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94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:47 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, even Brexiteers are now admitting there are massive problems with trade flows to the UK and within the UK to NI, but you've guessed it... they are blaming all of those on the EU.

Now they say "the EU needs us to fail" by making trade as hard as possible (whereas it's just the standard trade protocol for any third country, a status the UK vehemently sought to 'gain') or the EU wants to break up the UK (the UK agreed to the special status for NI and if the people of Scotland express their desire for independance in a constitutionally arranged referendum, the EU will of course accept the result as it has with each referendum result in the UK...)

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... johnson-vn


If we go back to the threads from the beginning in 2016 the whole argument has been between people trying to explain the difference of full membership down to the "Canada" model or "the stairway" and brexiteers consider that UK for being UK as a big country and market believes that EU will accept whatever deal UK put in front of them.

Already after a few days we can see that UK got a deal following the "stairway", EU supported Boris by asking "what shall we say in public for MPs to accept it?". EU desired to say nothing, moving MEPs election as far to the left as possible in order to let UK politicians and MPs not be listening to the EU parliament discussions to early.

UK Brexiteers always talked about democratic deficit. Now we see that this very basic FTA was rush thru UK parliament without anyone reading it. Not even the UK government it seems. EU parliament requested time to read and understand it and they got it. The debate in EU parliament will be interesting to follow.

But if I had a small UK company selling to EU I would consider do what many Norwegian has recognized long time ago that a company or warehouse handling admin inside EU is required for not making customers angry.
 
GDB
Posts: 15631
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:02 am

Dutchy wrote:
GDB wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The term pro-Brexit is a misnomer now, as is pro-remain. I would suggest: remainers (status-quo supporters) and pro-rejoin-ers.



Or, in the same order, 'EDs' (Easily Duped) and 'CALs' (Correct All Along).


I would not call the remaineers, easily duped. The barrage of lies spilled over them was tremendous. It is disrespectful.


I read your response as 'remainers' being the new term for the pro Brexit lot, as in remain outside.
Mind you, it is hard to name them without resorting to profanity.
Bottom line, if you voted to leave and are now bitching, screw you, I only feel sorry for those affected by their stupidity and often racism, who knew this was coming, so either voted to stay in the EU or were for various reasons denied a vote, (as in Dad and Granny screwed the under 18's in 2016 their future).

Anyone who ever took obvious charlatans like Farage, Johnson and the 'Haunted Pencil' Ress-Mogg seriously.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3783
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:33 am

Seems the british government is preoccupied with the important stuff of the UK-EU relations...

The UK has been insisting it will not give the EU ambassador to the UK, João Vale de Almeida, and his 25-strong mission the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention since the EU is not a sovereign nation in its own right. Although the UK insists its position is not born of Euroscepticism, the UK is virtually unique in taking this position. The EU enjoys full diplomatic status with all 142 other countries around the world where it has delegations, and where its ambassadors are all granted the same status as diplomats representing sovereign nations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tic-status

That will bode well for the outcome of the negotations with the EU on granting the UK a deal in the service sectors too: first snub them and then try to get something from them that is vital for your own economy. You got to wonder who's coming up with these kinds of childish strategies in London, don't you?
 
Ertro
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:50 am

Dutchy wrote:
The term pro-Brexit is a misnomer now, as is pro-remain. I would suggest: remainers (status-quo supporters) and pro-rejoin-ers.


I would suggest not to re-use words to suddenly mean 180 degrees different than what they meant just a couple of months ago. In this way nobody can understand anything what anybody says like what happens if somebody calls Nigel Farage a remainer and listeners go "huh". Pro-brexit is not misnomer now just because brexit is reality just like "pro-UK" is not impossible word just because UK does exist and neither is "pro-Dutch" impossible word.

There are several camps of people in UK and not all old remainers have turned into pro-rejoiners. There are many who want to see what happens before they make up their mind and many old pro-brexiteers want to take further wild ride to make brexit even deeper an further. They are not happy with how things are now.

Let's wait until the people themselves give themselves names what they want themselves to be called and before that happens I can use he old words in situations where I think they make still sense.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:38 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Seems the british government is preoccupied with the important stuff of the UK-EU relations...

The UK has been insisting it will not give the EU ambassador to the UK, João Vale de Almeida, and his 25-strong mission the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention since the EU is not a sovereign nation in its own right. Although the UK insists its position is not born of Euroscepticism, the UK is virtually unique in taking this position. The EU enjoys full diplomatic status with all 142 other countries around the world where it has delegations, and where its ambassadors are all granted the same status as diplomats representing sovereign nations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tic-status

That will bode well for the outcome of the negotations with the EU on granting the UK a deal in the service sectors too: first snub them and then try to get something from them that is vital for your own economy. You got to wonder who's coming up with these kinds of childish strategies in London, don't you?


Very intelligent....
 
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SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:44 pm

T4thH wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Not entirely unsurprisingly, EU logistics firms try to avoid the UK so that assets aren't caught up in border chaos.


I ordered a new laptop battery around Christmas - old one started failing in November and we wanted to get a replacement before 2021 for obvious reasons.

So I bought it before any potential price rise, but now they've got my money and the shipment is delayed. Hopefully it will arrive at some point if the importer doesn't go bust (the manufacturer is in Hong Kong, at least it's not a European import).


OK, you are aware, that Li batteries are shipped....by ship? There not so many delivery services, who are willed to ship them by plane. You will have to wait.


Yes, well aware. Was hoping they'd have it in stock in the UK (seems it's their most popular replacement laptop battery) but got a mail that shipment is delayed. My post was just wondering aloud if this Brexit chaos is going to affect it.
 
GDB
Posts: 15631
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:59 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
T4thH wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

I ordered a new laptop battery around Christmas - old one started failing in November and we wanted to get a replacement before 2021 for obvious reasons.

So I bought it before any potential price rise, but now they've got my money and the shipment is delayed. Hopefully it will arrive at some point if the importer doesn't go bust (the manufacturer is in Hong Kong, at least it's not a European import).


OK, you are aware, that Li batteries are shipped....by ship? There not so many delivery services, who are willed to ship them by plane. You will have to wait.


Yes, well aware. Was hoping they'd have it in stock in the UK (seems it's their most popular replacement laptop battery) but got a mail that shipment is delayed. My post was just wondering aloud if this Brexit chaos is going to affect it.


