Welcome to Cruise Ship/Ocean Liner Thread -2021. Please continue to add your comments below

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Thank you for a new thread and Happy New Year to everyone.

Its been a terrible 2020 for cruise ships but we do see some green shoots from next Summer. Maybe before for some markets. It will be interesting to watch how cruise lines deal with the return to operations and who survives.

Despite a tough year there were a number of new ship deliveries.


Despite the Pandemic, 16 New Cruise Ships Were Delivered in 2020

Sixteen new cruise ships were delivered in 2020, including three before the COVID-19 crisis was declared a pandemic, while most delivered after have yet to see revenue guests and await their official debuts in 2021.

www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/ ... -2020.html

I don't expect significant amounts of the cruise industry to be active until late 2021 - early 2022. It will take months to get new staffing together as many will be from counties where the vaccines may not reach them until late 2021-early 2022. You also have the likely slow restart the related air travel to ports. The big buffet food service will likely be suspended for well into 2022 and other mods will have to be made not only as to Covid-19 but other infectious diseases that have created huge problems in the past. On the good side, older, less fuel efficient and higher polluting ships will no longer be in use replaced by far better ones. There will be pent-up demand so after the initial months, pricing could be high.like in Spring 2022.

ltbewr wrote:

On the good side, older, less fuel efficient and higher polluting ships will no longer be in use replaced by far better ones.

Will they be turned into boutique hotels ?????

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Happy new year to everyone, stay safe.

It will be an interesting year for sure, I am left wondering if we are done with lines going out of business, the ones who were in immediate financial troubles are gone of course, but I have to wonder, outside of the the big 4-5 who have access to the markets for more capital, who is in trouble.

I know Ponant managed to alienate the majority of their regular customers with the stuff they pulled at the start of the pandemic (if you don't know what they did, google it, you will be shocked) but they have the backing of a billionaire owner who could be willing to put hit money into it, there are plenty of other smaller lines I can see going under if sailings don't start happening by summer.

Come on, be nice to the guy.

Some will be turned into hotels, some will be scrapped.

I have been watching this thread and most/all of the scrapped ones were 70,000T +. Perhaps, due to both COVID and concerns about over tourism, there will be a move to small vessels.

IMO, that would be no bad thing.

Hopefully, the fact that a good number of significant ships like the Sovereign of the Seas, Monarch of the Seas, Karnika, and Satoshi are being scrapped will be a wakeup call to have certain ships preserved rather than scrapped. Kind of like when old Penn Station in New York City was demolished in 1964 and led to Grand Central Terminal and other historical significant buildings and structures being preserved. In the maritime world, the scrapping of the SS Nieuw Amsterdam in 1974 led to an outcry in the Netherlands and the SS Rotterdam being preserved in her namesake city 35 years later. Also, the scrapping of the Finnjet in 2008 led to Johnny Sid saving the MV Bore in Turku as recently as 2010. The scrapping of the SS Norway in 2006 and SS Independence in 2009 led to NCL not selling the SS United States for scrap in 2011. Hope this will lead to a few cruise ships being preserved as hotel and museum ships rather than scrapped and two ships heading that route are Albatros and Carnival Fascination.

I think the key here is that Archguy needs to actually go on a cruise to appreciate what the ships are. From the outside/online they appear to be these immense wonders. Which, to a certain extent...they are.

But once you've really explored them, you realize that most cruise ships are designed as if they picked a deck layout, and copy/pasted it vertically 10-15 times. There's no real uniqueness because room 1001 looks the same as room 8001. You're meant to be able to board any ship from the same line, and have it look more or less the same as all the others.

FGITD wrote:

I think the key here is that Archguy needs to actually go on a cruise to appreciate what the ships are. From the outside/online they appear to be these immense wonders. Which, to a certain extent...they are.

But once you've really explored them, you realize that most cruise ships are designed as if they picked a deck layout, and copy/pasted it vertically 10-15 times. There's no real uniqueness because room 1001 looks the same as room 8001. You're meant to be able to board any ship from the same line, and have it look more or less the same as all the others.

Are they nothing like old Penn Station, Grand Central Terminal, the SS Nieuw Amsterdam (1938), SS Rotterdam (1959), Finnjet, MV Bore, SS Norway, SS Independence, or SS United States?

