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Kiwirob
Posts: 13704
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:03 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Jetty wrote:

I agree it's more serious, but that doesn't make it more violent. Those are two different things.


These terrorists are home grown. These armed terrorists who stormed the capital are from right here in the US of A. That us MUCH more dangerous. Russian and Chinese and Columbian and (insert nation here) agents must plan and work for years or even decades. These domestic terrorists had the aid and comfort of the Republican party and MSM telling them that they are under attack and their leader had the election stolen and lie after lie after lie after lie. And, the added bonus of "we demand guns everywhere" also.

But, yeah, 1814 was worse......


The truth will come out that it was disguised Antifa that led the break in to the Capital.


You’re like Trump the the gift that keeps giving. Comedy gold both of you.
 
astuteman
Posts: 7456
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:13 am

astuteman wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA


I'd suggest that is a very US-centric view that you might want to test with opinions from outside the USA.

On the "beacon of Freedom and Democracy" side :scratchchin:
funny thing to read whilst I'm watching the charade unfold in the house of Representatives, and Trump is STILL president.
It's bad enough that he ever was.
Just glad I live in the UK is all I'll say.

You may also find that the world has also not forgotten that the USA ONLY intervenes on the world stage when there's something big in it for them.
I'd suggest not to go trying to sell US philanthropy on a world which is way smarter than you seem to think it is..

Rgds


Probably a bit blunt and insensitive in hindsight, in current circumstances, so apologies.
I consider myself to be on balance a US-o-phile - I grew up in the defence industry during the cold war......

Just watching the vote in the house of reps on Pennsylvania electoral college close with the objection being overruled, as it was in the Senate.

I think its fair to say that your Democratic processes have survived a pretty vicious mauling, not just over the last 24 hours, but in past years.as well.
The USA is to be congratulated for this, and has my respect.

Rgds
 
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seahawk
Posts: 10417
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:20 am

Kiwirob wrote:
seahawk wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

The Vikings have come back to reclaim the country!

Maybe they should just try to win a football game first...

;)


Mad Max is set in 2021


No Mad Max is not set in 2021, Mad Max was set in a post oil crisis world circa 1983-85..


I know. But is was too funny to repeat the meme. And obviously Mad Max got things right when it comes to clothing choices after the brake down of a civil society.
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:25 am

astuteman wrote:
astuteman wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA


I'd suggest that is a very US-centric view that you might want to test with opinions from outside the USA.

On the "beacon of Freedom and Democracy" side :scratchchin:
funny thing to read whilst I'm watching the charade unfold in the house of Representatives, and Trump is STILL president.
It's bad enough that he ever was.
Just glad I live in the UK is all I'll say.

You may also find that the world has also not forgotten that the USA ONLY intervenes on the world stage when there's something big in it for them.
I'd suggest not to go trying to sell US philanthropy on a world which is way smarter than you seem to think it is..

Rgds


Probably a bit blunt and insensitive in hindsight, in current circumstances, so apologies.
I consider myself to be on balance a US-o-phile - I grew up in the defence industry during the cold war......

Just watching the vote in the house of reps on Pennsylvania electoral college close with the objection being overruled, as it was in the Senate.

I think its fair to say that your Democratic processes have survived a pretty vicious mauling, not just over the last 24 hours, but in past years.as well.
The USA is to be congratulated for this, and has my respect.

Rgds


It is pretty embarrassing at the moment being here, though I’m sure you can relate in some level. I mean, you guys left Europe and your guy, while certainly not trump, is certainly not the idea of British sophistication we’ve come to expect.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 10417
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:25 am

M564038 wrote:
There are no greater crime in a democracy than attacking democracy itself.
These people tried to stop, forcefully, the most basic and sacred functions of democracy.
This is an attack on national, and through the power of the mighty US, international security.
It is treason.
None of the terrorists that set their foot inside the fence should ever be let out of prison.


