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JJJ
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:06 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
JJJ wrote:
cpd wrote:
. The damage he has done is enormous.


Putin, Xi, Kim, etc. are rubbing their hands in pure glee.

...as is the case in Berlin, Paris and Brussels.


That was when the election results were announced.

This is more like embarrassment or, in millennial terms, cringe.
 
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CARST
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:13 am

JJJ wrote:
cpd wrote:
. The damage he has done is enormous.


Putin, Xi, Kim, etc. are rubbing their hands in pure glee.


I think people like Putin, Xi and Kim had great four years. All of them. They knew there was a guy in the White House, in the position where usually the leader of the "Free World" resides, who was not up to the task. They knew he was corrupt and that there was no real danger to them. The only downside was that Trump was so unpredictable, because he acted on insticts and didn't follow a set in stone doctrine. But otherwise, Putin, Xi and Kim are now stronger than ever before. Especially Putin and Xi used the last four years to eliminate any opposing persons and organisations within their countries and also took more control of regions and countries surrounding their own states.

And while followers of Trump love to repeat their puppet master's conspiracy theories about Biden being in China's hand, the reality looks different. All these countries, these dictatorships, are not looking forward at all to a change in the US presidency. They will have to deal with someone again who folllows a clear agenda, a known doctrine. Someone who works their the allies of the US within NATO and other organisations. Someone who doesn't want the best deal for himself, but who works on the basis of principles.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:21 am

CARST wrote:
JJJ wrote:
cpd wrote:
. The damage he has done is enormous.


Putin, Xi, Kim, etc. are rubbing their hands in pure glee.


I think people like Putin, Xi and Kim had great four years. All of them. They knew there was a guy in the White House, in the position where usually the leader of the "Free World" resides, who was not up to the task. They knew he was corrupt and that there was no real danger to them. The only downside was that Trump was so unpredictable, because he acted on insticts and didn't follow a set in stone doctrine. But otherwise, Putin, Xi and Kim are now stronger than ever before. Especially Putin and Xi used the last four years to eliminate any opposing persons and organisations within their countries and also took more control of regions and countries surrounding their own states.

And while followers of Trump love to repeat their puppet master's conspiracy theories about Biden being in China's hand, the reality looks different. All these countries, these dictatorships, are not looking forward at all to a change in the US presidency. They will have to deal with someone again who folllows a clear agenda, a known doctrine. Someone who works their the allies of the US within NATO and other organisations. Someone who doesn't want the best deal for himself, but who works on the basis of principles.


It is a huge long term effect. All nations with close ties to the USA have learned that they can not bet on the USA being reliable all the time. Suddenly the risk of being thrown under the bus by a new administration is real and will remain real with the current GOP. So it is better to not damage your relations with Xi or Putin too much, because the USA might turn on you.
 
GDB
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:22 am

It is quite obvious that Trump was forced to make that sorry, pleading address, most likely Pence and/or others close to him threatened to 25th Amendment him.
He's also been a bullying coward, much like his dumb cult.
Always, his entire life, he's got saps to do his dirty work prior to throwing them under the bus.
Not that this should limit any charges against anyone involved, all the half baked excuses and apologists cannot bend reality.

The other take away from this being that for all the superpower military and a level of militarized police unknown in any other Western nation, the US has shown a massive gap in basic security and intel, at least this time the reasons are clear, they don't 'see' threats from non brown people, domestic (in this case nothing to see), or as in 2001, foreign.
And that's baked in, as Trumps attempt at the neo Confederacy has shown.
 
art
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:58 am

Klaus wrote:
He's just thrown all the people under the bus whom he had sent to the Capitol in his opening speech of the riot.

And of course he had told them that "I'll be with you" and he actually just watched them perpetrate his coup attempt from the safety of the White House, and now it's all their fault and he is "outraged" that they did exactly what he told them to.


Any chance that the people who idolise him will now reconsider their support for him? I imagine that some of the people he urged to go to the Capitol will be charged and will end up in jail. I don't see how his followers will be able to reconcile following his exhortations with being condemned by him.

I wonder how many will be charged and for how long they will be incarcerated. I read that one of the security officers at the Capitol has succumbed to injuries received during the invasion of the Capitol.
 