ArchGuy1 wrote:

FGITD wrote:

I think the key here is that Archguy needs to actually go on a cruise to appreciate what the ships are. From the outside/online they appear to be these immense wonders. Which, to a certain extent...they are.

But once you've really explored them, you realize that most cruise ships are designed as if they picked a deck layout, and copy/pasted it vertically 10-15 times. There's no real uniqueness because room 1001 looks the same as room 8001. You're meant to be able to board any ship from the same line, and have it look more or less the same as all the others.

Are they nothing like old Penn Station, Grand Central Terminal, the SS Nieuw Amsterdam (1938), SS Rotterdam (1959), Finnjet, MV Bore, SS Norway, SS Independence, or SS United States?

Well one of those was a train station, so not much common ground there.

And for the rest...no, absolutely not. Aside from being a ship, there’s really no common ground. Those ships were individually uniquely designed and outfitted. That’s how they stood out, by being the fastest or most ornate, or biggest and so on.

These days the ships are cookie cutter designs. The experience is meant to be homogeneous across the fleet because the cruise line needs you to like and want to return your business to the company, not reliant on the individual ship. You can even go as far as to request the “same” cabin on different ships of the same class to maintain that level of familiarity. Most cruise pax don’t set out to book a specific ship. They find an itinerary they like, and match it with whatever cruise line they have loyalty to or offers the best price.

FGITD wrote:

ArchGuy1 wrote:

FGITD wrote:

I think the key here is that Archguy needs to actually go on a cruise to appreciate what the ships are. From the outside/online they appear to be these immense wonders. Which, to a certain extent...they are.

But once you've really explored them, you realize that most cruise ships are designed as if they picked a deck layout, and copy/pasted it vertically 10-15 times. There's no real uniqueness because room 1001 looks the same as room 8001. You're meant to be able to board any ship from the same line, and have it look more or less the same as all the others.

Are they nothing like old Penn Station, Grand Central Terminal, the SS Nieuw Amsterdam (1938), SS Rotterdam (1959), Finnjet, MV Bore, SS Norway, SS Independence, or SS United States?

Well one of those was a train station, so not much common ground there.

And for the rest...no, absolutely not. Aside from being a ship, there’s really no common ground. Those ships were individually uniquely designed and outfitted. That’s how they stood out, by being the fastest or most ornate, or biggest and so on.

These days the ships are cookie cutter designs. The experience is meant to be homogeneous across the fleet because the cruise line needs you to like and want to return your business to the company, not reliant on the individual ship. You can even go as far as to request the “same” cabin on different ships of the same class to maintain that level of familiarity. Most cruise pax don’t set out to book a specific ship. They find an itinerary they like, and match it with whatever cruise line they have loyalty to or offers the best price.

An exception is Queen Mary 2, which is an ocean liner that also serves as a cruise ship.

An ocean liner and a cruise ship are not the same thing.

If you think of it this way, on an ocean liner you lived for perhaps a week on the ship without getting off. On a cruise ship, you arrive at a port at 0700 say and disembark at say 0800 and spend the day ashore. At 1800 you re embark and leave port at 1900, by say 2300 you are in bed. This process is repeated. Your total waking time on board is perhaps 6 hours per day.

The experience and facilities required are totally different.

Then if you want to turn it into a hotel, apart from anything else there is no scope for seeing a new city every day.

As for the museum idea, would you turn the local Holiday Inn into a museum.

bennett123 wrote:

An ocean liner and a cruise ship are not the same thing.

If you think of it this way, on an ocean liner you lived for perhaps a week on the ship without getting off. On a cruise ship, you arrive at a port at 0700 say and disembark at say 0800 and spend the day ashore. At 1800 you re embark and leave port at 1900, by say 2300 you are in bed. This process is repeated. Your total waking time on board is perhaps 6 hours per day.

The experience and facilities required are totally different.

Then if you want to turn it into a hotel, apart from anything else there is no scope for seeing a new city every day.

As for the museum idea, would you turn the local Holiday Inn into a museum.

Queen Mary 2 would be a worthy candidate for preserving as a hotel and museum ship when she retires about 30 years from now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Mary_2

Agree 100%.

ArchGuy1 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

An ocean liner and a cruise ship are not the same thing.