They are not terrorists, Trump is. They believe that they are defending democracy based on the lies by Trump, the GOP and right wing media about election fraud. It is exactly the rule book of Germany 1933. Make people doubt the legitimacy of the Democracy and make them believe that their freedom depends on destroying the form of government that actually provides this freedom.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 12693
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:31 am

This is what you get after 4 years of constant lies from the US President. Four years of mismanagement. Not accepting democracy, not accepting a defeat in free and open elections, not accepting free and critical media. 60 court cases and no fraud has been proven. It undermines institutions, the fabric of a civilized country.

If you put a populist in charge, you will open pandora's box, and this current President did just that.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1675
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:44 am

astuteman wrote:
astuteman wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA


I'd suggest that is a very US-centric view that you might want to test with opinions from outside the USA.

On the "beacon of Freedom and Democracy" side :scratchchin:
funny thing to read whilst I'm watching the charade unfold in the house of Representatives, and Trump is STILL president.
It's bad enough that he ever was.
Just glad I live in the UK is all I'll say.

You may also find that the world has also not forgotten that the USA ONLY intervenes on the world stage when there's something big in it for them.
I'd suggest not to go trying to sell US philanthropy on a world which is way smarter than you seem to think it is..

Rgds


Probably a bit blunt and insensitive in hindsight, in current circumstances, so apologies.
I consider myself to be on balance a US-o-phile - I grew up in the defence industry during the cold war......

Just watching the vote in the house of reps on Pennsylvania electoral college close with the objection being overruled, as it was in the Senate.

I think its fair to say that your Democratic processes have survived a pretty vicious mauling, not just over the last 24 hours, but in past years.as well.
The USA is to be congratulated for this, and has my respect.

Rgds


No offence is taken - and you were absolutely right to question my viewpoint - I'm in Europe right now but had forgotten how Europe's view of the USA has changed since 2000
 
cpd
Posts: 6828
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:44 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The truth will come out that it was disguised Antifa that led the break in to the Capital.


Is Jake Angeli disguised Antifa then? This is him:

Image

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 50c6e52b10

On one of Angeli’s Facebook pages, he is pictured shaking hands with former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, during a visit by the President’s personal lawyer to Arizona.

Angeli has captioned the image. “Got to shake Rudy’s hand … what an honour it is to be present.

“Hold the line patriots! USA will prevail, we will stop the steal! Cuz as always God wins!”

Hours before the violence at the Capitol in which a pro-Trump supporter was fatally shot, Giuliani encouraged supporters to pursue a “trial by combat”


Is Antifa then shaking hands with Trump's lawyer now... So, what is your excuse now?
 
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scbriml
Posts: 20195
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:57 am

Jetty wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
I've seen the footage. Just as with most victims of police shootings she should have known better, but her actions didn't warrant a deadly shot at all. All she was guilty of is trying to gain unlawful entry.


We weren't there and this probably happened when the chaos just broke out. As a supporter of law enforcement I give them the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are out but as a member of the military she should have not been doing what she was doing. Sadly she paid the ultimate price.

The footage was very clear. Even without being a member of the military she shouldn't have been doing what she was doing, but isn't wasn't anything more than trying to gain entry; not armed and not threatening the lives of others. Are you consistent with this opinion? It implies you support shooting looters as well. None have been shot.


If only she'd followed the instructions of the officer, this wouldn't have happened. That's what you'd both say if the police shot a black man dead on the street.

I'd also point out your orange hero said "When the looting starts, the shooting starts". So there's that. Karma's a bitch.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:58 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
There is reporting that there is serious discussion amongst legilsators around invoking the 25th amendment.


IMO Trump is planning a midnight resignation and exit and this will be done by Sunday. Melania will file for divorce by Monday.


He's too much of a coward. Just like he incited the crowd and said he's march with them to the Capitol. Then sat in the White House watching the results of his words on TV.
 
Jalap
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:59 am

seahawk wrote:
M564038 wrote:
There are no greater crime in a democracy than attacking democracy itself.
These people tried to stop, forcefully, the most basic and sacred functions of democracy.
This is an attack on national, and through the power of the mighty US, international security.
It is treason.
None of the terrorists that set their foot inside the fence should ever be let out of prison.


They are not terrorists, Trump is. They believe that they are defending democracy based on the lies by Trump, the GOP and right wing media about election fraud. It is exactly the rule book of Germany 1933. Make people doubt the legitimacy of the Democracy and make them believe that their freedom depends on destroying the form of government that actually provides this freedom.