M564038
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:07 am

While I agree on the Weimar comparison, and the analysis of the silent enablers of the republican party seemingly not understanding the gravity of the fire they are playing with, it takes a very special leader to make this a full-blown right wing authoritarian state. Hitler was one. Trump is not one.

I don't think Trump's moral compass is any better than Hitler's, I think they care(d) about equally much wether other people lived or died, prospered or suffered, other people is just antagonists or enablers in their worlds. But Trumps does not have the strenght, charisma or intelligence to take it to the heights Hitler took it. He is also too old.

When Trump announced his candidacy for President, the Media went ballistic. They gave him all the attention he needed to build a campaign. Had they left him in the shadow as other fringe candidates the world would have looked very different today. The Trump phenomenon is on them. They laughed of him in the beginning, and he played them like a fiddle.

Let's hope they react differently when America's true Hitler gets on the scene.
Just 3 days ago, almost half of Georgia still voted republican after all the obvious republican madness.
The US is incredibly vulnerable for a fascist take-over once the right leader turns up, if it is not met in a completely different way than Trump.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:09 am

Right-wing "media" is trying to pin this on "antifa" so I'm sure millions will jump on that bandwagon too, after all most of them weren't in DC, and what's one more conspiracy theory to them ?
 
petertenthije
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:28 am

M564038 wrote:
But Trumps does not have the strenght, charisma or intelligence to take it to the heights Hitler took it.
After everything he did, he still got 70 million votes. So yes, he does have charisma and strength. You and I may not see it, but 70 million people did see it.

But you are right on this, it's scary to think what would happen if someone stood up that's charismatic to both sides of the aisle.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:34 am

That support is enough to take over to be honest. Hitler had more support because times were very tough and he launched plenty of popular programs, FDR was popular too. Trump's saving grace is two-fold : he's old and his brain is mush, and he wasn't very smart even in his hayday.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:51 am

Aesma wrote:
That support is enough to take over to be honest. Hitler had more support because times were very tough and he launched plenty of popular programs, FDR was popular too. Trump's saving grace is two-fold : he's old and his brain is mush, and he wasn't very smart even in his hayday.


Did Hitler have much more support? The highest percentage of votes the NSDAP scored in an election before Hitler rose to power was 37%, the last election before Hitler was in power saw the NSDAP at 33%. Current polls show that about 45% of the GOP voters do support the storming of the capitol, while about the same percentage does not. Which means that every place where the GOP scores 66% or higher is seeing a support for the storming of the capitol equal to the best election results of Hitler.
 
cpd
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:52 am

Aesma wrote:
Right-wing "media" is trying to pin this on "antifa" so I'm sure millions will jump on that bandwagon too, after all most of them weren't in DC, and what's one more conspiracy theory to them ?


Here is another “Antifa” apparently:

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 836c799d40

Flying on a Piaggio Avanti to get to the attack. She deleted her post. Too late now.
 
M564038
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:59 am

But Hitler’s support was smaller than Trumps.
There were a lot more political parties to choose from in Germany, while in the US, the polarization has made half the voters de-facto fascists because of the 2-party system. Hitler’s political base was smaller. Once he got into power and got all the attention, however, he was a much stronger leader than Trump, opposed by weaker institutions.

Do not believe for a second that the Trump voters, not only his base, could not be led into, and feveriously defend and commit cruelty on behalf of a totalitarian US.
They would eventually be joined by the most short-sighted and pragmatic people on the left-center too, that is something that has been seen in those regimes over ad over again. Germany, Spain, Portugal, Soviet, China.

Trump thankfully just wasn’t capable of it, and the institutions where (for the time being) too strong.

How to solve it?
Hope and fingers crossed for the short- to mid-term.
Long term: Strenghtening education, free higher education, free health care, higher minimum wages, stronger unions and worker’s rights, maternity and paternity leave:

This making the average, or rather the typical american feel thet are worth something, that they have social mobility, that their lives, welfare and health actually counts more than their financial or insurance status, have the freedom that social security and welfare means for normal people.

This is what stabilizes a democratic country and sets people free.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:23 pm

M564038 wrote:
But Hitler’s support was smaller than Trumps.
There were a lot more political parties to choose from in Germany, while in the US, the polarization has made half the voters de-facto fascists because of the 2-party system. Hitler’s political base was smaller. Once he got into power and got all the attention, however, he was a much stronger leader than Trump, opposed by weaker institutions.
Having a two party system is both a blessing and a curse in this case.