The medication I take, of various kinds, to control Rheumatoid Arthritis and Epilepsy are starting to become short on supply, not being stopped, yet, just the Pharmacist warning me that 'we are getting shortages'.
It isn't Covid, since that's not been an issue, at all, until this new year.
Not surprised, since this was warned about in 2016 by those experts that that Micheal Gove told us we had to stop listening to.
(His father was in the Scottish fishing industry, he contradicted his son's assertions back in 2016 too, another one of those pesky experts).

Like all those dopey old biddies who bang on about 'all the foreigners in our hospitals', best answer to that 'you mean the ones working in them?'
Last edited by GDB on Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1850
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:00 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
T4thH wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

I ordered a new laptop battery around Christmas - old one started failing in November and we wanted to get a replacement before 2021 for obvious reasons.

So I bought it before any potential price rise, but now they've got my money and the shipment is delayed. Hopefully it will arrive at some point if the importer doesn't go bust (the manufacturer is in Hong Kong, at least it's not a European import).


OK, you are aware, that Li batteries are shipped....by ship? There not so many delivery services, who are willed to ship them by plane. You will have to wait.


Yes, well aware. Was hoping they'd have it in stock in the UK (seems it's their most popular replacement laptop battery) but got a mail that shipment is delayed. My post was just wondering aloud if this Brexit chaos is going to affect it.


In your case, the COVID chaos will be most likely responsible (if even). BREXIT will not be responsible for everything, in some few cases, it is something else. So BREXIT can not be blamed for everything.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 5036
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:01 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Interesting reading, but what amazes me is that so many business people in the UK only start to find out the consequences of Brexit, now?
I mean: there's been a referendum campaign, hasn't there? There's been 4.5 years of 'preparation' and 'information' by the UK government, hasn't there?
What have business people been told to believe, expect and prepare for, for more than half a decade, if I may ask?


Anyone with expertise who had the audacity to suggest that - even with a deal - things would not be the Sunlit Uplands that brexiteers dreamed of once outside of the Customs Union was labeled part of "Project Fear" which somehow made them non-credible in the eyes of the Leave dominated media.

What I find amusing is the repeated suggestion that the problems at the borders that exporters and importers are now facing are somehow "surprises". There is absolutely nothing surprising about this unless one had their fingers in their ears for the last five years.

sabenapilot wrote:
The consequences of Brexit were dead-obvious right from the start since they flow automatically from the choices made!

:checkmark:

sabenapilot wrote:
They're all well documented, as they are the normal rules of trade for a third country, which the UK now is for the EU.
Brexit would have consequences, as M. Barnier repeatedly mentioned and not surprisingly he was right.


:checkmark:

frmrCapCadet wrote:
And we know a great source of modern hightech ships that can be converted to freighters for the Irish/mainland EU trade. (see cruise liner thread. LOL)


Wait, what did I miss?
 
bennett123
Posts: 11284
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:15 pm

I think he is suggesting Cruise ship being used for cargo.
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 5036
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:28 pm

Dutchy wrote:
GDB wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

The term pro-Brexit is a misnomer now, as is pro-remain. I would suggest: remainers (status-quo supporters) and pro-rejoin-ers.



Or, in the same order, 'EDs' (Easily Duped) and 'CALs' (Correct All Along).


I would not call the remaineers, easily duped. The barrage of lies spilled over them was tremendous. It is disrespectful.


Compassion for the conned, contempt for the conmen. Though IMO it's still fine to hold contempt for those who spread hatred and bile against EU citizens and EU countries and the "I support a hard brexit purely to spite the remainers" types.

sabenapilot wrote:
Seems the british government is preoccupied with the important stuff of the UK-EU relations...

The UK has been insisting it will not give the EU ambassador to the UK, João Vale de Almeida, and his 25-strong mission the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention since the EU is not a sovereign nation in its own right. Although the UK insists its position is not born of Euroscepticism, the UK is virtually unique in taking this position. The EU enjoys full diplomatic status with all 142 other countries around the world where it has delegations, and where its ambassadors are all granted the same status as diplomats representing sovereign nations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tic-status

That will bode well for the outcome of the negotations with the EU on granting the UK a deal in the service sectors too: first snub them and then try to get something from them that is vital for your own economy. You got to wonder who's coming up with these kinds of childish strategies in London, don't you?


I want to say that this is just the Westminster government trying to start the next short-term culture war. If you look at Boris' government they thrive off of culture wars which the tabloid media can help them stoke whilst they objectively are absolutely hopeless at governing. As Coronavirus deaths reach new peaks and as the brexit situation at the border becomes more and more noticeable, it's essential to keep public attention focused on issues where they have someone to get angry at. Hence more stupid short term culture wars such as:

- "The unpatriotic BBC won't have Rule Britania sung at The Proms"
- "The EU demands an embassy/customs post in Northern Ireland - how dare them"
- "How dare the EU try and take our fish"
- "Greedy and Lazy Single Mothers are ungrateful at the quality of School Lunches"
- "Ireland's unreasonable expectation of the Good Friday Agreement being upheld is going to torpedo brexit",
- "We don't need the EU and will be fine on our own vs FTA with EU"
- "Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham vs Westminster govt"
- "Big Ben must Bong for Brexit vs that's a waste of money"

The "EU is not a country yet they are demanding full diplomatic status" fits in nicely with this theme. Nodoubt they will eventually relent, but it will give them a few news-cycles where they can direct their voterbase's anger at the EU rather than risk said voterbase starting to try and hold them accountable for their various governance failures.
 
Ertro
Posts: 204
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:28 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:34 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I think he is suggesting Cruise ship being used for cargo.


Cruise ships internal structure is full of walls dividing the space into small compartments with tiny doors and many of those walls are structural. Cargo ships need large open areas for trucks to drive in and structural elements to hold upper floors from collapsing need to be built around the large open spaces. So cruise ships cannot be converted to carry cargo.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 15741
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:12 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Seems the british government is preoccupied with the important stuff of the UK-EU relations...

The UK has been insisting it will not give the EU ambassador to the UK, João Vale de Almeida, and his 25-strong mission the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention since the EU is not a sovereign nation in its own right. Although the UK insists its position is not born of Euroscepticism, the UK is virtually unique in taking this position. The EU enjoys full diplomatic status with all 142 other countries around the world where it has delegations, and where its ambassadors are all granted the same status as diplomats representing sovereign nations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tic-status

That will bode well for the outcome of the negotations with the EU on granting the UK a deal in the service sectors too: first snub them and then try to get something from them that is vital for your own economy. You got to wonder who's coming up with these kinds of childish strategies in London, don't you?


