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TheSonntag
Posts: 4548
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:07 pm

Erasmus axed.

Passport requirement for visiting the UK (ID no longer sufficient).

Why invest in the UK for blue collar jobs if you can get the same from an EU country?

This will not be a fast disaster. It will be a slow decline.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:10 pm

OA260 wrote:
olle wrote:
OA260 wrote:

I have been working with Information security for the last 25 years. This problem has been known for many years. In my industry we discussed how for example handle cloud services outside my country (Sweden) in case of major disaster. Can Sweden force let say Germany or USA to give critical service if let say a critical application run in their country? I would say no.

But, I see that íf for example cloud services shall be used for critical applications we (Sweden) need EU law to handle this. In this crisis we saw that the help to Italy was a national problem and support will not be forced between countries when we have a disaster. This need to be agreed before the crisis. In my view EU like USA is between USA states is the only long term answer.

In this covid crisis I doubt that Eu would had been able to agree with economical funding to Spain and Italy if UK was still a member. I blame my own country Sweden for not standing up directly supporting the budget, but with UK as a member it would never had happened.

With UK outside EU EU will probably either break up in two or pretty fast become a union of Europe like USA is the next generations. I believe to give answers to the big questions like climate change, crisis handling and military defense post NATO (The Atlantic alliance seems to be about to break).

We today 100 years after the great war must realize that we head for a very unstable time.


The test for the EU is in times of crisis. The migrant crisis suddenly they are Greece's and Italy's problem. The COVID-19 emergency in Italy and the help system is activated and no one comes meaning many Italians are probably dead today who might have been alive. Its always too little too late. Yet we are told its a strong force to be reckoned with. It seems in times of crisis everyone puts the walls up.
Even in the Greek financial crisis we hear on here and from politicians around the EU the lazy Greeks . PIGS and from Germany let them sell the Acropolis. Its always the same from the EU . Slowly people turn away and realise they wont be bullied and belittled anymore. The sad thing is its all preventable yet like many Pro EU members say the UK will keep hurting itself because of Brexit the same it actually true of the Pro EU members.

Its time for real change. Lets see if it happens.


The test of EU will be not that we have crisis, we always will, but what we learn and how we react to them,

For each crisis I believe EU will get more powers not because they try to take them but because the citizens of EU demands solutions and actions.

I read the apology to the Italian people that should be one for the Greek as a message to the richer part Europe that we need to change. That message is in my view the opposite to Brexit.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14841
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:51 pm

seahawk wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Why do some here seem to want the UK to suffer and/or be harmed? Posters seem to gloat at the idea the UK struggle, in my opinion.

The reality is that the UK will be fine. Just like the EU. Different but not much so.

I wish the UK much success in the coming years. And no less so the EU.

Tugg


The UK has the chance to do much better than the EU, with full control of the country being in the hands of the UK again. All it needs is the daring to actually leave all of the EU behind and walk into a modern future.


To know if the UK will do better we would first need to agree on a set of criteria.

For example before Brexit the UK economy had the most growth in the EU. Yet so many people were poor or feeling at a disadvantage that they voted for Brexit. So clearly growth is not enough.

Fco1967 wrote:
Best of luck to the UK.
As a british educated italian I think they made a good choice,time will tell!
I see so much acrimony from eurodreamers on this forum,they seem like the teenager after a bad date.
Let us europeans just go back to watching the wonderful politics in Brussels and respect our neighbours.
And UK will always be Europe,geographical fact!
EU is a young invention created by (mediocre imho)people and since then I only see disasters!
Greece has been humiliated and Italy is going same way while politicians have easy time blaming 'Europe'!


Italy's problems are made in Italy don't you think ? If you have crap politicians, isn't it because you voted for them ? Did the EU force Italy to keep its corruption ?

To be honest if I was certain Italy would change and thrive outside of the EU, I would be all for it, but I believe the opposite is true, it would turn into chaos and might even break up, it's a young country after all, and one popular politician these days (Salvini) has advocated for years that the north should be an independent country.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 5140
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:16 pm

Res fishing and the English quota which is foreign owned, wouldn't England the the right to buy back those foreign owned shares, but probably have to pay a fair market price?
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14841
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:37 pm

 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2404
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:40 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Two days in and all is well.

No issues at the Border. No issues with stuff in the stores. The economy hasn’t tanked.


I thought the UK and EU agreed a deal? Wasn’t the point of that to avoid chaos?