Agreed.
Protests are important in a well functionning democracy. And it isn't rare that protests lead to riots. This isn't the same as terrorism at all. The majority of protesting people truely believe in the cause they're standing up for. You can't blame people for standing up for a cause they believe in, even if they've got it wrong. Riots of course are not okay, but it isn't any worse than, say, hooliganism.

This'll be the biggest challenge for Biden, because so many people truely believe in things that are completely false. The people who spread lies need to be brought to justice in fully transparent trials.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:03 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
The footage was very clear. Even without being a member of the military she shouldn't have been doing what she was doing, but isn't wasn't anything more than trying to gain entry; not armed and not threatening the lives of others. Are you consistent with this opinion? It implies you support shooting looters as well. None have been shot.


How does shooting looters have anything to do with this? Again we were not there, we don't know who the person who pulled the trigger encountered. I doubt he was acting in any way other than to protect congress.

Looters are a whole other issue and does not belong in this discussion.


Except people were looting and causing criminal damage to property. If this was a BLM protest, you'd be saying the protestor should have followed police instructions and they wouldn't have been shot. Double standards much?

Where are your condemnations of Trump's words and inaction?
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16538
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:09 am

scbriml wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
There is reporting that there is serious discussion amongst legilsators around invoking the 25th amendment.


IMO Trump is planning a midnight resignation and exit and this will be done by Sunday. Melania will file for divorce by Monday.


He's too much of a coward. Just like he incited the crowd and said he's march with them to the Capitol. Then sat in the White House watching the results of his words on TV.


Also too out of shape. Can’t travel that far without a golf cart. His fans had to walk.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 10417
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:12 am

Jalap wrote:
seahawk wrote:
M564038 wrote:
There are no greater crime in a democracy than attacking democracy itself.
These people tried to stop, forcefully, the most basic and sacred functions of democracy.
This is an attack on national, and through the power of the mighty US, international security.
It is treason.
None of the terrorists that set their foot inside the fence should ever be let out of prison.


They are not terrorists, Trump is. They believe that they are defending democracy based on the lies by Trump, the GOP and right wing media about election fraud. It is exactly the rule book of Germany 1933. Make people doubt the legitimacy of the Democracy and make them believe that their freedom depends on destroying the form of government that actually provides this freedom.

Agreed.
Protests are important in a well functionning democracy. And it isn't rare that protests lead to riots. This isn't the same as terrorism at all. The majority of protesting people truely believe in the cause they're standing up for. You can't blame people for standing up for a cause they believe in, even if they've got it wrong. Riots of course are not okay, but it isn't any worse than, say, hooliganism.

This'll be the biggest challenge for Biden, because so many people truely believe in things that are completely false. The people who spread lies need to be brought to justice in fully transparent trials.


It is a coup attempt by Trump and should be punished under U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government. Punishing the people who stormed the Capitol is not dealing wit hthe problem, as Trumps action had all classic moves of a coup attempt.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:12 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
[The truth will come out that it was disguised Antifa that led the break in to the Capital.


So no condemnation of Trump or the rioters, just pretending it was someone because it couldn't be those nice, peaceful Trump supporters?

Seriously? Maybe go back to posting on TGP?
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 1072
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:17 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
The US capital hasn’t been breached since 1814 when the British set it on fire. This is far more serious and you know it.

What about this attack in 1954?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Un ... l_shooting
 
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Pellegrine
Posts: 2691
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:39 am

These people are white supremacist separatists and terrorists. Want to see some wild internet sleuthing?

https://www.instagram.com/homegrownterrorists/

If the internet can ID these people this quickly the FBI are all over them.
 
GDB
Posts: 14408
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:48 am

ltbewr wrote:
Despite today's horrors and riot in the Capitol, the Congress has reconvened to continue the confirmation of the EC vote for Biden & Harris. Likely there may be no or only 1 more state to be objected to so this process that usually only takes maybe 90 minutes will be over with by dawn Thursday.