I know that as an EU citizen I can step into any of the 27 member states' embassy anywhere and be offered assistance, is "Europa House" in London also an embassy like that ?
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 13095
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:21 pm

Aesma wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Seems the british government is preoccupied with the important stuff of the UK-EU relations...

The UK has been insisting it will not give the EU ambassador to the UK, João Vale de Almeida, and his 25-strong mission the privileges and immunities afforded to diplomats under the Vienna Convention since the EU is not a sovereign nation in its own right. Although the UK insists its position is not born of Euroscepticism, the UK is virtually unique in taking this position. The EU enjoys full diplomatic status with all 142 other countries around the world where it has delegations, and where its ambassadors are all granted the same status as diplomats representing sovereign nations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tic-status

That will bode well for the outcome of the negotations with the EU on granting the UK a deal in the service sectors too: first snub them and then try to get something from them that is vital for your own economy. You got to wonder who's coming up with these kinds of childish strategies in London, don't you?


I know that as an EU citizen I can step into any of the 27 member states' embassy anywhere and be offered assistance, is "Europa House" in London also an embassy like that ?


Isn't the Europe House an EU "embassy" in EU countries? We have in The Hague a "huis van Europa".

And I concur, it is childish not too grand that right. The same with musicians, London didn't want free travel for them even though the EU offered it to the UK. I would say, let them have it, it is their country, they are sovereign. In the end, they will return to a more normal and practical approach, instead of this 'principle' stand on all things concerning the EU. It is just a phase.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 529
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:23 pm

Dutchy wrote:
And I concur, it is childish not too grand that right. The same with musicians, London didn't want free travel for them even though the EU offered it to the UK. I would say, let them have it, it is their country, they are sovereign. In the end, they will return to a more normal and practical approach, instead of this 'principle' stand on all things concerning the EU. It is just a phase.


Both topics are petty and pathetic. Typical of the current govenment however, so does not suprise me at all.

For the muscians I assume the govenment doesn't want to be seen to give preferential treatment, but there were some plenty loud enough Brexit supporting musicians who are now demanding free travel.

Just such a mess.
 
GDB
Posts: 15631
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:28 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
And I concur, it is childish not too grand that right. The same with musicians, London didn't want free travel for them even though the EU offered it to the UK. I would say, let them have it, it is their country, they are sovereign. In the end, they will return to a more normal and practical approach, instead of this 'principle' stand on all things concerning the EU. It is just a phase.


Both topics are petty and pathetic. Typical of the current govenment however, so does not suprise me at all.

For the muscians I assume the govenment doesn't want to be seen to give preferential treatment, but there were some plenty loud enough Brexit supporting musicians who are now demanding free travel.

Just such a mess.


The only one I can think of was the lead singer of The Who, whatever his talents there he's about as bright as the fish he farms.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 10417
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:15 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
And I concur, it is childish not too grand that right. The same with musicians, London didn't want free travel for them even though the EU offered it to the UK. I would say, let them have it, it is their country, they are sovereign. In the end, they will return to a more normal and practical approach, instead of this 'principle' stand on all things concerning the EU. It is just a phase.


Both topics are petty and pathetic. Typical of the current govenment however, so does not suprise me at all.

For the muscians I assume the govenment doesn't want to be seen to give preferential treatment, but there were some plenty loud enough Brexit supporting musicians who are now demanding free travel.

Just such a mess.


Oh, they would totally accept solution for British artists, they just do not accept to give the same to European artists.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:33 pm

T4thH wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
My post was just wondering aloud if this Brexit chaos is going to affect it.


In your case, the COVID chaos will be most likely responsible (if even). BREXIT will not be responsible for everything, in some few cases, it is something else. So BREXIT can not be blamed for everything.


"My post was just wondering aloud if this Brexit chaos is going to affect it"...
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3783
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:17 pm

zkojq wrote:
I want to say that this is just the Westminster government trying to start the next short-term culture war. If you look at Boris' government they thrive off of culture wars which the tabloid media can help them stoke whilst they objectively are absolutely hopeless at governing. As Coronavirus deaths reach new peaks and as the brexit situation at the border becomes more and more noticeable, it's essential to keep public attention focused on issues where they have someone to get angry at. Hence more stupid short term culture wars such as:

- "The unpatriotic BBC won't have Rule Britania sung at The Proms"
- "The EU demands an embassy/customs post in Northern Ireland - how dare them"
- "How dare the EU try and take our fish"
- "Greedy and Lazy Single Mothers are ungrateful at the quality of School Lunches"
- "Ireland's unreasonable expectation of the Good Friday Agreement being upheld is going to torpedo brexit",
- "We don't need the EU and will be fine on our own vs FTA with EU"
- "Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham vs Westminster govt"
- "Big Ben must Bong for Brexit vs that's a waste of money"

The "EU is not a country yet they are demanding full diplomatic status" fits in nicely with this theme. Nodoubt they will eventually relent, but it will give them a few news-cycles where they can direct their voterbase's anger at the EU rather than risk said voterbase starting to try and hold them accountable for their various governance failures.



Seems the tabloids are also starting culture wars with the US now

"President Biden removed the bust of W Churchill from the Oval Office"
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13869 ... ohnson-ont
Suggesting the US' President is hating the UK as N. Farage already explicitly said
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... es-UK.html
Already preparting their excuse for the fact that fantastic UK-US FTA they have long promissed their readers isn't going to happen soon either?
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 8:38 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:49 pm

Aesma wrote:
I know that as an EU citizen I can step into any of the 27 member states' embassy anywhere and be offered assistance, is "Europa House" in London also an embassy like that ?


We can do that ???
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 13095
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:23 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I know that as an EU citizen I can step into any of the 27 member states' embassy anywhere and be offered assistance, is "Europa House" in London also an embassy like that ?


We can do that ???


yes, but I would go to your own embassy. But you have seen it during the early days of the pandemic, many EU citizens brought home, not necessary by their own government.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 1151
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:29 pm

zkojq wrote:
At least for the big artists, this is definitely something I'd put in the "I don't care" category. They've got the money to pay someone to find a work around and fill out the paperwork.


I agree, especially for the big artists that also are leavers. But, it will be a huge obstacle for smaller bands that do everything on their own, a jazz trio from Bristol who wants to play at a jazz festival in Toulouse will now have a lot more to do compared to last year.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14915
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:12 am

Dutchy wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I know that as an EU citizen I can step into any of the 27 member states' embassy anywhere and be offered assistance, is "Europa House" in London also an embassy like that ?


