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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:49 pm

gkirk wrote:
The EU have severely cocked this one up. And I'm usually a supporter of the EU.


Agreed. A bad miscalculation by the EU.

olle wrote:
Interesting that suddenly Brexiteers are concerned about GFA?


Not the brexiteers, but predominantly, the Irish. Even other EU ministers were apparently aghast at the potential consequences of this course of action (as reported on BBC late evening news).
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:53 pm

OA260 wrote:


Good to see. I genuinely hope this is the deescalation of recent events when it comes to vaccine supply and this will not lead to other countries suffering because of a dispute between the EU and AstraZeneca over vaccine supply contracts. Like I said earlier, nations and blocs should be working together in the fight against the common enemy that is COVID-19, not against each other.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:34 am

Someone in the EU screwed up, there was a reaction, then the EU leaders corrected the situation. All in a few hours. What's the problem exactly ?

Look at BoJo, almost every week having to do a complete u-turn on this or that policy he was defending a few days before, for comparison.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:22 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
OA260 wrote:


Good to see. I genuinely hope this is the deescalation of recent events when it comes to vaccine supply and this will not lead to other countries suffering because of a dispute between the EU and AstraZeneca over vaccine supply contracts.


Those other countries where exempt from the restrictions right from the start, link is somewhere above. All countries would still get the exact same amount of vaccines, only the UK got some a bit early followed by a dry spell to make up for those early deliveries.
The question rather is if Biontech/others shipments into the UK get stopped to make up for AZs Undersupply. And I think that rather depends on what shipments went out after AZ knew they would fall short due to production issues, and how quickly they can make up for it. But even if those get stopped too, everyone would still get the same amount delivered with just scheduling shifts.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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SQ22
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:52 am

The ongoing discussion about vaccination and especially the AstraZeneca discussion in the Brexit Thread has been moved into a separate thread.

A discussion if the European Commission has messed their vaccination strategy compared to other countries does not belong into the Brexit thread. The recent events with respect to Northern Ireland have not been moved into the new thread.

So far the understanding is the AstraZeneca is a contractual issue and only if we learn that AstraZeneca was indeed preferring the UK because of Brexit should be discussed there.

Link to thread:

European Vaccination Strategy News and Discussion Thread

Recently there have been more than a few posts which can only be considered as bashing or fanboy posts. I kindly ask you, if you are seriously interested in a discussion not to make such posts, not to reply to such posts and to use the reporting function in case you think they are violating forum rules. In case you have reported a post, the report has been closed and you are wondering why, you are free to write a mail to [email protected] and make a query.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:08 am

We now have a situation that shows how complicated the divorce of UK EU is. UK threaten to walk out of WA days before Christmas, and now the EU admin error putting the ban of exports of vaccines to whole UK including NI.

Even if fast corrected it shows how weak GFA is, and how complicated NI will be for EU and UK until NI joins ROI.

No one even the worse project fear visions could describe how fast the relations EU UK falling apart. Covid makes this faster in combination with UK now being third party.

The ties UK EU in trade being untied fast with decreasing exports EU to UK and considering more and more trucks returning empty to EU even faster decrease of exports UK EU.

I see that negotiations about services and financial services will follow the same path. I see that in 3-5 years financial services in UK serving EU customers will have decreased dramatically.

I thought brexit was going to decrease the business and relations EU UK but not in the manner and speed we see now.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:27 am

Aesma wrote:
Someone in the EU screwed up, there was a reaction, then the EU leaders corrected the situation. All in a few hours. What's the problem exactly ?

Look at BoJo, almost every week having to do a complete u-turn on this or that policy he was defending a few days before, for comparison.


I dont think you realise how sensitive the situation in Ireland is. Ursula should resign as she had the final say. Any other head of government would of had too.
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:40 am

olle wrote:

Even if fast corrected it shows how weak GFA is, and how complicated NI will be for EU and UK until NI joins ROI.


Actually it shows the opposite it shows how strong it is and all sides on the Island of Ireland have made it fully clear last night DONT MESS WITH IT !

Anybody that doesn't see that should refrain from commenting as its shows a lack of knowledge on the matter . Listen to people that are actually on the ground. It will be a long long time before ROI-NI become a united Ireland. The status quo will remain .
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:10 am

Arion640 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Someone in the EU screwed up, there was a reaction, then the EU leaders corrected the situation. All in a few hours. What's the problem exactly ?

Look at BoJo, almost every week having to do a complete u-turn on this or that policy he was defending a few days before, for comparison.