Some have compared what happened today at the Capitol to the 1814 battle of what we call incorrectly the War of 1812 waged by the British government to try to take back the USA. I think a better comparison although on a smaller but deadlier scale was the terror act of Puerto Rican separatists in 1954.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Unit ... l_shooting

Donald Trump needs to be removed or suspended from office ASAP with the 25th Amendment led by VP Pence with the cabinet members invoking it. Trump caused today's seditious riot, asking for his cult followers to march on DC on the 6th for weeks and along with Trump flunky Rudy Giuliani triggered the bomb for the terror attack with highly inflammatory speeches about an hour before the start of the confirmation process. Trump must face charges of attempted murder, manslaughter, inciting a riot, including sedition and multiple felonies that should mean he rots in jail to his death.


The object of the 1812-14 war are varied but for the US, it was mainly an attempt to subdue and absorb what is now Canada.
(That's why much of the rest of the world has a wry smile when all the whole 'we are not an empire'/'lost our innocence' - again starts up). Never innocent.
Also having to hear endless lectures about being 'the oldest' (no) and 'greatest democracy'. The latter very risible today and that's before the whole all the history of Jim Crow etc.

No, a half century of racial animus anew after finally legislation made colour based voting suppression and a range of other oppression illegal at last, which had a blowback with one party with the 'Southern Strategy'.
Then they started putting B movie actors up for President when a certain anti science/anti knowledge took hold, along with a long, ongoing Gerrymandering, voter roll suppression, trying to bring back Jim Crow.
This of course is not the view of the majority of Americans now, how could it be when Trump's predecessor was elected and twice but that drove the GOP and many of it's voters white hot with anger.

It to this stepped an obvious con man, fraudster, deeply racist, very nasty and every GOP member who supported or allowed it, who voted for him, are deeply culpable in these events of the last 24 hours, he told you all the law means nothing to him before becoming President, indeed in the US he has, for decades, got away with all manner of things.
Saying 'we never thought he stoop to this' won't cut it, he praised murderous Neo Nazis in 2017 FFS!

Even now there are various US political talking heads on screen saying the line about how 'this proves how strong our institutions are'.
That's nice, however perhaps a less flowery way to look at it, me I think they are looking the wrong way down a telescope.
And yes, we have noticed, as have I think, I hope, the majority of Americans, the kid gloves these rioters were dealt with, compared all too often with peaceful demos by organisations/groups who have no intention of overturning elections, if anything often they are having to protest (again) for the right to vote as well as a clear and lethal racial bias from the police.
A BLM protest where some criminal idiots attach themselves have been treated very differently from a clear attempt to overturn democracy from hostile, violent white thugs.

And the instigator is still walking around? No 25th Amendment?
Oh but you broke away from a Monarchy (in the 18th Century), well now you have your own, with a chunk of your populace who think he has a divine right to rule.
(And the Monarchy broken away from did not even have executive power by the 18th Century, unlike the one the GOP has created).
 
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Lilienthal
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:53 am

N583JB wrote:
I truly believe that Donald Trump is an evil person and will go down as the worst President of all time. What a horrid man.


History is going to be brutal on Trump and he deserves every bit of it.

All the evidence is out in the open. The lies, the deceit, the insults, the hypocrisy, the mind-blowing incompetence, the glaring symptoms of psychological impairment. Back in the day, people could call a TV-exec, pressure a newspaper owner, make some tapes disappear. Not Trump. He fired it all out into the world himself. Every day. Official documents, Videos, personal tweets, photos, recordings, etc. All out there, saved in the digital sphere for eternity, unless you'd simultaneously burn down every data center in the world, good luck with that...

The underlying forces that enabled Trump - the constant decline of the middle class and growing social and financial inequality - have their origins in the Regan administration and were worsened by the Bush family and especially Clinton. But that doesn't save Trump from the title of worst President in US history. You wouldn't know where to start and where to end with this pathetic man, it's not even a competition...

The real challenge for the US is making sure that Trump is going to stay the worst President of all time.
 
94717
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:56 am

If this happens in any other country USA media would have called it a coup. A failed one.

