Please continue discussion. Old thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1455521

Ireland to step up police border patrols ahead of Brexit

Garda aims to prevent organised crime exploiting new trading regime with north

Ireland will intensify police patrols along the land border with Northern Ireland as the end of the Brexit transition looms, in a bid to prevent organised crime groups exploiting the new trading regime.

https://amp.ft.com/content/22b21278-0b2 ... 884d4bc2dd

—-





UK to formally leave European Union at 11pm tonight

At 11pm tonight the United Kingdom leaves the European Union Brexit transition phase, ending a 48-year history with the European project.

www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/1231/118707 ... ition-end/

Well no matter what people on here think of Brexit and the agreements passed it is done and dusted, time to move on I cant change any of the agreements so just have to live with them now

This will be my last post on the matter

And just for the recorded I still believe the WA should be rescinded and we trade on WTO terms

A101 wrote:

Well no matter what people on here think of Brexit and the agreements passed it is done and dusted, time to move on I cant change any of the agreements so just have to live with them now

This will be my last post on the matter

And just for the recorded I still believe the WA should be rescinded and we trade on WTO terms

Yeah, facing the very real aftermath with the very real consequences and years and years of ongoing Brexit negotiations after the fact aren't as much fun now that it isn't theoretical any more and just making stuff up doesn't work any more.

Not difficult to see that.

Actually Brexit will be never ending. There are still many things to discuss and deal on (which is something the EU wanted to avoid, but is going to happen anyway). And the actual deal has clauses in it so that it will be renegotiated every 5 years, as for fisheries it will be an annual negotiation after the first 5,5 years period.

In 2016 voters in the UK and US made terrible mistakes.
Trump will be gone January 20, but Brexit will go on forever.

Happy new year everyone.

It will be a great fun this year when the English will fully understand what they have ratified

I don't get the agreement. It seems like this agreement is trying to erase the realities of Brexit.

Industries don't face tariffs, but each side can have their own industrial policy? Wow, talk about a recipe for quick disaster when the UK feels it is at a disadvantage.

And from the looks of it, financial services was left to swim on its own. Now not many people will shed a tear for poor old bankers, and I am sure they will find a way. But in the bigger picture, the ways they will find will surely be harmful to the UK economy.

And the worst part is, that it seems economic sectors still enjoy a virtual-EU style situation (angering countries like Norway), yet the average UK and EU citizen is left holding all the paperwork and hassle. The more you look at it, the more it seems that it's "privatizing the common market, socializing Brexit". Typical.

Both sides are worse off, but they are far worse off politically and in spirit.

The left must stop mourning Brexit – and start seeing its huge potential

Those who predict economic Armageddon ignore the reality. The status quo wasn’t working – now there’s an opportunity for change

So this is it. Forty-eight years after Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community, the fasten seatbelt signs are switched on and the cabin lights have been dimmed. It is time for departure.

Many in the UK, especially on the left, are in despair that this moment has arrived. For them, this can never be the journey to somewhere better: instead it is the equivalent of the last helicopter leaving the roof of the US embassy in Saigon in 1975.

The lefties who voted for Brexit see it differently. For them (us, actually, because I am one of them), the vote to leave was historically progressive. It marked the rejection of a status quo that was only delivering for the better off by those who demanded their voice was heard. Far from being a reactionary spasm, Brexit was democracy in action.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/ ... conomic-uk

OA260 wrote:

The left must stop mourning Brexit – and start seeing its huge potential

Those who predict economic Armageddon ignore the reality. The status quo wasn’t working – now there’s an opportunity for change

So this is it. Forty-eight years after Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community, the fasten seatbelt signs are switched on and the cabin lights have been dimmed. It is time for departure.

Many in the UK, especially on the left, are in despair that this moment has arrived. For them, this can never be the journey to somewhere better: instead it is the equivalent of the last helicopter leaving the roof of the US embassy in Saigon in 1975.

The lefties who voted for Brexit see it differently. For them (us, actually, because I am one of them), the vote to leave was historically progressive. It marked the rejection of a status quo that was only delivering for the better off by those who demanded their voice was heard. Far from being a reactionary spasm, Brexit was democracy in action.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... conomic-uk

That's the biggest load of crap I've read for some time. It's a bit like saying that catching a terminal disease is an opportunity to stop having to pay for food or shelter in the long run..