I dont think you realise how sensitive the situation in Ireland is. Ursula should resign as she had the final say. Any other head of government would of had too.


Brexit caused this mess, especially doing a Brexit in the middle of an international crisis. If you feel like that, shouldn't Boris Johnson have resigned when he introduced the internal marked bill?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:19 am

OA260 wrote:
olle wrote:

Even if fast corrected it shows how weak GFA is, and how complicated NI will be for EU and UK until NI joins ROI.


Actually it shows the opposite it shows how strong it is and all sides on the Island of Ireland have made it fully clear last night DONT MESS WITH IT !

Anybody that doesn't see that should refrain from commenting as its shows a lack of knowledge on the matter . Listen to people that are actually on the ground. It will be a long long time before ROI-NI become a united Ireland. The status quo will remain .


:checkmark: don't mess with the Irish island. The time scale for the uniting of the Irish island is anyone's guess.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:29 am

OA260 wrote:
olle wrote:

Even if fast corrected it shows how weak GFA is, and how complicated NI will be for EU and UK until NI joins ROI.


Actually it shows the opposite it shows how strong it is and all sides on the Island of Ireland have made it fully clear last night DONT MESS WITH IT !

Anybody that doesn't see that should refrain from commenting as its shows a lack of knowledge on the matter . Listen to people that are actually on the ground. It will be a long long time before ROI-NI become a united Ireland. The status quo will remain .


Not going to lie, I totally 100% agree with you.

Further to any potential troubles, there are some people in the republic who think they can’t afford to take on Northern Ireland although i think they probably could.
Last edited by Arion640 on Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:31 am

Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Someone in the EU screwed up, there was a reaction, then the EU leaders corrected the situation. All in a few hours. What's the problem exactly ?

Look at BoJo, almost every week having to do a complete u-turn on this or that policy he was defending a few days before, for comparison.


I dont think you realise how sensitive the situation in Ireland is. Ursula should resign as she had the final say. Any other head of government would of had too.


Brexit caused this mess, especially doing a Brexit in the middle of an international crisis. If you feel like that, shouldn't Boris Johnson have resigned when he introduced the internal marked bill?


Indirectly yes. But you could argue the EU caused brexit.

Last night though was a complete mistake by EU commissioners, you can see that though can’t you dutchy?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:41 am

Arion640 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

I dont think you realise how sensitive the situation in Ireland is. Ursula should resign as she had the final say. Any other head of government would of had too.


Brexit caused this mess, especially doing a Brexit in the middle of an international crisis. If you feel like that, shouldn't Boris Johnson have resigned when he introduced the internal marked bill?


Indirectly yes. But you could argue the EU caused brexit.

Last night though was a complete mistake by EU commissioners, you can see that though can’t you dutchy?


It is a direct consequence of Brexit, no Brexit and we wouldn't have this.
You cannot argue that the EU caused Brexit, that is ridiculous. The pro-Brexit campaigns were all lies, together with unlawful but very effective campaigning techniques, after 40 years of lies in the media, very much including the current prime minister.

And yes, last night was a mistake by the EU and has been corrected, so let's move on.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:43 am

In a day or 2 when emotions will have competely settled down again, reality will return and the dire consequences of Brexit will take the opper hand again in the British press.
Global newsfeeds which do not care about stirred up emotions never let off: this is from today, by Bloomberg:

With freight traffic well below usual levels, thanks in part to stockpiling and the Covid pandemic, the overall Brexit effects were less visibly dramatic than expected at first. The government thus avoided the embarrassment of several thousand trucks queuing in Kent and was able to claim victory for its planning. Businesses tell a different story however, one of bureaucracy and delays that add up to higher costs. Elsewhere, hidden under the impact of virus lockdowns, Brexit seeped into all parts of the economy, affecting everyone from online shoppers to fishermen, car dealers, bankers and farmers.

“The government likes to refer to the problems as teething problems,” said Sam Lowe, senior fellow at the Centre for European Reform in London. “But while businesses will learn how to fill in forms, we should acknowledge that new bureaucracy is the new reality and there’s a lot more to come.”

But the altered landscape also poses a question of survival, particularly for businesses that relied on hassle-free, low-cost movement of products on and off the continent.
Even fishing, which became a symbol of Britain’s battle to “take back control” and a sticking point in negotiations, has been an early victim, despite pro-Brexit lawmaker Jacob Rees-Mogg’s insistence that the fish now in British waters are “happier.” The trade deal regained rights to far less of Britain’s waters than had been hoped for. Some fishermen will end up with smaller quotas for the fish popular at home, such as the chip-shop staples cod and haddock.

