Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021

ArchGuy1 · Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:15 pm

The MV Astoria was supposed to be auctioned today, but there were no buyers. The asking price was about 10 million euros and the court will now have a second auction with a lower price. Wonder why that is no one is interested?
https://www.cruiseharbournews.com/Astoriaauc.html

bennett123 · Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:12 pm

The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.

If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.

ArchGuy1 · Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:46 pm

bennett123 wrote:
The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.

If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.

Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?

johns624 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:34 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.

If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.

Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?

No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

ArchGuy1 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:53 am

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.

If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.

Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?

No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

This is not the first time a company operating the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy.

johns624 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:57 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?

No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

This is not the first time a company operating the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy.

So what does that tell you about the financial viability of operating an old ship as a hotel?

ArchGuy1 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:21 am

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

This is not the first time a company operating the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy.
So what does that tell you about the financial viability of operating an old ship as a hotel?

The model of the Queen Mary with the City of Long Beach owning it and leasing it out to operators is not viable.

FGITD · Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:19 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
This is not the first time a company operating the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy.
So what does that tell you about the financial viability of operating an old ship as a hotel?

The model of the Queen Mary with the City of Long Beach owning it and leasing it out to operators is not viable.

If the city sold it to the actual operator, she'd almost definitely be scrapped. Businesses don't hold onto expensive, money losing assets just for history's sake

OA260 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:14 am

Royal Caribbean will be 'first' to offer 'fully vaccinated' cruise with sailings starting in Israel

Royal Caribbean's newest ship "Odyssey of the Seas" is set to debut in May with departures from Israel with all passengers and crew over the age of 16 vaccinated.

"In conjunction with Israel’s health and tourism authorities, Royal Caribbean will be the first to offer fully vaccinated sailings, where both crew and guests above the age of 16 will be vaccinated against COVID-19," the cruise line said in a statement posted to its website.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6871142002

bennett123 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:43 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56196069

Interesting little piece about the Magellan and Marco Polo.

As far as the Astoria is concerned, I think the Stockholm is best forgotten.

As a cruise ship, it could have a future, but is somewhat a niche market. Clearly it can't compete head on with the floating resorts.

However, that is a bit of a punt and will depend on her cos and condition.

ArchGuy1 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:55 pm

bennett123 wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56196069

Interesting little piece about the Magellan and Marco Polo.

As far as the Astoria is concerned, I think the Stockholm is best forgotten.

As a cruise ship, it could have a future, but is somewhat a niche market. Clearly it can't compete head on with the floating resorts.

However, that is a bit of a punt and will depend on her cos and condition.

The Doulos was preserved as a boutique hotel on an Indonesian island despite undergoing similar modifications to Stockholm/Astoria over the years, including a complete rebuild of the superstructure.

bennett123 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:08 pm

What reason do you have for thinking that this won't end up going to the breakers like the Marco Polo.

ArchGuy1 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:14 pm

bennett123 wrote:
What reason do you have for thinking that this won't end up going to the breakers like the Marco Polo.

Colliding with and sinking the Andrea Doria, the last SAL liner in existence, the only SAL liner built in Sweden, and the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in service right before COVID-19.

BlueberryWheats · Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:43 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
What reason do you have for thinking that this won't end up going to the breakers like the Marco Polo.

Colliding with and sinking the Andrea Doria, the last SAL liner in existence, the only SAL liner built in Sweden, and the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in service right before COVID-19.

Trouble is, not enough average folk are aware of SAL or looking to specifically book a stay on a ship that was the cause of a maritime disaster.

ArchGuy1 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:16 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
What reason do you have for thinking that this won't end up going to the breakers like the Marco Polo.

Colliding with and sinking the Andrea Doria, the last SAL liner in existence, the only SAL liner built in Sweden, and the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in service right before COVID-19.

Trouble is, not enough average folk are aware of SAL or looking to specifically book a stay on a ship that was the cause of a maritime disaster.

Was the average person aware of SAL in the 1960's and early 1970's?

BlueberryWheats · Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:47 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Colliding with and sinking the Andrea Doria, the last SAL liner in existence, the only SAL liner built in Sweden, and the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in service right before COVID-19.

Trouble is, not enough average folk are aware of SAL or looking to specifically book a stay on a ship that was the cause of a maritime disaster.

Was the average person aware of SAL in the 1960's and early 1970's?

I don't know, I wasn't alive until the late 80's. And why does it matter? We're talking about now.

johns624 · Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:58 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Colliding with and sinking the Andrea Doria, the last SAL liner in existence, the only SAL liner built in Sweden, and the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in service right before COVID-19.

Trouble is, not enough average folk are aware of SAL or looking to specifically book a stay on a ship that was the cause of a maritime disaster.

