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Tugger
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:33 pm

GDB wrote:
There is evidence of this 'restraint' being as much tacit support and aid as anything to do with policing protocols.
As the pics of the disabled, peaceful protestors and their willingness to do Trump's dirty work for that upside down Bible photo op this year, amply demonstrate.

No, I disagree. Do not believe that was at all in any significant way, why the rioters were allowed in.

Peaceful protesters in fact plan for those photo ops, they media coverage and what it looks like is important. And equally there are pics of the capital police also arresting some of yesterdays invaders. The capital police do what they are told and arrest those they are told to arrest, and the clearing of the park was on the orders of Trump.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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casinterest
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:37 pm

Twitter clip of the "We are not a Threat" crowd overwhelming the barricades and pushing through.

https://twitter.com/PhilipinDC/status/1 ... 7685800961
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
LMP737
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:46 pm

GDB wrote:
There is evidence of this 'restraint' being as much tacit support and aid as anything to do with policing protocols.
As the pics of the disabled, peaceful protestors and their willingness to do Trump's dirty work for that upside down Bible photo op this year, amply demonstrate.


Yes, holding up a book he has never read in front of a church he does not attend. Like a lot of Americans I could not help but notice the difference in police presence between BLM demonstrations last year in DC and yesterday. Then there's Trumps view on how people should be treated in regards to federal property. People who don't support him, ten years minimum in prison. People who do, we love you and please go home.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:51 pm

The crowd and rioters yesterday were dumb, unquestioning and easily mislead, unthinking and deluded people. There are a lot of Trumpers that are like that. Just wanting to parrot stuff and believe lies and just not engage their brain. They want to follow and their leader was behind them all the way (figuratively and in reality).

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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sebolino
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:54 pm

I can't wait to see these morons crying for mercy after what they've done. This has to stop now.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/07 ... n-as-today
 
NIKV69
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:59 pm

Tugger wrote:
There are calls to investigate the "failure of the Capital Police" however I don't know what better could have been done. One life lost was too many quite frankly, and I am not sure the idea that a more determined police presence would have deterred the crowd and rioters is correct. I guess a very strong police line and barricades further out may have changed things but this is 20/20 hindsight, no one thought the crowd would do what it did. And more bloodshed, opening fire on the crowd would have been, in my opinion, the worst possible thing to do.

This was bad, very bad, but it was not as bad as it could have been and it was not open warfare between the US government and US citizens, which would have been far worse. Honestly, the "we are out manned so we need to not fight and instead protect and fallback" concept to me seems like the right thing to do.

I don't want an armed force of overwhelming superiority out in front of the Capital. I don't want that for the many protests and gatherings that are done fairly regularly. I want an open and accessible capital with reasonable protection. This was really on the rioters (and Trump's) shoulders more than the police, at least in my opinion.

And yes I have heard stories of police taking selfies with protesters etc. which is wrong and will be dealt with harshly. I am speaking to the overall action of being over run vs using force to resist and fight.

Tugg


I am shocked at how easily they gained entry. You make good points but in that situation with all the lawmakers present you can't let anyone make entry. There was too much of a unknown and even though they weren't armed they should have been pushed back. I am a huge believer in non lethal rounds and believe they should be used in this situation at first when they gained entry, As for the USAF Vet that was killed I am actually surprised at how she is being hailed as a hero. Though I honor her service she made a huge error yesterday and I saw the video as she was shot. She was in front of a line of people climbing through a window next to a door at the time crap was hitting the fan so the point of view of police you can't say anything but it is a justified shooting.

I am also kind of wondering why they didn't clear the whole area more quickly. Yes the whole thing was deescalated quite fast but to allow people to linger is just asking for trouble.

