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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:42 pm

Government advice ! That's funny.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:03 pm

To reduce costs small scale exporters probably should be setting up coops in the EU.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
bennett123
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:31 pm

I thought that the whole point was to leave the EU/SM.
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:01 pm

Tony Connely podcast yesterday contain a very interesting interview with Michel Barnier.
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/012 ... -speaking/

He has a book planned for April about the brexit negotiations !! :cheerful:

When asked about the first consequences, with shelfish producers for example :
Brexit means brexit. I sad it repeatidly during the last 4,5 years : It can't be business as usual.

Asked about his personnal view about the ambassador story : he only say it "would be wise for UK will find a clever solution for this diplomatic point".
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:39 pm

olle wrote:
-
British businesses that export to the continent are being encouraged by government trade advisers to set up separate companies inside the EU in order to get around extra charges, paperwork and taxes resulting from Brexit, the Observer can reveal.

In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... shop-in-eu



So basically the UK government's advisers are now secretly telling British companies to "bust Brexit" by moving part of their operations (and the corresponding jobs) over to the EU? It can't possibly get any more ridiculous than that now, can it? :eyepopping:

Referring to discussions with a senior DIT adviser on trade, Mr. Moss said: “This guy talked complete sense. What I said to him was, have I got another choice [other than to set up a company abroad]? He confirmed that he couldn’t see another way. He told me that what I was thinking of doing was the right thing, that he could see no other option. He did not see this as a teething problem. He said he had to be careful what he said, but he was very clear.”
Moss said it was now clear that Brexit was not about winning back control from the EU but investing in it to survive.This will mean laying off a small number of staff here and taking on people in the Netherlands.


As was said numerous times: these are not just teething problems as the official government line still is, this is the new reality: they are the automatic consequence of the sovereign choice made by the UK to become a third country: turkeys voting for christmas it seems indeed.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:14 am

olle wrote:
In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... shop-in-eu


I'm struggling a little bit to understand how this helps small businesses - if I manufacture widgets in the UK that I export to the EU, I don't see how having a distribution centre in, say, Belgium, helps as I still have to export my widgets to the distribution centre. Or is the suggestion that I setup a second manufacturing plant inside the EU?

#takingbackcontrol #somuchwinning
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
bennett123
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:18 am

The other possibility is that you export one big consignment per day/week/month to your distribution point and distribute from there, rather than send lots of small consignments directly.

Either way, hardly ideal.
 
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speedygonzales
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:21 am

scbriml wrote:
olle wrote:
In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... shop-in-eu


I'm struggling a little bit to understand how this helps small businesses - if I manufacture widgets in the UK that I export to the EU, I don't see how having a distribution centre in, say, Belgium, helps as I still have to export my widgets to the distribution centre. Or is the suggestion that I setup a second manufacturing plant inside the EU?

#takingbackcontrol #somuchwinning

I'm guessing that fewer large shipments are less paperwork than many small shipments.
Ignorance kills. :tombstone:
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:36 am

scbriml wrote:
olle wrote:
In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... shop-in-eu


I'm struggling a little bit to understand how this helps small businesses - if I manufacture widgets in the UK that I export to the EU, I don't see how having a distribution centre in, say, Belgium, helps as I still have to export my widgets to the distribution centre. Or is the suggestion that I setup a second manufacturing plant inside the EU?

#takingbackcontrol #somuchwinning


As has meanwhile been explained, the (relative) benefit is either:

1: for British exports manufactured in the UK,
a British manufacturer only needs 1 single big shipment to his EU distribution centre, rather than many individual shipments to EU consumers directly which each need their expensive documentation. Obviously this is cheaper and less labour intensive for the back office in the UK, yet it also means job losses in the UK to the benefit of jobs in the EU where the individual shipments are then packed and sent off from to the individual consumers. UK distribution centres are basically finished off, other than for local (UK only shipments). Bye Bye Britain as a logistic hub for Europe.

2: for British export initially manufactured in the EU:
a British seller avoids bringing them to the UK in the first place, thus bypassing the UK as his business hub completely even!

In both cases, it's leading to UK exporting companies avoiding their own country as much as they can, as soon as they can as their business platform of choice...
I let you guess what that does to the British GDB, as the British employment figures...
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:37 am

scbriml wrote:
olle wrote:
In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... shop-in-eu


I'm struggling a little bit to understand how this helps small businesses - if I manufacture widgets in the UK that I export to the EU, I don't see how having a distribution centre in, say, Belgium, helps as I still have to export my widgets to the distribution centre. Or is the suggestion that I setup a second manufacturing plant inside the EU?

#takingbackcontrol #somuchwinning


I think that this is the point. If you are a big corporate you can open local presence because additional cost do not become huge compared to your business. If you are small you need to keep costs down, you need to be agile and you cannot request often expensive help about local law, culture etc.