As for the economy tanking, it’s probably baked into the UK’s emergence as the worst performing G7 economy (even Italy is doing better), and one of the worst in the developed world. Will be difficult to see how much Brexit has tanked an already tanked economy for a while yet.

https://www.ft.com/content/1f52fd2b-7da ... c38f819b8d

COVID provides camouflage, but even camouflage has its limits.
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 421
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:47 pm

Looks like UK prime video is now severely restricted and sky go no longer works in the eu...
 
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OA260
Posts: 25764
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:03 pm

Sky Go still ok with VPN blocker .

For UK channels My TV abroad is a great service

https://www.mytvabroad.rs/
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:13 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Two days in and all is well.

No issues at the Border. No issues with stuff in the stores. The economy hasn’t tanked.

"The water hasn't reached the upper decks yet, so opening the flood valves was totally the right choice!" :hypnotized:

If there had been chaos right away at the lowest ebb of seasonal traffic with many businesses actively avoiding shipments as far as they can during this phase of Brexit, then there would have been no chance at all under more normal circumstances.

The damage related to shipping will manifest primarily in friction, add-on cost and lacking transport capacity suffered by UK businesses and food producers; Actual congestion will probably not be a permanent issue but likely recurring due to unreconciled regulatory changes and peak demand.

It is a big mistake, of course, to believe that just because there may not be lorry pileups then Brexit was running all fine and frictionless. That kind of thing is only the peak of the iceberg.

The bulk of it is only the UK falling back to the bad old times which we've had in Europe before the EU eliminated huge amounts of red tape and friction between the member states, which is now for the most part back only for the UK.
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:04 pm

olle wrote:
With UK outside EU EU will probably either break up in two or pretty fast become a union of Europe like USA is the next generations. I believe to give answers to the big questions like climate change, crisis handling and military defense post NATO (The Atlantic alliance seems to be about to break).

Why? The UK was relevant and did influence the direction of the EU, but its absence is more stabilizing than disruptive, actually, as we have already seen through these past years.

There is also no desire for a mad rush towards centralization in the other member countries either.

The EU will proceed as it has always done: Member countries identifying areas where better coordination and pooling of responsibilities could be useful (such as disease response and health policies right now, obviously!), then intense discussions about how to achieve this and then reform and implementation, but also always re-checking whether responsibilities would be better allocated on the national or regional levels.

Nothing new.

This is the only sensible way to proceed and also the only one that is plausible to be followed.

We today 100 years after the great war must realize that we head for a very unstable time.

There has pretty much never been a time when the EU was not challenged by the changing times and it has been under near-constant reform and development for all of its existence, as it should have been!
 
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Tugger
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:00 pm

TheSonntag wrote:
Why invest in the UK for blue collar jobs if you can get the same from an EU country?

Well actually, specifically the reason to do so is that you can't get the same an EU country. An EU nation must operate under the same rules as all other EU nations, the UK does not. So with the UK you can get something different from the EU, that was the entire premise/reason for Brexit.

Ultimately the real thing the UK will benefit from is two fold: 1. As a single nation they can (well should be able to except for the fact they have large divides that slow everything) adjust faster that anything the EU can do with it's large ponderous bureaucracy (intentionaly designed as such) and the need to gain approval of 27 separate nations. 2. As a place directly next to the EU and intimately involved with such yet also outside of it, EU entities/companies will use the differences that exist to their benefit, maximizing such.

Tugg
 
Olddog
Posts: 1648
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:07 pm

Because you seriously believe that the EU did not account for it and added enough safeguards in the TCA ?
Have a read at: https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-not-in-europe-but-ruled-by-europe/
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11532
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:26 pm

Olddog wrote:
Because you seriously believe that the EU did not account for it and added enough safeguards in the TCA ?
Have a read at: https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-not-in-europe-but-ruled-by-europe/

That is an opinion piece, not the law and actual agreement. And while there are safeguards etc., there are also delays in them that will be exploited.

Again, the UK is not the EU now. There are unaccounted for differences between the two that will be found and taken advantage of by EU firms. That's just how business works.

Will there be penalties for some? Sure. But not for all and everything will be tested. And funnily enough, as I am indicating, it will be EU entities that will be benefiting, not evil old Britain trying to do anything dirty. And those same EU entities will work behind the scenes as they can to keep them.

To my point, the financial sector was essentially left out of the agreement.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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OA260
Posts: 25764
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:44 pm

Olddog wrote:
Because you seriously believe that the EU did not account for it and added enough safeguards in the TCA ?
Have a read at: https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-not-in-europe-but-ruled-by-europe/


This is a blog of personal opinion and looking for donations Via Paypal .
 
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SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1939
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:14 pm

Bostrom wrote:
OA260 wrote:
The British and Irish produce for beef/dairy are among the best in the world anyway so its not as if we are being forced to have inferior produce.