It's a curse, because it led to radicalization, which in turn led to Trump.

But it is also a blessing, because Trump was facing a united opposition.

Germany's multi-party system meant that once the NSDAP gained sufficient critical mass, Hitler could play the opposition parties out against each other. Trump meanwhile might have been able to pursuade a few individual democrat senators and representatives, but had no chance at all to break the opposition entirely. At least not while still paying lip service to the law.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:36 pm

In 2000, we had the most contested Presidential elections in our history. It came down to less than 1000 votes in one state and a pair of terrible decisions of the US Supreme court. There were protests, but neither Bush or Gore encouraged riots or attacks on the government or courts. With some minor exceptions there were noisy but non-violent protests. I was in DC the afternoons and early evenings of the Supreme Court hearings for work (and for the av side of things, I took the flying shuttles LGA-DCA-LGA). The protesters were calm, outnumbered by TV news crews and their vans from numerous cities and countries. They were calm, reasoned and the loser, then VP Al Gore and his supporters like me accepted the defeat. 20 years later we see in Trump someone who cannot accept defeat and set off one of the worst riots in DC since the 1960's and for months encouraged violence in state governments and their leaders over attempts to control the Covid-19 pandemic (now murdering closer to 4,000 a day).

Trump rose to power using his perverse abilities to sell garbage like it was gold. He took on issues that attracted 10's of millions of White voters, like the decades long polices of allowing illegal immigration and the loss of too many once decent paying jobs to China and Mexico, He used racist code words and promoted that 'he' was the only one 'who could fix things' to gain more support. Sadly Hillary Clinton was a terrible campaigner, use terms like 'deplorables' that deeply insulted Trump supporters, had a bad history with her husband of allegations of corruption and husband Bill's sexual abuses, despite Trump's own horrible and perverse sexual behaviors, massive abuses of law as a 'businessman'. Biden and Harris have serious flaws too, but they will respect the law and hopefully lead us to a much calmer time and deal with our many problems we need to deal with.
 
agill
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:51 pm

Aesma wrote:
Right-wing "media" is trying to pin this on "antifa" so I'm sure millions will jump on that bandwagon too, after all most of them weren't in DC, and what's one more conspiracy theory to them ?


And it has been the most ridiculous attempts. Like the "Ohhh he's got a hammer and sickle on his hand", and the actual picture has the outsiders mark from dishonored. No matter if you know about that game or not, it's pretty obvious that it's no hammer and sickle.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:01 pm

Having a glance at Parler is like a trip to Crazytown. Hundreds of racist comments on Elaine Chao’s resignation, accusing her of being in the CCP’s pocket, telling her to go back to China etc. These bumpkins don’t even know Taiwan is our ally and they fought a 22-year civil war against Red China. What the hell is going on in red state education??
 
WIederling
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:05 pm

M564038 wrote:
But Hitler’s support was smaller than Trumps.
There were a lot more political parties to choose from in Germany, while in the US, the polarization has made half the voters de-facto fascists because of the 2-party system. Hitler’s political base was smaller. Once he got into power and got all the attention, however, he was a much stronger leader than Trump, opposed by


Moot.
Hitler got power via the "Notstandsgesetze". comparable to governing by presidential order.
The next step was "Gleichschaltung". muting all dissenting voices in institutions all around.
NSDAP democratic weight in the Reichstag was less relevant.

Gleichschaltung: You see similar operations in the US: in a wide range of national institutions
GOP partisan decision frameworks have been introduced. weaponizing "everything".
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:28 pm

I can see how things are going to go. The horrible events of January the 6th which both sides agreed were horrible, are being taken by advantage by the Democrats and now raising the race tensions by saying how police was better with the Trump supporters than with BLM, that's despite a Pro-Trump white unarmed woman being killed by police.

The temptation of identity politics is just too high for Democrats. This was a great opportunity to unite the country for Biden/Harris, but its all about race.

If we keep tearing the country apart, by the fringes either by inflaming race tensions, inflaming crazy conspiracy theories, we will be certainly be headed to bigger problems than what we saw in Summer 2020 or January 6th. That goes both ways, the left and right, we need to unite and find things in common to make this union worthwhile for all.
 