This is why SM, Free movement beside internet as sales channel made it possible for small often rural business to become specialized in something small making it work on a EU, SM basis.

I think some smaller company will open distribution but the micro companies will give up.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:40 am

Osborne writes about English nationalism;

------------------

Unleashing nationalism has made the future of the UK the central issue

By unleashing English nationalism, Brexit has made the future of the UK the central political issue of the coming decade. Northern Ireland is already heading for the exit door. By remaining in the EU single market, it is for all economic intents and purposes now slowly becoming part of a united Ireland. Its prosperity now depends on its relationship with Dublin (and Brussels), not London. The politics will follow.

Northern Irish unionists always feared the mainland was not sufficiently committed to their cause. Now their short-sighted support for Brexit (and unbelievably stupid decision to torpedo Theresa May’s deal that avoided separate Irish arrangements) has made those fears a reality. It pains me to report that most here and abroad will not care.

Scotland is an altogether different matter. Its history is our history. Its contribution to the world through its literature and philosophy, exploration and art, is our contribution. Its departure — with no disrespect to the Welsh — would represent the end of the United Kingdom. The rest of the world would instantly see that we were no longer a front-rank power, or even in the second row. We would instead be one of the great majority of countries who are on the receiving end of the decisions made by a few, subject to the values of others. We would become another historically interesting case study in how successful nations can perform unexpected acts of national suicide.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/nati ... 00299.html
 
GDB
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:20 am

olle, while I am no fan of Osborne he begged his friend and political confidant Cameron not to promise to do this stupid referendum.
But 'call me Dave' was panicked that a half drunk racist buffoon Farage was draining support for the Tories. He was also over confident he would easily win it.
However it is a truism that narrow, ignorant 'little englanders' can be found in any Tory club, much the same in less posh accents can also be heard to the old Working Mens clubs which traditionally had ties to Labour and the Unions.
The 'bloody foreigners' syndrome.
It saddens me that I have come to really dislike many aspects of my own country, I am reminded of an interview, from the 70's with a punk band, The Clash IIRC, when asked 'what do you think the so called 'man in the street' thinks of you and your music?'
Came the reply, 'I've met the 'man in the street' and he's a c**t'.
That's how I feel sadly.

With Barnier, let's not forget that the first 'Minister For Brexit' one David Davis, would turn up, usually late and empty handed, while Barnier and his team had all the documents and PC's well prepared.
(I wish Davis had beaten Cameron as Tory leader in 2005, since the more apparently voter friendly at the time Cameron could only manage to get in via a Coalition, Davis would likely have failed to do that even against an unpopular PM).
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:37 am

GDB, looking from outside UK but from a Scandinavia having the same tendencies, with the difference that both Denmark and Sweden realized its weak position in Europe a long time ago I wonder if English politics and nationalism is a copy of the Danish one leading to the disaster of war 1856 close making Denmark part of the German federation.

English politics still do not get it that today you do not send the army to a rebellion part of the country but to keep a country together it need to be a nice marriage for all involved.

Osborne was part of the politics leading to UK - non London - having a terrible 20 years.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:53 am

Something that is puzzling me. A few days ago, Nissan announced that it's Sunderland plant wouldn't close imminently - something which Brexiteers claimed as a Brexit Victory (odd since that assumes that the default position is for Brexit to cause the factory to close) and the CEO said that Brexit was a "positive" and gave Nissan a "competitive edge". Anyone here know what he's talking about? I'm genuinely curious.


Not a rosy picture for the UK right now. :(

There is more red tape.
The fishermen are worse off.
There is no frictionless trade.
There is a border in the Irish Sea.
America is not coming to the rescue.
And the Vote Leave government is now delivering the worst Covid death rate & one of the deepest recessions in the world.


https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/13 ... 7375850498

Olddog wrote:
Wow things are becoming interesting again.....

MEPs vote to add Channel and British Virgin Islands to tax haven blacklist

UK overseas territories such as Cayman Islands also may lose protection once afforded by UK’s EU membership

The European parliament is pushing for UK overseas territories including the British Virgin Islands, Guernsey and Jersey to be added to an EU tax havens blacklist after the conclusion of the Brexit deal.


Good. This is why - as a European citizen - I am pleased that the UK is out of the EU. This is a step in the right direction. Obviously the next steps are harder as they require "standards" to be raised in EU Tax Havens like Luxembourg, Netherlands and Malta.

sabenapilot wrote:
Some good needs about Brexit too:

Upon request by the European Parliament, the European Commission will start to explore ways for Scotland to rejoin the Erasmus student exchange programme.
EU Commission President U. von der Leyen said she's exploring ways for bilateral talks on an arrangement between the EU commission and the Scottish Government directly on this, thus going over the heads of the British government.


Excellent news.

