Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 10
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 16089
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:35 pm

https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/new-cd ... /19462398/

New data from the CDC shows more than half of COVID-19 transmissions come from people who don’t even know they have it.

A new model shows that 59% of all transferals come from asymptomatic carriers. That includes 35% of people who were pre-symptomatic and 24% who never developed any symptoms
.

This shows how these Covid variants are so hard to contain.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/health/u ... index.html

The US reported more than 4,000 Covid-19 deaths Thursday -- the most virus-related deaths the country has reported in one day since the pandemic's start.

It's the third day in a row of record daily deaths from the disease, according to data from Johns Hopkins University, while the number of people who have been infected topped more than 21.56 million.
......
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's most recent forecast projected there will be between 405,000 and 438,000 deaths by the end of the month. The previous forecast, published December 30, projected up to 424,000 deaths by January 23.


Thanks to misinformation and forced openings, the spread is causing more and more deaths.
 
cpd
Posts: 7484
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:27 pm

casinterest wrote:
https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/new-cdc-data-shows-nearly-60-of-covid-19-transmissions-come-from-those-with-no-symptoms/19462398/

New data from the CDC shows more than half of COVID-19 transmissions come from people who don’t even know they have it.

A new model shows that 59% of all transferals come from asymptomatic carriers. That includes 35% of people who were pre-symptomatic and 24% who never developed any symptoms
.

This shows how these Covid variants are so hard to contain.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/health/u ... index.html

The US reported more than 4,000 Covid-19 deaths Thursday -- the most virus-related deaths the country has reported in one day since the pandemic's start.

It's the third day in a row of record daily deaths from the disease, according to data from Johns Hopkins University, while the number of people who have been infected topped more than 21.56 million.
......
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's most recent forecast projected there will be between 405,000 and 438,000 deaths by the end of the month. The previous forecast, published December 30, projected up to 424,000 deaths by January 23.


Thanks to misinformation and forced openings, the spread is causing more and more deaths.


We’ve now got the UK and South African strains of the virus in my country but our authorities are doing a pretty good job of tracking and tracing it. Even finding it in waste water samples and alerting those areas.

Rest is down to lockdowns when needed and people being sensible. We are seeing a lot of mask wearing now it is mandatory.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 16089
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:37 pm

cpd wrote:
casinterest wrote:
https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/new-cdc-data-shows-nearly-60-of-covid-19-transmissions-come-from-those-with-no-symptoms/19462398/

New data from the CDC shows more than half of COVID-19 transmissions come from people who don’t even know they have it.

A new model shows that 59% of all transferals come from asymptomatic carriers. That includes 35% of people who were pre-symptomatic and 24% who never developed any symptoms
.

This shows how these Covid variants are so hard to contain.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/health/u ... index.html

The US reported more than 4,000 Covid-19 deaths Thursday -- the most virus-related deaths the country has reported in one day since the pandemic's start.

It's the third day in a row of record daily deaths from the disease, according to data from Johns Hopkins University, while the number of people who have been infected topped more than 21.56 million.
......
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's most recent forecast projected there will be between 405,000 and 438,000 deaths by the end of the month. The previous forecast, published December 30, projected up to 424,000 deaths by January 23.


Thanks to misinformation and forced openings, the spread is causing more and more deaths.


We’ve now got the UK and South African strains of the virus in my country but our authorities are doing a pretty good job of tracking and tracing it. Even finding it in waste water samples and alerting those areas.

Rest is down to lockdowns when needed and people being sensible. We are seeing a lot of mask wearing now it is mandatory.



Mask wearing is prevalent here, but we still have folks not wearing them.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:07 pm

casinterest wrote:
...
Mask wearing is prevalent here, but we still have folks not wearing them.


I have a feeling the quality of the masks in use are the reason, with botched initial recommendation and foreign countries emptying our N95 stockpile, we are forced to wear cloth masks or low quality surgical masks. Both are not the best options. Invoking DPA might have improved PPE availability to medical professional, public still are using cloth face covering.

Nine months into this pandemic, it is difficult to find a 3M N95(non-medical grade) mask.
 
Toenga
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:55 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:54 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
casinterest wrote:
...
Mask wearing is prevalent here, but we still have folks not wearing them.


I have a feeling the quality of the masks in use are the reason, with botched initial recommendation and foreign countries emptying our N95 stockpile, we are forced to wear cloth masks or low quality surgical masks. Both are not the best options. Invoking DPA might have improved PPE availability to medical professional, public still are using cloth face covering.

Nine months into this pandemic, it is difficult to find a 3M N95(non-medical grade) mask.


For the general public raising the percentage of people wearing masks is a lot more important then improving the quality of masks worn. If a simple cloth mask is 80% of the effectiveness of a N95 medical grade mask, switching everbody who is wearing masks to N95 masks is the same effectiveness as increasing mask wearing by a mere 1 in 5 people.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:54 am

Toenga wrote:
For the general public raising the percentage of people wearing masks is a lot more important then improving the quality of masks worn. If a simple cloth mask is 80% of the effectiveness of a N95 medical grade mask, switching everbody who is wearing masks to N95 masks is the same effectiveness as increasing mask wearing by a mere 1 in 5 people.


Those who are willing to wear a mask are doing it. I doubt there will be any increase in the percentage of people using it.

Available vaccine will have adverse effect on mask usage, "I had a vaccine I don't need to wear the mask" mindset.

Some may even use vaccine as an excuse to avoid mask, without even getting vaccinated.

Asian countries mostly wear surgical masks, our strategic stockpile was a myth, hence the pickle we are in.

Prior to COVID-19 3M N95s were 65c each. Now you can get cheap quality KN95 for $1.10+
 
art
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:15 pm

I am in the UK. I hear it is estimated that 2%-3% of the population is currently infected. I wonder how this translates into the entire population being infected. Why? Once the entire population has been infected, the entire population will be immune, so things can return to status quo ante-coronavirus (go back to life as it was a year ago).