If you think of it this way, on an ocean liner you lived for perhaps a week on the ship without getting off. On a cruise ship, you arrive at a port at 0700 say and disembark at say 0800 and spend the day ashore. At 1800 you re embark and leave port at 1900, by say 2300 you are in bed. This process is repeated. Your total waking time on board is perhaps 6 hours per day.

The experience and facilities required are totally different.

Then if you want to turn it into a hotel, apart from anything else there is no scope for seeing a new city every day.

As for the museum idea, would you turn the local Holiday Inn into a museum.

Queen Mary 2 would be a worthy candidate for preserving as a hotel and museum ship when she retires about 30 years from now.

It feels more likely than some of the other ships you've suggested. It's one of a kind and it's opulent, but it isn't the historical relic of a bygone age as QM or even QE2 which does reduce potential interest as a museum ship. The challenge is, it's enormous, which poses problems: if a port can take its draught, you've got to find space AND it's got to be a place that people want to visit, and if you're going to set it up as a hotel ship you've got a LOT of cabins to fill. Also, although it does cruises, the definitive QM2 experience is the transatlantic crossing - the opportunity to disconnect, and be in another world for a week out at sea. You lose that by being constantly in port.

I'm not convinced it's got another 30 years however. I'm sure it's tough enough to last that long, but a ship the wrong side of 40 will be inefficient and probably not matched to customer demand. How many millennials, let alone Gen Z, are thrilled at the idea of a week's formal voyage with no port calls?

I am, but I appreciate I'm not typical of my age group. I intend to do the transatlantic sooner rather than later, though I'll need to level up my wardrobe first!

IH8BY wrote:

ArchGuy1 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

An ocean liner and a cruise ship are not the same thing.

If you think of it this way, on an ocean liner you lived for perhaps a week on the ship without getting off. On a cruise ship, you arrive at a port at 0700 say and disembark at say 0800 and spend the day ashore. At 1800 you re embark and leave port at 1900, by say 2300 you are in bed. This process is repeated. Your total waking time on board is perhaps 6 hours per day.

The experience and facilities required are totally different.

Then if you want to turn it into a hotel, apart from anything else there is no scope for seeing a new city every day.

As for the museum idea, would you turn the local Holiday Inn into a museum.

Queen Mary 2 would be a worthy candidate for preserving as a hotel and museum ship when she retires about 30 years from now.

It feels more likely than some of the other ships you've suggested. It's one of a kind and it's opulent, but it isn't the historical relic of a bygone age as QM or even QE2 which does reduce potential interest as a museum ship. The challenge is, it's enormous, which poses problems: if a port can take its draught, you've got to find space AND it's got to be a place that people want to visit, and if you're going to set it up as a hotel ship you've got a LOT of cabins to fill. Also, although it does cruises, the definitive QM2 experience is the transatlantic crossing - the opportunity to disconnect, and be in another world for a week out at sea. You lose that by being constantly in port.

I'm not convinced it's got another 30 years however. I'm sure it's tough enough to last that long, but a ship the wrong side of 40 will be inefficient and probably not matched to customer demand. How many millennials, let alone Gen Z, are thrilled at the idea of a week's formal voyage with no port calls?

I am, but I appreciate I'm not typical of my age group. I intend to do the transatlantic sooner rather than later, though I'll need to level up my wardrobe first!

Potential locations for preserving Queen Mary 2 include New York City, Liverpool, Saint Nazaire, Belfast, and The Clyde. The Queen Mary 2 could possibly be landlocked as well like what was done with MV Lydia, MV Doulos, or Minghua. QM2 was built for a 40 year service life and Cunard is looking to extend that to 50 years.

Well...having moved from WA to MD and now to VA, guess my cruise for this year will be canceled. I had scheduled Norwegian Bliss to Alaska in September...but no vacation time and having to pay down expenses means the vacation will have to take a backseat until next year. Besides, something tells me cruises will be limited until COVID truly comes under control.