SYRAVGEEK
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:30 pm

marcelh wrote:
The inconvenient truth is that this happened because 70+ million people voted for Trump. Everyone knew he is an accident waiting to happen, but still they voted for him. You can’t blame “the unwashed” and Evangelicals for voting for him, but I can’t understand why decent and well educated people vote for a narcissist.

Whenever a country seems to no longer be as powerful as people think, they tend to vote for more nationalist people (Thatcher, Regan, Trump, etc). I think that’s what happened
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:31 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I can see how things are going to go. The horrible events of January the 6th which both sides agreed were horrible, are being taken by advantage by the Democrats and now raising the race tensions by saying how police was better with the Trump supporters than with BLM, that's despite a Pro-Trump white unarmed woman being killed by police.

The temptation of identity politics is just too high for Democrats. This was a great opportunity to unite the country for Biden/Harris, but its all about race.

If we keep tearing the country apart, by the fringes either by inflaming race tensions, inflaming crazy conspiracy theories, we will be certainly be headed to bigger problems than what we saw in Summer 2020 or January 6th. That goes both ways, the left and right, we need to unite and find things in common to make this union worthwhile for all.


Great - maybe you can get on Parler and tell some of these fools that Taiwan is our ally and Elaine Chao did not serve the Trump WH as a Chinese spy.
 
SYRAVGEEK
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:36 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I can see how things are going to go. The horrible events of January the 6th which both sides agreed were horrible, are being taken by advantage by the Democrats and now raising the race tensions by saying how police was better with the Trump supporters than with BLM, that's despite a Pro-Trump white unarmed woman being killed by police

Unfortunately (for you) there’s a difference between throwing a brick at a Starbucks and storming the Capital while Congress is in session. There was a difference in response, just because one person (who had it coming, pro tip: don’t storm the capital under false pretenses) gets shot. Meanwhile people in BLM were getting put in unmarked vans and driven to god knows where, stop saying your opponents bias outweighs your own.
 
art
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:36 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Having a two party system is both a blessing and a curse in this case.

It's a curse, because it led to radicalization, which in turn led to Trump.

But it is also a blessing, because Trump was facing a united opposition.


I don't quite follow you. United opposition? There are only 2 parties of any size in the US Congress.They did not unite to oppose Trump.

My view is that a two party system is a bad system. It enables one party to dictate its ideas for the duration of its tenure, however unaccetable some of those ideas may be to a very large minority of the electorate, in this instance nearly half the electorate, A much better system im my opinion is one in which the largest party needs to procure the agreement of other parliamentary representatives (or at least, their abstention in the votes concerned) in order to pass legislation.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:42 pm

petertenthije wrote:
It's a curse, because it led to radicalization, which in turn led to Trump.

But it is also a blessing, because Trump was facing a united opposition.


I what possible scenario would Trump not have faced a united opposition? He stood for pretty much everything the entire left wing is opposed to. Even many of the republicans would have opposed him if they had an alternative.
Last edited by VSMUT on Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:43 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I can see how things are going to go. The horrible events of January the 6th which both sides agreed were horrible, are being taken by advantage by the Democrats and now raising the race tensions by saying how police was better with the Trump supporters than with BLM, that's despite a Pro-Trump white unarmed woman being killed by police.

The temptation of identity politics is just too high for Democrats. This was a great opportunity to unite the country for Biden/Harris, but its all about race.

If we keep tearing the country apart, by the fringes either by inflaming race tensions, inflaming crazy conspiracy theories, we will be certainly be headed to bigger problems than what we saw in Summer 2020 or January 6th. That goes both ways, the left and right, we need to unite and find things in common to make this union worthwhile for all.


Great, so let’s make a start...

Condemn the violence and mob rule we saw on Wednesday (you said it should be condemned, but you didn’t actually do it).
Is Joe Biden your president from 20th Jan?
Do you believe the democrats “stole” the election?
Do you believe all the lunatic conspiracy theories that seem to thrive among Trump supporters?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:47 pm

art wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
Having a two party system is both a blessing and a curse in this case.

It's a curse, because it led to radicalization, which in turn led to Trump.

But it is also a blessing, because Trump was facing a united opposition.