With 2%-3% infection now, anyone got any idea how long (theoretically) it would take for 100% of the population to have had coronavirus?
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 6391
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:26 pm

art wrote:
I am in the UK. I hear it is estimated that 2%-3% of the population is currently infected. I wonder how this translates into the entire population being infected. Why? Once the entire population has been infected, the entire population will be immune, so things can return to status quo ante-coronavirus (go back to life as it was a year ago).

With 2%-3% infection now, anyone got any idea how long (theoretically) it would take for 100% of the population to have had coronavirus?


I'd be cautious with these figures.

Some would say it's actually much more than this. It may be closer to 10-15% in Europe and the US, maybe even more at the rate it's going.
There's also little data on the amount of immunization being infected gives you or for how long.

While it is expected that eventually the spread of the virus would lead to a sort of herd immunity, or at least generalized tolerance to it, I don't think anyone knows when that might happen.
All we know is that looking at the figures, we're still not there, and this thing has been doing the rounds for almost a year now. Even with the most 'optimistic' assumptions regarding its prevalence, it would probably take several years before it would become benign enough to not be a global medical emergency.
The point being that we'll get there faster with vaccines...
 
art
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:01 pm

Francoflier wrote:
art wrote:
I am in the UK. I hear it is estimated that 2%-3% of the population is currently infected. I wonder how this translates into the entire population being infected. Why? Once the entire population has been infected, the entire population will be immune, so things can return to status quo ante-coronavirus (go back to life as it was a year ago).

With 2%-3% infection now, anyone got any idea how long (theoretically) it would take for 100% of the population to have had coronavirus?

I'd be cautious with these figures.

Some would say it's actually much more than this. It may be closer to 10-15% in Europe and the US, maybe even more at the rate it's going.
There's also little data on the amount of immunization being infected gives you or for how long.


I hope that 10%-15% is the case. With a transmission rate >1 and a 7 day transmission cycle (ie 1 infection becomes >2 in a week), everyone should have been infected within 10 weeks or less. I know I am being very crude in my estimate but my point is that if steps to eradicate the virus fail - as they have amost everywhere - the more successful it is in infecting people, the sooner we will reach the end of the tunnel. There are few reports of people becoming re-infected, so I guess that post infection and recovering there is a high level of immunity.

Francoflier wrote:
The point being that we'll get there faster with vaccines...

I agree.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 6391
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:31 pm

art wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
art wrote:
I am in the UK. I hear it is estimated that 2%-3% of the population is currently infected. I wonder how this translates into the entire population being infected. Why? Once the entire population has been infected, the entire population will be immune, so things can return to status quo ante-coronavirus (go back to life as it was a year ago).

With 2%-3% infection now, anyone got any idea how long (theoretically) it would take for 100% of the population to have had coronavirus?

I'd be cautious with these figures.

Some would say it's actually much more than this. It may be closer to 10-15% in Europe and the US, maybe even more at the rate it's going.
There's also little data on the amount of immunization being infected gives you or for how long.


I hope that 10%-15% is the case. With a transmission rate >1 and a 7 day transmission cycle (ie 1 infection becomes >2 in a week), everyone should have been infected within 10 weeks or less. I know I am being very crude in my estimate but my point is that if steps to eradicate the virus fail - as they have amost everywhere - the more successful it is in infecting people, the sooner we will reach the end of the tunnel. There are few reports of people becoming re-infected, so I guess that post infection and recovering there is a high level of immunity.

Francoflier wrote:
The point being that we'll get there faster with vaccines...

I agree.


It seems these kinds of viruses tend to spread in successive waves, usually of decreasing amplitude, until they either become assimilated by the human immune system or disappear altogether. Either way you're right. It is likely a problem that will solve itself eventually one way or another.

I'd also love to know more about cases of reinfection. We've heard some alarmism around the fact that some people got it twice and worse the second time, or that immunity from infection wouldn't last very long but ultimately, it seems there haven't been a lot of studies done on the subject yet, or data is hard to come by.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:05 pm

Francoflier wrote:
art wrote:
I am in the UK. I hear it is estimated that 2%-3% of the population is currently infected. I wonder how this translates into the entire population being infected. Why? Once the entire population has been infected, the entire population will be immune, so things can return to status quo ante-coronavirus (go back to life as it was a year ago).

With 2%-3% infection now, anyone got any idea how long (theoretically) it would take for 100% of the population to have had coronavirus?


I'd be cautious with these figures.

Some would say it's actually much more than this. It may be closer to 10-15% in Europe and the US, maybe even more at the rate it's going.
There's also little data on the amount of immunization being infected gives you or for how long.

While it is expected that eventually the spread of the virus would lead to a sort of herd immunity, or at least generalized tolerance to it, I don't think anyone knows when that might happen.
All we know is that looking at the figures, we're still not there, and this thing has been doing the rounds for almost a year now. Even with the most 'optimistic' assumptions regarding its prevalence, it would probably take several years before it would become benign enough to not be a global medical emergency.
The point being that we'll get there faster with vaccines...


Adding to your reply:

10-20% sounds like the right ballpark, with a vast majority asymptomatic and hence undetected.
It has been widely reported in the past months that only survivors of a severe infection develop lasting immunity for several months, perhaps up to a year. (see link below)

So to answer Art, infecting everyone little by little is not going to get us closer to herd immunity.
Even in the best scanerio, by the time the last guys get infected, the first guys who got infected are no longer immune.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... e-response
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:47 pm

sevenheavy wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

I'd be cautious with these figures.

Some would say it's actually much more than this. It may be closer to 10-15% in Europe and the US, maybe even more at the rate it's going.
There's also little data on the amount of immunization being infected gives you or for how long.

While it is expected that eventually the spread of the virus would lead to a sort of herd immunity, or at least generalized tolerance to it, I don't think anyone knows when that might happen.
All we know is that looking at the figures, we're still not there, and this thing has been doing the rounds for almost a year now. Even with the most 'optimistic' assumptions regarding its prevalence, it would probably take several years before it would become benign enough to not be a global medical emergency.
The point being that we'll get there faster with vaccines...


