits that come with paying more.

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