I don't quite follow you. United opposition? There are only 2 parties of any size in the US Congress.They did not unite to oppose Trump.

My view is that a two party system is a bad system. It enables one party to dictate its ideas for the duration of its tenure, however unaccetable some of those ideas may be to a very large minority of the electorate, in this instance nearly half the electorate, A much better system im my opinion is one in which the largest party needs to procure the agreement of other parliamentary representatives (or at least, their abstention in the votes concerned) in order to pass legislation.


And it makes switching parties harder. Say you are a conservative and unhappy with the GOP but the Democrats have moved further to the left, you can not simply vote for another conservative party. It ia totally binary choice. So in the end it is often a single issue decision when one party promises something that you either definitely do or do not want, you are forced to accept all the other ideas they have. Trump´s election was a perfect example. If you did not want Hillary (which is imho understandable in 2016) you had to vote for Trump. In the end you can have the day when the basic choice is Stalin vs. Hitler, especially if the radicals take more and more control of the big parties.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:52 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
I can see how things are going to go. The horrible events of January the 6th which both sides agreed were horrible, are being taken by advantage by the Democrats and now raising the race tensions by saying how police was better with the Trump supporters than with BLM, that's despite a Pro-Trump white unarmed woman being killed by police.

The temptation of identity politics is just too high for Democrats. This was a great opportunity to unite the country for Biden/Harris, but its all about race.

If we keep tearing the country apart, by the fringes either by inflaming race tensions, inflaming crazy conspiracy theories, we will be certainly be headed to bigger problems than what we saw in Summer 2020 or January 6th. That goes both ways, the left and right, we need to unite and find things in common to make this union worthwhile for all.


Great - maybe you can get on Parler and tell some of these fools that Taiwan is our ally and Elaine Chao did not serve the Trump WH as a Chinese spy.


Funny how he forgets to mention the circumstances in which the "Pro-Trump white unarmed woman" was shot. She wasn´t running away from cops, she wasn´t a random pick in a traffic stop triggering an itchy trigger finger while reaching for her ID, or a case of mistaken identity, or a case of breaching the wrong place based on questionable warrants or what not.. she was, after already having committed crimes, trying to breach a door well inside the Capitol with drawn guns pointed at her. Heck, given that she saw all that, she almost definitely didn´t expect to be shot at. She expected to have White Privilege, and all the shock is about her being the only one not getting it.

best regards
Thomas
 
GDB
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:54 pm

SYRAVGEEK wrote:
marcelh wrote:
The inconvenient truth is that this happened because 70+ million people voted for Trump. Everyone knew he is an accident waiting to happen, but still they voted for him. You can’t blame “the unwashed” and Evangelicals for voting for him, but I can’t understand why decent and well educated people vote for a narcissist.

Whenever a country seems to no longer be as powerful as people think, they tend to vote for more nationalist people (Thatcher, Regan, Trump, etc). I think that’s what happened


While I am no fan of either Thatcher nor Reagan, I would not put them anywhere near Trump.
Reagan was at the start at least, ill informed, with some very fixed views, not a vile person like Trump, his sunny personality, however infused with his actor's training, was essentially him, he was not a 'hater'.

Thatcher was actually not that popular as Opposition Leader until a range of strike action in 1978/9 really pushed the public over the edge, later though she would describe the PM she beat in 1979, Labour Leader Jim Callaghan, despite her opposing domestic political views, as a 'great Patriot'. Can you imagine Trump saying that?
Neither were 'nationalists', which I take to read as more about hating other countries, whereas being just Patriotic is liking your own.

They could also do the job, granted later in Reagan's second term that became an issue for reasons that became apparent later, Trump's been a useless S.O.B. all his life but supported by his Father's money and later the clown show of 'Reality TV'.
No 'Apprentice' on TV and in the 2000's, for most of the US, he is an obscure figure from the 80's and 90's not well known beyond NY, where most of the voters hate him.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:30 pm

Aesma wrote:
Right-wing "media" is trying to pin this on "antifa" so I'm sure millions will jump on that bandwagon too, after all most of them weren't in DC, and what's one more conspiracy theory to them ?


I am all for the Right Wing Media doing this. It will make the lawsuits more costly from the officers and the families of those that were injured/killed in the melee. My strongest hope is that when they charge the Trump cult members for murder and assault of the police officers, they sue the hell out of Fox News/Newsmax/Parlar/Sinclair/OANN for pushing forth the lies and narratives .
 