Can anyone remind me, which European country had a huge BSE (mad cow disease) outbreak that actually forced the EU to abandon the principle of the single market and ban beef exports from that country to the rest of EU?


Every country I've lived in has claimed their beef/dairy is the best in the world. That's all bollocks (or bullocks). Seriously, it means nothing.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:14 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
olle wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Two days in and all is well.

No issues at the Border. No issues with stuff in the stores. The economy hasn’t tanked.


Considering that most suppliers has been preparing for a No Deal or a very bad FTA with huge amount of paperwork by filling up warehouses in UK the last 3-4 weeks in combination with most EU highways are not allowed to be used by haulers over weekends is this surprising?

The divorce between UK and EU will not be a heart attack but rather diabetes, not a big bang but slowly. In the end the result will be the same with less economical relations UK EU executed in small company to company decisions when defining supplier chains or on individual basis when applying for a job abroad does not result because of paperwork.


We are still doomed then? Poverty and hardship awaits us all?


I do not think anyone is doomed. Supply chains will be easier to maintain compared no deal. The FTA probably saved UK car manufactoring.

But it will be a few more minutes per truck and this is supposed to created jams in kent.
 
LJ
Posts: 5468
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:12 pm

Dutch customs officiaks have denied entry into The Netherlands for 10 British nationals as of January 1st. The reason is that these persons did not have an emergency reason to enter the country. Persons from third countries need to have an emergency reason to enter The Netherlands (and probaby the same for other Schengen countries). As the UK is no lnger EU member, these rules also apply to British nationals as of January 1st 2021.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/01/dutch-border-police-bar-10-british-nationals-from-entering-the-netherlands/
 
JJJ
Posts: 4118
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:12 pm

LJ wrote:
Dutch customs officiaks have denied entry into The Netherlands for 10 British nationals as of January 1st. The reason is that these persons did not have an emergency reason to enter the country. Persons from third countries need to have an emergency reason to enter The Netherlands (and probaby the same for other Schengen countries). As the UK is no lnger EU member, these rules also apply to British nationals as of January 1st 2021.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/01/dutch-border-police-bar-10-british-nationals-from-entering-the-netherlands/


Likewise for Spain.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

Those who were too late in getting the new residency card are being rejected at the airport because both BA and Iberia aren't accepting the old green residency card.

Covid restrictions mean they can't go back to their home because they can't prove they're Spanish residents.
 
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OA260
Posts: 25764
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:41 pm

JJJ wrote:
LJ wrote:
Dutch customs officiaks have denied entry into The Netherlands for 10 British nationals as of January 1st. The reason is that these persons did not have an emergency reason to enter the country. Persons from third countries need to have an emergency reason to enter The Netherlands (and probaby the same for other Schengen countries). As the UK is no lnger EU member, these rules also apply to British nationals as of January 1st 2021.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/01/dutch-border-police-bar-10-british-nationals-from-entering-the-netherlands/


Likewise for Spain.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

Those who were too late in getting the new residency card are being rejected at the airport because both BA and Iberia aren't accepting the old green residency card.

Covid restrictions mean they can't go back to their home because they can't prove they're Spanish residents.


Yet the British Embassy in Madrid and the Spanish authorities have reiterated that they are valid. So they need to ensure that the airlines and Police in Spain know what the rule of law is on the matter.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4118
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:26 pm

OA260 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
LJ wrote:
Dutch customs officiaks have denied entry into The Netherlands for 10 British nationals as of January 1st. The reason is that these persons did not have an emergency reason to enter the country. Persons from third countries need to have an emergency reason to enter The Netherlands (and probaby the same for other Schengen countries). As the UK is no lnger EU member, these rules also apply to British nationals as of January 1st 2021.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/01/dutch-border-police-bar-10-british-nationals-from-entering-the-netherlands/


Likewise for Spain.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

Those who were too late in getting the new residency card are being rejected at the airport because both BA and Iberia aren't accepting the old green residency card.

Covid restrictions mean they can't go back to their home because they can't prove they're Spanish residents.


Yet the British Embassy in Madrid and the Spanish authorities have reiterated that they are valid. So they need to ensure that the airlines and Police in Spain know what the rule of law is on the matter.


Only for a limited time. NIE is for EU nationals only (which is why BA/IB got it wrong in the first place, as there will be a cutoff line at some point).
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:32 pm

JJJ wrote:
OA260 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Likewise for Spain.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other

Those who were too late in getting the new residency card are being rejected at the airport because both BA and Iberia aren't accepting the old green residency card.