“Proximity matters,” said former U.K. trade negotiator David Henig. “Seamless trade is a thing of the past.”


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:44 am

Arion640 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

I dont think you realise how sensitive the situation in Ireland is. Ursula should resign as she had the final say. Any other head of government would of had too.


Brexit caused this mess, especially doing a Brexit in the middle of an international crisis. If you feel like that, shouldn't Boris Johnson have resigned when he introduced the internal marked bill?


Indirectly yes. But you could argue the EU caused brexit.

Last night though was a complete mistake by EU commissioners, you can see that though can’t you dutchy?


They admitted mistake, they delayed regulation and make it right.

Now they probably let the experts and lawyers go thru it in calm.

In practice the producers need to inform authorizes when exporting outside EU giving the same effect.

I will be surprised if any exports of vaccine from EU to UK for a while except very small quantities.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:46 am

scbriml wrote:
gkirk wrote:
The EU have severely cocked this one up. And I'm usually a supporter of the EU.


Agreed. A bad miscalculation by the EU.

olle wrote:
Interesting that suddenly Brexiteers are concerned about GFA?


Not the brexiteers, but predominantly, the Irish. Even other EU ministers were apparently aghast at the potential consequences of this course of action (as reported on BBC late evening news).


But as recognized Dublin was one phone call away to be able to make EU consider their interest.

Has UK and London done the same with NI?
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:51 am

Arion640 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

I dont think you realise how sensitive the situation in Ireland is. Ursula should resign as she had the final say. Any other head of government would of had too.


Brexit caused this mess, especially doing a Brexit in the middle of an international crisis. If you feel like that, shouldn't Boris Johnson have resigned when he introduced the internal marked bill?


Indirectly yes. But you could argue the EU caused brexit.

Last night though was a complete mistake by EU commissioners, you can see that though can’t you dutchy?


Even the commission it self says so. They admit error and correct it.

This crisis develops so fast so it let us respect that things go wrong. By the way in this kind of developments yo normally have ambassadors and diplomatic services working.

What happened with the EU ambassador in UK? Do UK have an ambassador in EU yet?
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:56 am

sabenapilot wrote:
In a day or 2 when emotions will have competely settled down again, reality will return and the dire consequences of Brexit will take the opper hand again in the British press.
Global newsfeeds which do not care about stirred up emotions never let off: this is from today, by Bloomberg:

With freight traffic well below usual levels, thanks in part to stockpiling and the Covid pandemic, the overall Brexit effects were less visibly dramatic than expected at first. The government thus avoided the embarrassment of several thousand trucks queuing in Kent and was able to claim victory for its planning. Businesses tell a different story however, one of bureaucracy and delays that add up to higher costs. Elsewhere, hidden under the impact of virus lockdowns, Brexit seeped into all parts of the economy, affecting everyone from online shoppers to fishermen, car dealers, bankers and farmers.

“The government likes to refer to the problems as teething problems,” said Sam Lowe, senior fellow at the Centre for European Reform in London. “But while businesses will learn how to fill in forms, we should acknowledge that new bureaucracy is the new reality and there’s a lot more to come.”

But the altered landscape also poses a question of survival, particularly for businesses that relied on hassle-free, low-cost movement of products on and off the continent.
Even fishing, which became a symbol of Britain’s battle to “take back control” and a sticking point in negotiations, has been an early victim, despite pro-Brexit lawmaker Jacob Rees-Mogg’s insistence that the fish now in British waters are “happier.” The trade deal regained rights to far less of Britain’s waters than had been hoped for. Some fishermen will end up with smaller quotas for the fish popular at home, such as the chip-shop staples cod and haddock.

“Proximity matters,” said former U.K. trade negotiator David Henig. “Seamless trade is a thing of the past.”


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe


It seems that 2/3 of the trucks returns empty from UK to EU. What will this mean for the UK GDP figures?
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:59 am

olle wrote:
scbriml wrote:
gkirk wrote:
The EU have severely cocked this one up. And I'm usually a supporter of the EU.


Agreed. A bad miscalculation by the EU.

olle wrote:
Interesting that suddenly Brexiteers are concerned about GFA?


Not the brexiteers, but predominantly, the Irish. Even other EU ministers were apparently aghast at the potential consequences of this course of action (as reported on BBC late evening news).


But as recognized Dublin was one phone call away to be able to make EU consider their interest.

Has UK and London done the same with NI?


Did you not see my posting of the Tweet above from UVDL and Boris ! He was one phone call away too.


