Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

OA260 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:27 am

US Capitol: 'Outraged' Trump says those who broke the law will pay - and Biden will be sworn in on 20 January

http://news.sky.com/story/us-capitol-ou ... y-12181961

moo · Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:29 am

So Trump is back on Twitter with a address in which he actually comes across fairly well - very little of his normal bluster and accusations, toned down considerably and some emphasis on a transition now to the next administration (which he doesnt actually acknowledge is not his, but you can see the fine line hes treading in the entire video).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 44550?s=20

To me, this is the only time in the past 5 years that Trump has come across as Presidential in an address. Which proves that he can do it, when he wants to - or when hes backed into a corner.

luckyone · Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:37 am

moo wrote:
So Trump is back on Twitter with a address in which he actually comes across fairly well - very little of his normal bluster and accusations, toned down considerably and some emphasis on a transition now to the next administration (which he doesnt actually acknowledge is not his, but you can see the fine line hes treading in the entire video).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 44550?s=20

To me, this is the only time in the past 5 years that Trump has come across as Presidential in an address. Which proves that he can do it, when he wants to - or when hes backed into a corner.

Taped remarks with a demeanor that only took him being blamed for a riot in the US Capitol and lost the public support of several of his allies. But hey at least he said it. I wonder how many takes were required...

Francoflier · Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:52 am

lugie wrote:
This article presents an extremely concerning, but honestly not surprising to me if true, hypothesis as to how the Capitol Police (and DC law enforcement in general) got so easily overwhelmed yesterday.

Citing foreign intelligence analysts from NATO partner countries, this alleges that there must have been active marching orders against stopping the mob from entering the Capitol, which would make yesterday's events all part of a coordinated (if less-than-optimally planned) coup attempt - Trump riles his people up, co-conspirators in law enforcement do not stop them from entering the Capitol, and once inside they are to wreak havoc and put an end to the count of the legitimately cast EC votes.

From the article:
One NATO source set the stage, using terms more commonly used to describe unrest in developing countries.

"The defeated president gives a speech to a group of supporters where he tells them he was robbed of the election, denounces his own administration's members and party as traitors, and tells his supporters to storm the building where the voting is being held," the NATO intelligence official said.

"The supporters, many dressed in military attire and waving revolutionary-style flags, then storm the building where the federal law-enforcement agencies controlled by the current president do not establish a security cordon, and the protesters quickly overwhelm the last line of police.

"The president then makes a public statement to the supporters attacking the Capitol that he loves them but doesn't really tell them to stop," the official said. "Today I am briefing my government that we believe with a reasonable level of certainty that Donald Trump attempted a coup that failed when the system did not buckle.

This needs to be investigated and I would not be surprised if it, at least in parts, turned out to be true.

It's indeed not easy to understand how a group of loosely organized rioters managed to get inside what should be one of the most protected buildings in the country so easily... Especially since the authorities already knew about this march.

Klaus · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:04 am

moo wrote:
So Trump is back on Twitter with a address in which he actually comes across fairly well - very little of his normal bluster and accusations, toned down considerably and some emphasis on a transition now to the next administration (which he doesnt actually acknowledge is not his, but you can see the fine line hes treading in the entire video).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 44550?s=20

To me, this is the only time in the past 5 years that Trump has come across as Presidential in an address. Which proves that he can do it, when he wants to - or when hes backed into a corner.

He's just thrown all the people under the bus whom he had sent to the Capitol in his opening speech of the riot.

And of course he had told them that "I'll be with you" and he actually just watched them perpetrate his coup attempt from the safety of the White House, and now it's all their fault and he is "outraged" that they did exactly what he told them to.

Weak, corrupt, disloyal, malicious, cowardly and just plain dirty, and all that blatantly out in the open for all to see, but his supporters lap up the brown stuff and say it's chocolate.

Tugger · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:22 am

Francoflier wrote:
It's indeed not easy to understand how a group of loosely organized rioters managed to get inside what should be one of the most protected buildings in the country so easily... Especially since the authorities already knew about this march.