Covid restrictions mean they can't go back to their home because they can't prove they're Spanish residents.


Yet the British Embassy in Madrid and the Spanish authorities have reiterated that they are valid. So they need to ensure that the airlines and Police in Spain know what the rule of law is on the matter.


Only for a limited time. NIE is for EU nationals only (which is why BA/IB got it wrong in the first place, as there will be a cutoff line at some point).


Indeed due to being overwhelmed in applications no one could collect their new cards that is why the Spanish authorities extended the validity. It begs the question as to why no one at BA/IB could not contact the Spanish authorities to seek clarification. Its not as if they don't deal with complex immigration and visa issues all the time especially with C-19 and its forever changing rules. Genuine mistake maybe but I do hope the passengers are compensated. They did everything the law required of them.

Not sure why there was an issue with the dual Portuguese EU national though who was initially refused before getting a reprieve last minute in BCN.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1532
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:15 pm

Klaus wrote:
They are both reversible. Brexit is just such a moronic and dead-end idea that its reversal is by far more likely, while an independent Scotland could gain a massive win in status, influence and economic opportunities as a fully voting and veto-equipped member of the European Union, with full EU backing in all its negotiations with England about border issues as we've seen with Ireland already.


Not quite. My point was that the UK leaving the EU can be reversed at some point if a future government chooses to rejoin, but Scotland leaving the UK will be permanent. The UK government made this point clear in 2014.

As for border issues, that will be the case if Scotland chose to do that after formally joining the EU. I fully expect the future relationship/trade deal etc with the UK to actually be one of the first things a newly-independent Scotland sorts out as it will be massively disruptive for both sides if there is no agreement. About 60% or so of Scotland’s trade is with the rest of the UK and people cross the border on a daily basis for work and leisure.

Klaus wrote:
I see, so Indyref1 and the Brexit referendum were to be won on small or even tiny majorities, but an Indiyref2 should now get "special" treatment in contrast to both of those?

Yeah, sounds perfectly fair, now doesn't it? Who could ever object to that? :crazy:


It’s not a case of special treatment or fairness, but more ensuring a vote for a major constitutional change will fly with a significant majority. The 2016 EU referendum result has proven the fallacy of making a major constitutional change based on a simple majority given the vote was 52/48 in favour. If a similar result was achieved in a future Scottish independence referendum, you can bet the nationalists will run with it in much the same way Brexiteer’s ran with it regardless of how many people object to it. My view is that if these things are to be undertaken peacefully, it needs widespread support.

Nicola Sturgeon has been clear she will only pursue a legally-binding referendum consented by a Section 30 order (little wonder some of her other fellow nationalists are getting restless as some would no doubt pursue one anyway such as what we saw in Catalonia a few years ago). If a supermajority is a condition of granting a request, it will no doubt put Sturgeon in a tricky position as to whether she will accept as she’s smart enough to realise it will need much more people to support the idea of independence than at present, therefore making her life harder. My view is that she would reluctantly accept given her last 2 requests have been rejected. But then it’s not in the interests of the UK government to be bowing to Sturgeon’s demands and letting her dictate the terms of a referendum, especially given just 6 years have passed since the last one.

I see Boris Johnson has been reminding people that the last referendum was once-in-a-generation and set out his definition of what a generation means. The second point is just his opinion of course and a future PM might see it differently, but the principle about a generation being more than just a single figure of years stands.

And for the avoidance of doubt, I didn’t agree with having these last two referendums requiring a simple majority to pass. But here we are!

olle wrote:
I actually think that the Covid crisis handling and EU is a very interesting case;

UK Brexiteers and also as shown here at A.Net the national vs national handling of crisis handling use this as an example why EU do not work.

If the people had been more educated in the limits of EU and what powers the EU nations including UK in the past while UK was one of the nation avoiding giving EU powers would had understood that this was not an EU problem.

Now in the mirror we see that perhaps it should be handled on a EU level and not nation vs nation.


But this is a choice that the EU member states need to actively take decision about, it just not just happen.


It’s noticeable how pressure was being placed on the EMA to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine after the UK and a few other nations approved it, even though EU nations could have granted emergency authorisation in their own countries if they wanted and how just a few weeks prior they were criticising the MHRA in the UK for approving it so quickly.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-c ... KKBN28O1KW

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-healt ... KKBN28C1B9

If anything, what COVID-19 has shown is that some nations have a tendency to look after their own, especially when this pandemic has shown that fast action is needed.
 
steveinbc
Posts: 353
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:15 pm

[quote="ElPistolero"][quote="noviorbis77"]Two days in and all is well.

