Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
bennett123 wrote:The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.
If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.
ArchGuy1 wrote:bennett123 wrote:The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.
If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.
Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?
johns624 wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:bennett123 wrote:The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.
If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.
Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
ArchGuy1 wrote:So what does that tell you about the financial viability of operating an old ship as a hotel?johns624 wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
This is not the first time a company operating the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy.
johns624 wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:So what does that tell you about the financial viability of operating an old ship as a hotel?johns624 wrote:No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
This is not the first time a company operating the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy.
ArchGuy1 wrote:johns624 wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:So what does that tell you about the financial viability of operating an old ship as a hotel?This is not the first time a company operating the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy.
The model of the Queen Mary with the City of Long Beach owning it and leasing it out to operators is not viable.
bennett123 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56196069
Interesting little piece about the Magellan and Marco Polo.
As far as the Astoria is concerned, I think the Stockholm is best forgotten.
As a cruise ship, it could have a future, but is somewhat a niche market. Clearly it can't compete head on with the floating resorts.
However, that is a bit of a punt and will depend on her cos and condition.
bennett123 wrote:What reason do you have for thinking that this won't end up going to the breakers like the Marco Polo.
ArchGuy1 wrote:bennett123 wrote:What reason do you have for thinking that this won't end up going to the breakers like the Marco Polo.
Colliding with and sinking the Andrea Doria, the last SAL liner in existence, the only SAL liner built in Sweden, and the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in service right before COVID-19.
BlueberryWheats wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:bennett123 wrote:What reason do you have for thinking that this won't end up going to the breakers like the Marco Polo.
Colliding with and sinking the Andrea Doria, the last SAL liner in existence, the only SAL liner built in Sweden, and the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in service right before COVID-19.
Trouble is, not enough average folk are aware of SAL or looking to specifically book a stay on a ship that was the cause of a maritime disaster.
ArchGuy1 wrote:BlueberryWheats wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Colliding with and sinking the Andrea Doria, the last SAL liner in existence, the only SAL liner built in Sweden, and the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in service right before COVID-19.
Trouble is, not enough average folk are aware of SAL or looking to specifically book a stay on a ship that was the cause of a maritime disaster.
Was the average person aware of SAL in the 1960's and early 1970's?
ArchGuy1 wrote:No, and those people are at least in their 60s, if not 70s now. Not the demographic that you want to base an attraction on.BlueberryWheats wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Colliding with and sinking the Andrea Doria, the last SAL liner in existence, the only SAL liner built in Sweden, and the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in service right before COVID-19.
Trouble is, not enough average folk are aware of SAL or looking to specifically book a stay on a ship that was the cause of a maritime disaster.
Was the average person aware of SAL in the 1960's and early 1970's?
johns624 wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:bennett123 wrote:The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.
If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.
Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
ArchGuy1 wrote:johns624 wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm
FGITD wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:johns624 wrote:No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm
But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.
The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.
FGITD wrote:You're being overly generous with the time...
The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.
ArchGuy1 wrote:NO! Most people are too busy working, supporting themselves, going on vacation and building a life.Did the average person actually care about ships like QE2, Queen Mary, SS Norway, and the two Love Boat ships back in the 1980's?
FGITD wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:johns624 wrote:No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm
But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.
The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.
ArchGuy1 wrote:I will, right after you listen to what people have been telling YOU for the last year...99.9% of people don't give a rat's ass about old cruise ships, ocean liners, bridges or buildings. Like I posted earlier, the company that runs the QM, the most famous ocean liner still around, has filed for bankruptcy. People don't GAF! I spent my wedding night on the QM, and IDGAF. I know you like asking everyone questions but don't you dare ask me what it was like!FGITD wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm
But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.
The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.
Did you even read everything in those entire pages, because if you do, you will understand more?
ArchGuy1 wrote:FGITD wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm
But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.
The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.
Did you even read everything in those entire pages, because if you do, you will understand more?
ArchGuy1 wrote:bennett123 wrote:The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.
If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.
Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?
ArchGuy1 wrote:FGITD wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:When the Greek American Senator who led efforts to preserve the Olympia/Regal Empress decided to preserve a Liberty Ship instead and with the fact that Regal Empress was scrapped, a lot of people were upset by it. Here are some sources to back it up. This was back in 2009.
http://ssmaritime.com/olympia0.htm
http://ssmaritime.com/olympiacampaign.htm
But yet again, those are not sources, they’re just fan sites. Of course they were upset, it’s written by people who liked the ship so much they ran a website about it. It’s like linking to a thread on here every time a 747 gets retired. You’d think it’s the greatest tragedy in the world because you’re going to a source devoted to it.
The average person either never heard of it, didn’t care, or just thought it was too bad for half a second, then moved on with their lives.
Did the average person actually care about ships like QE2, Queen Mary, SS Norway, and the two Love Boat ships back in the 1980's?
johns624 wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:bennett123 wrote:The article suggests that the owners were a bit optimistic asking for 10,000,000 Euros.
If you compare the tonnage with the number of passengers, the the number of tons per passenger seems to be relatively high.
Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
na wrote:johns624 wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:Is Stockholm/Astoria a ship you think is significant enough to preserve as a hotel or museum ship like MV Doulos?
No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
I thought of it the other day. Not surprising in the current climate.
Be it as it is, the Queen Mary is the world´s sole survivor of an era. And it significantly contributed to winning WWII by transporting a large part of the US troops to Europe which together with the British liberated France and conquered Nazi Germany. Churchill once said, she and near sistership Queen Elizabeth shortened the war by a year. Therefore, historically, its a much more important vessel than any battleship or aircraft carrier that did survive.
Btw I spend two nights on QM two years ago. Got to love that Grand Old Lady.
ArchGuy1 wrote:na wrote:johns624 wrote:No, you're the only one that thinks that.
On other topics---the company that runs the Queen Mary has filed for bankruptcy. I didn't see that mentioned here.
https://lbpost.com/news/queen-mary-futu ... 0in%20debt.
I thought of it the other day. Not surprising in the current climate.
Be it as it is, the Queen Mary is the world´s sole survivor of an era. And it significantly contributed to winning WWII by transporting a large part of the US troops to Europe which together with the British liberated France and conquered Nazi Germany. Churchill once said, she and near sistership Queen Elizabeth shortened the war by a year. Therefore, historically, its a much more important vessel than any battleship or aircraft carrier that did survive.
Btw I spend two nights on QM two years ago. Got to love that Grand Old Lady.
The Queen Mary certainly sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, which is about the same as the Seattle Space Needle and the observation deck of the Sears Tower.
FGITD wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:na wrote:
I thought of it the other day. Not surprising in the current climate.
Be it as it is, the Queen Mary is the world´s sole survivor of an era. And it significantly contributed to winning WWII by transporting a large part of the US troops to Europe which together with the British liberated France and conquered Nazi Germany. Churchill once said, she and near sistership Queen Elizabeth shortened the war by a year. Therefore, historically, its a much more important vessel than any battleship or aircraft carrier that did survive.
Btw I spend two nights on QM two years ago. Got to love that Grand Old Lady.
The Queen Mary certainly sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, which is about the same as the Seattle Space Needle and the observation deck of the Sears Tower.
And yet somehow seemingly every company that touches Queen Mary ends up bankrupt. What does that tell you?
ltbewr wrote:One issue that may hold up the reopening of the cruise line industry, perhaps well into 2022, will be the need to make sure 'herd immunity', mainly by distribution of vaccines to at least 80% of where ships will make ports of call and crews come from. Many of those locations have seen massive losses of income from the pandemic, will have difficulty affording or even getting access to vaccines as bought up first by developed and rich countries like the USA, Canada, and those in Europe. I wish and hope that the USA and EU countries once that have largely covered themselves as to vaccines provide and assist with distribution at no or little cost to them. The delays may also sadly mean more older, smaller and less efficient ships heading to the scrappers.
na wrote:FGITD wrote:ArchGuy1 wrote:The Queen Mary certainly sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, which is about the same as the Seattle Space Needle and the observation deck of the Sears Tower.
And yet somehow seemingly every company that touches Queen Mary ends up bankrupt. What does that tell you?
That it needs to be maintained by public funds for a part. Like any very important landmark. Queen Mary is the most significant institution of Long Beach, and over that, unique in the world.
You can't measure everything by $$$ income.
na wrote:That's really not saying much... Ever been to Long Beach?Queen Mary is the most significant institution of Long Beach.
OA260 wrote:
FGITD wrote:na wrote:FGITD wrote:
And yet somehow seemingly every company that touches Queen Mary ends up bankrupt. What does that tell you?
That it needs to be maintained by public funds for a part. Like any very important landmark. Queen Mary is the most significant institution of Long Beach, and over that, unique in the world.
You can't measure everything by $$$ income.
You can when it's supposed to be a money making endeavour.
It's not an important landmark. It's a ship. One that has been sitting at a pier, in a city it never visited, losing money, for longer than it was ever in service. Apply that logic to any other business and try to rationalize it.
I'm all for preserving her, but not propping up the business with public funds. Taxpayers in 2021 shouldn't bear the financial burden of a decision made from nostalgia for a ship none of them ever sailed on.
na wrote:OA260 wrote:
MS Lirica, 59.000 GRT. Seems to be a very massive fire on the boat deck. However, it is under control now. I wonder if its worth repairing in this climate. Only 17 years old, yes, but its the veteran in the fleet, and MSC hasn't send a ship for scrap yet.
jetwet1 wrote:No, it said it took them an hour to get it under control, not that it took them an hour to show up.
Amazing that it took over an hour for the local fire fighting tugs to show up....
johns624 wrote:jetwet1 wrote:No, it said it took them an hour to get it under control, not that it took them an hour to show up.
Amazing that it took over an hour for the local fire fighting tugs to show up....
na wrote:OA260 wrote:
MS Lirica, 59.000 GRT. Seems to be a very massive fire on the boat deck. However, it is under control now. I wonder if its worth repairing in this climate. Only 17 years old, yes, but its the veteran in the fleet, and MSC hasn't send a ship for scrap yet.