Grizzly410 wrote:
He has a book planned for April about the brexit negotiations !! :cheerful:


Oooh that's going to be juicy - will definitely get it when it releases.
First to fly the 787-9
 
GDB
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:29 pm

zkojq wrote:
Something that is puzzling me. A few days ago, Nissan announced that it's Sunderland plant wouldn't close imminently - something which Brexiteers claimed as a Brexit Victory (odd since that assumes that the default position is for Brexit to cause the factory to close) and the CEO said that Brexit was a "positive" and gave Nissan a "competitive edge". Anyone here know what he's talking about? I'm genuinely curious.


Not a rosy picture for the UK right now. :(

There is more red tape.
The fishermen are worse off.
There is no frictionless trade.
There is a border in the Irish Sea.
America is not coming to the rescue.
And the Vote Leave government is now delivering the worst Covid death rate & one of the deepest recessions in the world.


https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/13 ... 7375850498

Olddog wrote:
Wow things are becoming interesting again.....

MEPs vote to add Channel and British Virgin Islands to tax haven blacklist

UK overseas territories such as Cayman Islands also may lose protection once afforded by UK’s EU membership

The European parliament is pushing for UK overseas territories including the British Virgin Islands, Guernsey and Jersey to be added to an EU tax havens blacklist after the conclusion of the Brexit deal.


Good. This is why - as a European citizen - I am pleased that the UK is out of the EU. This is a step in the right direction. Obviously the next steps are harder as they require "standards" to be raised in EU Tax Havens like Luxembourg, Netherlands and Malta.

sabenapilot wrote:
Some good needs about Brexit too:

Upon request by the European Parliament, the European Commission will start to explore ways for Scotland to rejoin the Erasmus student exchange programme.
EU Commission President U. von der Leyen said she's exploring ways for bilateral talks on an arrangement between the EU commission and the Scottish Government directly on this, thus going over the heads of the British government.


Excellent news.

Grizzly410 wrote:
He has a book planned for April about the brexit negotiations !! :cheerful:


Oooh that's going to be juicy - will definitely get it when it releases.


Just before Christmas Nissan (and likely others) warned in no uncertain terms that if a 'No Deal' (Which the Brexit ultras have always wanted) was allowed to happen, they'd be out. Hence the last minute, very thin 'deal', since the flight of these companies would impact most Brexit voting areas, many of which turned Tory in 2019 - though I suspect some of that was Labour voters staying at home as they could not stomach Corbyn, which I can understand to a point.

Worth noting however that May's government bunged Nissan some £61M in taxpayers money in 2018, (from a PM who accused the Opposition of having a 'magic money tree').

However, inward investment, which the UK led in for a couple of decades, has fallen off a cliff since Brexit.
A recent example being Elon Musk's plan for a battery megaplant to be located at a brownfield site in an area of Brexit voting high unemployment, instead switch to Germany. He blamed Brexit.

JCB, a Tory supporting pro Brexit company, is to invest in a new £400M plant - in Germany!
Pro Brexit tax dodgers James Dyson and James Ratcliff, moving out to Singapore and and France respectively,
And of course, the loathsome Rees-Mogg moving much of his operations to inside the EU Ireland.
(He's the one who said about Brexit advantages in maybe 50 years).

Brexit voting types seem to miss this, oh well, not reported in The Sun and the Daily Mail I bet.
Would it even make the penny drop for them anyway?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:59 pm

When even the government seems challenged to differentiate taxes and tariffs, how should the population understand what is going on. Boris is now talking about a marvellous trade deal with the USA, possibly tariff free. Which would give the UK tariff free access to the EU and the UK, except it does not. (third party status and all that)
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:22 pm

zkojq wrote:
Something that is puzzling me. A few days ago, Nissan announced that it's Sunderland plant wouldn't close imminently - something which Brexiteers claimed as a Brexit Victory (odd since that assumes that the default position is for Brexit to cause the factory to close) and the CEO said that Brexit was a "positive" and gave Nissan a "competitive edge". Anyone here know what he's talking about? I'm genuinely curious.


Basically that they used to buy batteries for the Leaf electric car in the US.

In order to comply with rules of origin new regulations they have to bring battery manufacturing to the UK in house.

So basically they're forced to bring a process in house for a process they had to outsource before, in business speak that has to be spun a certain way.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:23 pm

The US likely will remain pro-British. But the UK no longer brings a lot to the table. I have noted before, the UK was the favored place for its entry into the EU: goods, finances, defense, and perhaps most important political. The old ties of sentiment remain, most of us hope that the great research universities can survive, but I doubt they will be financed so well. It is painful to watch.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:17 pm

scbriml wrote:
olle wrote:
In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... shop-in-eu


I'm struggling a little bit to understand how this helps small businesses - if I manufacture widgets in the UK that I export to the EU, I don't see how having a distribution centre in, say, Belgium, helps as I still have to export my widgets to the distribution centre. Or is the suggestion that I setup a second manufacturing plant inside the EU?