Adding to your reply:

10-20% sounds like the right ballpark, with a vast majority asymptomatic and hence undetected.
It has been widely reported in the past months that only survivors of a severe infection develop lasting immunity for several months, perhaps up to a year. (see link below)

So to answer Art, infecting everyone little by little is not going to get us closer to herd immunity.
Even in the best scanerio, by the time the last guys get infected, the first guys who got infected are no longer immune.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... e-response


That’s really not what the link you posted says at all

In fact, the last paragraph sums up by saying that the vast majority of COVID sufferers will have antibodies for many months.

The research acknowledges a link between more severe cases/higher viral load and higher levels of antibodies. Nowhere do either of the cited studies claim that ‘only survivors of a severe infection develop lasting immunity for several months’. If anything, it says the opposite


The last paragraph references a Portuguese study with a different conclusion than the UK one that I'm referencing:

Severe disease and longer-lasting immune response
A UK study in Nature Microbiology today examined 65 individuals with polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and 31 seropositive healthcare workers (HCWs).

The study authors sampled patients—with symptoms ranging from asymptomatic to critical—for antibody responses in serum collected up to 94 days after symptom onset using enzyme-linked immunoassay.

More than 95% of patients showed seroconversion—the presence of detectable SARS-CoV-2 antibodies—and neutralizing antibodies in samples 8 days after symptom onset, but the magnitude of the neutralizing antibody response appears to depend on disease severity, with lower peak antibody levels in individuals exhibiting milder disease.

The researchers found that SARS-CoV-2 antibody response is typical of other acute viral infections, with an initial peak antibody response followed by declining levels. Immunoglobulin (Ig) A and IgM antibodies approached baseline levels in some patients by 60 days after symptom onset, with IgG remaining high in most patients up to 94 days after onset.

In some individuals with low initial levels of peak neutralizing antibodies (mean infectious dose [ID50], 100 to 300), antibodies were undetectable after 50 days, while some patients with high initial levels (ID50, 1,000 to 3,500) maintained neutralizing antibodies for more than 60 days after initial symptoms.

"In some individuals, SARS-CoV-2 infection generates only a transient neutralizing antibody response that rapidly wanes," the authors suggest. In contrast,
antibody levels in patients with high initial levels (ID50 > 4,000) declined but remained in the 1,000 to 3,500 range through the end of the study period.


https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... e-response

The general consensus is in line with the UK study.
 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2429
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:43 pm

A private clinic in Göteborg in Sweden has been reported to the police after issuing false negative Covid test results.
The clinic claimed that they used the large lab company Unilabs as the testing lab. Unilabs is however saying that they never have received any tests from this clinic.
The clinic then claimed that it was a misunderstanding and the tests were analysed by Tataa biocenter and Sahlgrenska university hospital lab but of them
are saying that it's wrong and that they do analyses for this clinic.

https://omni.se/privat-lakarklinik-i-go ... r/a/EpJ8lP
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 979
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:40 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
sevenheavy wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

Adding to your reply:

10-20% sounds like the right ballpark, with a vast majority asymptomatic and hence undetected.
It has been widely reported in the past months that only survivors of a severe infection develop lasting immunity for several months, perhaps up to a year. (see link below)

So to answer Art, infecting everyone little by little is not going to get us closer to herd immunity.
Even in the best scanerio, by the time the last guys get infected, the first guys who got infected are no longer immune.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... e-response


That’s really not what the link you posted says at all

In fact, the last paragraph sums up by saying that the vast majority of COVID sufferers will have antibodies for many months.

The research acknowledges a link between more severe cases/higher viral load and higher levels of antibodies. Nowhere do either of the cited studies claim that ‘only survivors of a severe infection develop lasting immunity for several months’. If anything, it says the opposite


The last paragraph references a Portuguese study with a different conclusion than the UK one that I'm referencing:

Severe disease and longer-lasting immune response
A UK study in Nature Microbiology today examined 65 individuals with polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and 31 seropositive healthcare workers (HCWs).

The study authors sampled patients—with symptoms ranging from asymptomatic to critical—for antibody responses in serum collected up to 94 days after symptom onset using enzyme-linked immunoassay.

More than 95% of patients showed seroconversion—the presence of detectable SARS-CoV-2 antibodies—and neutralizing antibodies in samples 8 days after symptom onset, but the magnitude of the neutralizing antibody response appears to depend on disease severity, with lower peak antibody levels in individuals exhibiting milder disease.

The researchers found that SARS-CoV-2 antibody response is typical of other acute viral infections, with an initial peak antibody response followed by declining levels. Immunoglobulin (Ig) A and IgM antibodies approached baseline levels in some patients by 60 days after symptom onset, with IgG remaining high in most patients up to 94 days after onset.

In some individuals with low initial levels of peak neutralizing antibodies (mean infectious dose [ID50], 100 to 300), antibodies were undetectable after 50 days, while some patients with high initial levels (ID50, 1,000 to 3,500) maintained neutralizing antibodies for more than 60 days after initial symptoms.

"In some individuals, SARS-CoV-2 infection generates only a transient neutralizing antibody response that rapidly wanes," the authors suggest. In contrast,
antibody levels in patients with high initial levels (ID50 > 4,000) declined but remained in the 1,000 to 3,500 range through the end of the study period.


https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... e-response

The general consensus is in line with the UK study.


And yet, a far more recent set of findings from the very same publication comes to a very different conclusion

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... t-8-months.

Granted, there are a lot of unknowns but it is certainly not widely agreed that immunity doesn’t last.

There is also a growing consensus that T cells provide a much longer lasting “memory” against reinfection, so even when/if antibodies do wane over time it’s likely that some level of protection (at least against serious reinfection) remains.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4596
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:27 pm

sevenheavy wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
sevenheavy wrote:

That’s really not what the link you posted says at all

In fact, the last paragraph sums up by saying that the vast majority of COVID sufferers will have antibodies for many months.

The research acknowledges a link between more severe cases/higher viral load and higher levels of antibodies. Nowhere do either of the cited studies claim that ‘only survivors of a severe infection develop lasting immunity for several months’. If anything, it says the opposite


The last paragraph references a Portuguese study with a different conclusion than the UK one that I'm referencing:

Severe disease and longer-lasting immune response
A UK study in Nature Microbiology today examined 65 individuals with polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and 31 seropositive healthcare workers (HCWs).