If it happens in USA what is it called?
 
ltbewr
Topic Author
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:09 am

There needs to be a through investigation by Congressional committees to consider revisions to existing and create new laws in response to the abuses, malfeasance in particular as to Covid-19 and the riot of Jan. 6th in DC, of Trump as President and his maladministration as well as make criminal referrals for action by the Biden Administration's DOJ.
The people of the USA in the 1960's turned against the racists trying to prevent Black persons from their civil rights after the video of the violent attacks by police and locals killed and attempted to kill protesters, in particular in Selma, AL. January 6th and what happened and televised around the world of the riot, the insurrection, the attempted coup in DC and with smaller violent acts of 'protesters' in the country must be a similar turning point to end the right wing hate in this country.
 
cpd
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:17 am

olle wrote:
If this happens in any other country USA media would have called it a coup. A failed one.

If it happens in USA what is it called?


Stopping the steal? :duck:

Quoting some old bat interviewed on a news channel...
 
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sebolino
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:27 am

I can see many long-term sentences coming.
These idiots thought they could do that because they don't like the result of an election ? I'm not sure they will like the 20 next years in a federal prison.
 
GDB
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:33 am

ltbewr wrote:
There needs to be a through investigation by Congressional committees to consider revisions to existing and create new laws in response to the abuses, malfeasance in particular as to Covid-19 and the riot of Jan. 6th in DC, of Trump as President and his maladministration as well as make criminal referrals for action by the Biden Administration's DOJ.
The people of the USA in the 1960's turned against the racists trying to prevent Black persons from their civil rights after the video of the violent attacks by police and locals killed and attempted to kill protesters, in particular in Selma, AL. January 6th and what happened and televised around the world of the riot, the insurrection, the attempted coup in DC and with smaller violent acts of 'protesters' in the country must be a similar turning point to end the right wing hate in this country.


I agree and hope that will be the result from this day of shame.
Reputation matters, no real trust without it, in the 1960's the images on TV also had the effect of handing a major PR coup to the nation the US was then in a worldwide struggle with to gain influence in the Cold War, mostly new ones with brown skinned populations.
Yesterday was a clear act of sedition that was and is still being incited, though Trump is now mealy mouthing a bit just to perhaps avoid being 25th'd.
All the more reason to do it then.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am

Lilienthal wrote:
N583JB wrote:
I truly believe that Donald Trump is an evil person and will go down as the worst President of all time. What a horrid man.


History is going to be brutal on Trump and he deserves every bit of it.


A statement by Trump begs to differ!

"I have always said we would continue our fight to ensure that only legal votes were counted. While this represents the end of the greatest first term in presidential history, it’s only the beginning of our fight to Make America Great Again"
https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/congress-electoral-college-vote-count-2021/h_1de6fb6d18c8f3395f135125e6cd849c
 
art
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 am

M564038 wrote:
There are no greater crime in a democracy than attacking democracy itself.


Good observation. It was a relief to see some democratically elected politicians standing up to defend democracy yesterday.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:50 am

art wrote:
M564038 wrote:
There are no greater crime in a democracy than attacking democracy itself.


Good observation. It was a relief to see some democratically elected politicians standing up to defend democracy yesterday.


The democratic, constitutionally defined process was completed and those that don't like the result can whine and cry all they want.

However, an even stronger message could have been sent if all those objections had been dropped and the EC votes approved unanimously. That would have said loudly and clearly that the democratic process cannot be overturned by violence. But I understand that some politicians will not put country ahead of their own personal careers.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:09 am

Republicans love to point out that Democrats never wanted to work with Trump and that protesting and objecting to EC votes is simply a taste of their own medicine. But ever since Trump went down the escalators and spewed out his vitriol, we knew that this would happen sooner or later. This is why Trump should have never been allowed to be sworn in. These are the kind of people he loves to embolden, the ones who believe anything they’re told, blame their woes on others, and attempt to force their will when things don’t go their way.

States duly elected Trump. But the EC was meant to stop this kind of person from taking office. It was very upsetting to see domestic terrorists swarm Congress at the urging/encouragement of Trump...it was even more upsetting seeing GOP members of Congress suddenly do a 180 and suddenly be like “oh...this went too far”, after years of deriding Democrats who told them that Trump and his supporters were dangerous. It took their lives being in potential jeopardy for most of them to come to their senses. Sen Loeffler was applauded after, in a subdued manner, she expressed that she would no longer object to the certificate of her own state...why did it take the mob to tone her down? And why, if fraud was SUCH a major concern, did many simply give up on the issue? Grandstanding.