#takingbackcontrol #somuchwinning



From https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ngly-steep

The HMRC estimates that Brexit demands that British companies complete 215m additional, often highly complex, documents a year. The cost of that alone on British businesses is thought to be around £7bn a year. If you make exporting and importing more difficult and more sluggish, at the same time as making cross-border transactions a great deal more costly, then it stands to reason that there will be less trade.

Faced with the heavy burdens imposed by Brexit, some companies will stop exporting to the EU because they can no longer find any profit in it. Other companies will move elements of their operations – and, in some cases, all of their business – out of the UK to inside the EU. Investment, jobs and tax revenues that would have benefited the UK will in future go to countries in the EU instead. This is already happening. Other companies will simply find that Brexit has left them unviable. Overwhelmed by the new costs, they will go to the wall.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:22 pm

Meanwhile the UK is facing a constitutional crisis as new polls reveal a majority of voters in Scotland and Northern Ireland want referendums on the break-up of Britain.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/unio ... -wwzpdlg7b

A four-country survey commissioned by The Times, based on separate polls in Scotland, Northern Ireland, England and Wales, also found that the sense of British identity that once bound the country together is disintegrating.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:10 pm

About Nissan I don't really know, keep in mind it's in an alliance with Renault, Nissan cars/SUV can be made in Renault plants and vice-versa if/when needed.

I guess they benefit from the last minute deal about batteries, that allow them to continue to import them for a few years.

There is also the rumored huge sums May gave them to stay.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:55 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
scbriml wrote:
olle wrote:
In an extraordinary twist to the Brexit saga, UK small businesses are being told by advisers working for the Department for International Trade (DIT) that the best way to circumvent border issues and VAT problems that have been piling up since 1 January is to register new firms within the EU single market, from where they can distribute their goods far more freely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... shop-in-eu


I'm struggling a little bit to understand how this helps small businesses - if I manufacture widgets in the UK that I export to the EU, I don't see how having a distribution centre in, say, Belgium, helps as I still have to export my widgets to the distribution centre. Or is the suggestion that I setup a second manufacturing plant inside the EU?

#takingbackcontrol #somuchwinning


As has meanwhile been explained, the (relative) benefit is either:

1: for British exports manufactured in the UK,
a British manufacturer only needs 1 single big shipment to his EU distribution centre, rather than many individual shipments to EU consumers directly which each need their expensive documentation. Obviously this is cheaper and less labour intensive for the back office in the UK, yet it also means job losses in the UK to the benefit of jobs in the EU where the individual shipments are then packed and sent off from to the individual consumers. UK distribution centres are basically finished off, other than for local (UK only shipments). Bye Bye Britain as a logistic hub for Europe.

2: for British export initially manufactured in the EU:
a British seller avoids bringing them to the UK in the first place, thus bypassing the UK as his business hub completely even!

In both cases, it's leading to UK exporting companies avoiding their own country as much as they can, as soon as they can as their business platform of choice...
I let you guess what that does to the British GDB, as the British employment figures...


You forget the most important one. Goods manufactured outside of both UK and EU will get a double hit with import duties if the distribution is done from the UK (or EU of an EU company selling to the UK). This is somthing you want to avoid. Added benefit is that you can use all the FTAs the EU has. Next, when in the EU you don't have to deal with all the seperate VAT regulations (in case of business to consumer). It's basically either get acquinted with all VAT rules (and other entry rules) of all EU countries you sell to or only one (the one where you have your distribution center).

BTW there is also talk that it may be beneficial to serve the UK out of an EU distribution center. Though it has some drawbacks, especially in supplying supermarkets in NI it may be better to have your distribution center in NI than in the UK. It's somethiing which will be looked at as supply chains change and they have to look at the most optimal supply chains for each type of good sold in bot UK but also NI, ROI and the rest of the EU.
 
GDB
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 pm

Aesma wrote:
About Nissan I don't really know, keep in mind it's in an alliance with Renault, Nissan cars/SUV can be made in Renault plants and vice-versa if/when needed.

I guess they benefit from the last minute deal about batteries, that allow them to continue to import them for a few years.

There is also the rumored huge sums May gave them to stay.


Some say around 61M, others 80M.
Either way, it's another stunning indictment and if the UK does break up again this was warned about and it was brushed off. And accepted by the second least well informed electorate in the Western World.
Come to Britain, where the streets are paved with.....dopey tw*ts.
'It's all the fault of foreigners.....innit'.

(Flashback, the end of the 70's, me in my history class, one of my best subjects in a crappy school, the teacher, Mr Hutchins, is talking, he uses the word 'Xenophobia' and mutters 'something too many people in this country suffer from'.
When asked what it means, he spells it on the blackboard telling us go look in the dictionary when we get home).
You can guess why this memory has come back to me in recent years.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:44 am

THe move that EU put UK tax heavens on black list seems to be moving things:

Was this not the main reason for many rich to support Brexit to maintain the tax heavens? Now they push to clean their acts.