Umm, you do realize that normally the public is allowed to view the proceedings live, yes? COVID has changed things but the norm for the place is to let the public in.

https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan-vi ... ss-session

Tugg

moo · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:25 am

Klaus wrote:
moo wrote:
So Trump is back on Twitter with a address in which he actually comes across fairly well - very little of his normal bluster and accusations, toned down considerably and some emphasis on a transition now to the next administration (which he doesnt actually acknowledge is not his, but you can see the fine line hes treading in the entire video).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 44550?s=20

To me, this is the only time in the past 5 years that Trump has come across as Presidential in an address. Which proves that he can do it, when he wants to - or when hes backed into a corner.

He's just thrown all the people under the bus whom he had sent to the Capitol in his opening speech of the riot.

And of course he had told them that "I'll be with you" and he actually just watched them perpetrate his coup attempt from the safety of the White House, and now it's all their fault and he is "outraged" that they did exactly what he told them to.

Weak, corrupt, disloyal, malicious, cowardly and just plain dirty, and all that blatantly out in the open for all to see, but his supporters lap up the brown stuff and say it's chocolate.

Oh I completely agree, Im just saying in my post that this is the first time to me that hes actually come across in an address as Presidential rather than a raving freaking loon - if you took this video in isolation and out of context, he wouldn't look all that out of place next to Obama etc. Coherent speech, pretty conciliatory in tone, talks about moving forward etc.

Of course, its the context which flips all that on its head, as context is want to do.

alfa164 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:29 am

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
FGITD wrote:
I don't much care about traitors getting shot. Same reason I don't shed a tear for the confederacy.

They lost, both the Confederacy and the Trump Supporters.

Although the Cult of Trump did manage to accomplish one thing the Confederates, as hard as they tried, were never able to do: to get the "Stars and Bars" inside the Capitol.

It was a shameful display of sedition from these self-proclaimed "patriots".

moo wrote:
So Trump is back on Twitter with a address in which he actually comes across fairly well - very little of his normal bluster and accusations, toned down considerably and some emphasis on a transition now to the next administration (which he doesnt actually acknowledge is not his, but you can see the fine line hes treading in the entire video).
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 44550?s=20
To me, this is the only time in the past 5 years that Trump has come across as Presidential in an address. Which proves that he can do it, when he wants to - or when hes backed into a corner.

You know somebody else wrote all of that - and Melania probably threatened to leave him (and take all the money and secrets with her) if he didn't give it.

cpd · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:34 am

moo wrote:
Klaus wrote:
moo wrote:
So Trump is back on Twitter with a address in which he actually comes across fairly well - very little of his normal bluster and accusations, toned down considerably and some emphasis on a transition now to the next administration (which he doesnt actually acknowledge is not his, but you can see the fine line hes treading in the entire video).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 44550?s=20

To me, this is the only time in the past 5 years that Trump has come across as Presidential in an address. Which proves that he can do it, when he wants to - or when hes backed into a corner.

He's just thrown all the people under the bus whom he had sent to the Capitol in his opening speech of the riot.

And of course he had told them that "I'll be with you" and he actually just watched them perpetrate his coup attempt from the safety of the White House, and now it's all their fault and he is "outraged" that they did exactly what he told them to.

Weak, corrupt, disloyal, malicious, cowardly and just plain dirty, and all that blatantly out in the open for all to see, but his supporters lap up the brown stuff and say it's chocolate.

Oh I completely agree, Im just saying in my post that this is the first time to me that hes actually come across in an address as Presidential rather than a raving freaking loon - if you took this video in isolation and out of context, he wouldn't look all that out of place next to Obama etc. Coherent speech, pretty conciliatory in tone, talks about moving forward etc.

Of course, its the context which flips all that on its head, as context is want to do.

It’s totally false, the conciliatory tone is only because he realises the kind of huge trouble he is in. The real attitude is here:

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 5a4a1435de

The Trumps were celebrating the protestors. That comes from a right wing news source, so it cannot be called fake news.

DLFREEBIRD · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:35 am

Tugger wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
It's indeed not easy to understand how a group of loosely organized rioters managed to get inside what should be one of the most protected buildings in the country so easily... Especially since the authorities already knew about this march.

Umm, you do realize that normally the public is allowed to view the proceedings live, yes? COVID has changed things but the norm for the place is to let the public in.

https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan-vi ... ss-session

Tugg

This was a mob, swinging from the building as they climbed it, not a tour group there to watch congress in session. This was a security blunder just like 9/11. Everyone was warned but did nothing. They knew this group was violent, still a blind eye was turned.

DIRECTFLT · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:35 am

Let the firings begin until morale improves...