Image


https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/ ... 21928?s=21



She is certainly getting a bashing from this Scottish guy

https://twitter.com/socialm85897394/sta ... 91136?s=21
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:55 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Businesses tell a different story however, one of bureaucracy and delays that add up to higher costs.

:checkmark:

This. We have an ongoing cybersecurity/critical infrastructure project in the UK. Between the shipment in mid December and the one in January paperwork and shipping cost have exploded off the charts. Our shipping department, well used to dealing with customs of "why simple if it can be a lot harder" and "we need this one extra document right the hell now" India, Mexico or Vietnam is peeved. Shipping wise the UK is now 10.000km away from Germany. Add to that: finding a forwarder willing to take the shipment in a timely manner has become somewhat challenging in itself.

Best regards
Thomas
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:03 pm

olle wrote:
It seems that 2/3 of the trucks returns empty from UK to EU. What will this mean for the UK GDP figures?


Well, those trucks are returning empty because it's cheaper than having them wait in the EU for days as they clear customs with the goods picked up there.
Those goods they now took with them on their return journey are shipped with other trucks willing to suck up the export delays..
Or alternatively, they are no longer shipped to the EU at all, as is increasingly evidenced by the avalange of outcries from small and medium sized British businesses who speak out about their inabillity to continue to trade with the rest of the continent/ROI. Even former PM Cameron's wife went live on radio to talk about the problems her business experences and she didn't sound very optimistic about the promisses by the government to fix it. Rightfully so: these are no problems with the new relationship, this IS the new relationship: it's the core feature of it, by design.

It's too early to have a clear view on the economic impact of these trade ties being broken up yet and in any case the figures vs last year are going to be distored, but they won't be nice to look at for sure. The frictionless trade with the EU once promissed has clearly been lost forever and the UK hasn't been able to offset even the smallest portion of that with a British FTA with any other global partner (the US was once expected to simply fill that void completely and more so even until the figures got known -an expected 0.0x% growth gain- as well as the cost -chlorinated chicken- was understood).

By several calculations, mid-March is about the day at which Brexit will start to cost the UK's taxpayers more than they save on budget contributions to the EU, each year.
Some 2.5 months of nationalistic flagwaving followed by almost 10 months of shutting up about and paying up for Brexit seems to be the story line of 2021 and every year there after.
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:11 pm

'It was almost Trumpian': Criticism of EU despite U-turn on NI vaccine controls

Criticism of the European Union is mounting after its short-lived move to override part of the Brexit deal on Northern Ireland over export controls on Covid-19 vaccines.

UK prime minister Boris Johnson was urged by the North’s first minister Arlene Foster on Saturday to replace the Northern Ireland Protocol, after Brussels invoked a clause to prevent shipments of jabs entering the UK in an “incredible act of hostility”.

www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eu-under-gr ... 72969.html


It seems this has opened a can of worms.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:19 pm

French President Emmanuel Macron had an interview with the foreign press outlets in France and made a few comments about new relationship with the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ays-macron

President Macron has warned that Boris Johnson’s government has to decide who its allies are, insisting that “half-friends is not a concept”.
"The UK cannot be the best ally of the US, the best ally of the EU and a new Singapore at the same time"

Asked about the cross-Channel blame game over not just vaccines, but Brexit and coronavirus controls, in which he is often personally named, President Macron laughed off the personal attacks: “Whenever there’s a problem with the EU, the British just love to detest the French – and me – and say we are responsible."
On a more serious note, he added: “I like your country a lot, but as I have already said, I think Brexit is an error. I respect the sovereignty of the people and the people voted, so it had to be done, but I think that vote was based on a lot of lies and now we see it has made things much more difficult in many ways.”
Macron said Europe will not block or ban exports of coronavirus vaccines but that they should be “controlled”, accusing AstraZeneca it did not want to fulfil (..) its contract with the EU.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:25 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
French President Emmanuel Macron had an interview with the foreign press outlets in France and made a few comments about new relationship with the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ays-macron

President Macron has warned that Boris Johnson’s government has to decide who its allies are, insisting that “half-friends is not a concept”.
"The UK cannot be the best ally of the US, the best ally of the EU and a new Singapore at the same time"

Asked about the cross-Channel blame game over not just vaccines, but Brexit and coronavirus controls, in which he is often personally named, President Macron laughed off the personal attacks: “Whenever there’s a problem with the EU, the British just love to detest the French – and me – and say we are responsible."
On a more serious note, he added: “I like your country a lot, but as I have already said, I think Brexit is an error. I respect the sovereignty of the people and the people voted, so it had to be done, but I think that vote was based on a lot of lies and now we see it has made things much more difficult in many ways.”
Macron said Europe will not block or ban exports of coronavirus vaccines but that they should be “controlled”, accusing AstraZeneca it did not want to fulfil (..) its contract with the EU.