Brexit is done, gone are the excuses.
There shouldn't be a XIth topic about Brexit created, there should now be a 1st topic about the results of the policies of 'leveling up' and the magically disappearing gap between the haves and the have-nots in the UK...
Or not, of course, because I doubt the Tories are the right people to achieve any of that as they were always very eager to look for excuses as to why they allegedly couldn't do it in the past. (see the past X topics)
Today the long awaited moment has come for the sovereign people of the UK to claim their dividend, right?
Billions of fresh money made, not borrowed should soon be coming their way each and every single year: spend on free education, brand new public infrastructure, massively increased public spending on important things like higher pensions, disappearing NHS waitlists and more generous unemployment benefits...
As from now, it's popcorn time

First lorries cross into France as Britain and Europe wake to new Brexit reality

No early signs of chaos as trucks haul goods across the new customs border

Moments after the UK left the EU with an 11th-hour deal, the first trucks hauling goods across the new customs border presented their clearance documents to French agents before loading on to a train to pass through the Eurotunnel.

With Britain having finally quit the EU single market and customs union, there were no early signs of feared chaos at the border in the first hours of 1 January 2021.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/0 ... it-reality

OA260 wrote:

First lorries cross into France as Britain and Europe wake to new Brexit reality

No early signs of chaos as trucks haul goods across the new customs border

Moments after the UK left the EU with an 11th-hour deal, the first trucks hauling goods across the new customs border presented their clearance documents to French agents before loading on to a train to pass through the Eurotunnel.

With Britain having finally quit the EU single market and customs union, there were no early signs of feared chaos at the border in the first hours of 1 January 2021.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/202 ... it-reality

Chaos will come sooner or later.....

marcelh wrote:

OA260 wrote:

First lorries cross into France as Britain and Europe wake to new Brexit reality

No early signs of chaos as trucks haul goods across the new customs border

Moments after the UK left the EU with an 11th-hour deal, the first trucks hauling goods across the new customs border presented their clearance documents to French agents before loading on to a train to pass through the Eurotunnel.

With Britain having finally quit the EU single market and customs union, there were no early signs of feared chaos at the border in the first hours of 1 January 2021.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/202 ... it-reality

Chaos will come sooner or later.....

It certainly will if we dont tackle climate change !

OA260 wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... conomic-uk

A guy that was pro leave, voted for brexit, tells others to move on. What a surprise!!!!

In the years to come, voters who made Brexit possible will be expecting to all see the benefits Johnson promised them. They will ultimately provide the thumbs up or down on his big Brexit project and legacy For many voters, their support for Brexit was really the culmination of years of growing inequality and declining opportunity. The U.K. was one of the worst OECD performers for wage growth in the years before the referendum.

Delivering real change will require more than speeches about soveriegnty and taking back control. It will require heavy investment in infrastructure, education, retraining, apprenticeships and homebuilding. That will make fiscally traditional Tories very nervous, if not downright rebellious

The situation will also demand some truth telling from a prime minister who prefers to gloss over inconvenient facts. The idea that Britain might be worse off by not being in Europe’s single market was incomprehensible to voters who felt disadvantaged by globalization. They put their trust in Johnson, believing Brexit would bring them material benefits. While he can blame the pandemic to some extent should that fail to appear, that probably won’t carry him to the next general election.

Johnson has all the power, and all the responsibility he had asked for. There’s no one else to blame now

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... ium-europe

vrbarreto wrote:

OA260 wrote:

The left must stop mourning Brexit – and start seeing its huge potential

Those who predict economic Armageddon ignore the reality. The status quo wasn’t working – now there’s an opportunity for change

So this is it. Forty-eight years after Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community, the fasten seatbelt signs are switched on and the cabin lights have been dimmed. It is time for departure.

Many in the UK, especially on the left, are in despair that this moment has arrived. For them, this can never be the journey to somewhere better: instead it is the equivalent of the last helicopter leaving the roof of the US embassy in Saigon in 1975.