The Tropicale has arrived at Alang, India to be scrapped and the ship entered service in 1982. Tropicale is notable as she was the first Carnival newbuild and a gamechanger for the cruise industry. After leaving the Carnival fleet in 2001, Tropicale sailed for a few operators, most recently Peace Boat starting in 2012 as the Ocean Dream. After the Sun Princess was acquired in September, the Ocean Dream was sold for scrap. Wish that Tropicale would have become a hotel and museum ship was she was an innovative ship, a real beauty, and a one-off rather than a class of ships. Would definitely have sailed a little past 40 years of age if COVID-19 had not taken place.
https://www.maritime-executive.com/arti ... e-scrapped

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_Dream_(1982_ship)

Having gone through major refits in 2001, 2002 and 2005, it is hard to know how much of the original ship remained.

einsteinboricua wrote:

Well...having moved from WA to MD and now to VA, guess my cruise for this year will be canceled. I had scheduled Norwegian Bliss to Alaska in September...but no vacation time and having to pay down expenses means the vacation will have to take a backseat until next year. Besides, something tells me cruises will be limited until COVID truly comes under control.

Its so hard to know whats going to happen. I have my doubts now about my November trips. I can see myself moving it to Spring 2022. So many provisional dates have passed.
Still when we get the chance to sail again we will certainly appreciate what we have been missing.

IH8BY wrote:

It feels more likely than some of the other ships you've suggested. It's one of a kind and it's opulent, but it isn't the historical relic of a bygone age as QM or even QE2 which does reduce potential interest as a museum ship.

I just have to ask, have you been on the QM2?

The regular cabins are ok, certainly nothing special and on the tech side they are well behind many other ships.

The 2 level suites and above are nice, but again nothing amazing.

The public areas are tastefully done, the dining rooms are nice, but nothing that I would call opulent.

IMHO the Cunard ships are a product of people buying into the PR more than an actual product, there are lines that are far better at offering a luxury experience.

jetwet1 wrote:

IH8BY wrote:

It feels more likely than some of the other ships you've suggested. It's one of a kind and it's opulent, but it isn't the historical relic of a bygone age as QM or even QE2 which does reduce potential interest as a museum ship.

I just have to ask, have you been on the QM2?

The regular cabins are ok, certainly nothing special and on the tech side they are well behind many other ships.

The 2 level suites and above are nice, but again nothing amazing.

The public areas are tastefully done, the dining rooms are nice, but nothing that I would call opulent.

IMHO the Cunard ships are a product of people buying into the PR more than an actual product, there are lines that are far better at offering a luxury experience.

No I haven't - and on second thoughts I suppose opulent wasn't really the word I meant there. I was trying to make the point that in terms of comfort (of public rooms) it's a level above some of the other ships that ArchGuy has suggested (e.g. the Carnival ships). Generally the reviews I've read suggest as much.

At the price point I don't think I'm expecting the world - you can do the transatlantic for at little as £700 when you could easily pay that *per night* for something entry level on Regent or Hapag-Lloyd.

bennett123 wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Mary_2

Agree 100%.

The Queen Mary 2 is a beautiful and unique ship on both the exterior and interior and I find is a modernized hybrid of SS Normandie and QE2.

Archguy1, have you ever been on a cruise ship or even done a virtual tour of a cabin on a cruise line website? The reason that I'm asking is that 95% of the cabins are very small. They are much smaller than hotel rooms. There's nothing romantic about them. They are a motel that moves from port to port so that you don't have to keep repacking and driving to a new destination every day. If you built a hotel with rooms the size of a cabin, people would be very upset.

johns624 wrote:

Archguy1, have you ever been on a cruise ship or even done a virtual tour of a cabin on a cruise line website? The reason that I'm asking is that 95% of the cabins are very small. They are much smaller than hotel rooms. There's nothing romantic about them. They are a motel that moves from port to port so that you don't have to keep repacking and driving to a new destination every day. If you built a hotel with rooms the size of a cabin, people would be very upset.

What are the rooms on Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, and QE2 like?

ArchGuy1 wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Mary_2

Agree 100%.

The Queen Mary 2 is a beautiful and unique ship on both the exterior and interior and I find is a modernized hybrid of SS Normandie and QE2.

Have to agree QM2 is a lovely ship. I like the interior and the service onboard. The cabins are adequate and Ive stayed in Outside cabins up to Queens suite. Ive been on everything from 2* to 6* and while Cunard are not the top the brand has a special place for me personally. Ive got to know the crew over the years and stepping back onboard is always a great moment . I cant wait to be back onboard again and hopefully many of the same crew will have made it through too.