The study authors sampled patients—with symptoms ranging from asymptomatic to critical—for antibody responses in serum collected up to 94 days after symptom onset using enzyme-linked immunoassay.

More than 95% of patients showed seroconversion—the presence of detectable SARS-CoV-2 antibodies—and neutralizing antibodies in samples 8 days after symptom onset, but the magnitude of the neutralizing antibody response appears to depend on disease severity, with lower peak antibody levels in individuals exhibiting milder disease.

The researchers found that SARS-CoV-2 antibody response is typical of other acute viral infections, with an initial peak antibody response followed by declining levels. Immunoglobulin (Ig) A and IgM antibodies approached baseline levels in some patients by 60 days after symptom onset, with IgG remaining high in most patients up to 94 days after onset.

In some individuals with low initial levels of peak neutralizing antibodies (mean infectious dose [ID50], 100 to 300), antibodies were undetectable after 50 days, while some patients with high initial levels (ID50, 1,000 to 3,500) maintained neutralizing antibodies for more than 60 days after initial symptoms.

"In some individuals, SARS-CoV-2 infection generates only a transient neutralizing antibody response that rapidly wanes," the authors suggest. In contrast,
antibody levels in patients with high initial levels (ID50 > 4,000) declined but remained in the 1,000 to 3,500 range through the end of the study period.


https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... e-response

The general consensus is in line with the UK study.


And yet, a far more recent set of findings from the very same publication comes to a very different conclusion

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... t-8-months.

Granted, there are a lot of unknowns but it is certainly not widely agreed that immunity doesn’t last.

There is also a growing consensus that T cells provide a much longer lasting “memory” against reinfection, so even when/if antibodies do wane over time it’s likely that some level of protection (at least against serious reinfection) remains.


Correct immunity is not a black and white thing. Just maintaining antibodies for all infections would be incredibly inefficient for the body to do. There for it has T-cells and memory cells.

We get constant exposure to pathogens to keep our immune system working and active which is why you get sick all the time as a kid and it drops off as you get older. The reason, memory immunity and thankfully vaccines.

For those of you who haven't had the flu in a long time. Well yes you have but if you get the annual vaccine and are a healthy adult more often than not getting seriously sick from it and the illness is very minor.

With repeated exposure to covid19 you are continually giving you immune system a change to learn and memorize the virus that it won't be able to evade your immune system like it does now forever.
 
cpd
Posts: 7484
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:26 am

Someone needed plenty of toilet paper:

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real- ... a67c4e5a6a

Thee is no need for people to buy that much!
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:06 pm

Less people died in Sweden 2020 then the bad flu year 1993 while Sweden had smaller population then today;

----------------------------------

The pandemic has led to economic disaster for industry after industry and a temporary law that gives the government the right to take our fundamental freedom away from us.

Now it turns out that as many died in 1993 as last year.

Statistics Sweden has published its preliminary death tolls for 2020.

The dark year when the corona paralyzed the world, countries were shut down, curfews were issued, in short, restrictions were implemented that had previously been reserved for wars, coups and plagues that threatened to wipe out civilizations.

A year that also contained curiosities I suspect that posterity will have a bit of a hard time understanding.

For example, opinion leaders who used their column space in a major newspaper to instruct readers how to make their own mouth guards and the occasional publicist who with alarmingly high blood pressure stood on the barricade and roared that the borders would be closed.

Statistics Sweden has translated this odd year into statistics, something that Sweden is unusually good at. The result?

97,164 Swedes died last year. These figures are somewhat uncertain, there is some delay in registration and the figures believe that when last year's number is locked at the end of February, the death toll will have been written up by a number of hundred people.

But it is a hint as good as anyone about what last year has to offer when death is to be reformulated into tables.

At the same time, it is statistics that do not tell us much if we do not compare with anything. As for example the years before that.

Between 2015 and 2019, an average of 90,962 people died each year. In other words, the pandemic year killed 6,202 more Swedes than in a normal year.

It is reasonable to explain this excess mortality with the virus that afflicts us all to varying degrees. It is also reasonable to assume that the number of deaths would have been higher without all these restrictions surrounding us.

The Swedish Public Health Agency's survey shows that 9,309 Swedes died with covid-19 by 31 December, but that statistic includes everyone who has been diagnosed and died within 30 days.

This means that people who have been infected but died in a car accident are registered. So do multi-sick and 89-year-old aunts. In other words, it is sometimes difficult to determine whether the virus was actually directly lethal.

But no matter how we twist and turn Statistics Sweden's material, it is impossible to get around the fact that 2020 was a miserable year with an unusual amount of deaths.

However, not unique much. In 1993, 97,008 deaths were registered. Malignant flu ravaged and effective vaccines were not yet properly established.

It can be pointed out that there were 156 fewer people than last year who died in those gloomy 12 months almost 30 years ago.

But it is also possible to point out that more people live in Sweden now than then and that 1.1 percent of the population was buried in 1993, compared with 0.9 percent during the 2020 pandemic.

This dimension is not unimportant. One of journalism's less successful moments last year was the alarmist headlines about "Deadliest November since Spanish flu".

In the excitement, more than one editor forgot that Sweden's population has more than doubled since 1918.

Now, however, perspective is not journalism's main discipline. Perspective is like the annoying fly that can not be waved away. Perspective tends to sabotage the story.

Nevertheless, there is reason to ask some questions based on these perspectives.

Are all these human tragedies in the form of life's work that went up in smoke, bankruptcies, more or less wiped out industries, rising unemployment and exclusion a reasonable price to pay for a virus that has not led to more deaths than a malignant flu?

And was it really reasonable to enact a law that gives the government and authorities the right to a comprehensive restriction of our fundamental rights?

Yes, the questions are rhetorical. They can be formulated in a completely different way. It is questionable whether a modern state, so much more developed than during the Spanish flu, should do everything in its power to fight a pandemic as far as possible.