--------------------------


Victor Bulmer-Thomas, a fellow at Chatham House and Caribbean expert, said the situation “looks very much like a rerun of the Turks and Caicos crisis a few years ago and is a reminder of how vulnerable the overseas territories are to the actions of unscrupulous individuals”.

He believes Westminster may have been prompted to intervene by reports that the EU plans to exploit Brexit by adding the nation to its list of tax havens. The sanction is largely symbolic, although banks could in future be reluctant to hold accounts for companies in blacklisted jurisdictions.

As Brexit continues to shake the foundations of Britain’s foreign relations, its ability to protect its territories from censure has been diminished. The onus is now on Raab to convince the EU that corruption will be stamped out.

Sir Gary Hickinbottom, whose experience includes a period as a supreme court judge in the Falkland Islands, has been chosen as the man for the job. He has already arrived on the main island of Tortola, where he gave a press conference on Friday. He has until July to make recommendations for action, including whether criminal proceedings should be brought against individuals.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... corruption
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:46 am

If FTA was so much better for UK how bad would a "No deal" situation had been?

The more I see the less I understand...
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:39 am

I'm looking at opening a company to do some specific operations a bit easier than in my country. Not to avoid tax, I would still pay taxes here, but to avoid too much scrutiny (basically for small operations like me, having to do tons of paperwork is unsustainable). It's funny how pretty soon all the things you find on Google are these islands...

olle : regarding paperwork no deal would be the same, or in some cases there would even be less paperwork (no need to prove origin of goods as that wouldn't change anything), however instead there would be the EU's WTO tarrifs.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:29 am

Aesma wrote:
I'm looking at opening a company to do some specific operations a bit easier than in my country. Not to avoid tax, I would still pay taxes here, but to avoid too much scrutiny (basically for small operations like me, having to do tons of paperwork is unsustainable). It's funny how pretty soon all the things you find on Google are these islands...

olle : regarding paperwork no deal would be the same, or in some cases there would even be less paperwork (no need to prove origin of goods as that wouldn't change anything), however instead there would be the EU's WTO tarrifs.


So with the current FTA, the paperwork and rd tape is the same or similar, tariff a bit smaller, UK still do not have any influence nor veto in order to protect its financial services that needs the tax heavens it seems for some part of its portfolio it seems.

The only ones that partly gain from this FTA it seems is the UK car industry that get paid from the UK government to handle the extra cost of keeping bigger stocks of items while no tariffs keeps the supplier chains open to most extent.

The small business including fishing and farming is kept out.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:44 am

That is because they never understood the difference between tax and tariff. Tariff free does not mean a person from country A can freely order goods in country B, it only means he does not have to pay a tariff when the goods enter country A. The single market meant that you (as a private customer) could easily order goods in country B and VAT and so on would be paid in country B and then the goods would be sent to you without any control when entering country A.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:04 pm

seahawk wrote:
That is because they never understood the difference between tax and tariff. Tariff free does not mean a person from country A can freely order goods in country B, it only means he does not have to pay a tariff when the goods enter country A. The single market meant that you (as a private customer) could easily order goods in country B and VAT and so on would be paid in country B and then the goods would be sent to you without any control when entering country A.



Going back 12-24 month and our endless discussions with for example A101 it seemed that it was impossible to even if the obvious was shown did not want to understand it.

What do A101 and the other brexiteers actually think about what happens now after 3 weeks?

I can actually understand the sovereign argument, but Brexit was much more then that actually presenting "Eldorado" on the Thames for the English people.

If Sovereign was so important why is Scotland and NI not allowed to take the same decision? Brexiteers "NEVER" to a sovereign Scotland or at least moving this to 2055 seems strange or even un strategic while it seems that 70% othe younger generation wants a "Sexit" from UK. So the Brexit government seems to play straight into the hands of SNP.
 
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:05 pm

 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:20 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:


President Macron was speaking in January 2018 when he made the claim


dang, editors at the Express seem to get pretty desperate.
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:23 pm

At the bottom of the article "38% would support Frexit". So no it won't happen. Even if it was a majority, it wouldn't happen. Because Macron (or any other decent French leader to come) would no be stupid enough to put it to a vote. Even more so after seeing what wonderful sunny uplands Brexit has produced.

tommy1808 wrote:
dang, editors at the Express seem to get pretty desperate.


Yup. More and more by the day. Pathetic excuse for a "newspaper". The Telegraph is getting desperate too. They are now firming blaming Germany for Brexit.
 
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:32 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
They are now firming blaming Germany for Brexit.


well.. Merkel didn´t force the EU to give the UK what they wanted... so *obviously* it is Germanys fault...