You are going to get an armed force around the capital now sadly, not sure if it will be permanent but once the congress gets going things will be probably get ratcheted up again.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:04 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
There are calls to investigate the "failure of the Capital Police" however I don't know what better could have been done. One life lost was too many quite frankly, and I am not sure the idea that a more determined police presence would have deterred the crowd and rioters is correct. I guess a very strong police line and barricades further out may have changed things but this is 20/20 hindsight, no one thought the crowd would do what it did. And more bloodshed, opening fire on the crowd would have been, in my opinion, the worst possible thing to do.

This was bad, very bad, but it was not as bad as it could have been and it was not open warfare between the US government and US citizens, which would have been far worse. Honestly, the "we are out manned so we need to not fight and instead protect and fallback" concept to me seems like the right thing to do.

I don't want an armed force of overwhelming superiority out in front of the Capital. I don't want that for the many protests and gatherings that are done fairly regularly. I want an open and accessible capital with reasonable protection. This was really on the rioters (and Trump's) shoulders more than the police, at least in my opinion.

And yes I have heard stories of police taking selfies with protesters etc. which is wrong and will be dealt with harshly. I am speaking to the overall action of being over run vs using force to resist and fight.

Tugg


I am shocked at how easily they gained entry. You make good points but in that situation with all the lawmakers present you can't let anyone make entry. There was too much of a unknown and even though they weren't armed they should have been pushed back. I am a huge believer in non lethal rounds and believe they should be used in this situation at first when they gained entry, As for the USAF Vet that was killed I am actually surprised at how she is being hailed as a hero. Though I honor her service she made a huge error yesterday and I saw the video as she was shot. She was in front of a line of people climbing through a window next to a door at the time crap was hitting the fan so the point of view of police you can't say anything but it is a justified shooting.

I am also kind of wondering why they didn't clear the whole area more quickly. Yes the whole thing was deescalated quite fast but to allow people to linger is just asking for trouble.

You are going to get an armed force around the capital now sadly, not sure if it will be permanent but once the congress gets going things will be probably get ratcheted up again.

This is a very delicate dance for law enforcement, especially in light of all of the negative attention they have received in the events of the summer of 2020. Too much force and you feed the narrative of a stolen election, etc etc which perhaps they figured MAY have incited a larger problem than what they were expecting. Obviously, the results were different. It was likely a no-win situation. Put a ring of strong barriers around the Capitol, and Trump could have fed the mill about how Nancy Pelosi and all the other traitors didn't want you to see what was going on (never mind the TV coverage, but since when have facts been of any concern to President Trump).
 
tommy1808
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:07 pm

casinterest wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Trump's main objective is to prove he didn't lose the election, it was stolen, and a considerable amount of people believe him. He will be telling this story like grandpa at dinner table for several years.

The best thing for Biden can do is to ignore him.


No. That is not the way. Trump has a willing cult that listens and hangs on his word. There are also multiple media outlets that provide the means and have the profit motive to reinforce the lie. Trump has to be confronted as a liar, along with the media empires that promote it.


:checkmark:
"Confronted" ain't enough.... either LOTS of people end up in prison, or this will be the new norm for every political disagreement. Right wing domestic terrorists currently feel untouchable. It only took 10 years from the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923 to full on dictatorship. History tends to repeat itself. The clock is ticking.

Best regards
Thomas
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luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:13 pm

For anybody who thinks this will have actually changed Trump, he has:

Reportedly banned Pence's chief of staff from the White House: https://news.yahoo.com/report-pences-ch ... 05140.html

And withdrawn the nomination of his acting Homeland Security Secretary for a permanent position, which was unlikely to proceed but he withdrew it shortly after the Secretary called on Trump to condemn the violence: https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... iolence-at
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:25 pm

seahawk wrote:
The reaction by the police force was correct. If they would have been more aggressive it could have been the start of a civil war.


Therein lies a fundamental American injustice. White Americans will never get the same treatment that was once generously afforded to the Natives. Whites men never to fight for the right to vote. As long as the Great White Male has a better relation to the police forces than minorities, the injustice is perpetuated.