The answer lies in the eye of the beholder . But I think that when historians, psychologists and behavioral scientists at some point in the future present their theses about what happened during the time of the virus, they will have one ingredient in their explanations in common:

One of man's many peculiar features is a horror-mixed love of disaster.



https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/kolu ... er-coronan
 
art
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:47 pm

From the UK Daily Mirror site https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/c ... w-23317039

A third mutant strain of Covid-19 was detected in Brazil this week.

The Brazil variant was discovered by Japanese scientists from samples taken from four travellers from the South American country.

Coming in the month after variants from the UK and South Africa came to the world's attention, there are concerns the South American strain could also be more infectious than previous versions of the novel coronavirus.


I hope it is not more contagious than the UK mutant. That might be very bad news.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:13 pm

art wrote:
From the UK Daily Mirror site https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/c ... w-23317039

A third mutant strain of Covid-19 was detected in Brazil this week.

The Brazil variant was discovered by Japanese scientists from samples taken from four travellers from the South American country.

Coming in the month after variants from the UK and South Africa came to the world's attention, there are concerns the South American strain could also be more infectious than previous versions of the novel coronavirus.


I hope it is not more contagious than the UK mutant. That might be very bad news.


I listened on Chilean news today and they are very worried. They currently have summer but the number of cases do not go down as much as expected.
 
art
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:40 pm

From France24.com

New strain of Covid-19 tripled infections despite UK lockdown, report says

The new, more contagious strain of Covid-19 that first emerged in the southeast of England was already spreading rapidly even during the nation’s second lockdown in November, according to a report published Thursday by scientists at Imperial College London.
Advertising

A report by scientists at Imperial College London released on December 31 estimated that the new coronavirus strain tripled its number of infections in England during the November lockdown while the number of new cases caused by the previous variant decreased by a third.


https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2021 ... eport-says

Alarming to me. What can we do if this virus mutates to become more and more contagious? I suppose that we will just have to accept that not everyone needing medical treatment will receive it due to demand exceeding supply - for a time.

Vaccination will reduce the number of people getting the virus and suffering symptoms severe enough to need hospital treatment. The first groups to be vaccinated here in UK are the people most likely to become severely ill .The UK government aims to vaccinate the most vulnerable people by mid-February. It will be interesting to see how much demand for hospital treatment fall from March onwards.

Who knows, we might have high levels of infection here in the UK but few people becoming seriously ill 6-8 weeks from now. End of the nightmare and time to go back to normal life? Does it matter so much if people contract a virus that does not make them very ill after those vulnerable to severe ilness have been protected?
 
bennett123
Posts: 11522
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:50 pm

This assumes that only the elderly or those with pre existing medical conditions are severely affected by COVID.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 6391
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:56 pm

It is my belief that the more we try to prevent contagion, the more virulent the virus becomes... that's just how evolution works.

Fortunately, upcoming mass vaccination should reduce the incidence of severe cases requiring hospitalizations and reduce the load on the healthcare system to more normal and manageable levels, along with greatly reducing the mortality rate. This is and should be the only goal.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4596
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:06 pm

Francoflier wrote:
It is my belief that the more we try to prevent contagion, the more virulent the virus becomes... that's just how evolution works.

Fortunately, upcoming mass vaccination should reduce the incidence of severe cases requiring hospitalizations and reduce the load on the healthcare system to more normal and manageable levels, along with greatly reducing the mortality rate. This is and should be the only goal.


Just to correct your language, more virulent means that the virus is deadlier. I think you mean more contagious as none of the variants detected have presented themselves more deadly than the initial strain of Covid.

I would be interested to know if you theory does have have and real truth to it. Mutations and evolution are linked to reproduction cycles and not time so the more the virus replicates the more mutations happen and those that are favorable dominate which appears to be what has happened here. The various mutations of Covid have really changed it from a zoonotic virus to a human one.

There is also the factor of adaptability and while viruses don't have brains you are right that all organisms learn to adapt to adverse conditions.

A future pandemic I fear much more than Covid is that we might one day encounter an antibiotic resistant bacteria and that will make Covid19 look like child's play. That is an example of exactly what you are talking about, an organism adapting to an external force that can kill it.
 
art
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:49 pm

Technical question here...

Should people who have had COVID-19 (and recovered) be vaccinated after everyone else has been vaccinated? People who have had the virus should be less likely to suffer serious effects if they catch it again. Arguably it does not make sense to 'waste' vaccine on people unlikely to fall ill at the expense of others with no immunity, does it?
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 16089
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:15 pm

art wrote:
Technical question here...

Should people who have had COVID-19 (and recovered) be vaccinated after everyone else has been vaccinated? People who have had the virus should be less likely to suffer serious effects if they catch it again. Arguably it does not make sense to 'waste' vaccine on people unlikely to fall ill at the expense of others with no immunity, does it?



It's questionable. Recent studies have pinned immunity at 3-5 months. I think people most susceptible should get it when available. No matter whether having it. However having survived it, maybe they will be better judges of what their symptoms were and how long they can hold off.
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 6391
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:07 am

StarAC17 wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
It is my belief that the more we try to prevent contagion, the more virulent the virus becomes... that's just how evolution works.

Fortunately, upcoming mass vaccination should reduce the incidence of severe cases requiring hospitalizations and reduce the load on the healthcare system to more normal and manageable levels, along with greatly reducing the mortality rate. This is and should be the only goal.


Just to correct your language, more virulent means that the virus is deadlier. I think you mean more contagious as none of the variants detected have presented themselves more deadly than the initial strain of Covid.


I did mean more contagious. Thanks for the correction.
 
737307
Posts: 2945
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:27 am

Is it usually the case that the more contagious a virus the less virulent it becomes? Or is there no correlation?
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4596
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:02 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Is it usually the case that the more contagious a virus the less virulent it becomes? Or is there no correlation?


Not necessarily true initially but if Covid19 killed something like 10% of people of all ages. We would take the protocols far more seriously than we are doing. Smallpox spread in a similar fashion to Covid (droplets and surfaces) and had a 30% mortality rate.