The lefties who voted for Brexit see it differently. For them (us, actually, because I am one of them), the vote to leave was historically progressive. It marked the rejection of a status quo that was only delivering for the better off by those who demanded their voice was heard. Far from being a reactionary spasm, Brexit was democracy in action.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... conomic-uk

That's the biggest load of crap I've read for some time. It's a bit like saying that catching a terminal disease is an opportunity to stop having to pay for food or shelter in the long run..

There is truth in that many people voted for Brexit (or had it has one main reason) because they felt the elites weren't listening to them, their economic situation was bad, etc. As one youtuber said, they wanted their life to improve.

However since Brexit was/is a far right libertarian project, in practice the turkey voted for Christmas, and left wing politicians/pundits cheering for Brexit are nothing more than useful idiots for the aforementioned libertarians.

Olddog wrote:

OA260 wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... conomic-uk

A guy that was pro leave, voted for brexit, tells others to move on. What a surprise!!!!

Are you saying that a remain voter posting the opposite opinion is any different ?

Different than what?
You haven't defined what you think of this author, so how can people answer the question then?

OA260 wrote:

Olddog wrote:

OA260 wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... conomic-uk

A guy that was pro leave, voted for brexit, tells others to move on. What a surprise!!!!

Are you saying that a remain voter posting the opposite opinion is any different ?

What I meant is you posting a link to an opinion piece from the only leave mascot on the guardian does not support your thesis.

Olddog wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Olddog wrote:

A guy that was pro leave, voted for brexit, tells others to move on. What a surprise!!!!

Are you saying that a remain voter posting the opposite opinion is any different ?

What I meant is you posting a link to an opinion piece from the only leave mascot on the guardian does not support your thesis.

Its not my thesis Im posting varied views and going forward unlike some wish to do Im not going to rehash the last number of years threads. Im here to post facts of whats happening now after the transition and what in reality has changed . If chaos breaks out next week I will also be posting such . I will also be posting opinions from various views . If someone posts something that needs an alternative view then that will be posted also .

Trump made all sorts of promises as a candidate - save coal, better medical, Mexico will pay for the wall, lower taxes, lower the national debt. He kept one of them, lower taxes (but only temporary if you are a lower income earner), and he has reduced overseas military - but by fiat, not negotiated with our allies. But the Right wing extremists love him and everything he did and didn't. Even those coal miners!

Brexiters will love Brexit, and the more difficult it is and the more they hurt, the more it proves their love was true.

It’s done. How long will these threads go on for?

Scotland can leave the UK but can’t join the EU. How ironic that our friends in the south fight with us over Gibraltar, but may be the UK’s saviour with their valuable veto and a little thing called Catalonia.

On French TV they were showing a British haulier who simply put everyone on vacation for one week, all the trucks parked, to avoid having to deal with teething issues at the border. If enough companies did this, and customers are also reducing orders or delaying because there are no trucks available, then things can run smoothly, with the caveat that much less goods than usual are actually crossing the border.

Revenue has confirmed that its new Customs Roll on-Roll off Service is operational, as administrative procedures for freight kick in following the end of the Brexit transition period.

The service enables transport companies to get a Pre-Boarding Notification (PBN) before the goods they are moving start their journey.

A PBN is needed before a lorry can get onto a ferry to cross the Irish Sea, as the UK is now considered a third country for trade purposes.

This morning ferry operator Stena said that six freight loads bound for Ireland have had to be turned away at Holyhead as they did not have the correct references.

www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0101/1187 ... rned-back/

Woman in the UK already better off with the removal of VAT on sanitary products.

Not sure why the EU class these as non-essential.

P&O axed its daily Hull-Seabruges ferry crossing yesterday

https://www.tijd.be/dossier/europareeks ... 74611.html

P&O Ferries Pride of Bruges will carry on sailing from Hull for another month

ABP do not expect post-Brexit hold-ups at port

The Pride of Bruges ferry will continue docking in the city after its final journey between Hull and Zeebrugge.

P&O confirmed earlier this month it was ending its long-established passenger and freight service to and from the Belgian port on January 1.


The Pride of York, one of the company's two ferries on the route, sailed from Hull for the last time on December 9 when it headed for Rotterdam after being laid up in Hull since April.