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:47 pm

Good luck to make any Exit in EU as it seems right now;

France as example have 72% looking positive on their EU membership, not mention Swexit chance where Sweden see 79% positive view of its membership.

By the way 57% of population of UK looks positive on EU.

---------------------------

Of the 19 countries that participated in both the latest and previous ESS, all EU member states saw support for EU membership rise. There was little change in Norway and Switzerland, which are not member states. The latest data was gathered while the UK was still negotiating its exit from the EU as a member state.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/25/uk/u ... index.html
 
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:14 pm

I guess this is fairly bad news for people who think that their mobile company won't do the same for International Roaming charges:

Mastercard to increase fees for UK purchases from EU
Departure from single market spells end for Brussels-mandated cap on transaction levies

Mastercard will increase fees more than fivefold when a British shopper uses a debit or credit card to buy from an EU-based company, sparking alarm among companies that rely on online payments and concern among MPs over higher consumer prices. Mastercard and Visa levy an “interchange” fee on behalf of banks for every debit or credit card payment that uses their networks. The EU introduced a cap in 2015 after concerns the hidden fees were leading to hundreds of millions of euros in costs for companies and higher prices for consumers.

But Mastercard has told merchants that the cap no longer applies to some transactions post-Brexit, because payments between the UK and European Economic Area are now deemed “inter-regional”. From October 15, Mastercard will charge 1.5 per cent of the transaction value for every online credit card payment from the UK to the EU, up from 0.3 per cent at the moment. For debit card payments, the fee will jump from 0.2 per cent to 1.15 per cent. The increase will benefit British banks and other card issuers, rather than Mastercard itself.


https://www.ft.com/content/39f553a0-00c ... pe=nongift



JJJ wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Something that is puzzling me. A few days ago, Nissan announced that it's Sunderland plant wouldn't close imminently - something which Brexiteers claimed as a Brexit Victory (odd since that assumes that the default position is for Brexit to cause the factory to close) and the CEO said that Brexit was a "positive" and gave Nissan a "competitive edge". Anyone here know what he's talking about? I'm genuinely curious.


Basically that they used to buy batteries for the Leaf electric car in the US.

In order to comply with rules of origin new regulations they have to bring battery manufacturing to the UK in house.

So basically they're forced to bring a process in house for a process they had to outsource before, in business speak that has to be spun a certain way.


GDB wrote:
Worth noting however that May's government bunged Nissan some £61M in taxpayers money in 2018, (from a PM who accused the Opposition of having a 'magic money tree').



Interesting so forced to do something that they otherwise had choice over. I sortof assumed that there must have been some big government subsidy involved to get such a statement out of the CEO. Didn't realise that they already got one under TM's reign though for Nissan £61M will be absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

In other automotive news, PSA (Peugeot-Citroën but also Opel and Vauxhall since that acquisition a few years ago) merged with FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles) last week. It's now called Stellantis and its brand portfolio now includes Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Citroen, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, Lancia, Maserati, Opel, Peugeot and Vauxhall.

As with all mergers, they'll now be looking to maximise their synergies and cut back on underperforming parts of the business. Will be interesting to see how much longer the Vauxhall factories stay open for. I read something a year or two back suggesting that it would be difficult to shut down the Luton factory because the Vauxhall Vivaro was made there and that this was one of the better performers of their product portfolio. Now that the Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Expert and Peugeot Boxer are now essentially in the same product portfolio and that there is plenty of overlap between them, you can be sure that something will be cut. And obviously this doesn't just apply to commercial vehicles, but to the entire range. I'm sure some EU factories will be closed too.
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:15 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
The HMRC estimates that Brexit demands that British companies complete 215m additional, often highly complex, documents a year. The cost of that alone on British businesses is thought to be around £7bn a year.


But the brexiteers told us that brexit was about reducing red-tape!

olle wrote:
What do A101 and the other brexiteers actually think about what happens now after 3 weeks?


Their silence is deafening. Though - lets be honest - not unexpected. Don't worry though - it's only 49 years, 11 months and five days until the full benefits of Brexit have kicked in (according to JRM) so I guess they'll be back to watch you and I eating Humble Pie soon enough. :D

olle wrote:
If Sovereign was so important why is Scotland and NI not allowed to take the same decision? Brexiteers "NEVER" to a sovereign Scotland or at least moving this to 2055 seems strange or even un strategic while it seems that 70% othe younger generation wants a "Sexit" from UK. So the Brexit government seems to play straight into the hands of SNP.


Indeed, the hypocrisy is blinding.

noviorbis77 wrote:


Have you considered that there might possibly be a reason why only The Express is reporting this? :scratchchin:
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:23 pm

The Express is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

They can't even be consistent, moaning that Macron is blocking further EU enlargement : https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/13 ... c.outbrain

As for the Frexit thing, the party did something like 0.5% at elections last year, Macron is very worried indeed ! The people mentioned in the article I know because I'm following UK politics and they're sometimes invited on right-wing radio/youtube channels, these people are total nobodies in France.
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:31 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:


President Macron was speaking in January 2018 when he made the claim


dang, editors at the Express seem to get pretty desperate.