Was the average person aware of SAL in the 1960's and early 1970's?

No, and those people are at least in their 60s, if not 70s now. Not the demographic that you want to base an attraction on.

ArchGuy1 · Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:54 am

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.

If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.

Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?

No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm

FGITD · Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:42 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?

No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm

But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.

The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.

ArchGuy1 · Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:13 am

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm

But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.

The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.

Did the average person actually care about ships like QE2, Queen Mary, SS Norway, and the two Love Boat ships back in the 1980's?

johns624 · Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:28 pm

FGITD wrote:

The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.

You're being overly generous with the time...

johns624 · Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:30 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Did the average person actually care about ships like QE2, Queen Mary, SS Norway, and the two Love Boat ships back in the 1980's?

NO! Most people are too busy working, supporting themselves, going on vacation and building a life.

ArchGuy1 · Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:11 am

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm

But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.

The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.

Did you even read everything in those entire pages, because if you do, you will understand more?

johns624 · Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:20 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm

But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.

The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.

Did you even read everything in those entire pages, because if you do, you will understand more?

I will, right after you listen to what people have been telling YOU for the last year...99.9% of people don't give a rat's ass about old cruise ships, ocean liners, bridges or buildings. Like I posted earlier, the company that runs the QM, the most famous ocean liner still around, has filed for bankruptcy. People don't GAF! I spent my wedding night on the QM, and IDGAF. I know you like asking everyone questions but don't you dare ask me what it was like!

FGITD · Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:56 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm

But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.

The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.

Did you even read everything in those entire pages, because if you do, you will understand more?

I didn’t read the entire page, because I felt the sections about its construction, entry to service etc weren’t exactly relevant to the retirement and scrapping.

But AGAIN, it’s not a source. A source would be an unbiased news article stating that people were upset about it being scrapped, not a fan page committed to preserving the history of the ship.

Kiwirob · Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:56 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.

If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.

Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?

No, she looks nothing like she did as Stockholm. There is nothing historic about her anymore that’s worth preserving.

Kiwirob · Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:04 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm

But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.

The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.

Did the average person actually care about ships like QE2, Queen Mary, SS Norway, and the two Love Boat ships back in the 1980's?

The encased to that is also no. I will grant you that Norwegians loves SS Norway, but they didn’t love her enough to want her to become a museum or hotel ship. I think the same could also be said about QE2 and British people but again no one in the U.K. cared enough to want to keep her. I doubt she’ll last more than 20 in her current location before the financial burden will become to much and she’s scrapped.

johns624 · Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:43 pm

The other drawback to preserving these ships is how large they are. Freighters can dock at terminals away from the public eye. A museum ship has to be docked where it's very accessible to the public. That really cuts down on the number of docks available. With the explosion in cruise ship sailings (pre-Covid), most ports want to keep these piers open for cruise ships. The passengers will bring in much more revenue than an old, rusting hulk that very few people will travel to see.

OA260 · Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:22 pm

Virgin Voyages today announced its third newbuild will carry the name Resilient Lady and will set sail from Athens, Greece, embarking on two, seven-night itineraries starting in July 2022.

“Sailing in the Med is such an extraordinary experience, and we’re so excited to bring the adventure of a Virgin Voyage to this beautiful place,” said Sir Richard Branson, Founder of Virgin Group. “I’m so proud of the incredible work the team has accomplished to introduce Resilient Lady.”

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... aries.html

na · Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:21 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.

If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.

Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?

No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

I thought of it the other day. Not surprising in the current climate.
Be it as it is, the Queen Mary is the world´s sole survivor of an era. And it significantly contributed to winning WWII by transporting a large part of the US troops to Europe which together with the British liberated France and conquered Nazi Germany. Churchill once said, she and near sistership Queen Elizabeth shortened the war by a year. Therefore, historically, its a much more important vessel than any battleship or aircraft carrier that did survive.

Btw I spend two nights on QM two years ago. Got to love that Grand Old Lady.

ArchGuy1 · Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:43 pm

na wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?

No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

I thought of it the other day. Not surprising in the current climate.
Be it as it is, the Queen Mary is the world´s sole survivor of an era. And it significantly contributed to winning WWII by transporting a large part of the US troops to Europe which together with the British liberated France and conquered Nazi Germany. Churchill once said, she and near sistership Queen Elizabeth shortened the war by a year. Therefore, historically, its a much more important vessel than any battleship or aircraft carrier that did survive.

Btw I spend two nights on QM two years ago. Got to love that Grand Old Lady.

The Queen Mary certainly sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, which is about the same as the Seattle Space Needle and the observation deck of the Sears Tower.