ArchGuy1 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Archguy1, have you ever been on a cruise ship or even done a virtual tour of a cabin on a cruise line website? The reason that I'm asking is that 95% of the cabins are very small. They are much smaller than hotel rooms. There's nothing romantic about them. They are a motel that moves from port to port so that you don't have to keep repacking and driving to a new destination every day. If you built a hotel with rooms the size of a cabin, people would be very upset.

What are the rooms on Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, and QE2 like?

We spent our wedding night on the QM and there was a lot of exposed steel. IIRC, the walls and deck were steel and the window was a large porthole. It was 17 years ago but I don't remember it as anything elegant, more utilitarian. The thing you don't seem to understand about ships, is that their chief attribute is that they MOVE. They get you from here to there in relative comfort but are nowhere near a good hotel.

ArchGuy1 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Archguy1, have you ever been on a cruise ship or even done a virtual tour of a cabin on a cruise line website? The reason that I'm asking is that 95% of the cabins are very small. They are much smaller than hotel rooms. There's nothing romantic about them. They are a motel that moves from port to port so that you don't have to keep repacking and driving to a new destination every day. If you built a hotel with rooms the size of a cabin, people would be very upset.

What are the rooms on Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, and QE2 like?

They are generally very small, unusually laid out, and get little to no natural light. Or in the case of all inner rooms, no natural light at all ever. And the bathroom is usually tiny. I have yet to travel aboard a ship and not hear the joke about slipping in the shower and falling onto the bed for that matter.

They were built to be temporary homes to stuff people for a few days while crossing the Atlantic. Personally I’d be interested in spending maybe 1 night at one of the ship hotels, for the novelty. Any longer and I’d rather spend less and get a nicer hotel room

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... apped.html

Sad but not surprising to see confirmation that Marco Polo is to be scrapped. Was such a lovely little ship, nothing fancy but had some nice features including teak decks, comfortable lounges and great crew. Cabins were comfortable (although the cheapest inside cabins felt like they were in the very depths of the ship).

Bon voyage Marco Polo.

With all this glum news, what we all need is a throwback to the golden era of cruising... But that's not what you're getting! Instead, enjoy the cheesy horror of this Carnival promo video from the 90s. Watch from the start, but it really steps up a level or two about a minute in... It's simultaneously everything you wanted and everything you didn't want from the 1990s.

https://youtu.be/ptElniTT_Mk

bananaboy wrote:

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24136-it-s-official-the-marco-polo-is-getting-scrapped.html

Sad but not surprising to see confirmation that Marco Polo is to be scrapped. Was such a lovely little ship, nothing fancy but had some nice features including teak decks, comfortable lounges and great crew. Cabins were comfortable (although the cheapest inside cabins felt like they were in the very depths of the ship).

Bon voyage Marco Polo.

Terrible I think we knew it was more then likely but still the reality of it being confirmed is still a blow.

Probably will be the defining image of what the cruise industry lost during C-19 .

RIP ....

bananaboy wrote:

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24136-it-s-official-the-marco-polo-is-getting-scrapped.html

Sad but not surprising to see confirmation that Marco Polo is to be scrapped. Was such a lovely little ship, nothing fancy but had some nice features including teak decks, comfortable lounges and great crew. Cabins were comfortable (although the cheapest inside cabins felt like they were in the very depths of the ship).

Bon voyage Marco Polo.

Will any ships besides Albatros become hotel and museum ships, since Albatros is becoming a floating hotel in Hurghada, Egypt?

IH8BY wrote:

what we all need is a throwback to the golden era of cruising...

There was a golden age of cruising?

I have to say that I thought that the Marco Polo would survive.

Not looking good for some of the more 'standard' cruise ships.

johns624 wrote:

IH8BY wrote:

what we all need is a throwback to the golden era of cruising...

There was a golden age of cruising?

Seems so


In pictures: The golden age of ocean cruising – then and now

From Sixties icon Twiggy, to Dame Joan Collins and The Queen, the celebrity godmother tradition is one example of cruising’s inextricable link with glamour and style. “I have 13 godchildren – and now I have a ship!” said Collins when she christened the ship Joie de Vivre on a sunny spring day in Paris.

www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/arti ... ising/amp/

Here is a petition to sign to try and save the Queen Mary for further generations and this is a ship that desperately needs restoration.
https://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeact ... =675739135

Didn't Disney get a new ship late 2020? I think is called the Disney Wonder or Disney W....something??