As for the economy tanking, it’s probably baked into the UK’s emergence as the worst performing G7 economy (even Italy is doing better), and one of the worst in the developed world. Will be difficult to see how much Brexit has tanked an already tanked economy for a while yet.

https://www.ft.com/content/1f52fd2b-7da ... c38f819b8d

COVID provides camouflage, but even camouflage has its limits.[/quote]
According to this website, the UK did the best of the "Big 4" ie did better in terms of GDP growth in 2019 than France, Germany or Italy. Additionally, the UK was ranked the second largest European economy some 10% larger than France and substantially greater than Italy or Spain. So the "tanked" economy statement isn't supported by the statistics. Furthermore, the Centre for Economic & Business research has announced that the UK reclaimed the 5th largest world economy in December 2020. "Britain has become the world's fifth-largest economy once again, despite suffering a deep recession as a result of the coronavirus pandemic. According to the annual league table produced by the Centre for Economic and Business Research (CEBR), the UK has leapfrogged India and is set to push further ahead of seventh-placed France in the decade after Brexit."

Hence the belief that the UK can not "do it alone" is not supported by independent statistical and research agencies.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/686 ... st-europe/
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:57 pm

In a democracy, ultimately the people are the only commentators that matter and there it seems the British are not very impressed with what they've seen from their sovereign government on both Brexit and the Covid pandemic, which is turning into a national disaster in the UK:

Tories would lose no less than 81 seats if elections were held right now, thus losing their majority.
A hung parliament would be the outcome as Labour too would fall short of a majority
The PM himself would lose his own seat in Uxbridge (!), an absolute first for a British PM to be unseated by his own constituants.
The SNP would win all but 2 of the 59 Scottish seats (!): Scottish referendum 2.0, hello anyone?!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 81587.html
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:24 pm

OA260 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
OA260 wrote:

Yet the British Embassy in Madrid and the Spanish authorities have reiterated that they are valid. So they need to ensure that the airlines and Police in Spain know what the rule of law is on the matter.


Only for a limited time. NIE is for EU nationals only (which is why BA/IB got it wrong in the first place, as there will be a cutoff line at some point).


Indeed due to being overwhelmed in applications no one could collect their new cards that is why the Spanish authorities extended the validity. It begs the question as to why no one at BA/IB could not contact the Spanish authorities to seek clarification. Its not as if they don't deal with complex immigration and visa issues all the time especially with C-19 and its forever changing rules. Genuine mistake maybe but I do hope the passengers are compensated. They did everything the law required of them.

Not sure why there was an issue with the dual Portuguese EU national though who was initially refused before getting a reprieve last minute in BCN.


The issue here is COVID restrictions. EU national or not, travel to Spain from the UK is restricted unless you're Spanish or a legal resident of Spain.

It doesn't matter if the person in question was Portuguese if he couldn't prove he was a Spanish resident.
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:51 pm

JJJ wrote:
OA260 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Only for a limited time. NIE is for EU nationals only (which is why BA/IB got it wrong in the first place, as there will be a cutoff line at some point).


Indeed due to being overwhelmed in applications no one could collect their new cards that is why the Spanish authorities extended the validity. It begs the question as to why no one at BA/IB could not contact the Spanish authorities to seek clarification. Its not as if they don't deal with complex immigration and visa issues all the time especially with C-19 and its forever changing rules. Genuine mistake maybe but I do hope the passengers are compensated. They did everything the law required of them.

Not sure why there was an issue with the dual Portuguese EU national though who was initially refused before getting a reprieve last minute in BCN.


The issue here is COVID restrictions. EU national or not, travel to Spain from the UK is restricted unless you're Spanish or a legal resident of Spain.

It doesn't matter if the person in question was Portuguese if he couldn't prove he was a Spanish resident.


Whatever happened the Police finally let him off the plane after initially refusing him at passport control and putting him back onboard.
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 543
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:05 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
I fully expect the future relationship/trade deal etc with the UK to actually be one of the first things a newly-independent Scotland sorts out as it will be massively disruptive for both sides if there is no agreement. About 60% or so of Scotland’s trade is with the rest of the UK and people cross the border on a daily basis for work and leisure.


Almost funny. It reminds something that happened 11 months ago ! :
I fully expect the future relationship/trade deal etc with the EU to actually be one of the first things a newly-independent UK sorts out as it will be massively disruptive for both sides if there is no agreement. About 60% or so of UK trade is with the rest of the EU and people cross the border on a daily basis for work and leisure.
Yeah, works just fine.

Let's hope that should independance have to happen, the 4 UK nations would manage it more smoothly than brexit. The divorce phase like the new relationship arrangements.