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scbriml
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:03 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Having a glance at Parler is like a trip to Crazytown.


I haven't gone there, but I can imagine.

I thought Breitbart and OANN were bad enough, but then I read more and more Trumpstremists complaining that Fox, Breitbart and OANN weren't right-wing enough and they were all jumping ship and heading off to TGP and Parler. I read some of the comments on TGP and I wonder about the state of the mental health of some of those posters.

I have to say I find it kind of ironic that the "free speech, American patriot" crowd chose a French word for the name of their site.
 
luckyone
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:17 pm

scbriml wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Having a glance at Parler is like a trip to Crazytown.


I haven't gone there, but I can imagine.

I thought Breitbart and OANN were bad enough, but then I read more and more Trumpstremists complaining that Fox, Breitbart and OANN weren't right-wing enough and they were all jumping ship and heading off to TGP and Parler. I read some of the comments on TGP and I wonder about the state of the mental health of some of those posters.

I have to say I find it kind of ironic that the "free speech, American patriot" crowd chose a French word for the name of their site.

The irony will be lost on most of the followers. If there were to be identified a "problem" with free speech and free press, that would be it. There will always be a group of loons who will be prone to conspiracy, confirmation bias, and radical acts. I don't think this is a new problem, it's just taking on a new medium. This is not a complete list, just off the top of my head: look at the OKC Bombing (Timothy McVeigh found a home in right wing conspiracy circles that instead of Twitter or Parler met at gun shows and circulated literature such as The Turner Diaries), Ruby Ridge (religious fundamentalists who were holding out on a mountain top for Armageddon, that got mixed up in far right petty crime, nobody should have died, my point only is that their message existed regardless of the medium), Robert J Matthews, Waco, Heavens Gate (not violent, but 39 people did die), Eric Rudolph, and most obviously 9/11. All of these were major events that didn't need social media, the message spread because of the people involved. In the absence of restricted speech, they'll find a way to disseminate their information.

I think it's also easy to have a short memory. The US is not alone with this problem, think IRA, RAF, Action directe, GRAPO, FP-25,17N, the Narita protests, Front de libération du Québec , Westland New Post, the multiple attacks in France the last few years, etc etc.
 
skyservice_330
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:20 pm

A few things that jump out...

- If you are going to brawl/brutalize police, and trespass and vandalize a federal building, you would think they would wear masks. The internet is now in overdrive to pour over all the Youtube, Facebook and Twitter content these people posted to show off their shenanigans. They are about to learn, the hard way, the power of the internet and their lives are likely going to become very uncomfortable.

- Scary to think that this wasn't just some impromptu event - Trump signaled the event would be 'wild' in a December Tweet, and attendees had t-shirts made. This was a planned attempt to disrupt the democratic process by those who didn't get the result they liked - not some 'heat of the moment' action by some bad actors.

- The number of Nazi's that found comfort or a welcoming in the crowd is alarming - the photos of those wearing Auschwitz t-shirts or '6 million wasn't enough' t-shirts were chilling.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 4170
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:22 pm

Well trump has said he isn’t attending the inauguration. I think personally that he should be forced to be there, not only because it would be funny to see him squirm as the keys to the power are handed to Joe but also as a means of protection against his whack job followers. The new president is much safer from attack by the racists if the man baby is close by and within dangers way.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:23 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I can see how things are going to go. The horrible events of January the 6th which both sides agreed were horrible, are being taken by advantage by the Democrats and now raising the race tensions by saying how police was better with the Trump supporters than with BLM, that's despite a Pro-Trump white unarmed woman being killed by police.

The temptation of identity politics is just too high for Democrats. This was a great opportunity to unite the country for Biden/Harris, but its all about race.

If we keep tearing the country apart, by the fringes either by inflaming race tensions, inflaming crazy conspiracy theories, we will be certainly be headed to bigger problems than what we saw in Summer 2020 or January 6th. That goes both ways, the left and right, we need to unite and find things in common to make this union worthwhile for all.