FGITD · Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:46 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
na wrote:
johns624 wrote:
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.

I thought of it the other day. Not surprising in the current climate.
Be it as it is, the Queen Mary is the world´s sole survivor of an era. And it significantly contributed to winning WWII by transporting a large part of the US troops to Europe which together with the British liberated France and conquered Nazi Germany. Churchill once said, she and near sistership Queen Elizabeth shortened the war by a year. Therefore, historically, its a much more important vessel than any battleship or aircraft carrier that did survive.

Btw I spend two nights on QM two years ago. Got to love that Grand Old Lady.

The Queen Mary certainly sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, which is about the same as the Seattle Space Needle and the observation deck of the Sears Tower.

And yet somehow seemingly every company that touches Queen Mary ends up bankrupt. What does that tell you?

na · Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:19 pm

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
na wrote:

I thought of it the other day. Not surprising in the current climate.
Be it as it is, the Queen Mary is the world´s sole survivor of an era. And it significantly contributed to winning WWII by transporting a large part of the US troops to Europe which together with the British liberated France and conquered Nazi Germany. Churchill once said, she and near sistership Queen Elizabeth shortened the war by a year. Therefore, historically, its a much more important vessel than any battleship or aircraft carrier that did survive.

Btw I spend two nights on QM two years ago. Got to love that Grand Old Lady.

The Queen Mary certainly sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, which is about the same as the Seattle Space Needle and the observation deck of the Sears Tower.

And yet somehow seemingly every company that touches Queen Mary ends up bankrupt. What does that tell you?

That it needs to be maintained by public funds for a part. Like any very important landmark. Queen Mary is the most significant institution of Long Beach, and over that, unique in the world.
You can't measure everything by $$$ income.

ltbewr · Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:50 pm

One issue that may hold up the reopening of the cruise line industry, perhaps well into 2022, will be the need to make sure 'herd immunity', mainly by distribution of vaccines to at least 80% of where ships will make ports of call and crews come from. Many of those locations have seen massive losses of income from the pandemic, will have difficulty affording or even getting access to vaccines as bought up first by developed and rich countries like the USA, Canada, and those in Europe. I wish and hope that the USA and EU countries once that have largely covered themselves as to vaccines provide and assist with distribution at no or little cost to them. The delays may also sadly mean more older, smaller and less efficient ships heading to the scrappers.

c933103 · Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:10 pm

https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/economy/20200501-OYT1T50145/
The ferry line that connect Japan and South Korea to Vladivostok of Russia have handed its permit back to government, essentially meaning the route have been abolished. They have tried to seek alternative operator but failed.
The route was suspended even before the start of pandemic, in late 2019 when diplomatic dispute between Japan and Korea lead to boycott movement which caused a significant drop in number of tourists between the two countries.
Since the line's launch in 2009, it never attained profit, and have an accumulated lost of about 4 Billion Yen or 40 Million USD.

OA260 · Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:28 pm

For anyone looking at taking a bet there are some great offers with Princess cruises at the moment for early next year. £50 deposit and free drinks - wifi - grats. Some bargains to be had.

c933103 · Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:29 pm

ltbewr wrote:
One issue that may hold up the reopening of the cruise line industry, perhaps well into 2022, will be the need to make sure 'herd immunity', mainly by distribution of vaccines to at least 80% of where ships will make ports of call and crews come from. Many of those locations have seen massive losses of income from the pandemic, will have difficulty affording or even getting access to vaccines as bought up first by developed and rich countries like the USA, Canada, and those in Europe. I wish and hope that the USA and EU countries once that have largely covered themselves as to vaccines provide and assist with distribution at no or little cost to them. The delays may also sadly mean more older, smaller and less efficient ships heading to the scrappers.

I don't think herd immunity at destination and from country where crews originate are that important l, since the idea of herd immunity mean even if there are some viruses, the immunity will make its transmission not being sustainable, as such if everyone on the ship are vaccinated and if destination countries found comfortable to open up then it should be acceptable

FGITD · Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:57 pm

na wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Queen Mary certainly sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, which is about the same as the Seattle Space Needle and the observation deck of the Sears Tower.

And yet somehow seemingly every company that touches Queen Mary ends up bankrupt. What does that tell you?

That it needs to be maintained by public funds for a part. Like any very important landmark. Queen Mary is the most significant institution of Long Beach, and over that, unique in the world.
You can't measure everything by $$$ income.

You can when it's supposed to be a money making endeavour.

It's not an important landmark. It's a ship. One that has been sitting at a pier, in a city it never visited, losing money, for longer than it was ever in service. Apply that logic to any other business and try to rationalize it.