Unfortunately for macroon we can do what we want. That’s like saying Australia can’t be friends with the US, Singapore and New Zealand all at once.

I’m all for friendship and co-operation with our EU counterparts, I sometimes think Kier Starmer would be better suited as Prime Minister than Boris Johnson, if he can heal things.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:36 pm

OA260 wrote:
'It seems this has opened a can of worms.


Oh, I'm sure the press on the British isles is very eager to hand out ample can openers to all those who like to be fed more emotional nonsense and further analysis till the absurd even. What else would they do over the weekend? Surely not write about the macro-economic successes of Brexit so far, because then it would be empty pages throughout. ;)

As has been said:
there was a first technical concept proposed on friday to make the export controls on vaccines from the EU water tight,
this initial concept was improved further within a couple of hours of it being first suggested, after consultation with the ROI.
The final mechanism will come into effect this weekend, without anybody having an issue with it, at not least in the EU.
The UK for sure won't like it, but that's the consequence of being a third country now.
The EU takes care of its own interests and those of all of its memberstates, including the ROI as has been demonstrated once more: It changed its approach in less than 3 hours to accomodate special needs of a memberstate; the UK hasn't managed to make the EU shift an inch nor considerany of its specific needs during more than 3 years of Brexit negotiations.
When you're not at the table in Brussels, you're effectively just on the menu.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:41 pm

Aesma wrote:
Someone in the EU screwed up, there was a reaction, then the EU leaders corrected the situation. All in a few hours. What's the problem exactly ?


The problem as I see it is Article 16 was triggered as a reaction to the issue of vaccine supply due to the dispute with AstraZeneca. IMO that article should only be triggered as a last resort if all other means to resolve the issue have failed, which in this case hadn’t yet been exhausted. It’s also worrying that they were prepared to jump to trigger it so quickly without prior consultation. It’s amazing that the Commission succeeded in uniting all political parties of Northern Ireland together, albeit against their own decisions.

The subsequent U turn on this and those in Brussels coming to their senses so quickly should be welcomed. The EU does deserve criticism nonetheless as this shouldn’t have got to that stage this quickly. Simon Coveney was right when he took to Twitter last night stating there’s lessons to learn from all this...

https://twitter.com/simoncoveney/status ... 02020?s=21

Anyway, we move on and I will repeat my message from last night by saying that everybody should be co-operating and working together against COVID-19, not fighting each other.
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:47 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
OA260 wrote:
'It seems this has opened a can of worms.


Oh, I'm sure the press on the British isles is very eager to hand out ample can openers to all those who like to be fed more emotional nonsense and further analysis till the absurd even. What else would they do over the weekend? Surely not write about the macro-economic successes of Brexit so far, because then it would be empty pages throughout. ;)

.


Oh I thought it was the Irish press I was quoting. Silly me ;)
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:03 pm

OA260 wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
OA260 wrote:
'It seems this has opened a can of worms.


Oh, I'm sure the press on the British isles is very eager to hand out ample can openers to all those who like to be fed more emotional nonsense and further analysis till the absurd even. What else would they do over the weekend? Surely not write about the macro-economic successes of Brexit so far, because then it would be empty pages throughout. ;)

.


Oh I thought it was the Irish press I was quoting. Silly me ;)


So have the Irish press calmed down now that there now is a solution in place taking both ROI and NI?

It seems like it;

------------------

Minister Coveney, also posting on Twitter, commented: "Welcome news, but lessons should be learned; the Protocol is not something to be tampered with lightly, it's an essential, hard won compromise, protecting peace & trade for many."

The commission statement said: "To tackle the current lack of transparency of vaccine exports outside the EU, the Commission is putting in place a measure requiring that such exports are subject to an authorisation by Member States.

"In the process of finalisation of this measure, the Commission will ensure that the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol is unaffected. The Commission is not triggering the safeguard clause.

"Should transits of vaccines and active substances toward third countries be abused to circumvent the effects of the authorisation system, the EU will consider using all the instruments at its disposal.

"In the process of finalising the document, the Commission will also be fine-tuning the decision-making process under the implementing regulation.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0 ... ne-brexit/
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:04 pm

I think that this means that there will be a harder border in the Irish sea then UK government original expected?
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:12 pm

olle wrote:
I think that this means that there will be a harder border in the Irish sea then UK government original expected?