Sure must be hard for the editors of the Express these days!
Brexit is done so there's no more rallying the troops to be done by them all while the UK is finding out as time passes by that it has indeed lost the battle with Brussels so there are no great gains or successes to report either, only losses and setbacks (so it's far better to remain quiet about it as they explicitly do, don't they?).

But they can't let go of their main selling topic, or they'd be out of business and so they go through their old catalogue again, looking around Europe who might be as silly as the UK have been to leave the EU too, calling up far right parties in France, Holland, Sweden or Austria and have them suggest their country should be next.
You could almost set your calendar to it: one week it's France, next week it's Germany, then it's Italy, followed by either Holland or any of the Scandinavian countries, after which the month is over and they just start all over again...
This article for instance uses a quote from Macron from 2018 as proof their main source (often some irrelevant fringe nationalistic party or in any case a poltical force nowhere near power thanks to Europe's proportional voting system), is indeed something to reckon with: I think it has been (mis)used (and in fact misquoted even) by the Express at least 22 times now since it first appreared... Do they even still gather any new facts on Europe, or just rehash worn-down stories from their eccho chamber?

Lets fact it: It's just not going to happen.
<insert here the famous cartoon with the 27 EU dominoes that were supposed to fall over after the British one fell... yet with the UK one fallilng to the wrong side of history... and so nothing happened>
That's brexit for you in a nutshell: the UK landing flat on its face, with the rest of Europe still standing firmly; it's really the UK which is at serious risk of disintegrating within this decade even!


Anyway, back to the daily success stories of Brexit...
Anyone who can actually post one already? :D
Last edited by sabenapilot on Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:35 pm

Aesma wrote:
The Express is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

They can't even be consistent, moaning that Macron is blocking further EU enlargement : https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/13 ... c.outbrain

As for the Frexit thing, the party did something like 0.5% at elections last year, Macron is very worried indeed ! The people mentioned in the article I know because I'm following UK politics and they're sometimes invited on right-wing radio/youtube channels, these people are total nobodies in France.


Considering that 72% of the French would vote for EU membership and only 17% against....

Also the French population voting for EU is increasing over time.
 
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:45 pm

The only thing Brexit achieved, is that even the fringe parties on the left and right do no longer demand leaving the EU - at least here in Germany.
 
GDB
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:47 pm

The Express is a declining tabloid for the stupid, even by Brexit standards, once anti Vaxx, then 'Princess Di was murdered, as well as a evil campaign with no evidence to finger the parents of a missing child in Portugal, literally years of front pages of this.
The British tabloid press and talk radio media is the biggest, lying load of shit in Europe.
And we haven't yet got around to the phone hacking scandal of a decade ago, of course they got away with it, Tory supporting rags, indeed one of the principal actors behind it was David Cameron's Press Man, until he had to go. To Prison.

It is no accident that the worst governments of recent years are in nations with a strong Murdoch presence (sadly he got his Covid jab, me I would have filled it with poison - no joke), while FOX of course spread disinformation about it.
The Express wasn't Murdoch, it was owned by a porn baron however.
The once Tory but respectable Telegraph is owned by tax dodgers and has gone swivel eyed.
The two worst presenters on a Murdoch owned Talk radio channel are fat old Gammons, easily triggered by anything beyond their ultra Brexit, with their own often overtly racist views.

This is the core of why Murdoch has always hated the EU, since most countries there were sensible enough not to allow him to operate his media sewers.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:29 pm

zkojq wrote:
Something that is puzzling me. A few days ago, Nissan announced that it's Sunderland plant wouldn't close imminently - something which Brexiteers claimed as a Brexit Victory (odd since that assumes that the default position is for Brexit to cause the factory to close) and the CEO said that Brexit was a "positive" and gave Nissan a "competitive edge". Anyone here know what he's talking about? I'm genuinely curious.


Yes, the way that was reported was very odd. I thought it might be the media distorting it, but then I saw the actual video message which brought it across in the same kind of way.

The way I think it should be interpreted it is that Brexit has given Nissan a competitive edge *VERSUS OTHER BRITISH CAR MANUFACTURERS* since the future is all-electric and they have bought a company manufacturing batteries based next door to their Sunderland plant. Brexit makes importing batteries then selling cars with those batteries built in much more expensive *FOR THE OTHER BRITISH CAR MANUFACTURERS*, while Nissan cars will have all major components following the same rule of origin.

So it's not "Brexit is good for car manufacturing" it's "Brexit is more crap for every other UK car manufacturer than for Nissan". And also "Brexit makes it easier for us to sell cars in the UK than for manufacturers from the rest of Europe to sell in the UK".