Justice is blind and rests on the principle that everybody has to be treated the same, regardless of the outcome.
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luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:26 pm

Twice now, President Trump has let this country down when it needed a leader. He had an opportunity at the beginning of the coronavirus epidemic, but he could not keep his mouth shut and it cost him re-election. Then, yesterday, he had an opportunity to be a leader again, and he could not keep his mouth shut or step up to the plate. THAT, is what so many of us objected to from the start -- that this man is inherently self-centered, self-absorbed, and ultimately his prime concern is the headline. We can quibble all day about how effective such measures may actually be on the ground, but it is clear that in moments of uncertainty, a calm, effective leader knows when to put up or shut up. Trump, clearly, does not.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:38 pm

I heard one of the Trump rioters, accidently tazze himself and died. I have not heard the circumstances of how the other two died from medical emergencies. Does anyone else know?
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:40 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I heard one of the Trump rioters, accidently tazze himself and died. I have not heard the circumstances of how the other two died from medical emergencies. Does anyone else know?

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/07 ... g-the-dead

Heart attack was one of them
 
alfa164
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:44 pm

luckyone wrote:
Twice now, President Trump has let this country down when it needed a leader. He had an opportunity at the beginning of the coronavirus epidemic, but he could not keep his mouth shut and it cost him re-election. Then, yesterday, he had an opportunity to be a leader again, and he could not keep his mouth shut or step up to the plate. THAT, is what so many of us objected to from the start -- that this man is inherently self-centered, self-absorbed, and ultimately his prime concern is the headline. We can quibble all day about how effective such measures may actually be on the ground, but it is clear that in moments of uncertainty, a calm, effective leader knows when to put up or shut up. Trump, clearly, does not.


:checkmark: . . I would say more than twice, but there is no doubt these two examples - all within a 10-month period - will be the ones we remember the most. History will judge Trump's presidency as a misguided experiment, and classes will be taught on how allowing a narcissistic, delusional demagogue to achieve the country's highest office is a recipe for failure. Even to those who believe Washington is too dominated by life-long politicians, it should serve as a cautionary tale about the cult of personality and the riskiness of electing an outsider.

There will be some who still worship and adore him, but they will fade away as time goes on. He is neither a saint nor a martyr. He is a hollow man, with no soul and no empathy or feelings. He is the one thing he would never admit to being: he is a loser.

.
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I have decided to be cremated....
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:45 pm

At this point, the Republican Party is over. The Republicans used to be the anti slavery party. Now it's just the Trump Party, Lincoln Party, and I don't know what to call the likes of Romney, and others who don't fit in either branch of these two groups. But, it's nice to see a patch of honest people who have integrity still roaming what's left of the Republican Party.
Last edited by DLFREEBIRD on Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:46 pm

Looks like the Cabinet is going to run and hide instead of invoking the 25th. Or at least that is what McConnell wants.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics ... index.html

His wife just resigned.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Tugger
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:48 pm

If Trumps pushing and forcing on changing the electorate votes is any example, I can't wait to see all the fraud and deceit he forced his tax attorneys to file. "Of course you can do this, have courage. You have to do it."

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
cpd
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:49 pm

luckyone wrote:
Twice now, President Trump has let this country down when it needed a leader. He had an opportunity at the beginning of the coronavirus epidemic, but he could not keep his mouth shut and it cost him re-election. Then, yesterday, he had an opportunity to be a leader again, and he could not keep his mouth shut or step up to the plate. THAT, is what so many of us objected to from the start -- that this man is inherently self-centered, self-absorbed, and ultimately his prime concern is the headline. We can quibble all day about how effective such measures may actually be on the ground, but it is clear that in moments of uncertainty, a calm, effective leader knows when to put up or shut up. Trump, clearly, does not.


But he kept the heads of the left spinning didn’t he?