We can do that ???


yes, but I would go to your own embassy. But you have seen it during the early days of the pandemic, many EU citizens brought home, not necessary by their own government.


Yup, "EU Citizen" is not just an empty shell.
One should however not forget this only applies where your home country doesn´t have an Embassy or Consulate.

best regards
Thomas
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:35 am

sabenapilot wrote:
zkojq wrote:
I want to say that this is just the Westminster government trying to start the next short-term culture war. If you look at Boris' government they thrive off of culture wars which the tabloid media can help them stoke whilst they objectively are absolutely hopeless at governing. As Coronavirus deaths reach new peaks and as the brexit situation at the border becomes more and more noticeable, it's essential to keep public attention focused on issues where they have someone to get angry at. Hence more stupid short term culture wars such as:

- "The unpatriotic BBC won't have Rule Britania sung at The Proms"
- "The EU demands an embassy/customs post in Northern Ireland - how dare them"
- "How dare the EU try and take our fish"
- "Greedy and Lazy Single Mothers are ungrateful at the quality of School Lunches"
- "Ireland's unreasonable expectation of the Good Friday Agreement being upheld is going to torpedo brexit",
- "We don't need the EU and will be fine on our own vs FTA with EU"
- "Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham vs Westminster govt"
- "Big Ben must Bong for Brexit vs that's a waste of money"

The "EU is not a country yet they are demanding full diplomatic status" fits in nicely with this theme. Nodoubt they will eventually relent, but it will give them a few news-cycles where they can direct their voterbase's anger at the EU rather than risk said voterbase starting to try and hold them accountable for their various governance failures.



Seems the tabloids are also starting culture wars with the US now

"President Biden removed the bust of W Churchill from the Oval Office"
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13869 ... ohnson-ont
Suggesting the US' President is hating the UK as N. Farage already explicitly said
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... es-UK.html
Already preparting their excuse for the fact that fantastic UK-US FTA they have long promissed their readers isn't going to happen soon either?


Who cares what Frothage has to say? He's got his Brexit and his lorry park in the garden of England..

Biden being of Irish ancestry probably has the same view of Churchill that India has..The other thing being if Trump and BoJo were such great buddies why was no FTA agreed before the 1st of January.. It's not like they didn't have any time to do it?

Biden has always said that his relationship with the Uk government is based on their respect of the Good Friday agreement.. An agreement that Bojo and company were willing to throw out the window in their attempt to get one over the EU..
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:46 am

vrbarreto wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
zkojq wrote:
I want to say that this is just the Westminster government trying to start the next short-term culture war. If you look at Boris' government they thrive off of culture wars which the tabloid media can help them stoke whilst they objectively are absolutely hopeless at governing. As Coronavirus deaths reach new peaks and as the brexit situation at the border becomes more and more noticeable, it's essential to keep public attention focused on issues where they have someone to get angry at. Hence more stupid short term culture wars such as:

- "The unpatriotic BBC won't have Rule Britania sung at The Proms"
- "The EU demands an embassy/customs post in Northern Ireland - how dare them"
- "How dare the EU try and take our fish"
- "Greedy and Lazy Single Mothers are ungrateful at the quality of School Lunches"
- "Ireland's unreasonable expectation of the Good Friday Agreement being upheld is going to torpedo brexit",
- "We don't need the EU and will be fine on our own vs FTA with EU"
- "Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham vs Westminster govt"
- "Big Ben must Bong for Brexit vs that's a waste of money"

The "EU is not a country yet they are demanding full diplomatic status" fits in nicely with this theme. Nodoubt they will eventually relent, but it will give them a few news-cycles where they can direct their voterbase's anger at the EU rather than risk said voterbase starting to try and hold them accountable for their various governance failures.



Seems the tabloids are also starting culture wars with the US now

"President Biden removed the bust of W Churchill from the Oval Office"
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13869 ... ohnson-ont
Suggesting the US' President is hating the UK as N. Farage already explicitly said
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... es-UK.html
Already preparting their excuse for the fact that fantastic UK-US FTA they have long promissed their readers isn't going to happen soon either?


Who cares what Frothage has to say? He's got his Brexit and his lorry park in the garden of England..

Biden being of Irish ancestry probably has the same view of Churchill that India has..The other thing being if Trump and BoJo were such great buddies why was no FTA agreed before the 1st of January.. It's not like they didn't have any time to do it?

Biden has always said that his relationship with the Uk government is based on their respect of the Good Friday agreement.. An agreement that Bojo and company were willing to throw out the window in their attempt to get one over the EU..


The Empire that Churchill was part of was not seen very favorable in the rest of the world in 1939. Special the Boer wars had a very negative impact at least here in Sweden.

USA as a recall also had a very negative view and during the war Rosevelt did a lot of things to dismantle the empire.
 
GDB
Posts: 15631
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:39 am

olle wrote:
vrbarreto wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:


Seems the tabloids are also starting culture wars with the US now

"President Biden removed the bust of W Churchill from the Oval Office"
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13869 ... ohnson-ont
Suggesting the US' President is hating the UK as N. Farage already explicitly said
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... es-UK.html
Already preparting their excuse for the fact that fantastic UK-US FTA they have long promissed their readers isn't going to happen soon either?


Who cares what Frothage has to say? He's got his Brexit and his lorry park in the garden of England..

Biden being of Irish ancestry probably has the same view of Churchill that India has..The other thing being if Trump and BoJo were such great buddies why was no FTA agreed before the 1st of January.. It's not like they didn't have any time to do it?

Biden has always said that his relationship with the Uk government is based on their respect of the Good Friday agreement.. An agreement that Bojo and company were willing to throw out the window in their attempt to get one over the EU..


The Empire that Churchill was part of was not seen very favorable in the rest of the world in 1939. Special the Boer wars had a very negative impact at least here in Sweden.

USA as a recall also had a very negative view and during the war Rosevelt did a lot of things to dismantle the empire.



Who cares? I expect US Presidents to have US historical figures in the WH. But they are dead right on the stupidity of undermining the GFA and right to be angry about it, as should people in the UK.
They hate the GFA also as it was largely a product at our end by a non Tory government, plus of course their wilful ignorance.
The stupidest politicians in modern UK history are all pro Brexit or it's enablers, like that idiot Corbyn which in his case was due to his lack of smarts and him still holding on to what Tony Benn told him to think in 1975. FFS!