Maybe they will trigger article 16 seeing as the EU just set the bar so low .
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:30 pm

olle wrote:
I think that this means that there will be a harder border in the Irish sea then UK government original expected?


Well, since the ROI is not producing vaccines, all Irish jabs needs to be sent over from the EU by registered shipments.
If the EU sees there's vaccine smuggling happening to NI -and much more worrying- further down to the rest of GB, it will clealy not hesitate to use the powers it has unter the NI protocol. Remember there's a EU custom agency set up in Belfast which oversees all trade flows from NI to GB and vv.
The British government has gone to great lengths to make this as low profile as possible, even renting the office space for the EU custom agency itself so they could remain largely unnoticed after M. Gove had repeatedly stated there would never ever be an EU custom office in the UK... (that didn't age well now, did it?)
Nevertheless the EU does hold swiping powers to hold full blown intra-british custom checks down the Irish sea , so the soft touch, low key approach initially envisaged can be unilaterally tuned up should the EU suspect its rules on vaccine export are being undercut via an open back door in Northern Ireland, as referenced also to by the President of the Commission in her remarks and clearly evidenced by the unhesitating outright superpower display in the vaccine discussion with AZ and the UK of this week.
It's the same old story all over again: if there's no visible border across the island itself, there's bound to be one down the Irish Sea (should the need arise)
That was clear yesterday evening already, which is why the solution found so quickly is -not surprisingly- very satisfactory to the ROI, but less so to the UK.
And so NI is as from this weekend, yet a little bit more cut of from the UK. It's getting an even mor unique status by the day: it's almost a condominion these days, it seems.
Last edited by sabenapilot on Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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OA260
Posts: 26340
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:38 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:

Anyway, we move on and I will repeat my message from last night by saying that everybody should be co-operating and working together against COVID-19, not fighting each other.


Indeed having family members inside the EU and outside of it I certainly agree that its within everyones interests that Europe as a whole which includes the UK and other Non EU members should be working hard to vaccinate the whole region. No point restricting vaccines to the UK because you could be actually hurting your own EU citizens who are residing there especially in Ireland / NI . Its a very slippery slope once you go down that avenue. Over 220,000 EU citizens now vaccinated in NI which should be celebrated.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:39 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Someone in the EU screwed up, there was a reaction, then the EU leaders corrected the situation. All in a few hours. What's the problem exactly ?

Look at BoJo, almost every week having to do a complete u-turn on this or that policy he was defending a few days before, for comparison.


I dont think you realise how sensitive the situation in Ireland is. Ursula should resign as she had the final say. Any other head of government would of had too.


I don't believe it's that sensitive. Nothing happened on the ground.

No EU leader will resign over something like this, you're completely delusional if you really think that. Leaders of EU countries (and most other countries on the planet, too) should have resigned 10 times over in the last year in regards to their handling of the pandemic if that was the case.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:44 pm

If the Eu should have resignations every time english speaking press throw a tantrum, all 450 millions should take turns for theses jobs :)
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:44 pm

Aesma wrote:
I don't believe it's that sensitive. Nothing happened on the ground.

.


It certainly was that sensitive hence the uproar in Dublin ,Belfast and London and the quick move to do damage limitation by the EU . They wont be so quick to do it again I can tell you that. Fingers were burned last night and it may be a good thing. I personally dont think UVDL should resign I actually dont mind her in many aspects of her conduct but obviously some of her fellow German citizens think otherwise.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:48 pm

sabenapilot wrote:
President Macron has warned that Boris Johnson’s government has to decide who its allies are, insisting that “half-friends is not a concept”.
"The UK cannot be the best ally of the US, the best ally of the EU and a new Singapore at the same time"


I don't see why any of those things have to be mutually exclusive.
 
94717
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:50 pm

scbriml wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
President Macron has warned that Boris Johnson’s government has to decide who its allies are, insisting that “half-friends is not a concept”.
"The UK cannot be the best ally of the US, the best ally of the EU and a new Singapore at the same time"


I don't see why any of those things have to be mutually exclusive.


For officials to use this kind of language it is like sending some one to h**l ;-)

It show what level EU see the relations with UK and how bad the relations falls apart.

These kind of crisis used to start wars in Europe or even for less.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3782
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:50 pm

OA260 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:

Anyway, we move on and I will repeat my message from last night by saying that everybody should be co-operating and working together against COVID-19, not fighting each other.