McConnell ousts Senate sergeant-at-arms after Capitol riots

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) forced out Senate Sergeant-at-Arms Michael Stenger one day after the Capitol was breached by rioters, the GOP leader announced on Thursday night.

“Today I requested and received the resignation of Michael Stenger, the Senate Sergeant at Arms and Doorkeeper, effective immediately," McConnell said in a statement.

Deputy Sergeant at Arms Jennifer Hemingway will become the acting SAA.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/533 ... itol-riots

They're getting the barn door closed now the cows have gotten out...

Klaus · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:44 am

moo wrote:
Oh I completely agree, Im just saying in my post that this is the first time to me that hes actually come across in an address as Presidential rather than a raving freaking loon - if you took this video in isolation and out of context, he wouldn't look all that out of place next to Obama etc. Coherent speech, pretty conciliatory in tone, talks about moving forward etc.

Yeah, if you had been in a coma for five years, for instance. But that's pretty much what it would take.

Of course, its the context which flips all that on its head, as context is want to do.

No, not like this one!

seb146 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:52 am

The Pentagon knew this was coming and did not do a goddamn thing

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/0 ... ton-455822

As opposed to when they knew BLM was planning a protest

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/polic ... index.html

We will keep bringing this up along with the armed traitors who stormed the Capital building with the support of their dear MAGA leader. They must be treated as traitors. Every last one of them. Including McConnell and Cruz and Junior and Ivanka and Eric and Hannity and Rush. Traitors.

seb146 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:54 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Let the firings begin until morale improves...

McConnell ousts Senate sergeant-at-arms after Capitol riots

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) forced out Senate Sergeant-at-Arms Michael Stenger one day after the Capitol was breached by rioters, the GOP leader announced on Thursday night.

“Today I requested and received the resignation of Michael Stenger, the Senate Sergeant at Arms and Doorkeeper, effective immediately," McConnell said in a statement.

Deputy Sergeant at Arms Jennifer Hemingway will become the acting SAA.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/533 ... itol-riots

They're getting the barn door closed now the cows have gotten out...

When does McConnell officially become the Minority Leader? I know it is a minor question at this point, but it is fair to ask.

Moose135 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:04 am

seb146 wrote:
When does McConnell officially become the Minority Leader? I know it is a minor question at this point, but it is fair to ask.

Probably not until January 20. The elections of the two newly elected Senators from Georgia still need to be certified (although both won by margins that preclude an automatic recount) so they haven't been seated yet. Once they are sworn in, it makes the Senate 50-50, and you will probably need to wait until Biden/Harris are sworn in so she can make a tie-breaking vote.

acavpics · Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:13 am

I heard that these MAGA rioters planned this and talked with eachother on platforms such as Gab, WeMe, and Parler. Is there any chance/way for these apps to be shut down?

ArcticSEA · Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:21 am

Betsy DeVos out as education secretary.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics ... index.html

moo · Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:21 am

acavpics wrote:
I heard that these MAGA rioters planned this and talked with eachother on platforms such as Gab, WeMe, and Parler. Is there any chance/way for these apps to be shut down?

Only if the Chinese buy them...

ArcticSEA · Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:22 am

The Department of Justice is looking at all actors, including the President of the United States, over incitement of riot.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics ... index.html

meecrob · Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:53 am

acavpics wrote:
I heard that these MAGA rioters planned this and talked with eachother on platforms such as Gab, WeMe, and Parler. Is there any chance/way for these apps to be shut down?

We are trying to preserve democracy, including free speech, so no, your idea is just as bad as the ideas of the people you are trying to silence.

acavpics · Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:59 am

meecrob wrote:
acavpics wrote:
I heard that these MAGA rioters planned this and talked with eachother on platforms such as Gab, WeMe, and Parler. Is there any chance/way for these apps to be shut down?

We are trying to preserve democracy, including free speech, so no, your idea is just as bad as the ideas of the people you are trying to silence.

Well these are the same platforms that mass shooters (Such as the 2018 Pittsburgh shooter) have openly expressed their threats and intent to carry out such acts. Why is it that ISIS/islamic terror chat websites get shut down in a heartbeat while these are still available for use?

cpd · Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:10 am

seb146 wrote:
The Pentagon knew this was coming and did not do a goddamn thing

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/0 ... ton-455822

As opposed to when they knew BLM was planning a protest

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/polic ... index.html

We will keep bringing this up along with the armed traitors who stormed the Capital building with the support of their dear MAGA leader. They must be treated as traitors. Every last one of them. Including McConnell and Cruz and Junior and Ivanka and Eric and Hannity and Rush. Traitors.