To the other point, what's the different between the British Empire and the US?
The British admit they had one.
(The grabbing of the remnants of the Spanish one, Hawaii, grabbing parts of Mexico, arguably the Munroe Doctrine, to slightly stretch the point, expansion past the boundaries post US independence). They also tried to have what became Canada too, 'Manifest Destiny?' WTF?

Churchill was rightly feted for his wartime leadership in WW2, just as well the resources of empire and commonwealth were there to help defeat the genocidal Nazi's and Japanese, (Q. What was the largest volunteer army in history? A. The WW2 Indian one).
The 19th Century Royal Navy, the main force policing the empire, also played a role in ending slavery in the US by interdiction of the slave ship routes.
Yes, FDR used to chide Churchill about in particular India, to which Churchill asked how are the American Indians doing?

But it rightly ended, kicked off by the Attlee government with Indian independence, what did the British people get out this starting with India going? A free at the point of use public health service for a start
For the first two years post WW2 the US treated the UK almost like a hostile state, usually with the excuse of being anti imperialist, (not of course to advance even further US business interests), then they woke up to the threat from the USSR and by the final ending of empire by the 1960's got all pissy at this British final retreat from it, (and threatened economic retaliation, made worse when the Wilson government refused to take part in that well planned and executed intervention in Vietnam).

It has been suggested that this whole Brexit stupidity is in part a nostalgia trip by some of Empire.
Maybe, yet France (as did most European powers) also had an empire, don't have that oddness, indeed does being in the EU make the French and others feel less about themselves, clearly not so maybe there is something in that idea.
Most of it's political backers here are idiots like Farage and Johnson who do seem to have a nostalgia for empire, maybe it's those awful schools they went to. Not awful as in being poorly served, quite the opposite.

So why was the British Empire so much bigger than the rest? Two words. Industrial Revolution.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:59 am

It seems like the ports in Wales are empty;

IRISH lorry drivers are choosing to bypass Welsh ports to avoid filling out mountains of paperwork which is leaving Holyhead port, the second busiest port in the country, practically empty.

Hauliers who typically travelled through the UK to enter mainland Europe are instead choosing routes that go directly into France or Spain from Ireland. The new routes are longer and cost more, however, drivers prefer those over facing custom rules post-Brexit that could cripple their job quotas. The move has meant major ferry operators working from Welsh ports are now looking elsewhere leading to chaos for Wales' economy.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... -latest-vn
 
GDB
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:23 pm

olle wrote:
It seems like the ports in Wales are empty;

IRISH lorry drivers are choosing to bypass Welsh ports to avoid filling out mountains of paperwork which is leaving Holyhead port, the second busiest port in the country, practically empty.

Hauliers who typically travelled through the UK to enter mainland Europe are instead choosing routes that go directly into France or Spain from Ireland. The new routes are longer and cost more, however, drivers prefer those over facing custom rules post-Brexit that could cripple their job quotas. The move has meant major ferry operators working from Welsh ports are now looking elsewhere leading to chaos for Wales' economy.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... -latest-vn


Even an absurd and very pro Brexit UK tabloid has to report on it!
(The Express was anti Vaxx and full of Princess Di conspiracies).
But then a majority of Welsh voted Leave.
Karma is a...you know the next word,

Now Buffoon Boris burbles about it being sorted out by.......2026.
He calls it a 'Brexit Eldorado'.
(Some in the UK may remember 'Eldorado' being a risible, short lived, Brits in Spain set TV soap from the early 90's. Is that what he is on about? Who knows, it's all word salad with shit flavored dressing).
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:36 pm

GDB wrote:
olle wrote:

Now Buffoon Boris burbles about it being sorted out by.......2026.
He calls it a 'Brexit Eldorado'.
(Some in the UK may remember 'Eldorado' being a risible, short lived, Brits in Spain set TV soap from the early 90's. Is that what he is on about? Who knows, it's all word salad with plop flavored dressing).

Eldorado the TV series was an underrated gem.
The mythical (sensing a theme here) Eldorado city of gold is as likely to appear as his purple unicorns on sunlit uplands.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:42 pm

In the case of Wales what is crazy is that the goods we're talking about don't actually need much paperwork, as they come from the EU and go to the EU (NI=>UK should be continuing as usual right now), however since it's a complete mess at the south of England's ports, lorry parks etc., then they end up in that mess if they take the old inland route.
 
GDB
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:55 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
GDB wrote:
olle wrote:

Now Buffoon Boris burbles about it being sorted out by.......2026.
He calls it a 'Brexit Eldorado'.
(Some in the UK may remember 'Eldorado' being a risible, short lived, Brits in Spain set TV soap from the early 90's. Is that what he is on about? Who knows, it's all word salad with plop flavored dressing).

Eldorado the TV series was an underrated gem.
The mythical (sensing a theme here) Eldorado city of gold is as likely to appear as his purple unicorns on sunlit uplands.


It is easy to forget that Johnson's 'education' is a mediocre degree in stuff that might have happened a couple of thousand years ago.
Reminds me of what a contemporary of Ress-Mogg had to say of him at his Oxford debating society, 'like a posh Karl Pilkington'.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:48 pm

Wow things are becoming interesting again.....

MEPs vote to add Channel and British Virgin Islands to tax haven blacklist

UK overseas territories such as Cayman Islands also may lose protection once afforded by UK’s EU membership

The European parliament is pushing for UK overseas territories including the British Virgin Islands, Guernsey and Jersey to be added to an EU tax havens blacklist after the conclusion of the Brexit deal.

Sending a signal that tougher action on tax avoidance was required in response to the coronavirus pandemic, MEPs voted overwhelmingly in favour of adding more nations and territories to the list of non-cooperative jurisdictions.

The resolution, passed earlier this week by a vote of 587 to 50, included measures calling for the automatic inclusion on the blacklist of countries which use a 0% tax regime. Among these are the UK overseas territories, viewed by transparency campaigners as havens for tax avoidance.
EU blacklist names 17 tax havens and puts Caymans and Jersey on notice
Read more

Several jurisdictions have been taken on and off the list since it was first launched in 2017. However, those linked to EU member states have typically avoided inclusion, and the UK had lobbied to protect its overseas territories from past scrutiny.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:32 pm

Olddog wrote:
Wow things are becoming interesting again.....