ArchGuy1 wrote:

Here is a petition to sign to try and save the Queen Mary for further generations and this is a ship that desperately needs restoration.
https://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeact ... =675739135

The QM needs money, not signatures. Signing a petition is feel good but it doesn't solve anything.

I wonder when cruise crews will get vaccinated?

johns624 wrote:

ArchGuy1 wrote:

Here is a petition to sign to try and save the Queen Mary for further generations and this is a ship that desperately needs restoration.
https://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeact ... =675739135

The QM needs money, not signatures. Signing a petition is feel good but it doesn't solve anything.

I love the Queen Mary as it is somewhere to (usually) get away from crowds in a big city... Not a business case to restore.

Lightsaber

The Costa Victoria, built in 1996 will be towed to Turkey for scrap. Thd ship was sold to an Italian shipyard and rumored to become a hotel for drydock workers, but that fell through. Very much a futuristic space age ship that had 20 more years of cruise service life left.
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... apped.html

Not a great surprise.

Several ships of this age and size have already gone to the breakers.

ArchGuy1 wrote:

The Costa Victoria, built in 1996 will be towed to Turkey for scrap. Thd ship was sold to an Italian shipyard and rumored to become a hotel for drydock workers, but that fell through. Very much a futuristic space age ship that had 20 more years of cruise service life left.
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... apped.html

I was onboard this ship years ago. It was ok nothing amazing but after the refurb in 2018 they did a really good job and it certainly had another 10 years under normal circumstances.

bennett123 wrote:

Not a great surprise.

Several ships of this age and size have already gone to the breakers.

Looking at photos of ships from the era, it seems like the ships of the 90s pretty much lacked balconies (or had very few). This makes them rather unattractive in this day and age where external cabins are expected to have one. The number of balconies per ship skyrocketed around the millennium change.

VSMUT wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

Not a great surprise.

Several ships of this age and size have already gone to the breakers.

Looking at photos of ships from the era, it seems like the ships of the 90s pretty much lacked balconies (or had very few). This makes them rather unattractive in this day and age where external cabins are expected to have one. The number of balconies per ship skyrocketed around the millennium change.

The Costa Victoria has like 3 full decks of balconies and from what I heard somewhere, was rumored to be going to Jalesh this year shortly before COVID-19.

Can onboard rollercoasters save the cruise industry?






It has the world’s first roller coaster at sea, a micro-brewery, restaurants from celebrity chefs and sports figures, and, in a sign of the times, a massive medical facility.

The Mardi Gras - Carnival’s newest and most extravagant ship - also features a water park, a suspended rope course and an atrium built into the side of the ship with moveable panels that open to ocean views.

There are also two theatres and a vintage Fiat car strategically positioned in a “Piazza” for selfies.

The cruise liner is expected to start week-long cruises from Florida to the Caribbean and the Bahamas in late April. Of course, that assumes things go as planned.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-55496436

ArchGuy1 wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

Not a great surprise.

Several ships of this age and size have already gone to the breakers.

Looking at photos of ships from the era, it seems like the ships of the 90s pretty much lacked balconies (or had very few). This makes them rather unattractive in this day and age where external cabins are expected to have one. The number of balconies per ship skyrocketed around the millennium change.

The Costa Victoria has like 3 full decks of balconies and from what I heard somewhere, was rumored to be going to Jalesh this year shortly before COVID-19.

Sure, but look at all the cabins that don't have them. Compare it with this ship, launched just 2 years later:



Not only more cabins with balconies, but it also squeezes cabins in at the front of the superstructure. The money making potential is just so much higher.

VSMUT wrote:

ArchGuy1 wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Looking at photos of ships from the era, it seems like the ships of the 90s pretty much lacked balconies (or had very few). This makes them rather unattractive in this day and age where external cabins are expected to have one. The number of balconies per ship skyrocketed around the millennium change.

The Costa Victoria has like 3 full decks of balconies and from what I heard somewhere, was rumored to be going to Jalesh this year shortly before COVID-19.