I sincerely hope that those who destroyed property, who fought with police (though the police pretty much escorted them inside), and forced their way in are given their day with justice. I hope that Senators Cruz and Hawley (along with the 11 others who were going to initially object) are haunted by this (especially Cruz and Hawley who clearly have presidential aspirations). And I especially hope that states like PA, AZ, and GA begin leaving the GOP in droves, given that the party believes in states’ rights but only when it’s convenient for them to do so.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:10 am

olle wrote:
If this happens in any other country USA media would have called it a coup. A failed one.

If it happens in USA what is it called?

Patriots proudly exercising their First Amendment rights.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:12 am

marcelh wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Don’t these people have jobs? The average American doesn’t have time for this crap.

70 million average Americans voted for Trump....


For Pete Sake, he was referring to the mob who stormed the capital building.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:25 am

Aaron747 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:

The truth will come out that it was disguised Antifa that led the break in to the Capital.


Mmmmyeah how about ‘nah’. Even Andy Ngo reported that it wasn’t Antifa.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... ssion=true




Every day since the most legitimate election in US history: "If you guys do not start buying our ridiculous ballot fantasy, get ready for Civil War. We got gunz!"

After half a day of trying it and seeing up close and personal how much Americans will not continue to tolerate their sort: "Um, uh, er, it was someone else! False flag, yeah, that thing. We are cool right? Please say yes!..."

These toads are pitiful. Hilarious, but pitiful.

scbriml wrote:

If only she'd followed the instructions of the officer, this wouldn't have happened. That's what you'd both say if the police shot a black man dead on the street.


Or if they are asleep in their own home...

As for Ashli Babbit, a quick look through her YouTube history shows a very excitable and easily triggered fan of fascism.

olle wrote:
If this happens in any other country USA media would have called it a coup. A failed one.

If it happens in USA what is it called?


In the case, about the most pathetic gathering of illiterate unemployables since 45's most recent rally? I guess you could call it an attempted coup. But I feel like that is incredibly flattering to that herd of fools...
 
Palop
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:49 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:29 am

seb146 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2 weeks time, when Biden takes power, the world will draw a line under whatever Trump has done and pledge friendship again
For all its faults, America is greatly admired around the world as a beacon of freedom and democracy - the world has not forgotten all the good deeds of the USA

Dream on.... about 70 million people voted for Trump and the world has seen that. And about the good deeds... you mean “protecting US interests”


The majority of people voted for Hillary in 2016. What is your point? The ELECTORAL COLLEGE decided that Biden got more votes this year. The Constitution decided that. IIRC, in 2016, you all DEMANDED that we all bow to the king because Hillary got more of the popular vote. This time around YOUR guy lost both the Electoral College vote AND the popular vote.

But, go ahead and redo the vote. Biden won. Get over it. He is our new president. Get over it. He is OUR president. Bow to his will. Isn't that what you all said in 2016?

The usual answer is that the popular vote doesn’t count, only the EV. When it’s pointed out that the EV vote wasn’t close, the disingenuous answer is usually that the EV was close to 50-50 in a few crucial swing states and therefore the country is split 50-50.
 
GDB
Posts: 14408
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:31 am

sincerely hope that those who destroyed property, who fought with police (though the police pretty much escorted them inside), and forced their way in are given their day with justice. I hope that Senators Cruz and Hawley (along with the 11 others who were going to initially object) are haunted by this (especially Cruz and Hawley who clearly have presidential aspirations). And I especially hope that states like PA, AZ, and GA begin leaving the GOP in droves, given that the party believes in states’ rights but only when it’s convenient for them to do so.

Good point, there are images and video of some of the cops removing barriers, encouraging and even taking selfies with the rioters.
That too is sedition, they as well as the rioters charged and the politicians who incited (not just Trump either) have to answer for it and when convicted (ample visual evidence of course), end up not in some Club Fed but an appropriate facility for such a serious crime against the US. A Supermax, or even just for the irony perhaps, Gitmo.
The boil must be lanced, there has to be consequences.
 
User avatar
mad99
Posts: 1287
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:35 am

Only 4 dead!

Didn’t this almost happen in Germany a few month ago? I wonder how they prevented it from happing.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6191
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:37 am

There were probably good people on both sides...........

....when the looting starts, the shooting starts....

Well. Duh. Right-wingers are treated leniently by the police.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1613
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:38 am

art wrote:
Am I right in thinking that Mr Cruz and associates have dug their own political graves?


Ted Cruz was the only semi high profile person to do it. I thought he committed political suicide back in 2016 when he ran for president and lost to Trump. What a fiasco that was, but he got re-elected in 2018 to the senate narrowly. I don't know if people will remember when election time comes around again.
Last edited by DLFREEBIRD on Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 6191
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:40 am

mad99 wrote:
Only 4 dead!

Didn’t this almost happen in Germany a few month ago? I wonder how they prevented it from happing.


Yes, at a protest against the coronavirus measures in August. There were fewer intruders then.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1613
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:42 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
Lindsey Graham's speech was striking.
Nice to see he finally grew a spine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHkYlRm_XM


probably, because he thought he was going to die.
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2691
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:53 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
Lindsey Graham's speech was striking.
Nice to see he finally grew a spine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHkYlRm_XM


probably, because he thought he was going to die.


I thought he was about to break down and cry really.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:00 pm

This is the most recent culmination of the Republican Party devolving into effectively a fascist party over the last several decades.

The only reason the GOP has stepped back from the brink is because the coup they had been pushing for just fizzled out; Other than that they would have been fine with it, as the impeachment vote has already demonstrated.

A sense of civic responsibility is seen as a hindrance to republican politicians nowadays, and undermining democratic institutions to gain or preserve republican power are generally accepted goals.

That is what the world has seen here, and that the USA have only narrowly avoided devolving into fascism completely, and from all apearances only temporarily. Goons like Hawley will remain on the same course even so, and they can count on supporters and colleagues to be fine with that.

The USA is no shining beacon of democracy, it is a state on the brink of failure, with a large proportion of its population fully beholden to destructive lies and ready and willing to tear it all down.

None of this was surprising; It has been a long development and it draws on deep, poisonous roots.

Will the Biden presidency be a turning point or just a temporary reprieve while the GOP continues to radicalize itself for its next coup attempt? That is the question we in other countries need to consider, and we can't rely on the USA as a stability anchor of the western world – much less the free world – any more.
 
Jetty
Posts: 1403
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:13 pm

scbriml wrote:
If only she'd followed the instructions of the officer, this wouldn't have happened. That's what you'd both say if the police shot a black man dead on the street.

That’s most often true as in this case. That doesn’t justify police killing someone for unlawful entry though.

I'd also point out your orange hero said "When the looting starts, the shooting starts". So there's that. Karma's a bitch.

:lol: He’s not my hero. And what was the reaction to his call for violence? The US is on a downwards spiral and needs more consists leaders, not people who make fun of her death while they would be outraged if she had different political believes.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1579
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:15 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
marcelh wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Don’t these people have jobs? The average American doesn’t have time for this crap.

70 million average Americans voted for Trump....


For Pete Sake, he was referring to the mob who stormed the capital building.

So? Those weren’t average Americans?
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 10417
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:16 pm

marcelh wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
marcelh wrote:
70 million average Americans voted for Trump....


For Pete Sake, he was referring to the mob who stormed the capital building.

So? Those weren’t average Americans?


One would hope that the Qanon Shaman is not an average American.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8717
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:22 pm

Palop wrote:
The usual answer is that the popular vote doesn’t count, only the EV. When it’s pointed out that the EV vote wasn’t close, the disingenuous answer is usually that the EV was close to 50-50 in a few crucial swing states and therefore the country is split 50-50.

Supporters of the EC are an extreme case of wanting to have their cake and eat it.