MEPs vote to add Channel and British Virgin Islands to tax haven blacklist

UK overseas territories such as Cayman Islands also may lose protection once afforded by UK’s EU membership

The European parliament is pushing for UK overseas territories including the British Virgin Islands, Guernsey and Jersey to be added to an EU tax havens blacklist after the conclusion of the Brexit deal.

Sending a signal that tougher action on tax avoidance was required in response to the coronavirus pandemic, MEPs voted overwhelmingly in favour of adding more nations and territories to the list of non-cooperative jurisdictions.

The resolution, passed earlier this week by a vote of 587 to 50, included measures calling for the automatic inclusion on the blacklist of countries which use a 0% tax regime. Among these are the UK overseas territories, viewed by transparency campaigners as havens for tax avoidance.
EU blacklist names 17 tax havens and puts Caymans and Jersey on notice
Read more

Several jurisdictions have been taken on and off the list since it was first launched in 2017. However, those linked to EU member states have typically avoided inclusion, and the UK had lobbied to protect its overseas territories from past scrutiny.


UK government has protected these tax heavens at any cost until now.

What is interesting in the article is that there now is general measurements in place like 0% tax etc meaning that many territories now automatically will be declared tax heavens in the eye of EU.

What effects does this have on London and the services they can provide?
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:39 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I know that as an EU citizen I can step into any of the 27 member states' embassy anywhere and be offered assistance, is "Europa House" in London also an embassy like that ?


We can do that ???


As long as there's no embassy from your country on that particular place you will be afforded "national" treatment.

There's even an EU emergency travel document which any EU embassy can issue to EU nationals not of their country of representation.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:42 pm

UK retailers are considering abandoning goods returned by EU customers, with some even thinking of burning them due to the cost and trouble of bringing them back into the country.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of online shoppers have been faced with additional customs and delivery charges costing up to one-third of the price of items ordered from the EU. One shopper was asked to pay £77 in tax on £245 of clothes bought from a French website, The Times reports.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 91103.html
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:04 pm

Some good needs about Brexit too:

Upon request by the European Parliament, the European Commission will start to explore ways for Scotland to rejoin the Erasmus student exchange programme.
EU Commission President U. von der Leyen said she's exploring ways for bilateral talks on an arrangement between the EU commission and the Scottish Government directly on this, thus going over the heads of the British government.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19030 ... us-scheme/

The bypassing of the British government could also be seen as a reaction to the undiplomatic snub of the EU ambassador to the UK, which the UK government refuses to recognise as a diplomat in full right... ;)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/talk ... -nbbdlbxjh
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:06 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Some good needs about Brexit too:

Upon request by the European Parliament, the European Commission will start to explore ways for Scotland to rejoin the Erasmus student exchange programme.
EU Commission President U. von der Leyen said she's exploring ways for bilateral talks on an arrangement between the EU commission and the Scottish Government directly on this, thus going over the heads of the British government.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19030 ... us-scheme/

The bypassing of the British government could also be seen as a reaction to the undiplomatic snub of the EU ambassador to the UK, which the UK government refuses to recognise as a diplomat in full right... ;)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/talk ... -nbbdlbxjh


With ROI offering to pay for NI students it is soon only Wales and England students out.
 
User avatar
Grizzly410
Posts: 594
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:52 pm

JJJ wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I know that as an EU citizen I can step into any of the 27 member states' embassy anywhere and be offered assistance, is "Europa House" in London also an embassy like that ?


We can do that ???


As long as there's no embassy from your country on that particular place you will be afforded "national" treatment.

There's even an EU emergency travel document which any EU embassy can issue to EU nationals not of their country of representation.


tommy1808 wrote:
Yup, "EU Citizen" is not just an empty shell.
One should however not forget this only applies where your home country doesn´t have an Embassy or Consulate.

best regards
Thomas


Thanks for the explanation guys.

Of course it's not a feature used by most EU citizen, but that's some kind of invaluable privilege the day one needs it.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1976
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:12 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
T4thH wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
My post was just wondering aloud if this Brexit chaos is going to affect it.


In your case, the COVID chaos will be most likely responsible (if even). BREXIT will not be responsible for everything, in some few cases, it is something else. So BREXIT can not be blamed for everything.


"My post was just wondering aloud if this Brexit chaos is going to affect it"...


Oh joy... exactly what I feared:

BBC News wrote:
"We were paying £1,600 per container in November, this month we've been quoted over £10,000," says Helen White.

The founder of start-up Houseof.com, which imports lighting from China, says the rise in shipping costs means she's making a loss on what she sells.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55740063

So not only Brexit and Covid, also Chinese New Year and general global transport issues are converging for UK importers...
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:04 am

Grizzly410 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:

We can do that ???


As long as there's no embassy from your country on that particular place you will be afforded "national" treatment.

There's even an EU emergency travel document which any EU embassy can issue to EU nationals not of their country of representation.


tommy1808 wrote:
Yup, "EU Citizen" is not just an empty shell.
One should however not forget this only applies where your home country doesn´t have an Embassy or Consulate.

best regards
Thomas


Thanks for the explanation guys.

Of course it's not a feature used by most EU citizen, but that's some kind of invaluable privilege the day one needs it.


Invaluable privilege indeed and a little known fact to most people other than those who've had to use it already, or come from in the smaller EU countries, where their foreign office is making it widely known as the main back up procedure in case of the absence of an embassy of their own ina third country.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/pres ... -document/

So, the EU is issuing internationally accepted emergency travel documents to its citizens, yet the British government is the only country in the whole world that does not want to grand the EU ambassador the privilege of a full diplomatic status because it is 'just' an organisation of countries...
Just another proof of how childish this behaviour really is by the UK's foreign office.
 
GDB
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:21 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

As long as there's no embassy from your country on that particular place you will be afforded "national" treatment.

There's even an EU emergency travel document which any EU embassy can issue to EU nationals not of their country of representation.


tommy1808 wrote:
Yup, "EU Citizen" is not just an empty shell.
One should however not forget this only applies where your home country doesn´t have an Embassy or Consulate.

best regards
Thomas


Thanks for the explanation guys.

Of course it's not a feature used by most EU citizen, but that's some kind of invaluable privilege the day one needs it.


Invaluable privilege indeed and a little known fact to most people other than those who've had to use it already, or come from in the smaller EU countries, where their foreign office is making it widely known as the main back up procedure in case of the absence of an embassy of their own ina third country.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/pres ... -document/

So, the EU is issuing internationally accepted emergency travel documents to its citizens, yet the British government is the only country in the whole world that does not want to grand the EU ambassador the privilege of a full diplomatic status because it is 'just' an organisation of countries...
Just another proof of how childish this behaviour really is by the UK's foreign office.