Boeing74741R wrote:
It’s not a case of special treatment or fairness, but more ensuring a vote for a major constitutional change will fly with a significant majority. The 2016 EU referendum result has proven the fallacy of making a major constitutional change based on a simple majority given the vote was 52/48 in favour. If a similar result was achieved in a future Scottish independence referendum, you can bet the nationalists will run with it in much the same way Brexiteer’s ran with it regardless of how many people object to it. My view is that if these things are to be undertaken peacefully, it needs widespread support.

This is very reasonable lesson leart , very sensible.

Maybe not very relevant in this particular case if those polls are accurate :
sabenapilot wrote:
The SNP would win all but 2 of the 59 Scottish seats (!): Scottish referendum 2.0, hello anyone?!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 81587.html

(The link doesn't work though, could you please provide it ?)

Those elections are rather far in the future compared to the Scottish elections, but of course a good indication. If SNP realize a score like this while campaigning heavily for a referendum The UK gov would have a clear indication of what the Scots wants now, not in next generation. Don't you think so ?

I appreciate that the gov is quite good at ignoring completely 48% of voters and can't be legaly forced to listen to them specificaly anyway.

Boeing74741R wrote:
It’s noticeable how pressure was being placed on the EMA to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine after the UK and a few other nations approved it, even though EU nations could have granted emergency authorisation in their own countries if they wanted and how just a few weeks prior they were criticising the MHRA in the UK for approving it so quickly.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-c ... KKBN28O1KW

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-healt ... KKBN28C1B9

If anything, what COVID-19 has shown is that some nations have a tendency to look after their own, especially when this pandemic has shown that fast action is needed.


Would be embarrassing if France was one of EU MS pressuring, given how bad their are starting the vaccination campaign :ill: :roll:
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Covid-19-vaccine-Why-France-is-slower-than-other-countries
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2404
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:38 am

steveinbc wrote:
According to this website, the UK did the best of the "Big 4" ie did better in terms of GDP growth in 2019 than France, Germany or Italy. Additionally, the UK was ranked the second largest European economy some 10% larger than France and substantially greater than Italy or Spain. So the "tanked" economy statement isn't supported by the statistics. Furthermore, the Centre for Economic & Business research has announced that the UK reclaimed the 5th largest world economy in December 2020. "Britain has become the world's fifth-largest economy once again, despite suffering a deep recession as a result of the coronavirus pandemic. According to the annual league table produced by the Centre for Economic and Business Research (CEBR), the UK has leapfrogged India and is set to push further ahead of seventh-placed France in the decade after Brexit."

Hence the belief that the UK can not "do it alone" is not supported by independent statistical and research agencies.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/686 ... st-europe/


Quite a few straw men in there.

No one suggested the UK “can not do it alone”, whatever that means.

Nor does the UK’s performance in 2019, or it’s subsequent hopping up and/or down rankings change the fact that it’s economy is currently tanking, and it’s hard to decipher exactly what Brexit has contributed to that - other than to make it’s economic hit bigger than, well, pretty much every developed country.

I have no doubt the UK will be fine ... eventually. Japan came back from two atomic bomb hits and a world war.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1939
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:25 am

OA260 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
OA260 wrote:

Yet the British Embassy in Madrid and the Spanish authorities have reiterated that they are valid. So they need to ensure that the airlines and Police in Spain know what the rule of law is on the matter.


Only for a limited time. NIE is for EU nationals only (which is why BA/IB got it wrong in the first place, as there will be a cutoff line at some point).


Indeed due to being overwhelmed in applications no one could collect their new cards that is why the Spanish authorities extended the validity. It begs the question as to why no one at BA/IB could not contact the Spanish authorities to seek clarification. Its not as if they don't deal with complex immigration and visa issues all the time especially with C-19 and its forever changing rules. Genuine mistake maybe but I do hope the passengers are compensated. They did everything the law required of them.

Not sure why there was an issue with the dual Portuguese EU national though who was initially refused before getting a reprieve last minute in BCN.


I am very aware of the difficulties in both knowing and interpreting the ever changing and often conflicting rules involved here as my wife has just spent yet another late night researching and calling people for their opinions. She is on the front line at the moment, not with BA but can sympathise.

When governmental memos, airline internal updates, guidance from bodies such as IATA, stories in the media and proclamations from politicians disagree not only with each other but (alarmingly frequently) with their own previous statements or even within a single communication, staff are literally making it up as they go in some cases.