This is a misrepresentation of the discussion - the discussion has focused on the response from Capitol police to protests and the difference in approach between Jan 6th and other protests - plural. People have referenced BLM protests, but also the health care protests as well, and others.
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:26 pm

Just saw the news - a Capitol Police Officer has died from injuries sustained at the hands of the Trump supporters that undertook the siege.

RIP

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/capitol ... d=75124131
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:31 pm

For my friends south of the 49th - Is there any concern or public commentary, in the US, about other Trump supporter cells 'activating' similar domestic terror acts in other parts of the USA following their siege and attempted coup? I would think every state legislature would be reviewing their security plans.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13836
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:38 pm

skyservice_330 wrote:
For my friends south of the 49th - Is there any concern or public commentary, in the US, about other Trump supporter cells 'activating' similar domestic terror acts in other parts of the USA following their siege and attempted coup? I would think every state legislature would be reviewing their security plans.



you have to remember. A great deal of the GOP supported the shredding of the US constitution that took place Wednesday, before and after , the riots. Some state legislators from the GOP encouraged and took part in the riots. There is a lot of house cleaning going on.
 
SYRAVGEEK
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:04 pm

skyservice_330 wrote:
For my friends south of the 49th - Is there any concern or public commentary, in the US, about other Trump supporter cells 'activating' similar domestic terror acts in other parts of the USA following their siege and attempted coup? I would think every state legislature would be reviewing their security plans.

Probably, although the FBI is now trying to track them down.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14402
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:27 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I can see how things are going to go. The horrible events of January the 6th which both sides agreed were horrible, are being taken by advantage by the Democrats and now raising the race tensions by saying how police was better with the Trump supporters than with BLM, that's despite a Pro-Trump white unarmed woman being killed by police.

The temptation of identity politics is just too high for Democrats. This was a great opportunity to unite the country for Biden/Harris, but its all about race.

If we keep tearing the country apart, by the fringes either by inflaming race tensions, inflaming crazy conspiracy theories, we will be certainly be headed to bigger problems than what we saw in Summer 2020 or January 6th. That goes both ways, the left and right, we need to unite and find things in common to make this union worthwhile for all.


Identity politics are a huge tactic for the Democratic party. They govern using fear and the MSM. I actually think Biden wanted to give unity a chance but that was squashed quickly. We saw how they are going to govern yesterday when Biden and Harris gave a horrible divisive speech. I hate to break it to you but even before this they had no intention of working with the republicans. Until Pelosi, Schumer and other people like Harris are not calling the shots nothing of any substance will get done. We will see a good stimulus because we need it desperately but after that sadly it will be gridlock.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10043
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:29 pm

skyservice_330 wrote:
For my friends south of the 49th - Is there any concern or public commentary, in the US, about other Trump supporter cells 'activating' similar domestic terror acts in other parts of the USA following their siege and attempted coup? I would think every state legislature would be reviewing their security plans.


Biden ( and/or his Vice Harris ) now have increased exposure to getting asssinated. All the mad hatters have been primed for action.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4018
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:32 pm

Apparently some of the more vocal Trump internet personalities are now turning on him. What's the old saying? Something about dogs and fleas...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/0 ... ump-456490
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11341
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:46 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
I can see how things are going to go. The horrible events of January the 6th which both sides agreed were horrible, are being taken by advantage by the Democrats and now raising the race tensions by saying how police was better with the Trump supporters than with BLM, that's despite a Pro-Trump white unarmed woman being killed by police.

The temptation of identity politics is just too high for Democrats. This was a great opportunity to unite the country for Biden/Harris, but its all about race.

If we keep tearing the country apart, by the fringes either by inflaming race tensions, inflaming crazy conspiracy theories, we will be certainly be headed to bigger problems than what we saw in Summer 2020 or January 6th. That goes both ways, the left and right, we need to unite and find things in common to make this union worthwhile for all.


Identity politics are a huge tactic for the Democratic party. They govern using fear and the MSM. I actually think Biden wanted to give unity a chance but that was squashed quickly. We saw how they are going to govern yesterday when Biden and Harris gave a horrible divisive speech. I hate to break it to you but even before this they had no intention of working with the republicans. Until Pelosi, Schumer and other people like Harris are not calling the shots nothing of any substance will get done. We will see a good stimulus because we need it desperately but after that sadly it will be gridlock.