It’s good they did nothing, the right cannot claim that it’s a left wing conspiracy to destroy their rights.

casinterest · Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:16 am

It is amazing how Right wing pundits keep claiming Antifa was responsible.

How did Antifa get elected to GOP state offices?

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... d-protests

At least 6 GOP legislators took part in Trump-inspired protests
At least six Republican state legislators from across the nation participated in events surrounding the attempted insurrection at the United States Capitol on Wednesday.

News reports and social media posts showed at least one of the legislators, West Virginia Del. Derrick Evans (R), was among the violent mob that broke into the Capitol building. Evans, who was only recently sworn into office, posted a video of himself entering the building.

“We’re gong in,” he says in the video, in which he is wearing a helmet. He later deleted the post.

Klaus · Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:32 am

casinterest wrote:
It is amazing how Right wing pundits keep claiming Antifa was responsible.

They've got their own treasomn and sedition to cover up and divert from, so they're going big as they've always been used to.

luckyone · Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:51 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
Betsy DeVos out as education secretary.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics ... index.html

...“there is no mistaking the impact your rhetoric had” ...Guess she’s part of the Antifa Deep State, too.

But honestly, who is actually surprised about the bailouts? Jan 6 may have hastened the bail, but we all know that the GOP made a Faustian bargain with Trump—his biggest initial critics were established Republicans like Senator Graham or evening his own Elite Attorney Jenna Ellis. Those who never wanted anything to do with him to begin with, are going to take their shot to distance themselves. Someone like Trump, who doesn’t know how to take a hard knock or a stab in the back, should not be in politics.

AirframeAS · Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:17 am

ArcticSEA wrote:
Betsy DeVos out as education secretary.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics ... index.html

Thank the lord. I never really liked her from the start. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but this is the first GOOD thing she has done since assuming office!

ArcticSEA · Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:34 am

One of the Capitol police officers has now died from injuries sustained during the Trump supporters' riot.
https://twitter.com/pkcapitol/status/13 ... 7070572544

tommy1808 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:36 am

luckyone wrote:
moo wrote:
So Trump is back on Twitter with a address in which he actually comes across fairly well - very little of his normal bluster and accusations, toned down considerably and some emphasis on a transition now to the next administration (which he doesnt actually acknowledge is not his, but you can see the fine line hes treading in the entire video).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 44550?s=20

To me, this is the only time in the past 5 years that Trump has come across as Presidential in an address. Which proves that he can do it, when he wants to - or when hes backed into a corner.

Taped remarks with a demeanor that only took him being blamed for a riot in the US Capitol and lost the public support of several of his allies. But hey at least he said it. I wonder how many takes were required...

sounds like a hostage reading out the demands of his kidnappers.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:00 am

seb146 wrote:
The Pentagon knew this was coming and did not do a goddamn thing

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/0 ... ton-455822

As opposed to when they knew BLM was planning a protest

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/polic ... index.html

We will keep bringing this up along with the armed traitors who stormed the Capital building with the support of their dear MAGA leader. They must be treated as traitors. Every last one of them. Including McConnell and Cruz and Junior and Ivanka and Eric and Hannity and Rush. Traitors.

Add to that the Cops waving people into the capital:

https://streamable.com/veugm9

best regards
Thomas

AirframeAS · Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:03 am

tommy1808 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
moo wrote:
So Trump is back on Twitter with a address in which he actually comes across fairly well - very little of his normal bluster and accusations, toned down considerably and some emphasis on a transition now to the next administration (which he doesnt actually acknowledge is not his, but you can see the fine line hes treading in the entire video).

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 44550?s=20

To me, this is the only time in the past 5 years that Trump has come across as Presidential in an address. Which proves that he can do it, when he wants to - or when hes backed into a corner.

Taped remarks with a demeanor that only took him being blamed for a riot in the US Capitol and lost the public support of several of his allies. But hey at least he said it. I wonder how many takes were required...

sounds like a hostage reading out the demands of his kidnappers.