I really don't see how it makes Nissan better off globally than say Peugeot/Citroen or Volkswagen/Audi though. That's just not the case.

(And of course Renault can happily go for the EU market while partner Nissan takes the UK market.)
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bennett123
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:36 pm

Sounds as if Nissan UK will clean up the UK market.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:47 pm

zkojq wrote:
I guess this is fairly bad news for people who think that their mobile company won't do the same for International Roaming charges:

Mastercard to increase fees for UK purchases from EU
Departure from single market spells end for Brussels-mandated cap on transaction levies


Time to find out what rules are going to apply on bringing cash out of the UK / into the EU when travelling. Good job we still have our French account (let's hope that doesn't fall foul of some new Brexit fallout as well!).

At least the laptop battery arrived today, so that's one small worry gone...
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ltbewr
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:53 pm

I wonder how the insurance and reinsurance business will be affected by Brexit ? It is huge business in the UK, in particular in London and Bermuda.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:03 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
Sure must be hard for the editors of the Express these days!
Brexit is done so there's no more rallying the troops to be done by them all while the UK is finding out as time passes by that it has indeed lost the battle with Brussels so there are no great gains or successes to report either, only losses and setbacks (so it's far better to remain quiet about it as they explicitly do, don't they?).


I just about feel sorry for them. 40 years of blaming everyone's problems on either the EU, Single Mothers or Immigrants and now their biggest scapegoat is essentially out of the picture. And it's not like they can blame the border chaos on Megan Markle, Black Lives Matter or Greenpeace.

GDB wrote:
The two worst presenters on a Murdoch owned Talk radio channel are fat old Gammons, easily triggered by anything beyond their ultra Brexit, with their own often overtly racist views.


Which one is that?

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
The way I think it should be interpreted it is that Brexit has given Nissan a competitive edge *VERSUS OTHER BRITISH CAR MANUFACTURERS* since the future is all-electric and they have bought a company manufacturing batteries based next door to their Sunderland plant. Brexit makes importing batteries then selling cars with those batteries built in much more expensive *FOR THE OTHER BRITISH CAR MANUFACTURERS*, while Nissan cars will have all major components following the same rule of origin.


Ok that makes a lot more sense. Like you say, not a Brexit Benefit but I can see how it might advantage them compared to other UK manufacturers.


ltbewr wrote:
I wonder how the insurance and reinsurance business will be affected by Brexit ? It is huge business in the UK, in particular in London and Bermuda.


Could Lloyd's of London relocate to Paris? Pierre's of Paris has a nice ring to it if they're going to use a relocation as an opportunity for a rebrand. :D
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LJ
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:42 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:


I read these stories on a weekly basis (inlcuding those where the end of the EU is predicted) ever since I start reading the Express more than a year ago.
 
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:39 pm

The two on Talk Radio, Mike Graham and Nick Ferrari.

They've had worse, such as overt racist Katie Hopkins who called migrants 'cockroaches', of course Farage was a fixture there for years.
 
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:53 am

Today DE talks about Swexit;

(79% of Swedes would vote for EU membership and only 14% against)

-------------------------

EU on brink as Swexit calls mount: 'UK did all heavy lifting for non-euro states'
EU leaders were warned of a major backlash from Sweden after Stockholm admitted the UK "did all the heavy lifting for non-euro states", sparking calls for Swexit.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/13 ... ussels-spt
 
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:47 am

Meanwhile, the EU is turning the screws on London-based financiers who haven't moved their European operations inside the EU yet, often with the excuse of the extraordinary circumstances relating to the COVID-19 pandemic, in particular relating to stay-at-home orders and travel restrictions currently in effect.

This excuse by the world’s largest interdealer broker, TP ICAP Plc. was prompted by a notice from France’s Autorité des Marchés Financiers Friday warning that firms face criminal sanctions if they don’t follow rules requiring an authorized branch or subsidiary within the EU and sufficient personnel to ensure prudent risk management there. Europe’s top markets regulator warned firms against trying to finesse the situation, such as using online pop-up “I agree” boxes to circumvent rules that require investment services with European clients to be conducted from within the EU.

As a consequence, the London-based firm said on Monday evening it was no longer able to service its EU clients because it hadn’t managed to complete its planned relocation of staff to Paris yet due to the Covid pandemic.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe

The developments underscore the hard line taken by European regulators keen to compete for the crown jewel of the British economy, which was excluded from the Brexit trade negotiations. Brussels is determined to show the cost to leaving the world’s largest trading bloc and prise business away from the City of London. The U.K. relies on the industry for about a tenth of all of its tax receipts. London lost 6.3 billion euros in daily stock trades to EU venues on Jan 4, while consultancy EY estimates that financial-services firms operating in the U.K. shifted more than 1.2 trillion pounds of assets to the European Union ahead of Brexit.

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