Add to this that the rules really are changing day to day and that every country has its own set of rules and that there are a myriad of clauses and exceptions and that they're all badly written - therefore open to interpretation - and that every airline has its own take on how to implement them...

Not helped by passengers being mostly clueless.

I should mention that most of this chaos is covid related but there are Brexit-shaped spanners thrown into the machine to add to the fun.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:59 am

Edinburgh Zoo has to make tough choices as its Scottish wildcat conservation project doesn't get any EU funding anymore... I wonder how many UK charities are in the same position.

“We have a leading conservation genetics laboratory at Edinburgh Zoo which supports conservation projects around the world, and suddenly access to both funding and other researchers for this cutting-edge science has disappeared.

“While the full impact is yet to be seen, we are also facing increased challenges around moving animals between zoos, many of which are part of important European endangered species breeding programmes.”

The programme is about £900,000 short, meaning it may have to be cancelled.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/03/edinburgh-zoo-may-have-to-send-giant-pandas-back-to-china
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:34 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
Would be embarrassing if France was one of EU MS pressuring, given how bad their are starting the vaccination campaign :ill: :roll:
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Covid-19-vaccine-Why-France-is-slower-than-other-countries


France was a proponent of going it slow due to antivaxxers, the pressure came from Germany. France wasn't ready for the earlier date.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:53 pm

Sainsbury apparantly did its Brexit planning not entirely correct.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-sainsburys-northern-ireland-spar-irish-sea-border-b1782470.html

Oh well, someone seems to make money out of someone else's bad plannig. Now hoping for Sainsbury that customers don't prefer the products from Spar.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:14 pm

Brexit news – live: EU firms refuse UK deliveries as British supermarkets hit by disruption

A growing number of online retailers in the EU have decided they won’t deliver to Britain because of the new costs involved in sending packages after Brexit. European firms have said they are unwilling to register for VAT in the UK.

It comes as problems emerged with the first lorries to cross from Great Britain into Northern Ireland. Some food shipments did not have the correct paperwork, with waits of 10 hours at new border posts. Disruption means Sainsbury’s has reportedly lost around 700 product lines in NI – and the giant has been forced to stock goods from Spar.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 82440.html
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:34 pm

LJ wrote:
Sainsbury apparantly did its Brexit planning not entirely correct.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-sainsburys-northern-ireland-spar-irish-sea-border-b1782470.html

Oh well, someone seems to make money out of someone else's bad plannig. Now hoping for Sainsbury that customers don't prefer the products from Spar.


They must have resolved it pretty quickly as I was in a Sainsburys store in NI yesterday and managed to get everything I usually buy. Due to lockdown some people were buying more than usual and some items were low but certainly no empty shelves.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3713
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:29 pm

olle wrote:
Brexit news – live: EU firms refuse UK deliveries as British supermarkets hit by disruption

A growing number of online retailers in the EU have decided they won’t deliver to Britain because of the new costs involved in sending packages after Brexit. European firms have said they are unwilling to register for VAT in the UK.

It comes as problems emerged with the first lorries to cross from Great Britain into Northern Ireland. Some food shipments did not have the correct paperwork, with waits of 10 hours at new border posts. Disruption means Sainsbury’s has reportedly lost around 700 product lines in NI – and the giant has been forced to stock goods from Spar.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 82440.html


There's now a hefty premium to be paid to trucking companies for deliveries to the UK: shipping costs have QUADRUPLED since the end of last year.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11532
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:33 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
There's now a hefty premium to be paid to trucking companies for deliveries to the UK: shipping costs have QUADRUPLED since the end of last year.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe

Well... not really. I read this earlier and this is a key part:
The figures reflect the moment of maximum chaos at British ports, when the French government shut the border to contain a new strain of Covid-19. Thousands of trucks piled up on both sides of the English Channel, and more shippers rejected cargoes to avoid getting trapped in transit over the holiday break.

Four days into the new year, the long lines of trucks at the border have largely dissipated after France relaxed its controls. The freight rejection rate ticked down in the last week but remains 79% higher than the third-quarter average.


So still higher but not quadruple, rather just shy of double.