That is the impression I got as well. That does not look like his normal body language, at all. Something tells me that he was asked to make a statement by a very high ranking staffer, stay on cue and don't do or say anything stupid.....or else.... But he still did his normal spew anyway.

tommy1808 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:09 am

AirframeAS wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Taped remarks with a demeanor that only took him being blamed for a riot in the US Capitol and lost the public support of several of his allies. But hey at least he said it. I wonder how many takes were required...

sounds like a hostage reading out the demands of his kidnappers.

That is the impression I got as well. That does not look like his normal body language, at all. Something tells me that he was asked to make a statement by a very high ranking staffer, stay on cue and don't do or say anything stupid.....or else.... But he still did his normal spew anyway.

Makes one wonder how many takes that took...

best regards
Thomas

c933103 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:25 am

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
FGITD wrote:
I don't much care about traitors getting shot. Same reason I don't shed a tear for the confederacy.

They lost, both the Confederacy and the Trump Supporters.

Labelling half of rhe other country as traitor and use it as a reason to think the other side should not be protected by law, is why America seems to be falling apart.
Such idea exists in both the left and the right.

seahawk · Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:25 am

seb146 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
By your logic, the folks that flew the planes at 9/11 where not terrorists either. Only OBL for inciting them to do so. Besides, weren't the republicans always the party of personal responsibility?

I have to disagree, as OBL never had any form of legitimation. Trump on the other hand still is the president of the United States and to make matters worse quite a few leading figures of the Republican party have been repeating the same lies. This is not terrorism, this is a coup attempt.

OBL was legitimized. Look at all the people who hung on his every word and who he helped. Now, look at all the MAGA flags and the gun waving people who will do anything for their leader.

Legitimized by whom? He was president of which country and elected by whom? The goals are also totally different. OBL wanted to cause pain to the countries he hated, so that they act in a manner he expects. Trump acted in a way, so that his followers disturb the legitimate democratic process of the country he still is president of, so that his defeat in an legal election is reversed.

1. is terrorism
2. is a coup

tommy1808 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:27 am

c933103 wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
FGITD wrote:
I don't much care about traitors getting shot. Same reason I don't shed a tear for the confederacy.

They lost, both the Confederacy and the Trump Supporters.

Labelling half of rhe other country as traitor and use it as a reason to think the other side should not be protected by law, is why America seems to be falling apart.
Such idea exists in both the left and the right.

They are protected by law just like anybody else. Just that the law allows you to get shot if you join the revolution.

best regards
Thomas

64947 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:44 am

Tugger wrote:
tu204 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
China and Russia must be loving it.

Maybe not loving to say per se. I just don't see the regular individuals making statements in defence of "peaceful protesters" like when shit happens in other countries.

But importantly those people, even rioters, aren't beaten mercilessly, arrested without due process, nor do they become enemies of the state. They will face the consequences of their actions, legal and reputational of course (morons). But can you imagine what would have been done to them in Russia or China (actually you don't have to imagine)?

Tugg

I can't imagine them being mercilessly beaten and aggressively arrested in Russia like we see here in DC

Can't speak for China.

c933103 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:47 am

tommy1808 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
SYRAVGEEK wrote:
They lost, both the Confederacy and the Trump Supporters.

Labelling half of rhe other country as traitor and use it as a reason to think the other side should not be protected by law, is why America seems to be falling apart.
Such idea exists in both the left and the right.

They are protected by law just like anybody else. Just that the law allows you to get shot if you join the revolution.

best regards
Thomas

Indeed, but some comments above seems ro be trying to ignore the legality of the circumstances and make general statement

marcelh · Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:08 am

The inconvenient truth is that this happened because 70+ million people voted for Trump. Everyone knew he is an accident waiting to happen, but still they voted for him. You can’t blame “the unwashed” and Evangelicals for voting for him, but I can’t understand why decent and well educated people vote for a narcissist.

seahawk · Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:23 am

One has to mention the African-American policeman who was the first to confront the mob. He showed an amazing amount of restraint under the circumstances. He was chased, screamed at, threatened and still did retreat in an orderly fashion without killing rioters. This guy deserves a medal.

tommy1808 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:05 am

marcelh wrote:
The inconvenient truth is that this happened because 70+ million people voted for Trump. Everyone knew he is an accident waiting to happen, but still they voted for him. .

had only two Million people voted for him, they´d be out claiming 80 million votes were stolen.

seahawk wrote:
One has to mention the African-American policeman who was the first to confront the mob. He showed an amazing amount of restraint under the circumstances. He was chased, screamed at, threatened and still did retreat in an orderly fashion without killing rioters. This guy deserves a medal.