That’s the line that was run even on this forum by a few people, some who’ve now become very sober in comparison after yesterday’s events.

It’s looking like Vice President and Trump are completely split, Pence is reportedly furious with Trump.

Somehow after this is all over they have to change up the election process to have more safeguards against such a lunatic of a candidate ever becoming leader again. The damage he has done is enormous.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:52 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
At this point, the Republican Party is over. The Republicans used to be the anti slavery party. Now it's just the Trump Party, Lincoln Party, and I don't know what to call the likes of Romney, and others who don't fit in either branch of these two groups. But, it's nice to see a patch of honest people who have integrity still roaming what's left of the Republican Party.

Good point.
I think I will now identify myself as a Lincoln Republican. Not "a Republican".

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
wingman
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:54 pm

casinterest wrote:
Looks like the Cabinet is going to run and hide instead of invoking the 25th. Or at least that is what McConnell wants.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics ... index.html

His wife just resigned.


The article says she came into the post "hoping to repair the nation's crumbling infrastructure". Too bad it was that porous excuse of a wall and not our bridges, roads and airports. Hey, at least Insane Clown Posse drove the national debt to $26T and we still live in a "First World Country". Repubs and Dems alike need to spend a month in Japan, Korea, Holland or Germany to see what a true first world country looks like.

Good job Elaine, you and your husband made some more millions aiding and abetting Donald Trump in his complete evisceration of America's values and social fabric. I applaud your chicken shit quitting in the last two weeks.
 
luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:56 pm

cpd wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Twice now, President Trump has let this country down when it needed a leader. He had an opportunity at the beginning of the coronavirus epidemic, but he could not keep his mouth shut and it cost him re-election. Then, yesterday, he had an opportunity to be a leader again, and he could not keep his mouth shut or step up to the plate. THAT, is what so many of us objected to from the start -- that this man is inherently self-centered, self-absorbed, and ultimately his prime concern is the headline. We can quibble all day about how effective such measures may actually be on the ground, but it is clear that in moments of uncertainty, a calm, effective leader knows when to put up or shut up. Trump, clearly, does not.


But he kept the heads of the left spinning didn’t he?

That’s the line that was run even on this forum by a few people, some who’ve now become very sober in comparison after yesterday’s events.

It’s looking like Vice President and Trump are completely split, Pence is reportedly furious with Trump.

Somehow after this is all over they have to change up the election process to have more safeguards against such a lunatic of a candidate ever becoming leader again. The damage he has done is enormous.

Well they should start by dismissing Ronna McDaniel. Both parties need to ensure that there is a better vetting process or some sort of requirement for candidates running on their ticket, and there needs to be, I don't know, a tree for candidates. We don't need 17 candidates who are all duplicates of each other up there on stage, which is how we wound up in this mess in the first place. Maybe someone can explain it, but for the life of me I cannot understand why they permit some people to run on their ticket. I get it, some people are nose holders, but there should still be some sort of fitness test. Similarly, I don't know why the DNC permits Bernie Sanders to run on the Democratic ticket for the convenience of the Presidential primaries, when he runs every other time as an independent.
 
GDB
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:58 pm

Tugger wrote:
GDB wrote:
There is evidence of this 'restraint' being as much tacit support and aid as anything to do with policing protocols.
As the pics of the disabled, peaceful protestors and their willingness to do Trump's dirty work for that upside down Bible photo op this year, amply demonstrate.

No, I disagree. Do not believe that was at all in any significant way, why the rioters were allowed in.

Peaceful protesters in fact plan for those photo ops, they media coverage and what it looks like is important. And equally there are pics of the capital police also arresting some of yesterdays invaders. The capital police do what they are told and arrest those they are told to arrest, and the clearing of the park was on the orders of Trump.