Sure, but look at all the cabins that don't have them. Compare it with this ship, launched just 2 years later:



Not only more cabins with balconies, but it also squeezes cabins in at the front of the superstructure. The money making potential is just so much higher.

Many ocean liners and cruise ships built from the 1950's onward sailed 40-50 years before being scrapped despite being outdated for many years before their retirement.

ArchGuy1 wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

ArchGuy1 wrote:

The Costa Victoria has like 3 full decks of balconies and from what I heard somewhere, was rumored to be going to Jalesh this year shortly before COVID-19.

Sure, but look at all the cabins that don't have them. Compare it with this ship, launched just 2 years later:



Not only more cabins with balconies, but it also squeezes cabins in at the front of the superstructure. The money making potential is just so much higher.

Many ocean liners and cruise ships built from the 1950's onward sailed 40-50 years before being scrapped despite being outdated for many years before their retirement.

But that is because:
1) The market could absorb the capacity. It can't any more.
2) Passenger expectations have changed.

If we compare it with aviation, business class seats were pretty much unchanged from the 1950s onwards. In the 2000s we then got angle-flat seats and in the 2010s the lie flat seats. Barely anyone would be satisfied with an angle-flat today, let alone a traditional business recliner.

VSMUT wrote:

ArchGuy1 wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Sure, but look at all the cabins that don't have them. Compare it with this ship, launched just 2 years later:



Not only more cabins with balconies, but it also squeezes cabins in at the front of the superstructure. The money making potential is just so much higher.

Many ocean liners and cruise ships built from the 1950's onward sailed 40-50 years before being scrapped despite being outdated for many years before their retirement.

But that is because:
1) The market could absorb the capacity. It can't any more.
2) Passenger expectations have changed.

If we compare it with aviation, business class seats were pretty much unchanged from the 1950s onwards. In the 2000s we then got angle-flat seats and in the 2010s the lie flat seats. Barely anyone would be satisfied with an angle-flat today, let alone a traditional business recliner.

Many 1970's cruise ships sailed a little over 40 years, even years or over a decade after the megaships with balconies, watersides, rock climbing walls,, and other entertainment amenities became standard.

ArchGuy1 wrote:

FGITD wrote:

ArchGuy1 wrote:

Are they nothing like old Penn Station, Grand Central Terminal, the SS Nieuw Amsterdam (1938), SS Rotterdam (1959), Finnjet, MV Bore, SS Norway, SS Independence, or SS United States?

Well one of those was a train station, so not much common ground there.

And for the rest...no, absolutely not. Aside from being a ship, there’s really no common ground. Those ships were individually uniquely designed and outfitted. That’s how they stood out, by being the fastest or most ornate, or biggest and so on.

These days the ships are cookie cutter designs. The experience is meant to be homogeneous across the fleet because the cruise line needs you to like and want to return your business to the company, not reliant on the individual ship. You can even go as far as to request the “same” cabin on different ships of the same class to maintain that level of familiarity. Most cruise pax don’t set out to book a specific ship. They find an itinerary they like, and match it with whatever cruise line they have loyalty to or offers the best price.

An exception is Queen Mary 2, which is an ocean liner that also serves as a cruise ship.

I think I agree with you on this one. However she doesn’t have the same following as the QE2.

Kiwirob wrote:

ArchGuy1 wrote:

FGITD wrote:

Well one of those was a train station, so not much common ground there.

And for the rest...no, absolutely not. Aside from being a ship, there’s really no common ground. Those ships were individually uniquely designed and outfitted. That’s how they stood out, by being the fastest or most ornate, or biggest and so on.

These days the ships are cookie cutter designs. The experience is meant to be homogeneous across the fleet because the cruise line needs you to like and want to return your business to the company, not reliant on the individual ship. You can even go as far as to request the “same” cabin on different ships of the same class to maintain that level of familiarity. Most cruise pax don’t set out to book a specific ship. They find an itinerary they like, and match it with whatever cruise line they have loyalty to or offers the best price.

An exception is Queen Mary 2, which is an ocean liner that also serves as a cruise ship.

I think I agree with you on this one. However she doesn’t have the same following as the QE2.

Does the original Queen Mary have a larger following than Queen Mary 2?