Not the poor civil servants who have to try and administer this, just their nasty and stupid political boss, Dominic Raab, who fits in to the cabinet of dunces, a blank faced know nothing who you think 'has he been given a massive injection of Botox or does he always look like that what trying to think?'
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:24 am

Meanwhile, the number of sectors of the British economy that discovered they were somehow left out of the "zero tariff, zero quota" FTA with the EU is growing by the minute.

After the public complaints by:
fishermen
potato seed producers
musicians
and pretty much anybody who imports goods from the EU to repack tjhem and subsequently exports back to the EU
today it is the turn to cheesemakers selling directly to EU consumers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-hole

Simon Spurrell, a commercial cheesemaker in Cheshire, said it became clear over the last few weeks his successful online sales to EU consumers are now impossible to operate after discovering last minute he needed to provide a £180 health certificate on retail orders to consumers in the EU too, including those buying personal gift packs of his award-winning wax-wrapped cheese worth as little as £25 or £30.

He knew he would need customs declarations and health certificates signed off by vets to get his cheese into the EU after 1 January, and has successfully been getting pallets of the product across the Channel to wholesale customers. But what he had not anticipated was the requirement for health certificates to accompany online orders from private customers as well. “It’s as if someone forgot to negotiate this part of the deal, they forgot that there needed to be an exemption or allowance for the direct consumer sales."

To save his business he will now have to switch a £1m investment he was planning to make in a new distribution centre in Macclesfield to France in the EU, with the loss of 20 planned British jobs and tax revenues to the UK treasury. “It is a real shame because it means I’m now going to invest in France, provide French employment and then contribute to the EU tax system, which was pretty much going against the whole reason that we were meant to be leaving.”


In an indication that the UK government had no practical understanding of the consequences of its recenty signed FTA with the EU, Defra said it was continuing to “engage with the European commission and the EU member states to ensure that we share a common understanding of the EU’s export rules and how they should apply”. So after 48 years of membership of the Single Market, the UK needs time to fully 'understand' EU trade rules????
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3783
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:44 am

And another sign of just how smooth things are going is this topic of the civil aviation forum of this website:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456881

Further sign that the 'Brexit airbridge' as JOTA Aviation calls it, is indeed not just some niche market:
https://flyjota.com/bhx-ost-air-bridge- ... r5wrLWtuM8

And this one is also a consequence of Brexit:
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... saturdays/

Note also the last paragraph: The additional cargo capacity of Brussels Airlines will be in competition with the daily cargo flights of Virgin Atlantic deployed between the same airports, operated by Airbus A350-1000 or Boeing 787-9.

"Stop the steal" might soon become the slogan of Brexiteers too if this Brexit busting continues for much longer.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:22 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the number of sectors of the British economy that discovered they were somehow left out of the "zero tariff, zero quota" FTA with the EU is growing by the minute.

After the public complaints by:
fishermen
potato seed producers
musicians
and pretty much anybody who imports goods from the EU to repack tjhem and subsequently exports back to the EU
today it is the turn to cheesemakers selling directly to EU consumers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-hole

Simon Spurrell, a commercial cheesemaker in Cheshire, said it became clear over the last few weeks his successful online sales to EU consumers are now impossible to operate after discovering last minute he needed to provide a £180 health certificate on retail orders to consumers in the EU too, including those buying personal gift packs of his award-winning wax-wrapped cheese worth as little as £25 or £30.

He knew he would need customs declarations and health certificates signed off by vets to get his cheese into the EU after 1 January, and has successfully been getting pallets of the product across the Channel to wholesale customers. But what he had not anticipated was the requirement for health certificates to accompany online orders from private customers as well. “It’s as if someone forgot to negotiate this part of the deal, they forgot that there needed to be an exemption or allowance for the direct consumer sales."

To save his business he will now have to switch a £1m investment he was planning to make in a new distribution centre in Macclesfield to France in the EU, with the loss of 20 planned British jobs and tax revenues to the UK treasury. “It is a real shame because it means I’m now going to invest in France, provide French employment and then contribute to the EU tax system, which was pretty much going against the whole reason that we were meant to be leaving.”


In an indication that the UK government had no practical understanding of the consequences of its recenty signed FTA with the EU, Defra said it was continuing to “engage with the European commission and the EU member states to ensure that we share a common understanding of the EU’s export rules and how they should apply”. So after 48 years of membership of the Single Market, the UK needs time to fully 'understand' EU trade rules????


Of course this go both ways. Companies exporting to UK has problems with haulers do not even want to take their cargo or wants VAT paid up front.

The main question will if the two markets will accept rises in consumer prices or not. This is very much depending if there is alternative supplier already present in the market or not.

If there a local producer / supplier and if they demand a higher price there will be a new higher price level

If not the supplier exporting to the market will decrease there market share or dissapear.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3783
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:32 am

olle wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the number of sectors of the British economy that discovered they were somehow left out of the "zero tariff, zero quota" FTA with the EU is growing by the minute.

After the public complaints by:
fishermen
potato seed producers
musicians
and pretty much anybody who imports goods from the EU to repack tjhem and subsequently exports back to the EU
today it is the turn to cheesemakers selling directly to EU consumers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-hole

Simon Spurrell, a commercial cheesemaker in Cheshire, said it became clear over the last few weeks his successful online sales to EU consumers are now impossible to operate after discovering last minute he needed to provide a £180 health certificate on retail orders to consumers in the EU too, including those buying personal gift packs of his award-winning wax-wrapped cheese worth as little as £25 or £30.

He knew he would need customs declarations and health certificates signed off by vets to get his cheese into the EU after 1 January, and has successfully been getting pallets of the product across the Channel to wholesale customers. But what he had not anticipated was the requirement for health certificates to accompany online orders from private customers as well. “It’s as if someone forgot to negotiate this part of the deal, they forgot that there needed to be an exemption or allowance for the direct consumer sales."

To save his business he will now have to switch a £1m investment he was planning to make in a new distribution centre in Macclesfield to France in the EU, with the loss of 20 planned British jobs and tax revenues to the UK treasury. “It is a real shame because it means I’m now going to invest in France, provide French employment and then contribute to the EU tax system, which was pretty much going against the whole reason that we were meant to be leaving.”