Tugg


Sure, some tried to do their job but is it at all usual in these situations for others to pose for selfies with rioters? The images are out there, as are others lifting barriers. Right Wing extremist infiltration of law enforcement has been a FBI concern after all.
On a larger scale, they knew the crowds were coming, were being agitated and days in advance.
Others higher up were pulling strings too.
 
cpd
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:58 pm

casinterest wrote:
Joe Scarborough has called for the arrest of Trump on his show,

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5330 ... surrection

“That’s insurrection against the United States of America and if Donald Trump Jr., Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump are not arrested today for insurrection and taken to jail and booked — and if the Capitol Hill police do not go through every video and look at the face of every person that invaded our Capitol and if they are not arrested and brought to justice today — then we are no longer a nation of laws and we only tell people they can do this again,” Scarborough said.



And here is why they need to go to jail .

https://www.newsweek.com/45-percent-rep ... D=ref_fark
Almost half of Republicans support the pro-Trump protesters who stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, putting them at odds with Democrats who largely oppose the actions of the demonstrators, a poll has found.

The survey released by YouGov on Thursday morning found that 45 percent of Republican voters backed the attack on the Capitol building, while 43 percent said they "strongly or somewhat" opposed the protesters' behavior.

Six percent of Republicans were unsure while a further 6 percent said they were unaware of the events.


These 45% need to understand that what happened yesterday was wrong. These folks have been lied to by right wing pundits for so long they have no basis in reality or law and order anymore.


This is quite right. It’s the only way to keep democracy going.

Then the whole electoral processes must change to prevent this happening again and particularly to prevent the cries of “they stole the election”. This will take the efforts of a lot of people to come up with a robust solution which cannot be attacked by the Trumpists.

It would need to be a working group of many electoral officials from around the world and those in the USA.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:03 pm

What chance Trump does not show up on the 20th for the handover, or refuses to shake hands? :hissyfit:
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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NIKV69
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:11 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
What chance Trump does not show up on the 20th for the handover, or refuses to shake hands? :hissyfit:


He will be gone long before then.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:13 pm

zkojq wrote:
cpd wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
The truth will come out that it was disguised Antifa that led the break in to the Capital.


Is Jake Angeli disguised Antifa then? This is him:

Image


Wait, is it me or is he not wearing any pants?


He probably dropped his pants to pee on our constitution. This guy has not been arrested. Last I heard he was flying back to Arizona. The only good news is AA stop serving liquor on it's flight to and from DCA. They are missing out on a whole lot of revenue, but it's the right thing to do since none of these people were arrested.
 
tu204
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:15 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
China and Russia must be loving it.


Maybe not loving to say per se. I just don't see the regular individuals making statements in defence of "peaceful protesters" like when shit happens in other countries. :roll:
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
petertenthije
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:16 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
What chance Trump does not show up on the 20th for the handover, or refuses to shake hands? :hissyfit:

Would Biden even want to shake hands? We are still in corona mode.

What chance Pence will throw a punch at Trump’s nose the second Biden’s officially inaugurated? And would the secret service even try to stop it?
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
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lugie
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:19 pm

This article presents an extremely concerning, but honestly not surprising to me if true, hypothesis as to how the Capitol Police (and DC law enforcement in general) got so easily overwhelmed yesterday.

Citing foreign intelligence analysts from NATO partner countries, this alleges that there must have been active marching orders against stopping the mob from entering the Capitol, which would make yesterday's events all part of a coordinated (if less-than-optimally planned) coup attempt - Trump riles his people up, co-conspirators in law enforcement do not stop them from entering the Capitol, and once inside they are to wreak havoc and put an end to the count of the legitimately cast EC votes.

From the article:
One NATO source set the stage, using terms more commonly used to describe unrest in developing countries.

"The defeated president gives a speech to a group of supporters where he tells them he was robbed of the election, denounces his own administration's members and party as traitors, and tells his supporters to storm the building where the voting is being held," the NATO intelligence official said.