Indeed having family members inside the EU and outside of it I certainly agree that its within everyones interests that Europe as a whole which includes the UK and other Non EU members should be working hard to vaccinate the whole region. No point restricting vaccines to the UK because you could be actually hurting your own EU citizens who are residing there especially in Ireland / NI . Its a very slippery slope once you go down that avenue. Over 220,000 EU citizens now vaccinated in NI which should be celebrated.


I agree with you!
But as said, it increasingly looks like the British government may have had the brilliant idea to sneak some 'Britain first' into their own contract with A-Z for what is widely refered to in the UK as "the Oxford vaccine" and obviously put this explosive clause under a very strict non-disclosure agreement.
Which is why A-Z could subsequently not oppose to a seemingly very neutral contract with the EU on the selection of their UK sites too as part of the effort and crossed its fingers output would be high enough to avoid the conflict of interests it has just signed up to.
Of course, unless the UK government releases its contract with A-Z we'll never know for sure, but why on earth would a multinational otherwise deliberately sign up to and subsequently breach a contractual obligation with a key buyer of theirs who has released its contract (with A-Z's approval), showing it has indeed a valid claim on the production coming from UK plants too?

Its a bit hypocrite of the British government to be an absolute vaccine nationalist when it comes to the doses producted in the UK, whle at the same time be pretending to be very multilateral when it comes to all the doses coming from the EU, be it the rest of the AZ order, or the Pfizer doses, or the J-J batch or the GSK shipments...
All of which come from the EU's pharmaceutical hub called Belgium.
Was it yet another one of these "we can have our cake and eat it at the same time" moments, all over again?
There seem to be quite some illusions that just dont seem to want to die on Brexiteers, do they?
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:53 pm

Olddog wrote:
If the Eu should have resignations every time english speaking press throw a tantrum, all 450 millions should take turns for theses jobs :)


Just brilliant!
And then they can complain about all the eurocrats, whereas the total EU administration is actually leaner than most meaningful departments of Whitehall.
If you then compare their efficiency and their results in output...
Oh, boy!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:01 pm

The NI Protocol wasn't in any danger. Article 16 is precisely made to protect it ! It allows to suspend/discuss one specific part of it without rescinding it as a whole.

OA260 wrote:
'It was almost Trumpian': Criticism of EU despite U-turn on NI vaccine controls

Criticism of the European Union is mounting after its short-lived move to override part of the Brexit deal on Northern Ireland over export controls on Covid-19 vaccines.

UK prime minister Boris Johnson was urged by the North’s first minister Arlene Foster on Saturday to replace the Northern Ireland Protocol, after Brussels invoked a clause to prevent shipments of jabs entering the UK in an “incredible act of hostility”.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eu-u ... 72969.html

It seems this has opened a can of worms.


Was Arlene Foster in favor of the NI protocol ? Never. Always dead against.

Was Arlene Foster in favor of the GFA ? Never. Always dead against.

So nothing has changed. What matters is that BoJo has a majority without the DUP, so the DUP is powerless.

To be honest I don't understand how the DUP can even be a legal party when they seem to be all for starting a civil war...

Arion640 wrote:
Unfortunately for macroon we can do what we want. That’s like saying Australia can’t be friends with the US, Singapore and New Zealand all at once.

I’m all for friendship and co-operation with our EU counterparts, I sometimes think Kier Starmer would be better suited as Prime Minister than Boris Johnson, if he can heal things.


He didn't say you couldn't be friends with Singapore. He said you couldn't become Singapore. Meaning if you slash taxes, regulations, workers' rights, environment rules, etc., you will be in conflict with the EU.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3782
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:03 pm

scbriml wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
President Macron has warned that Boris Johnson’s government has to decide who its allies are, insisting that “half-friends is not a concept”.
"The UK cannot be the best ally of the US, the best ally of the EU and a new Singapore at the same time"


I don't see why any of those things have to be mutually exclusive.



Because if the UK wants to become a Singapore on the Thames, it won't be the EU's friend at all.
This whole vaccine row is nothing but a storm in a teacup for what would happen in such a case as clearly the EU is not hesitating to make its power be feld, going by this all in all still fairly limited demonstration.