What does tend to happen is that if a virus kills a lot of its hosts then it doesn't spread well because usually the people who get sick know it and isolate and death of the host means death of the virus.

A virus like Covid that isn't as deadly is sneaky being the most contagious before symptoms show and has a very high asymptomatic rate. The common cold persists because it doesn't make you that sick, that is a very successful virus.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18391
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:41 am

StarAC17 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Is it usually the case that the more contagious a virus the less virulent it becomes? Or is there no correlation?


Not necessarily true initially but if Covid19 killed something like 10% of people of all ages. We would take the protocols far more seriously than we are doing. Smallpox spread in a similar fashion to Covid (droplets and surfaces) and had a 30% mortality rate.

What does tend to happen is that if a virus kills a lot of its hosts then it doesn't spread well because usually the people who get sick know it and isolate and death of the host means death of the virus.

A virus like Covid that isn't as deadly is sneaky being the most contagious before symptoms show and has a very high asymptomatic rate. The common cold persists because it doesn't make you that sick, that is a very successful virus.


Dr. Michael Baker, the architect of New Zealand's containment approach, speaks to Channel 4 here today about why their success is not merely an 'island country' phenomenon. He has been retained by a trade group in the UK interested in bringing cases down rapidly to help the economy. Have to say, his explanation is supremely logical.

https://youtu.be/FANHtSqU6JU?t=280
 
melpax
Posts: 2337
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:11 am

4 people who flew on the EY Aus Open charter flights from LAX to MEL have tested positive for COVID. Included an EY crew member, a coach & a US broadcaster. As a result all pax from the 2 flights have been declared close contacts & those who are players not allowed to leave their rooms to train. The Quarantine arrangements for the tennis allow players to leave their hotels for 5 hours of daily training, under government supervision.

Some players are complaining, but they're not getting much sympathy from Melbournians, given the Stage 4 lockdown we endured last year that included a curfew & strict movement limits. People here are worried that a 3rd wave could happen as a result of The Open, we've only just got back to something that resembles some normality, although masks are still required when shopping & on public transport, and there are still limits on gatherings.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 56ur8.html
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 12531
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:44 am

melpax wrote:
4 people who flew on the EY Aus Open charter flights from LAX to MEL have tested positive for COVID. Included an EY crew member, a coach & a US broadcaster. As a result all pax from the 2 flights have been declared close contacts & those who are players not allowed to leave their rooms to train. The Quarantine arrangements for the tennis allow players to leave their hotels for 5 hours of daily training, under government supervision.

Some players are complaining, but they're not getting much sympathy from Melbournians, given the Stage 4 lockdown we endured last year that included a curfew & strict movement limits. People here are worried that a 3rd wave could happen as a result of The Open, we've only just got back to something that resembles some normality, although masks are still required when shopping & on public transport, and there are still limits on gatherings.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 56ur8.html


I think it was 1 EY flight and one QR flight that is involved here. The LAX-MEL flight was operated by QR.

Anyway this is not good news and the open probably shouldnt be going ahead considering internal borders are closed atm. Once again we are seeing highly paid sports players whining about quarantine, first it was the Indian cricket team and now tennis players. They would have known that quarantine was always on the cards, I dont believe for a second that they didnt know about certain things. I would hate to see Melbourne go backwards after all the hard work that has been put there turning things around. Either these overly entitled sports players comply with our rules or they can simply get on the next flight and bugger off back to where they came from
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 6391
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:49 am

melpax wrote:
4 people who flew on the EY Aus Open charter flights from LAX to MEL have tested positive for COVID. Included an EY crew member, a coach & a US broadcaster. As a result all pax from the 2 flights have been declared close contacts & those who are players not allowed to leave their rooms to train. The Quarantine arrangements for the tennis allow players to leave their hotels for 5 hours of daily training, under government supervision.

Some players are complaining, but they're not getting much sympathy from Melbournians, given the Stage 4 lockdown we endured last year that included a curfew & strict movement limits. People here are worried that a 3rd wave could happen as a result of The Open, we've only just got back to something that resembles some normality, although masks are still required when shopping & on public transport, and there are still limits on gatherings.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 56ur8.html


This is ridiculous.
Australia is going to have to choose between their zero-tolerance, zero case, complete isolation approach and organizing major international sports tournaments...

You can't have it both ways.

All those thousands of Australians effectively prevented from flying back to their own country must be rightfully furious right now.
 
melpax
Posts: 2337
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:05 am

Francoflier wrote:
This is ridiculous.
Australia is going to have to choose between their zero-tolerance, zero case, complete isolation approach and organizing major international sports tournaments...

You can't have it both ways.

All those thousands of Australians effectively prevented from flying back to their own country must be rightfully furious right now.


They are....

And the kicker, is that the players who flew into MEL were only allowed to bring 1 support person or coach with them, no entourages. The top players flew into ADL, where the South Australian government allowed them to bring their usual entourages. Pictures of Serena Williams arriving with her family in ADL have not been well received, given as you've said, there's still thousands of Australians stranded overseas.
 
art
Posts: 5174
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:14 am

How many people involved in the Open will come from outside Oz? I think the competition would normally have 128 players in the first round (x2 for both genders). Then there are the coaches physios etc. 500 in all at most? If they are all subject to quarantine, is there a risk of any infected among them passing the virus on?

I take the point if there are Australians being denied return to Oz, this is a slap in the face for them.
 
melpax
Posts: 2337
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:45 am

art wrote:
How many people involved in the Open will come from outside Oz? I think the competition would normally have 128 players in the first round (x2 for both genders). Then there are the coaches physios etc. 500 in all at most? If they are all subject to quarantine, is there a risk of any infected among them passing the virus on?

I take the point if there are Australians being denied return to Oz, this is a slap in the face for them.


From what's been reported there's around 1200 people who are coming from outside Australia. As I posted earlier, players who are flying direct to MEL are only allowed to bring 1 support person or coach with them, while the top players such as Williams, Osaka, etc have flown into ADL where the state government there have allowed them to bring their usual entourages. You also have officials & media travelling as well.