Since then, the Pride of Bruges has continued to carry freight across the North Sea between Hull and Zeebrugge in tandem with the freight vessel Elisabeth.

www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east- ... 843244.amp

OA260 wrote:

P&O Ferries Pride of Bruges will carry on sailing from Hull for another month

ABP do not expect post-Brexit hold-ups at port

The Pride of Bruges ferry will continue docking in the city after its final journey between Hull and Zeebrugge.

P&O confirmed earlier this month it was ending its long-established passenger and freight service to and from the Belgian port on January 1.


The Pride of York, one of the company's two ferries on the route, sailed from Hull for the last time on December 9 when it headed for Rotterdam after being laid up in Hull since April.

Since then, the Pride of Bruges has continued to carry freight across the North Sea between Hull and Zeebrugge in tandem with the freight vessel Elisabeth.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hul ... 843244.amp

The end date for the service was initially set for spring this year, but was brought forward by P&O to coincide with the end of the transition period.

Real pitty to see this go, because I've taken the route a few times: ideal way to go directly to the North and Scotland without the need to drive up from Dover, offering a comfortable bed for the night spent on board. Always good value for money. C'est la vie.

OA260 wrote:

With Britain having finally quit the EU single market and customs union, there were no early signs of feared chaos at the border in the first hours of 1 January 2021.

I can't see anyone who feared a border chaos in "the first hours" of New years day. If there is chaos, it will no come until traffic is a bit more normal.

Bostrom wrote:

OA260 wrote:

With Britain having finally quit the EU single market and customs union, there were no early signs of feared chaos at the border in the first hours of 1 January 2021.

I can't see anyone who feared a border chaos in "the first hours" of New years day. If there is chaos, it will no come until traffic is a bit more normal.

I think some over eager posters on the last number of threads suggested / predicted closed doors from 1/1. In reality you are indeed correct it will take 1-2 months to see what the real impact will be. I do expect some disruptions over the next few weeks while the volume increases and people get used to the new systems.

Maybe until july when the digital Brexit will be done.

Arion640 wrote:

It’s done.

No, it has only started a few hours ago!

How long will these threads go on for?

For as long as the consequences of this monumental blunder last?

Scotland can leave the UK but can’t join the EU.

There are no serious objections on the EU side, not even from Spain any more, now that the UK is no longer an EU country.

Quite to the contrary: The scots are known to be european-minded, serious and trustworthy until proven otherwise (which has already happened with the Westminster government, unfortunately).

Scotland will have a mostly standard accession procedure and many on the EU side will welcome them with open arms.

With Northern Ireland that isn't even a question: They already have a guaranteed open door, they only have to choose to step through it in a border poll, and if Westminster doesn't rapidly step up its efforts to keep NI happy, this looks like only a matter of time from here.

How ironic that our friends in the south fight with us over Gibraltar,

That fight is over: Spain will effectively manage Gibraltar's person traffic while the rock moves into the Schengen area, which also erects another intra-UK border not entirely unlike the one across the Irish Sea, just with different connotations.

but may be the UK’s saviour with their valuable veto and a little thing called Catalonia.

You can just forget about that.

Spain has already announced that they won't block Scotland's accession. That had only been an issue while the UK had still been an EU member and especially if Scotland had chosen a disruptive route out of the UK (having no border disputes or other outstanding international conflicts is one standard accession requirement).

Scotland also has a completely different status within the UK than Catalonia does within Spain, so there is very little overlap anyway.

The primary impediment to Scotland's re-accession to the EU is now Westminster's refusal to grant an Indyref V2, but this would increasingly look like a hostage situation the longer they kept that up...

It definitely won't be a walk in the park with issues like probable net receiver status and of course fish again, and even if NI should already have reunited with the Republic this would re-create another land border of then just England with the EU, but all that would just be normal, expected complications, none of them actual show-stoppers.

noviorbis77 wrote:

Woman in the UK already better off with the removal of VAT on sanitary products.

Not sure why the EU class these as non-essential.

You can put your straw woman away again: The UK is actually late to this party, and it's got little to do with the EU, as usual with brexiter claims:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon_tax

In Germany, the amount of tax on sanitary items will be cut from 19% (the basic rate) to 7% (the reduced rate) as of 1 January 2020.[5][6] This is said to be a step toward a tax system that does not discriminate against women.[5] Other European countries France, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands either plan to, or have already, slashed their taxes in recent years.[5]

Klaus wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

Woman in the UK already better off with the removal of VAT on sanitary products.

Not sure why the EU class these as non-essential.

You can put your straw woman away again: The UK is actually late to this party, and it's got little to do with the EU, as usual with brexiter claims:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon_tax

In Germany, the amount of tax on sanitary items will be cut from 19% (the basic rate) to 7% (the reduced rate) as of 1 January 2020.[5][6] This is said to be a step toward a tax system that does not discriminate against women.[5] Other European countries France, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands either plan to, or have already, slashed their taxes in recent years.[5]

That and of course the health insurance also pays back expenses like these in some countries, like mine, making any taxes largely irrelevant since reimbursed then.
So if the UK government wanted to minimize (or even fully waiver) these costs for women, it could always have done so: no need to waif for Brexit at all.

----

New air bridge established between BHX and OST, said to bypass the expected problems at the ports:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/jota ... d-belgium/

sabenapilot wrote:

New air bridge established between BHX and OST, said to bypass the expected problems at the ports:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/jota ... d-belgium/

Evoking memories of the soviet Berlin blockade – just this time it's not the soviets, it's the brexiters against their own country.

Klaus wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

New air bridge established between BHX and OST, said to bypass the expected problems at the ports:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/jota ... d-belgium/

Evoking memories of the soviet Berlin blockade – just this time it's not the soviets, it's the brexiters against their own country.

2.5 million civilians had no access to food, medicine, fuel, electricity and other basic goods. Hardly comparable and a bit over dramatic if not a tad distasteful.

OA260 wrote:

Klaus wrote:

sabenapilot wrote:

New air bridge established between BHX and OST, said to bypass the expected problems at the ports:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/jota ... d-belgium/

Evoking memories of the soviet Berlin blockade – just this time it's not the soviets, it's the brexiters against their own country.

2.5 million civilians had no access to food, medicine, fuel, electricity and other basic goods. Hardly comparable and a bit over dramatic if not a tad distasteful.

Load is said to be mainly fresh food for the supermarkets in and around B'ham which fear their deliveries will be delayed for too long.

Lufthansa has also been flying to Sheffield with a 777F to supply 80 tons of fruit and vegetables to British supermarkets:
https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/busi ... ean-union/

Aldi to boost annual spending on UK-made food and drink by £3.5bn

More than 1,000 small firms in grocer’s supply chain expected to benefit from cash injection

Aldi is boosting its support for British suppliers by announcing it aims to spend £3.5bn more on UK-produced food and drink annually within the next five years

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/20 ... food-drink

Klaus wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

Woman in the UK already better off with the removal of VAT on sanitary products.

Not sure why the EU class these as non-essential.

You can put your straw woman away again: The UK is actually late to this party, and it's got little to do with the EU, as usual with brexiter claims:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon_tax

In Germany, the amount of tax on sanitary items will be cut from 19% (the basic rate) to 7% (the reduced rate) as of 1 January 2020.[5][6] This is said to be a step toward a tax system that does not discriminate against women.[5] Other European countries France, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands either plan to, or have already, slashed their taxes in recent years.[5]

Am I wrong? Can an EU member state put no taxes on female sanitary products?

Actually the real story on this can be seen here. Read further down the EU situation on this waiting since 2018 .


Tax and spending
Tampon tax: government axes VAT on sanitary products

Key campaigner Laura Coryton accuses Tory politicians of trying to turn issue into ‘pro-Brexit thing

The tampon tax has been abolished after the government honoured its March commitment to remove VAT on women’s sanitary products.
But the campaigner who played a pivotal role in the drive to axe the tax has accused the government of using the issue as a political football, after politicians said it had been scrapped thanks to Brexit. Existing EU law prevented member states from reducing VAT below 5%.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-products

noviorbis77 wrote:

Klaus wrote:

noviorbis77 wrote:

Woman in the UK already better off with the removal of VAT on sanitary products.

Not sure why the EU class these as non-essential.

You can put your straw woman away again: The UK is actually late to this party, and it's got little to do with the EU, as usual with brexiter claims:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon_tax

In Germany, the amount of tax on sanitary items will be cut from 19% (the basic rate) to 7% (the reduced rate) as of 1 January 2020.[5][6] This is said to be a step toward a tax system that does not discriminate against women.[5] Other European countries France, Spain, Portugal and the Netherlands either plan to, or have already, slashed their taxes in recent years.[5]

Am I wrong? Can an EU member state put no taxes on female sanitary products?

Ireland has zero taxes on that reportedly?
Are they no EU state then?

Klaus wrote:

There are no serious objections on the EU side, not even from Spain any more, now that the UK is no longer an EU country.

Quite to the contrary: The scots are known to be european-minded, serious and trustworthy until proven otherwise (which has already happened with the Westminster government, unfortunately).

Scotland will have a mostly standard accession procedure and many on the EU side will welcome them with open arms.

With Northern Ireland that isn't even a question: They already have a guaranteed open door, they only have to choose to step through it in a border poll, and if Westminster doesn't rapidly step up its efforts to keep NI happy, this looks like only a matter of time from here.

.................

Scotland also has a completely different status within the UK than Catalonia does within Spain, so there is very little overlap anyway.

The primary impediment to Scotland's re-accession to the EU is now Westminster's refusal to grant an Indyref V2, but this would increasingly look like a hostage situation the longer they kept that up...

I highly doubt the EU or any EU nation would be against an independent Scotland joining the EU. Same with any other European country for that matter.

What I do expect to happen though is they will be subject to the Copenhagen Criteria for EU accession just like any other candidate country such as those already in the process. How long it would take to satisfy that criteria is an interesting question. One thing Scotland would need to do is either form a formal currency deal to keep the pound (not guaranteed) or launch their own currency with their own central bank...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ntral-bank

It’s something the nationalists tend to quake a bit when challenged on that point. Salmond claimed in 2014 they would keep the pound, but I don’t think it’s as straightforward as that. Sturgeon and co need to be honest with the Scottish public about their currency plans and how long it will likely take to complete the accession process, especially as their grievances about wanting indyref2 is on the basis of the UK voting to leave the EU and on the assumption that they would seek to join the EU if they gain independence. They may well have to become members of EFTA as a sort of stepping stone if it’s clear they won’t be able to join the EU quickly. There’s also the small matter of appeasing nationalists who are not as pro-EU as the leadership.

I also imagine divorce talks to formally leave the UK won’t be straightforward either. I think Salmond wanted a period of 18 months between the 2014 referendum and Scotland formally becoming an independent country - is that even enough time to sort everything out and shape the future relationship with the UK?

As for the hostage situation that you compare this to, the 2014 referendum was billed as a “once-in-a-generation” vote.
Salmond was happy to sign up to the Edinburgh Agreement paving the way for the referendum on that basis. Less than 7 years have passed and that, to me, is not what I define as a generation. The various declinations of the Section 30 order requests by Sturgeon to Boris (and Theresa May before him) is basically in keeping with that. I would say another 15-20 years would be something that resembles a generation.

Despite some polls suggesting a small lead favouring independence in recent months, I’m also not convinced revisiting the subject is a high priority for many Scots at this time besides some of the nationalists (I can’t find a link, but there was a poll a few months ago confirming that). That I can completely understand given what’s gone on over the last 12 months and no doubt many Scots still being mindful of the divisive nature of the 2014 referendum along with the EU referendum 2 years later.

My thoughts are I would be sad to see Scotland go their own way, but if that’s what they want then that’s their choice. Like with the Brexiteer’s over Brexit, it will mean Sturgeon and the nationalists have to own what happens after that, but the difference between the UK leaving the EU and Scotland becoming independent of the UK is that one is potentially reversible (albeit in the long-term). I would also suggest that a future poll needs a supermajority of sorts to take effect, and it would be interesting if Sturgeon agrees to that as a condition for indyref2. I think going ahead with Brexit in the basis of a small majority because the poll needed a simple majority to pass has proven to be a divisive mistake and not a model for how

As for Northern Ireland and having a border poll, as you say the mechanism already exists for that if they so wish; however don’t forget that even if the result was in favour of uniting with Ireland, a separate poll would also need to take place in the Republic as per the GFA before it would take effect. The coming years will be interesting as we see how the new arrangements work and, more crucially, if the peace is kept.

OA260 wrote:

Aldi to boost annual spending on UK-made food and drink by £3.5bn

More than 1,000 small firms in grocer’s supply chain expected to benefit from cash injection

Aldi is boosting its support for British suppliers by announcing it aims to spend £3.5bn more on UK-produced food and drink annually within the next five years

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/20 ... food-drink

The british winter tomato and orange farmers will be overjoyed to hear that.

OA260 wrote:

Aldi to boost annual spending on UK-made food and drink by £3.5bn

More than 1,000 small firms in grocer’s supply chain expected to benefit from cash injection

Aldi is boosting its support for British suppliers by announcing it aims to spend £3.5bn more on UK-produced food and drink annually within the next five years

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/20 ... food-drink

Whether it’s Brexit or not, it’s good to see Aldi spend more with domestic suppliers. It will likely go down well with a growing crowd of shoppers in recent years who have been buying local/domestic produce as much as possible due to concerns about food miles and the environmental impact of transporting food and drink. Obviously the British climate doesn’t lend itself towards reliably growing certain fruit and veg all year round (or at all in some cases), so there will always be some sort of need to import, but it’s no bad thing reducing reliance on imported goods.

It’s also a sign of Aldi’s commitment to the UK market given their increases in market share and store counts in recent years.

OA260 wrote:

Aldi to boost annual spending on UK-made food and drink by £3.5bn

More than 1,000 small firms in grocer’s supply chain expected to benefit from cash injection

Aldi is boosting its support for British suppliers by announcing it aims to spend £3.5bn more on UK-produced food and drink annually within the next five years

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/20 ... food-drink

If supermarkets have to fly in say a crop of sala to make sure it ends up fresh at the end consumer, it probably costs a hefty sum.
You can do that for a couple of weeks, but it's not sustainable, especially if they can't price through the transportation costs, so they have to start looking for cheaper alternatives: resourcing, replacement products or even just remove them from the offer.

This begs the question why it was cheaper to sell imported food and drinks vs UK-made so far?
The simple answer: the UK-product was more expensive than the foreign product plus its additional transportation costs.
With the additional custom formalities added to its transportation cost, the balance might have tipped in favour of the UK product for some items, but don't get too excited by that fact as a consumer: the British product on the shelves will thus be more expensive than the foreign product plus its old transportation costs alone, otherwise it would have been there all along....

Olddog wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Olddog wrote:

A guy that was pro leave, voted for brexit, tells others to move on. What a surprise!!!!

Are you saying that a remain voter posting the opposite opinion is any different ?

What I meant is you posting a link to an opinion piece from the only leave mascot on the guardian does not support your thesis.

Indeed, I read that article myself and thought it was a pile of poo poo. I also noticed that his opinion is in stark contrast with the official Guardian position as described in an editorial which was a few lines further down the main page at the time.

Boeing74741R wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Aldi to boost annual spending on UK-made food and drink by £3.5bn

More than 1,000 small firms in grocer’s supply chain expected to benefit from cash injection

Aldi is boosting its support for British suppliers by announcing it aims to spend £3.5bn more on UK-produced food and drink annually within the next five years

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/20 ... food-drink

Whether it’s Brexit or not, it’s good to see Aldi spend more with domestic suppliers. It will likely go down well with a growing crowd of shoppers in recent years who have been buying local/domestic produce as much as possible due to concerns about food miles and the environmental impact of transporting food and drink. Obviously the British climate doesn’t lend itself towards reliably growing certain fruit and veg all year round (or at all in some cases), so there will always be some sort of need to import, but it’s no bad thing reducing reliance on imported goods.

It’s also a sign of Aldi’s commitment to the UK market given their increases in market share and store counts in recent years.

Totally agree and it certainly is good news for those that have a ethical attitude to climate change and the way food is produced and consumed. I have changed my habits over the last few years going from 95% meat/fish bought at a chain supermarket to 80% now bought at a local butchers/fish mongers. Many times there is not a lot in the difference cost wise but quality a lot better too. Being family local businesses you get the personal interaction too.

I got pork last year from ASDA which said it was from Germany but it was pumped full of water and tasteless. I threw the rest in the bin. It was certainly cheap but not worth it.

These days I try to by local. Of course I still like my products from many European countries. Feta cheese and Olive oil,Olives from Greece. Cheeses from France etc... but as for fruit and veg I tend to buy different things depending on the season and whats in season locally. I dont need strawberries in Winter to be honest. Maybe its time for all of us to go back to buy more local and spend a bit more for quality and to support local business and high streets.

The British and Irish produce for beef/dairy are among the best in the world anyway so its not as if we are being forced to have inferior produce. I always check where my products are coming from anyway.

Year around strawberries seem to be only a $ or so more expensive than seasonal ones. A huge variety of other veggies and fruit are imported here in the northern US. Shipping costs for unit carriers, even flown in, is amazingly cheap compared to 50 years ago. And for things a little less fragile cheaper still. Local lamb growers cannot begin to compete with Australian/New Zealand. Still, it is nice to support local farmers and the bucolic life style all that implies.

The UK has three slow days to give some preparation time. The supply line is likely filled up in a lot of sectors and it could be February or March before borders have to more fully function. No reason not to wish them well.

Boeing74741R wrote:

What I do expect to happen though is they will be subject to the Copenhagen Criteria for EU accession just like any other candidate country such as those already in the process. How long it would take to satisfy that criteria is an interesting question.

Of course – as I said it's not a walk in the park, it's just practically certain it would reach its goal as long as the scots stay constructive throughout.

One thing Scotland would need to do is either form a formal currency deal to keep the pound (not guaranteed) or launch their own currency with their own central bank...

This is certainly one of the complications, but in the end it's just about choices to be made, nothing insurmountable.

I also imagine divorce talks to formally leave the UK won’t be straightforward either. I think Salmond wanted a period of 18 months between the 2014 referendum and Scotland formally becoming an independent country - is that even enough time to sort everything out and shape the future relationship with the UK?

Accession will take some time anyway; This is not a quick process. And thinking carefully about all the steps to take instead of blindly rushing all in and then having no way out but by making massive concessions is at the very least suboptimal, as Brexit has just demonstrated.

As for the hostage situation that you compare this to, the 2014 referendum was billed as a “once-in-a-generation” vote.

That is completely and finally blown out of the water by the pretense back then that staying in the UK would be the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU, by now turned into a lie by Brexit.

This argument is gone. Deceased. It has shuffled off its mortal coil. It's an ex-argument.

Despite some polls suggesting a small lead favouring independence in recent months, I’m also not convinced revisiting the subject is a high priority for many Scots at this time besides some of the nationalists (I can’t find a link, but there was a poll a few months ago confirming that). That I can completely understand given what’s gone on over the last 12 months and no doubt many Scots still being mindful of the divisive nature of the 2014 referendum along with the EU referendum 2 years later.

Brexit has done a lot of uniting in Scotland more recently, thanks in large part to Boris Johnson!

Of course we'll see, and a lot hinges on the concrete proposals for a new Indyref – contrary to the brexiters the scottish nationalists had actually provided a plan the last time and they will surely need to present a refined and updated one this time.

But just refusing to allow a new referendum will only serve to increase the resistance in Scotland.

My thoughts are I would be sad to see Scotland go their own way, but if that’s what they want then that’s their choice. Like with the Brexiteer’s over Brexit, it will mean Sturgeon and the nationalists have to own what happens after that, but the difference between the UK leaving the EU and Scotland becoming independent of the UK is that one is potentially reversible (albeit in the long-term).

They are both reversible. Brexit is just such a moronic and dead-end idea that its reversal is by far more likely, while an independent Scotland could gain a massive win in status, influence and economic opportunities as a fully voting and veto-equipped member of the European Union, with full EU backing in all its negotiations with England about border issues as we've seen with Ireland already.

So for Scotland this is a challenging, but perfectly rational path to take, while Brexit was little more than false hopes of an Empire 2.0 and a carefully stoked (if completely futile) desire to get rid of all those pesky furriners.

I would also suggest that a future poll needs a supermajority of sorts to take effect, and it would be interesting if Sturgeon agrees to that as a condition for indyref2. I think going ahead with Brexit in the basis of a small majority because the poll needed a simple majority to pass has proven to be a divisive mistake and not a model for how

I see, so Indyref1 and the Brexit referendum were to be won on small or even tiny majorities, but an Indiyref2 should now get "special" treatment in contrast to both of those?

Yeah, sounds perfectly fair, now doesn't it? Who could ever object to that?