"The supporters, many dressed in military attire and waving revolutionary-style flags, then storm the building where the federal law-enforcement agencies controlled by the current president do not establish a security cordon, and the protesters quickly overwhelm the last line of police.

"The president then makes a public statement to the supporters attacking the Capitol that he loves them but doesn't really tell them to stop," the official said. "Today I am briefing my government that we believe with a reasonable level of certainty that Donald Trump attempted a coup that failed when the system did not buckle.


This needs to be investigated and I would not be surprised if it, at least in parts, turned out to be true.
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Tugger
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:21 pm

tu204 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
China and Russia must be loving it.


Maybe not loving to say per se. I just don't see the regular individuals making statements in defence of "peaceful protesters" like when shit happens in other countries. :roll:

But importantly those people, even rioters, aren't beaten mercilessly, arrested without due process, nor do they become enemies of the state. They will face the consequences of their actions, legal and reputational of course (morons). But can you imagine what would have been done to them in Russia or China (actually you don't have to imagine)?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:21 pm

seahawk wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
seahawk wrote:
They are not terrorists, Trump is. They believe that they are defending democracy based on the lies by Trump, the GOP and right wing media about election fraud.
By your logic, the folks that flew the planes at 9/11 where not terrorists either. Only OBL for inciting them to do so. Besides, weren't the republicans always the party of personal responsibility?


I have to disagree, as OBL never had any form of legitimation. Trump on the other hand still is the president of the United States and to make matters worse quite a few leading figures of the Republican party have been repeating the same lies. This is not terrorism, this is a coup attempt.


OBL was legitimized. Look at all the people who hung on his every word and who he helped. Now, look at all the MAGA flags and the gun waving people who will do anything for their leader.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:23 pm

lugie wrote:
This article presents an extremely concerning, but honestly not surprising to me if true, hypothesis as to how the Capitol Police (and DC law enforcement in general) got so easily overwhelmed yesterday.

Citing foreign intelligence analysts from NATO partner countries, this alleges that there must have been active marching orders against stopping the mob from entering the Capitol, which would make yesterday's events all part of a coordinated (if less-than-optimally planned) coup attempt - Trump riles his people up, co-conspirators in law enforcement do not stop them from entering the Capitol, and once inside they are to wreak havoc and put an end to the count of the legitimately cast EC votes.

From the article:
One NATO source set the stage, using terms more commonly used to describe unrest in developing countries.

"The defeated president gives a speech to a group of supporters where he tells them he was robbed of the election, denounces his own administration's members and party as traitors, and tells his supporters to storm the building where the voting is being held," the NATO intelligence official said.

"The supporters, many dressed in military attire and waving revolutionary-style flags, then storm the building where the federal law-enforcement agencies controlled by the current president do not establish a security cordon, and the protesters quickly overwhelm the last line of police.

"The president then makes a public statement to the supporters attacking the Capitol that he loves them but doesn't really tell them to stop," the official said. "Today I am briefing my government that we believe with a reasonable level of certainty that Donald Trump attempted a coup that failed when the system did not buckle.


This needs to be investigated and I would not be surprised if it, at least in parts, turned out to be true.


If anyone has any doubts, there are side-by-side pictures of this riot vs. BLM protests on the steps of the Capital.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:24 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
zkojq wrote:
cpd wrote:

Is Jake Angeli disguised Antifa then? This is him:

Image


Wait, is it me or is he not wearing any pants?


He probably dropped his pants to pee on our constitution. This guy has not been arrested. Last I heard he was flying back to Arizona. The only good news is AA stop serving liquor on it's flight to and from DCA. They are missing out on a whole lot of revenue, but it's the right thing to do since none of these people were arrested.


Aren't these the same people who whined and cried that kneeling during the National Anthem is disrespectful and America hating?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bennett123
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:24 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55578191

Some strong words here.

Hope that people are listening.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:25 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
What chance Trump does not show up on the 20th for the handover, or refuses to shake hands? :hissyfit:


He will be gone long before then.