The concern isn't the travellers themselves, but for an infected traveller infecting a quarantine or hotel staff member & the virus getting out that way. The MEL hard lockdown last year was initially caused by the virus escaping hotel quarantine via poorly trained private security guards, hence why people in MEL are very nervous ATM.

There have also been recent cases in SYD & BNE where the virus has got out via hotel staff & an airport bus driver.

The State Government here took full control of Hotel Quarantine after this happened, all security staff at quarantine hotels are now state government employees, who are tested daily, and police are also involved with patrolling/guarding these hotels as well. The state Corrections Commissioner was also put in charge of quarantine arrangements.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 12531
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:25 pm

melpax wrote:
4 people who flew on the EY Aus Open charter flights from LAX to MEL have tested positive for COVID. Included an EY crew member, a coach & a US broadcaster. As a result all pax from the 2 flights have been declared close contacts & those who are players not allowed to leave their rooms to train. The Quarantine arrangements for the tennis allow players to leave their hotels for 5 hours of daily training, under government supervision.

Some players are complaining, but they're not getting much sympathy from Melbournians, given the Stage 4 lockdown we endured last year that included a curfew & strict movement limits. People here are worried that a 3rd wave could happen as a result of The Open, we've only just got back to something that resembles some normality, although masks are still required when shopping & on public transport, and there are still limits on gatherings.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 56ur8.html


Make that 3 flights now after a passenger tested positive on a flight from DOH on Saturday, a total of 47 players now in strict lockdown

https://twitter.com/australian/status/1 ... 34757?s=20

https://twitter.com/7NewsPerth/status/1 ... 74499?s=20
 
cpd
Posts: 7484
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:14 pm

Francoflier wrote:
melpax wrote:
4 people who flew on the EY Aus Open charter flights from LAX to MEL have tested positive for COVID. Included an EY crew member, a coach & a US broadcaster. As a result all pax from the 2 flights have been declared close contacts & those who are players not allowed to leave their rooms to train. The Quarantine arrangements for the tennis allow players to leave their hotels for 5 hours of daily training, under government supervision.

Some players are complaining, but they're not getting much sympathy from Melbournians, given the Stage 4 lockdown we endured last year that included a curfew & strict movement limits. People here are worried that a 3rd wave could happen as a result of The Open, we've only just got back to something that resembles some normality, although masks are still required when shopping & on public transport, and there are still limits on gatherings.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 56ur8.html


This is ridiculous.
Australia is going to have to choose between their zero-tolerance, zero case, complete isolation approach and organizing major international sports tournaments...

You can't have it both ways.

All those thousands of Australians effectively prevented from flying back to their own country must be rightfully furious right now.


It’s crazy, but our governments are addicted to having their big sporting events. In NSW it was the cricket, in Victoria the Tennis.

Shouldn’t have gone ahead. Especially not when Australians overseas cannot get a flight home even for huge ticket prices.
 
737307
Posts: 2945
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:25 pm

cpd wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
melpax wrote:
4 people who flew on the EY Aus Open charter flights from LAX to MEL have tested positive for COVID. Included an EY crew member, a coach & a US broadcaster. As a result all pax from the 2 flights have been declared close contacts & those who are players not allowed to leave their rooms to train. The Quarantine arrangements for the tennis allow players to leave their hotels for 5 hours of daily training, under government supervision.

Some players are complaining, but they're not getting much sympathy from Melbournians, given the Stage 4 lockdown we endured last year that included a curfew & strict movement limits. People here are worried that a 3rd wave could happen as a result of The Open, we've only just got back to something that resembles some normality, although masks are still required when shopping & on public transport, and there are still limits on gatherings.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 56ur8.html


This is ridiculous.
Australia is going to have to choose between their zero-tolerance, zero case, complete isolation approach and organizing major international sports tournaments...

You can't have it both ways.

All those thousands of Australians effectively prevented from flying back to their own country must be rightfully furious right now.


It’s crazy, but our governments are addicted to having their big sporting events. In NSW it was the cricket, in Victoria the Tennis.

Shouldn’t have gone ahead. Especially not when Australians overseas cannot get a flight home even for huge ticket prices.


More proof of "Rules for Thee but Not For Me".
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9364
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:52 pm

I really don’t think the Australian Open should be still going ahead, it is incongruous with our suppression/elimination strategy and a slap in the face to Australians overseas who aren’t allowed back into their own country.

I have zero sympathy for the players and staff though. Some are saying they weren’t told, but I find that impossible to believe. They must have been wilfully blind to not know that Australia has strict quarantine requirements. Federer withdrew as he didn’t want to go through the process, which is entirely the right thing to do. For those who came and are now whinging, I will not listen to over-entitled, self-centred minor ‘celebs’ complain about having to comply with the same restrictions as every other arrival. They are welcome to fly home if they don’t like it here.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2574
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
I really don’t think the Australian Open should be still going ahead, it is incongruous with our suppression/elimination strategy and a slap in the face to Australians overseas who aren’t allowed back into their own country.

I have zero sympathy for the players and staff though. Some are saying they weren’t told, but I find that impossible to believe. They must have been wilfully blind to not know that Australia has strict quarantine requirements. Federer withdrew as he didn’t want to go through the process, which is entirely the right thing to do. For those who came and are now whinging, I will not listen to over-entitled, self-centred minor ‘celebs’ complain about having to comply with the same restrictions as every other arrival. They are welcome to fly home if they don’t like it here.


I also find it difficult to believe that the rules were not made clear to the overseas administrators and subsequently players and coaches. It is a very embarrassing situation for the Victorian Government to have felt itself held hostage and forced to let the Open go ahead, lest the fixture be lost to another country. Given the pain the state went through with a hard lockdown, it would be a major threat to a popular Government to let the tennis people get away with things which saw the broader population in hard lockdown for four months.

There are currently Victorians in other Australian states having trouble getting approval to travel their homes, let alone residents stranded overseas. Residents of Sydney are also currently locked out of Victoria, yet these tennis players are allowed in, even though there isn't a Covid-free bubble.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18391
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:04 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
cpd wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

This is ridiculous.
Australia is going to have to choose between their zero-tolerance, zero case, complete isolation approach and organizing major international sports tournaments...