I just keep being amazed at your blindness and utter inability to actually look at what you and "the side you favor" are doing that creates this situation. You can ONLY blame others and do not accept fault. Can't you just say and admit that "identity politics" are also a huge tactic for the Republican party as well? You seem to think that "identity" applies only to people of color or "gay" or women. You don't see white, Christian, "conventional male female roles" as "identity". You ignore the call to arms and the feeding of lies of stolen election and "others are coming to start trouble (BLM supporters etc.) in your town and you must be ready!" that is also going out via the media. That this media message they spew is the definition of using fear to control, to incite people.

Why can you not speak to that?

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9909
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:46 pm

Biden ( and/or his Vice Harris ) now have increased exposure to getting asssinated. All the mad hatters have been primed for action.


This is an occupational hazard of any President/VP-Elect and Sitting President/VP. This is not anything new.
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 8048
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 5:58 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
What chance Trump does not show up on the 20th for the handover, or refuses to shake hands? :hissyfit:

Well looks like I called that one right.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13836
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:04 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

Identity politics are a huge tactic for the Democratic party. They govern using fear and the MSM. I actually think Biden wanted to give unity a chance but that was squashed quickly. We saw how they are going to govern yesterday when Biden and Harris gave a horrible divisive speech. I hate to break it to you but even before this they had no intention of working with the republicans. Until Pelosi, Schumer and other people like Harris are not calling the shots nothing of any substance will get done. We will see a good stimulus because we need it desperately but after that sadly it will be gridlock.


Socialism is a lie and uses fear and is the tactic of the GOP. The GOP just uses dishonorable liars and media personalities that enjoy outright lying and gaslighting for money. They blame others for isuses. No Personal responsibility at all for the GOP. Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Fox News, OAN, Rush Limbaugh, Radio, they all use lies to sell out this country to people too uneducated to think for themselves. your attacks against people that have NOT been calling the shots shows just how brainwashed the Trump Cult has become.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9909
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:05 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
What chance Trump does not show up on the 20th for the handover, or refuses to shake hands? :hissyfit:

Well looks like I called that one right.


He is not the first U.S. President to not show up at a successor's inauguration.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13836
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:06 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
What chance Trump does not show up on the 20th for the handover, or refuses to shake hands? :hissyfit:

Well looks like I called that one right.


He is not the first U.S. President to not show up at a successor's inauguration.



But he is the latest dishonorable liar not to show up. Poor little classless snowflake,
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:22 pm

Reddit is now the latest tech company to push back on the behavior of Trump supporters that are calling for violence / inciting violence on their platform

Reddit Bans ‘r/donaldtrump’ Subreddit
Reddit has banned the Trump-backing subreddit r/donaldtrump for inciting violence, in the latest crackdown against Trump and his supporters on social media after some of those supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Thursday.
.
.
.
Trump and his supporters have faced unprecedented backlash from tech companies after the insurrection attempt at the Capitol on Wednesday, which was organized well in advance by Trump-backing circles online. Trump himself was banned from Twitter after rioters made their way into the Capitol on Wednesday, before being allowed back on the platform on Wednesday. Trump’s Facebook and Instagram accounts have also been shut down for at least the next two weeks. Snapchat and Twitch have also disabled accounts from the president, while platforms like YouTube, TikTok and Shopify have also taken action against Trump.


Link https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2021/01/08/reddit-bans-rdonaldtrump-subreddit/
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 8048
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Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:24 pm

The day will probably be so much finer for his absence. A fresh start we hope.
 
vrbarreto
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:22 am

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:26 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
What chance Trump does not show up on the 20th for the handover, or refuses to shake hands? :hissyfit:

Well looks like I called that one right.


He is not the first U.S. President to not show up at a successor's inauguration.


Well he can join Nixon in recent history.. Both being in disgrace being a common theme..
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9909
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

Re: Pro-Trump Riot in US Capital Building

Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:33 pm

vrbarreto wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Well looks like I called that one right.


He is not the first U.S. President to not show up at a successor's inauguration.


Well he can join Nixon in recent history.. Both being in disgrace being a common theme..


Other U.S Presidents who did not attend to their successor's inauguration as follows: John Adams, John Quincy Adams, and as well as Andrew Johnson. And I realize you said "recent history". However, I wanted to show and point out to others that this is not the first time regardless of circumstance.

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