I don't trust Trump at all, He probably, invite the same mob (since they weren't arrested) to spend the night before at the WH and tell them to burn down the house.

Trump needs to be in a padded cell.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:30 pm

seb146 wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
zkojq wrote:

Wait, is it me or is he not wearing any pants?


He probably dropped his pants to pee on our constitution. This guy has not been arrested. Last I heard he was flying back to Arizona. The only good news is AA stop serving liquor on it's flight to and from DCA. They are missing out on a whole lot of revenue, but it's the right thing to do since none of these people were arrested.


Aren't these the same people who whined and cried that kneeling during the National Anthem is disrespectful and America hating?


they just mimic whatever Trump says.
 
JJJ
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:34 pm

cpd wrote:
. The damage he has done is enormous.


Putin, Xi, Kim, etc. are rubbing their hands in pure glee.
 
acavpics
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:35 pm

Social media companies need to take more action in order to get false information off the web. I’ve reported dozens of Instagram posts about “voter fraud” and “stop the steal.” Latelay and NONE have been removed.

I’ve sent them feedback regarding this. Let’s hope that they at least read it. Shutting down Trumps account alone is not enough. They need to shut down the accounts with millions of followers that support and promote his violence inciting lies.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:12 pm

Here is a nuttier condemnation, kinda right yet wrong on many levels.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/pence-s ... nda-devine

The key thing so many Trumpies fail to truly grasp is the fact that he was and IS bad, for the party and the Presidency. He was never good or the right person for the job. He was always wrong, it wasn't the "never Trump"ers that were wrong. And now so many Trumpers wail and cry "Why!", still staying blind to their own failures. Failures to bring people together, to listen and try to understand, to not just cast "others" as the enemy, to not celebrate bombastic and vitriolic language as "telling it like it is", not want to work "Across the aisle" and instead preferring to "taste libruls tears" and the like.

Pathetic.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Tugger
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:43 pm

Trumps Executive Order means up to ten years prison time for the rioters that damaged the capitol.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/capito ... er-federal

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
SYRAVGEEK
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:53 pm

The sergeant at arms has submitted his resignation, Pelosi is saying Capital Police Chief is planning on doing the same. House is saying they'll go through with impeachment if Pence doesn't use the 25th. Elaine Chao (USDoT Secretary and just by coincidence Mitch Mcconnell's wife) has resigned, the first cabinet member to do so.
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:02 pm

luckyone wrote:
cpd wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Twice now, President Trump has let this country down when it needed a leader. He had an opportunity at the beginning of the coronavirus epidemic, but he could not keep his mouth shut and it cost him re-election. Then, yesterday, he had an opportunity to be a leader again, and he could not keep his mouth shut or step up to the plate. THAT, is what so many of us objected to from the start -- that this man is inherently self-centered, self-absorbed, and ultimately his prime concern is the headline. We can quibble all day about how effective such measures may actually be on the ground, but it is clear that in moments of uncertainty, a calm, effective leader knows when to put up or shut up. Trump, clearly, does not.


But he kept the heads of the left spinning didn’t he?

That’s the line that was run even on this forum by a few people, some who’ve now become very sober in comparison after yesterday’s events.

It’s looking like Vice President and Trump are completely split, Pence is reportedly furious with Trump.

Somehow after this is all over they have to change up the election process to have more safeguards against such a lunatic of a candidate ever becoming leader again. The damage he has done is enormous.

Well they should start by dismissing Ronna McDaniel. Both parties need to ensure that there is a better vetting process or some sort of requirement for candidates running on their ticket, and there needs to be, I don't know, a tree for candidates. We don't need 17 candidates who are all duplicates of each other up there on stage, which is how we wound up in this mess in the first place. Maybe someone can explain it, but for the life of me I cannot understand why they permit some people to run on their ticket. I get it, some people are nose holders, but there should still be some sort of fitness test. Similarly, I don't know why the DNC permits Bernie Sanders to run on the Democratic ticket for the convenience of the Presidential primaries, when he runs every other time as an independent.