You can't have it both ways.

All those thousands of Australians effectively prevented from flying back to their own country must be rightfully furious right now.


It’s crazy, but our governments are addicted to having their big sporting events. In NSW it was the cricket, in Victoria the Tennis.

Shouldn’t have gone ahead. Especially not when Australians overseas cannot get a flight home even for huge ticket prices.


More proof of "Rules for Thee but Not For Me".


This is nothing - just wait till Tokyo puts on this summer’s Olympics!
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 15982
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:19 pm

bennett123 wrote:
This assumes that only the elderly or those with pre existing medical conditions are severely affected by COVID.


They're the ones that are statistically far more affected yes, but I'd hate to be hit badly by COVID, now that there is a vaccine...
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:53 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
cpd wrote:

It’s crazy, but our governments are addicted to having their big sporting events. In NSW it was the cricket, in Victoria the Tennis.

Shouldn’t have gone ahead. Especially not when Australians overseas cannot get a flight home even for huge ticket prices.


More proof of "Rules for Thee but Not For Me".


This is nothing - just wait till Tokyo puts on this summer’s Olympics!



The combined effect of summer and way more people having the vaccine by then makes it much easier
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18391
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:14 am

LNCS0930 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

More proof of "Rules for Thee but Not For Me".


This is nothing - just wait till Tokyo puts on this summer’s Olympics!



The combined effect of summer and way more people having the vaccine by then makes it much easier


Not in Japan’s case - HCW will start getting vaccine in Feb, elderly people in March...general public likely not until May.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4596
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:42 pm

cpd wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
melpax wrote:
4 people who flew on the EY Aus Open charter flights from LAX to MEL have tested positive for COVID. Included an EY crew member, a coach & a US broadcaster. As a result all pax from the 2 flights have been declared close contacts & those who are players not allowed to leave their rooms to train. The Quarantine arrangements for the tennis allow players to leave their hotels for 5 hours of daily training, under government supervision.

Some players are complaining, but they're not getting much sympathy from Melbournians, given the Stage 4 lockdown we endured last year that included a curfew & strict movement limits. People here are worried that a 3rd wave could happen as a result of The Open, we've only just got back to something that resembles some normality, although masks are still required when shopping & on public transport, and there are still limits on gatherings.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 56ur8.html


This is ridiculous.
Australia is going to have to choose between their zero-tolerance, zero case, complete isolation approach and organizing major international sports tournaments...

You can't have it both ways.

All those thousands of Australians effectively prevented from flying back to their own country must be rightfully furious right now.


It’s crazy, but our governments are addicted to having their big sporting events. In NSW it was the cricket, in Victoria the Tennis.

Shouldn’t have gone ahead. Especially not when Australians overseas cannot get a flight home even for huge ticket prices.


It would have probably pissed off the Australian public more but there should have been some degree of bubble for on court personnel (players, line judges, chair umps etc.). They come to play and go to an isolated hotel with no other interaction with the general public what so ever and press conferences would be virtual. This would exempt the 2 week quarantine but they are continuously tracked.

The Australian Grand Prix is postponed until November citing the Covid rules, that is tougher asking teams to quarantine for 2 weeks for an event that lasts 3 days.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/55625606
 
melpax
Posts: 2337
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:10 pm

[quote="StarAC17"][/quote]

Problem is that there's also thousands of locals also in support roles.

Most of the ball kids are locals, possibly some of the officials, media, medical staff and stadium staff.

They would all have to be part of the bubble as well, and then quarantine for 2 weeks after, this would be unworkable. And not to mention that the open would have to be played behind closed doors.

Unworkable, and there is a massive risk of the virus escaping the bubble...

The football season here was played in a bubble last year outside of Victoria, but everyone coming from Victoria (including players), had to quarantine for 2 weeks initially.
 
FGITD
Posts: 2184
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:52 pm

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/repo ... stribution

To the great surprise of what should be absolutely no one, there was no plan to distribute vaccines. Or deal with Covid at all.

This inaction is criminal. 400,000 dead Americans, a vaccine that will help us all, and the so called “leader” went golfing.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:02 pm

FGITD wrote:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-biden-admin-discovers-trump-had-zero-plans-for-covid-vaccine-distribution

To the great surprise of what should be absolutely no one, there was no plan to distribute vaccines. Or deal with Covid at all.

This inaction is criminal. 400,000 dead Americans, a vaccine that will help us all, and the so called “leader” went golfing.


Vaccine was developed at a questionably rapid pace. Not sure why we are having production or distribution issues now.

It was not inaction. It was a tail wagging the dog. Trump knew his base wouldn't like to wear masks, so he bet on it by not enforcing such policy.

Even Biden cannot enforce mandated mask policy other than at places under federal jurisdiction.
 
cpd
Posts: 7484
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:22 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
FGITD wrote:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-biden-admin-discovers-trump-had-zero-plans-for-covid-vaccine-distribution

To the great surprise of what should be absolutely no one, there was no plan to distribute vaccines. Or deal with Covid at all.

This inaction is criminal. 400,000 dead Americans, a vaccine that will help us all, and the so called “leader” went golfing.


Vaccine was developed at a questionably rapid pace. Not sure why we are having production or distribution issues now.

It was not inaction. It was a tail wagging the dog. Trump knew his base wouldn't like to wear masks, so he bet on it by not enforcing such policy.

Even Biden cannot enforce mandated mask policy other than at places under federal jurisdiction.


They are going to have to get over it and wear a mask. Yes they are annoying but it’s better than the alternative.

If the USA had acted responsibly earlier on - it might not be in the mess it is now and it might be back to a more normal footing without so many deaths.
 
737307
Posts: 2945
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q1 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:39 pm

Looks like we are playing "Who Is Doing Worst?" again.
How about Spain: +227% increase in COVID-19 cases. Total reported to date: 2.4+(!!!) million.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... cases.html
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 10

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Taxi645 and 8 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos