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flyingclrs727
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:45 am

I'm a proud Republican who has voted 4 times against Donald Trump. I'm appalled by today's events. As far as I'm concerned, Trump should be impeached, removed from office, and prohibited from ever holding public office in the United States!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:50 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
Jetty wrote:
If they were prepared they could have prevented it with non-lethal means instead of being walked over and killing a protestor in the process.

"Protestors" do not storm Federal buildings, much less the US Capitol.
Rioters and terrorists do, however.
Ta-ta for now.


Looting through an store devoid of people is a whole different thing than a thread to a whole branch of government. A store owner isn't a target to be killed, anyone in the capital building not 100% ok with Trumps coup attempt was.

Police was extremely restrained, apparently the even had cops that can fire just once, when every time a black kid gets riddled with bullet holes we hear "police trains to shoot until the subject is verified to be not a threat" or such nonsense.

Francoflier wrote:
Maybe NOW the GOP will finally acknowledge the monster they've created over the past 4 years?


Don't let the GOP disassociate itself from this. There is no Antifa as an organisation, BLM is just a statement, but there is a GOP, and none of this would have happend without them aiding and abetting a criminal for years.

Best regards
Thomas
 
hkg82
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:54 am

Do you know what else is interesting?

All these Republicans coming out now saying "Okay enough is enough, we must certify Biden's victory", etc., it's these people who were playing along with Trump's conspiracy theories about voter fraud and rigged elections since November. Why didn't they have the balls to stand up to Trump and inform their constituents and say "NO, due process has been followed and the elections were conducted fairly" from day one? They've acted so subserviently to Trump it's sickening. Yes he has a lot of support but it is their duty not to misrepresent the people who voted them into office. Long term the GOP may lose a significant amount of support because of this.

Good luck to President-elect Biden & his administration in their attempts to pick up the pieces after Inauguration Day - they're going to need it.
Last edited by hkg82 on Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
cpd
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:55 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
I'm a proud Republican who has voted 4 times against Donald Trump. I'm appalled by today's events. As far as I'm concerned, Trump should be impeached, removed from office, and prohibited from ever holding public office in the United States!


You are calling them out which is a lot more than some of the others are doing.

The Republican Party officials now have to do their bit to repair the damage caused by Trump’s dangerous campaign of lies and deception. I think he should be prosecuted for encouraging this and they should support it.

Hopefully some good will come of this. Sadly I remember predicting this would occur. :(
Last edited by cpd on Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 371
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:57 am

hkg82 wrote:
Do you know what else is interesting?

All these Republicans coming out now saying "Okay enough is enough, we must certify Biden's victory", etc., it's these people who were playing along with Trump's conspiracy theories about voter fraud and rigged elections since November. Why didn't they have the balls to stand up to Trump and inform their constituents and say NO, due process has been followed and the elections were conducted fairly. They've acted so subserviently to Trump it's sickening. Yes he has a lot of support but it is their duty not to misrepresent the people who voted them into office.

Good luck to Biden & co in their attempts to pick up the pieces after Inauguration Day - they're going to need it.

The defeat of BOTH Republican Senators in GEORGIA no doubt played a part in this.
Surely some those GOP members of Congress noticed what's in store for them if they keep up this charade.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:03 am

Lindsey Graham's speech was striking.
Nice to see he finally grew a spine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHkYlRm_XM
 
ltbewr
Topic Author
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:04 am

Despite today's horrors and riot in the Capitol, the Congress has reconvened to continue the confirmation of the EC vote for Biden & Harris. Likely there may be no or only 1 more state to be objected to so this process that usually only takes maybe 90 minutes will be over with by dawn Thursday.

Some have compared what happened today at the Capitol to the 1814 battle of what we call incorrectly the War of 1812 waged by the British government to try to take back the USA. I think a better comparison although on a smaller but deadlier scale was the terror act of Puerto Rican separatists in 1954.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Unit ... l_shooting

Donald Trump needs to be removed or suspended from office ASAP with the 25th Amendment led by VP Pence with the cabinet members invoking it. Trump caused today's seditious riot, asking for his cult followers to march on DC on the 6th for weeks and along with Trump flunky Rudy Giuliani triggered the bomb for the terror attack with highly inflammatory speeches about an hour before the start of the confirmation process. Trump must face charges of attempted murder, manslaughter, inciting a riot, including sedition and multiple felonies that should mean he rots in jail to his death.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:06 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
I'm a proud Republican who has voted 4 times against Donald Trump. I'm appalled by today's events. As far as I'm concerned, Trump should be impeached, removed from office, and prohibited from ever holding public office in the United States!

Huh, you have a huge job in front of you. You have to repair your party to make sure that another disaster like Trump will never happen to your party again.

Being European, I can't help you. You will have to do the job yourself with assistance from your fellow U.S. citizens only.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:08 am

cpd wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
I'm a proud Republican who has voted 4 times against Donald Trump. I'm appalled by today's events. As far as I'm concerned, Trump should be impeached, removed from office, and prohibited from ever holding public office in the United States!


You are calling them out which is a lot more than some of the others are doing.

The Republican Party officials now have to do their bit to repair the damage caused by Trump’s dangerous campaign of lies and deception. I think he should be prosecuted for encouraging this and they should support it.

Hopefully some good will come of this. Sadly I remember predicting this would occur. :(


I voted for every Republican presidential nominee from Ronald Reagan in 1980 to Mitt Romney in 2012. I have been Never Tump since 1990 when he divorced his first wife. I am quite relieved that Vice President Mike Pence called out the National Guard to restore order. Where was Donald Trump?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:12 am

I don't like Trump at all.... but it's a *really* big step to invoke the 25th amendment and forcibly remove Trump from power. Democrats would love it. Senior Republicans may use it as a threat to ensure good behaviour in Trump's last 2 weeks, but ask yourself whether Republicans would really want to pull the trigger. Senior Republican politicians would likely want to see some very clear data in national opinion polls before doing the deed. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't..... but do not doubt the enormity of what would be involved and the repercussions that would follow
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:15 am

prebennorholm wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
I'm a proud Republican who has voted 4 times against Donald Trump. I'm appalled by today's events. As far as I'm concerned, Trump should be impeached, removed from office, and prohibited from ever holding public office in the United States!

Huh, you have a huge job in front of you. You have to repair your party to make sure that another disaster like Trump will never happen to your party again.

Being European, I can't help you. You will have to do the job yourself with assistance from your fellow U.S. citizens only.


My wife is Ukrainian. Her Grandfather was a General in the Red Army. Her Great Grandfather served under Vasily Stalin in World War II. I don't want my 10 month old son to grow up in a country contaminated by Trump's cult of personally.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:16 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I don't like Trump at all.... but it's a *really* big step to invoke the 25th amendment and remove Trump from power. Democrats would love it. Senior Republicans may use it as a threat to ensure good behaviour in Trump's last 2 weeks, but ask yourself whether Republicans would really want to pull the trigger. Senior Republican politicians would want to see some very clear data in national opinion polls before doing the deed. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't..... but do not doubt the enormity of what would be involved and the repercussions that would follow


Trump never planned on attending the inauguration so his plan was to probably vacate the WH in some way either with pomp and circumstance or in the middle of the night. At this point he is probably going to do in the middle of the night in the next 5 days. Especially now that he knows there are plans to try to remove him.
 
LH658
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:22 am

It's sad that Republicans couldn't defend their selves against Trump and his family. Republican party treated America like a 3rd World Country, Trump was the puppet, they support his bogus claims, he'll sign their bills etc. I hope Trump influence in politics die dramatically. Next responsible is these people who grab a mic and get a YouTube channel and start spreading all kinds of misinformation, and all of sudden they become famous.

Trump has been in hiding now, he should allow those protestors to stay for free at his Hotel across the street, he just sent a basic Tweet telling people to resort to peaceful protesting. This what he wanted, and those poor citizens bowed down to it. The Republicans took advantage of Trump as well, they allowed him to keep playing with bogus fraud claims, they knew he was footing the bill and embarrassment. Politicians thrive on citizens incompetency to fight their claims.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:22 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I don't like Trump at all.... but it's a *really* big step to invoke the 25th amendment and forcibly remove Trump from power. Democrats would love it. Senior Republicans may use it as a threat to ensure good behaviour in Trump's last 2 weeks, but ask yourself whether Republicans would really want to pull the trigger. Senior Republican politicians would likely want to see some very clear data in national opinion polls before doing the deed. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't..... but do not doubt the enormity of what would be involved and the repercussions that would follow


I have serious reservations about using the 25th amendment. I would rather have Congress impeach Trump again, remove him from office, and prohibit him from ever running for any public office in the US again. I would feel much better if Mike Pence were in charge of the executive branch til January 20.
 
Newark727
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:31 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
I have serious reservations about using the 25th amendment. I would rather have Congress impeach Trump again, remove him from office, and prohibit him from ever running for any public office in the US again. I would feel much better if Mike Pence were in charge of the executive branch til January 20.


Yes, impeachment would have the benefit of stopping a possible 2024 run for Trump - I always figured his brain would be complete mush by then, but at this point we can't take any chances.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:40 am

NIKV69 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
I don't like Trump at all.... but it's a *really* big step to invoke the 25th amendment and remove Trump from power. Democrats would love it. Senior Republicans may use it as a threat to ensure good behaviour in Trump's last 2 weeks, but ask yourself whether Republicans would really want to pull the trigger. Senior Republican politicians would want to see some very clear data in national opinion polls before doing the deed. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't..... but do not doubt the enormity of what would be involved and the repercussions that would follow


Trump never planned on attending the inauguration so his plan was to probably vacate the WH in some way either with pomp and circumstance or in the middle of the night. At this point he is probably going to do in the middle of the night in the next 5 days. Especially now that he knows there are plans to try to remove him.


One thing’s for sure - he aint getting into Scotland.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:41 am

News now reporting that 4 people died as a result of the riot.
https://www.king5.com/article/news/nati ... 52ea6f8437
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:41 am

To those who seek Trump's removal from power.... sleep on it overnight and see how you feel in the morning when things are a little calmer and Biden has (presumably) been confirmed as next President. Sometimes best to think about these things away from the heat of the moment
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:45 am

Even with Democrats controlling congress and the White House the reputation of the U.S. will not be able to recover for years. Who will take over from the U.S. to be the beacon of freedom and democracy after today’s Actions? Will that be Europe, Japan, New Zealand, or Canada, or maybe somewhere else? The U.S. is headed for turbulent years after these 4 years even with a more progressive and stable leadership. There are too many conspiracy theorists on the right in the U.S.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:47 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
To those who seek Trump's removal from power.... sleep on it overnight and see how you feel in the morning when things are a little calmer and Biden has (presumably) been confirmed as next President. Sometimes best to think about these things away from the heat of the moment


I would sleep better knowing Mike Pence is in charge rather than Donald Trump. Do you really want Trump to be in control of the US nuclear weapons arsenal?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:51 am

In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Palop
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:59 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good that has come out of the USA

Except that when Obama took over after Bush the Lesser, the preceding president was seen as an aberration that was exasperated by the 9/11 attacks. The allies could sort like f forgive a moment of insanity. With Trump, the US has shown itself to elect terrible presidents with an alarming frequency. On top of that, the internal divisions within the US have been exposed for everyone to see. The reputational hit that the US has takes should not be underestimated.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:06 am

"Trial by combat"
Just before a mob of MAGA supporters swamped the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, Donald Trump's attorney Rudy Giuliani proposed a "trial by combat" over his baseless allegations of election rigging during a bizarre speech at a rally to protest the certification of Joe Biden's Electoral College win.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... uxbndlbing
Rudy needs to be charged with sedition.
This is unacceptable any longer.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:07 am

Between September 1939 and Pearl Harbor in 1941, the USA was remarkably isolationist - it wanted nothing to do with what it saw as Europe's war. Even after Pearl Harbor, it wasn't until Germany declared war on the USA that the USA decided to fight in Europe. Once that commitment to fight for democracy had been made, all other things in the isolationist years were forgotten, and the USA was viewed by Europe as a golden land of freedom and plenty for another 50 years
Do not imagine that other countries in the world make mistakes - they all do. The world will again choose to forgive America for what happened under Trump
 
Derico
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:14 am

As an academic exercise, and since the idea of "peaceful transfer of power" has been a phrase used for ages to catalogue the health of alternating representative governments: given the violence seen today plus the brief but real interruption of institutions, and most paramount an instance of a violent death, is this cycle of the US democratic proceess officially violent, or at the very least "not peaceful"? The US has had several leaders assassinated but that falls IMO under the umbrella of "interruption of the democratic cycle", which also includes things like presidents resigning due to social unrest or from internal political pressures.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:15 am

Aaron747 wrote:
One thing’s for sure - he aint getting into Scotland.


That is the last thing on his mind.

flyingclrs727 wrote:
I would sleep better knowing Mike Pence is in charge rather than Donald Trump. Do you really want Trump to be in control of the US nuclear weapons arsenal?


Something tells me he basically is. After today I can't see Trump doing much of anything but sit somewhere and talk to kids. I still think he will resign without giving a single press moment and fly to Florida.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:19 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
One thing’s for sure - he aint getting into Scotland.


That is the last thing on his mind.

flyingclrs727 wrote:
I would sleep better knowing Mike Pence is in charge rather than Donald Trump. Do you really want Trump to be in control of the US nuclear weapons arsenal?


Something tells me he basically is. After today I can't see Trump doing much of anything but sit somewhere and talk to kids. I still think he will resign without giving a single press moment and fly to Florida.


He won't be be talking to my kids.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:25 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
One thing’s for sure - he aint getting into Scotland.


That is the last thing on his mind.

flyingclrs727 wrote:
I would sleep better knowing Mike Pence is in charge rather than Donald Trump. Do you really want Trump to be in control of the US nuclear weapons arsenal?


Something tells me he basically is. After today I can't see Trump doing much of anything but sit somewhere and talk to kids. I still think he will resign without giving a single press moment and fly to Florida.


He won't be be talking to my kids.


Typo I meant to say his kids. For they are all that will probably speak with him now. I think even Melania is getting plans together to get a private jet to get her out.
 
marcelh
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:32 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA

Dream on.... about 70 million people voted for Trump and the world has seen that. And about the good deeds... you mean “protecting US interests”
 
luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:34 am

Jetty wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
I've seen the footage. Just as with most victims of police shootings she should have known better, but her actions didn't warrant a deadly shot at all. All she was guilty of is trying to gain unlawful entry.


We weren't there and this probably happened when the chaos just broke out. As a supporter of law enforcement I give them the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are out but as a member of the military she should have not been doing what she was doing. Sadly she paid the ultimate price.

The footage was very clear. Even without being a member of the military she shouldn't have been doing what she was doing, but isn't wasn't anything more than trying to gain entry; not armed and not threatening the lives of others. Are you consistent with this opinion? It implies you support shooting looters as well. None have been shot.

I feel about as sorry for her as I do for the lump of a person who was mowed down on I-5 during the summer protests in Seattle. And that...is not at all. Life and the world can be cruel and sometimes we are the authors of our misfortune.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:46 am

marcelh wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA

Dream on.... about 70 million people voted for Trump and the world has seen that.


Voting for the idiot once may have been forgivable, voting for him twice in significant numbers AND his parties failure to remove him from office ...nope..... future relationships may go back to sounding nice, but every single foreign government will work under the assumption that the electorate will put another PoS in office at some point, without any working processes to deal with that. Removing, and banning from future office, those that where complicit would also help to make the US resemble a state of law.

If the US wants to be trusted again, there would need to be a ton of robust legal reforms to remove trust into institutions and replace them with automatic legal repercussions. Essentially post Watergate reforms squared. Luckily, the US already has plans somewhere in an archive, after all they told Germany and Japan what the future system has to be like to be trustworthy again.

It is also a splendid opportunity to define some limits for pardon power and where freedom of speech ends when it comes to consequential lies.

best regards
Thomas
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:56 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I don't like Trump at all.... but it's a *really* big step to invoke the 25th amendment and forcibly remove Trump from power. Democrats would love it. Senior Republicans may use it as a threat to ensure good behaviour in Trump's last 2 weeks, but ask yourself whether Republicans would really want to pull the trigger. Senior Republican politicians would likely want to see some very clear data in national opinion polls before doing the deed. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't..... but do not doubt the enormity of what would be involved and the repercussions that would follow


If this doesn't justify invoking the 25th amendment, what does then?
What level of insanity, depravity and lack of respect for American institutions and its democracy would justify using the law that was written for that very purpose?

Would Trump have to actually go down 5th Avenue shooting people in broad daylight for the provisions of that amendment to apply?
It gets to a point where excusing Trump's behavior normalizes it and opens the door to it becoming a new accepted norm.
If impeachment is not justified for a President who uses every power and influence he has to subvert the nation's democratic process to try to remain in power, what the hell is it for? Why even have it?
 
steveinbc
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:59 am

To me it's a fitting legacy for the Trump presidency. The final memories will be of his supporters disgraceful behavior. Fitting.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:13 am

alfa164 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Crazy times Image
Image


The Vikings have come back to reclaim the country!

Maybe they should just try to win a football game first...

;)


Mad Max is set in 2021
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:22 am

Jetty wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Jetty wrote:
I didn't see any looting or violence against persons going on in DC today, so I'm not sure BLM/Antifa compares favorable. You don't need a comparison anyway to conclude extremists on both sides are thugs.

The US capital hasn’t been breached since 1814 when the British set it on fire. This is far more serious and you know it.


I agree it's more serious, but that doesn't make it more violent. Those are two different things.


These terrorists are home grown. These armed terrorists who stormed the capital are from right here in the US of A. That us MUCH more dangerous. Russian and Chinese and Columbian and (insert nation here) agents must plan and work for years or even decades. These domestic terrorists had the aid and comfort of the Republican party and MSM telling them that they are under attack and their leader had the election stolen and lie after lie after lie after lie. And, the added bonus of "we demand guns everywhere" also.

But, yeah, 1814 was worse......
 
melpax
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:25 am

Kent350787 wrote:
Australia uses popular vote by relevant electoral district to select its parliamentary representatives. "Attendance" to vote is compulsory - once you have received a ballot, it is your choice what to do with it and, even here, informal or spoiled vote numbers are increasing.

The Head of State remains the same person as the Queen or King of England. For practical purposes, the national leader is the equivalent of the House majority leader.

In Australia, as with the USA, the Senate is a "State's chamber". Having the EC as well in this daya and age makes little sense to many outside the USA.

The fallout from today is a crisis upon a crisis for the USA. Yet again, it appears that a D administration will be left to sort out the worst failures of a R predecessor, but this time will need to actively consider the democtatric institutions of state and whether people have acted outside of these. The case against Giuliani regarding incitement today appears worth consideration.


Also with our system, we have an independent Electoral Commission that oversees voter registration, Federal electorate boundaries (which are drawn up & re-drawn on purely demographic grounds), and the conduct of Federal elections. The states & territories have no involvement with the running of Federal elections, except for the use of schools & other community facilities as voting centres.

Where our system also differs from the US system, is that Cabinet members are drawn from the ranks of the House of Reps & Senate. By convention as already explained, the PM is the equivalent of the House Majority Leader, and the Treasurer who is basically the 2nd most powerful Cabinet member is also a lower house MP. The rest of the cabinet is a mixture of MPs & Senators. Also not unusual to see cabinet ministers change portfolios or be demoted to the 'backbenches' of parliament on occasion.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:26 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
The way the result was split perfectly half and half in this election is almost like a statistical anomaly.
The Senate results in Georgia are a perfect reflection of that.
Some say that the election was fair, others say it wasn't.

Who to believe?
Is the US still a democracy?
Or are there other things going on behind the curtains?

Either way, these are the kind of questions people ask in a banana republic.
That's the only certainty now.

America used to be such a great country.


What do you mean the vote was perfectly half and half in this election, it was a popular vote landslide in favour of Biden. 7m more people voted for Biden than Trump.
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:26 am

marcelh wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA

Dream on.... about 70 million people voted for Trump and the world has seen that. And about the good deeds... you mean “protecting US interests”


The majority of people voted for Hillary in 2016. What is your point? The ELECTORAL COLLEGE decided that Biden got more votes this year. The Constitution decided that. IIRC, in 2016, you all DEMANDED that we all bow to the king because Hillary got more of the popular vote. This time around YOUR guy lost both the Electoral College vote AND the popular vote.

But, go ahead and redo the vote. Biden won. Get over it. He is our new president. Get over it. He is OUR president. Bow to his will. Isn't that what you all said in 2016?
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13577
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:31 am

seahawk wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Crazy times Image
Image


The Vikings have come back to reclaim the country!

Maybe they should just try to win a football game first...

;)


Mad Max is set in 2021


No Mad Max is not set in 2021, Mad Max was set in a post oil crisis world circa 1983-85..
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14642
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:44 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
The way the result was split perfectly half and half in this election is almost like a statistical anomaly.
The Senate results in Georgia are a perfect reflection of that.
Some say that the election was fair, others say it wasn't.

Who to believe?
Is the US still a democracy?
Or are there other things going on behind the curtains?

Either way, these are the kind of questions people ask in a banana republic.
That's the only certainty now.

America used to be such a great country.


What do you mean the vote was perfectly half and half in this election, it was a popular vote landslide in favour of Biden. 7m more people voted for Biden than Trump.


It is also not unusual for US elections to be very close, Bush became President with a few hundred votes, Trump with a couple of 10k votes in the right places .... guess those must have been fraudulent then too...

best regards
Thomas
 
bennett123
Posts: 10865
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:52 am

The US need to decide what happens next. Do they look over the Abyess and step back or not.

The rest of the world will be concerned about this for years, maybe longer.

I doubt that many people across the world thought that this was possible.
Last edited by bennett123 on Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1507
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:52 am

seb146 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA

Dream on.... about 70 million people voted for Trump and the world has seen that. And about the good deeds... you mean “protecting US interests”


The majority of people voted for Hillary in 2016. What is your point? The ELECTORAL COLLEGE decided that Biden got more votes this year. The Constitution decided that. IIRC, in 2016, you all DEMANDED that we all bow to the king because Hillary got more of the popular vote. This time around YOUR guy lost both the Electoral College vote AND the popular vote.

But, go ahead and redo the vote. Biden won. Get over it. He is our new president. Get over it. He is OUR president. Bow to his will. Isn't that what you all said in 2016?

Calm down, Trump isn’t “my guy”. I’m a proud “liberal” European
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:10 am

These people are insane. Don’t have much to say beyond that. Absolute lunatics. I think (Hope?) we may be witnessing the demise of the GOP...would not be sad to see that happen, might be for the best for the MAGA cultists to split off into their own party.
 
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ArcticSEA
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:04 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:13 am

Trump has reportedly banned some of Mike Pence's staff from entering the WH grounds.
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-re ... e-grounds/

Republican Senator Inhofe suggests the rift between Trump and Pence is permanent.
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/sen-i ... was-today/

There is almost certainly some 25th amendment talk going on right now.
Trump is bunkered in. We may get the spectacle of him being escorted out after all.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25595
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:20 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA


Maybe hard to know. Even in Ireland with the so called historic Irish - American relationship many Irish have lost respect and just make jokes and talk about what a mess it all is. I hear it all the time. Maybe Biden having the Irish link will restore some respect but doubt it will ever be the same again. The damage is done Trump has tried to humiliate lots of people around the globe. His language is undiplomatic to say the least. No wonder people doubted his sanity. He should never be allowed near the political stage again and should be prosecuted for anything they can get on him .
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:26 am

seb146 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
The US capital hasn’t been breached since 1814 when the British set it on fire. This is far more serious and you know it.


I agree it's more serious, but that doesn't make it more violent. Those are two different things.


These terrorists are home grown. These armed terrorists who stormed the capital are from right here in the US of A. That us MUCH more dangerous. Russian and Chinese and Columbian and (insert nation here) agents must plan and work for years or even decades. These domestic terrorists had the aid and comfort of the Republican party and MSM telling them that they are under attack and their leader had the election stolen and lie after lie after lie after lie. And, the added bonus of "we demand guns everywhere" also.

But, yeah, 1814 was worse......


The truth will come out that it was disguised Antifa that led the break in to the Capital.
 
astuteman
Posts: 7419
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:31 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA


I'd suggest that is a very US-centric view that you might want to test with opinions from outside the USA.

On the "beacon of Freedom and Democracy" side :scratchchin:
funny thing to read whilst I'm watching the charade unfold in the house of Representatives, and Trump is STILL president.
It's bad enough that he ever was.
Just glad I live in the UK is all I'll say.

You may also find that the world has also not forgotten that the USA ONLY intervenes on the world stage when there's something big in it for them.
I'd suggest not to go trying to sell US philanthropy on a world which is way smarter than you seem to think it is..

Rgds
 
M564038
Posts: 654
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:36 am

There are no greater crime in a democracy than attacking democracy itself.
These people tried to stop, forcefully, the most basic and sacred functions of democracy.
This is an attack on national, and through the power of the mighty US, international security.
It is treason.
None of the terrorists that set their foot inside the fence should ever be let out of prison.

This is the real degree of seriousness.

That most politicians and officials choose to use a more subdued language for the time being, just as the police showed an incredible, almost unbeliveable constraint to defuse the situation short term should not misguide you into believing otherwise.

You also need to look upon yourself.
You have shown in every discussion regarding politics that you place yourself on the wrong side of history.
I know hou are not going to listen to me, but take a look at your own posts from the past, and see how every single one of them has the wrong conclusions, the wrong analysis, the wrong predictions and how you clearly have understood zero, zilch and nada of how the world is put together and functions. Also note that a lot of us have been right the whole time.
Get out of the cult!

NIKV69 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
The footage was very clear. Even without being a member of the military she shouldn't have been doing what she was doing, but isn't wasn't anything more than trying to gain entry; not armed and not threatening the lives of others. Are you consistent with this opinion? It implies you support shooting looters as well. None have been shot.


How does shooting looters have anything to do with this? Again we were not there, we don't know who the person who pulled the trigger encountered. I doubt he was acting in any way other than to protect congress.

Looters are a whole other issue and does not belong in this discussion.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15694
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:38 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Jetty wrote:

I agree it's more serious, but that doesn't make it more violent. Those are two different things.


These terrorists are home grown. These armed terrorists who stormed the capital are from right here in the US of A. That us MUCH more dangerous. Russian and Chinese and Columbian and (insert nation here) agents must plan and work for years or even decades. These domestic terrorists had the aid and comfort of the Republican party and MSM telling them that they are under attack and their leader had the election stolen and lie after lie after lie after lie. And, the added bonus of "we demand guns everywhere" also.

But, yeah, 1814 was worse......


The truth will come out that it was disguised Antifa that led the break in to the Capital.


Mmmmyeah how about ‘nah’. Even Andy Ngo reported that it wasn’t Antifa.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... ssion=true
 
cpd
Posts: 6788
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:42 am

Aaron747 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:

These terrorists are home grown. These armed terrorists who stormed the capital are from right here in the US of A. That us MUCH more dangerous. Russian and Chinese and Columbian and (insert nation here) agents must plan and work for years or even decades. These domestic terrorists had the aid and comfort of the Republican party and MSM telling them that they are under attack and their leader had the election stolen and lie after lie after lie after lie. And, the added bonus of "we demand guns everywhere" also.

But, yeah, 1814 was worse......


The truth will come out that it was disguised Antifa that led the break in to the Capital.


Mmmmyeah how about ‘nah’. Even Andy Ngo reported that it wasn’t Antifa.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... ssion=true

"
There are enough photos of these people, they can be identified. We already know the identity of a few of them.
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