I agree, why should the parties allow non-members switch parties just before filing for president in their party's primaries? Also the presidential primaries need to have preference voting. Large numbers of Republicans did not vote for Trump.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:25 pm

Well,
At least this Mob made it easy on the authorities.

https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-e ... ob-members

But already, news organizations and people active on social media have begun identifying some of those who played prominent roles in the unprecedented scene at the Capitol. One of the most prominent is Richard Barnett who was photographed with his feet up on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's desk. Afterwards, he proudly identified himself to New York Times reporter Matthew Rosenberg.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
SYRAVGEEK
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:34 pm

casinterest wrote:
Well,
At least this Mob made it easy on the authorities.

https://www.npr.org/san probably find and indentify someoneections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/07/954518782/law-enforcement-and-social-media-identifying-u-s-capitol-mob-members

But already, news organizations and people active on social media have begun identifying some of those who played prominent roles in the unprecedented scene at the Capitol. One of the most prominent is Richard Barnett who was photographed with his feet up on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's desk. Afterwards, he proudly identified himself to New York Times reporter Matthew Rosenberg.

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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:09 pm

c933103 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
That doesn’t justify police killing someone for unlawful entry though.

I thought unlawful entry is something one can response with gunfire in the US?


Google Castle Doctrine and become informed.
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Tugger
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:25 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
That doesn’t justify police killing someone for unlawful entry though.

I thought unlawful entry is something one can response with gunfire in the US?


Google Castle Doctrine and become informed.

And of course you can't leave out the fact that this person was shot by an officer of the law in the performance of their duty. Not merely a "castle doctrine" situation.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
FGITD
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:38 pm

I don't much care about traitors getting shot. Same reason I don't shed a tear for the confederacy.
 
SYRAVGEEK
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:41 pm

FGITD wrote:
I don't much care about traitors getting shot. Same reason I don't shed a tear for the confederacy.

They lost, both the Confederacy and the Trump Supporters.
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Grizzly410
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:43 pm

Dear US of America, I have to say it was shocking.

In a way because of picture like the confederate flag carried casualy inside Capitole. Also for the hugely symbolics efffets such an attack have on my limited vision of what are the USA. Aftermath is nothing to compare but my first impression when it was happening was a 11-09 like, couldn't believe what I was seeing.
https://twitter.com/samwineburg/status/1346934956203810816?s=20

The other way I'm shocked is that, as someone else mentioned those poor guys are absolute weirdos, and it's true. The jamiroquai-like is publishing 1h30 monologue videos full of conspiracies and other crap, the trump-for-president flag-holder dumb enough to riot the Capitole with is professional lanyard and badge visible on his chest to parade-rioting there.... [url]
https://twitter.com/MrTimCallanan/statu ... 60673?s=20[/url]

Aymann who was there relates
The people I managed to speak to didn’t seem to understand the gravity of what they had done. Inside a building they had broken into, they described themselves as “peaceful” to me. I talked to a kid from Florida, who must have been no more than 17 or 18. He told me, “This is nothing compared to what antifa does.” I said, “Look, they’re breaking the glass.” He answered, “Yeah, but at least they’re not destroying the things.” I showed him pictures of things destroyed. It didn’t register.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/01/capitol-riot-photos-inside-trump.html

Those guys break into a federal building such this one and are CONVINCED they are ... patriots ! So proud of them they were taking selfies :banghead:
I'd suggest a daily pledge of Allegiance doesn't seems enough to understand what is patriotism.
In order to be old and wise, one must first be young and dumb.
 
SYRAVGEEK
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:20 am

Trump: “Our journey is just begging”
He did condemn the violence and called for criminal charges against the terrorists. That begging part is worrying
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