But Trump is busy giving medals to his Henchmen, oder fellow golfers...

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/donald ... al-freedom

I wonder if some previous recipients will return their medal of freedom, as they are now worthless.

best regards
Thomas

Francoflier · Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:14 am

marcelh wrote:
The inconvenient truth is that this happened because 70+ million people voted for Trump. Everyone knew he is an accident waiting to happen, but still they voted for him. You can’t blame “the unwashed” and Evangelicals for voting for him, but I can’t understand why decent and well educated people vote for a narcissist.

That's a fair point. Trump is only the symptom of an underlying disease.

It would only take someone with the same populistic nastiness for the rash to flare up again.
Fortunately for now, it seems only that moron Ted Cruz is trying to pick up the stinky torch from Trump and give it a go by stealing his base. That's the only reason he's decided to go all the way down with the flaming wreck.
Problem is, he has the charisma of a wet mop and no one likes him, not even the Trump base, who will remain loyal to their Messiah to the bitter end.

Otherwise, until education levels increase again in the US, one hopes that no one with this uncanny ability to rally the angry, clueless and hateful masses will come along soon... even if it doesn't fix the actual problem.

DLFREEBIRD · Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:15 am

seahawk wrote:
One has to mention the African-American policeman who was the first to confront the mob. He showed an amazing amount of restraint under the circumstances. He was chased, screamed at, threatened and still did retreat in an orderly fashion without killing rioters. This guy deserves a medal.

That was horrible to watch, the policeman running up the stairs, radio in hand asking for backup. Him turning around to see that this group was following him up the stairs and even encroaching upon him when he turned around. You knew they were, ready to kill him, if they got a opportunity. Timothy McVeigh wanna BE's, who cling to conspiracy theories that don't make any sense because there life revolves around far right media outlets.

marcelh · Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:16 am

tommy1808 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
The inconvenient truth is that this happened because 70+ million people voted for Trump. Everyone knew he is an accident waiting to happen, but still they voted for him. .

had only two Million people voted for him, they´d be out claiming 80 million votes were stolen.

I really don’t believe that. It’s just mind boggling that more than 70 million people voted for an autocratic person who did nothing more than spreading “alternative facts” and cheap electoral rhetoric. Sure, it will attract people (the Trumpists), but the more moderate Republicans went along with him as well.

94717 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:22 am

TheSonntag wrote:
"The whole point here is that one leader and also his party told their supporters that if they fail on the democratic way, they can always push through anyway by sheer force, disregarding what is true and disregarding any democratic rules.

That is massively corrosive to any democracy, and that only one half of the USA is still committed to democratic rules and principles while the other half is actively trying to tear down and destroy those is noted with horror from abroad as well."

True. The Weimar Republic in Germany in the 1920s was a democracy without democratic minds. Forces from the left and right fought against the system.

This is the real cancer.

It is totally ok to oppose Biden.
It is totally ok to believe people should not have Obamacare.
It is totally ok to fight before elections to get Trump reelected.
It is even ok to demand counting ballots revisited after the election, according to the legal provisions in place for the respective states.

But it is NOT OK to pretend you won when all legal proceedings have proven you have lost. Democracy is about fighting to get elected, yet it is also about accepting if you have lost. If you lose - try to win again at the next elections. But WITHIN the constitional means.

This is my reflection as well. USA is very close today to the Weimar republic.

It had a extreme left and extreme right. It is today easy only to remember the Extreme right coup in 1933 had a number of previous example with Munchen (extreme right) Hamburg (extreme left) etc, with more or more often less professional planned coups.

One big step on the way to dictator ship was the total lack of respect between left and right ending in the right wing coup 1933.

After 1933 the right wing even created the first concentration camp north of Berlin to handle the left wing opponents before race became a major reason to be sent to concentration camp.

flipdewaf · Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:46 am

tu204 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Maybe not loving to say per se. I just don't see the regular individuals making statements in defence of "peaceful protesters" like when shit happens in other countries.

But importantly those people, even rioters, aren't beaten mercilessly, arrested without due process, nor do they become enemies of the state. They will face the consequences of their actions, legal and reputational of course (morons). But can you imagine what would have been done to them in Russia or China (actually you don't have to imagine)?