As to the US: it may have slipped from the attention in the UK because of other news of course, but the EU -although pleased by the arrival of a new and much more predictable US president- has been woken up to the fact it can not just blindly rely on the US any longer in future like it always did in the past. Over the past 4 years, the EU has become much more assertive on the international scene and it's not just going to go back to where it used to be, only to be fooled again by another clown sitting in the WhitteHouse in x years from now.
The EU has been very assertively protecting its own global interests, notably with the signing of a first ever trade and investment deal with the PRC, something the US really didn't like happening and had excercised maximum pressure for not to sign it...
The UK will in future increasingly find itself caught between 2 economic Atlantic superpowers and going by his comments, the French president is not going to let the UK bet on the 2 horses for very long in this race.
Last edited by sabenapilot on Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:19 pm

Now that I think of it, didn't the UK press think Juncker was horrible and should resign at every turn, yet he lasted his term ? Do they never learn anything ?

I wonder if it comes from the UK political system where PMs are forced to resign or ousted at some point, even formerly very popular ones ?

They should probably look across the pond, last time a French president resigned was De Gaulle in 1969, and this was after having explicitly said on TV/radio that should the coming referendum be lost, he would resign, something totally stupid in hindsight.
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:27 pm

Joe Biden and the credulous American Left must now see the EU for what it really is

The President's faith in the EU as a guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement has always been built on romantic idealism, not facts

30 January 2021 • 2:01pm

Joe Biden bet his European policy on being anti-Brexit. He made a mistake. In hindsight, the Democratic leadership was always going to be against it and Northern Ireland offered the illusion of a moral rationale. The EU claimed to be essential to the peace process; everyone agrees that keeping an open border is optimal. When the Brexit negotiations appeared to threaten that consensus, Biden was furious: “We can’t allow the Good Friday Agreement that brought peace to Northern Ireland to become a casualty of Brexit,” he said. “The border must stay open.”

Then the EU tried to close it. And for the worst reasons possible.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/30/joe ... eu-really/
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:42 pm

OA260 wrote:


TIM STANLEY ... few peoples opinion on the issue could be less relevant than his. A hardline Brexiteer with a hard on for today's Trumpism Republican party.....

Best regards
Thomas
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:49 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
OA260 wrote:


TIM STANLEY ... few peoples opinion on the issue could be less relevant than his. A hardline Brexiteer with a hard on for today's Trumpism Republican party.....

Best regards
Thomas


Yet in a democracy his opinion is as valid as a hardline pro EU supporter and anyone else's on here for that matter. He is often on the Sky News press preview and he certainly was not speaking up for Trump the last time I heard him. Not my favourite person but he is a respected journalist despite what his views are.
 
Olddog
Posts: 1653
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:54 pm

But we, europeans, totally ignore him.
 
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OA260
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:58 pm

Olddog wrote:
But we, europeans, totally ignore him.


Is that the Royal “we” because myself and other Europeans dont ignore him . Ignoring peoples views and concerns is why Brexit happened according to some on here !
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14904
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:00 pm

OA260 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
OA260 wrote:


TIM STANLEY ... few peoples opinion on the issue could be less relevant than his. A hardline Brexiteer with a hard on for today's Trumpism Republican party.....

Best regards
Thomas


Yet in a democracy his opinion is as valid as a hardline pro EU supporter .


A hard line EU supporters opinion is just as useless. If he had gotten his favourite Brexit, there would be a hard border between NI and RoI, and not just one looming for about three hours that everyone knows would not have lasted to this morning.

Best regards
Thomas
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:39 pm

OA260 wrote:

Yet in a democracy his opinion is as valid as a hardline pro EU supporter and anyone else's on here for that matter. He is often on the Sky News press preview and he certainly was not speaking up for Trump the last time I heard him. Not my favourite person but he is a respected journalist despite what his views are.


Sure. He also thinks Boris Johnson is a “Churchillian” figure (not sure Churchill would get the same reception in Scotland but there you have it). He’s also compared Johnson to Trump, and thinks Farage should be the ambassador to the US.

So yeah, he’s entitled to his opinions. Everyone is. That doesn’t change the fact that his declared ideological leanings - which he actively professes - render his observations non-objective, and subsequently, pointless.

He’s writing what his Brexiteer audience wants to hear. Which, unsurprisingly, is quoting him here on the rather intriguing assumption that the former Obama administration folk staffing the Biden administration will forget Johnson’s racial slur against Obama, and the ideological alignment of Brexit with Trumpism over a bad, but very temporary, EU misstep.

I don’t buy it, but Brexiteers, like everyone, are entitled to their opinion.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 5467
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Re: Brexit part XI: 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:55 pm

The US does not have a Brexit policy. It does have a pro-GFA policy (ps - Republicans likely support this). Biden will work with the UK for trade agreements but those agreements are always difficult and slow. Meantime WTO will have to cover the gaps.

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