In an indication that the UK government had no practical understanding of the consequences of its recenty signed FTA with the EU, Defra said it was continuing to “engage with the European commission and the EU member states to ensure that we share a common understanding of the EU’s export rules and how they should apply”. So after 48 years of membership of the Single Market, the UK needs time to fully 'understand' EU trade rules????


Of course this go both ways. Companies exporting to UK has problems with haulers do not even want to take their cargo or wants VAT paid up front.

The main question will if the two markets will accept rises in consumer prices or not. This is very much depending if there is alternative supplier already present in the market or not.

If there a local producer / supplier and if they demand a higher price there will be a new higher price level

If not the supplier exporting to the market will decrease there market share or dissapear.


Indeed, and in this relation, size does matter.
The SM being much bigger, it has more options to source from non-UK sources that the UK economy has options to source from non-EU sources, especially as for the latter, there's the additional handicap of often not having a real FTA to facilitate such non-EU trade and even if there is, it is still not offering any practical advantage over sourcing from the EU (via a very similar FTA).

The advantages of a SM can only be reproduced by being in the SM and that's an advantage only the EU (and the other EEA countries) have.
Something which has been said numerous times by Mr. M. Barnier during the Brexit negotations, yet which only now seem to be fully understood by the UK government as they grapple to get fixes to what they still call adjustment problems. These problems are not just a temporary snag however, they are inherent features of the third party relationship the UK absolutely wanted to have with it's biggest trading partner in which it is completely enclaved too, btw!
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:52 am

sabenapilot wrote:
olle wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, the number of sectors of the British economy that discovered they were somehow left out of the "zero tariff, zero quota" FTA with the EU is growing by the minute.

After the public complaints by:
fishermen
potato seed producers
musicians
and pretty much anybody who imports goods from the EU to repack tjhem and subsequently exports back to the EU
today it is the turn to cheesemakers selling directly to EU consumers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-hole

Simon Spurrell, a commercial cheesemaker in Cheshire, said it became clear over the last few weeks his successful online sales to EU consumers are now impossible to operate after discovering last minute he needed to provide a £180 health certificate on retail orders to consumers in the EU too, including those buying personal gift packs of his award-winning wax-wrapped cheese worth as little as £25 or £30.

He knew he would need customs declarations and health certificates signed off by vets to get his cheese into the EU after 1 January, and has successfully been getting pallets of the product across the Channel to wholesale customers. But what he had not anticipated was the requirement for health certificates to accompany online orders from private customers as well. “It’s as if someone forgot to negotiate this part of the deal, they forgot that there needed to be an exemption or allowance for the direct consumer sales."

To save his business he will now have to switch a £1m investment he was planning to make in a new distribution centre in Macclesfield to France in the EU, with the loss of 20 planned British jobs and tax revenues to the UK treasury. “It is a real shame because it means I’m now going to invest in France, provide French employment and then contribute to the EU tax system, which was pretty much going against the whole reason that we were meant to be leaving.”


In an indication that the UK government had no practical understanding of the consequences of its recenty signed FTA with the EU, Defra said it was continuing to “engage with the European commission and the EU member states to ensure that we share a common understanding of the EU’s export rules and how they should apply”. So after 48 years of membership of the Single Market, the UK needs time to fully 'understand' EU trade rules????


Of course this go both ways. Companies exporting to UK has problems with haulers do not even want to take their cargo or wants VAT paid up front.

The main question will if the two markets will accept rises in consumer prices or not. This is very much depending if there is alternative supplier already present in the market or not.

If there a local producer / supplier and if they demand a higher price there will be a new higher price level

If not the supplier exporting to the market will decrease there market share or dissapear.


Indeed, and in this relation, size does matter.
The SM being much bigger, it has more options to source from non-UK sources that the UK economy has options to source from non-EU sources, especially as for the latter, there's the additional handicap of often not having a real FTA to facilitate such non-EU trade and even if there is, it is still not offering any practical advantage over sourcing from the EU (via a very similar FTA).

The advantages of a SM can only be reproduced by being in the SM and that's an advantage only the EU (and the other EEA countries) have.
Something which has been said numerous times by Mr. M. Barnier during the Brexit negotations, yet which only now seem to be fully understood by the UK government as they grapple to get fixes to what they still call adjustment problems. These problems are not just a temporary snag however, they are inherent features of the third party relationship the UK absolutely wanted to have with it's biggest trading partner in which it is completely enclaved too, btw!


Brexit will be a use case in universities for a generation what Is the difference between a non quota non fee FTA and SM.

Norway that has a much closer relationship with EU then Brexit means tried to tell this to UK 2016 and that they are not happy with their situation special when they will be forced to move away from offshore industry - oil gas to a onshore export driven economy similar to Sweden and Denmark after 2030s.
 
GDB
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:36 pm

That Mr Sprullell voted 'R' (Rational/Remain), this is what makes me mad, his plans for new investment and jobs scuppered by disreputable politicians and thicko voters.
This will be repeated up and down the country.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:55 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
But what he had not anticipated was the requirement for health certificates to accompany online orders from private customers as well. “It’s as if someone forgot to negotiate this part of the deal, they forgot that there needed to be an exemption or allowance for the direct consumer sales."


I'm not sure that could have been negotiated. Otherwise other countries would have demanded the same, and we probably don't want for example chunks of meat or fish or fruit sent to individual customers from South America or Australia.

olle wrote:
Of course this go both ways.


Maybe, maybe not. If the UK can't produce locally and needs imports anyway, then it might make imports easier for third countries. That would include the EU.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:19 pm

Aesma wrote:

olle wrote:
Of course this go both ways.


Maybe, maybe not. If the UK can't produce locally and needs imports anyway, then it might make imports easier for third countries. That would include the EU.


That is what I mean by cutting both ways. UK and EU now has relation like EU and Canada and as I understand it similar to EU Japan and UK Japan.

It means that geographical considerations like cost and time will apply.

UK can export fish to Japan, but distance will demand flight cargo (expensive) if it shall be sold as fresh and not frozen for example.

Same UK can export to EU with a bit faster and cheaper then Japan to EU. But geography will always apply.

For NI this will probably mean the biggest change. I can see that pretty soon they will get more close to ROI then the rest of UK.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:40 pm

This sounds like the Norwegian experience;

EU companies exporting to UK will probably end up the same way.

-------------------

British businesses that export to the continent are being encouraged by government trade advisers to set up separate companies inside the EU in order to get around extra charges, paperwork and taxes resulting from Brexit, the Observer can reveal.

In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... shop-in-eu
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