Tugg

I can't imagine them being mercilessly beaten and aggressively arrested in Russia like we see here in DC

Can't speak for China.

Wouldn’t need to in Russia, pootin is more competent than Trump and has managed his coup more successfully. We know what happens to people who oppose putin, it involves novichok and disinformation campaigns.

Trump hasn’t got the wherewithal to do things like pootin and so has to rely on the less educated in society who are more likely to believe in sky daddies to do his bidding.

It’s always easier to get poeple to do what you want when you know they’ll unquestionably follow a man who was brought to earth after his dad raped a virgin so that he could be tortured to forgive the sins that he imposed on them because he made an apple that a magic rib woman ate after talking snake told her to... saying covid isn’t real seems fairly reasonable compared to that.

Fred

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NYCVIE · Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:02 am

marcelh wrote:
The inconvenient truth is that this happened because 70+ million people voted for Trump. Everyone knew he is an accident waiting to happen, but still they voted for him. You can’t blame “the unwashed” and Evangelicals for voting for him, but I can’t understand why decent and well educated people vote for a narcissist.

The REAL inconvenient truth is that all of this happened because the Republicans couldn't believe Obama legitimately became President with overwhelming support. So they became uber-partisan, invested in lying media machines, and doubled down on far-right extremism and exploitation of Middle America and here we are 12 years later. Honestly since the Iraq War, Republicans have actively embraced this idea that you're "anti-American" or that "you hate America" if you disagree with them and now the chickens have come home to roost. They've created a monster that even they can't control. Notice how in the modern Republican party if you have a core disagreement you're branded as a traitor and/or you simply need to leave the party.

JJJ · Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:16 am

marcelh wrote:
The inconvenient truth is that this happened because 70+ million people voted for Trump. Everyone knew he is an accident waiting to happen, but still they voted for him. You can’t blame “the unwashed” and Evangelicals for voting for him, but I can’t understand why decent and well educated people vote for a narcissist.

Because sticking it up to the libs was more important than anything else.

Of course it's way more nuanced than that and it took longer than just Trump, but ultimately it's down to populism legitimating itself inside the two-party system instead of sitting at the fringe and exploiting the cracks in the established blocks.

Lots of Weimar Republic vibes there.

WIederling · Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:23 am

Francoflier wrote:
It's indeed not easy to understand how a group of loosely organized rioters managed to get inside what should be one of the most protected buildings in the country so easily... Especially since the authorities already knew about this march.

Wait a couple of years ( month?) and you'll know which PR agency organized the heist.
( who invented "Buffalo Man"? )
Access must have been made easy by inside help.
( something similar in Berlin: where AfD MdB's seem to have enabled the entry of trespassers
into the Reichstagsbuilding and some vandalizing around non AfD offices later twirling thumbs "we are innocent" )

NIKV69 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:31 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

That was horrible to watch, the policeman running up the stairs, radio in hand asking for backup. Him turning around to see that this group was following him up the stairs and even encroaching upon him when he turned around. You knew they were, ready to kill him, if they got a opportunity. Timothy McVeigh wanna BE's, who cling to conspiracy theories that don't make any sense because there life revolves around far right media outlets.

The whole response was tough to watch from a security standpoint. From refusing help from other agencies to how they were just allowed to mill around after. It was so surreal. I would have expected paddy wagons and mass arrests.

WIederling · Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:41 am

olle wrote:
One big step on the way to dictator ship was the total lack of respect between left and right ending in the right wing coup 1933.
.

Hitler was appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg( after majority capable candidates had been frustrated in intractable indecission).
Governing was done via the equivalent of "presidential orders".
Power foundation was the tacit approval of the miilitary and administration ( still rooted strongly in the Kaiserreich.)
Late twenties, early thirties the tool was the paramilitary SA that worked "no holds barred" against all competing political groups.
perfectly organized, high up military backing.

What can be observed is that any (democratic) system can be broken by one party that no longer works inside "loyal opposition" constraints. And that is a process that does not happen over night to everybodies surprise.
It has been long in the coming and the process has floated many an interested parties boat on the way.

L410Turbolet · Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:45 am

JJJ wrote:
cpd wrote:
. The damage he has done is enormous.

Putin, Xi, Kim, etc. are rubbing their hands in pure glee.

...as is the case in Berlin, Paris and Brussels.

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