Popular vote doesn’t count; only the EC vote. Unless it’s not tight (and given that Trump insisted that 306 is a landslide, which it isn’t, but whatever), then we have to look at individual states and see how tight the margin was in each one. Unless the tight margins aren’t enough to be overturned in recounts. Then we must discard the votes.

This is all the more reason to get rid of the EC altogether or reform the rules such that each state is truly balanced with each other (i.e. each EC elector represent the same amount of people) and votes can only be discarded if another slate is duly certified by the state’s authorities. Last night no competing slates were introduced so the 1876 Compromise rules did not apply and there would be no reason to object to the certificates from the states. And the kabuki procedures are meaningless; we saw in real time as electors cast their votes and authorities certified them. Can we get rid of the Joint Session portion to “count” votes we already know are legit and verified in regular form and order? Just imagine how ordinary the day might have been yesterday without a Joint Session dragged on until 3am EST to confirm what the November election already confirmed and which the December meeting of electors reconfirmed, with visual proof that all 51 jurisdictions signed off without any issues.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8717
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:25 pm

Jetty wrote:
That doesn’t justify police killing someone for unlawful entry though.

Well, if the cop felt threatened, he was justified. You know...like how they are when unarmed black men are pummeled to the ground or seen running away and are still shot...

Kinda seems that Blue Lives Matter, but only when Blacks protest against the police; when it’s Whites, then Blue Lives don’t matter too much.
 
Jetty
Posts: 1403
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:26 pm

Klaus wrote:
This is the most recent culmination of the Republican Party devolving into effectively a fascist party over the last several decades.

The only reason the GOP has stepped back from the brink is because the coup they had been pushing for just fizzled out; Other than that they would have been fine with it, as the impeachment vote has already demonstrated.

A sense of civic responsibility is seen as a hindrance to republican politicians nowadays, and undermining democratic institutions to gain or preserve republican power are generally accepted goals.

That is what the world has seen here, and that the USA have only narrowly avoided devolving into fascism completely, and from all apearances only temporarily. Goons like Hawley will remain on the same course even so, and they can count on supporters and colleagues to be fine with that.

The USA is no shining beacon of democracy, it is a state on the brink of failure, with a large proportion of its population fully beholden to destructive lies and ready and willing to tear it all down.

None of this was surprising; It has been a long development and it draws on deep, poisonous roots.

Will the Biden presidency be a turning point or just a temporary reprieve while the GOP continues to radicalize itself for its next coup attempt? That is the question we in other countries need to consider, and we can't rely on the USA as a stability anchor of the western world – much less the free world – any more.

You give too much credit to the party, in big part they just moved to the direction where most voters are, as proven by Trump receiving more votes than anyone before him 4 after years of getting to know him. A president only has a small influence on the people: Trump didn’t create Trumpists, they already existed and had similar beliefs.

Someone like Trump wouldn’t stand a chance in most civilized democracies. That the US is considered a shining beacon of democracy by some is only due to its size anyway, there are and always have been countries with a better functioning and longer tradition of democracy.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:27 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
There were probably good people on both sides...........


They were mostly good Capitol visitors came to witness the historic event of counting electoral college, some visitors pushed through the security [sic] theater, everyone else just followed, unknowingly, when hallways got overcrowded they tried to escape through windows, being old building window panels just crumbled, some escaped scaling walls.
Last edited by dtw2hyd on Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Jetty
Posts: 1403
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:28 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Jetty wrote:
That doesn’t justify police killing someone for unlawful entry though.

Well, if the cop felt threatened, he was justified. You know...like how they are when unarmed black men are pummeled to the ground or seen running away and are still shot...

Kinda seems that Blue Lives Matter, but only when Blacks protest against the police; when it’s Whites, then Blue Lives don’t matter too much.

And you now continue with the same hypocrisy you blame them for. :roll:

How about just condemning all unwarranted deaths? People justifying deaths as long it’s the right person who dies really isn’t helpful in a country with 400 million guns and murder rates like the USA.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1613
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:33 pm

I am expect Trump Administration top staff members, to start resigning tomorrow. I think they are going to have to.
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 5814
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:35 pm

Jetty wrote:
That doesn’t justify police killing someone for unlawful entry though.

I thought unlawful entry is something one can response with gunfire in the US?
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