I'm all for preserving her, but not propping up the business with public funds. Taxpayers in 2021 shouldn't bear the financial burden of a decision made from nostalgia for a ship none of them ever sailed on.

OA260 · Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:02 pm

BREAKING :

Sailings on Queen Victoria are now cancelled for departures up to and including 27 August 2021.
With many of Queen Elizabeth’s summer itineraries also visiting international ports, and with cruises departing outside of the UK being unlikely for some time yet, we are cancelling Queen Elizabeth’s summer Mediterranean fly cruise season and all departures up to and including 11 October 2021.
Queen Mary 2’s current programme is affected by a number of factors and all departures up to and including November 12, 2021 are unfortunately cancelled.

Just got an email from Cunard .

johns624 · Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:09 pm

na wrote:
Queen Mary is the most significant institution of Long Beach.

That's really not saying much... Ever been to Long Beach?

OA260 · Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:53 pm

Seems an MSC cruise ship has gone on fire in Corfu .

frmrCapCadet · Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:50 pm

We lived in Long Beach for three years. We never visited the Queen Mary. While it doesn't bother me at all I didn't, we should have.

ArchGuy1 · Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:38 pm

OA260 wrote:
Seems an MSC cruise ship has gone on fire in Corfu .

That is the MSC Lirica.

na · Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:40 pm

OA260 wrote:
Seems an MSC cruise ship has gone on fire in Corfu .

MS Lirica, 59.000 GRT. Seems to be a very massive fire on the boat deck. However, it is under control now. I wonder if its worth repairing in this climate. Only 17 years old, yes, but its the veteran in the fleet, and MSC hasn't send a ship for scrap yet.

na · Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:47 pm

FGITD wrote:
na wrote:
FGITD wrote:

And yet somehow seemingly every company that touches Queen Mary ends up bankrupt. What does that tell you?

That it needs to be maintained by public funds for a part. Like any very important landmark. Queen Mary is the most significant institution of Long Beach, and over that, unique in the world.
You can't measure everything by $$$ income.

You can when it's supposed to be a money making endeavour.

It's not an important landmark. It's a ship. One that has been sitting at a pier, in a city it never visited, losing money, for longer than it was ever in service. Apply that logic to any other business and try to rationalize it.

I'm all for preserving her, but not propping up the business with public funds. Taxpayers in 2021 shouldn't bear the financial burden of a decision made from nostalgia for a ship none of them ever sailed on.

I never lived in a palace. Still I am fine if important palaces and castles are being saved by taxpayers money. Its called heritage and culture. The same to me applies to the Queen Mary. Its a very, very important historic showpiece. Something of the significance of the Chrysler Building in NYC, but more important if it comes to what it meant for history. Of course you can't save all things that some think they are worth it. The rusty shell of the SS United States for instance is not worth preserving in comparison.

jetwet1 · Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:20 pm

na wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Seems an MSC cruise ship has gone on fire in Corfu .

MS Lirica, 59.000 GRT. Seems to be a very massive fire on the boat deck. However, it is under control now. I wonder if its worth repairing in this climate. Only 17 years old, yes, but its the veteran in the fleet, and MSC hasn't send a ship for scrap yet.

Looks like it started in one of the lifeboats.

this video has some good pictures of the end result.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZjDqj1AkAU

Amazing that it took over an hour for the local fire fighting tugs to show up....

johns624 · Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:35 pm

jetwet1 wrote:

Amazing that it took over an hour for the local fire fighting tugs to show up....

No, it said it took them an hour to get it under control, not that it took them an hour to show up.

jetwet1 · Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:32 pm

johns624 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:

Amazing that it took over an hour for the local fire fighting tugs to show up....
No, it said it took them an hour to get it under control, not that it took them an hour to show up.

Thank you for correcting me, I miss heard that and am clearly wrong.

Those balconies above took a beating, in normal times it would be repaired, now, who knows ?

johns624 · Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:51 am

Maybe MSC is on to something... Instead of getting scrap value, have insurance write it off and you'll get more money. Just don't do it too often...

bananaboy · Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:36 pm

na wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Seems an MSC cruise ship has gone on fire in Corfu .

MS Lirica, 59.000 GRT. Seems to be a very massive fire on the boat deck. However, it is under control now. I wonder if its worth repairing in this climate. Only 17 years old, yes, but its the veteran in the fleet, and MSC hasn't send a ship for scrap yet.

Minor correction but MSC Lirica is 65,000ish GRT. She was 59K GRT at her launch but was extended in 2015.

MSC Armonia is the oldest in their fleet. I wonder too if they'll consider retiring some of this class - they rarely seem to achieve the same rates as the newer fleet and the guest experience between their latest ships and Lirica, Sinfonia, Opera and Armonia is night and day.

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