Tugg
 
LJ
Posts: 5468
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:33 am

Eurid has suspended 81,000 URLs in the .eu domain as the owners do not have EU residency or citizenship anymore after Brexit. Owners have until March 31st to provide an EU address or their URL will be withdrawn (which can claimed by anyone after January 22nd 2022).

https://www.zdnet.com/article/81000-uk-owned-eu-domains-suspended-as-brexit-transition-ends/

Note, it seems that country domains of countries in the EU will become invalid as well as those domains are for anyone in the EEA, of which the UK is also not a member anymore. However, no action from the local regulators have been reported (yet).
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:26 am

And yet another "small" inconvenience due to Brexit. I know, there are probably more, but as mentioned before the end of the Transition period, the devil is always in the detail. Maybe the UK needs more civil servants with expert knowledge?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/05/mother-fears-son-could-die-as-brexit-stops-medical-cannabis-medicine-supply

BTW I know this will be getting boring as more stories pop up. But then again, should we just look the other way or realizing that the being in the Single Market may have some benefits?
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:20 pm

https://news.sky.com/story/boe-governor ... sf-twitter

I suspect we’ll be seeing a lot of the doom stories and predicitions from our resident experts exposed as nonsense.
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:28 pm

According to some reports NI is starving due to food shortages . I can confirm that both in NI and border areas we are ok . If Cadburys run out I will sound the alarm for the Red Cross to do air drops ;)
Because that would indeed be a real “deal breaker”
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:06 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
https://news.sky.com/story/boe-governor-brexit-job-exodus-substantially-less-than-predicted-12180684?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

I suspect we’ll be seeing a lot of the doom stories and predicitions from our resident experts exposed as nonsense.


I recall we only mentioned the 7,500 which was reported by one of the accounting firms. Then again, it's not only the 7,000 high paid employees what's moved.
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:16 pm

LJ wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
https://news.sky.com/story/boe-governor-brexit-job-exodus-substantially-less-than-predicted-12180684?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

I suspect we’ll be seeing a lot of the doom stories and predicitions from our resident experts exposed as nonsense.


I recall we only mentioned the 7,500 which was reported by one of the accounting firms. Then again, it's not only the 7,000 high paid employees what's moved.


Must be a slow news day in some places. In Ireland we had nothing but Brexit but now its done the attention is on all things Covid 19 and the vaccination program and rightfully so . Brexit is a minor issue now compared to the gigantic effort needed globally on Covid 19. The average guy in the street doesn't care.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 5140
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:36 pm

There is no news that NI is starving. There are shortages of some food stuffs.
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:42 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
There is no news that NI is starving. There are shortages of some food stuffs.


Not in places I have shopped in . Checked with others who live in various places in the Province too and they had no issues in Derry , Belfast , Portadown , Bangor , Lisburn , Newry so it covers a good area. Some items were low but its first week in New Year and a new lockdown so pretty normal really. If there are any minor issues they certainly have not been disrupting the majority of shoppers .
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 1164
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:45 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
There is no news that NI is starving. There are shortages of some food stuffs.


People are starving in Northern Ireland?
 
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OA260
Posts: 25764
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:46 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
There is no news that NI is starving. There are shortages of some food stuffs.


People are starving in Northern Ireland?


See my post a few posts up I was being ironic ;)
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 5140
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:30 pm

LOL, I missed that.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:51 pm

Interesting Express article about the next negotiation about FTA for Financial and other services;

Is it not a strategic mistake to make an FTA with EU in the areas where EU has most to gain first and then start the negotiations where UK will gain and EU has all interest to make the industry to move inside EU again?

----------------------------------

BREXIT Britain must not become a "rule-taker" from Brussels when financial services are negotiated, Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey has said.

Financial services contributed £132billion to the economy in 2018, almost seven percent of Britain's total economic output.

Last year the City of London exported £25billion of services to the EU, making Europe a key market on which a finance deal must be negotiated.

The UK has already granted equivalence status to EU finance firms in 17 areas, but Brussels has so far only given British businesses temporary equvilance status.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... rew-bailey
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 12687
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:04 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
https://news.sky.com/story/boe-governor-brexit-job-exodus-substantially-less-than-predicted-12180684?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

I suspect we’ll be seeing a lot of the doom stories and predicitions from our resident experts exposed as nonsense.


And our resident experts of Brexit all their perceived unicorns exposed?

The reality is that Brexit is harmful to the economy and that can even be seen in these early stages. But that was known to anyone, even before the vote. So Brexiteers voted. for this.

Most of these predictions were under the pretense that there would be a hard Brexit. Because Johnson gave in at the last possible moment. and didn't want to do a real hard Brexit, some of the worst consequences. were avoided. So not quite sure what you want to achieve with that remark.

5 billion dollars has been transferred out of the city of London in shares since Brexit. According to the CEO of a trading firm. He has seen 99% of his business shift from the UK to Europe. While Boris Johnson and the Brexiteers were preoccupied with "fish", they dropped the ball on the other aspects of the economy, principally financial services.
Last edited by Dutchy on Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:07 pm

olle : it makes sense because the EU has been clear that services are for EU members (or EEA), basically.
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